View Full Version : Teacher cuts girls hair without permission
James Griffin
05-10-2008, 10:31 AM
(Thanks Apostolic Report)
http://www.click2houston.com/news/16211187/detail.html
Teacher Accused Of Cutting Student's Hair
By Elizabeth Scarborough
POSTED: 8:11 am CDT May 9, 2008
HOUSTON -- A teacher has been accused of cutting a student's hair during class, KPRC Local 2 reported Thursday.
Emily Garcia, 14, said the teacher blatantly ignored her religious beliefs.
"It's unique to me. It's what I'm known for," Emily said. "No one in school has hair like mine."
Her mother, Sara Garcia, braids Emily's hair every morning.
"It's never been trimmed," said Garcia. "Even as a baby, nothing."
"My friends ask, does it bother me?" said Emily. "I say, 'You get used to it.'"
As a Pentecostal, not cutting her hair part of Emily's religion.
"This is something, a promise my daughter made to God, not to cut her hair," said Garcia.
Emily said her math teacher, Kerry Sorenson, would not let her keep that promise.
"She always told me, since school started, she wanted to cut it. She didn't like it," said Emily.
Emily said Sorenson cut her hair during math class at Grantham School for Engineering at about 2 p.m. Wednesday.
"She just snipped it off," said Emily. "She started to laugh. I started to cry."
Emily estimated that about 7 inches were cut.
"I can't believe she cut my daughter's hair," said Garcia. "I never even touched it."
Aldine Independent School District officials said they are investigating the allegation. Sorenson has been directed to not report to school until the investigation is completed, officials said.
Garcia said she wants more.
"I want answers. I want to know why," she said.
Aldine ISD officials said Sorenson has worked for the district for 18 years, and they have never had any problems with her in the past.
Cindy
05-10-2008, 10:39 AM
That is scary in more ways than one.
The Mrs
05-10-2008, 10:45 AM
How ignorant can that teacher be? :uhoh
When I was living with the belief that I had to keep my hair uncut to be pleasing to God, I would have been DEVASTED if that had happened to my daughter.
To cry would be an understatement...I would have been wailing! :sad
Pressing-On
05-10-2008, 10:47 AM
I'd need more information on the story. How does a "14 year old" sit still against their will? Just wondering.........
James Griffin
05-10-2008, 10:51 AM
Some things cannot be undone.
In this case the child's hair had been untouched since birth.
School district better pray than parents have stronger feelings of agape than greed, IMHO slam dunk for intentional infliction of emotional distress. $
Pressing-On
05-10-2008, 10:53 AM
Some things cannot be undone.
In this case the child's hair had been untouched since birth.
School district better pray than parents have stronger feelings of agape than greed, IMHO slam dunk for intentional infliction of emotional distress. $
James,
The article doesn't explain how she was in a position to have her hair cut. 7 inches is quite a bit in a classroom that probably doesn't have a broom and dustpan.
I would have to have more information.
James Griffin
05-10-2008, 10:54 AM
I'd need more information on the story. How does a "14 year old" sit still against their will? Just wondering.........
Pressing watch the video that is attached to the link.
Girl says she was working with a group of students, teacher came up behind her with scissors and and cut her braid.
Pressing-On
05-10-2008, 10:56 AM
Pressing watch the video that is attached to the link.
Girl says she was working with a group of students, teacher came up behind her with scissors and and cut her braid.
Okay, I just saw that, sorry. I'll watch it.
mizpeh
05-10-2008, 10:59 AM
This girl was violated in more ways than one!
Definitely would push my button if it were my daughter!
Belief or no belief, you don't touch another person whom you have no business touching!
Cindy
05-10-2008, 11:09 AM
Definitely would push my button if it were my daughter!
Belief or no belief, you don't touch another person whom you have no business touching!
I believe it may be considered assault.
If it were my daughter, and we practiced the uncut hair thing, I'd sue. Who does that teacher think she is?
I believe it may be considered assault.
It isn't considered in this case--it is.
Cindy
05-10-2008, 11:14 AM
If it were my daughter, and we practiced the uncut hair thing, I'd sue. Who does that teacher think she is?
It doesn't really matter why she had uncut hair.
bethola
05-10-2008, 11:46 AM
It isn't considered in this case--it is.
My thoughts EXACTLY! I can't remember where this family is, but, in the Commonwealth of Kentucky the teacher could lose her teaching certification BESIDES being prosecuted. If it were MY daughter....I'd prosecute to the fullest extent of the law.
Beth
Pressing-On
05-10-2008, 11:49 AM
I'm still waiting to hear the outcome of the investigation. The story is just weird. :D
The daughter has long hair according to her "religion", but her mother doesn't. Looks like a dysfunctional Pentecostal family. Sorry. The mother is adamant about her daughter's hair, but doesn't keep the same religious belief.
I'll wait on the upcoming story.
The Mrs
05-10-2008, 12:00 PM
I'm still waiting to hear the outcome of the investigation. The story is just weird. :D
The daughter has long hair according to her "religion", but her mother doesn't. Looks like a dysfunctional Pentecostal family. Sorry. The mother is adamant about her daughter's hair, but doesn't keep the same religious belief.
I'll wait on the upcoming story.
How did you come to this conclusion? By how she looks in the video?
There's always the possibility that her hair is short for other reasons other than cutting it. Heredity, cancer. :dunno
Pressing-On
05-10-2008, 12:07 PM
How did you come to this conclusion? By how she looks in the video?
There's always the possibility that her hair is short for other reasons other than cutting it. Heredity, cancer. :dunno
My impression of her mother's little "crocodile tears". Just an impression. I could be wrong. We shall see. :D
The story is too weird to go on a "14 year olds" account alone. JMHO. :D
The Mrs
05-10-2008, 12:09 PM
My impression of her mother's little "crocodile tears". Just an impression. I could be wrong. We shall see. :D
The story is too weird to go on a "14 year olds" account alone. JMHO. :D
Surely she wouldn't lie about it with a table full of students there to witness it. :dunno
Sister Alvear
05-10-2008, 12:11 PM
strange story...wonder if it is true? Do we have a way of fainding out?
Pressing-On
05-10-2008, 12:12 PM
Surely she wouldn't lie about it with a table full of students there to witness it. :dunno
You would hope not. What about that recent account of the "white" girl being attacked by the "Mexican" boys at her school? It ended up not being true.
Just saying....
You would hope not. What about that recent account of the "white" girl being attacked by the "Mexican" boys at her school? It ended up not being true.
Just saying....
And then there is the case of the Sweet, Kind Canadian Brother facing persecution from others on AFF just because he is....... Canadian!!!!:reaction
Pressing-On
05-10-2008, 12:17 PM
And then there is the case of the Sweet, Kind Canadian Brother facing persecution from others on AFF just because he is....... Canadian!!!!:reaction
Go play in some Maple leaves, Homie!
:bliss:bliss
Go play in some Maple leaves, Homie!
:bliss:bliss
I had pancakes this morning with warm maple syrup, that count?:happydance
I'm still waiting to hear the outcome of the investigation. The story is just weird. :D
The daughter has long hair according to her "religion", but her mother doesn't. Looks like a dysfunctional Pentecostal family. Sorry. The mother is adamant about her daughter's hair, but doesn't keep the same religious belief.
I'll wait on the upcoming story.
PO, if one of my daughters decided to observe the uncut hair belief I would totally stand behind her, regardless of my personal feelings about the teaching. That would most certainly NOT make us a disfunctional Pentecostal family by any stretch.
PO, if one of my daughters decided to observe the uncut hair belief I would totally stand behind her, regardless of my personal feelings about the teaching. That would most certainly NOT make us a dysfunctional Pentecostal family by any stretch.
What would?:hmmm
Pressing-On
05-10-2008, 12:28 PM
PO, if one of my daughters decided to observe the uncut hair belief I would totally stand behind her, regardless of my personal feelings about the teaching. That would most certainly NOT make us a disfunctional Pentecostal family by any stretch.
Rico,
In my experience, through the years, it usually does mean it's dysfunctional. Sorry, that's my stereotypical remark for the day! :D
What would?:hmmm
If there were differences on things like the salvation doctrine. Something like hair, which I believe falls under personal convictions, is not something that would make a family dysfunctional.
Rico,
In my experience, through the years, it usually does mean it's dysfunctional. Sorry, that's my stereotypical remark for the day! :D
Well, you are most certainly within your rights to be WRONG!!! :boxing
If there were differences on things like the salvation doctrine. Something like hair, which I believe falls under personal convictions, is not something that would make a family dysfunctional.
Cuz my philosophy is this, every family is dysfunctional--some are just more dysfunctional than others!:hypercoffee
Pressing-On
05-10-2008, 12:38 PM
Well, you are most certainly within your rights to be WRONG!!! :boxing
You're just jealous!!!
:toofunny:toofunny
Pressing-On
05-10-2008, 12:39 PM
Cuz my philosophy is this, every family is dysfunctional--some are just more dysfunctional than others!:hypercoffee
Yep, that's what your wife was telling me!
:bliss
Yep, that's what your wife was telling me!
:bliss
What, that she is dysfunctional?:happydance
Pressing-On
05-10-2008, 12:40 PM
What, that she is dysfunctional?:happydance
Not exactly....... Hehehehehhehe
Mrs. LPW
05-10-2008, 12:48 PM
Wow.
Hair cutting aside... if any teacher touched my child in anyway, with a pair of scissors, their hand or any other object I would be LIVID.
Cindy
05-10-2008, 02:49 PM
Wow.
Hair cutting aside... if any teacher touched my child in anyway, with a pair of scissors, their hand or any other object I would be LIVID.
Yep, and I would no doubt be facing jail time.
Cindy
05-10-2008, 02:51 PM
I am really surprised there aren't cameras in classrooms now. I imagine in some schools there are.
AmazingGrace
05-10-2008, 03:26 PM
I know all of my kids schools have them (well except for the church school)
And my youngest daughters school actually has a 70 in plasma mounted to the wall in the office and it scans from room to room continually w 4 cameras in each room... I can stand in the office and see if she is working without even going to the classroom.
Mrs. LPW
05-10-2008, 03:31 PM
Yep, and I would no doubt be facing jail time.
lol
Mrs. LPW
05-10-2008, 03:33 PM
I know all of my kids schools have them (well except for the church school)
And my youngest daughters school actually has a 70 in plasma mounted to the wall in the office and it scans from room to room continually w 4 cameras in each room... I can stand in the office and see if she is working without even going to the classroom.
Good idea really. That way if there is ever dispute it protects both the teachers from false accusation and the students from harm. It would also come in handy for showing the parents that "yes, Little Tommy DOES hit Susie with his ruler"
I know all of my kids schools have them (well except for the church school)
And my youngest daughters school actually has a 70 in plasma mounted to the wall in the office and it scans from room to room continually w 4 cameras in each room... I can stand in the office and see if she is working without even going to the classroom.
See, that just blows me away!
In the US the land of the free??? You have cameras in the classroom???
Not in Canada---yet.
Two years ago the Vancouver police wanted to put in cameras all over downtown Vancouver & there was a hue & cry over it about civil liberties being infringed upon that they backed down.
So much for Canuckastan north!
Anyone ever read George Orwell's 1984?
Ever heard the term Big Brother?
Cindy
05-10-2008, 03:55 PM
See, that just blows me away!
In the US the land of the free??? You have cameras in the classroom???
Not in Canada---yet.
Two years ago the Vancouver police wanted to put in cameras all over downtown Vancouver & there was a hue & cry over it about civil liberties being infringed upon that they backed down.
So much for Canuckastan north!
Anyone ever read George Orwell's 1984?
Ever heard the term Big Brother?
I would much rather have a camera in a classroom and know that children are safe than not. And even in our small town we have cameras on our traffic lights. It takes a picture of your license plate if you run a red light, they can send you a ticket in the mail. In some instances have shown accidents as well.
Sherri
05-10-2008, 04:47 PM
Our church has cameras in each kid's classroom. We have monitors in the foyer that show each room and what's going on. It helps parents to feel secure about leaving their children.
MissBrattified
05-10-2008, 04:56 PM
My impression of her mother's little "crocodile tears". Just an impression. I could be wrong. We shall see. :D
The story is too weird to go on a "14 year olds" account alone. JMHO. :D
Why are you so skeptical? LOL!!! I thought the mother seemed genuinely upset. I know I would be, if I was in her shoes. I would be FURIOUS if anyone cut my daughter's hair without permission, regardless of why its long. And especially if its for religious reasons.
Whether the mother cuts her hair or not is irrelevant. Furthermore, if there was any legitimate dispute of the events, I think they would have already reported it or the school would have responded.
That would be like a teacher ripping a headcovering off of a muslim student. Or jerking a crucifix off the neck of a Catholic student. It's crossing a personal boundary, no matter how you look at it.
If the girl doesn't want her hair cut, then I think the mother should be commended for respecting her wishes, even if she doesn't hold that conviction herself. That isn't dysfunctional. In our home, we (the parents) set the bar, but our children are welcome to exceed them.
Pressing-On
05-10-2008, 05:01 PM
Why are you so skeptical? LOL!!! I thought the mother seemed genuinely upset. I know I would be, if I was in her shoes. I would be FURIOUS if anyone cut my daughter's hair without permission, regardless of why its long. And especially if its for religious reasons.
Whether the mother cuts her hair or not is irrelevant. Furthermore, if there was any legitimate dispute of the events, I think they would have already reported it or the school would have responded.
That would be like a teacher ripping a headcovering off of a muslim student. Or jerking a crucifix off the neck of a Catholic student. It's crossing a personal boundary, no matter how you look at it.
If the girl doesn't want her hair cut, then I think the mother should be commended for respecting her wishes, even if she doesn't hold that conviction herself. That isn't dysfunctional. In our home, we (the parents) set the bar, but our children are welcome to exceed them.
Did you think the mother was genuinely upset? Okay. I am skeptical. A tone in her voice that I've heard before. Perhaps I am too suspicious. :D
I am thinking that this teacher has some time put in toward retirement and why would she jeopardize that for a hair cut? I could see her doing it for sex, but not a hair cut. Just saying with all the other lawsuits against teachers. It's mainly been the sex, which frankly, not an excuse, but that is a more engrossing element to deal with than a simple haircut.
The story is just weird. I want to know more.
BTW, nice to see you posting. Haven't seen you as often! :friend
Whole Hearted
05-10-2008, 05:23 PM
Good reason to keep our children out of public school.
Cindy
05-10-2008, 06:49 PM
I agree Whole Hearted, if you can. Good to see you posting.
Hoovie
05-10-2008, 10:10 PM
Just on the surface I think the severity of this crime may be huge. If the teacher had knowledg concerning the religious symbolism involved she quite possibly is looking at jail time.
Hoovie
05-10-2008, 10:13 PM
Why are you so skeptical? LOL!!! I thought the mother seemed genuinely upset. I know I would be, if I was in her shoes. I would be FURIOUS if anyone cut my daughter's hair without permission, regardless of why its long. And especially if its for religious reasons.
Whether the mother cuts her hair or not is irrelevant. Furthermore, if there was any legitimate dispute of the events, I think they would have already reported it or the school would have responded.
That would be like a teacher ripping a headcovering off of a muslim student. Or jerking a crucifix off the neck of a Catholic student. It's crossing a personal boundary, no matter how you look at it.
If the girl doesn't want her hair cut, then I think the mother should be commended for respecting her wishes, even if she doesn't hold that conviction herself. That isn't dysfunctional. In our home, we (the parents) set the bar, but our children are welcome to exceed them.
Much more serious in my opinion... seeing that there is a significance in having it uncut since birth.
I'd need more information on the story. How does a "14 year old" sit still against their will? Just wondering.........
Since the beginning of the school year the teacher had been threatening to cut her hair. She was working on something the teacher came up behind her and picked up her braid and threatened to cut it. She thought the teacher was joking then she her the snip. She began to cry. The teacher began to laugh.
Pressing-On
05-11-2008, 06:35 AM
Since the beginning of the school year the teacher had been threatening to cut her hair. She was working on something the teacher came up behind her and picked up her braid and threatened to cut it. She thought the teacher was joking then she her the snip. She began to cry. The teacher began to laugh.
So says the teenager. I'm not saying it didn't happen, but we haven't heard from the teacher yet. I want to hear the other side to get the whole picture.
Sister Alvear
05-11-2008, 08:11 AM
am anxious to hear the rest of the story...
Servant82
05-19-2008, 11:47 AM
There must be more witnesses than one. This is Biblical justice. People are quick to antagonize Mrs. Sorenson. But look at her history. She has earned a teacher of the year award. This girl who makes this claim is just one witness. Why does her mother have short streaked blond hair? Why is she suing the school system and Mrs. Sorenson for money? I'm skeptical and I think the media is being far
too biased as they tend to. Why sensationalize this? We as Christians should seek justice and not automatically jump to assumptions.
Encryptus
05-19-2008, 11:55 AM
May 16, 2008, 11:22PM
Teacher out after allegedly cutting Pentecostal girl's hair
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle
An Aldine ISD teacher who allegedly chopped several inches of a Pentecostal student's hair is no longer employed by the school district, officials said Friday.
DividedThigh
05-19-2008, 12:00 PM
May 16, 2008, 11:22PM
Teacher out after allegedly cutting Pentecostal girl's hair
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle
An Aldine ISD teacher who allegedly chopped several inches of a Pentecostal student's hair is no longer employed by the school district, officials said Friday.
school district would need cash if this were my daughter under these circumstances, lots of green, dt
May 16, 2008, 11:22PM
Teacher out after allegedly cutting Pentecostal girl's hair
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle
An Aldine ISD teacher who allegedly chopped several inches of a Pentecostal student's hair is no longer employed by the school district, officials said Friday.
That's exactly what needed to happen.
DividedThigh
05-19-2008, 12:08 PM
That's exactly what needed to happen.
you mean the firing of the teacher, dan the man, lol,dt:happydance
Hoovie
05-19-2008, 12:08 PM
"Members of the Pentecostal community applauded Aldine's swift action.
Ken Gurley, senior pastor of First Church at Pearland, said some Pentecostals believe a woman's long hair is given to her instead of a veil and is her covering before God.
"Pentecostals have held to that, and they believe it's one of the signifying qualities of femininity," he said."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/religion/5786748.html
determined
05-19-2008, 12:09 PM
It is not a teacher's place or any other person's place other than a parent or with parental permission to cut a child's hair - boy or girl -- Religious issue or not. Being in the authoritative position of a teacher certainly doesn't go into that realm.
Hoovie
05-19-2008, 12:10 PM
It is not a teacher's place or any other person's place other than a parent or with parental permission to cut a child's hair - boy or girl -- Religious issue or not. Being in the authoritative position of a teacher certainly doesn't go into that realm.
True but the fact that the teacher knew in advance this was a religious conviction makes it a much more serious crime.
HeavenlyOne
05-19-2008, 12:11 PM
Regardless of the reason why she had long hair, or even if she didn't, for someone to alter someone physically without permission is assault.
My daughter, while she has long hair and it's uncut at the moment, she doesn't want it cut. I don't think it's a sin or anything else, but if someone were to cut her hair against her wishes, they'd be paying.
DividedThigh
05-19-2008, 12:13 PM
True but the fact that the teacher knew in advance this was a religious conviction makes it a much more serious crime.
i agree, obviously the girl received a fair amount of attention from her class mates and teachers for the fact that her hair was long, my wifes hair is really long, she gets comments and stares all the time at work, lol,dt
It is not a teacher's place or any other person's place other than a parent or with parental permission to cut a child's hair - boy or girl -- Religious issue or not. Being in the authoritative position of a teacher certainly doesn't go into that realm.
And the fat guy in Indiana says, AMEN!!! :D
"Members of the Pentecostal community applauded Aldine's swift action.
Ken Gurley, senior pastor of First Church at Pearland, said some Pentecostals believe a woman's long hair is given to her instead of a veil and is her covering before God.
"Pentecostals have held to that, and they believe it's one of the signifying qualities of femininity," he said."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/religion/5786748.html
I applaud brother Gurley in his vocal stance against this nefarious action taken by this teacher ...
However his theology is off on the issue ...
OnTheFritz
05-19-2008, 12:31 PM
Good reason to keep our children out of public school.
Hmm. One weirdo's odd behavior doesn't seem like a great reason to me. I have a feeling you'll find weirdos in every school ;)
Now there are probably other good reasons... I'm just saying... :happydance
DividedThigh
05-19-2008, 12:34 PM
Hmm. One weirdo's odd behavior doesn't seem like a great reason to me. I have a feeling you'll find weirdos in every school ;)
Now there are probably other good reasons... I'm just saying... :happydance
lol, i hear you could even find a few weirdos at some homes, lol,dt:happydance
OnTheFritz
05-19-2008, 12:37 PM
lol, i hear you could even find a few weirdos at some homes, lol,dt:happydance
I think that's just an ugly rumor. :bliss
DividedThigh
05-19-2008, 12:42 PM
I think that's just an ugly rumor. :bliss
maybe, lol, but funny, lol,dt:bliss
Servant82
05-19-2008, 12:56 PM
"Regardless of the reason why she had long hair, or even if she didn't, for someone to alter someone physically without permission is assault."
We don't know if there was permission involved or not. We've only heard one side of the
story. There was absolutely no physical harm done to the girl. Just like Samson hair grows back. However, a teacher has lost her livelihood, and her name. She has an exemplary history.
"He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him." Proverbs 18:17
Think about this, and prayerfully consider.
"Regardless of the reason why she had long hair, or even if she didn't, for someone to alter someone physically without permission is assault."
We don't know if there was permission involved or not. We've only heard one side of the
story. There was absolutely no physical harm done to the girl. Just like Samson hair grows back. However, a teacher has lost her livelihood, and her name. She has an exemplary history.
"He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him." Proverbs 18:17
Think about this, and prayerfully consider.
There is no other side of the story ... as a teacher you must know your limits in what you can and cannot do ... as it applies to your contact w/ a student
Several weeks ago while sitting in a co-teach classroom that was in the computer lab ... I realized a young man had a wad of gum in his hair. Apparently a classmate had thrown it in his hair ...
When I made him aware of it ... he asked if I could take it out for him ... he asked a girl for a pair of scissors and wanted either myself or a classmate to cut it off ...
I wasn't going to A. touch his hair .... and B. do so w/ a pair of scissors or have one of his classmates play butcher/barber.
I gave him the choice of going to the bathroom and taking care of it himself w/o the scissors ... because it would be dangerous ... or going to the nurse's office ...
He chose the restroom.
DividedThigh
05-19-2008, 01:06 PM
agreed danny, no other side, dt
Cindy
05-19-2008, 01:07 PM
"Regardless of the reason why she had long hair, or even if she didn't, for someone to alter someone physically without permission is assault."
We don't know if there was permission involved or not. We've only heard one side of the
story. There was absolutely no physical harm done to the girl. Just like Samson hair grows back. However, a teacher has lost her livelihood, and her name. She has an exemplary history.
"He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him." Proverbs 18:17
Think about this, and prayerfully consider.
Permission from whom? The student? A minor cannot give a teacher permission to cut their hair I don't think. If the students explanation was right it is absolutely a physical and emotional assault. I would however like to know the teacher's side of this story wrong or right.
DividedThigh
05-19-2008, 01:10 PM
wisdom danny, let them do it themselves keep you from false accusation and slurs, dt
wisdom danny, let them do it themselves keep you from false accusation and slurs, dt
That's right ...
Servant82
05-19-2008, 01:11 PM
"Regardless of the reason why she had long hair, or even if she didn't, for someone to alter someone physically without permission is assault."
We don't know if there was permission involved or not. We've only heard one side of the
story. There was absolutely no physical harm done to the girl. Just like Samson hair grows back. However, a teacher has lost her livelihood, and her name. She has an exemplary history.
"He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him." Proverbs 18:17
Think about this, and prayerfully consider.
There is no other side of the story ... as a teacher you must know your limits in what you can and cannot do ... as it applies to your contact w/ a student.
THERE IS ALWAYS ANOTHER SIDE TO EVERY STORY, AND MANY CIRCUMSTANCES COULD RENDER THIS WOMAN INNOCENT. SO FAR, I STAY
NEUTRAL. IF WE CAN'T HEAR WHAT THIS TEACHER'S STORY IS, WE BEHAVE
IRRATIONALLY AND FALL IN LINE MORE SO WITH AUTOCRATIC FASCISM. GOD FORBID WE REACH THAT POINT. DO YOU KNOW MRS. SORENSON? DID YOU KNOW SHE PAID A CHILD'S MOTHER'S ELECTRIC BILL? DID YOU KNOW SHE HAS SEVERAL TEACHING AWARDS? THERE'S HAS BEEN MORE THAN ONE STORY ABOUT HER IN THE MEDIA.
DividedThigh
05-19-2008, 01:14 PM
"Regardless of the reason why she had long hair, or even if she didn't, for someone to alter someone physically without permission is assault."
We don't know if there was permission involved or not. We've only heard one side of the
story. There was absolutely no physical harm done to the girl. Just like Samson hair grows back. However, a teacher has lost her livelihood, and her name. She has an exemplary history.
"He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him." Proverbs 18:17
Think about this, and prayerfully consider.
There is no other side of the story ... as a teacher you must know your limits in what you can and cannot do ... as it applies to your contact w/ a student.
THERE IS ALWAYS ANOTHER SIDE TO EVERY STORY, AND MANY CIRCUMSTANCES COULD RENDER THIS WOMAN INNOCENT. SO FAR, I STAY
NEUTRAL. IF WE CAN'T HEAR WHAT THIS TEACHER'S STORY IS, WE BEHAVE
IRRATIONALLY AND FALL IN LINE MORE SO WITH AUTOCRATIC FASCISM. GOD FORBID WE REACH THAT POINT. DO YOU KNOW MRS. SORENSON? DID YOU KNOW SHE PAID A CHILD'S MOTHER'S ELECTRIC BILL? DID YOU KNOW SHE HAS SEVERAL TEACHING AWARDS? THERE'S HAS BEEN MORE THAN ONE STORY ABOUT HER IN THE MEDIA.
i couldnt care less what she has previously done or what award she has won, if the little girl is telling the truth and she cut her hair after basically taunting her, then she is toast, dt
"Regardless of the reason why she had long hair, or even if she didn't, for someone to alter someone physically without permission is assault."
We don't know if there was permission involved or not. We've only heard one side of the
story. There was absolutely no physical harm done to the girl. Just like Samson hair grows back. However, a teacher has lost her livelihood, and her name. She has an exemplary history.
"He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him." Proverbs 18:17
Think about this, and prayerfully consider.
There is no other side of the story ... as a teacher you must know your limits in what you can and cannot do ... as it applies to your contact w/ a student.
THERE IS ALWAYS ANOTHER SIDE TO EVERY STORY, AND MANY CIRCUMSTANCES COULD RENDER THIS WOMAN INNOCENT. SO FAR, I STAY
NEUTRAL. IF WE CAN'T HEAR WHAT THIS TEACHER'S STORY IS, WE BEHAVE
IRRATIONALLY AND FALL IN LINE MORE SO WITH AUTOCRATIC FASCISM. GOD FORBID WE REACH THAT POINT. DO YOU KNOW MRS. SORENSON? DID YOU KNOW SHE PAID A CHILD'S MOTHER'S ELECTRIC BILL? DID YOU KNOW SHE HAS SEVERAL TEACHING AWARDS? THERE'S HAS BEEN MORE THAN ONE STORY ABOUT HER IN THE MEDIA.
Presumption of innocence will be hers when or if it goes to trial.
The facts will be discovered I'm sure.
DividedThigh
05-19-2008, 01:15 PM
by the way to say the little girl was not physically harmed is a falsehood, her hair being cut after not having that done for her whole life is physical harm, my own opinion,dt
Servant82
05-19-2008, 01:32 PM
i couldnt care less what she has previously done or what award she has won, if the little girl is telling the truth and she cut her hair after basically taunting her, then she is toast, dt
"I AM PERSONALLY GRATEFUL FOR YOUR OPINION, DT. I JUST WONDER ABOUT MOTIVES. I WANT THIS MATTER TO BE SEARCHED OUT.
DividedThigh
05-19-2008, 01:35 PM
i couldnt care less what she has previously done or what award she has won, if the little girl is telling the truth and she cut her hair after basically taunting her, then she is toast, dt
"I AM PERSONALLY GRATEFUL FOR YOUR OPINION, DT. I JUST WONDER ABOUT MOTIVES. I WANT THIS MATTER TO BE SEARCHED OUT.
i agree with you on that note servant, we do need to know why she would do such a thing, then let the chips fall where they may, dt
Encryptus
05-19-2008, 02:52 PM
by the way to say the little girl was not physically harmed is a falsehood, her hair being cut after not having that done for her whole life is physical harm, my own opinion,dt
True, what was done was irreparable. Furthermore "Servant" seems to be implying that the worst injuries all have to be physical.
Absolutely not true !
HeavenlyOne
05-19-2008, 03:00 PM
"Regardless of the reason why she had long hair, or even if she didn't, for someone to alter someone physically without permission is assault."
We don't know if there was permission involved or not. We've only heard one side of the
story. [quote]
The mother didn't give permission, did she? Isn't that the side we've heard? If she didn't give permission, it doesn't matter what the other side says. The school didn't suspend (or terminate her employment) for no reason.
[quote]There was absolutely no physical harm done to the girl. Just like Samson hair grows back. However, a teacher has lost her livelihood, and her name. She has an exemplary history.
"He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him." Proverbs 18:17
Think about this, and prayerfully consider.
Just because no physical harm was done doesn't justify her actions. You can't put your hands on someone else's child without permission, whether you cause harm to them or not.
I agree that hair grows back, but if my daughter's hair was uncut all her life and I wanted it kept that way until she became of age, I would be furious with someone who would alter that status without my permission.
You must be male. ;)
HeavenlyOne
05-19-2008, 03:03 PM
"Regardless of the reason why she had long hair, or even if she didn't, for someone to alter someone physically without permission is assault."
We don't know if there was permission involved or not. We've only heard one side of the
story. There was absolutely no physical harm done to the girl. Just like Samson hair grows back. However, a teacher has lost her livelihood, and her name. She has an exemplary history.
"He that is first in his own cause seemeth just; but his neighbour cometh and searcheth him." Proverbs 18:17
Think about this, and prayerfully consider.
There is no other side of the story ... as a teacher you must know your limits in what you can and cannot do ... as it applies to your contact w/ a student.
THERE IS ALWAYS ANOTHER SIDE TO EVERY STORY, AND MANY CIRCUMSTANCES COULD RENDER THIS WOMAN INNOCENT. SO FAR, I STAY
NEUTRAL. IF WE CAN'T HEAR WHAT THIS TEACHER'S STORY IS, WE BEHAVE
IRRATIONALLY AND FALL IN LINE MORE SO WITH AUTOCRATIC FASCISM. GOD FORBID WE REACH THAT POINT. DO YOU KNOW MRS. SORENSON? DID YOU KNOW SHE PAID A CHILD'S MOTHER'S ELECTRIC BILL? DID YOU KNOW SHE HAS SEVERAL TEACHING AWARDS? THERE'S HAS BEEN MORE THAN ONE STORY ABOUT HER IN THE MEDIA.
Her good deeds don't erase her bad ones. I have all kinds of good stories about ministers who have fallen, but we don't ignore the reason they fell, right?
It doesn't matter what her story is. If she didn't obtain permission from the parent, she was wrong.....period. In addition, she is a teacher, not a beautician, and therefore had no business cutting that girl's hair.
bethola
05-19-2008, 03:15 PM
I used to teach both high school and adult education. In my 15 yr tenure I made it a practice to NEVER put my hands on the high school students unless I was doing a skills demonstration and then ONLY when absolutely necessary and then only with their permission even after they had volunteered to be the "patient". Same thing for the adults. Of course that was many years ago and probably today I would NEVER touch a student adult or otherwise.
Even as a nurse LOOOONNNGGG years ago, we had to have WRITTEN PERMISSION to cut a patient's hair that had LICE! Also, if stitches had to be done and the hair had to be cut....again, doctor's order and signed permission!!
The teacher may have won many awards and may be a wonderful teacher. But, I agree with Heavenly One. Her good deeds do not erase this lapse of REASONABLE judgement! As a teacher, there is NO excuse for putting scissors in a child's hair!
Beth in KY
lol, i hear you could even find a few weirdos at some homes, lol,dt:happydance
and, on rare occasions, you might even find a weirdo or two on an online forum
i agree with you on that note servant, we do need to know why she would do such a thing, then let the chips fall where they may, dt
I doubt if we will ever know.
This was something on the local news.
It will soon be forgotten by everyone except a few local folks who were involved.
James Griffin
05-19-2008, 04:35 PM
I doubt if we will ever know.
This was something on the local news.
It will soon be forgotten by everyone except a few local folks who were involved.
The news about the teacher being fired is only a couple days old. But fired as opposed to suspended means a lot.
IF the family chooses not to proceed in court, then yes that will be all the news forthcoming.
Hoovie
05-20-2008, 08:56 PM
"Members of the Pentecostal community applauded Aldine's swift action.
Ken Gurley, senior pastor of First Church at Pearland, said some Pentecostals believe a woman's long hair is given to her instead of a veil and is her covering before God.
"Pentecostals have held to that, and they believe it's one of the signifying qualities of femininity," he said."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/religion/5786748.html
I applaud brother Gurley in his vocal stance against this nefarious action taken by this teacher ...
However his theology is off on the issue ...
LOL! Are we being presumptuous here?
Gurley simply stated what, "some Pentecostals believe..." and that "and they believe it's one of the signifying qualities of femininity"
It does not speak about his own beliefs.
Cindy
05-20-2008, 09:12 PM
The news about the teacher being fired is only a couple days old. But fired as opposed to suspended means a lot.
IF the family chooses not to proceed in court, then yes that will be all the news forthcoming.
Does the family have to file charges for this to be a criminal case James, as opposed to a civil case? Or can the state file criminal charges?
Cindy
05-20-2008, 09:16 PM
It might be interesting to read that particular school's dress code. When my children were in school here unusual hair styles were not tolerated, and clothing or hair that was a distraction. Although I never heard of any teacher that actually cut a students hair. Some boys at that time had really short hair and a little "tail". To play in football they had to get rid of the tail. One boy refused and they actually sued the school district. They lost of course.
James Griffin
05-20-2008, 09:25 PM
Does the family have to file charges for this to be a criminal case James, as opposed to a civil case? Or can the state file criminal charges?
The state can file directly, but it in a case like this I can't see it happening.
For example, in rare cases as a prosecutor I went forward in a few domestic violence cases even when the victim wanted to drop the charges or if she did not even file but I had other eyewitnesses to the assault.
In this case, based on the facts presented so far it seems the highest criminal charge would be misdemeanor assault. So like I said I doubt the state would proceed sua sponte.
Civil suit of course would require the family filing, and based on the facts as presented they would appear to have a very strong tort case if they decided to pursue.
Cindy
05-20-2008, 09:29 PM
The state can file directly, but it in a case like this I can't see it happening.
For example, in rare cases as a prosecutor I went forward in a few domestic violence cases even when the victim wanted to drop the charges or if she did not even file but I had other eyewitnesses to the assault.
In this case, based on the facts presented so far it seems the highest criminal charge would be misdemeanor assault. So like I said I doubt the state would proceed sua sponte.
Civil suit of course would require the family filing, and based on the facts as presented they would appear to have a very strong tort case if they decided to pursue.
Thanks, I was pretty sure it would not be considered felony assault. I agree with your earlier post about the firing instead of suspension. Most authority figures are suspended until after all the facts are heard. So maybe the school district had enough facts to terminate.
mizpeh
05-20-2008, 09:31 PM
What do you think? Should they turn the other cheek, forgive this teacher and seek love?
Cindy
05-20-2008, 09:34 PM
What do you think? Should they turn the other cheek, forgive this teacher and seek love?
Are you speaking about the parents?
Hoovie
05-20-2008, 09:34 PM
The state can file directly, but it in a case like this I can't see it happening.
For example, in rare cases as a prosecutor I went forward in a few domestic violence cases even when the victim wanted to drop the charges or if she did not even file but I had other eyewitnesses to the assault.
In this case, based on the facts presented so far it seems the highest criminal charge would be misdemeanor assault. So like I said I doubt the state would proceed sua sponte.
Civil suit of course would require the family filing, and based on the facts as presented they would appear to have a very strong tort case if they decided to pursue.
Funny, if this were about Jews or muslims the state would certainly be all over it with press releases declaring an ongoing "Hate Crime" investigation.
Cindy
05-20-2008, 09:35 PM
Funny, if this were about Jews or muslims the state would certainly be all over it with press releases declaring an ongoing "Hate Crime" investigation.
I agree.
James Griffin
05-20-2008, 09:36 PM
What do you think? Should they turn the other cheek, forgive this teacher and seek love?
It is impossible to speak to another's circumstance.
Personally, I hope that in such a situation I would have the grace to do exactly that.
Some would no doubt feel it almost unAmerican to not "get what's coming to you".
For others I think it would depend somewhat on the teacher's response.
Hoovie
05-20-2008, 09:37 PM
What do you think? Should they turn the other cheek, forgive this teacher and seek love?
They should get a judgement to stop reoccurrance of the crime. As to a monetary settlement - I am not in favor unless $$ can repair the damages.
The thing with uncut hair on a female is this: you only have one chance to be able to say your hair has never ever been cut. I know that this is important to those who believe the uncut hair doctrine. This teacher has taken something away from this girl that can never be given back. She can never stand and testify that her hair has never been cut. The girl has had that testimony taken away from her. The girl will, from now on, have to say, "Except for when that teacher cut my hair, it's never been cut." I know this may seem like a minor issue to many of you, but I can promise you it isn't a minor issue to this girl.
They should get a judgement to stop reoccurrance of the crime. As to a monetary settlement - I am not in favor unless $$ can repair the damages.
There is such a thing as punitive damages in the law.
LOL! Are we being presumptuous here?
Gurley simply stated what, "some Pentecostals believe..." and that "and they believe it's one of the signifying qualities of femininity"
It does not speak about his own beliefs.
Maybe he's trying to be more "seeker friendly"
If he made an issue out of the long hair and Pentecostal church connection, lots of people would immediately point out ladies who do not comply.
Hoovie
05-20-2008, 11:14 PM
Maybe he's trying to be more "seeker friendly"
If he made an issue out of the long hair and Pentecostal church connection, lots of people would immediately point out ladies who do not comply.
Right - that would be good wisdom regardless of his personal feelings on the matter.
COOPER
05-21-2008, 08:44 AM
This is terrible for that little girl........
That teacher should be permanently banned from teaching.
Cindy
05-21-2008, 08:46 AM
This is terrible for that little girl........
That teacher should be permanently banned from teaching.
Well she did get fired from that school district Coop.
BTW Where have you been young man?
Good to see you post.......:)
Steve Epley
05-21-2008, 08:47 AM
Sue the teacher-school!!!!!!!! Time for homeschool.
COOPER
05-21-2008, 08:55 AM
Well she did get fired from that school district Coop.
BTW Where have you been young man?
Good to see you post.......:)
I have been busy lately and my home computer is broke.
James Griffin
05-21-2008, 08:56 AM
Sue the teacher-school!!!!!!!! Time for homeschool.
The school fired her, and will no doubt claim her actions were ultra vires. Unreasonable, unforeseeable, and beyond the scope of her employment, therefore the school is not culpable.
It would probably be pointless to sue the teacher for monetary damages, especially in Texas.
Whether she should be sued for revenge I guess fits a lot into ones "eye for an eye" versus grace mentality.
Baron1710
05-21-2008, 09:04 AM
The school fired her, and will no doubt claim her actions were ultra vires. Unreasonable, unforeseeable, and beyond the scope of her employment, therefore the school is not culpable.
It would probably be pointless to sue the teacher for monetary damages, especially in Texas.
Whether she should be sued for revenge I guess fits a lot into ones "eye for an eye" versus grace mentality.
That's what I would argue, but if there is any kind of history that the teacher was antagonistic towards the girl then I think respondeat superior...So do you go for the bench trial or the jury if your the plaintiff?
James Griffin
05-21-2008, 09:10 AM
That's what I would argue, but if there is any kind of history that the teacher was antagonistic towards the girl then I think respondeat superior...So do you go for the bench trial or the jury if your the plaintiff?
Test for respondeat superior:
1. Was the act committed within the time and space limits of the agency?
2. Was the offense incidental to, or of the same general nature as, the responsibilities the agent is authorized to perform?
3. Was the agent motivated to any degree to benefit the principal by committing the act?
Obviously fails on 2 and 3, not to mention the teacher would be considered a quasi-governmental employee and therefore burden against school would have to higher than "normal" employer.
But good try grasshopper !!! :-)
James Griffin
05-21-2008, 09:15 AM
That's what I would argue, but if there is any kind of history that the teacher was antagonistic towards the girl then I think respondeat superior...So do you go for the bench trial or the jury if your the plaintiff?
Sorry second part I don't do tort, but if I did in this case, jury.
Best cause of action is Intentional Inflection of Emotional Distress.
Good plaintiff lawyer would of course focus in on the "emotional" which is usually works best with a jury.
However, you skipped over whether a Christian should/would sue in a case such as this and to what end? Just because a suit CAN be filed does not always mean it should.
Cindy
05-21-2008, 09:18 AM
Test for respondeat superior:
1. Was the act committed within the time and space limits of the agency?
2. Was the offense incidental to, or of the same general nature as, the responsibilities the agent is authorized to perform?
3. Was the agent motivated to any degree to benefit the principal by committing the act?
Obviously fails on 2 and 3, not to mention the teacher would be considered a quasi-governmental employee and therefore burden against school would have to higher than "normal" employer.
But good try grasshopper !!! :-)
I just had a thought James. The article said the teacher had been singling her out about her hair. I just wonder if she or her parents had ever told the principal or anyone else at the school before this happened? If so would they then be responsible? And would this not be considered "bully" behavior on the part of the teacher?
Baron1710
05-21-2008, 09:21 AM
Sorry second part I don't do tort, but if I did in this case, jury.
Best cause of action is Intentional Inflection of Emotional Distress.
Good plaintiff lawyer would of course focus in on the "emotional" which is usually works best with a jury.
However, you skipped over whether a Christian should/would sue in a case such as this and to what end? Just because a suit CAN be filed does not always mean it should.
Personally, unless the school really did have some responsibility, no I wouldn’t. It's not like a child has lost a limb and money damages are being used for medical bills, prosthetics, etc. Money restores nothing here. However regardless of whether punitive damages would be available, if the school looked the other way and allowed this to happen, then the answer would be yes.
you know the drill the answer is always "it depends"
mizpeh
05-21-2008, 09:28 AM
It is impossible to speak to another's circumstance.
Personally, I hope that in such a situation I would have the grace to do exactly that.
Some would no doubt feel it almost unAmerican to not "get what's coming to you".
For others I think it would depend somewhat on the teacher's response.
Personally, I think they (the family) should forgive this teacher. Love covers! :)
mizpeh
05-21-2008, 09:31 AM
Test for respondeat superior:
1. Was the act committed within the time and space limits of the agency?
2. Was the offense incidental to, or of the same general nature as, the responsibilities the agent is authorized to perform?
3. Was the agent motivated to any degree to benefit the principal by committing the act?
Obviously fails on 2 and 3, not to mention the teacher would be considered a quasi-governmental employee and therefore burden against school would have to higher than "normal" employer.
But good try grasshopper !!! :-)What are you doing now that you aren't practicing law in Texas?
I just had a thought James. The article said the teacher had been singling her out about her hair. I just wonder if she or her parents had ever told the principal or anyone else at the school before this happened? If so would they then be responsible? And would this not be considered "bully" behavior on the part of the teacher?
This is where it's going to get a little messy ...
Will we have to accept the girl's word that she was being "bullied"? Are there witnesses ?... is this first time she had approached adults w/ this ...??? ...
is there a paper trail that indicates that this was a problem prior to the alleged crime
... emails will most probably be subpoenaed if this goes to court
James Griffin
05-21-2008, 09:35 AM
I just had a thought James. The article said the teacher had been singling her out about her hair. I just wonder if she or her parents had ever told the principal or anyone else at the school before this happened? If so would they then be responsible? And would this not be considered "bully" behavior on the part of the teacher?
Hey Cindy,
It would be fact specific. Even if teacher had been teasing was it foreseeable she would cut?
As for everything else, once again it depends.
As a general rule it is much harder to go against a governmental institution. Which personally in the grand scheme of things I think is a good thing.
James Griffin
05-21-2008, 09:39 AM
Personally, unless the school really did have some responsibility, no I wouldn’t. It's not like a child has lost a limb and money damages are being used for medical bills, prosthetics, etc. Money restores nothing here. However regardless of whether punitive damages would be available, if the school looked the other way and allowed this to happen, then the answer would be yes.
you know the drill the answer is always "it depends"
LOL yes you have Lawyer Answer 101 down pat:
"It Depends"
People get frustrated but seldom realize the tremendous difference even a slight variation in facts can make.
Cindy
05-21-2008, 09:40 AM
Hey Cindy,
It would be fact specific. Even if teacher had been teasing was it foreseeable she would cut?
As for everything else, once again it depends.
As a general rule it is much harder to go against a governmental institution. Which personally in the grand scheme of things I think is a good thing.
OK, I hadn't thought of that, it being foreseeable I mean.
I don't think many go against the state of Texas and win.
I do agree with your last statement.
James Griffin
05-21-2008, 09:44 AM
OK, I hadn't thought of that, it being foreseeable I mean.
I don't think many go against the state of Texas and win.
I do agree with your last statement.
With Right case, right cause.
The local ISD, municipalities, even the IRS can be successfully litigated against.
:-)
James Griffin
05-21-2008, 09:45 AM
What are you doing now that you aren't practicing law in Texas?
Plead the fifth.
:tic
mizpeh
05-21-2008, 09:50 AM
Plead the fifth.
:tic
You're sounding like a potential politician!!!!!
Baron1710
05-21-2008, 09:54 AM
LOL yes you have Lawyer Answer 101 down pat:
"It Depends"
People get frustrated but seldom realize the tremendous difference even a slight variation in facts can make.
It also depends on how much of a retainer you have for me...LOL
DividedThigh
05-21-2008, 10:14 AM
funny baron, always about the coin huh, lol,dt
dizzyde
05-21-2008, 10:16 AM
This is where it's going to get a little messy ...
Will we have to accept the girl's word that she was being "bullied"? Are there witnesses ?... is this first time she had approached adults w/ this ...??? ...
is there a paper trail that indicates that this was a problem prior to the alleged crime
... emails will most probably be subpoenaed if this goes to court
On an interesting side note, my niece came home from school about a week before this story came out and told her parents that her teacher said that her hair was too long, she needed to cut it.
Her parents were pretty incensed about that, although they decided to just leave it alone because it is almost the end of the school year, and they have had numerous problems with this teacher all year, it would definitely be a she said/she said thing.
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