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OneAccord
05-14-2008, 10:34 PM
This morning, it was raining. No work today. So... I decided to go to Scottsboro to look up a pastor I haven't seen in over twenty years. I haven't seen or spoken to this brother in many years, had no idea if he was even still living. He was, as it turns out. I found out through a mutual friend where this pastor lives and I went to see him. (He is still pastoring, visited his chrurch tonight).

When I got to his house I learned that he had just recently buried his 2nd wife. (His first wife died years ago). The brother was devastated. He, at first didn't recoignize me so I introduced myself and he remembered. He invited me in and I found that he was sorting thru his wifes things.(Oh, how I recall how painful that is). He kept turning to me with tear filled eyes saying, Brother, what am I going to do with out her?". I just let him talk. He poured his soul out - all of his pent-up emotion came flooding out... I waited...I listened. I cried with him...tried to console him.

Later, as I got ready to leave... he said, "Oh, brother, you don't know how much you helped me." Actually, I did nothing... I just let him talk. Then he added, "Its like you went thru this with me". It was then, as I was ready to walk out the door, that I said, "Brother, you remember my first wife...how she died in 1988?". He remembered. Then, I told him about losing Lola in February of this year. He knew then how it seemed I had went thru this with him. Had things not happened with Lola as they did, I wouldn't have known what to do to help this brother in the Lord. So... God has a way of teaching us thru our suffering, doesn't He?

ByFaith
05-14-2008, 11:05 PM
Of course he does brother. God uses these things in our lives to mold and shape us. The word says thru MUCH tribulation shall ye enter in. So with that being said. These things are to be expected. Do they hurt ? Yes. But I know we have to endure these things. My church family and others had to endure the passing away of our dear pastor. This man was like a father to me. I never really had a father growing up, and I wasnt raised in this truth. The death of him really devastated us all. But we all pulled together and got thru it. Now you want to talk about pain. His wife which is our pastor now she has been thru it all. In the last 7 years she has lost her Mom, Husband,Car,House. She almost died and many many other things. But thru all that she has preached more conferences and been able to minister to many.

Smiggy
05-15-2008, 12:51 AM
Of course he does brother. God uses these things in our lives to mold and shape us. The word says thru MUCH tribulation shall ye enter in. So with that being said. These things are to be expected. Do they hurt ? Yes. But I know we have to endure these things. My church family and others had to endure the passing away of our dear pastor. This man was like a father to me. I never really had a father growing up, and I wasnt raised in this truth. The death of him really devastated us all. But we all pulled together and got thru it. Now you want to talk about pain. His wife which is our pastor now she has been thru it all. In the last 7 years she has lost her Mom, Husband,Car,House. She almost died and many many other things. But thru all that she has preached more conferences and been able to minister to many.

Hi,

I understand the pain that person is going thru losing their love ones and things but I do not think that is how God mould and shape u.

God will use circumstances to break u but sickness and death is not part of it.

If God has to use sickness and death ( which God who is LIFE has none), then it is like saying God himself cannot change you but need the help of the devil because only the devil gives sickness and death.

SEE THE CONSISTENT PATTERN ON GOD'S DEALING

If u look at the story of Job, most calamity comes because of sin consciousness / condemnation ( not sin) and once God is able to help the believer see that He is a good God and Father and that the believer stands before HIm righteous and blameless all the times, the calamities of life fades away more and more.

The problem with Job is that he thinks that God is angry all the time and needs to be appease and hence his countless offerings to be right with HIM. Sin-consciousness will open the door to all kinds of attack on a believer. But righteousness consciousness will turn the thing around.

Same for Joshua the High priest. He could not complete his task or Lord's work because he was under-condemnation but once the Lord put on him the new garment of righteousness, the work of the Lord continues.

Apostle Paul was whipped all the time until he stand up to his right as a ROMAN citizen. He could be spared from the whipping.

The bible and Word is consistent and it is good that we study the 2 topics that matters most to New testament believer - Grace and Righteousness.
No sickness, no disease, no death except you coming into your position as a believer, child of God, demanding your right to be free, from lack, sickness, disease, failure etc because of Jesus' finished work.

Rom 5:17 For if by the one man's offense death reigned through the one, much more those who receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ.

If the Word declares that by abundance of grace and gift of righteousness we will reign in life ( this Life obviously), why do we spent so much time focusing on dealing of God and suffering.. ??

Major on the major and the rest will take care of itself.

The lost of love ones is not pleasant but revelation will cause u to see that the root cause of such attack is condemnation / guilt / sin consciousness in a believer's life.

The victory is yours and you deserve it because Jesus has paid the price, for us, it is just stop trying to earn it by our good behaviors, service, praying, bible reading etc etc.. This " trying to earn it thing" is what Jesus want to break and remove.

see The Root Cause Of Your Problem Is Condemnation
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCUby8b1zl4

Pressing-On
05-15-2008, 07:28 AM
This morning, it was raining. No work today. So... I decided to go to Scottsboro to look up a pastor I haven't seen in over twenty years. I haven't seen or spoken to this brother in many years, had no idea if he was even still living. He was, as it turns out. I found out through a mutual friend where this pastor lives and I went to see him. (He is still pastoring, visited his chrurch tonight).

When I got to his house I learned that he had just recently buried his 2nd wife. (His first wife died years ago). The brother was devastated. He, at first didn't recoignize me so I introduced myself and he remembered. He invited me in and I found that he was sorting thru his wifes things.(Oh, how I recall how painful that is). He kept turning to me with tear filled eyes saying, Brother, what am I going to do with out her?". I just let him talk. He poured his soul out - all of his pent-up emotion came flooding out... I waited...I listened. I cried with him...tried to console him.

Later, as I got ready to leave... he said, "Oh, brother, you don't know how much you helped me." Actually, I did nothing... I just let him talk. Then he added, "Its like you went thru this with me". It was then, as I was ready to walk out the door, that I said, "Brother, you remember my first wife...how she died in 1988?". He remembered. Then, I told him about losing Lola in February of this year. He knew then how it seemed I had went thru this with him. Had things not happened with Lola as they did, I wouldn't have known what to do to help this brother in the Lord. So... God has a way of teaching us thru our suffering, doesn't He?
Amen, OA! I'm reminded of the words in II Corinthians - 1:3 "Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; (4) Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God."

Bro-Larry
05-15-2008, 09:11 AM
God never intended for us to experience death , sickness or poverty. All these come from the devil. Adam and Eve made the choice which opened the door to "Pandora's Box" (TIC). So don't blame God like Job did.

Back in Job's day the devil had access to heaven so he was up there accusing men before God. Now, since Jesus did a number on him, he's been kicked out of heaven and he's down here on earth accusing God before men.

Don't believe the lie of the devil, that God is sending trouble your way to build you up and make you strong. It's the devil sending tribulation your way to destroy you. (Jn 10:10). Jesus came that you might enjoy the God kind of life: ZOE'

Whether you enjoy the ZOE' from God or the tribulation from the devil is your choice. If you choose to embrace suffering, at least it's good that you make the most of it and hold fast your faith in God.

TRFrance
05-15-2008, 10:42 AM
Some preachers will tell you they've gotten their best messages from the Lord while going through the fire.

The fact that he himself has personally gone through the fire adds more authenticity and power to what he's saying.

Rhoni
05-15-2008, 12:24 PM
One Accord,

This was mentioned on another thread also. I do think that the things we go through helps equip us to minister to others as they go through similar circumstances.

When we are young and idealistic we ask God to use us. We think it means bright lights, recognition, and prominence, but in actuality it is about wiping up the messes of satan in other people's lifes just like BRAVO paper towels.

When you feet wrung out...just know God is preparing you for more usefulness.

Blessings, Rhoni

steve p
05-15-2008, 01:17 PM
One Accord,

This was mentioned on another thread also. I do think that the things we go through helps equip us to minister to others as they go through similar circumstances.

When we are young and idealistic we ask God to use us. We think it means bright lights, recognition, and prominence, but in actuality it is about wiping up the messes of satan in other people's lifes just like BRAVO paper towels.

When you feet wrung out...just know God is preparing you for more usefulness.

Blessings, Rhoni

Once again, sometimes its Charmin!!
Blessings!

Rhoni
05-15-2008, 01:33 PM
Once again, sometimes its Charmin!!
Blessings!

:ty

steve p
05-15-2008, 01:37 PM
As a recovered alcoholic, I remember asking my AA sponser why I became alcoholic. He stated "If for no other reason, you are who and what you are to help the next person along who suffers from the same condition. That statement satisfied me. Whatever I am going through at any given time, can be used for good.

Bro-Larry
05-15-2008, 04:17 PM
So let me get this straight.

God is a child abuser. right?? He abuses His children, so they can help others to cope with the abuse, that He is using to help them, which will in turn help them to help someone else to cope with the abuseee......? What's wrong with this picture?

I believe I have suffered as much as anyone here, and it never once made me have a warm fuzzy feeling toward GOD. It instead made me mad at the devil, knowing he is the one causing it.

steve p
05-15-2008, 04:23 PM
Trouble is inevitable...as you stated and I paraphrase....it came with the fall of man...
WHAT we do with lifes struggles is what is important....Do we succomb to the evil one and give up or do we utilize it (whatever it is...in my case alcoholism) to help others overcome....I do believe it would have been difficult to overcome alcoholism IF I were to be the first to attempt it....Seeing others succeed gives one hope....the topic is God uses suffering....not God causes suffering......
Blessings!

Bro-Larry
05-15-2008, 04:41 PM
Everytime you glorify suffering, you are giving the devil permission to come into your life and cause more havoc. Are you receiving trouble "as from the hand of God" as Job did? The more he received the more he got.

(II Cor 1:3-4) says that it is by the comfort of God (not the tribulation), that we are able to comfort others and that it is also God's comfort that is the source that God uses to comfort us.

If God wants us to be comfortable, why glorify the tribulation?

:crazywalls:stirpot:snapout:rant:rant:rant

Pressing-On
05-15-2008, 05:04 PM
Larry,
I don't understand your point of view. Perhaps I am missing your point.

I Peter 1:7 "That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:"

Romans 5:1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: (2) By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. (3) And not only so, but we glory (to vaunt) in tribulations (pressure, anguish, trouble) also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; (4) And patience, experience; and experience, hope: (5) And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.

II Cor 12:10 "Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.

If we are going to mature in Christ, we are going to suffer some things. We don't look for these things, but when they come upon us, we look to Him.

When we come out, we share that with others so that they may find strength in the midst of their trouble.

Bro-Larry
05-15-2008, 06:21 PM
My point is God does not send tribulation and suffering to us. All feiry darts and trials come from the devil. They all should be resisted vigorously with the shield of faith.

Now here is the point of my point, the very sharp point of it is this-----that it is not the "going through or suffering through a trial" that benefits you or glorifies God. It is in the triumphing over the trial, that you prove to the world that your God is bigger than anything the devil can throw at you. It is in the quenching of that feiry trial/dart that God is glorified.

In I Pe 1:7 it indicates to me that after your shield of faith has been used against the fire, and your faith is stronger than the fire, (your faith puts out the feiry dart) ---- then and only then does your faith give praise, honour, and glory to Jesus Christ.

If the trial proves to be stronger than your faith and you have to suffer through the trial (like most people do), then you have given no glory to God.

Go to that thread a few weeks ago where those poor ignorant parents let their little girl die and see if anyone posted that those parents' actions glorified God?

You gave three scriptures and the word "suffering" is not in any of them.
Then you made this statement: "If we are going to mature in Christ, we are going to suffer..." The context of all three scriptures is that when you stand victoriously over a trial or tribulation then you can rejoice!!!

I don't like suffering!!!! I only believe in the suffering of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Because He suffered, I believe I don't have to. He took my suffering, and I believe in what His suffering did for me. I believe that His suffering delivered me from the sin, sickness, disease, poverty, and death from which I could not deliver myself. I believe in the radical grace of God.

That, my friend, is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

It is deeply ingrained in RCC Dogma, that people have to suffer. The Buddists monks think their suffering will gain them God's favor. The Islamists believe that also. Almost every religion in the world embraces suffering as major tenent of faith. This obsession with suffering borders on idolotry. They are offering another sacrifice. There is only One True Sacrifice--Jesus.

ByFaith
05-15-2008, 06:39 PM
Bro Larry, So If Im reading this right No one goes thru suffering to minister ? If that is so then heres a scenario for you. Someone confides in a minister that the were abused as a child. Do you think the minister who has gone thru the same thing and been thru the same abuse as well can help minister to the person ? Or do you think just anyone could minister to this person and help them out. Seems to me the one who has been thru it and been healed of it would be of more an effect. Just my opinion though

Pressing-On
05-15-2008, 06:43 PM
Larry,
I agree with your post, for the most part. I don't believe that "all" fiery darts come from the devil. Sometimes they are of our own making.

Romans 5:1 may not say "suffering", but we term "trouble, anguish and pressure" as "suffering". Right?

I do agree with you saying, "It is in the triumphing over the trial, that you prove to the world that your God is bigger than anything the devil can throw at you. It is in the quenching of that feiry trial/dart that God is glorified."

That is an excellent point. I believe that is, also, the point of all posters after reviewing their comments.

That would also be the point of II Corinthians 12:10 "Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong."

I understand your point on the RCC dogma of suffering. I grew up in that and I had an aunt and her children that took that seriously. lol I've seen some, of like faith, that glory in their suffering. I get what you are saying. :D Hilarious to pray for someone that you know doesn't want to be healed. Well, maybe not that funny. Perhaps it's just annoying or ridiculous - a waste of time.

Again, I don't believe that was the point being made here. I think we all understand that our trials bring us the victory if we stay plugged in to Him.

I did appreciate your good comments in your post. :thumbsup

Amen!

Bro-Larry
05-15-2008, 09:48 PM
Bro Larry, So If Im reading this right No one goes thru suffering to minister ? If that is so then heres a scenario for you. Someone confides in a minister that the were abused as a child. Do you think the minister who has gone thru the same thing and been thru the same abuse as well can help minister to the person ? Or do you think just anyone could minister to this person and help them out. Seems to me the one who has been thru it and been healed of it would be of more an effect. Just my opinion though

All scripture in given.....for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction... II Tim 3:16 God is not using the devils tools. He's has given us His word to train us. It doesn't mean can't learn from our experiences, but the word is better.

Bro-Larry
05-15-2008, 09:54 PM
PO, I got a bit preachey with my post, no disrespect intended. God has already richly blessed all His children, but some actually know it. Eph 1:3

Falla39
05-15-2008, 10:46 PM
Paul exhorts Timothy in 2 Tim. 2:11,12.
"It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him.
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us".

Phil.3:10, "That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the
fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

2 Cor.1: "And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers
of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation."

Rom. 8: 17,18 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with
Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be
compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

I sat on the oncology floor of Medical City Dallas, something over a year
ago after our youngest sister had undergone chemo twice and then a bone
marrow transplant to give her a complete new immunune system which
hopefully, would take care of the lymphoma that had invaded her body.

I sat there as the physican's assistant, a very sweet lady in her early 30's
gave Lynn the report pertaining to her blood work, etc., etc. After telling her
everything looked really good, she squatted down and eye level with Lynn
told her. "You always have such a good attitude. People are talking about
you here. People are saying good things about you and I think you should
know!

As she left something dawned on me and I spoke these words. "Lynn, God
is getting glory out of your body and your sweet spirit. You are glorifying
God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. As soon as I said it,
the words of a scripture came to mind. We are the temple of God. How else
is He going to be glorified except in us, His Body.

I Cor.6:20 "For ye are bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body
and in your spirit, which are God's".

I had never thought of it in that way. God was glorified in His Son and in His
holy apostles. And the Bible speaks of in 2 Thess. 1:10 "When he shall come
to be glorified IN his saints, and to be admired IN all them that believe be-
cause our testimony among you was believed in that day".

Just some thoughts.

Blessings,

Falla39

Bro-Larry
05-15-2008, 11:35 PM
To all of you who believe God is using suffering to teach His children.
Please answer me this one question:

"How much suffering have you used to teach your own children?"

OneAccord
05-16-2008, 06:12 AM
God never intended for us to experience death , sickness or poverty. All these come from the devil. Adam and Eve made the choice which opened the door to "Pandora's Box" (TIC). So don't blame God like Job did.

Back in Job's day the devil had access to heaven so he was up there accusing men before God. Now, since Jesus did a number on him, he's been kicked out of heaven and he's down here on earth accusing God before men.

Don't believe the lie of the devil, that God is sending trouble your way to build you up and make you strong. It's the devil sending tribulation your way to destroy you. (Jn 10:10). Jesus came that you might enjoy the God kind of life: ZOE'

Whether you enjoy the ZOE' from God or the tribulation from the devil is your choice. If you choose to embrace suffering, at least it's good that you make the most of it and hold fast your faith in God.

Big Larry- I appreciate your comments in this thread. Its always good to see things from a different perspective. However, its not that I think God sends trouble to build us up or to make us stronger, but its that it is fact that we are made stronger by learning from the troubles that we have. We learn in the fiery furnances of life just as we learn from our mistakes. On of the truest verses in the Bible is Job 14:1 Man [that is] born of a woman [is] of few days, and full of trouble. Troubles are a part of life, just as sickness and death are parts of life. They don't come from God, nor do they always come from the devil. Sometimes trouble comes through our own doing- sometimes through the actions of others. And sometimes, trouble just happens because... well... thats life.

Its interesting that you would refer to Job. No, his troubles didn't come from God- but God used Job's situation to help him see that he had, as all humans do, a character flaw. And, it was in the midst of trials that Job was able to finally see and correct that flaw. So, we too can learn from the problems of life just as Job did. I use a saying in dealing with the problems of life. "We can't have a top without a bottom, can't have a good without a bad". That is to say, if life was all good with no problems, then, we'd never know life is good. We have nothing to compare the "good" with. The Dottie Rambo song says it better than I can:

Life can't be all sunshine, or the flowers would die. The rivers, would be deserts , all barren and dry."

The Bible is full of men and women who learned, not from the "good" of life, but from the bad. Why did it take the children of Israel 40 years to traverse the wilderness when it was only an 11 day journey from Egypt to the border of the Promised Land? (Deu 1:2). Their journey was a learning process. They learned from their mistakes and learned from their troubles. Its not that God sends trouble our way to "teach" us, but He certainly can, and does, teach us a lesson from the troubles of life. I don't agree that tribulation is always the devil trying to destroy us. I believe tribulation is nothing more than a facet of life- its how we react to that tribulation that makes, or breaks, us. If I haven't learned anything from it...then... I failed the "test". To say, however, that tribulation is never used by God as a teaching tool is to discount much of the Bible. Is not tribulation a form of chastisement that God uses to correct His children, just as we use various means to correct behavior in our children? Doesn't the Bible tell us that tribulation works patience?

I don't care for trouble. Don't like it at all. But trouble is inevitable. However, if I have learned something from that trouble, then I have gained and not lost. Maybe that trouble teaches me something about myself just as Job's taught him something about himself (and taught him something about his "friends"). Though, in my POV, the entire story of Job was based on a series of lies, Job benefitted from his trials. He gained from them. He was a better man for it. And, whatever happens to us in this life, if we gain from it, if we benefit from it, then surely we can acknowledge that God used that trouble as a teaching tool.

OneAccord
05-16-2008, 06:30 AM
To all of you who believe God is using suffering to teach His children.
Please answer me this one question:

"How much suffering have you used to teach your own children?"


...and to answer this question: As much as it takes to get them to learn a lesson. Grounding, spanking, denying privileges, assigning "work". Posting a list of rules to follow, that includes no consequences for failure to comply makes the rules ineffective, wouldn't you agree?

But I think the point is being overlooked here. Its not God "sending" tribulation to teach us... is God teaching a lesson from the tribulations and troubles of life. Or stated more correctly, its US learning from our tribuations.

Good discussion- but, I think the point of my orginal post was lost somewhere. My original point was that had I not gone thru what I did with my wife, I wouldn't have known what to say or do to help the brother who recently lost his wife.

OneAccord
05-16-2008, 07:11 AM
In re-reading through this thread, I think the mistaken assumption that tribulation equates punishment is being made, The two are not one in the same. In fact, one has little, if anything to do with the other.

Tribulation, troubles and problems are fact of this flawed life we are living. Just as sickness and death are a part of living, so are problems a fact of life.

Why did my wife have to get sick and die? I don't know. I don't blame the devil, and I certainly don't blame God. If I assess blame at all, it would be on life. Its just the way it is. I don't say tribulation, problems and troubles are punishment (though I certainly do believe God chastizes those He loves), but I do believe troubles come along and can help us to ferret out our shortcomings as in the case of Job. In fact, as one who believes the church will go through a part of the tribulation (but not the wrath of God, see how the two are separate?), I believe the purpose of the Tribulation period is to purge the church of its faults. But that opens up an entirely different discussion. That, IMO, is the the reason we weather the storms of life.

We go thru "tribulation" everytime we pull up to the gas pumps. With gas at a record high (approaching or exceeding 4.00 a gallon) and going higher, we feel we are going through tribulation. And, like the children of Israel ("Whats...manna again!?!, I'm sick of manna!"), we grumble. But... we learn. We learn to conserve gas- shorten our trips- we don't run to town quite as much. We don't take driving for granted as much as we use to. And maybe, we... or I should say I....maybe I will learn to stop grumbling so much. That is the purpose of trouble. To teach us not to grumble and complain- but to trust the Lord.

Hoovie
05-16-2008, 07:19 AM
One thing for sure the world is in the palm of His hand. I want nothing that is outside His greater will.

rgcraig
05-16-2008, 07:33 AM
One Accord,

What a beautiful thing!

Falla39
05-16-2008, 07:37 AM
In rehearsing the wilderness journey with the children of Israel, Moses told them
why God had taken them down this path. (Deut. 8:2)

To humble them.
To prove them.
To see what was in their hearts (What was in their hearts came out their mouth,
grumbling and complaining. Never satisfied. Wanting to turn back.)
Whether they would keep his commandments or no.

We are also on a journey. The path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth
more and more unto the perfect day. The just shall live by his faith. Faith is not what
we see, but what we take hold of, and hang onto, UNTIL that which we do NOT see.
we DO see!

By faith I see, the road's last bending'
Angelic voices, sweetly blending.
O may I hear Him say "Well Done",
Earth's toil is ended, Welcome Home, My Son"!

Blessings,

Falla39

ForeverBlessed
05-16-2008, 08:41 AM
Some might have already mentioned these scriptures... didn't read the whole thread. I will come back as I have time.

Many things we face in this life result in our flesh being crucified so that we become more like Jesus... It is when we learn to handle the things we face in this life with Grace that Jesus is reflected in our life.

Sufferings and afflictions are a part of this natural life and they are used to bend, mold and conform us to his image.


Phil 3:10That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

Romans 8:18 For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

2 Cor 1:5 For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. 6And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. 7And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

Hebrews 2:10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.

Hebrews 10:32 But call to remembrance the former days, in which, after ye were illuminated, ye endured a great fight of afflictions; 33 Partly, whilst ye were made a gazingstock both by reproaches and afflictions; and partly, whilst ye became companions of them that were so used.

1 Peter 4:13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Christ's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.

ForeverBlessed
05-16-2008, 08:55 AM
So let me get this straight.

God is a child abuser. right?? He abuses His children, so they can help others to cope with the abuse, that He is using to help them, which will in turn help them to help someone else to cope with the abuseee......? What's wrong with this picture?

I believe I have suffered as much as anyone here, and it never once made me have a warm fuzzy feeling toward GOD. It instead made me mad at the devil, knowing he is the one causing it.

He is our heavenly father... I don't look at it as abuse.

I am not a child abuser, but you can bet your last dollar that I intentionally step back and let my kids make mistakes that I know they will suffer consequences of…. mainly because I know that they must learn. They will hurt, but they will learn. Pain causes us to learn, change so we don’t experience the same hurt again. Some have thicker skulls than others…. lots of pain finally brings about illumination. “Ahhh… I am not supposed to do that”.

I am not an abuser, but I have consistently whipped some backsides over the last 15 years… I am not a child abuser, but I have required my children to stand and face circumstances that I knew was going to hurt because it builds character.

If I was always there, building them up, making they believe they were perfect kids who could do no wrong, making things easy for them so they didn’t have to strive for the things in this life… I would be doing them a great disservice.

True parental guidance is showing unconditional love throughout every failure, every bruised ego… yeah, even sometimes I am the one inflicting the pain.

Job 5:17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:

Psalm 94:12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;

Falla39
05-16-2008, 09:32 AM
Heb. 5:7,8,9

"Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications
with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and
and was heard in that he feared;

"Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered.

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them
that obeyed him."

Joelel
05-16-2008, 01:18 PM
This morning, it was raining. No work today. So... I decided to go to Scottsboro to look up a pastor I haven't seen in over twenty years. I haven't seen or spoken to this brother in many years, had no idea if he was even still living. He was, as it turns out. I found out through a mutual friend where this pastor lives and I went to see him. (He is still pastoring, visited his chrurch tonight).

When I got to his house I learned that he had just recently buried his 2nd wife. (His first wife died years ago). The brother was devastated. He, at first didn't recoignize me so I introduced myself and he remembered. He invited me in and I found that he was sorting thru his wifes things.(Oh, how I recall how painful that is). He kept turning to me with tear filled eyes saying, Brother, what am I going to do with out her?". I just let him talk. He poured his soul out - all of his pent-up emotion came flooding out... I waited...I listened. I cried with him...tried to console him.

Later, as I got ready to leave... he said, "Oh, brother, you don't know how much you helped me." Actually, I did nothing... I just let him talk. Then he added, "Its like you went thru this with me". It was then, as I was ready to walk out the door, that I said, "Brother, you remember my first wife...how she died in 1988?". He remembered. Then, I told him about losing Lola in February of this year. He knew then how it seemed I had went thru this with him. Had things not happened with Lola as they did, I wouldn't have known what to do to help this brother in the Lord. So... God has a way of teaching us thru our suffering, doesn't He?

Amen,He teaches us many things by sufferings,tribulation,chasten,all the same.Even Jesus Heb.5
[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Heb.12
[5] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
[11] Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Rom.8
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2Cor.1
[5] For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
[6] And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
[7] And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

Philp.3:[7] But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
[8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
[9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
[10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death


Heb.2
[9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
[10] For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
[18] For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Rhoni
05-16-2008, 07:11 PM
Big Larry- I appreciate your comments in this thread. Its always good to see things from a different perspective. However, its not that I think God sends trouble to build us up or to make us stronger, but its that it is fact that we are made stronger by learning from the troubles that we have. We learn in the fiery furnances of life just as we learn from our mistakes. On of the truest verses in the Bible is Job 14:1 Man [that is] born of a woman [is] of few days, and full of trouble. Troubles are a part of life, just as sickness and death are parts of life. They don't come from God, nor do they always come from the devil. Sometimes trouble comes through our own doing- sometimes through the actions of others. And sometimes, trouble just happens because... well... thats life.

Its interesting that you would refer to Job. No, his troubles didn't come from God- but God used Job's situation to help him see that he had, as all humans do, a character flaw. And, it was in the midst of trials that Job was able to finally see and correct that flaw. So, we too can learn from the problems of life just as Job did. I use a saying in dealing with the problems of life. "We can't have a top without a bottom, can't have a good without a bad". That is to say, if life was all good with no problems, then, we'd never know life is good. We have nothing to compare the "good" with. The Dottie Rambo song says it better than I can:

Life can't be all sunshine, or the flowers would die. The rivers, would be deserts , all barren and dry."

The Bible is full of men and women who learned, not from the "good" of life, but from the bad. Why did it take the children of Israel 40 years to traverse the wilderness when it was only an 11 day journey from Egypt to the border of the Promised Land? (Deu 1:2). Their journey was a learning process. They learned from their mistakes and learned from their troubles. Its not that God sends trouble our way to "teach" us, but He certainly can, and does, teach us a lesson from the troubles of life. I don't agree that tribulation is always the devil trying to destroy us. I believe tribulation is nothing more than a facet of life- its how we react to that tribulation that makes, or breaks, us. If I haven't learned anything from it...then... I failed the "test". To say, however, that tribulation is never used by God as a teaching tool is to discount much of the Bible. Is not tribulation a form of chastisement that God uses to correct His children, just as we use various means to correct behavior in our children? Doesn't the Bible tell us that tribulation works patience?

I don't care for trouble. Don't like it at all. But trouble is inevitable. However, if I have learned something from that trouble, then I have gained and not lost. Maybe that trouble teaches me something about myself just as Job's taught him something about himself (and taught him something about his "friends"). Though, in my POV, the entire story of Job was based on a series of lies, Job benefitted from his trials. He gained from them. He was a better man for it. And, whatever happens to us in this life, if we gain from it, if we benefit from it, then surely we can acknowledge that God used that trouble as a teaching tool.


This is good stuff Bro. OneAccord!:highfive

Rhoni
05-16-2008, 07:11 PM
Amen,He teaches us many things by sufferings,tribulation,chasten,all the same.Even Jesus Heb.5
[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Heb.12
[5] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
[11] Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Rom.8
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2Cor.1
[5] For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
[6] And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
[7] And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

Philp.3:[7] But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
[8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
[9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
[10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death


Heb.2
[9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
[10] For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
[18] For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Awesome post!:happydance

Bro-Larry
05-16-2008, 07:51 PM
He is our heavenly father... I don't look at it as abuse.

I am not a child abuser, but you can bet your last dollar that I intentionally step back and let my kids make mistakes that I know they will suffer consequences of…. mainly because I know that they must learn. They will hurt, but they will learn. Pain causes us to learn, change so we don’t experience the same hurt again. Some have thicker skulls than others…. lots of pain finally brings about illumination. “Ahhh… I am not supposed to do that”.

I am not an abuser, but I have consistently whipped some backsides over the last 15 years… I am not a child abuser, but I have required my children to stand and face circumstances that I knew was going to hurt because it builds character.

If I was always there, building them up, making they believe they were perfect kids who could do no wrong, making things easy for them so they didn’t have to strive for the things in this life… I would be doing them a great disservice.

True parental guidance is showing unconditional love throughout every failure, every bruised ego… yeah, even sometimes I am the one inflicting the pain.

Job 5:17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:

Psalm 94:12 Blessed is the man whom thou chastenest, O LORD, and teachest him out of thy law;

FB, you did pretty good. I don't see how you could agree with my post more. The word in II Tim 3:16 is decribing child training. I like your methods, if a child will not take instruction, then let them suffer reasonable consequences, but not anything life threatening.

Adults are different if they are so bullheaded that they won't listen, God will let them suffer even life threatening consequences. (e.i. forty years wandering in the desert, till they learned something? No they didn't learn a thing, they died)

Bro-Larry
05-16-2008, 08:17 PM
Its interesting that you would refer to Job. No, his troubles didn't come from God- but God used Job's situation...

God didn't......(that's my point) Maybe Job did.....but God didn't. God can't. God can't do anything unless it agrees with His word, else He would be a liar.

The Dottie Rambo song says it better than I can:

Life can't be all sunshine, or the flowers would die. The rivers, would be deserts , all barren and dry."

Bro OA, I know this a delicate subject for me to be discussing with you, so I certainly mean no pain for you Dear Bro. Most of her songs are soaked in unbelief pain and suffering. She suffered a lot and she liked to tell you about it. What ever your mental focus is locked onto, will become the dominant force in your world. That's just the way the world is set up. This is a word driven planet. Whatever you talk about will multiply.

Why did it take the children of Israel 40 years to traverse the wilderness when it was only an 11 day journey from Egypt to the border of the Promised Land? (Deu 1:2). Their journey was a learning process. They learned from their mistakes and learned from their troubles.

They didn't learn "nuthin". They died in the wilderness.

It was the devil who caused life to be as it is today. That's why I blame it all on the devil.

Bro-Larry
05-16-2008, 08:23 PM
Most of you seem to be confusing the child training of the Lord thru His word, (which we should all embrace); with the devasting, catostrophic tragedies that the devil brings to everyone of us, trying to get us to accept. I just don't accept it. John 10;10 says the only reason he comes around is to steal kill and destroy.

Bro-Larry
05-16-2008, 08:30 PM
Amen,He teaches us many things by sufferings,tribulation,chasten,all the same.Even Jesus Heb.5
[8] Though he were a Son, yet learned he obedience by the things which he suffered;

Heb.12
[5] And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him:
[6] For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
[7] If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
[10] For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness.
[11] Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.

Rom.8
[17] And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2Cor.1
[5] For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ.
[6] And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation.
[7] And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

Philp.3:[7] But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
[8] Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
[9] And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
[10] That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death


Heb.2
[9] But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
[10] For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
[18] For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.

Joelel, sorry bro but none of your scrips have anything to do with God killing people or giving people cancer, TB, etc, in order to teach them something.

Bro-Larry
05-16-2008, 08:39 PM
Paul exhorts Timothy in 2 Tim. 2:11,12.
"It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him.
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him; if we deny him, he also will deny us".

Phil.3:10, "That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the
fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;

2 Cor.1: "And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers
of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation."

Rom. 8: 17,18 "And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with
Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be
compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.

I sat on the oncology floor of Medical City Dallas, something over a year
ago after our youngest sister had undergone chemo twice and then a bone
marrow transplant to give her a complete new immunune system which
hopefully, would take care of the lymphoma that had invaded her body.

I sat there as the physican's assistant, a very sweet lady in her early 30's
gave Lynn the report pertaining to her blood work, etc., etc. After telling her
everything looked really good, she squatted down and eye level with Lynn
told her. "You always have such a good attitude. People are talking about
you here. People are saying good things about you and I think you should
know!

As she left something dawned on me and I spoke these words. "Lynn, God
is getting glory out of your body and your sweet spirit. You are glorifying
God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's. As soon as I said it,
the words of a scripture came to mind. We are the temple of God. How else
is He going to be glorified except in us, His Body.

I Cor.6:20 "For ye are bought with a price; therefore glorify God in your body
and in your spirit, which are God's".

I had never thought of it in that way. God was glorified in His Son and in His
holy apostles. And the Bible speaks of in 2 Thess. 1:10 "When he shall come
to be glorified IN his saints, and to be admired IN all them that believe be-
cause our testimony among you was believed in that day".

Just some thoughts.

Blessings,

Falla39

Sorry Sis, God didn't give Lynn cancer so she could save someone. Only Jesus' sufferings were good enough to save anyone. It is to her credit that she kept a good attitude.

None of your scriptures have anything to do with God killing his children or making them sick to teach them something..

chosenbyone
05-16-2008, 08:42 PM
Most of you seem to be confusing the child training of the Lord thru His word, (which we should all embrace); with the devasting, catostrophic tragedies that the devil brings to everyone of us, trying to get us to accept. I just don't accept it. John 10;10 says the only reason he comes around is to steal kill and destroy.

Well, I read through this thread and I sorta felt that perhaps you were confusing what some posters meant by God using their trails (suffering) to minister to others.

I don't believe that anyone here felt that God sent suffering to them, but he allowed them to reach others that found themselves in similar situations that they had experienced.

It would be even more tragic if we failed to connect and help those that have walked a road similar to ours in this journey called life!

Bro-Larry
05-16-2008, 09:03 PM
EXTRAPOLATION happens.

chosenbyone
05-16-2008, 09:07 PM
EXTRAPOLATION happens.

All the time, Bro Larry! :crazywalls

Maximilia
05-16-2008, 09:17 PM
Bro. Larry:

You're giving me pause for thought!!!! Truly suffering is over-rated!

Your ideas are somewhat shock therapy!

Um--I'm a little dopey at the moment because I just took some powerful migraine medication but I have enough cohesiveness to say that I've been through quite a bit in the last year, and undoubtedly a lot of it was sent from Lucifer himself. It certainly hasn't been very glorifying to God. The only testimony I have is that others can see my life and see that I'm still faithful to God.

I just got off the phone with my beautiful bible school student daughter (that I've sacrificed quite tremendously to send to bible college). She was tearfully telling me how her future monther-in-law (apostolic to the bone) gave her the cold shoulder, was rude and mean. Why is this so acceptable in our ranks? I'm so sick of this. I've put up with meanness and jealousy from other women in the church and I'm tired (yes, I'm pretty and talented--I realize that's a liability). Why is attitude not a STANDARD!!! Why isn't maturity important. This breaks my heart. If I didn't like my future son in law, I'd just put the kabosh on the whole mess.

Anyway, I'm gonna think about your ideas. I certainly think something weird goes on when we have a martyrdom mentality.

Rhoni
05-17-2008, 06:51 AM
Bro. Larry:

You're giving me pause for thought!!!! Truly suffering is over-rated!

Your ideas are somewhat shock therapy!

Um--I'm a little dopey at the moment because I just took some powerful migraine medication but I have enough cohesiveness to say that I've been through quite a bit in the last year, and undoubtedly a lot of it was sent from Lucifer himself. It certainly hasn't been very glorifying to God. The only testimony I have is that others can see my life and see that I'm still faithful to God.

I just got off the phone with my beautiful bible school student daughter (that I've sacrificed quite tremendously to send to bible college). She was tearfully telling me how her future monther-in-law (apostolic to the bone) gave her the cold shoulder, was rude and mean. Why is this so acceptable in our ranks? I'm so sick of this. I've put up with meanness and jealousy from other women in the church and I'm tired (yes, I'm pretty and talented--I realize that's a liability). Why is attitude not a STANDARD!!! Why isn't maturity important. This breaks my heart. If I didn't like my future son in law, I'd just put the kabosh on the whole mess.

Anyway, I'm gonna think about your ideas. I certainly think something weird goes on when we have a martyrdom mentality.

Please get some pre-marital counseling for your daughter and her fiance. She is marrying into a family that is going to consistently drag her down if she is not able to stand up for herself. She also needs to know if her fiance/future husband will stand with her or them.

I agree - attitude is a 'standard' that should be set in place even more so than the 'outer standard' [not saying to do away with them] after all God sees and looks on the heart. And we all know that from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.


Blessings, Rhoni

Bro-Larry
05-17-2008, 05:08 PM
Please get some pre-marital counseling for your daughter and her fiance. She is marrying into a family that is going to consistently drag her down if she is not able to stand up for herself. She also needs to know if her fiance/future husband will stand with her or them.

I agree - attitude is a 'standard' that should be set in place even more so than the 'outer standard' [not saying to do away with them] after all God sees and looks on the heart. And we all know that from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.


Blessings, Rhoni

That's good advise, Rhoni.

crakjak
05-17-2008, 08:45 PM
My point is God does not send tribulation and suffering to us. All feiry darts and trials come from the devil. They all should be resisted vigorously with the shield of faith.

Now here is the point of my point, the very sharp point of it is this-----that it is not the "going through or suffering through a trial" that benefits you or glorifies God. It is in the triumphing over the trial, that you prove to the world that your God is bigger than anything the devil can throw at you. It is in the quenching of that feiry trial/dart that God is glorified.

In I Pe 1:7 it indicates to me that after your shield of faith has been used against the fire, and your faith is stronger than the fire, (your faith puts out the feiry dart) ---- then and only then does your faith give praise, honour, and glory to Jesus Christ.

If the trial proves to be stronger than your faith and you have to suffer through the trial (like most people do), then you have given no glory to God.

Go to that thread a few weeks ago where those poor ignorant parents let their little girl die and see if anyone posted that those parents' actions glorified God?

You gave three scriptures and the word "suffering" is not in any of them.
Then you made this statement: "If we are going to mature in Christ, we are going to suffer..." The context of all three scriptures is that when you stand victoriously over a trial or tribulation then you can rejoice!!!

I don't like suffering!!!! I only believe in the suffering of my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Because He suffered, I believe I don't have to. He took my suffering, and I believe in what His suffering did for me. I believe that His suffering delivered me from the sin, sickness, disease, poverty, and death from which I could not deliver myself. I believe in the radical grace of God.

That, my friend, is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

It is deeply ingrained in RCC Dogma, that people have to suffer. The Buddists monks think their suffering will gain them God's favor. The Islamists believe that also. Almost every religion in the world embraces suffering as major tenent of faith. This obsession with suffering borders on idolotry. They are offering another sacrifice. There is only One True Sacrifice--Jesus.

Preach, Brother, Preach.

I choose the yoke of Jesus, and He said it is easy and it is light. I have suffered and I don't like any of it, I don't cozy up to it nor embrace any of it. I wish I could say that I have always defeated it, but I still resist it and declare Jesus my Lord.

Maximilia
05-18-2008, 10:18 PM
Hi All,

Hmmmmm! I had quite a weekend of suffering. Is my loving heavenly father gearing me up to minister to others. (I'm being cynical but--I CERTAINLY HOPE NOT!) I totally bless my enemies--those who've stolen from me, those who've made my life hellish, etc., but really now--What kind of a mean dad would have to teach me in such a stupid way?

I truly am convinced that much of what I have encountered has been sent from the evil one and that God is going to give me great deliverance and victory as I lift the shield of faith.

Maximilia
05-18-2008, 10:38 PM
On a heavier note, when I think of the Myanamar and China victims, I know that I know very little about suffering and have so much to be thankful for. Again though, I know Christ has come to deliver and save, and the enemy wants to destroy everyone.

Bro-Larry
05-19-2008, 04:01 PM
I do believe that the devil in out to try (test and tempt) every man's work of what sort it is, whether wood, hay, stubble, gold, silver, precious stones, but I do not believe God our good and loving heavenly father is "trying, testing or tempting us. The Bible says he is always there making a way for us to escape temptations.

"Let no man say, when he is tempted, I am tempted of the Lord, for God cannot be tempted of evil, and neither tempteth He any man".