God's God

[Kutless]

Eph 2:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ............

JUst looking for some feedback on this passage. My trinitarian friend just tossed it out there. Whatch'yall say?

[A_PoMo]

Does your friend say it refers to the Father?

[Kutless]

Does your friend say it refers to the Father?he just simply asked "Who is that, the God of God" Per the wording of the verse.

[Falla39]

Eph. 1:17

[Kutless]

Eph. 1:17exactly thanks for the correction

[Falla39]

Ephesians 1:17 (King James Version)

17.That the God (Deity,Spirt) of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give

unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him:


My late father always taught us to read a few verses before and after the verse
you are looking at, to get a better idea of what is being said. Context.

Falla39

[TRFrance]

Eph 1:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ............

JUst looking for some feedback on this passage. My trinitarian friend just tossed it out there. Whatch'yall say?

Your Trinitarian friend probably doesn't realize that is a killer Oneness scripture, when understood correctly. Even many Oneness folks don't see the power in that scripture, and the concept behind it.

(The key is that Trinity is founded on not teaching the doctrine of the begotten son, but of an eternally preexistent Son, not taught in scripture.)

Undeniably, Jesus is God, as the bible makes very plain. But the Trinitarian formulation has major flaws in it, partly because of the [pagan influenced, and philosophically influenced] triune mold and mindset that many tried to fit God into, during the period of time the Trinity doctrine was being developed.

The concept here is fairly simple actually:

If Jesus was eternally preexistent with God, (and we know God never changes ..Mal 3:6), then the 2nd person of the Godhead would not ever refer to the 1st person as his God, neither would the Apostle Paul or any of the NT writers do so... because in the "Trinity" they are all equal and alway have been.

For example we see that:
*Paul repeatedly refers to the God of our Lord Jesus Christ (such as in Eph 1:17, Eph 1:3, ).

* Jesus referred to the father as "My God" (Rev 3:12)
* John also referred to the Father as "His God" (i.e Jesus' God) in Rev 1:6

* The prophet speaking to Christ calls the Father "your god" (i.e. Jesus' God) in Psalm 45:7/Hebrews 1:9

* In Mark 13:32 Jesus refers to his limited knowledge as the Son of God, when he says the Son doesn't know the day of His coming , but only the Father does. ..."But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father." ...
(This would make no sense if Jesus was simply the incarnation of the preexistent 2nd person of the Godhead, since God does not change. His omniscience would be part of His nature at all times!)

These scriptures are not problem at all with with Oneness theology -- in fact, they fit perfectly-- but are hugely contradictory against the Trinity doctrine. These scriptures support the teaching Jesus was the created Son, not the eternally preexistent son. He was born as the fleshly incarnation, and image of God, and has always been subservient to and subject to the Father.
This is why we can say that at Jesus baptism we didn't see 3 eternal persons, but had the eternal Father speaking of his Son, i.e. the begotten Son (the image of God/ & incarnation of "the Word").

That is why Jesus (both before and after his death & resurrection) would refer to the Father as "my God", while of course the Father would never refer to the Son as "my God" at any time.

It is with this understanding that Paul refers to the Father as "the God of Jesus Christ", (Eph 1:3, 17, 2 Cor 1:3, Col 1:3), The whole concept of the NT even speaking of a "God of Jesus Christ" blows the Trinity doctrine right off its foundations.

[Joelel]

Eph 2:17 That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ............

JUst looking for some feedback on this passage. My trinitarian friend just tossed it out there. Whatch'yall say?

The Spirit of God is the God of his word that was made flesh.These two are one.

John1: 1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2: The same was in the beginning with God.

14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth

Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood
Please note ONLY the word of God was made flesh and blood.The Spirit of God was IN the flesh.

1 Cor.5:19: To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation

When Jesus died only the Son or flesh or the word of God died.The Spirit of God didn't die.The Spirit of God the Father raised the Son or his word the flesh from the dead.

Acts3:[26] Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities

Rom.8:[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you