View Full Version : Why are SOME UPCers so set on defending it at any cost?
* Why are some folks so set on defending the org at any cost even if means being wrong? Why do they feel they must be vanguards of a man-made institution?
* Why can't some step back and examine issues without trepidation or fear that they may deemed blasphemous?
* Why do some beat the drum of a man made org and forget there is a larger Body?
Don't they have anything better to do with their time?
I mean didn't Paul and Peter get into it ?
Weren't there issues of contention? See Acts 15.
Just curious....
COOPER
03-15-2007, 09:34 AM
* Why are some folks so set on defending the org at any cost even if means being wrong? Why do they feel they must be vanguards of a man-made institution?
* Why can't some step back and examine issues without trepidation or fear that they may deemed blasphemous?
* Why do some beat the drum of a man made org and forget there is a larger Body?
Don't they have anything better to do with their time?
I mean didn't Paul and Peter get into it ?
Weren't there issues of contention? See Acts 15.
Just curious....
:nothingtoadd
J-Roc
03-15-2007, 09:59 AM
Because it's their.....
http://home.earthlink.net/~theoson/GOLD-OX.jpg
BoredOutOfMyMind
03-15-2007, 10:05 AM
Wow!
The Holy Trinity of UPC Bashing in one thread.
Wow!
The Holy Trinity of UPC Bashing in one thread.
Care to join ... we're serving HAM.
Wow!
The Holy Trinity of UPC Bashing in one thread.
Axis of Evil?
Wow!
The Holy Trinity of UPC Bashing in one thread.
Uh-holy alliance?
Wow!
The Holy Trinity of UPC Bashing in one thread.
3 guys and a pizza place?
COOPER
03-15-2007, 10:15 AM
Care to join ... we're serving HAM.
Oh my Word!!!:slaphappy
http://www.musicaccord.net/jcooper/images/photos/lVtJjtGX.jpg
I wonder just how many threads about the UPC can be started in a day? :dunno
No, make that an HOUR...........
COOPER
03-15-2007, 10:17 AM
3 guys and a pizza place?
You make it.......hurt ......so good!
Fweeerdy!
http://www.musicaccord.net/jcooper/images/photos/WfOgzYbg.jpg
Coonskinner
03-15-2007, 10:17 AM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v325/JohnCarroll/stupid_post_bear.jpg
Pressing-On
03-15-2007, 10:20 AM
* Why are some folks so set on defending the org at any cost even if means being wrong? Why do they feel they must be vanguards of a man-made institution?
* Why can't some step back and examine issues without trepidation or fear that they may deemed blasphemous?
* Why do some beat the drum of a man made org and forget there is a larger Body?
Don't they have anything better to do with their time?
I mean didn't Paul and Peter get into it ?
Weren't there issues of contention? See Acts 15.
Just curious....
In the same frame as:
Not ALL men are gay
Not ALL men wear toupees
J-Roc
03-15-2007, 10:21 AM
Well look who has joined us....CS3PO...the programmable robot.
http://starwars.fidm.edu/extrafeatures/images/extra-c3po.jpg
Well look who has joined us....CS3PO
http://starwars.fidm.edu/extrafeatures/images/extra-c3po.jpg
"I'm NOT PROGRAMMED to do that ...""
J-Roc
03-15-2007, 10:26 AM
"I'm NOT PROGRAMMED to do that ...""
Then maybe it's hypnosis...
http://www.gewusstwie.mut.de/25658digifoto/images/hypnosis.JPG
Starbucks
03-15-2007, 10:44 AM
Well I see that this IS NCFC reincarnated. I'm not UPC but this thread is definately over the line, especially with some of the posts and comments in this thread. Off color isn't what I'd call it, that is being politically correct.
Admin please Delete my account.
My name is Cooper and you do not have permission to shorten it.:happydance
Hey Coop ... leave CS3PO ... alone .... I'm not finished with him yet :happydance :happydance :happydance
http://respiracreative.com/cs2.jpg
BoredOutOfMyMind
03-15-2007, 10:46 AM
Before I ban some of you-
It is advised you go back and edit some posts!
We do not allow personal snipes or Attacks on the ministry.
PERIOD.
If they are still here later, I am going to assign some bans.
:tiphat
Before I ban some of you-
It is advised you go back and edit some posts!
We do not allow personal snipes or Attacks on the ministry.
PERIOD.
If they are still here later, I am going to assign some bans.
:tiphat
I'd allow maybe 5 minutes to make edits...but I don't have much patience for stuff like this. :D So I guess it's a good thing you are handling this one. :D
TRIPLE E
03-15-2007, 12:18 PM
Care to join ... we're serving HAM.
I can't believe you said that!
BoredOutOfMyMind
03-15-2007, 12:28 PM
I can't believe you said that!
Mr Alicea and J-Roc decided that they were above a request in bold type and size 7 font to edit their photos and comments.
They are banned for seven days.
We do not tolerate bashing others and we do not allow bashing preachers.
No one is going to admit it or confess it but there are a lot of hurt, angry and bitter people towards UPC that go way back . their lashing out is unresolved hurt.
I'm not pointing my finger in Judgment as I too have had some Bad feelings arise towards organization but once I realized it MEN in the organization NOT the Organization itself I no longer made such broad sweeping judgments
Malvaro
03-15-2007, 12:38 PM
No one is going to admit it or confess it but there are a lot of hurt, angry and bitter people towards UPC that go way back . their lashing out is unresolved hurt.
I'm not pointing my finger in Judgment as I too have had some Bad feelings arise towards organization but once I realized it MEN in the organization NOT the Organization itself I no longer made such broad sweeping judgments
They are welcome to discuss/declare their hurts.... while being civil about it....
Daniel A and J-Roc took it a bit overboard....
Kutless
03-15-2007, 01:12 PM
They are welcome to discuss/declare their hurts.... while being civil about it....
Daniel A and J-Roc took it a bit overboard....I hope they return I will miss them.
* Why are some folks so set on defending the org at any cost even if means being wrong? Why do they feel they must be vanguards of a man-made institution?
* Why can't some step back and examine issues without trepidation or fear that they may deemed blasphemous?
* Why do some beat the drum of a man made org and forget there is a larger Body?
Don't they have anything better to do with their time?
I mean didn't Paul and Peter get into it ?
Weren't there issues of contention? See Acts 15.
Just curious....
My real thought are the connections....
If they are pastors and have to leave their congregation where will they go?
If they have a small church will they be able to substain and survive?
If they evangelize who do they call?
It is out of fear of the unknown that many feel the need to connect.
The men who have left started relationships before they broke away...
Just my thoughts.....
No one is going to admit it or confess it but there are a lot of hurt, angry and bitter people towards UPC that go way back . their lashing out is unresolved hurt.
I'm not pointing my finger in Judgment as I too have had some Bad feelings arise towards organization but once I realized it MEN in the organization NOT the Organization itself I no longer made such broad sweeping judgments
Not everyone has a beaten down attitude nor they have been hurt etc.
Many of the men who have left the UPCI or will leave shortly.
Have no problem with many of their friends in the organization.
They have not been hurt nor do they care...
All they want it the leading of the spirtit and the freedom to pursue the call of God.
The hurts usually develope once men who stay in the organization tear those apart for leaving....
Praxeas
03-15-2007, 02:57 PM
I can be one of the UPCs biggest critics....but I look for constructiveness. There is nothing to defend, but there is nothing to destroy either. There is some things that need to change.
That's the problem with some folks...they either just don't realize it or they do realize it but hide it...that what they are doing is NOT in the interest of fixing something, but is really in the interest of damaging more.
Praxeas
03-15-2007, 02:58 PM
Not everyone has a beaten down attitude nor they have been hurt etc.
Many of the men who have left the UPCI or will leave shortly.
Have no problem with many of their friends in the organization.
They have not been hurt nor do they care...
All they want it the leading of the spirtit and the freedom to pursue the call of God.
The hurts usually develope once men who stay in the organization tear those apart for leaving....
Or the other way around as it seems to be.......
Or the other way around as it seems to be.......
Praxes I agree that is a problem as well. What I call I am free docrine. That does nothing to help anyone as well.
You made a good point.
COOPER
03-15-2007, 03:55 PM
[QUOTE=Neckstadt;42131]Not everyone has a beaten down attitude nor they have been hurt etc.
Many of the men who have left the UPCI or will leave shortly.
Have no problem with many of their friends in the organization.
They have not been hurt nor do they care...
All they want it the leading of the spirtit and the freedom to pursue the call of God.
The hurts usually develope once men who stay in the organization tear those apart for leaving....QUOTE]
thats exactly right.
I am more uptight about UPC since I have left and the junk I have been told
for staying away.
Now I am a rebel, off color in my spirit, upc basher, hater, sowing dis-cord etc.
But if you meet in person at a UPC service I will not gripe and complain about the UPC.
But If we sit down and talk openly I will discuss how I feel about the UPC.
98 percent of my gripes about UPC are done on-line.
But I am glad some UPC ministers are hearing and reading what people think.
Forum's are a good thing, when it comes to talking about issues.
I know 15-20 years ago, if this forum was up and running; UPC would forbid chatting here.
I thought coop was banned?
COOPER
03-15-2007, 03:58 PM
I thought coop was banned?
I obeyed and deleted my post.
Praxeas
03-15-2007, 04:05 PM
thats exactly right.
I am more uptight about UPC since I have left and the junk I have been told
for staying away.
Now I am a rebel, off color in my spirit, upc basher, hater, sowing dis-cord etc.
But if you meet in person at a UPC service I will not gripe and complain about the UPC.
But If we sit down and talk openly I will discuss how I feel about the UPC.
98 percent of my gripes about UPC are done on-line.
But I am glad some UPC ministers are hearing and reading what people think.
Forum's are a good thing, when it comes to talking about issues.
I know 15-20 years ago, if this forum was up and running; UPC would forbid chatting here.
They might be more apt to reach and hear what YOU think if you did it with a different attitude or in a different way
Praxeas
03-15-2007, 04:06 PM
I thought coop was banned?
We took up an auction but nobody would bid enough...so for now he stays :happydance
The Antagonist
03-15-2007, 04:17 PM
Wow!
I don't know how much longer I am going to be able to stay. My head has swiveled back and forth so much today in total disbelief that I think it is about to come loose at the hinges.
Just when I think I heard it all...
Praxeas
03-15-2007, 04:26 PM
Wow!
I don't know how much longer I am going to be able to stay. My head has swiveled back and forth so much today in total disbelief that I think it is about to come loose at the hinges.
Just when I think I heard it all...
But wait! There's more! And now with your double decker Ronco-matic you will also be receiving this nifty slicorama FREE! That's right folks absolutely free!
They might be more apt to reach and hear what YOU think if you did it with a different attitude or in a different way
Praceas for some people there will never be a right way...
Coonskinner
03-15-2007, 04:32 PM
Praceas for some people there will never be a right way...
That may be true of a small minority, Necker, but have you read Cooper's posts?
Do you endorse his manner and attitude?
I don't see how you possibly could.
What does CC1, Felicity, Pianoman, Carpenter have in common?
They are all what we call liberal on the Apostolic scale. much like Daniel and Coop.
They also have a great deal of respect from people like RRFord and Coonskinner and Elder Epley and others who are very conservitive.
They debate, discuss, get heated and dont have the spirit of Ham.
I dont know how else to convey it.
mizpeh
03-15-2007, 04:47 PM
Mr Alicea and J-Roc decided that they were above a request in bold type and size 7 font to edit their photos and comments.
They are banned for seven days.
We do not tolerate bashing others and we do not allow bashing preachers.
:highfive
That may be true of a small minority, Necker, but have you read Cooper's posts?
Do you endorse his manner and attitude?
I don't see how you possibly could.
Coonskinner,
I do respect you in many ways. I do agree Cooper does step over the line on occassions.
I do respect you...
What does CC1, Felicity, Pianoman, Carpenter have in common?
They are all what we call liberal on the Apostolic scale. much like Daniel and Coop.
They also have a great deal of respect from people like RRFord and Coonskinner and Elder Epley and others who are very conservitive.
They debate, discuss, get heated and dont have the spirit of Ham.
I dont know how else to convey it.
Ferd,
I agree.... I also lean on the liberal side of the scale.
I also respect the Conservative folks u mentioned.
Because at the end of the day we still read each other's posts.
Many have also caused me to pause and think.
Thus stopping me from saying some things I just should not say...
Praxeas
03-15-2007, 05:33 PM
What does CC1, Felicity, Pianoman, Carpenter have in common?
They are all what we call liberal on the Apostolic scale. much like Daniel and Coop.
They also have a great deal of respect from people like RRFord and Coonskinner and Elder Epley and others who are very conservitive.
They debate, discuss, get heated and dont have the spirit of Ham.
I dont know how else to convey it.
where does that leave the rest of us?
rgcraig
03-15-2007, 06:01 PM
where does that leave the rest of us?
lost?
where does that leave the rest of us?
lost?
I know! im never on those lists either. its like we are in the pound waiting for someone to adopt us!
rgcraig
03-15-2007, 06:46 PM
I know! im never on those lists either. its like we are in the pound waiting for someone to adopt us!
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f108/rgcraig/puppy.jpg
BoredOutOfMyMind
03-15-2007, 07:02 PM
I know! im never on those lists either. its like we are in the pound waiting for someone to adopt us!
Always a bride, never a bridesmaid?!?
Brother Price
03-15-2007, 08:32 PM
Thank you Admins for taking such good action on this thread.
rrford
03-15-2007, 08:37 PM
What does CC1, Felicity, Pianoman, Carpenter have in common?
They are all what we call liberal on the Apostolic scale. much like Daniel and Coop.
They also have a great deal of respect from people like RRFord and Coonskinner and Elder Epley and others who are very conservitive.
They debate, discuss, get heated and dont have the spirit of Ham.
I dont know how else to convey it.
As well as several others I could mention...
Scott Hutchinson
03-15-2007, 08:37 PM
I sure am not UPCI but I have brethren in it, I have some views on some things but bashing other brethren isn't my style.
Praxeas
03-15-2007, 08:45 PM
I sure am not UPCI but I have brethren in it, I have some views on some things but bashing other brethren isn't my style.
Really? Anyone we know? :toofunny
Scott Hutchinson
03-15-2007, 08:47 PM
Really? Anyone we know? :toofunny
Anyone who is borned again of water and spirit is my family.
Yes PRAX you are my kin.
I like Daniel A. he is a friend but he does go over the top.
Really? Anyone we know? :toofunny
I see you moved up to the #2 spot. There is no way for you to get the new #1 banned. Now what are u going to do? I miss Dan A.....
:nah
Coonskinner
03-15-2007, 08:52 PM
Coonskinner,
I do respect you in many ways. I do agree Cooper does step over the line on occassions.
I do respect you...
Thank you Necker.
The respect is mutual.
rrford
03-15-2007, 08:53 PM
I feel a sweet spirit in this place...
Praxeas
03-15-2007, 08:53 PM
Anyone who is borned again of water and spirit is my family.
Yes PRAX you are my kin.
I like Daniel A. he is a friend but he does go over the top.
And he sometimes goes underneath too :-)
Praxeas
03-15-2007, 08:54 PM
I see you moved up to the #2 spot. There is no way for you to get the new #1 banned. Now what are u going to do? I miss Dan A.....
:nah
Dan is still #1 in posts unless someone edited them out
HeavenlyOne
03-15-2007, 09:46 PM
Mr Alicea and J-Roc decided that they were above a request in bold type and size 7 font to edit their photos and comments.
They are banned for seven days.
We do not tolerate bashing others and we do not allow bashing preachers.
Thank you. It's about time. ;)
Dan is still #1 in posts unless someone edited them out
Well I just mentioned it because for the moment he is banned....
Truly Blessed
03-16-2007, 05:45 AM
My real thought are the connections....
If they are pastors and have to leave their congregation where will they go?
If they have a small church will they be able to substain and survive?
If they evangelize who do they call?
It is out of fear of the unknown that many feel the need to connect.
The men who have left started relationships before they broke away...
Just my thoughts.....There is the notion within the UPCI culture that if anyone leaves the UPCI that will be the end of ministry for them. While that may be true for some, my personal experience is that more doors have opened to me since leaving the UPC than did while I was in it. What I appreciate about these new open doors is that the opportunities are based upon your ministry, not upon the card you have in your wallet, or how well placed you are within an organization.
Within every organization you inevitably end up with a "good ole boys" network. Many youger men find it rather overwhelming trying to get accepted into the network. One of the growing problems within the UPC is that the younger generation is not into "branding" like previous generations have been. They don't feel as committed to the UPC brand.
The present bruhaha certainly won't help deal with this challenge. Young men tend to become disillusioned when they see older men they have respected engaged in spiritual mud wrestling bouts. Everyone involved gets dirty and the younger generation is often left with the daunting task of cleaning up the mess left behind, and a weakened organization.
Time has certainly proven one thing for sure. The AS has certainly left the UPCI a weaker, not stronger organization. I don't not say this to bash the UPCI. It's just an observation from someone outside looking in.
Monkeyman
03-16-2007, 06:16 AM
hmmmm...well I have my sad stories to tell too but I have more good than bad.
I guess I defend it because it has done more for me than I have for it.
It gave me a chance to do what I love when others thought I shouldn't have the opportunity.
It has brought to me some of my closest friends.
It taught me to achieve and accomplish more in my craft/ministry.
It has given me the BEST pastors.
It is the place where a few times in my life I felt the actual Hand of God pick me back up.
I found my main (umm, only?) squeeze here.
It feels like home.
I'll take it warts and all, not saying I'm here forever, just that I appreciate all it has done for me and my family.
COOPER
03-16-2007, 08:09 AM
"a chip on your shoulder"
A person who has "a chip on his shoulder" is angry because of some thing that happened in the past. Example: "He lost his game this morning, and now he has a chip on his shoulder." It is easy for a person to get in a fight when he has a chip on his shoulder, because he is already angry about something else. Example: "Watch out for that guy, he's got a chip on his shoulder." To start a fight, men used to put chips of wood on their shoulder and challenge others to "try to knock it off". Example: "What's bothering that guy?" Reply: "Nothing. He's just got a chip on the shoulder." Example: "Tom had a tough time growing up, so he's got a bit of a chip on his shoulder." You can use the definite article ("the") which sounds more general ("a chip on the shoulder"), but more often people use the personal pronoun ("his", "her", "their") to say that that specific person has "a chip on his (her, their) shoulder."
There you have it.
UPC has a hard time through the Past and present and many folks express there negativity often, therefore they [UPC] "broad brushing now", have a chip on the shoulder.
Post anything that reveals a problem and you will most assuredly get the Chip flippers on your back.
And it Goes both ways,
The UPC throws chips at the ex-UPC and the ex-UPC throw them back.
I have had my shoulders laden with lots of chips.
Sister Truth Seeker
03-16-2007, 08:58 AM
* Why are some folks so set on defending the org at any cost even if means being wrong? Why do they feel they must be vanguards of a man-made institution?
* Why can't some step back and examine issues without trepidation or fear that they may deemed blasphemous?
* Why do some beat the drum of a man made org and forget there is a larger Body?
Don't they have anything better to do with their time?
I mean didn't Paul and Peter get into it ?
Weren't there issues of contention? See Acts 15.
Just curious....Because they believe in it whole heartedly...
Brother Price
03-16-2007, 03:14 PM
Why is it that those who attack the UPC have a bad attitude when they do so? Makes me think...
There is a difference in leaving the UPCI & leaving the Apostolic Doctrine.
What is more important to ask is "why they left" and "with what attitude?"
JMHO
Just a Shepherd
03-16-2007, 04:51 PM
I am a UPC licensed minister for over 10 years and will likely leave this year. It is not that anything has been done to offend me but rather I am running out of reasons to stay...
I am a UPC licensed minister for over 10 years and will likely leave this year. It is not that anything has been done to offend me but rather I am running out of reasons to stay...
The best advice would to line up with a few friends who are in the ministry. DO your best not to speak badly about men who have not left.
Because some of those men may stop by to preach for you etc.
After the blaze their trail as well.
Blessings to you as you go forward.
Nathan Eckstadt
Just a Shepherd
03-16-2007, 05:01 PM
The best advice would to line up with a few friends who are in the ministry. DO your best not to speak badly about men who have not left.
Because some of those men may stop by to preach for you etc.
After the blaze their trail as well.
Blessings to you as you go forward.
Nathan Eckstadt
I won't speak bad about anyone in or out. It's not my thing - I really don't have much interest in the organization, it's future direction, leadership, etc...
I am too busy shepherding this local flock and trying to spread the gospel here. It takes all my energy and time.
I will keep supporting the missionaries though, I believe in them and their calling.
I won't speak bad about anyone in or out. It's not my thing - I really don't have much interest in the organization, it's future direction, leadership, etc...
I am too busy shepherding this local flock and trying to spread the gospel here. It takes all my energy and time.
I will keep supporting the missionaries though, I believe in them and their calling.
That is a great way of looking at it and going about it.... No matter what you might still have friends within the UPCI.
God Bless.........
Nathan Eckstadt
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