View Full Version : Someone Sent This to my Email...
Annie
03-17-2007, 05:20 PM
Rachel's Glory
Bill and I went to church in Alexandria, Louisiana last weekend and I saw a young lady and her husband that I have known for a couple years. Her name is Rachel and I forget her husband's name, but the testimony he shared with me touched me so much. This is how I remember the testimony:
Rachel's husband was diagnosed with a degenerative nerve disease that is ultimately fatal, no cure. All his test initially were positive for this disease. This disease was very painful, it began in his feet. I remember being in Jackson, Mississippi at Thanksgiving time, when I first heard the awful news. Well, I asked him how he was doing, and I told him the reason I was asking is because he looked great. And I will give you his answer as closely as I can remember.
Rachel got up one morning after the diagnosis was given to them, she took her long, uncut hair down and laid it over her husband's feet. She said, " Lord, I made a covenant with you not to cut my hair. My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family. My hair is my glory and power with the angels. And as I lay my hair before you, uncut in obedience to your Word, I am asking you to heal and protect my husband from this disease that has been diagnosed." By this time tears are just rolling down both of our faces, how powerful is that!! Well, he went back to the doctor over the next few weeks and months and every test that they did was negative, and the doctor's only explanation was that the machines must have not been working correctly. But we know that God deserves the glory for his healing.
I just wanted to share this powerful testimony with all the ladies.
Your long, uncut hair is your glory, your power with the angels, and a covenant between you and the ONE that will supply all your needs. Hopefully, I can get Rachel to write it in her own words soon. It is worthy of repeating and our Pentecostal ladies need to hear it. God is faithful.
Love you all
Nancy Mikesell
I really don't know what to say...honestly. I just thought I would share.
I don't know the original sender, Nancy Mikesell. This was 'forwarded' to me.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 05:20 PM
God honoured her faith.
seguidordejesus
03-17-2007, 05:27 PM
Maybe the machines weren't working?
seguidordejesus
03-17-2007, 05:27 PM
I actually felt ill reading this.
Annie
03-17-2007, 05:27 PM
God honoured her faith.
I agree, but what did she mean by the 'veil of protection' for her family?? I have never read THAT in the Bible. If that is truly the case, how does that explain the dear saints of God that have died of cancer, and never cut their hair?? My g-ma never touched scissors to her hair, and she died a horrible, painful death- due to breast cancer...
I just really don't 'get it'...
seguidordejesus
03-17-2007, 05:30 PM
I agree, but what did she mean by the 'veil of protection' for her family?? I have never read THAT in the Bible. If that is truly the case, how does that explain the dear saints of God that have died of cancer, and never cut their hair?? My g-ma never touched scissors to her hair, and she died a horrible, painful death- due to breast cancer...
I just really don't 'get it'...
The reason you've never read it in the Bible is because it's not there.
Annie
03-17-2007, 05:34 PM
The reason you've never read it in the Bible is because it's not there.
Some folks scare me...:aaa
Rachel's Glory
Bill and I went to church in Alexandria, Louisiana last weekend and I saw a young lady and her husband that I have known for a couple years. Her name is Rachel and I forget her husband's name, but the testimony he shared with me touched me so much. This is how I remember the testimony:
Rachel's husband was diagnosed with a degenerative nerve disease that is ultimately fatal, no cure. All his test initially were positive for this disease. This disease was very painful, it began in his feet. I remember being in Jackson, Mississippi at Thanksgiving time, when I first heard the awful news. Well, I asked him how he was doing, and I told him the reason I was asking is because he looked great. And I will give you his answer as closely as I can remember.
Rachel got up one morning after the diagnosis was given to them, she took her long, uncut hair down and laid it over her husband's feet. She said, " Lord, I made a covenant with you not to cut my hair. My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family. My hair is my glory and power with the angels. And as I lay my hair before you, uncut in obedience to your Word, I am asking you to heal and protect my husband from this disease that has been diagnosed." By this time tears are just rolling down both of our faces, how powerful is that!! Well, he went back to the doctor over the next few weeks and months and every test that they did was negative, and the doctor's only explanation was that the machines must have not been working correctly. But we know that God deserves the glory for his healing.
I just wanted to share this powerful testimony with all the ladies.
Your long, uncut hair is your glory, your power with the angels, and a covenant between you and the ONE that will supply all your needs. Hopefully, I can get Rachel to write it in her own words soon. It is worthy of repeating and our Pentecostal ladies need to hear it. God is faithful.
Love you all
Nancy Mikesell
I really don't know what to say...honestly. I just thought I would share.
I don't know the original sender, Nancy Mikesell. This was 'forwarded' to me.
My brother shared a similar incident with me last night, and I told him that things like this scare me...
Annie
03-17-2007, 05:38 PM
My brother shared a similar incident with me last night, and I told him that things like this scare me...
Well, at least I know I am in good company...:winkgrin
Felicity
03-17-2007, 05:39 PM
If her hair was a veil of protection then he would never have gotten sick in the first place -- there would have been no need of diagnosis.
Forget the hair. Mark it down to faith possibly.
She has been taught this RR hair doctrine that your hair provides protection from bad things happening to you.
Explain that to all the women who have never cut their hair but who have had catastrophic events take place in their homes, in their own families and their own personal lives.
I agree, but what did she mean by the 'veil of protection' for her family?? I have never read THAT in the Bible. If that is truly the case, how does that explain the dear saints of God that have died of cancer, and never cut their hair?? My g-ma never touched scissors to her hair, and she died a horrible, painful death- due to breast cancer...
I just really don't 'get it'...
I have heard of a Hegde of protection not a veil. Maybe this was a mistake...
Annie
03-17-2007, 05:43 PM
I have heard of a Hegde of protection not a veil. Maybe this was a mistake...
Well, brother, I've seen some hair that looked like 'hedges'...:slaphappy
Malvaro
03-17-2007, 05:44 PM
I have heard of a Hegde of protection not a veil. Maybe this was a mistake...
Gotta agree with Neck on this one....
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 05:44 PM
Gotta agree with Neck on this one....
Job 1:10 Hast not thou made an hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land.But what was the hedge of protection? Certainly not hair.
Malvaro
03-17-2007, 05:47 PM
But what was the hedge of protection? Certainly not hair.
I didn't suggest it was....
Felicity
03-17-2007, 05:50 PM
I didn't suggest it was....Yes, after I typed that I realized that wasn't what you were saying. I was a little too quick on the draw there. :o
MrsMcD
03-17-2007, 05:58 PM
Rachel's Glory
Bill and I went to church in Alexandria, Louisiana last weekend and I saw a young lady and her husband that I have known for a couple years. Her name is Rachel and I forget her husband's name, but the testimony he shared with me touched me so much. This is how I remember the testimony:
Rachel's husband was diagnosed with a degenerative nerve disease that is ultimately fatal, no cure. All his test initially were positive for this disease. This disease was very painful, it began in his feet. I remember being in Jackson, Mississippi at Thanksgiving time, when I first heard the awful news. Well, I asked him how he was doing, and I told him the reason I was asking is because he looked great. And I will give you his answer as closely as I can remember.
Rachel got up one morning after the diagnosis was given to them, she took her long, uncut hair down and laid it over her husband's feet. She said, " Lord, I made a covenant with you not to cut my hair. My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family. My hair is my glory and power with the angels. And as I lay my hair before you, uncut in obedience to your Word, I am asking you to heal and protect my husband from this disease that has been diagnosed." By this time tears are just rolling down both of our faces, how powerful is that!! Well, he went back to the doctor over the next few weeks and months and every test that they did was negative, and the doctor's only explanation was that the machines must have not been working correctly. But we know that God deserves the glory for his healing.
I just wanted to share this powerful testimony with all the ladies.
Your long, uncut hair is your glory, your power with the angels, and a covenant between you and the ONE that will supply all your needs. Hopefully, I can get Rachel to write it in her own words soon. It is worthy of repeating and our Pentecostal ladies need to hear it. God is faithful.
Love you all
Nancy Mikesell
I really don't know what to say...honestly. I just thought I would share.
I don't know the original sender, Nancy Mikesell. This was 'forwarded' to me.
I don't mean to be rude but sometimes I wonder if stories like this aren't what makes "outsiders" think we are lunatics. Give God the glory for this ladies faith. Uncut hair has nothing to do with it.
If her hair was a veil of protection then he would never have gotten sick in the first place -- there would have been no need of diagnosis.
Forget the hair. Mark it down to faith possibly.
She has been taught this RR hair doctrine that your hair provides protection from bad things happening to you.
Explain that to all the women who have never cut their hair but who have had catastrophic events take place in their homes, in their own families and their own personal lives.
Exactly...one of my sisters in law told me that she knows she has power in the prayer room because she has not cut her hair. In other words, someone with cut hair can't pray?! She came too late to tell me that one.
I said, "I don't cut mine either, but show me this in Scripture." She couldn't...
I don't mean to be rude but sometimes I wonder if stories like this aren't what makes "outsiders" think we are lunatics. Give God the glory for this ladies faith. Uncut hair has nothing to do with it.
Amen!!
rgcraig
03-17-2007, 06:04 PM
:crazy :uhoh :crazy
Felicity
03-17-2007, 06:11 PM
I'm a little surprised that this testimony comes from someone attending the POA church.
Uncut hair has nothing to do with it.But, obedience has everything to do with it. :winkgrin
rgcraig
03-17-2007, 06:17 PM
But, obedience has everything to do with it. :winkgrin
Same question...what about the woman that has uncut hair (in obedience as you are suggesting) and her husband isn't heal?
Felicity
03-17-2007, 06:18 PM
Same question...what about the woman that has uncut hair (in obedience as you are suggesting) and her husband isn't heal?I was just getting ready to make a similar point.
If her hair was a veil of protection then he would never have gotten sick in the first place -- there would have been no need of diagnosis.So, does EVERY woman who does not cut her hair HAVE TO have a perfectly healthy family everyday of their lives?
How do you know that this specific instance wasn't used by God as a testimony of that covenant she had with Him? You don't, do you?
I think the conclusion you made is silly. Sorry, but I can't think of any other word to use. :tiphat
Felicity
03-17-2007, 06:19 PM
I pray and God answers my prayers. So he hears and answers the prayer of both long haired and shorter haired women.
That debunks the whole "uncut hair is your protection against bad things happening to you" theory.
Same question...what about the woman that has uncut hair (in obedience as you are suggesting) and her husband isn't heal?Ask God. He does not clue me in on about 99.99999999% of what He does for me and even less times for others.
The blind man was born that way for God's glory. I can't tell you that this man wasn't healed because of her obedience anymore than you can tell me he wasn't because of it. The accusations you both make seem to stem from simply disagreeing with this ladies beliefs.
I pray and God answers my prayers. So he hears and answers the prayer of both long haired and shorter haired women.
That debunks the whole "uncut hair is your protection against bad things happening to you" theory.Who brought that theory up, Felicity?
rgcraig
03-17-2007, 06:23 PM
I'm thrilled her husband was healed, but to proclaim her hair is protective covering for her family is just WRONG and unbiblical.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 06:26 PM
Who brought that theory up, Felicity?It ties in.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 06:27 PM
Ask God. He does not clue me in on about 99.99999999% of what He does for me and even less times for others.
The blind man was born that way for God's glory. I can't tell you that this man wasn't healed because of her obedience anymore than you can tell me he wasn't because of it. The accusations you both make seem to stem from simply disagreeing with this ladies beliefs. What accusation has been made?
Who brought that theory up, Felicity?
I did...
Exactly...one of my sisters in law told me that she knows she has power in the prayer room because she has not cut her hair. In other words, someone with cut hair can't pray?! She came too late to tell me that one.
I said, "I don't cut mine either, but show me this in Scripture." She couldn't...
I'm thrilled her husband was healed, but to proclaim her hair is protective covering for her family is just WRONG and unbiblical.I know many who disagree with you. Go figure.
What accusation has been made?That her belief as to why he was healed is wrong.
rgcraig
03-17-2007, 06:33 PM
I know many who disagree with you. Go figure.
No doubt. Can you share the scripture where having uncut hair provides a protective covering over your family?
I did...
The story here has nothing to do with God HEARING or ANSWERING prayers exclusively for women with uncut hair. :nah But, THAT is what it's turned out to be. And, it turned out to be because those who disagree made it that way.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 06:36 PM
That her belief as to why he was healed is wrong.How would you define her belief as to why he was healed?
No doubt. Can you share the scripture where having uncut hair provides a protective covering over your family?I can't answer an objection, rgcraig.
I've probably got the same ones the other 1000 have given you, along with about 10 sermons of different ministers covering the topic.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 06:37 PM
OGIA........
You think her husband was healed because of her obedience then?
How would you define her belief as to why he was healed?It's in the opening post, Felicity.
MrsMcD
03-17-2007, 06:38 PM
OGIA........
You think her husband was healed because of her obedience then?
Obedience to what?
Felicity
03-17-2007, 06:40 PM
I'm glad he was healed. But I've heard testimonies of women taking their hair down and spreading it over sick children believing that they would be healed because of the fact she was "obedient" in not having cut her hair.
I believe we can refer to these kind of things when we pray. I've prayed before reminding God of obedience and sacrifice and faithfulness but not every prayer is always answered because of these things.
Neither does my obedience, yieldedness, submission, sacrifice protect me against catastrophe or sickness nor does it ward off such.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 06:41 PM
It's in the opening post, Felicity.I read that. I wanted to hear your definition.
The story here has nothing to do with God HEARING or ANSWERING prayers exclusively for women with uncut hair. :nah But, THAT is what it's turned out to be. And, it turned out to be because those who disagree made it that way.
I don't cut my hair and have no desire to, but do NOT believe in laying my hair on someone for healing or salvation or any other purpose. That is just too spooky for me...
It is almost making my uncut hair the healer and it's ridiculous. The healing is in Jesus Christ and my faith in HIS power.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 06:42 PM
Obedience to what?Obedience to a teaching/command that in my understanding of scripture doesn't exist.
I'm glad he was healed. But I've heard testimonies of women taking their hair down and spreading it over sick children believing that they would be healed because of the fact she was "obedient" in not having cut her hair.
I believe we can refer to these kind of things when we pray. I've prayed before reminding God of obedience and sacrifice and faithfulness but not every prayer is always answered because of these things.
Neither does my obedience, yieldedness, submission, sacrifice protect me against catastrophe or sickness nor does it ward off such.
Exactly...
rgcraig
03-17-2007, 06:42 PM
I don't cut my hair and have no desire to, but do NOT believe in laying my hair on someone for healing or salvation or any other purpose. That is just too spooky for me...
It is almost making my uncut hair the healer and it's ridiculous. The healing is in Jesus Christ and my faith in HIS power.
Well said!
MrsMcD
03-17-2007, 06:43 PM
I don't cut my hair and have no desire to, but do NOT believe in laying my hair on someone for healing or salvation or any other purpose. That is just too spooky for me...
It is almost making my uncut hair the healer and it's ridiculous. The healing is in Jesus Christ and my faith in HIS power.
True!!!
I have read about faith healing people many times in the bible but never uncut hair.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 06:44 PM
Yes well OGIA doesn't believe that this lady had any confidence in her hair ..... it was a matter of her having confidence in the fact that because she had been obedient and hadn't cut her hair that God favoured her and answered prayer.
But then, why did she feel she should spread her hair over her child and referred to it as a "veil of protection"???
MrsMcD
03-17-2007, 06:45 PM
Yes well OGIA doesn't believe that this lady had any confidence in her hair ..... it was a matter of her having confidence in the fact that because she had been obedient and hadn't cut her hair that God favoured her and answered prayer.
But then, why did she feel she should spread her hair over her child and referred to it as a "veil of protection"???
Sounds like she had read a book to me and it wasn't the book of the bible. :grampa
HeavenlyOne
03-17-2007, 06:46 PM
Who brought that theory up, Felicity?
Lots of people believe that theory and repeat it.
rgcraig
03-17-2007, 06:46 PM
Sounds like she had read a book to me and it wasn't the book of the bible. :grampa
RReally? :slaphappy
MrsMcD
03-17-2007, 06:47 PM
RReally? :slaphappy
LOL - too funny!
HeavenlyOne
03-17-2007, 06:47 PM
I know many who disagree with you. Go figure.
Lots of people disagree with lots of things I believe, but if they don't have Bible for their disagreement, they are disagreeing with God too.
Yes well OGIA doesn't believe that this lady had any confidence in her hair ..... it was a matter of her having confidence in the fact that because she had been obedient and hadn't cut her hair that God favoured her and answered prayer.
But then, why did she feel she should spread her hair over her child and referred to it as a "veil of protection"???
Good question...I'm done for the night, Saints...goodnite...:bedtime
HeavenlyOne
03-17-2007, 06:48 PM
The story here has nothing to do with God HEARING or ANSWERING prayers exclusively for women with uncut hair. :nah But, THAT is what it's turned out to be. And, it turned out to be because those who disagree made it that way.
To claim that uncut hair heals people is akin to witchcraft. Faith heals us. Uncut hair doesn't. That's Bible.
HeavenlyOne
03-17-2007, 06:49 PM
I'm glad he was healed. But I've heard testimonies of women taking their hair down and spreading it over sick children believing that they would be healed because of the fact she was "obedient" in not having cut her hair.
I believe we can refer to these kind of things when we pray. I've prayed before reminding God of obedience and sacrifice and faithfulness but not every prayer is always answered because of these things.
Neither does my obedience, yieldedness, submission, sacrifice protect me against catastrophe or sickness nor does it ward off such.
Good points, my friend.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 06:51 PM
By the way OGIA.........
Welcome to AFF!! I'm glad you're here posting. We'll find something we agree on eventually I'm sure. ;) :)
rgcraig
03-17-2007, 06:52 PM
To claim that uncut hair heals people is akin to witchcraft. Faith heals us. Uncut hair doesn't. That's Bible.
Obedience does too, as the man that dipped in the muddy water. However, the man didn't go around preaching to be healed you had to dip in the river.
Newman
03-17-2007, 06:53 PM
I'm a little surprised that this testimony comes from someone attending the POA church.
Well, frankly I am a lititle surprised that we don't know Rachel's last name and haven't read about it elsewhere. Makes you wonder about this anonymous couple attending one of the largest churches... Pentecostal Urban Legend? :cool:
Felicity
03-17-2007, 06:54 PM
Obedience does too, as the man that dipped in the muddy water. However, the man didn't go around preaching to be healed you had to dip in the river. **high five**
MrsMcD
03-17-2007, 06:54 PM
Obedience does too, as the man that dipped in the muddy water. However, the man didn't go around preaching to be healed you had to dip in the river.
This is really a good point. I can't wait to use it. :tiphat
Felicity
03-17-2007, 06:57 PM
Well, frankly I am a lititle surprised that we don't know Rachel's last name and haven't read about it elsewhere. Makes you wonder about this anonymous couple attending one of the largest churches... Pentecostal Urban Legend? :cool: Well, we've heard other similar stories though about women doing this type of thing. I've heard of women spreading their hair over their children and praying for them, taking their hair down at the altar feeling it will give them greater leverage in their worship or intercession.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 07:06 PM
I think it's important too to make the point that nobody here has a problem with women leaving their hair long and uncut if they feel this is what Scripture demands from them or if they are submitting to a spiritual leader who is demanding this of them.
I appreciate an attitude of submission and yieldedness and God does too. Obedience isn't an option. We all know this.
We just need to keep the emphasis where it belongs. Otherwise you get sidetracked into error.
Annie
03-17-2007, 07:11 PM
Well, frankly I am a lititle surprised that we don't know Rachel's last name and haven't read about it elsewhere. Makes you wonder about this anonymous couple attending one of the largest churches... Pentecostal Urban Legend? :cool:
Possibilty...
RevDWW
03-17-2007, 07:20 PM
Well, frankly I am a lititle surprised that we don't know Rachel's last name and haven't read about it elsewhere. Makes you wonder about this anonymous couple attending one of the largest churches... Pentecostal Urban Legend? :cool:
If I remember, I'll ask around tomorrow and see what I can find out about this.
HeavenlyOne
03-17-2007, 07:36 PM
Obedience does too, as the man that dipped in the muddy water. However, the man didn't go around preaching to be healed you had to dip in the river.
I agree, but it was his faith that healed him. Faith without works is dead, so yes, without obedience, he wouldn't have been healed. I know you believe this also. Thanks for the clarification though.
And if all I had to do was dip in water to be healed, I'd look like a prune from the constant dipping if I had to!
HeavenlyOne
03-17-2007, 07:39 PM
Well, we've heard other similar stories though about women doing this type of thing. I've heard of women spreading their hair over their children and praying for them, taking their hair down at the altar feeling it will give them greater leverage in their worship or intercession.
I visited a church a couple years ago and there was a woman there who's son was in a bad car accident and wasn't expected to live. She went to the ER and laid her hair on him and he was healed instantly.
However, it wasn't her hair that healed him, but her faith. Men without long hair pray for people all the time and they are healed as well. Women with cut hair pray for people all the time and they are healed also.
Works doesn't save us, nor does it heal us, yet some people will remind God about how they've done this or that and they are owed something or that God should honor their sacrifice or whatever. I don't see that as Biblical.
Obedience to a teaching/command that in my understanding of scripture doesn't exist.
Obedience to what?
Obedience is plainly spelt out in Scripture.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 08:01 PM
Obedience to what?
Obedience is plainly spelt out in Scripture.Now Ron.........you know full well that even amongst conservative Oneness Pentecostals there is debate over Paul's teaching. We have evidence of that right here in this area with some pastors demanding uncut hair, some demanding hats, and others allowing for trimming.
There is no consensus on the "hair" chapter.
Now Ron.........you know full well that even amongst conservative Oneness Pentecostals there is debate over Paul's teaching. We have evidence of that right here in this area with some pastors demanding uncut hair, some demanding hats, and others allowing for trimming.
There is no concensus on the "hair" chapter.
Well when I saw "obedience"....
I don't think a women's hair has magic any more than Samson's did.
His obedience to his vow is what gave him his strength.
BTW His strength lie in the "Annointing" of almighty God!
Always has always did.
Sherri
03-17-2007, 08:24 PM
These kind of people take away the healing power of the blood sacrifice of the cross. Healing is in Him alone, not in anyone's hair. This is Hair-esy!!!!:happydance
Felicity
03-17-2007, 08:28 PM
And as I lay my hair before you, uncut in obedience to your Word, I am asking you to heal and protect my husband from this disease that has been diagnosed."It's quite clear to me from this statement where her faith lies.
Sorry if I missed any posts after page....oh, 6. The topic has gotten so diverted from the original intent that it's not worth addressing most of the questions. So, I quit reading.
Felicity, I believe the man was healed because of the prayers of a godly, faith-filled woman. She used her hair as a reminder to God, just as you used whatever it was you said you reminded God of. The uncut hair issue was brought out by YOU and another who don't agree, and then the bandwagon started and ran with the notion that uncut hair was being used as some sort of witchcraft-ish tool. How stupid! Juvenile and idiotic might even apply.
In closing, the topic of whether you cut your hair or not as a woman is NONE OF MY BUSINESS. That is why I would not go into this with rgcraig. It is up to YOU and your husband, if you're married. Of course, it's ultimately between you and God. I don't delve into such areas with single or married women.
Many of you have chosen what you will do and already do. I don't choose to waste my keyboard breath to pursue this topic.
berkeley
03-17-2007, 09:04 PM
Magic hair.... witchcraft!!!
Felicity
03-17-2007, 09:06 PM
Sorry if I missed any posts after page....oh, 6. The topic has gotten so diverted from the original intent that it's not worth addressing most of the questions. So, I quit reading.
Felicity, I believe the man was healed because of the prayers of a godly, faith-filled woman. She used her hair as a reminder to God, just as you used whatever it was you said you reminded God of. The uncut hair issue was brought out by YOU and another who don't agree, and then the bandwagon started and ran with the notion that uncut hair was being used as some sort of witchcraft-ish tool. How stupid! Juvenile and idiotic might even apply.
In closing, the topic of whether you cut your hair or not as a woman is NONE OF MY BUSINESS. That is why I would not go into this with rgcraig. It is up to YOU and your husband, if you're married. Of course, it's ultimately between you and God. I don't delve into such areas with single or married women.
Many of you have chosen what you will do and already do. I don't choose to waste my keyboard breath to pursue this topic.Fine, although I think the terms juvenile and idiotic are a stretch.
Are we going to start bandying these kind of descriptive terms about when discussion doesn't go our way? Because if so I have a few repartee's you might appreciate.......or not.
:D
Felicity
03-17-2007, 09:09 PM
Magic hair.... witchcraft!!!Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and cauldron bubble
:woot
RevDWW
03-17-2007, 09:12 PM
Cat fight!!!!!! :slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy
Look I personally think that long hair is a glory to the woman, seems Paul said the same. I don't see Paul saying anything about cut hair and hell.
The question that each woman should ask herself is: "How much glory do I want?"
berkeley
03-17-2007, 09:13 PM
Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and cauldron bubble
:wootlol
berkeley
03-17-2007, 09:13 PM
Cat fight!!!!!! :slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy
Look I personally think that long hair is a glory to the woman, seems Paul said the same. I don't see Paul saying anything about cut hair and hell.
The question that each woman should ask herself is: "How much glory do I want?"
Are you serious?
Felicity
03-17-2007, 09:14 PM
Sorry if I missed any posts after page....oh, 6. The topic has gotten so diverted from the original intent that it's not worth addressing most of the questions. So, I quit reading.
Felicity, I believe the man was healed because of the prayers of a godly, faith-filled woman. She used her hair as a reminder to God, just as you used whatever it was you said you reminded God of. The uncut hair issue was brought out by YOU and another who don't agree, and then the bandwagon started and ran with the notion that uncut hair was being used as some sort of witchcraft-ish tool. How stupid! Juvenile and idiotic might even apply.
In closing, the topic of whether you cut your hair or not as a woman is NONE OF MY BUSINESS. That is why I would not go into this with rgcraig. It is up to YOU and your husband, if you're married. Of course, it's ultimately between you and God. I don't delve into such areas with single or married women.
Many of you have chosen what you will do and already do. I don't choose to waste my keyboard breath to pursue this topic.This topic isn't worthy of your keyboard breath and yet it's considered a heaven/hell issue? Well well.
Another thing, I never asked for your opinion. Nobody did. You gave it of your own free will and then when you get exasperated you start spouting off put-down words. None of the women here did that.
Just to make the point, sir. :tiphat
Sherri
03-17-2007, 09:15 PM
Cat fight!!!!!! :slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy
Look I personally think that long hair is a glory to the woman, seems Paul said the same. I don't see Paul saying anything about cut hair and hell.
The question that each woman should ask herself is: "How much glory do I want?"
You've got to be kidding!!! I didn't even trim my hair for 15 years and it never got much past my shoulders. Does that mean I had less glory than someone with hair to their knees??? That's crazy talk.
berkeley
03-17-2007, 09:16 PM
[/B]
You've got to be kidding!!! I didn't even trim my hair for 15 years and it never got much past my shoulders. Does that mean I had less glory than someone with hair to their knees??? That's crazy talk.tell us, how much glory do you want?? :toofunny
Sherri
03-17-2007, 09:18 PM
tell us, how much glory do you want?? :toofunny
I long for His glory, but it doesn't come through my hair!:tiphat
Fine, although I think the terms juvenile and idiotic are a stretch. Did you notice I said the "might apply"?
It just amazes me how a little fire starts a humongous blaze. Well, not really. One person mentions some silly notion that this woman used her hair to heal and it's "off to the races!!" Ends up she's using withcraft.
Reminds me of ... yes ... juveniles.
Margies3
03-17-2007, 09:21 PM
If her uncut hair is what healed her husband then I don't know why Jesus bothered to endure all those beatings and received all those stripes. He should have saved Himself the pain and sacrifice.
This topic isn't worthy of your keyboard breath and yet it's considered a heaven/hell issue? Well well.Debating with YOU is not worth my keyboard breath.
Now I see how the topic got so silly. You have a great way of diverting the truth, don't you?
Another thing, I never asked for your opinion. Nobody did. You gave it of your own free will and then when you get exasperated you start spouting off put-down words. None of the women here did that.Exasperated? Don't flatter yourself.
RevDWW
03-17-2007, 09:23 PM
[/B]
You've got to be kidding!!! I didn't even trim my hair for 15 years and it never got much past my shoulders. Does that mean I had less glory than someone with hair to their knees??? That's crazy talk.
Not really crazy talk. Can you cause your hair length to get longer? Probably not, but you do have the ability to make it shorter. :hmmm
Felicity
03-17-2007, 09:24 PM
Debating with YOU is not worth my keyboard breath.
Now I see how the topic got so silly. You have a great way of diverting the truth, don't you?
Exasperated? Don't flatter yourself. You got bad breath. Whew. :nah
Sherri
03-17-2007, 09:24 PM
Not really crazy talk. Can you cause your hair length to get longer? Probably not, but you do have the ability to make it shorter. :hmmm
Well, I guess I can get extensions; they look real. Everyone would think I had long hair then. But I don't think it has anything to do with the power of God; I really don't think He cares one way or the other as long as I look and act feminine.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 09:25 PM
Debating with YOU is not worth my keyboard breath.
Now I see how the topic got so silly. You have a great way of diverting the truth, don't you?
Exasperated? Don't flatter yourself.Now you're really showing your exasperation. :heeheehee
If her uncut hair is what healed her husband then I don't know why Jesus bothered to endure all those beatings and received all those stripes. He should have saved Himself the pain and sacrifice.
Margie,
The lady never claimed her hair healed her husband. That lie has been started through diversion of the facts and pure opinionated silliness.
Amazing. Simply amazing.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 09:26 PM
Margie,
The lady never claimed her hair healed her husband. That lie has been started through diversion of the facts and pure opinionated silliness.
Amazing. Simply amazing.Margie can read just like the rest of us.
berkeley
03-17-2007, 09:27 PM
I long for His glory, but it doesn't come through my hair!:tiphat
:highfive
Felicity
03-17-2007, 09:28 PM
" Lord, I made a covenant with you not to cut my hair. My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family. Hair is not a veil of protection for nuthin' and nowhere does Scripture say it is!
Margie can read just like the rest of us.
Never said she couldn't, but good try, once again, to divert the truth. You are really good at this, aren't you?
RevDWW
03-17-2007, 09:29 PM
Well, I guess I can get extensions; they look real. Everyone would think I had long hair then. But I don't think it has anything to do with the power of God; I really don't think He cares one way or the other as long as I look and act feminine.
1 Cor 11:15 (KJV) But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
I didn't mention power, I just mentioned glory. I suppose the "how long is long" debate can rage until Jesus comes.
Coonskinner
03-17-2007, 09:30 PM
Margie can read just like the rest of us.
Aunty,
I read the book, and while I cringed at some of the testimonials, it was pretty clear to me at least that obedience was the thing, not the hair as if it were some sacdred substance.
It is symbolic of submission and obedience.
Of course, that could be my bias.:)
I do think it is too bad for people to represent RR's views as some substituting of uncut har for the stripes on the back of Jesus.
We're all smarter than that, regardless of the level at which Margie can read and comprehend.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 09:30 PM
Never said she couldn't, but good try, once again, to divert the truth. You are really good at this, aren't you?Oh my yes. I've had a lot of experience at diverting the truth. Ask the people here. They'll tell you.
(TIC)
Coonskinner
03-17-2007, 09:31 PM
1 Cor 11:15 (KJV) But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.
I didn't mention power, I just mentioned glory. I suppose the "how long is long" debate can rage until Jesus comes.
I have a powerful anecdote about "how long is long," but ye are not able to bear it.:)
Felicity
03-17-2007, 09:32 PM
Aunty,
I read the book, and while I cringed at some of the testimonials, it was pretty clear to me at least that obedience was the thing, not the hair as if it were some sacdred substance.
It is symbolic of submission and obedience.
Of course, that could be my bias.:)
I do think it is too bad for people to represent RR's views as some substituting of uncut har for the stripes on the back of Jesus.
We're all smarter than that, regardless of the level at which Margie can read and comprehend. I'm referring to the testimony which started this thread -- it wasn't about RR or her teaching in the beginning -- just what this woman was testifying to, and what she stated.
Hair is NOT a veil of protection. She stated it was in her prayer.
berkeley
03-17-2007, 09:33 PM
Rachel got up one morning after the diagnosis was given to them, she took her long, uncut hair down and laid it over her husband's feet. She said, " Lord, I made a covenant with you not to cut my hair. My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family. My hair is my glory and power with the angels. And as I lay my hair before you, uncut in obedience to your Word, I am asking you to heal and protect my husband from this disease that has been diagnosed."
Rachel is confizzled!! Anyway, why did she lay hair on her husband? The word of God says to lay hands on the sick! Hands!! not hair!!
RevDWW
03-17-2007, 09:33 PM
I have a powerful anecdote about "how long is long," but ye are not able to bear it.:)
Does it have something to do with a bear? :winkgrin
RevDWW
03-17-2007, 09:34 PM
Rachel is confizzled!! Anyway, why did she lay hair on her husband? The word of God says to lay hands on the sick! Hands!! not hair!!
Hands, hair, cloths, or shadows....it's faith in Him that does the work.
Rachel is confizzled!! Anyway, why did she lay hair on her husband? The word of God says to lay hands on the sick! Hands!! not hair!!
Not to sidetrach the debate, but why did the passing of the Apostles shadow
on the sick result in their healing??
RevDWW
03-17-2007, 09:35 PM
Not to sidetrach the debate, but why did the passing of the Apostles shadow
on the sick result in their healing??
Ron, see my post above yours.
berkeley
03-17-2007, 09:36 PM
Rachel places hair on husbands feet...
Rachel reminds God that her uncut hair is her covenant with HIM...
Rachel prays for her husband and he is healed...
Rachel did not say that her hair healed her husband. We can only go by what is written, not by what is implied, though, I do believe that somewhere in Rachel's mind, she believes her hair has some kind of power.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 09:36 PM
My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family.
Hair is not a veil of protection for nuthin' and nowhere does Scripture say it is!
*bump*
Coonskinner
03-17-2007, 09:36 PM
I'm referring to the testimony which started this thread -- it wasn't about RR or her teaching in the beginning -- just what this woman was testifying to, and what she stated.
Hair is NOT a veil of protection. She stated it was in her prayer.
Oh...that's what I get for not reading through the whole thread.
You are correct.
I thought it was another round of whupping RR we were engaged in.
Sorry. *blushes*
Felicity
03-17-2007, 09:37 PM
Hands, hair, cloths, or shadows....it's faith in Him that does the work.Exactly!
Ron, see my post above yours.
Saw it.
I'm referring to the testimony which started this thread -- it wasn't about RR or her teaching in the beginning -- just what this woman was testifying to, and what she stated.
Hair is NOT a veil of protection. She stated it was in her prayer.
And we've yet to see where she claimed her hair did the healing, which is what has been not only insinuated, but promoted. That lie resulted from some juvenile comments and the whole thing turned into a witch hunt.
Rachel places hair on husbands feet...
Rachel reminds God that her uncut hair is her covenant with HIM...
Rachel prays for her husband and he is healed...
Rachel did not say that her hair healed her husband. We can only go by what is written, not by what is implied, though, I do believe that somewhere in Rachel's mind, she believes her hair has some kind of power.Finally, some common sense. I appreciate you saying that you "believe" this woman thought something. We really don't know, do we?
Hey, tell ya what.
I have strep throat, antibiotics haven't kicked in yet.
My wife doesn't cut her hair.
Maybe I will ask her to lay her hair on my neck? So I can get healed.
That way we will know fer sure.
One question-was this just washed hair or not?:D
berkeley
03-17-2007, 09:42 PM
Finally, some common sense. I appreciate you saying that you "believe" this woman thought something. We really don't know, do we?No, we really don't know.
What this woman did is the equivilent of taking a stack of your bank statements and laying them on the sick person while exclaiming "God these bank statements showing my tithe and offerings are proof of my committment to you now heal this person"
As others have said I believe her faith is what brought healing, not her hair. I file this under the same heading as the folks who get healed when Benny Hinn breathes his minty breath on them while praying for them along with giving them that special little shove. I believe some of those folks are healed but it is their faith and not Benny Hinn's breath or touch.
What this woman did is the equivilent of taking a stack of your bank statements and laying them on the sick person while exclaiming "God these bank statements showing my tithe and offerings are proof of my committment to you now heal this person"
As others have said I believe her faith is what brought healing, not her hair. I file this under the same heading as the folks who get healed when Benny Hinn breathes his minty breath on them while praying for them along with giving them that special little shove. I believe some of those folks are healed but it is their faith and not Benny Hinn's breath or touch.
I thought it was his Charisma?
berkeley
03-17-2007, 09:44 PM
What this woman did is the equivilent of taking a stack of your bank statements and laying them on the sick person while exclaiming "God these bank statements showing my tithe and offerings are proof of my committment to you now heal this person"
As others have said I believe her faith is what brought healing, not her hair. I file this under the same heading as the folks who get healed when Benny Hinn breathes his minty breath on them while praying for them along with giving them that special little shove. I believe some of those folks are healed but it is their faith and not Benny Hinn's breath or touch.Is it their faith in God that heals them, or their faith in Benny Hinn, magic hair, and the easter bunny??
berkeley
03-17-2007, 09:44 PM
I thought it was his Charisma?
Or his coat over your face...
Margies3
03-17-2007, 09:47 PM
Rachel's Glory
Rachel got up one morning after the diagnosis was given to them, she took her long, uncut hair down and laid it over her husband's feet. She said, " Lord, I made a covenant with you not to cut my hair. My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family. My hair is my glory and power with the angels. And as I lay my hair before you, uncut in obedience to your Word, I am asking you to heal and protect my husband from this disease that has been diagnosed."
I really don't know what to say...honestly. I just thought I would share.
I don't know the original sender, Nancy Mikesell. This was 'forwarded' to me.
The underlined portion doesn't explicitely say that the uncut hair is what healed her husband. But it sure looks like she's alluding to that in my opinion. You can read it the way you want to. But when I read it, that was the message that I was hearing her say.
So is this also alluding the idea that if a wife cuts her hair, God will not heal her husband?? Because, reading between the lines, that's what I'm seeing. And to that I'd have to say - bunk! I am living the proof of that. God doesn't heal or not heal based on whether or not a woman cuts her hair.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 09:49 PM
What this woman did is the equivilent of taking a stack of your bank statements and laying them on the sick person while exclaiming "God these bank statements showing my tithe and offerings are proof of my committment to you now heal this person" Right, I was just in the process of making a post to this effect.
I still think the fact that she spreads her hair over her child is indicative of some erroneous understanding of Scripture. It seems like she was using it almost as a talisman.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 09:50 PM
The underlined portion doesn't explicitely say that the uncut hair is what healed her husband. But it sure looks like she's alluding to that in my opinion. You can read it the way you want to. But when I read it, that was the message that I was hearing her say.
So is this also alluding the idea that if a wife cuts her hair, God will not heal her husband?? Because, reading between the lines, that's what I'm seeing. And to that I'd have to say - bunk! I am living the proof of that. God doesn't heal or not heal based on whether or not a woman cuts her hair.More than you got the same impression Margie.
So is this also alluding the idea that if a wife cuts her hair, God will not heal her husband?? Because, reading between the lines, that's what I'm seeing. And to that I'd have to say - bunk! I am living the proof of that. God doesn't heal or not heal based on whether or not a woman cuts her hair.Please don't go there, Margie. This kind of assuming is what led to the witchcraft garbage.
berkeley
03-17-2007, 09:51 PM
I still think the fact that she spreads her hair over her child is indicative of some erroneous understanding of Scripture. It seems like she was using it almost as a talisman.
Right,
I agree with you, but we can only go by what is written.
berkeley
03-17-2007, 09:51 PM
Please don't go there, Margie. This kind of assuming is what led to the witchcraft garbage.
off topic.. OGIA.. you were a member of prophecy watchers??
Felicity
03-17-2007, 09:52 PM
It would be like me saying ...... "N"ow God you know that I tithe faithfully and so therefore I'm laying these dollar bills and change over my daughter and pray that you will heal her because of my obedience to your Word."
Pretty much the same idea.
A little wonky if you ask me. :nah
we can only go by what is written.That is, of course, unless you want to start some trash about her using her hair to heal and then have that evolve into her practicing witchcraft. That thinking requires reading between the lines and assuming and.........well, that's good enough.
berkeley
03-17-2007, 09:55 PM
It would be like me saying ...... "N"ow God you know that I tithe faithfully and so therefore I'm laying these dollar bills and change over my daughter and pray that you will heal her because of my obedience to your Word."
Pretty much the same idea.
A little wonky if you ask me. :nahWhether admitted to or not, many people remind God of the good deeds they perform as to gain favor with the Lord, or to twist His arm to get something that they want.
JMO
off topic.. OGIA.. you were a member of prophecy watchers??:hmmm Yes, I do believe that was the name of it. Like 3 1/2 years ago?
berkeley
03-17-2007, 09:55 PM
That is, of course, unless you want to start some trash about her using her hair to heal and then have that evolve into her practicing witchcraft. That thinking requires reading between the lines and assuming and.........well, that's good enough.I'm sure there are some that do believe their hair is magical. That is witchcraft, IMO.
berkeley
03-17-2007, 09:56 PM
:hmmm Yes, I do believe that was the name of it. Like 3 1/2 years ago?
Yeah..
Felicity
03-17-2007, 09:57 PM
Whether admitted to or not, many people remind God of the good deeds they perform as to gain favor with the Lord, or to twist His arm to get something that they want.
JMOSure -- Hezekiah did that and got good results! :)
Yeah..I guess so. This is probably the only screen name I've ever used. :tiphat
Right, I was just in the process of making a post to this effect.
I still think the fact that she spreads her hair over her child is indicative of some erroneous understanding of Scripture. It seems like she was using it almost as a talisman.
I agree. I see posts defending that story and others similar to it as simply examples of "faith" but I fear the reality is usually what you have indicated.
I have a feeling that these women see their uncut hair as a bargaining chip with God and also as you mentioned a "magicial" tailsman with power within itself.
I think there is a tolerance for this kind of error in the UPC and old time Pentecost because it reinforces the doctrine of uncut hair on women by glamorizing it.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 09:59 PM
I'm sure there are some that do believe their hair is magical. That is witchcraft, IMO.They would never say their hair is magical.
I think it's more a matter of some messed up thinking in regard to this whole uncut hair/protection of the angels thing.
Like I said earlier it doesn't take much to get led aside into error. This whole thing about "my hair is a veil of protection" is just that.
berkeley
03-17-2007, 09:59 PM
I agree. I see posts defending that story and others similar to it as simply examples of "faith" but I fear the reality is usually what you have indicated.
I have a feeling that these women see their uncut hair as a bargaining chip with God and also as you mentioned a "magicial" tailsman with power within itself.
I think there is a tolerance for this kind of error in the UPC and old time Pentecost because it reinforces the doctrine of uncut hair on women by glamorizing it.
well said
berkeley
03-17-2007, 10:01 PM
They would never say their hair is magical.
I think it's more a matter of some messed up thinking in regard to this whole uncut hair/protection of the angels thing.
Like I said earlier it doesn't take much to get led aside into error. This whole thing about "my hair is a veil of protection" is just that.Right! And error begets error!
Felicity
03-17-2007, 10:01 PM
I agree. I see posts defending that story and others similar to it as simply examples of "faith" but I fear the reality is usually what you have indicated.
I have a feeling that these women see their uncut hair as a bargaining chip with God and also as you mentioned a "magicial" tailsman with power within itself.
I think there is a tolerance for this kind of error in the UPC and old time Pentecost because it reinforces the doctrine of uncut hair on women by glamorizing it. I agree the "tolerance" is there, but I'm trusting that the more conscientious pastors would not let this teaching go uncontested.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 10:02 PM
I guess so. This is probably the only screen name I've ever used. :tiphatSo are you the same person who sent me Hawberry Jelly about 3 years back? I was sure it was you. I asked earlier and you never did answer.
Margies3
03-17-2007, 10:02 PM
Please don't go there, Margie. This kind of assuming is what led to the witchcraft garbage.
well, I guess what I'm trying to figure out is why she thought she should lay her hair on her husband to begin with? Is that supposed to merit some kind of special favor from God just because she hasn't cut her hair? The Bible tells us that "by HIS stripes we are healed." PERIOD. That was the reason for those stripes. It makes me sad to even "think" that somebody tries to manipulate God by pointing out to Him how extra-worthy they are of His favor because of their own actions. (I'm not saying that's what she was thinking. I understand you are going to say that I am reading into what she said again. But again, it reads that way to ME. I guess we're all entitled to our opinions)
The funny thing is that this type of behaviour and belief is not a part of traditional old time Pentecostal uncut hair doctrine.
I think Elder Eplely and other ultra cons or cons who hold to the uncut hair doctrine but not the RR fantas....er.......doctrinal take on it would tell you that they do not have to resort to assigining special powers and angels to uncut hair to teach their view of the neccessity of it.
Scott Hutchinson
03-17-2007, 10:05 PM
Women should look like women and men should look like men.
But just having long uncut hair is not magical ,God honours a person's faith.
Felicity
03-17-2007, 10:06 PM
In all my years in Oneness Pentecost I have never heard of such a thing until just the past few years.
Never did I hear any of the old-time women talk about their hair being a "veil of protection". Never did I ever see them take it down while praying at the altar or while worshiping.
Never did I ever see them laying their hair on the altar or over a child or anything else for that matter.
This is a new thing and it is error - pure and simple!!
The Mrs
03-17-2007, 10:09 PM
OGIA...I don't really understand why you would sit back and accuse these ladies of putting words in Rachel's mouth...Nancy herself has done some 'reading between the lines' right along with most of us here, as she's the one who actually authored this email and is sending it forth, and hoping every Pentecostal lady hears what her long, uncut hair will do for her and her family. :winkgrin
Your long, uncut hair is your glory, your power with the angels, and a covenant between you and the ONE that will supply all your needs. Hopefully, I can get Rachel to write it in her own words soon. It is worthy of repeating and our Pentecostal ladies need to hear it. God is faithful.
Love you all
Nancy Mikesell
Why would every Pentecostal lady need to hear about what her hair will do for her?
What exactly IS it doing for her? :dunno
HeavenlyOne
03-17-2007, 10:46 PM
Cat fight!!!!!! :slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy :slaphappy
Look I personally think that long hair is a glory to the woman, seems Paul said the same. I don't see Paul saying anything about cut hair and hell.
The question that each woman should ask herself is: "How much glory do I want?"
Long hair is a glory to her. It's not God's glory she is growing.
A wife is a glory to the man. The more wives, the more glory? I don't think so.
No wife, no glory? Who cares? One still has the glory of God when they are filled with His Spirit, and that's what really matters. My glory isn't going to get me to heaven.
HeavenlyOne
03-17-2007, 10:48 PM
Did you notice I said the "might apply"?
It just amazes me how a little fire starts a humongous blaze. Well, not really. One person mentions some silly notion that this woman used her hair to heal and it's "off to the races!!" Ends up she's using withcraft.
Reminds me of ... yes ... juveniles.
I'm a little behind in posts, but I hope by the time I catch up, I'll find scriptures from you to support someone using their hair as part of a healing ritual.
Scott Hutchinson
03-17-2007, 10:49 PM
Long hair is a glory to her. It's not God's glory she is growing.
A wife is a glory to the man. The more wives, the more glory? I don't think so.
No wife, no glory? Who cares? One still has the glory of God when they are filled with His Spirit, and that's what really matters. My glory isn't going to get me to heaven.
One wife is enough ,multiple female changes that would kill a guy or run :ignore him batty.
HeavenlyOne
03-17-2007, 10:54 PM
It would be like me saying ...... "N"ow God you know that I tithe faithfully and so therefore I'm laying these dollar bills and change over my daughter and pray that you will heal her because of my obedience to your Word."
Pretty much the same idea.
A little wonky if you ask me. :nah
Instead, lay your skirt over your daughter and tell God how He should honor that you are obeying Deut 22:5.
Make sure that you are alone, however. You might be immodest doing that.
:D
HeavenlyOne
03-17-2007, 10:58 PM
well, I guess what I'm trying to figure out is why she thought she should lay her hair on her husband to begin with? Is that supposed to merit some kind of special favor from God just because she hasn't cut her hair? The Bible tells us that "by HIS stripes we are healed." PERIOD. That was the reason for those stripes. It makes me sad to even "think" that somebody tries to manipulate God by pointing out to Him how extra-worthy they are of His favor because of their own actions. (I'm not saying that's what she was thinking. I understand you are going to say that I am reading into what she said again. But again, it reads that way to ME. I guess we're all entitled to our opinions)
I said pretty much the same thing in another post. Using our own works to get favor from God isn't Biblical in any way.
There aren't varying levels of Christians. Either you are one or you aren't. Either you are a child of God or you aren't.
HeavenlyOne
03-17-2007, 11:00 PM
One wife is enough ,multiple female changes that would kill a guy or run :ignore him batty.
But just think of all the glory you will have!!! LOL!
Scott Hutchinson
03-17-2007, 11:02 PM
I'll have my wife lay her hair on my wallet and 100s will suddenly appear.
Scott Hutchinson
03-17-2007, 11:03 PM
But just think of all the glory you will have!!! LOL!
Multiple nervous breakdowns from all of the menopause.:ignore :ignore :aaa :nah
HeavenlyOne
03-17-2007, 11:09 PM
Multiple nervous breakdowns from all of the menopause.:ignore :ignore :aaa :nah
ROFL! That's too funny!
The funny thing is that this type of behaviour and belief is not a part of traditional old time Pentecostal uncut hair doctrine.
I think Elder Eplely and other ultra cons or cons who hold to the uncut hair doctrine but not the RR fantas....er.......doctrinal take on it would tell you that they do not have to resort to assigining special powers and angels to uncut hair to teach their view of the neccessity of it.
I will tell you CLEARLY that I am 3rd gen Apostolic, do not cut my hair today and this is NOT something familiar to ME!!
It is a ridiculous notion that has infested the Church. As I stated in an earlier post, when a SIL flat out told me that SHE had power in the prayer room that other women did not have simply because she didn't cut her hair, I was shocked.
I repeat that this laying your hair on folks is spooky business...
In all my years in Oneness Pentecost I have never heard of such a thing until just the past few years.
Never did I hear any of the old-time women talk about their hair being a "veil of protection". Never did I ever see them take it down while praying at the altar or while worshiping.
Never did I ever see them laying their hair on the altar or over a child or anything else for that matter.
This is a new thing and it is error - pure and simple!!
Absolutely!!
HeavenlyOne
03-18-2007, 01:18 AM
I will tell you CLEARLY that I am 3rd gen Apostolic, do not cut my hair today and this is NOT something familiar to ME!!
It is a ridiculous notion that has infested the Church. As I stated in an earlier post, when a SIL flat out told me that SHE had power in the prayer room that other women did not have simply because she didn't cut her hair, I was shocked.
I repeat that this laying your hair on folks is spooky business...
I think the teaching came along around the same time RR started writing books. What a coincidence, huh? ;)
Disobedience always carries consequences
Obedience is often rewarded with Blessings
So are you the same person who sent me Hawberry Jelly about 3 years back? I was sure it was you. I asked earlier and you never did answer.Why, yes, I did. Sorry, I didn't see the question. It was probably on those pages I skipped. :largehalo
Disobedience always carries consequences
Obedience is often rewarded with Blessings
Yes, you are absolutely right, but this business is another thing all together, Thad...
Yes, you are absolutely right, but this business is another thing all together, Thad...
Barb, this business has gotten distorted by a few who don't agree with the "uncut hair" doctrine and, subsequently, turned this into a witch hunt.
Once again, here is what the original post said:
"Lord, I made a covenant with you not to cut my hair. My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family. My hair is my glory and power with the angels. And as I lay my hair before you, uncut in obedience to your Word, I am asking you to heal and protect my husband from this disease that has been diagnosed."
Isn't it funny how some read this as someone using a bargaining chip with God, while others read it as calling upon the promises of God? We've certainly all reminded God, in times of need, of how faithful we've been to Him, haven't we? Just because someone doesn't agree that uncut hair on a woman means anything does not give them liberty to conjure up all sorts of silly references to witch craft, etc.
HeavenlyOne
03-18-2007, 11:56 AM
Barb, this business has gotten distorted by a few who don't agree with the "uncut hair" doctrine and, subsequently, turned this into a witch hunt.
Once again, here is what the original post said:
"Lord, I made a covenant with you not to cut my hair. My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family. My hair is my glory and power with the angels. And as I lay my hair before you, uncut in obedience to your Word, I am asking you to heal and protect my husband from this disease that has been diagnosed."
Isn't it funny how some read this as someone using a bargaining chip with God, while others read it as calling upon the promises of God? We've certainly all reminded God, in times of need, of how faithful we've been to Him, haven't we? Just because someone doesn't agree that uncut hair on a woman means anything does not give them liberty to conjure up all sorts of silly references to witch craft, etc.
Why did you highlight that part only? How about this one?
My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family. My hair is my glory and power with the angels.
She says this BEFORE she tells God she's been obedient by not cutting her hair and as she lays her hair on him. Her hair is power with the angels??? Hair is power??? Veil of protection?? Hair is protection???
Did you know that witches believe there is power in their hair also? Think they got that from the Bible too?
Believe your hair has power in any way is nothing short of witchcraft. The healing power we all receive comes from the stripes Jesus received for us. That's all. If that woman was bald and prayed for healing, I believe her husband would have received it all the same. It had NOTHING to do with her hair, as she implies in that post.
Sorry sir, but I'm not swallowing what I'm being fed.
HeavenlyOne
03-18-2007, 11:59 AM
The woman states that she made a covenant with God not to cut her hair. There is certainly nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't mean that in making a covenant with God, one has more bargaining power with God.
If I were to make a covenant with God to only wear clothing made of primary colors, it would be really silly for me to remind God of the covenant I made with him and spread my clothing over someone while stating that my clothing is my glory, power, and hedge of protection over my family. That is witchcraft, plain and simple.
Brother Price
03-18-2007, 01:07 PM
This sister, in her faith, believed that as she had been obedient to the scriptures about cutting of her hair, that the Lord would protect her husband from this spirit of illness.
Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell forevermore. For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved forever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. (Psalms 37:27-28)
Barb, this business has gotten distorted by a few who don't agree with the "uncut hair" doctrine and, subsequently, turned this into a witch hunt.
.
I think you will find that there are plenty of old time Oneness Pentecostals who strongly believe in the uncut hair doctrine that don't believe in the LS and RR power in the hair and extra angels doctrines.
It is error and does not enhance the uncut hair doctrine but rather takes away from it.
I can think of only two reasons so many old time Pentecostals have embraced it. First it reinforces the uncut hair doctrine and gives benefits to it as an extra incentive for women to submit. Second intellectual and theological laziness. Apparently few OP's care about the theological soundness of a speaker and doctrines promoted heavily within their ranks.
HeavenlyOne
03-18-2007, 02:40 PM
This sister, in her faith, believed that as she had been obedient to the scriptures about cutting of her hair, that the Lord would protect her husband from this spirit of illness.
Depart from evil, and do good; and dwell forevermore. For the LORD loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved forever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off. (Psalms 37:27-28)
That reasoning isn't Biblical, even if it were true. Faith is required, not obedience.
Praxeas
03-18-2007, 02:45 PM
Lord, I made a covenant with you not to cut my hair. My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family. My hair is my glory and power with the angels. And as I lay my hair before you, uncut in obedience to your Word, I am asking you to heal and protect my husband from this disease that has been diagnosed."
I find this to be both offensive and unbiblical.
The purpose of that topic of hair was headship. Man came first and is made in His image....why on earth would God give to the woman ONLY this special "protection"?
Second, are singles guys up the creek without a paddle because they don't have a wife with long uncut hair?
Does God curse or remove any protection he has from a family just because one of the women in that family trims her hair?
Im sorry but this teaching is absurd. The bible never teaches to lay hair on them...it says lay hands on them. It never teaches there is supernatural power in her hair nor does it teach it gives her and her family protective covering NOR does it teach she has power WITH the angels.
That is false doctrine and I think a dangerous out. What covers and protects us is His blood....Jesus is my covering. We lay hands on in Jesus name. Not "lay hair on" in the name of some unbiblical covenant of non-cut hair.
What happened or why was not the result of her strands of hair, a covenant or her power with angels. There were many people praying for his person no doubt and seemingly this woman has faith too. She wrongly attributes it to her "glory".
It reminds me of the movie "Wholly Moses" where Dudley Moore is in the right place and the right time but is the wrong person...God is talking to Moses and Moore over hears the conversation and thinks God is speaking to him.
I wonder who many prophets were tossing sticks into the river later on to see if they can get another axehead to float. Correlation is not causation
Praxeas
03-18-2007, 02:48 PM
Exactly...one of my sisters in law told me that she knows she has power in the prayer room because she has not cut her hair. In other words, someone with cut hair can't pray?! She came too late to tell me that one.
I said, "I don't cut mine either, but show me this in Scripture." She couldn't...
That would mean men can't get their prays answered ever.....
Praxeas
03-18-2007, 02:50 PM
So, does EVERY woman who does not cut her hair HAVE TO have a perfectly healthy family everyday of their lives?
How do you know that this specific instance wasn't used by God as a testimony of that covenant she had with Him? You don't, do you?
I think the conclusion you made is silly. Sorry, but I can't think of any other word to use. :tiphat
The bible does not say she has a special covenant with God that is her uncut hair. That is unbiblical nonsense that sounds more like something from the TBN crowd
philjones
03-18-2007, 03:16 PM
The underlined portion doesn't explicitely say that the uncut hair is what healed her husband. But it sure looks like she's alluding to that in my opinion. You can read it the way you want to. But when I read it, that was the message that I was hearing her say.
So is this also alluding the idea that if a wife cuts her hair, God will not heal her husband?? Because, reading between the lines, that's what I'm seeing. And to that I'd have to say - bunk! I am living the proof of that. God doesn't heal or not heal based on whether or not a woman cuts her hair.
MArgie,
You should go to work for US intelligence. You read well what is not written and I am sure your bias does not affect your interpretation of what you read between the lines at all.
It is clear to any 3rd grader that she identified clearly the reason for the spreading of her hair... evidence of her obedience. She then clearly identifies to whom she is praying and from whom she is expecting the miracle.
You and Felicity and Sherri and Renda and all the others have done exactly as Ogia has suggested... you have intentionally misrepresented what is written in order to substantiate and support your uncontrollable desire to justify your position by ridiculing and misrepresenting the position of another.
I love ya'll but you are all way of base in your assessment of this story!:tiphat :tiphat :tiphat
Sherri
03-18-2007, 03:19 PM
MArgie,
You should go to work for US intelligence. You read well what is not written and I am sure your bias does not affect your interpretation of what you read between the lines at all.
It is clear to any 3rd grader that she identified clearly the reason for the spreading of her hair... evidence of her obedience. She then clearly identifies to whom she is praying and from whom she is expecting the miracle.
You and Felicity and Sherri and Renda and all the others have done exactly as Ogia has suggested... you have intentionally misrepresented what is written in order to substantiate and support your uncontrollable desire to justify your position by ridiculing and misrepresenting the position of another.
I love ya'll but you are all way of base in your assessment of this story!:tiphat :tiphat :tiphat
Phil, she said that her hair was protection for her family, and that it was glory and power with the angels. Where in scripture is that? It's totally absurd. It takes away from the power of Jesus.
philjones
03-18-2007, 03:20 PM
It would be like me saying ...... "N"ow God you know that I tithe faithfully and so therefore I'm laying these dollar bills and change over my daughter and pray that you will heal her because of my obedience to your Word."
Pretty much the same idea.
A little wonky if you ask me. :nah
Why, Felicity? There are multiple prayers in the psalms where petitions include a record of obedience on the part of the petitioner. It is indeed Biblical to approach the giver with a citing of the faithful record of the requester.
I will confess that I have at times approached God in a time of need with such an attitude... not to earn anything of Him but to remind Him that I have been faithful. Yes he knows but I still have done it!
I would imagine or guess that most of you have done the same!
Felicity
03-18-2007, 03:21 PM
Felicity has not misrepresented this lady's words or prayer or the post in general. I don't do that and you should know this as well as anybody given the time I've been posting online on the same forums as you. Come on bro. This is not fair.
This woman made the claim in her prayer that her hair was a "veil of protection". She then spread it over her child and called on God to heal her husband.
Sherri
03-18-2007, 03:23 PM
Why, Felicity? There are multiple prayers in the psalms where petitions include a record of obedience on the part of the petitioner. It is indeed Biblical to approach the giver with a citing of the faithful record of the requester.
I will confess that I have at times approached God in a time of need with such an attitude... not to earn anything of Him but to remind Him that I have been faithful. Yes he knows but I still have done it!
I would imagine or guess that most of you have done the same!
I have sometimes "reminded" God of my faithfulness in obedience to His word about finances when I have needed something. But I have not said that there was power or protection in my tithing/offerings. I think there's a big difference.
rgcraig
03-18-2007, 03:25 PM
"My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family. My hair is my glory and power with the angels."
This is what I have a problem with.
Felicity
03-18-2007, 03:30 PM
Why, Felicity? There are multiple prayers in the psalms where petitions include a record of obedience on the part of the petitioner. It is indeed Biblical to approach the giver with a citing of the faithful record of the requester.
I will confess that I have at times approached God in a time of need with such an attitude... not to earn anything of Him but to remind Him that I have been faithful. Yes he knows but I still have done it!
I would imagine or guess that most of you have done the same!I have indeed done the same and alluded to it in another post I made as follows here......
Sure -- Hezekiah did that and got good results! :)
However, I do not believe my hair is a "veil of protection" as this woman believes and I do not spread it over anything or take it down or whatever in order to achieve any specific result.
Now I believe she did what she did because she feels there is some kind of power in the hair. She herself said that her hair gave her "power with the angels". The Bible doesn't teach that hair gives you power over or with anything.
Even when I didn't cut my hair....when it remained uncut .... I never believed that it gave me extra spiritual power with God or angels and I never took it down or spread it over people or an altar or whatever as a symbol of such.
It's ERROR to believe that there is power in hair and that it is a "veil of protection". Pure and simple error.
"My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family. My hair is my glory and power with the angels."
This is what I have a problem with.
As do I...
I have indeed done the same and alluded to it in another post I made as follows here......
However, I do not believe my hair is a "veil of protection" as this woman believes and I do not spread it over anything or take it down or whatever in order to achieve any specific result.
Now I believe she did what she did because she feels there is some kind of power in the hair. She herself said that her hair gave her "power with the angels". The Bible doesn't teach that hair gives you power over or with anything.
Even when I didn't cut my hair....when it remained uncut .... I never believed that it gave me extra spiritual power with God or angels and I never took it down or spread it over people or an altar or whatever as a symbol of such.
It's ERROR to believe that there is power in hair and that it is a "veil of protection". Pure and simple error.
Agreed!!
MArgie,
You should go to work for US intelligence. You read well what is not written and I am sure your bias does not affect your interpretation of what you read between the lines at all.
It is clear to any 3rd grader that she identified clearly the reason for the spreading of her hair... evidence of her obedience. She then clearly identifies to whom she is praying and from whom she is expecting the miracle.
You and Felicity and Sherri and Renda and all the others have done exactly as Ogia has suggested... you have intentionally misrepresented what is written in order to substantiate and support your uncontrollable desire to justify your position by ridiculing and misrepresenting the position of another.
I love ya'll but you are all way of base in your assessment of this story!:tiphat :tiphat :tiphat
Bro. Phil, I am disappointed here...
First, the sisters you mentioned were not alone in their assessment of the incident...I have been a front runner in this discussion as well. Was my name omitted because a.) my hair is uncut so there is no credence to the theory of justifying a position, b.) my points were not worthy of mention, or c.) all of the above?!;) :)
Second, I am not the brightest bulb in this chandelier of brilliance here, Elder, but nothing was misrepresented. The woman said that her hair was a veil of protection...I just don't see that in Scripture.
Praxeas
03-18-2007, 06:07 PM
Rachel's husband was diagnosed with a degenerative nerve disease that is ultimately fatal, no cure. All his test initially were positive for this disease. This disease was very painful, it began in his feet.
Rachel got up one morning after the diagnosis was given to them, she took her long, uncut hair down and laid it over her husband's feet.
She said, "Lord, I made a covenant with you not to cut my hair. My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family.
My hair is my glory and power with the angels.
And as I lay my hair before you, uncut in obedience to your Word, I am asking you to heal and protect my husband from this disease that has been diagnosed."
Your long, uncut hair is your glory, your power with the angels, and a covenant between you and the ONE that will supply all your needs. Hopefully,
I repeat, unbiblical. False doctrine. Even a third grader can understand the points made here.
Where is faith? Where is "in answer to my prayer I believe you for healing"?
I repeat, unbiblical. False doctrine. Even a third grader can understand the points made here.
Where is faith? Where is "in answer to my prayer I believe you for healing"?
:nod
Felicity
03-18-2007, 06:19 PM
I repeat, unbiblical. False doctrine. Even a third grader can understand the points made here.
Where is faith? Where is "in answer to my prayer I believe you for healing"?Ahhhh ...... but Prax, our understanding of what this woman believes were reduced to ....
"How stupid! Juvenile and idiotic might even apply"
Well I say .... :nah :nah :nah
berkeley
03-18-2007, 06:23 PM
Okay, so everything is implied by her comments "My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family." But, she did not say that her hair healed her husband..
*sigh* but to be fair and balanced, I must say... It is my observation that conservatives will side with this hairesy to guard their position on A Woman's Glory: the Long and Short of It
Felicity
03-18-2007, 06:31 PM
Okay, so everything is implied by her comments "My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family." But, she did not say that her hair healed her husband..Well not just by that comment. We've bolded and repeated the parts of her prayer that we felt indicated a warped concept.
No, she didn't say expressly that her hair healed her husband and I don't think anyone here things that she thought her hair healed her husband, but that it gave her prayer leverage.
Why did she spread her hair over the child if she didn't feel hair had anything to do with anything? She did refer to it as a veil of protection. It simply .... is not.
berkeley
03-18-2007, 06:33 PM
Well not just by that comment. We've bolded and repeated the parts of her prayer that we felt indicated a warped concept.
No, she didn't say expressly that her hair healed her husband and I don't think anyone here things that she thought her hair healed her husband, but that it gave her prayer leverage.
Why did she spread her hair over the child if she didn't feel hair had anything to do with anything? She did refer to it as a veil of protection. It simply .... is not.
I do agree with you... Correction: she spred the hair over her husbands feet :)
rgcraig
03-18-2007, 06:42 PM
I do agree with you... Correction: she spred the hair over her husbands feet :)
Correct.
Felicity
03-18-2007, 06:47 PM
I do agree with you... Correction: she spred the hair over her husbands feet :)Right. Thanks for the correction! :)
I was thinking of another woman who prayed for her child and spread her hair over her child. Sorry. Just put it down to little short circuit in the wiring. Happens occasionally even though I try to keep the wiring in good condition. :heeheehee
Well not just by that comment. We've bolded and repeated the parts of her prayer that we felt indicated a warped concept.
No, she didn't say expressly that her hair healed her husband and I don't think anyone here things that she thought her hair healed her husband, but that it gave her prayer leverage.
Why did she spread her hair over the child if she didn't feel hair had anything to do with anything? She did refer to it as a veil of protection. It simply .... is not.
Exactly, as with my SIL, who sincerely believed, and still may because I'm not sure how much influence I have in that department, that her prayers were answered...not so much because He is a prayer answering God, but "because I have power in the prayer room."
berkeley
03-18-2007, 06:50 PM
Exactly, as with my SIL, who sincerely believed, and still may because I'm not sure how much influence I have in that department, that her prayers were answered...not so much because He is a prayer answering God, but "because I have power in the prayer room."....power on her head... because of the angels... right??
berkeley
03-18-2007, 06:51 PM
Correct.:happydance
....power on her head... because of the angels... right??
She is not UPCI and has never heard of RR, but she mentioned evangelists coming to her church saying that the women had power in the prayer room because they had not cut their hair.
When I told her that, first of all, IMO evangelists should not be coming to any church and preaching this stuff, and secondly, I have a very close friend who prays for me on a regular basis and has prayed for specific needs, the prayers have been answered, AND she has cut hair, SIL was shocked!!
I have to keep saying this for those who just pop in a read a single post or two and not the whole thread...I am not cutting my hair, :winkgrin but I see no need in adding extra 'out there' notions that don't have an ounce of biblical accuracy connected to them.
Margies3
03-18-2007, 08:11 PM
She is not UPCI and has never heard of RR,
Barb, I'm just curious. What is "RR"???
She is not UPCI and has never heard of RR,
Barb, I'm just curious. What is "RR"???
Ruth Reider...
Margies3
03-18-2007, 08:20 PM
Ruth Reider...
and she is????
Maybe I'll do an internet search to see what I can find on her. But I have a feeling that whatever it is, I'm not gonna like it - right?
and she is????
Maybe I'll do an internet search to see what I can find on her. But I have a feeling that whatever it is, I'm not gonna like it - right?
Sorry, girl...I wasn't being evasive...just didn't want to insult your intelligence.
Sis. Reider is a UPCI author who was discussed in great detail on FCF and NFCF. Her books speak of the divine protection and all that comes with uncut hair...Newman wrote some articles re this subject.
Margies3
03-18-2007, 08:34 PM
Sorry, girl...I wasn't being evasive...just didn't want to insult your intelligence.
Sis. Reider is a UPCI author who was discussed in great detail on FCF and NFCF. Her books speak of the divine protection and all that comes with uncut hair...Newman wrote some articles re this subject.
Oh no, don't worry, I didn't take it that way. I've just been out of the UPC long enough to not be up-to-date on the latest.
I checked on the net regarding her. I'm not finding alot of support in her corner. Even from people from within the UPC. I find that a bit surprising, altho there probably are more out there than I know about. This is interesting tho.
Pressing-On
03-18-2007, 08:37 PM
Oh no, don't worry, I didn't take it that way. I've just been out of the UPC long enough to not be up-to-date on the latest.
I checked on the net regarding her. I'm not finding alot of support in her corner. Even from people from within the UPC. I find that a bit surprising, altho there probably are more out there than I know about. This is interesting tho.
Margie, you could look here if you want to. We had a very longggggg thread on her at FCF. lol!
http://www.goodnewscafe.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9363&highlight=Ruth+Reider
seguidordejesus
03-18-2007, 08:39 PM
Gettin' that post count up tonight, aren't you, PO? :D
Pressing-On
03-18-2007, 08:43 PM
Gettin' that post count up tonight, aren't you, PO? :D
Lord, don't preach to me. I promised not to be in the top 10 again!
I'M GOING TO BED!!!!!!
:happydance
Margies3
03-18-2007, 09:03 PM
Margie, you could look here if you want to. We had a very longggggg thread on her at FCF. lol!
http://www.goodnewscafe.net/forums/showthread.php?t=9363&highlight=Ruth+Reider
Thank you, PO. I started to read thru that, but will have to save it for tomorrow. I need to get to bed tonight. Interesting tho. Very interesting!!
Pressing-On
03-18-2007, 09:07 PM
Thank you, PO. I started to read thru that, but will have to save it for tomorrow. I need to get to bed tonight. Interesting tho. Very interesting!!
You're welcome, Margie. I didn't read through all of it. I just suppose she is defended more than not and would be a good place to start. lol!
BTW, I don't believe in the "magic hair". You'll note, on the GNC thread, that I posted part of a message by Lee Stoneking. Some have said that he promotes the "magic hair" and I think that is true. By the message I posted you would think he was being contradictory.
HeavenlyOne
03-18-2007, 10:06 PM
Why, Felicity? There are multiple prayers in the psalms where petitions include a record of obedience on the part of the petitioner. It is indeed Biblical to approach the giver with a citing of the faithful record of the requester.
I will confess that I have at times approached God in a time of need with such an attitude... not to earn anything of Him but to remind Him that I have been faithful. Yes he knows but I still have done it!
I would imagine or guess that most of you have done the same!
I'm taking the opportunity to pick at your post because of something you said that I've heard so often, but don't know where it came from.
That is, the idea that God has to be reminded of our faithfulness in something. I just don't get why people do that, as if God might forget or not have realized it.
Not saying that's what you think, I'm just speaking generally of people who make that statement. I don't understand why it's done, that's all.
HeavenlyOne
03-18-2007, 10:09 PM
"My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family. My hair is my glory and power with the angels."
This is what I have a problem with.
Me too.
HeavenlyOne
03-18-2007, 10:11 PM
Right. Thanks for the correction! :)
I was thinking of another woman who prayed for her child and spread her hair over her child. Sorry. Just put it down to little short circuit in the wiring. Happens occasionally even though I try to keep the wiring in good condition. :heeheehee
Sorry for confusing you...LOL!
I mentioned a woman and her son in another post.
Felicity
03-18-2007, 10:58 PM
Sorry for confusing you...LOL!
I mentioned a woman and her son in another post.It wasn't you. I heard it elsewhere and I've never forgotten the story I read about this mother draping her long hair over her child. It always comes to mind whenever this issue raises up.
Praxeas
03-19-2007, 01:04 AM
Okay, so everything is implied by her comments "My hair is a veil of protection for me and my family." But, she did not say that her hair healed her husband..
*sigh* but to be fair and balanced, I must say... It is my observation that conservatives will side with this hairesy to guard their position on A Woman's Glory: the Long and Short of It
Does it imply God healed her husband BECAUSE her long hair gives her and them a "veil or protection and covering"...and that she has power with the angels?
Does it imply God healed her husband BECAUSE her long hair gives her and them a "veil or protection and covering"...and that she has power with the angels?
Ummm...give me a second to think about this...YES!!
Believe your hair has power in any way is nothing short of witchcraft. The healing power we all receive comes from the stripes Jesus received for us. That's all. If that woman was bald and prayed for healing, I believe her husband would have received it all the same. It had NOTHING to do with her hair, as she implies in that post.Statements like this get interspersed into some true statements and then the whole thing turns into a witch hunt.
The lady in question NEVER SAID that her hair would HEAL her husband! She never insinutated that her hair had any HEALING power. As phil stated, she simply reminded God, as the man after God's own heart did on occasion, of her obedience to His word.
Quit adding stuff to what she said and did and it's simple -- the lady asked God to honor her obedience.
The woman states that she made a covenant with God not to cut her hair. There is certainly nothing wrong with that, but it doesn't mean that in making a covenant with God, one has more bargaining power with God.The lady NEVER SAID she had "more bargaining power with God". Once again, statements like this lead to the witch hunt.
Steve Epley
03-19-2007, 08:03 AM
The concept is goofy sounds like something a woman would come up with.:aaa
you have intentionally misrepresented what is written in order to substantiate and support your uncontrollable desire to justify your position by ridiculing and misrepresenting the position of another.
Well, I didn't say it as precise and clear as you, brother! Thanks for the input! :tiphat
Pressing-On
03-19-2007, 08:07 AM
The concept is goofy sounds like something a woman would come up with.:aaa
:killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme :killinme
LaVonne
03-19-2007, 08:10 AM
Statements like this get interspersed into some true statements and then the whole thing turns into a witch hunt.
The lady in question NEVER SAID that her hair would HEAL her husband! She never insinutated that her hair had any HEALING power. As phil stated, she simply reminded God, as the man after God's own heart did on occasion, of her obedience to His word.
Quit adding stuff to what she said and did and it's simple -- the lady asked God to honor her obedience.
The lady NEVER SAID she had "more bargaining power with God". Once again, statements like this lead to the witch hunt.
This is a good post...thank you!
I know I'll receive criticism for this, but I once layed my uncut hair on our son's head and prayed for his healing...out of sheer desperation! We had tried everything and he'd been prayed for many, many times, but the symptoms of childhood epilepsy were coming back and it scared me. So, I simply did it, and while praying reminded God that I had not cut my hair in obedience to His Word, etc.. I do not believe that my hair healed my boy...God did! I think in a desperate situation many of us might do something out of the ordinary to see results!
Steve Epley
03-19-2007, 08:13 AM
This is a good post...thank you!
I know I'll receive criticism for this, but I once layed my uncut hair on our son's head and prayed for his healing...out of sheer desperation! We had tried everything and he'd been prayed for many, many times, but the symptoms of childhood epilepsy were coming back and it scared me. So, I simply did it, and while praying reminded God that I had not cut my hair in obedience to His Word, etc.. I do not believe that my hair healed my boy...God did! I think in a desperate situation many of us might do something out of the ordinary to see results!
I am not saying that some act of faith regardless of what it is may not touch God however it has NOTHING to do with this verse. If this happened I rejoice for the healing and God can use any act of faith.
LaVonne
03-19-2007, 08:15 AM
I am not saying that some act of faith regardless of what it is may not touch God however it has NOTHING to do with this verse. If this happened I rejoice for the healing and God can use any act of faith.
Healing did come, but I give God the glory!!!
Also, this is the only time I've done this.
Pressing-On
03-19-2007, 08:18 AM
This is a good post...thank you!
I know I'll receive criticism for this, but I once layed my uncut hair on our son's head and prayed for his healing...out of sheer desperation! We had tried everything and he'd been prayed for many, many times, but the symptoms of childhood epilepsy were coming back and it scared me. So, I simply did it, and while praying reminded God that I had not cut my hair in obedience to His ord, etc.. I do not believe that my hair healed my boy...God did! I think in a desperate situation many of us might do something out of the ordinary to see results!
CareyM,
I've done the same thing - out of desperation. I know it was my faith that saw me through and not my hair.
I've debated the whole scripture interpretation, and why not? I think I was looking for some explanation that hit me. After it was all over I never did.
Where I stand is that I am in a church that upholds that doctrine and until the Lord, if He does, moves me I will follow the "uncut" hair.
I don't condemn them that cut their hair. It's between them and God.
The Lord has never shown me anything about it, but has about the Godhead, Baptism, speaking in tongues and other subjects. So, I guess I will always wonder what it really means.
This is a good post...thank you!
I know I'll receive criticism for this, but I once layed my uncut hair on our son's head and prayed for his healing...out of sheer desperation! We had tried everything and he'd been prayed for many, many times, but the symptoms of childhood epilepsy were coming back and it scared me. So, I simply did it, and while praying reminded God that I had not cut my hair in obedience to His Word, etc.. I do not believe that my hair healed my boy...God did! I think in a desperate situation many of us might do something out of the ordinary to see results!
I am not saying that some act of faith regardless of what it is may not touch God however it has NOTHING to do with this verse. If this happened I rejoice for the healing and God can use any act of faith.
Healing did come, but I give God the glory!!!
Also, this is the only time I've done this.
Carey, I certainly do not think you are into spooky stuff and am grateful that God honored your faith. I see nothing wrong with reminding God of obedience.
However, the emailed reason for this thread as well as my experience with folks have led me to be cautious of these things.
For the brothers to state that this is a witch hunt is totally unfair to the godly women here who have voiced oposition.
God bless you, girl...
LaVonne
03-19-2007, 08:22 AM
CareyM,
I've done the same thing - out of desperation. I know it was my faith that saw me through and not my hair.
I've debated the whole scripture interpretation, and why not? I think I was looking for some explanation that hit me. After it was all over I never did.
Where I stand is that I am in a church that upholds that doctrine and until the Lord, if He does, moves me I will follow the "uncut" hair.
I don't condemn them that cut their hair. It's between them and God.
The Lord has never shown me anything about it, but has about the Godhead, Baptism, speaking in tongues and other subjects. So, I guess I will always wonder what it really means.
Whew! Glad to hear I'm not the only one!
I've always believed (the 16 yrs I've been Apostolic) that a woman should have uncut hair, but it wasn't until these past couple of years that my husband and I thoroughly studied the scripture to see what the Bible really says about it. We still believe it! However, there are some scriptures, like the one being discussed on this thread that I'm not entirely sure about.
LadyChocolate
03-19-2007, 08:24 AM
I don't have a big issue with it..... FAITH moves God..... I don't really care how you express your faith... I have seen weirder things in the pentecostal realm.... some believe that when they lay their wallets on the altar, that God will bless their finances......IT is an act of faith.... some believe when they put pictures of loved ones on the altar that God is going to save them, it is an ACT of faith..... God honors faith........ I don't have a problem with a woman acting in faith from what she's been taught concerning her hair..... However, I feel sooo sorry for people who try to tear down anothers faith........ don't stand in someone's way. When people act on faith, don't knock it..... If their is a problem, God is going to let them know.
I am not into all this mysticism about the hair, but nor am I into knocking someone because they act in faith..........
LaVonne
03-19-2007, 08:24 AM
Carey, I certainly do not think you are into spooky stuff and am grateful that God honored your faith. I see nothing wrong with reminding God of obedience.
However, the emailed reason for this thread as well as my experience with folks have led me to be cautious of these things.
For the brothers to state that this is a witch hunt is totally unfair to the godly women here who have voiced oposition.
God bless you, girl...
Thank you Barb!
I understand your caution and concern...we really must have balance! I don't understand it all and probably will not until I see Jesus face to face and have a chance to ask Him about it some sweet day! ;)
Pressing-On
03-19-2007, 08:25 AM
Whew! Glad to hear I'm not the only one!
I've always believed (the 16 yrs I've been Apostolic) that a woman should have uncut hair, but it wasn't until these past couple of years that my husband and I thoroughly studied the scripture to see what the Bible really says about it. We still believe it! However, there are some scriptures, like the one being discussed on this thread that I'm not entirely sure about.
I've always wondered why God hasn't spoken to me particularly about it when He has on so many important issues. I think that's why I've debated and discussed it in the past.
I was totally desperate that day. And of course, if we are taught this, we are going to do whatever when we are desperate. I just came away from it knowing that my faith was more important than anything and that He never left me during that hard trial.
I remember my sisters talking me into the prayer cloth thing. We put it under my father's mattress and prayed and fasted for a long time for him. He died lost. I don't hold much with prayer cloths unless the Lord actually lays that on your heart. I feel the same about Faith Promise.
This is a good post...thank you!
I know I'll receive criticism for this, but I once layed my uncut hair on our son's head and prayed for his healing...out of sheer desperation! We had tried everything and he'd been prayed for many, many times, but the symptoms of childhood epilepsy were coming back and it scared me. So, I simply did it, and while praying reminded God that I had not cut my hair in obedience to His Word, etc.. I do not believe that my hair healed my boy...God did! I think in a desperate situation many of us might do something out of the ordinary to see results!
LOL!! Your sweet spirit stopped me, 'cause I was fixing to send off a post to brotherman...thank the Lord for ya, girl!!
Don't want to argue...this is my thankful day!!:winkgrin
LaVonne
03-19-2007, 08:27 AM
I've always wondered why God hasn't spoken to me particularly about it when He has on so many important issues. I think that's why I've debated and discussed it in the past.
I was totally desperate that day. And of course, if we are taught this, we are going to do whatever when we are desperate. I just came away from it knowing that my faith was more important than anything and that He never left me during that hard trial.
I totally understand!!!!
LaVonne
03-19-2007, 08:28 AM
LOL!! Your sweet spirit stopped me, 'cause I was fixing to send off a post to brotherman...thank the Lord for ya, girl!!
Don't want to argue...this is my thankful day!!:winkgrin
I'm thankful I did something right today!
I'm tired of arguing on the forum, so sometimes I stay away! LOL However, I felt I should say a little something.
Pressing-On
03-19-2007, 08:31 AM
I don't have a big issue with it..... FAITH moves God..... I don't really care how you express your faith... I have seen weirder things in the pentecostal realm.... some believe that when they lay their wallets on the altar, that God will bless their finances......IT is an act of faith.... some believe when they put pictures of loved ones on the altar that God is going to save them, it is an ACT of faith..... God honors faith........ I don't have a problem with a woman acting in faith from what she's been taught concerning her hair..... However, I feel sooo sorry for people who try to tear down anothers faith........ don't stand in someone's way. When people act on faith, don't knock it..... If their is a problem, God is let them know.
I am not into all this mysticism about the hair, but nor am I into standing into knocking someone because they act in faith..........
Lady Chocolate! We actually had a prayer service, just recently, where our pastor felt impressed to have the men come up with their wallets. In this last month my husband has received a $7 increase in his wages along with a promotion.
I think God does strange things, but we must make sure that we are following his directive and not our desires.
Who would have thought spitting in the mud and rubbing that in someone's eyes would take the blindness away? I've always wondered why Jesus didn't just touch his eyes and he would see.
ForeverBlessed
03-19-2007, 08:33 AM
If her hair was a veil of protection then he would never have gotten sick in the first place -- there would have been no need of diagnosis.
Forget the hair. Mark it down to faith possibly.
She has been taught this RR hair doctrine that your hair provides protection from bad things happening to you.
Explain that to all the women who have never cut their hair but who have had catastrophic events take place in their homes, in their own families and their own personal lives.
right... and explain that to one who did make a vow... I left the hair untouched for 4 years... praying everyday...reminding God of that vow..and when the very thing that I was praying for protection against... happened.. I was devastated.
I agree with you Felicity.... the healing came from Faith in God.
Every time I read a story like this I get sick to my stomach... and that time in my life comes flooding back. :ignore
Pressing-On
03-19-2007, 08:34 AM
right... and explain that to one who did make a vow... I left the hair untouched for 4 years... praying everyday...reminding God of that vow..and when the very thing that I was praying for happened.. I was devastated.
I agree with you Felicity.... the healing came from Faith in God.
Every time I read a story like this I get sick to my stomach... and that time in my life comes flooding back. :ignore
I understand Foreverblessed. I feel the same way about the Prayer Cloths after my father died lost. I don't think I would ever participate in that again.
Well, frankly I am a lititle surprised that we don't know Rachel's last name and haven't read about it elsewhere. Makes you wonder about this anonymous couple attending one of the largest churches... Pentecostal Urban Legend? :cool:
Exactly!
folks, there are a few things everyone should remember...if you get an email that starts off with
"I got this email from a friend...." That means the email's chances of being truthfull are about 1%. I dont care what the nature of the email is.
I would be extrememly shocked if this turned out to hav actually happened. more likely, the person who sent the email, if questioned, actually got an email from someone else...that they trusted.
rgcraig
03-19-2007, 08:46 AM
The concept is goofy sounds like something a woman would come up with.:aaa
LOL!!!! Too funny! However, I bet a man gave her the idea...........
Pressing-On
03-19-2007, 08:50 AM
LOL!!!! Too funny! However, I bet a man gave her the idea...........
Renda!!!!!!! Hilarious and you are probably right!!!!
:happydance :happydance
Statements like this get interspersed into some true statements and then the whole thing turns into a witch hunt.
The lady in question NEVER SAID that her hair would HEAL her husband! She never insinutated that her hair had any HEALING power. As phil stated, she simply reminded God, as the man after God's own heart did on occasion, of her obedience to His word.
Quit adding stuff to what she said and did and it's simple -- the lady asked God to honor her obedience.
The lady NEVER SAID she had "more bargaining power with God". Once again, statements like this lead to the witch hunt.
OGIA, as much as you are accusing others of telling a half truth, you are as well! good grief, the EMAIL (I refuse to believe this email is real) stated that the woman told GOD her hair was a VEIL OF PROTECTION.
are you denying that?
Pressing-On
03-19-2007, 08:52 AM
OGIA, as much as you are accusing others of telling a half truth, you are as well! good grief, the EMAIL (I refuse to believe this email is real) stated that the woman told GOD her hair was a VEIL OF PROTECTION.
are you denying that?Ferd,
Even if the e-mail wasn't real we have been taught that. I was taught that in every church I've been in.
Steve Epley
03-19-2007, 08:53 AM
OGIA, as much as you are accusing others of telling a half truth, you are as well! good grief, the EMAIL (I refuse to believe this email is real) stated that the woman told GOD her hair was a VEIL OF PROTECTION.
are you denying that?
Women have TOLD God and men many things like men, God doesn't pay much attention to it.:aaa
rgcraig
03-19-2007, 08:54 AM
Ferd,
Even if the e-mail wasn't real we have been taught that. I was taught that in every church I've been in.
For real?
I have NEVER heard this ever.....until lately.
Pressing-On
03-19-2007, 08:54 AM
Women have TOLD God and men many things like men, God doesn't pay much attention to it.:aaa
You're the Bomb, Brother Epley!! :toofunny :toofunny :toofunny
Ferd,
Even if the e-mail wasn't real we have been taught that. I was taught that in every church I've been in.
thank God I have somehow avoided silliy nonsensical reliogous dogma. I wish people would stick to bible.
MrsMcD
03-19-2007, 08:55 AM
Ferd,
Even if the e-mail wasn't real we have been taught that. I was taught that in every church I've been in.
I'm just a little confused now about what I was taught about hair. I was taught that uncut hair was a sign for the angels. Maybe that also meant that it was a protection. I really don't know. I don't remember hearing about the "veil of protection" until the RR book.
Pressing-On
03-19-2007, 08:55 AM
For real?
I have NEVER heard this ever.....until lately.
Yes, Renda. I was taught the "magic hair", although they didn't state it that way.
We were taught if you cut, trim or even think about it the protection over your family was gone and you would wreck havoc. It was very scary!
You think my Catholic upbringing was scary! lol!
Women have TOLD God and men many things like men, God doesn't pay much attention to it.:aaa
There is nobody better than Elder Epley! AMEN!
rgcraig
03-19-2007, 08:57 AM
Yes, Renda. I was taught the "magic hair", although they didn't state it that way.
We were taught if you cut, trim or even think about it the protection over your family was gone and you would wreck havoc. It was very scary!
You think my Catholic upbringing was scary! lol!You've had a lot to overcome for sure! :slaphappy
Pressing-On
03-19-2007, 08:58 AM
I'm just a little confused now about what I was taught about hair. I was taught that uncut hair was a sign for the angels. Maybe that also meant that it was a protection. I really don't know. I don't remember hearing about the "veil of protection" until the RR book.
I don't remember being aware of RR, just that the "uncut hair" was a protection over myself and my family. I think we were influenced by Lee Stoneking, if I am remembering right.
I was also taught that "touch not mine anointed" was only attributed to the pastor. One pastor said it was also for his family. lol! The Lord did show me that error as a new convert, BUT, He has never said a word to me about the hair.
I'm just a little confused now about what I was taught about hair. I was taught that uncut hair was a sign for the angels. Maybe that also meant that it was a protection. I really don't know. I don't remember hearing about the "veil of protection" until the RR book.
she wasnt the first to come up with it, she was the first to 'codify' it.
I have a really bad thing to say that I just cant bring myself to say on this subject....
but least anyone think, I join the libs, suggesting that there is no mandate in scripture concerning hair, you would be wrong.
Pressing-On
03-19-2007, 09:00 AM
You've had a lot to overcome for sure! :slaphappy
I drank a Dr. Pepper this morning. I feel convicted.
I'm restless because my husband and son are working 7/12's! I don't know what to do with myself except to spend his money! LOL!
rgcraig
03-19-2007, 09:00 AM
I drank a Dr. Pepper this morning. I feel convicted.
I'm restless because my husband and son are working 7/12's! I don't know what to do with myself except to spend his money! LOL!
Make candles!
You can send me the rejects that aren't worthy of selling - - lol!!!!
Can we get back to what is important here? sending fake emails with gobbldy good is stupid!
Pressing-On
03-19-2007, 09:01 AM
thank God I have somehow avoided silliy nonsensical reliogous dogma. I wish people would stick to bible.
That would work for me as well. I've laid the Bible open on my bed many times through the years and said, "I know nothing unless you tell me!"
Pressing-On
03-19-2007, 09:02 AM
Can we get back to what is important here? sending fake emails with gobbldy good is stupid!
Ferd,
Again, the fake e-mail really isn't the issue. This doctrine has been taught and it's what we are discussing. :D
Pressing-On
03-19-2007, 09:03 AM
Make candles!
You can send me the rejects that aren't worthy of selling - - lol!!!!
I'm switching my wax supplier and I am on hold for a few days. I better go to town. No, I better not. I've spent enough this weekend.
rgcraig
03-19-2007, 09:07 AM
Can we get back to what is important here? sending fake emails with gobbldy good is stupid!
Okay.....yes, it is stupid.
Opening the Bible and standing on the promises of God works for me!
MrsMcD
03-19-2007, 09:10 AM
I have a friend whose husband had been alcohol free for 20+ years. She had recently trimmed her hair (barely) and she blamed herself for her husband having alcohol. She was getting a perm and the stylist talked her into trimming the ends. She had not cut her hair since she had been saved which was 20+ years.
I remember being shocked thinking how could this lady blame herself for her husband having alcohol. Would God blame her for his sin because she trimmed her hair? It doesn't make sense to me.
OGIA, as much as you are accusing others of telling a half truth, you are as well! good grief, the EMAIL (I refuse to believe this email is real) stated that the woman told GOD her hair was a VEIL OF PROTECTION.
are you denying that?Well, Ferd, for starters, I've not even addressed that comment, so if you can show me where I said I agreed with that belief, I'll discuss it.
NOW.......it is my belief, through study (scripture and others' writings) and sermons, that this is true. Is she and her family MORE protected? I don't know. You don't have to agree, but I think there is a blessing that comes with a woman not cutting her hair (a born-again child of God woman, that is). So, I really don't see me telling a half-truth. But, I'm listening....... :tiphat
rgcraig
03-19-2007, 09:14 AM
I have a friend whose husband had been alcohol free for 20+ years. She had recently trimmed her hair (barely) and she blamed herself for her husband having alcohol. She was getting a perm and the stylist talked her into trimming the ends. She had not cut her hair since she had been saved which was 20+ years.
I remember being shocked thinking how could this lady blame herself for her husband having alcohol. Would God blame her for his sin because she trimmed her hair? It doesn't make sense to me.
So since she recently trimmed her hair has he begun drinking again, is that what you are saying?
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