Pastor Resigns?

[bishoph]

I just recieved a call that the Pastor (PC Jr)of Groveport, OH has resigned. Can anyone verify if this is true or just another rumor from the rumor mill. If so this is the second good sized church to be looking for a pastor in the Columbus, OH area.

[Elizabeth]

Sorry can't help ya!

[tv1a]

Both churches are 20 minutes apart...

I just recieved a call that the Pastor (PC Jr)of Groveport, OH has resigned. Can anyone verify if this is true or just another rumor from the rumor mill. If so this is the second good sized church to be looking for a pastor in the Columbus, OH area.

[Sam]

I just recieved a call that the Pastor (PC Jr)of Groveport, OH has resigned. Can anyone verify if this is true or just another rumor from the rumor mill. If so this is the second good sized church to be looking for a pastor in the Columbus, OH area.

Speaking of UPC churches in Columbus, OH ----
has anything been resolved in that mess?
http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/contentbe/EPIC_shim.php?story=243697

[bkstokes]

Speaking of UPC churches in Columbus, OH ----
has anything been resolved in that mess?
http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/contentbe/EPIC_shim.php?story=243697

Wow Jim

I just read this article and it really defames giving.

[Sister Alvear]

sad...

[TalkLady]

Speaking of UPC churches in Columbus, OH ----
has anything been resolved in that mess?
http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/contentbe/EPIC_shim.php?story=243697

Bro, nothing would surprise me anymore. After what I've experienced the past few years (especially the last year), absolutely no amount of corruption and dishonesty by so called preachers would surprise me. I've always been so gullible and trusting - almost downright naive. Lately I watch where I put my money very carefully (more so than in the past). I haven't given up. God is able to restore and I pray for those who have mislead and deceived others. God will judge. There will be a final time when all things are known and the intentions of the hearts will be revealed. Thank God for the honest and for those who are worthy of their hire. We can't judge all ministers by the few. That's what the world does and I don't want to be lumped into not having confidence in God or in the ministry. (Can you tell I am healing a little?)....haha.

[freeatlast]

WoW the lat line in that article about the Dad calling the church, children of the devil if they prosecuted his son.

makes ya wanna try to slap someone sensible.

[Sister Alvear]

money has been the downfall of many a person...

[A_PoMo]

I wonder how this affected the people in that church? I'm sure their trust in men of God took a real hit.

This sort of thing happened out here in Cali a few years back when one of this brother's brethren did something similar. I had friends who came from this church and it hurt them deeply.

[ReformedDave]

money has been the downfall of many a person...

Isn't that the LOVE of money?

[freeatlast]

Now there's a testimony against centralized control of a
church by a single person.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely as they say.
This verbage "children of the devil", perhaps would better apply
to this man's son who abscounded the church's funds.
The church ought to confiscate the pastor's home because of his
dishonest dealings to partially recover some of their financial loss.
The district needs to revoke this man's license and headquarters
should barr him from ever pastoring in the organization ever again.
That's my verdict.

Where is this church's board of trustees?
Where is the system of checks and balances?
If there's that much money floating around, there needs to be
accountability. That is the minimum that the church board owes
to their congregation.
Perhaps they can be held dilitary in their own duty of safeguarding
the assets of this congregation.
I certainly hope the board has Director's & Officer's Liability Insurance.
They may end up needing it before the dust settles if they are called
in by attorneys to give account of their absence allowing the wolf to
guard the sheep (so to speak).

[Sam]

...
The district needs to revoke this man's license and headquarters
should barr him from ever pastoring in the organization ever again.
That's my verdict.

Where is this church's board of trustees?
Where is the system of checks and balances?
...


The pastor's father who stepped in and then encouraged the congregation to "forgive" their pastor is a respected leader in the Ohio District. This goes pretty high into the political structure of the organization. I don't know how they can pull his license.

I don't know how the church is/was set up so I don't know about the trustees but if I remember correctly, this pastor forged someone's signature so it looks like trustees were unaware of what was going on.

There was one court action. If I remember correctly, the congregation took the pastor to court for not following the church's bylaws. The court threw that out because it was considered an internal dispute within the church. That makes sense to me. There should have been criminal charges filed against the pastor but that couldn't come until after a civil investigation and I would imagine that would be something pretty low on the local government's "to do" list.

[TRFrance]

Where is this church's board of trustees?
Where is the system of checks and balances?
If there's that much money floating around, there needs to be
accountability. That is the minimum that the church board owes
to their congregation.
Perhaps they can be held dilitary in their own duty of safeguarding
the assets of this congregation.
I certainly hope the board has Director's & Officer's Liability Insurance.
They may end up needing it before the dust settles if they are called
in by attorneys to give account of their absence allowing the wolf to
guard the sheep (so to speak).

Frankly, I feel like every church should have its books audited by an outside accounting firm once a year, which should report their findings to the board, and the board should make these findings available to the church at an annual meeting.

That is true accountability.

I think anything less just leaves the door of possible temptation open to a a pastor or other church staff who have access to church funds. Failure to do so can lead to:
-the loss of money that belongs to God and His Kingdom,
- the inability of the church to fund evangelistic or missions programs (leading to potential souls not being reached)
- distrust of the church by church members who end up falling away as a result
-a poor reputation in the community, which prevents other lost souls from coming anywhere near that church (or any church).
I know in my church we have a strict safeguards in place when it comes to the handling of church finances ---our Pastor doesn't even have a key to the safe (and he likes it that way!).

Its not enough just so say "we trust the man of God". There must be a culture of accountability established in the church, so the church body feels confident that their hard earned donations are being handled honestly and responsibly.

I would love to get some further thoughts and input on this from some of the Pastors out there.

[Sam]

Frankly, I feel like every church should have its books audited by an outside accounting firm once a year, which should report their findings to the board, and the board should make these findings available to the church at an annual meeting.

That is true accountability.

I think anything less just leaves the door of possible temptation open to a a pastor or other church staff who have access to church funds. Failure to do so can lead to:
-the loss of money that belongs to God and His Kingdom,
- the inability of the church to fund evangelistic or missions programs (leading to potential souls not being reached)
- distrust of the church by church members who end up falling away as a result
-a poor reputation in the community, which prevents other lost souls from coming anywhere near that church (or any church).
I know in my church we have a strict safeguards in place when it comes to the handling of church finances ---our Pastor doesn't even have a key to the safe (and he likes it that way!).

Its not enough just so say "we trust the man of God". There must be a culture of accountability established in the church, so the church body feels confident that their hard earned donations are being handled honestly and responsibly.

I would love to get some further thoughts and input on this from some of the Pastors out there.

Well, that sure won't fly with those who believe the tithe is the pastor's and he is unaccountable to everyone but God for how he handles that money.

[TRFrance]

Well, that sure won't fly with those who believe the tithe is the pastor's and he is unaccountable to everyone but God for how he handles that money.

I guess it all begins with that initial mindset: Is the money in the church accounts the church's property or the Pastor's?

Once we establish that is it the church's property, there should be a mindset of accountability on the church staff and board. Pastors come and go, but the church will be there (hopefully) till Jesus comes.

Also If the treasurer, church secretary, and/or other possible money-handlers are all just the Pastor's relatives, that is also a problem. There have to be individuals who are not related to the pastor, and who take the job of financial accountability seriously. There should be at least 1 or 2 people in a position there who has basic business-related qualifications, such as being an accountant, an MBA, someone having several years of book-keeping experience, or something.

A true man of God would not/should not object to there being solid oversight of the church's finances. Its good for both him and the church.

[bishoph]

Friends,
While I do not in any way advocate the abuse of power from pastors or church leaders, I think that this story has been presented from a one-sided viewpoint, and is derived from a news source which is inherently biased towards religious institutions in general.

It is my understanding that In this particular case, said pastor did not act independently, (the board of the church was involved and approved the "investment") nor did his father say the quoted statement in the context that the paper has issued it. This pastor with the involvement and approval of the board, had made an investment in an energy program that was presented to many churches as a fundraising plan with incredible returns on the investments promised. I don't know of any church/ministry that doesn't need more funds to accomplish the vision of the local assembly and the great commission of the church in general. It should be noted that the board was involved and the church was informed, it was not until the deal went sower that some members decided to destroy the man that they had supported.

IMHO the pastor did not abuse his "power" but did make a very serious error in judgment even with the involvement of the board. The father BTW is no longer involved in the leadership of the district, as he is retired and lives in another state. He simply came in to bring stability to a church that respected him as the former pastor. His remarks were dealing with those who were trying to destroy a man who was being depicted as a crook who acted alone for his own personal benefit which was not the case.

We must always remember there are at least two sides to every story, and the truth is seldom what the media would have us to believe, when it comes to churches.

[AUTHORgio]

I just recieved a call that the Pastor (PC Jr)of Groveport, OH has resigned. Can anyone verify if this is true or just another rumor from the rumor mill. If so this is the second good sized church to be looking for a pastor in the Columbus, OH area.

Yes, Groveport is available. I know this because we received a call to try out for it, but we didn't feel to go to Ohio.

[CC1]

Friends,
While I do not in any way advocate the abuse of power from pastors or church leaders, I think that this story has been presented from a one-sided viewpoint, and is derived from a news source which is inherently biased towards religious institutions in general.

It is my understanding that In this particular case, said pastor did not act independently, (the board of the church was involved and approved the "investment") nor did his father say the quoted statement in the context that the paper has issued it. This pastor with the involvement and approval of the board, had made an investment in an energy program that was presented to many churches as a fundraising plan with incredible returns on the investments promised. I don't know of any church/ministry that doesn't need more funds to accomplish the vision of the local assembly and the great commission of the church in general. It should be noted that the board was involved and the church was informed, it was not until the deal went sower that some members decided to destroy the man that they had supported.

IMHO the pastor did not abuse his "power" but did make a very serious error in judgment even with the involvement of the board. The father BTW is no longer involved in the leadership of the district, as he is retired and lives in another state. He simply came in to bring stability to a church that respected him as the former pastor. His remarks were dealing with those who were trying to destroy a man who was being depicted as a crook who acted alone for his own personal benefit which was not the case.

We must always remember there are at least two sides to every story, and the truth is seldom what the media would have us to believe, when it comes to churches.


The two sides to this story seem pretty clear cut. Either the pastor did or did not forge someones signature. He either did or did not make that investment and obtain the second mortgage with the boards approval.

Those seem pretty easy to prove or disprove. The entire church board should know whether they agree to those two things or not.

[Jehoram]

Ethics is something we want everybody else to have.

[TRFrance]

The two sides to this story seem pretty clear cut. Either the pastor did or did not forge someones signature. He either did or did not make that investment and obtain the second mortgage with the boards approval.

Those seem pretty easy to prove or disprove. The entire church board should know whether they agree to those two things or not.

BishopH... since you seem to have some knowledge of the situation, do you know the answer those 2 particular questions...?

1.. Did the pastor forge someone's signature, as has been alleged ?
2.. Did he take out a 2nd mortgage without the board's approval?

[bishoph]

BishopH... since you seem to have some knowledge of the situation, do you know the answer those 2 particular questions...?

1.. Did the pastor forge someone's signature, as has been alleged ?
2.. Did he take out a 2nd mortgage without the board's approval?

I cannot answer either question definitively, however, it is my understanding that the second mortgage was with their approval. MOW may be able to give a more definitive answer if he feels at liberty to do so as I think he may have stated that he is helping them (the church in question) as they move forward.

[tv1a]

Good call. There are more church politics in that area than @ headquarters.

Any mention where PC is heading?

My former church is also looking for a new pastor. Their pastor is starting a church in the Cleveland area. Must be something in the water in Section III...

Yes, Groveport is available. I know this because we received a call to try out for it, but we didn't feel to go to Ohio.

[SOUNWORTHY]

I cannot answer either question definitively, however, it is my understanding that the second mortgage was with their approval. MOW may be able to give a more definitive answer if he feels at liberty to do so as I think he may have stated that he is helping them (the church in question) as they move forward.

I'm glad I read all the posts and got your answer. When I read the news paper article I wondered how accurate it might be. I'm glad God delivered me from pastoring. Sometimes a pastor can do absolutely nothing right. My wife's first husband (he is deceased) was almost destroyed by a disgruntled church board and feuding families in the church. This web site can be very dangerous if someone posts something that is not true or if someone doesn't follow all the posts.

[SOUNWORTHY]

We need to pray for all the pastors in the world. The stronger the pastor the more it's open season for the devil. I don't envy any pastor their job. My pastor is a fantastic young man I've known him since he was born and I'm very impressed the way he has turned out.

[jaxfam6]

The state of Ohio and not just the UPCI but all the organizations there as well as the independents have always had problems. Rather it be mishandling of funds, adultry, or just plain control freaks. How do I know? I grew up there, father pastored there, brother and several cousins pastored there. Still have family there. There is certainly something about that area. Guess what though? It is not just Ohio. I've been in AZ, FL, LA, TX and they all have problems. If it isn't one thing it is another.
I get tired of people using pastors or other church members as an excuse not to serve God. If you knew half of what I knew or even been through half of what I have been through you would wonder why I still go to church and serve God, if you follow most peoples thinking.
You make a choice to serve God. Get your eyes off the creation and on the creator. Wrong is wrong and those that do wrong will answer one day for it. If not in our time then certainly in God's time. Does the wrong doer have to answer for causing someone to lose out with God? Yes I believe they will but the one who leaves also has a price to pay.
Isn't there a saying about "what doesn't kill us only makes us stronger"? Secular saying or not it is still very true in the spirit relm also.
We really need to pray for our leadership, rather AAFCJ, ALJC, PAW, UPCI, and the list can go on.

[Sam]

The state of Ohio and not just the UPCI but all the organizations there as well as the independents have always had problems. Rather it be mishandling of funds, adultry, or just plain control freaks. How do I know? I grew up there, father pastored there, brother and several cousins pastored there. Still have family there.
...


some questions regarding the UPC in Newark
1. Is there a sign in a room where preparations for baptisms takes place that tell what to say when someone is baptize?
2. What does the sign or notice tell the baptizer to say as he baptizes?
3. If you don't know or don't want to say, that's OK.

[jaxfam6]

some questions regarding the UPC in Newark
1. Is there a sign in a room where preparations for baptisms takes place that tell what to say when someone is baptize?
2. What does the sign or notice tell the baptizer to say as he baptizes?
3. If you don't know or don't want to say, that's OK.

Are you speaking in reference to the UPC church on 23rd St in Newark Oh? The City of Newark and surrounding area you would think was half a million or more people. There are more UPC and ALJC churches in that little area of the world than in Phoenix AZ I think.

I am not sure if there is or not but I know someone who may. I still have family that goes there.

[Sam]

Are you speaking in reference to the UPC church on 23rd St in Newark Oh? The City of Newark and surrounding area you would think was half a million or more people. There are more UPC and ALJC churches in that little area of the world than in Phoenix AZ I think.

I am not sure if there is or not but I know someone who may. I still have family that goes there.

I didn't realize there were that many OP churches in that area.
When I think of Newark, I remember there were about 3 ALJC churches in that general area and the pastors all had the last name of Smith. That was 30 years ago. Guy Smith was in Zanesville. I don't remember who and where the other two were. The only UPC church I knew about in Newark was the one Bro. Dyer pastored. I think his daughter married Ron Newstrand and Bro. Newstrand was pastor for a while.

The reason I asked was because I had read somewhere that there was a UPC church in Newark, Ohio that had a sign in a room where a person who was going to do the baptizing would see it. Allegedly, the sign directed that the person doing the baptizing should say, "In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost." I was just wondering if someone could confirm that or if it was just rumor.

[jaxfam6]

I didn't realize there were that many OP churches in that area.
When I think of Newark, I remember there were about 3 ALJC churches in that general area and the pastors all had the last name of Smith. That was 30 years ago. Guy Smith was in Zanesville. I don't remember who and where the other two were. The only UPC church I knew about in Newark was the one Bro. Dyer pastored. I think his daughter married Ron Newstrand and Bro. Newstrand was pastor for a while.

The reason I asked was because I had read somewhere that there was a UPC church in Newark, Ohio that had a sign in a room where a person who was going to do the baptizing would see it. Allegedly, the sign directed that the person doing the baptizing should say, "In the name of the Lord Jesus Christ I baptize you in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost." I was just wondering if someone could confirm that or if it was just rumor.

My cousin is looking into it for me. You are correct about the pastor of that church and Lois Dyer did marry Ron Newstrand and they did pastor there for years. Now it is the Sjostrand's who are there. I did not always agree with Newstrand but I can not see that being the case. I know my cousins well and if they baptized and used father, son, and holy ghost even adding in Jesus name they were not going to stay. That would have be a rumor I am sure. My sisters and brothers were all baptized and received the Holy Ghost under Bro Dyer and I know that was not the form he used.

ALJC there was Bro Charles Smith, Gene Waters, Bro Wilson and another in Newark. The surrounding area had another 2 ALJC another 2 UPCI, and at least 12 independant oneness churches. None of them got along with one another. go figure

My father started out in the country between Newark and Zanesville and drew from both areas.