Platform Rules

[POWERUP]

Just wondering what some think about the difference in the platform rules, and other leadership rules.

Some pastors let some teach Sunday School, but don't let them on the platform, for whatever reason.

Or they can wear Jewerly in the pew, but not on the platform.

Crazy Huh......

[Baron1710]

Just wondering what some think about the difference in the platform rules, and other leadership rules.

Some pastors let some teach Sunday School, but don't let them on the platform, for whatever reason.

Or they can wear Jewerly in the pew, but not on the platform.

Crazy Huh......

Fear of being judged by their peers. If it's in the pew it can be excused as letting God clean them up (usually by way of the pressure to look like everyone else, and the idea that you are a second class citizen) but if they are on the platform then the pastor has to explain why he would let someone on the platform like that.

[Jack Shephard]

I love the way the movement looks at people as specially women. As Baron said in the pew God can work on them. That is the mentality of this movement. As if looking the part and being able to be on the platform means you are 'a-ok'. I think it is so easy to see that everyone in their spiritual walk is not at the same level, nor will everyone ever be at the same level. Once a person reaches a level of spiritual maturity they often times get legalistic in thinking about others. I do not have problems with platform standards as far as what you wear while you are physically on the platform, but to make it an over all rule that one can or can not wear certain things that is crazy. It should be obvious that immoral living such as fornication, drugs, drinking, and other things are definate no-nos. Also modesty is the key. If a lady wears ear rings and makeup when not on the platform that is ok with me, but if they go to the clubs and get wasted or go to the beach in a thong that is not right. Same for the men. There are standards of modesty and morality, but a strict code is not where it is at, IMO.

[Baron1710]

When my wife saw this thread this was her response;

What about how women feel who are NOT on the platform? If people put enough pressure on them, they will change, go somewhere else or learn to live with the shame.

[Jack Shephard]

When my wife saw this thread this was her response;

What about how women feel who are NOT on the platform? If people put enough pressure on them, they will change, go somewhere else or learn to live with the shame.

This is a correct reaction. I have a girl tell me once that if she didn't change she would not fit in and be out cast. While in that particular church was not exactly the case from everyone alot of the women would have and did cast her away. At that time I was all about standards, but I told her it is something that you do for God not do for men and women. I felt they were salvational, but that was because of what I was told once I studied it out on my own I realized that it is not. But that does not change the fact that peer pressure is that hardest thing to fight. It is super tough to swim against a strong tide even when it is not wrong too.

[HeavenlyOne]

I don't mind platform rules. In fact, I have a lot of respect for churches that have them in place.

I have seen churches that allow anything on the platform and sometimes, it's distracting or it just doesn't look right. For instance, jeans or jeanskirts (to me) doesn't look right on the platform. I think it's a good idea to have platform people look more dressed up than those on the pew.

Baron, I think your comments are totally unfair. While I believe there are churches that feel that way, they aren't anymore common than churches that require you to make a certain amount of money each year to be on the platform.

As a nurse, I have a dress code at work. No tattoos can be shown (even the administrator has to cover hers). Only one pair of earrings, and no facial piercings (this goes for everyone, including office staff). And we all have to wear appropriate attire, regardless what our position and title is. We are even told what kind of shoes we can and can't wear!

Does dressing with those rules in place make me a better nurse? If I dressed any other way than what they allowed, would it make me less of a nurse?

The answer to both questions is 'no'. But I'd hardly have the attitude that I'm a second class nurse if I don't have my scrubs on, or that they only reason why my job has rules in place is due to fear from their peers to keep us all in line.

[HeavenlyOne]

You two apparently attend different churches than I ever did, and I was even raised in a strict church! One where if you were on the platform, you had to have your hair up if you were a woman and if you were a man, you had to wear a tie!

But I'd hardly say that women in the pews were pressured to wear their hair up or that men in the pews were made to feel less of a Christian if they didn't have a tie on. That was only for people on the platform. If you wanted to be on the platform, comply with those rules. If you didn't, no big deal.

[Baron1710]

You two apparently attend different churches than I ever did, and I was even raised in a strict church! One where if you were on the platform, you had to have your hair up if you were a woman and if you were a man, you had to wear a tie!

But I'd hardly say that women in the pews were pressured to wear their hair up or that men in the pews were made to feel less of a Christian if they didn't have a tie on. That was only for people on the platform. If you wanted to be on the platform, comply with those rules. If you didn't, no big deal.

I don't think that the problem is rules for when you are on the platform, it's rules that require certain attire, or forbid it, all the time if you want to be part of the ministry. You can teach Sunday school and wear make up, but you can't sing in the choir and wear it on Monday.

[Jack Shephard]

You two apparently attend different churches than I ever did, and I was even raised in a strict church! One where if you were on the platform, you had to have your hair up if you were a woman and if you were a man, you had to wear a tie!

But I'd hardly say that women in the pews were pressured to wear their hair up or that men in the pews were made to feel less of a Christian if they didn't have a tie on. That was only for people on the platform. If you wanted to be on the platform, comply with those rules. If you didn't, no big deal.

HO, all I can say is I have seen time where immediately after someone receives the HG that a lady in the church comes up to them and starts to dictate scripture out of context to basically tell them they have to change in order to be holy. I have personally seen after the pastor preaches a message about God's grace and mercy some one receives His spirit and then the next breath after they are done a lady is 'setting them straight' on the conditions of receiving God's grace. It doesn't make sense. Now this is an extreme situation, but I have seen it. Just let a women or man sit in a conservative congregation without changing anything....you will start to see one of two things. First the preacher preaching at them or the saints starting bible studies with them basically to teach them the ways of dress codes. I have seen it all too many times.

[HeavenlyOne]

I don't think that the problem is rules for when you are on the platform, it's rules that require certain attire, or forbid it, all the time if you want to be part of the ministry. You can teach Sunday school and wear make up, but you can't sing in the choir and wear it on Monday.

Gotcha. After posting, I was wondering if that was what you might be referring to.

[HeavenlyOne]

HO, all I can say is I have seen time where immediately after someone receives the HG that a lady in the church comes up to them and starts to dictate scripture out of context to basically tell them they have to change in order to be holy. I have personally seen after the pastor preaches a message about God's grace and mercy some one receives His spirit and then the next breath after they are done a lady is 'setting them straight' on the conditions of receiving God's grace. It doesn't make sense. Now this is an extreme situation, but I have seen it. Just let a women or man sit in a conservative congregation without changing anything....you will start to see one of two things. First the preacher preaching at them or the saints starting bible studies with them basically to teach them the ways of dress codes. I have seen it all too many times.

Sadly, I have to admit that I've seen it as well, but I'm happy to know that this way of doing things is going by the wayside. I now know lots of pastors who will not allow the saints to do the informing to the new converts. I think it's wrong, and it's not their job. God doesn't need our help, right?

The biggest issue I'm dealing with at the moment is pastors and saints who 'teach' people who to speak in tongues. This happened again on Sunday morning.

[MissBrattified]

Two thoughts about platform rules:

1. I understand the need to put rules in place that reduce distraction from the platform.

2. I do not understand how something can be salvational for the staff, but not for the layman. It's either good for both, or neither.

However: I also understand that those on the platform, and therefore in the "public" eye, have to appeal to the entire cross section of the congregation, from the most liberal to the most conservative saint, so erring on the side of the conservative tends to be less offensive overall. You can't minister to people and offend them at the same time. Those in leadership have a greater obligation to be inoffensive, for lack of a better word.

I DO take issue when a pastor says or believes that something is salvational, but only requires it of staff. Either he doesn't really believe its important, and is just saying that he does, OR he doesn't care as much about the salvation of the saint as he does the staff member. It's bad either way.

There is nothing wrong with the pastor or other leaders asking a group to abide by certain rules or preferences, as long as those rules or preferences are clearly understood as being just that--rules and preferences.

[Michael The Disciple]

Heavenly One:

I have seen churches that allow anything on the platform and sometimes, it's distracting or it just doesn't look right. For instance, jeans or jeanskirts (to me) doesn't look right on the platform. I think it's a good idea to have platform people look more dressed up than those on the pew.

Sorry but does remind me of this:

1: My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2: For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3: And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

[Jack Shephard]

Two thoughts about platform rules:

1. I understand the need to put rules in place that reduce distraction from the platform.

2. I do not understand how something can be salvational for the staff, but not for the layman. It's either good for both, or neither.

However: I also understand that those on the platform, and therefore in the "public" eye, have to appeal to the entire cross section of the congregation, from the most liberal to the most conservative saint, so erring on the side of the conservative tends to be less offensive overall. You can't minister to people and offend them at the same time. Those in leadership have a greater obligation to be inoffensive, for lack of a better word.

I DO take issue when a pastor says or believes that something is salvational, but only requires it of staff. Either he doesn't really believe its important, and is just saying that he does, OR he doesn't care as much about the salvation of the saint as he does the staff member. It's bad either way.

There is nothing wrong with the pastor or other leaders asking a group to abide by certain rules or preferences, as long as those rules or preferences are clearly understood as being just that--rules and preferences.

Agreed. Also do not forget the old thing 'it is sin for you and your family but not for mine' mind set. Often times family of the ministry are either hammered over the top if they mess up or most often it is swept under the rug in hopes the mess is not noticed.

[POWERUP]

Ladies and Gentlemen,

We are definitely on the same page. There is nothing else for me to say.

Ya summed it up!!!

[POWERUP]

Also don't forget about the papers you have to fill out saying you don't do certain things, before you get on the platform.

[HeavenlyOne]

Heavenly One:



Sorry but does remind me of this:

1: My brethren, have not the faith of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Lord of glory, with respect of persons.
2: For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3: And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool:

Don't read more into my post than what I wrote. Thanks.

[HeavenlyOne]

Also don't forget about the papers you have to fill out saying you don't do certain things, before you get on the platform.

Nothing wrong with that, to a certain degree. Even in my line of work, there are things, if I do them even on off time, can affect my license.

And hey, if one doesn't want to follow the platform rules, then don't be on the platform!! It's that simple to me.

I was once a member of the choir in a church I attended. My pastor gave me a verbal list of his preferences (none of them Biblical nor did he say they were, just that they were his preference). I listened to him and made my decision.

I was a member of the choir for 2 years. When I quit the choir, I was no longer bound by his rules and was free to do as I chose. He didn't think badly of me either way, but I respected his wishes while I was a platform member.

Having said that, I DON'T agree with someone that makes those preferences Biblical. Like Abi said, either they are for all or they aren't for any.

[Brother Price]

I can only speak for my home church, but the platform has the same liberty as the rest of the church does. There is no distinction, because we are all part of the New Covenant priesthood in Christ. Why should one group have stronger standards than another, for we all are brethren in Christ.

[Baron1710]

Nothing wrong with that, to a certain degree. Even in my line of work, there are things, if I do them even on off time, can affect my license.

And hey, if one doesn't want to follow the platform rules, then don't be on the platform!! It's that simple to me.

I was once a member of the choir in a church I attended. My pastor gave me a verbal list of his preferences (none of them Biblical nor did he say they were, just that they were his preference). I listened to him and made my decision.

I was a member of the choir for 2 years. When I quit the choir, I was no longer bound by his rules and was free to do as I chose. He didn't think badly of me either way, but I respected his wishes while I was a platform member.

Having said that, I DON'T agree with someone that makes those preferences Biblical. Like Abi said, either they are for all or they aren't for any.

I have to disagree with your analogy. I have a professional license that I would lose even if I did something outside my profession and it got back to the ethics committee. But this is not the same as a pastor creating a list of rules so that there are second class citizens in the church. Everyone in my profession is held to the same standard, I would assume this is the same for all who hold a professional license. The local church should not be creating classes of citizens by requiring those on the platform to live one way and yet Sunday school teachers and greeters are not held to the same standard.

[HeavenlyOne]

I have to disagree with your analogy. I have a professional license that I would lose even if I did something outside my profession and it got back to the ethics committee. But this is not the same as a pastor creating a list of rules so that there are second class citizens in the church. Everyone in my profession is held to the same standard, I would assume this is the same for all who hold a professional license. The local church should not be creating classes of citizens by requiring those on the platform to live one way and yet Sunday school teachers and greeters are not held to the same standard.

I was referring to the standards for the church alone, not in everyday life. For instance, if your pastor required women to wear their hair up because they were choir members, they only had to wear it up in church, not everyday and in every place. This doesn't make for second class citizens when done that way. I've just not seen it like you describe, although I don't doubt that churches like that do exist. I'm of the mind, however, that those kinds of churches are so few and far between that discussing them really doesn't make a difference.

[Baron1710]

I was referring to the standards for the church alone, not in everyday life. For instance, if your pastor required women to wear their hair up because they were choir members, they only had to wear it up in church, not everyday and in every place. This doesn't make for second class citizens when done that way. I've just not seen it like you describe, although I don't doubt that churches like that do exist. I'm of the mind, however, that those kinds of churches are so few and far between that discussing them really doesn't make a difference.

I understand what you are saying. I don't know if they are few and far between, I know the one we attended when coming to DC is that way. Platform = abide by UPC dress code. But if you are in the Sunday school department or a greater, make up jewelry, etc is fine.
I think the idea is that they are trying to loosen some of the restrictions, but it results in those creating two classes of people those that will look a certain way have greater privileges than those who won't.

[HeavenlyOne]

I understand what you are saying. I don't know if they are few and far between, I know the one we attended when coming to DC is that way. Platform = abide by UPC dress code. But if you are in the Sunday school department or a greater, make up jewelry, etc is fine.
I think the idea is that they are trying to loosen some of the restrictions, but it results in those creating two classes of people those that will look a certain way have greater privileges than those who won't.

In the churches I've been a member of, if you hold any office at all, you were held to the same standard. This included choir members, SS teachers, greeters, ushers, praise singers, orchestra members, etc.

When I was a member of the choir in the church I posted about the other day, my pastor took me into his office and told me his expectations. He said that he would ask that I don't wear pants or immodest attire, no makeup that could be seen, and minimal jewelry, mainly limited to rings with a purpose, like wedding bands, class rings, etc.

He wanted me to live this way at home also. Since I wanted to be in the choir and didn't see anything wrong with his 'rules', I abided by them. No, he didn't require all women to follow those rules, but just the ones who held some kind of office or particular position in the church.

He did have some exceptions. He did preach that it was better for a woman to wear culottes when performing a duty that might make her immodest in a skirt, such as climbing ladders or gardening. He also allowed makeup as long as it wasn't seen, like for those with complexion issues. He also allowed women to wear pants on the job if their job required it, like a surgical nurse, paramedic, police officer, or someone working in a factory. So he wasn't hard nosed like some might be and tell those women to find another job.

I will tell you this though...if anyone gets gossiped about in the church, it will more than likely be someone who holds a position or office in the church. The choir gets picked apart. I've heard it done. Nobody cares what Sis. Benchwarmer does in her spare time, but if Sis. Ima Choirmember wears her skirt slightly above her knee, they just split hell wide open and the church is a buzzin. Am I right?

I believe this is why they are held to higher standards in the church. The above gossip scenario happened at my church quite often, and usually by people who had nothing better to do than sit back and pick apart those people as if they were vile sinners. That's wrong.

On the flipside, I also attended a church that, while they required adults to adhere to platform standards, they didn't of the teenagers. This meant that the teens could sing in the teen choir, praise sing, and even lead service wearing t-shirts and jeans, jewelry, and cutting their hair....and I'm not speaking of the boys either.

This creates a problem as well. Not only did they just look like they were at a ball game, but it was disrespectful to the entire church, knowing what the pastor stood for in regard to the adults. I asked a friend of mine, when is the pastor going to inform those girls that it's wrong for them to wear jeans on the platform? When will it be wrong for them to cut their hair?

These are girls who's mother is in the church and doesn't partake of those things, but her girls are allowed to. Another girl, who's parents are also in the church...same thing.

Now, I don't care what they wear outside of church. My own daughter wears pants outside of church, but she wears appropriate attire for church and church functions. This is her own decision as well. But I think it sends a mixed message to people who wonder what the church really stands for if certain people are allowed to do what others aren't. And to be honest, if I was a visitor seeing the above, I'd wonder if I was in a UPC church or a charasmatic one.

Anyway, just my thoughts for the day. Trying to clear my stuffed head...LOL!

[SavedLou]

sorrpy =to hig[h; jack\ but== i jus=t spil'led some mi'lk\ on mypp k\eyboard!! i=t's [g[oin[g[ crazyp now!!! lol! ;hubbpy wil'l not= be ;happyp about= =th;is one! lol! t=h;is is =too weird!