PDA

View Full Version : Homeschooling Parents


Rico
05-24-2008, 10:52 AM
Gang, I have a problem I am hoping you homeschooling parents can help me with. My middle daughter is having some serious issues with math. Basically, she is flunking math in a big way. I've thought about pulling her out of school to homeschool her, but that isn't feasible for us, either financially or timewise. However, I thought I could take advantage of the summer break and give her some additional instruction here at home. What do y'all suggest? Math has been an issue for her since day one. Do I go back to the beginning, and get 1st grade materials and work up from there? She is going to the 4th grade next school year. Also, what math program would be a good one to work at home like this? Thanks.

Sherri
05-24-2008, 10:56 AM
Gang, I have a problem I am hoping you homeschooling parents can help me with. My middle daughter is having some serious issues with math. Basically, she is flunking math in a big way. I've thought about pulling her out of school to homeschool her, but that isn't feasible for us, either financially or timewise. However, I thought I could take advantage of the summer break and give her some additional instruction here at home. What do y'all suggest? Math has been an issue for her since day one. Do I go back to the beginning, and get 1st grade materials and work up from there? She is going to the 4th grade next school year. Also, what math program would be a good one to work at home like this? Thanks.A Beka and Saxon math are both excellent, but are pretty hard. It might make sense for you to just go to Walmart and get some of those math workbooks for the different age groups and start from the lower levels and work up this summer. Math was always an easy subject for Zac, but a difficult one for Ashley to grasp. They are just wired differently.

MrsMcD
05-24-2008, 11:00 AM
Rico,

When my son struggles with math, I look online for instructions on how to work out the problems and I get work sheets. It really helps me to be able to explain it to him. One site that I really like is www.aaamath.com.

Pressing-On
05-24-2008, 11:15 AM
Rico,
The best thing to do is get a refresher book to pinpoint what concept/concepts she is found to be weak.

I have this book by Steck-Vaughn. They are an awesome company. My mother was using this company when it was illegal to homeschool. :D


http://www.valorebooks.com/Search/ISBN/9780811452243

It is only $15 and well worth it. I would suggest copying the lessons so that you can use them again.

http://www.valorebooks.com/StoreFront/GetImage?ISBN=0811452247&Format=W120

Found it cheaper here. You'll have to read the reviews to see what condition the books are in.

http://www.alibris.co.uk/search/books/qwork/8257704/used/Wwn%20Refresher%204th%20Ed

If she doesn't get a concept then you need to present it to her in the form of some type of game you can play together. That always works. :thumbsup

Here's the Table of Contents

Unit 1: Whole Numbers
Unit 2: Whole Numbers
Unit 3: The Meaning and Use of Fractions
Unit 4: Mulitiplication and Division of Fractions
Unit 5: Working with Decimals
Unit 6: Percents
Unit 7: Measurement
Unit 8: Solving and Using Equations
Final Review
Mastery Test
Answer Key

This is the best part:

Where to go for Help.
The table below lists the problems in the Mastery Test and the pages on which the corresponding skills and concepts are taught and practiced. If you missed one or more problems, find the page number or numbers that correspond to the number of each problem missed. Then turn to these pages, review the teaching, and practice the skills by doing one or more of the problems. Then correct the problems that you missed on this test.

I think this book will be a huge help and if your public school taught her to count numbers by counting dots - they are idiots!!! That is what our public school did in Kindergarten - I pulled my daughter out. They also were giving her words to memorize and not teaching phonics. I asked them about it. The teacher said, "Oh, we should get into that next year."

WHAT? You are teaching her to memorize words and not teaching phonics now?!!!!!!!!!! Lord, my tax dollars have been wasted!!!!!!!!!!!! Don't get me started!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :killinme

Pressing-On
05-24-2008, 11:39 AM
Rico,
Another thing you can do, which is even less expensive. Use this book by Peggy Kaye. You can get it in your local library or order it on inter-library loan. Being that you want to do this on her summer vacation, I think going the game way would be more productive and she won't feel like it's work. Try this first!

It is excellent. When my kids were the age of your daughter we played all the games in this book. My daughter is 21 and operating her own Boutique - pays cash for all merchandise and nobody can walk into her store and talk that blonde haired, blued eyed girl into anything. She's sharp as a whip!

I believe her math skills are attributed these programs that we used. I also used Math-It, which is expensive, but a fun Math game program.

Anyway, I'm on a roll!!!!

Here's the book by Peggy Kaye. You can purchase this at Amazon if you want. Only $10.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514D2PS26BL._SL500_BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg

Tina
05-24-2008, 11:53 AM
Rico,
Another thing you can do, which is even less expensive. Use this book by Peggy Kaye. You can get it in your local library or order it on inter-library loan. Being that you want to do this on her summer vacation, I think going the game way would be more productive and she won't feel like it's work. Try this first!

It is excellent. When my kids were the age of your daughter we played all the games in this book. My daughter is 21 and operating her own Boutique - pays cash for all merchandise and nobody can walk into her store and talk that blonde haired, blued eyed girl into anything. She's sharp as a whip!

I believe her math skills are attributed these programs that we used. I also used Math-It, which is expensive, but a fun Math game program.

Anyway, I'm on a roll!!!!

Here's the book by Peggy Kaye. You can purchase this at Amazon if you want. Only $10.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/514D2PS26BL._SL500_BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_.jpg


I will say this one is great! You recommended it to me when I was having trouble getting Michael interested in doing his math. He HATES math.... but he LOVES playing math games. ;) It's a start.... and this book has been great! Thanks again for recommending it. :)

Rico
05-24-2008, 12:46 PM
Wow. This book is only $11 thru Amazon. I can afford to spend around $100 to get this knocked out over the summer. I am getting worried that she is falling more and more behind because of this math thing. I am willing to entertain any suggestions from those of you who have been successful at making good math students out of your children.

Rico
05-24-2008, 12:50 PM
What about funbrain.com? Have any of you checked that site out? They have educational games the kids can play on that site.

Cindy
05-24-2008, 12:59 PM
Rico, she may be one of the probably thousands of kids that can't learn math the conventional way. So maybe games and internet/computer is the way for you to go for her.

nahkoe
05-24-2008, 01:01 PM
For a summer enrichment thing I'd steer very clear of curriculum based homeschooling supplies. She's obviously not thriving with that approach, I'd try something totally different.

It seems to me she's struggling with concepts if it's been a struggle from day one. That's ok. Not everyone does math the same way, but everyone can do math. :) It might take some time to figure out how she does math.

I would get some dominos (or you can play at pogo.com). You can play turbo 21 at pogo too, it's a card game making columns that add up to 21, a speed game. It's FUN, my kids have all loved it, and I've noticed that my brain works better with math after I play it for a few days. It must exercise that part of the brain. Or, have her play blackjack. lol I think pogo has a version of that too that's ok.

I haven't looked at the math games book mentioned, but it looks good.

Does she like to cook or bake? Have her do LOTS and talk about it while you're doing it. Any measuring is math, a lot of it is fractions. My oldest figured out fractions on his own while cutting croissants one day. (note..he's got a math brain, I wouldn't expect any child to actually work it out on their own, but the goal here is exposure...if you cut a circle into 4ths..and from there into 8ths and into 16ths...and talk about it while you're doing it, she's going to be exposed that much more to the concept of fractions)

If you can figure out what some of the concepts are that she's really struggling with (multiplication tables, fractions, addition/subtraction, etc) I may have some more ideas too.

We play math games in our heads all the time. We're geeks..go ahead, say it. We discuss probability and statistics and do skip counting when we're driving. We try to see how long of division problems we can do in our heads. We do the same thing with multiplication or division on paper. We'll estimate an answer, and then work it out and see who guessed the closest. My kids play with money all the time, both US and foreign. They have tape measures in the toybox too. And rulers. We used to do a lot of baking when I was home more. And, I do let them play computer games. ALL computer games have a math foundation, even if the game itself is not a math game. Thinking mathematically isn't all about numbers, it's very conceptual, and ART is also very math heavy. Jigsaw puzzles are good.

I think your biggest goal this summer should be to convince her she can do math, and that she enjoys it. Math anxiety is extremely real, and it will completely destroy a person's ability to do math. If you can break the anxiety and the fear pattern, the concepts usually follow pretty quickly. I'm going to guess this may be the most difficult part of helping her, finding out what her mental block is and helping her break that. It'll also go the furthest towards helping her succeed.

Oh! Get some base 10 blocks and let her play with those, they're about $20 for a set. They're really, really good for visual learners, math can be difficult to visualize and these sort of hands on manipulatives are beneficial for those who need to see it and/or touch it to learn it.

Gang, I have a problem I am hoping you homeschooling parents can help me with. My middle daughter is having some serious issues with math. Basically, she is flunking math in a big way. I've thought about pulling her out of school to homeschool her, but that isn't feasible for us, either financially or timewise. However, I thought I could take advantage of the summer break and give her some additional instruction here at home. What do y'all suggest? Math has been an issue for her since day one. Do I go back to the beginning, and get 1st grade materials and work up from there? She is going to the 4th grade next school year. Also, what math program would be a good one to work at home like this? Thanks.

nahkoe
05-24-2008, 01:03 PM
Rico, she may be one of the probably thousands of kids that can't learn math the conventional way. So maybe games and internet/computer is the way for you to go for her.

Yep, I'm curious is she has to touch/feel/see things to learn them? Rico, is she extremely tactile/visual in her learning style? If so I have a lot of ideas (I am, I struggled through math my entire life, gave up and dropped out of highschool over it, finally went back to college and struggled through my first semester of pre-credit math and FINALLY GOT IT...now I tutor and am, as you recall from another thread, considering teaching it. :))

James Griffin
05-24-2008, 01:04 PM
Gang, I have a problem I am hoping you homeschooling parents can help me with. My middle daughter is having some serious issues with math. Basically, she is flunking math in a big way. I've thought about pulling her out of school to homeschool her, but that isn't feasible for us, either financially or timewise. However, I thought I could take advantage of the summer break and give her some additional instruction here at home. What do y'all suggest? Math has been an issue for her since day one. Do I go back to the beginning, and get 1st grade materials and work up from there? She is going to the 4th grade next school year. Also, what math program would be a good one to work at home like this? Thanks.

http://school.discoveryeducation.com/schrockguide/math.html

Lists numerous online resources

Rico
05-24-2008, 01:07 PM
Just to give y'all some background information on my daughter: She is my artistic child. This girl can draw pictures of princesses and dragons, and horses like nobody's business. I know she's very smart and talented that way. But, she has never been very good at dealing with the structured environment at school. To her, school is a social event, not a learning event. :) I've tried telling her teachers that they need to find other ways of teaching her than the standard methods they use, but nothing has really worked well. What I'd really like to do is find some sort of assessment she could take that would tell me what kind of learner she is, and then find a program geared for her style of learning.

Cindy
05-24-2008, 01:12 PM
Just to give y'all some background information on my daughter: She is my artistic child. This girl can draw pictures of princesses and dragons, and horses like nobody's business. I know she's very smart and talented that way. But, she has never been very good at dealing with the structured environment at school. To her, school is a social event, not a learning event. :) I've tried telling her teachers that they need to find other ways of teaching her than the standard methods they use, but nothing has really worked well. What I'd really like to do is find some sort of assessment she could take that would tell me what kind of learner she is, and then find a program geared for her style of learning.

Around here there is a place called Sylvan Learning Center, specifically for children that may just need tutoring in one or more subjects. It does not take the place of their regular school. But I think your last suggestion is a good one.

Rico
05-24-2008, 01:35 PM
Around here there is a place called Sylvan Learning Center, specifically for children that may just need tutoring in one or more subjects. It does not take the place of their regular school. But I think your last suggestion is a good one.

I've heard of Sylvan before, but I don't know much about them. I can just about bet that doing something like that is out of our price range, though. It would be nice if I could afford a tutor to come in here and teach her. One more reason to hit the lottery!!! :D

Rico
05-24-2008, 01:37 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions, gang. And thank you to those who have pm me with your ideas and tips. It looks like I am going to have to devote some time to researching all these alternatives. :)

Cindy
05-24-2008, 01:41 PM
I've heard of Sylvan before, but I don't know much about them. I can just about bet that doing something like that is out of our price range, though. It would be nice if I could afford a tutor to come in here and teach her. One more reason to hit the lottery!!! :D

My daughter in law goes to garage sales, the Goodwill, and other places that have very inexpensive books on a lot of subjects. She even found one a few years ago that a teacher had all kinds of materials for just the grade she was looking for. Will be praying for y'all to find help in your price range. And you're at least trying to find a way to help your child instead of just leaving it up to the public schools. :highfive :thumbsup :yourock

Rico
05-24-2008, 01:48 PM
My daughter in law goes to garage sales, the Goodwill, and other places that have very inexpensive books on a lot of subjects. She even found one a few years ago that a teacher had all kinds of materials for just the grade she was looking for. Will be praying for y'all to find help in your price range. And you're at least trying to find a way to help your child instead of just leaving it up to the public schools. :highfive :thumbsup :yourock

I just know that my daughter is different, and I'd hate to see her get held back. This issue with her and math has been building the last couple of school years, and I feel like it's time for us to step in and try something different. She's destined to do something artistic with her life, but I know she has to get through these schooling years first. I don't expect for any of my children to perform at any level other than what they are capable of, but I know she's smart enough to learn this math.

Tina
05-24-2008, 02:07 PM
Does the school your daughter attends have what they call peer tutors? Some of the local schools here have them, and they have an older child from a higher grade who has mastered the concepts to work one on one with a younger child that needs a little extra help. I've heard good things about the program. It's really a good thing for parents who want their children to have extra help, but can't afford to pay for a tutor to come in and help. If my son were still in public school, I would definitely sign him up for a peer tutor.

Cindy
05-24-2008, 02:11 PM
Just to give y'all some background information on my daughter: She is my artistic child. This girl can draw pictures of princesses and dragons, and horses like nobody's business. I know she's very smart and talented that way. But, she has never been very good at dealing with the structured environment at school. To her, school is a social event, not a learning event. :) I've tried telling her teachers that they need to find other ways of teaching her than the standard methods they use, but nothing has really worked well. What I'd really like to do is find some sort of assessment she could take that would tell me what kind of learner she is, and then find a program geared for her style of learning.

Okay I understand, I think some studies have shown that people's brains are wired different. They are not stupid or unlearnable. My strong suit was languages, not math.

Rico
05-24-2008, 02:15 PM
Does the school your daughter attends have what they call peer tutors? Some of the local schools here have them, and they have an older child from a higher grade who has mastered the concepts to work one on one with a younger child that needs a little extra help. I've heard good things about the program. It's really a good thing for parents who want their children to have extra help, but can't afford to pay for a tutor to come in and help. If my son were still in public school, I would definitely sign him up for a peer tutor.

They don't offer that around here. However, my oldest daughter could help her, and I am sure she'd be willing to give it a shot. I will talk to her about it.

nahkoe
05-24-2008, 02:20 PM
I just know that my daughter is different, and I'd hate to see her get held back. This issue with her and math has been building the last couple of school years, and I feel like it's time for us to step in and try something different. She's destined to do something artistic with her life, but I know she has to get through these schooling years first. I don't expect for any of my children to perform at any level other than what they are capable of, but I know she's smart enough to learn this math.

Ok, this was me. lol She's probably a visual learner. Telling her probably doesn't actually accomplish much, and that's probably how the school approaches it. "Here, you do this and this and this happens". That doesn't mean a thing to me. I have to see it, and if I can find a way to touch it I'm even better off.

The base 10 blocks would be fantastic for her.

And dominos.

Here's a link to a puzzle game that is fun. :) http://wellgames.com/free_online/patchworkz/ I'm not familiar with this site, but the only other one where I know it is I am familiar with and wouldn't suggest at all (addictinggames.com) This one doesn't seem to have anything offensive on this page at least.

http://www.princetonol.com/groups/iad/lessons/middle/mathsci.htm#Bridges

This is the sort of approach I'm going to guess will work well for her. You need to make math make sense. I discovered I was hung up in a perpetual cycle, I couldn't get to the advanced math because I couldn't figure out why the basic concepts mattered, and without them I couldn't actually understand the more advanced stuff. I actually did some backwards learning that finally got me understand what was going on (I needed to understand trig functions for an engineering course, before ever seeing them in math..I had to learn from WHY we need them instead of how the math book presented it..once I realized that, I applied that concept to the math I was struggling with and all of a sudden everything clicked).

Hands on is probably going to be good for her. Quilting, baking, base 10 blocks, tanagrams, etc.

http://www.mathartfun.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/index.html

jaxfam6
05-24-2008, 03:01 PM
Gang, I have a problem I am hoping you homeschooling parents can help me with. My middle daughter is having some serious issues with math. Basically, she is flunking math in a big way. I've thought about pulling her out of school to homeschool her, but that isn't feasible for us, either financially or timewise. However, I thought I could take advantage of the summer break and give her some additional instruction here at home. What do y'all suggest? Math has been an issue for her since day one. Do I go back to the beginning, and get 1st grade materials and work up from there? She is going to the 4th grade next school year. Also, what math program would be a good one to work at home like this? Thanks.

For math we found Abeka to be what worked well for our boys

Pressing-On
05-24-2008, 06:05 PM
I will say this one is great! You recommended it to me when I was having trouble getting Michael interested in doing his math. He HATES math.... but he LOVES playing math games. ;) It's a start.... and this book has been great! Thanks again for recommending it. :)

You are welcome, Tina. My sister "Tina" is also using this for her kids. LOL!

Another younger sister is using Peggy's other books and really likes them. Her daughter isn't doing well with textbooks right now. I told her to forgo the textbooks. It isn't going to help her if she isn't interested.

That is the beauty of homeschooling. Each child is different and they need special attention. :thumbsup

Rico,
Find out what concept/concepts she is weak in and go from there. You can't help her if you don't know. I am not for on-line Math. I think it needs to be something she can see and touch.

Basically you will mainly need posterboard, markers and a few inexpensive items for the Peggy Kaye games. If your daughter is an artist she will love getting the Board games ready for you to participate in with her and you will enjoy the games. I know I did. Mainly I didn't have to think during that time. Algebra is another story - DVD!

I prayed when I got frustrated during our homeschooling years and the Lord would always show me exactly what I needed to do. So much so that one day I was washing dishes and the Lord spoke to me and told me that my daughter was cheating on her Math. lol

I approached her and her eyes got real big! She was getting the Teacher's Manuel when I would run to the Post Office in the mornings. :toofunny

It was a valuable lesson as to how much the Lord loved her that He would stop her from injuring herself further.

Anyway, we didn't use a textbook until 6th grade and moved smoothly into the Saxon series. Love Saxon. They are now on DVD for a classroom presentation.

Homeschooling just keeps getting better!!! :thumbsup

Disclaimer: Homeschooling is not for every family. It must be a unanimous 100% across the board agreement between both parents and the children. The parents can't be the only ones wanting it. It does not help the child if the child is unhappy.

Rico
05-24-2008, 07:17 PM
Rico,

When my son struggles with math, I look online for instructions on how to work out the problems and I get work sheets. It really helps me to be able to explain it to him. One site that I really like is www.aaamath.com.

Ok. I checked this one out and I kinda like it. Can you give me some more information on it?

James Griffin
05-24-2008, 11:15 PM
http://school.discoveryeducation.com/schrockguide/math.html

Lists numerous online resources

Bump for Rico

This link has several resources, it was suggested during the Alternate Certification programs for teachers.

aaamath.com is the first one listed. :-)

LadyChocolate
05-25-2008, 08:16 PM
hey Rico, my brother! How are ya? I just logged in for the first time in a while and please forgive me if I am repeating what anyone else has suggested.. Anyway, here goes... i would start with a diagnostic test to see where she is. It will tell you exactly where you would need to pick up with her schooling. Alpha Omega Math is pretty good. We use Horizon's but AOP is good also. And it might not be overwhelming for her. But for sure, get a diagnostic test for her. Have a jolly day my brother!

Cindy
05-25-2008, 08:24 PM
hey Rico, my brother! How are ya? I just logged in for the first time in a while and please forgive me if I am repeating what anyone else has suggested.. Anyway, here goes... i would start with a diagnostic test to see where she is. It will tell you exactly where you would need to pick up with her schooling. Alpha Omega Math is pretty good. We use Horizon's but AOP is good also. And it might not be overwhelming for her. But for sure, get a diagnostic test for her. Have a jolly day my brother!

About time you got here missy. Whatcha been up to? Been missing seeing your pretty face here. :)

LadyChocolate
05-25-2008, 08:28 PM
About time you got here missy. Whatcha been up to? Been missing seeing your pretty face here. :)

Oh! :tissue you are sooo sweet! I have been so busy! Lordchocolate has that old devil flu bug :girlytantrum. my children are finishing up school and I am planning my 5year olds graduation party. He has been in 1st grade for about a month but I promised him a kinder grad party like his brothers had. I was also down in Kansas again...stayed real busy while I was there.... It was really sad because I was so close to Hobby Lobby and I did not even go...:tissue

But thank you for caring enough to ask about me! How sweet you are!

Cindy
05-25-2008, 08:32 PM
Oh I remember those days, and now my little grandson is gone to his mom's for the summer, and I am missing him so much.
My youngest graduated Kindergarten the same day one of my older son's graduated from High School. So we made her a cap and gown and had a graduation party for both of them. She thought she was IT!

Will be praying for y'all, and hope LordChocolate gets well soon.

HeavenlyOne
05-25-2008, 08:33 PM
With EC down, I've been missing you and MissK too!

Cindy
05-25-2008, 08:35 PM
I have been missing MissBrat too.

LadyChocolate
05-25-2008, 08:37 PM
With EC down, I've been missing you and MissK too!

Thank you!!!!!!:gaga you are too kind to miss me! LOL

MissBrattified
05-25-2008, 09:21 PM
Gang, I have a problem I am hoping you homeschooling parents can help me with. My middle daughter is having some serious issues with math. Basically, she is flunking math in a big way. I've thought about pulling her out of school to homeschool her, but that isn't feasible for us, either financially or timewise. However, I thought I could take advantage of the summer break and give her some additional instruction here at home. What do y'all suggest? Math has been an issue for her since day one. Do I go back to the beginning, and get 1st grade materials and work up from there? She is going to the 4th grade next school year. Also, what math program would be a good one to work at home like this? Thanks.

I would test her through something like Abeka or Alpha Omega (Even School of Tomorrow has good basic math courses.) They will then tell you where she needs to start, including where to fill in the "gaps." You could do it on the weekends, or in the evenings just like if she was being tutored. Summertime is a great time for it.

I'm not a fan of ACE/School of Tomorrow, however their elementary math is pretty good, easy to follow and easy to teach with. (My disclaimer--I do NOT recommend this curriculum for any other subject except Pre-K/Kindergarten, and I would really discourage it for upper grades.)

The reason ACE/SOT is good for this, is just the simplicity--they are PACEs (workbooks), and each PACE contains a couple of new concepts, plus a review of older math concepts. You test her on just those concepts, and when your daughter passes she moves to the next PACE number. The way ACE/SOT works, they will tell you what numbers to start with, and they will tell you what "gap" PACEs to go back and pick up on the missed concepts.

www.schooloftomorrow.com (https://aceweb.schooloftomorrow.com/store/dept.asp?dept_id=54000&elite_category=V&elite_subject=114)

You can visit the above link to order Math or Intermediate Math testing. They aren't very expensive. I think the basic math is 1st grade - 6th, and the other should be 5th - 10th or something like that. (I can't remember exactly which numbers correspond to which grade.) Regardless, I would go with the Math Diagnostic Test and Test Key. After that, I think you can just call up ACE and they will tell you what you need.

You might check into Saxon Math; I've heard they're really good, but I'm not sure how their testing works.

MissBrattified
05-25-2008, 09:22 PM
I have been missing MissBrat too.

Speaking of the devil....:)

I'm on VACATION!!!! And I have a sunburn to prove it. :(

LadyChocolate
05-25-2008, 09:28 PM
I would test her through something like Abeka or Alpha Omega (Even School of Tomorrow has good basic math courses.) They will then tell you where she needs to start, including where to fill in the "gaps." You could do it on the weekends, or in the evenings just like if she was being tutored. Summertime is a great time for it.

I'm not a fan of ACE/School of Tomorrow, however their elementary math is pretty good, easy to follow and easy to teach with. (However, just as a disclaimer--I do NOT recommend this curriculum for any other subject except Pre-K/Kindergarten, and I would really discourage it for upper grades.)

The reason ACE/SOT is good for this, is just the simplicity--they are PACEs (workbooks), and each PACE contains a couple of new concepts, plus a review of older math concepts. You test on just those concepts, and when you pass you move to the next PACE number. The way ACE/SOT works, they will tell you what numbers to start, and they will tell you what "gap" PACEs to go back and pick up on the missed concepts.

You might check into Saxon Math; I've heard they're really good, but I'm not sure how their testing works.

I am not a fan of ACE either. I like AOP better. My boys got tired of the ACE math because it is soooooooooo redundant. They give way too many problems of the same thing. Now don't get me wrong, I know you learn by repitition, but they take it a little too far... AOP breaks it up and it's not so redundant. My sister in law just told me that her son was doing ACE math and was hating it because he had several pages of the same type of problems. I would go with a different curriculum! JMHO

Rico
05-25-2008, 09:43 PM
Ok, gang. Everyone keeps telling me to get her tested first, but how do I go about doing that? I am really in the dark with this sort of thing.

Rico
05-25-2008, 10:03 PM
This is getting frustrating. I went to school of tomorrow and they offer diagnostic tests but they don't say what grade level it tests or anything.

nahkoe
05-25-2008, 10:11 PM
Ok, gang. Everyone keeps telling me to get her tested first, but how do I go about doing that? I am really in the dark with this sort of thing.

I'd not worry about testing... I think I'm the lonely dissenting voice here too. lol

Talk to her teacher if you need ideas of where to start. I'd hope her teacher would be willing to tell you where she's struggling and what she definitely should know before 4th grade. (the only thing, btw, that my kids are having pushed on them for 4th is multiplication tables).

I'm going to repeat, curriculum is already failing her. You are most likely going to need to take a different approach in order to catch her up and give her some confidence so she can apply what she knows to the curriculum next year.

I can tell you're really unsure of yourself, see if her teacher can give you any direction. I think the hands on might help you more than anything else. They may also have resources you can use at home over the summer that will be in line with what the school used in 3rd and will use in 4th.

Rico
05-25-2008, 10:14 PM
I'd not worry about testing... I think I'm the lonely dissenting voice here too. lol

Talk to her teacher if you need ideas of where to start. I'd hope her teacher would be willing to tell you where she's struggling and what she definitely should know before 4th grade. (the only thing, btw, that my kids are having pushed on them for 4th is multiplication tables).

I'm going to repeat, curriculum is already failing her. You are most likely going to need to take a different approach in order to catch her up and give her some confidence so she can apply what she knows to the curriculum next year.

I can tell you're really unsure of yourself, see if her teacher can give you any direction. I think the hands on might help you more than anything else. They may also have resources you can use at home over the summer that will be in line with what the school used in 3rd and will use in 4th.

Well, they are already out of school for the summer. Friday was their last day. I don't know that her teacher will be there next week, but I will call and give it a shot.

nahkoe
05-25-2008, 10:29 PM
Well, they are already out of school for the summer. Friday was their last day. I don't know that her teacher will be there next week, but I will call and give it a shot.

It's definitely worth a call. I hope you can talk to someone. :)

MissBrattified
05-26-2008, 12:25 PM
This is getting frustrating. I went to school of tomorrow and they offer diagnostic tests but they don't say what grade level it tests or anything.

The Math (as opposed to Intermediate Math) tests for 1st grade - 5th levels. (It doesn't matter if she gets to the 4th/5th grade parts and can't answer. They'll just start her where she stops performing.

Rico, just get the phone number from the site and call them. It's a really quick and easy process. :)

MissBrattified
05-26-2008, 12:28 PM
Ok, gang. Everyone keeps telling me to get her tested first, but how do I go about doing that? I am really in the dark with this sort of thing.

Rico, you don't have to get her tested.

You can also just go to bjupress.com and order 2nd and 3rd grade math books (teacher books and student editions) and go over those with her during the summer. I'm using curriculum from BJUpress for Hannah this coming year, and I really like it. The downside is, it's a lot more expensive. School of Tomorrow is easy, inexpensive, and their basic math is pretty effective and very easy for a child to understand. It's also a lot different format from your basic textbook style curriculum, so she might find that a lot more interesting.

MissBrattified
05-26-2008, 12:32 PM
Hey, Rico, scratch the ordering tests thing...they have a free online diagnostic test. You have to register first, and I haven't used them myself, but its worth checking out.

http://www.schooloftomorrow.com/Default.aspx#

Scroll about halfway down, under "Student Placement", and click on "Free Online Diagnostic Test."

Make sure your browser allows pop-ups for the website before you try it.

--Okay, I registered myself...it doesn't work very well in Firefox, but IE works fine. I had to register, close the box, then log in before it would allow me to choose a subject and grade level. I would start the test at 1st grade and let her go as far as she can. (That way she has a lot of right answers under her belt before she starts having difficulty with anything--it's a self-esteem thing. ;) )

If nothing else, Rico, you can observe the test, and jot down notes about which areas she seems to struggle with most, and then just help her with those areas. I would not help her with the test whatsoever. Anything she doesn't know the answer to or needs help discovering the answer to is material she needs to cover or review. Let her do it on her own, and be a silent (but interested) observer.

I recommend www.funbrain.com. There are math games kids can play according to their grade level. Some of the "arcade" games require quick estimating and basic conceptual skills. My girls never suspected a thing. LOL!

-----> Link to the Math Arcade at FunBrain (http://www.funbrain.com/brain/MathBrain/MathBrain.html)

Tina
05-26-2008, 04:44 PM
Rico, if you are interested you can look over on GNC in the homeschooling thread. Several of us shared links over there. There was stuff for just about every subject.

Rico
05-26-2008, 05:02 PM
Rico, if you are interested you can look over on GNC in the homeschooling thread. Several of us shared links over there. There was stuff for just about every subject.

Thanks. I am going to give these AOP folks a call tomorrow. I will explain the situation and see what they recommend. I let my daughter know today that I am going to get her a course on Math to do over the summer. If she still isn't performing up to par, I am going to seriously look at pulling her out of public school to homeschool her. The thought alone scares me.

Margies3
05-26-2008, 05:03 PM
Rico,

I don't have anything to contribute to your thread, but I just wanted to say thank you for posting it. The information on here will be helpful to several others as well.

Thanks, brother!

Rico
05-26-2008, 05:05 PM
Rico, you don't have to get her tested.

You can also just go to bjupress.com and order 2nd and 3rd grade math books (teacher books and student editions) and go over those with her during the summer. I'm using curriculum from BJUpress for Hannah this coming year, and I really like it. The downside is, it's a lot more expensive. School of Tomorrow is easy, inexpensive, and their basic math is pretty effective and very easy for a child to understand. It's also a lot different format from your basic textbook style curriculum, so she might find that a lot more interesting.

The problem I have with ACE is that this is the program they were using at this church school my son attended. He was supposedly an "A" type of student on the ACE program, but it turned out he was far behind other students in his grade level when we made the switch to public schools. It left me with a bad taste for ACE and church schools.

Rico
05-26-2008, 05:07 PM
Hey, Rico, scratch the ordering tests thing...they have a free online diagnostic test. You have to register first, and I haven't used them myself, but its worth checking out.

http://www.schooloftomorrow.com/Default.aspx#

Scroll about halfway down, under "Student Placement", and click on "Free Online Diagnostic Test."

Make sure your browser allows pop-ups for the website before you try it.

--Okay, I registered myself...it doesn't work very well in Firefox, but IE works fine. I had to register, close the box, then log in before it would allow me to choose a subject and grade level. I would start the test at 1st grade and let her go as far as she can. (That way she has a lot of right answers under her belt before she starts having difficulty with anything--it's a self-esteem thing. ;) )

If nothing else, Rico, you can observe the test, and jot down notes about which areas she seems to struggle with most, and then just help her with those areas. I would not help her with the test whatsoever. Anything she doesn't know the answer to or needs help discovering the answer to is material she needs to cover or review. Let her do it on her own, and be a silent (but interested) observer.

I recommend www.funbrain.com. There are math games kids can play according to their grade level. Some of the "arcade" games require quick estimating and basic conceptual skills. My girls never suspected a thing. LOL!

-----> Link to the Math Arcade at FunBrain (http://www.funbrain.com/brain/MathBrain/MathBrain.html)

Funbrain is one of the "play" things I am going to encourage her to do. I checked it out and they make a game out of what they do. You are right. She will never know what's really going on! lol

Rico
05-26-2008, 05:09 PM
Rico,

I don't have anything to contribute to your thread, but I just wanted to say thank you for posting it. The information on here will be helpful to several others as well.

Thanks, brother!

YW, Sister. The funny thing is that I am against homeschooling children just for the sake of homeschooling them. I think a person can really mess their kids up that way. But, I do believe, in certain circumstances, homeschooling may be the route to go. Never thought I might be facing one of those circumstances though. :reaction

Pressing-On
05-26-2008, 06:43 PM
Funbrain is one of the "play" things I am going to encourage her to do. I checked it out and they make a game out of what they do. You are right. She will never know what's really going on! lol
Hello!!! :killinme I think you are actually ignoring me. :D

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=471136&postcount=4

Rico,
The only thing you need to know as a parent or teacher is - Does the child understand all math concepts at her grade level?

Math is a science which never changes. The fundamentals of math DO NOT EVER change.

You need to know if she knows the fundamentals of math since she is still in the elementary level. You are catching this early.

Peggy Kaye's books have all fundamental concepts in game form. Easy, enjoyable and FREE through the Library system.

You then would need to satisfy the both of you by knowing if she can do the seatwork required after understanding the fundamentals. Hence the Steck-Vaughn book I referenced.

That's it. It is not hard.

As much as you hate homeschooling, Abraham Lincoln became a lawyer and eventually the President of the United States of America by sitting in front of his fireplace reading. It is that simple. :D

She could possibly be hung up on Division not realizing it is the same as Subtraction is to Addition. Fractions won't be learned unless she plays with them - cutting out diagrams or measuring with cups and spoons.

Get a game - get a workbook with short lessons.

That's all you have to do. It is that simple.

If you go with all these other companies you are going to get bogged down, especially since you are not going to homeschool.

Play a game - work the math - test the concept.

It is that easy, Rico.

You can do all of this for less than $40 which would probably including the shipping.

The funny thing is that I am against homeschooling children just for the sake of homeschooling them. I think a person can really mess their kids up that way.
Bad pastors can mess up a church.
Bad mechanics can mess up your car.
Bad presidents can have "relations" in the White House.
Bad parents can mess up children.
Bad husbands can mess up a marriage.
Bad wives can mess up a marriage.


Just something to think about. :D

MissBrattified
05-26-2008, 07:25 PM
The problem I have with ACE is that this is the program they were using at this church school my son attended. He was supposedly an "A" type of student on the ACE program, but it turned out he was far behind other students in his grade level when we made the switch to public schools. It left me with a bad taste for ACE and church schools.

Well, like I said, I don't recommend it generally, for that reason. However, I still think it might work well for your purposes.

You can also go to the library and check out one of those "What does my child need to know" books (for third grade) and simply spend time reinforcing each math concept with your daughter. In our library they're in a special parenting section.

4th grade is when she'll start multiplication & division and some fractions, among other things.

nahkoe
05-26-2008, 07:56 PM
Well, like I said, I don't recommend it generally, for that reason. However, I still think it might work well for your purposes.

You can also go to the library and check out one of those "What does my child need to know" books (for third grade) and simply spend time reinforcing each math concept with your daughter. In our library they're in a special parenting section.

4th grade is when she'll start multiplication & division and some fractions, among other things.

Really? Mine did all of that in 3rd. They really push having the multiplication tables to 10 memorized by the end of 3rd grade. I'm a little worried about moving, I hope I don't have kids who end up bored cuz they already know it, or completely lost cuz the new school is ahead of where they left off. I know things can really vary btwn schools.

Rico
05-26-2008, 08:07 PM
Hello!!! :killinme I think you are actually ignoring me. :D

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=471136&postcount=4

Rico,
The only thing you need to know as a parent or teacher is - Does the child understand all math concepts at her grade level?

Math is a science which never changes. The fundamentals of math DO NOT EVER change.

You need to know if she knows the fundamentals of math since she is still in the elementary level. You are catching this early.

Peggy Kaye's books have all fundamental concepts in game form. Easy, enjoyable and FREE through the Library system.

You then would need to satisfy the both of you by knowing if she can do the seatwork required after understanding the fundamentals. Hence the Steck-Vaughn book I referenced.

That's it. It is not hard.

As much as you hate homeschooling, Abraham Lincoln became a lawyer and eventually the President of the United States of America by sitting in front of his fireplace reading. It is that simple. :D

She could possibly be hung up on Division not realizing it is the same as Subtraction is to Addition. Fractions won't be learned unless she plays with them - cutting out diagrams or measuring with cups and spoons.

Get a game - get a workbook with short lessons.

That's all you have to do. It is that simple.

If you go with all these other companies you are going to get bogged down, especially since you are not going to homeschool.

Play a game - work the math - test the concept.

It is that easy, Rico.

You can do all of this for less than $40 which would probably including the shipping.


Bad pastors can mess up a church.
Bad mechanics can mess up your car.
Bad presidents can have "relations" in the White House.
Bad parents can mess up children.
Bad husbands can mess up a marriage.
Bad wives can mess up a marriage.


Just something to think about. :D

I'm not ignoring you or your advice. Matterwitchu? :D I checked into the Peggy Kaye book. In fact, I think I posted about it being very reasonably priced. It's on my list of stuff to include.

Rico
05-26-2008, 08:08 PM
Well, like I said, I don't recommend it generally, for that reason. However, I still think it might work well for your purposes.

You can also go to the library and check out one of those "What does my child need to know" books (for third grade) and simply spend time reinforcing each math concept with your daughter. In our library they're in a special parenting section.

4th grade is when she'll start multiplication & division and some fractions, among other things.

Actually, they have already started multiplication and division. Around here they do it in the 3rd grade.

MissBrattified
05-26-2008, 08:20 PM
Really? Mine did all of that in 3rd. They really push having the multiplication tables to 10 memorized by the end of 3rd grade. I'm a little worried about moving, I hope I don't have kids who end up bored cuz they already know it, or completely lost cuz the new school is ahead of where they left off. I know things can really vary btwn schools.

Well, I can only speak for Oklahoma schools. :)

Both of my girls did multiplication tables and division in 4th grade.

They both used Harcourt Math.

Here's the book link--if your library doesn't have it on hand, they'll probably order it for you. (Ours does that.)

What Your Third Grader Needs To Know (http://www.amazon.com/What-Third-Grader-Needs-Revised/dp/0385336268)

Pressing-On
05-26-2008, 08:22 PM
I'm not ignoring you or your advice. Matterwitchu? :D I checked into the Peggy Kaye book. In fact, I think I posted about it being very reasonably priced. It's on my list of stuff to include.

LOL!

I'm glad you are going to get the Peggy Kaye book.

Here is another set of reinforcing workbooks that are inexpensive and fun to work. Each concept is covered separately. You can use these if you don't want to do the Steck-Vaugh.

I've used these and I really like them. The site let's you take a look inside the workbooks.

http://www.keypress.com/x6469.xml

Why I am against testing with a company you are not going to use is that I have seen parents remain confused as it still doesn't line up with their public school. I only see the advantage if you are placing them in that particular homeschool curriculum. JMO.

Game - seatwork - test. Nothing could be more simple.

Let us know what you do and how it turns out. I have a busy week ahead - praying for you!

Rico
05-26-2008, 08:27 PM
praying for you!

Thank you. I feel like I am headed for an uphill climb. Actually, I think what I am going to do is utilize a variety of free diagnostic tests I have found on the web so far (thanks to all you homeschooling mommies :D:D:D). We'll probly spend the better part of a day taking tests, but I want to get a good idea of where she is and where she should be.

MissBrattified
05-26-2008, 08:27 PM
Why I am against testing with a company you are not going to use is that I have seen parents remain confused as it still doesn't line up with their public school. I only see the advantage if you are placing them in that particular homeschool curriculum. JMO.

This is a good point, mainly because many curriculums are ultra basic through elementary school and then add on the challenging math in jr. high/high school as totally new concepts--others integrate basic algebra, geometry concepts, etc. from the first grade.

Most curriculums line out in the end, meaning if you use it 1st - 12th, the child will still know what he/she needs to know by the time they graduate. But if you compare to public school curriculum, they can be ahead or behind at any given point. (Behind and ahead being relative concepts.)

Pressing-On
05-26-2008, 08:37 PM
Thank you. I feel like I am headed for an uphill climb. Actually, I think what I am going to do is utilize a variety of free diagnostic tests I have found on the web so far (thanks to all you homeschooling mommies :D:D:D). We'll probly spend the better part of a day taking tests, but I want to get a good idea of where she is and where she should be.

You are welcome!

Not an uphill climb at all. You just need to realize that your tax dollars were wasted as you see that each student is an individual case and they did not have time for your daughter. :D

Okay, I'm stopping. :killinme

Pressing-On
05-26-2008, 08:41 PM
This is a good point, mainly because many curriculums are ultra basic through elementary school and then add on the challenging math in jr. high/high school as totally new concepts--others integrate basic algebra, geometry concepts, etc. from the first grade.

Most curriculums line out in the end, meaning if you use it 1st - 12th, the child will still know what he/she needs to know by the time they graduate. But if you compare to public school curriculum, they can be ahead or behind at any given point. (Behind and ahead being relative concepts.)

You are right - in the end they do cover everything. It's hard to change in midstream from one to another. I never used just one company. I found what was required by my State and found what I felt would work for us.

www.vegsource.com/homeschool, which you already know about, is an awesome swap tool and allows you to see what the experienced homeschoolers are using in the country. I love and utilized that site for 15 years. Now, I am finished! But I like to help others, if I can.

Rico
05-26-2008, 08:41 PM
You are welcome!

Not an uphill climb at all. You just need to realize that your tax dollars were wasted as you see that each student is an individual case and they did not have time for your daughter. :D

Okay, I'm stopping. :killinme

Uhhhhh NO, we aren't going to start the blame game Miss Missy! Don't make me have to set you straight in front of God and everyone on this here forum!!! :boxing



























:D

Pressing-On
05-26-2008, 08:43 PM
Uhhhhh NO, we aren't going to start the blame game Miss Missy! Don't make me have to set you straight in front of God and everyone on this here forum!!! :boxing



























:D

I'm not afraid of you. :killinme And I will do the blame game. My mother was homeschooling in the 70's when it was not cool. I know the whole deal and our public school system is in a mess.

Let me add that if Xerox and other major corporations are saying they are not finding applicants that are intelligent enough to take over these companies - that is serious. Who cares who graduated from college. An A now is equivalent to what a C was 30 years ago. Sad.

Rico
05-26-2008, 08:50 PM
I'm not afraid of you. :killinme And I will do the blame game. My mother was homeschooling in the 70's when it was not cool. I know the whole deal and our public school system is in a mess.

Maybe where you are from, but not around here. You just have to know my daughter to understand why she is where she is with her education. In fact, someone I know that homeschools wasn't surprised at all when I talked with her about this situation a couple of days ago. She knows my daughter fairly well. This isn't the school's fault or anyone else's fault for that matter. This girl is just different. She thinks differently than most of the people I know.

Pressing-On
05-26-2008, 08:54 PM
Maybe where you are from, but not around here. You just have to know my daughter to understand why she is where she is with her education. In fact, someone I know that homeschools wasn't surprised at all when I talked with her about this situation a couple of days ago. She knows my daughter fairly well. This isn't the school's fault or anyone else's fault for that matter. This girl is just different. She thinks differently than most of the people I know.

Okay, I give you the last word. :D

Never mind.... :D

Every child is teachable at different levels and in different ways. As quoted by a public school teacher of 35 years, "There are too many rats in the cages."

If your daughter wasn't getting something someone should have recognized that that - stopped what they were doing and addressed it. That's what we do in homeschooling. We don't move on until we have mastered a particular concept. They are not able to do that in the public school system. They don't have time or enough help.

MissBrattified
05-26-2008, 08:55 PM
Okay, I give you the last word. :D

Never mind.... :D

Every child is teachable at different levels and in different ways. As quoted by a public school teacher of 35 years, "There are too many rats in the cages."

If your daughter wasn't getting something someone should have recognized that that - stopped what they were doing and addressed it. That's what we do in homeschooling. We don't move on until we have mastered a particular concept. They are not able to do that in the public school system. They don't have time or enough help.

PREACH IT! :D

Pressing-On
05-26-2008, 08:56 PM
PREACH IT! :D

Do I get the tithes from that? :happydance

Grasshopper
05-26-2008, 09:04 PM
Gang, I have a problem I am hoping you homeschooling parents can help me with. My middle daughter is having some serious issues with math. Basically, she is flunking math in a big way. I've thought about pulling her out of school to homeschool her, but that isn't feasible for us, either financially or timewise. However, I thought I could take advantage of the summer break and give her some additional instruction here at home. What do y'all suggest? Math has been an issue for her since day one. Do I go back to the beginning, and get 1st grade materials and work up from there? She is going to the 4th grade next school year. Also, what math program would be a good one to work at home like this? Thanks.

My wife and I don't home school but we've tutored. We typically get our materials from F&S School supply, which is local. You might want to see if there are any other school supply stores near you. Here's F&S's site just so you can see what it's like:

http://www.fsschoolsupply.com/

These shops have school supplies for professional teachers and home schoolers. They have curriculum and games galore on nearly any general education subject you can imagine. You may want to look in your local phone book under "school supply" and/or "supplies". Or call F&S long distance from where you are and ask them for a lead in your area or who you might want to contact. You could also start with your child's school by asking a teacher where they get their school supplies and if they would recommend anything.

God bless.

Rico
05-26-2008, 09:04 PM
Okay, I give you the last word. :D

Never mind.... :D

Every child is teachable at different levels and in different ways. As quoted by a public school teacher of 35 years, "There are too many rats in the cages."

If your daughter wasn't getting something someone should have recognized that that - stopped what they were doing and addressed it. That's what we do in homeschooling. We don't move on until we have mastered a particular concept. They are not able to do that in the public school system. They don't have time or enough help.

It did get addressed last year, by her 2nd grade teacher. She pretty much warned us we'd find ourselves in the position we are in. I tried explaining to her that she needed to find what worked for my daughter. We worked with her, with the help of her teacher. She was running a "C" average until this last semester in the 3rd grade. I'm not going to take any chances with her getting left behind so here we are. Again, this isn't anyone's fault, PO. I know it's hard for you to accept that because you are so dead set against public schools

Rico
05-26-2008, 09:06 PM
If this thread turns into a bash the public school system thread I'm not going to post on it anymore. I'm not going to get into that argument.

Grasshopper
05-26-2008, 09:08 PM
I know this might sound crazy...but sometimes a child's diet can have a big time effect on how well they focus and on their ability regarding retention of information. I've known a few cases where tweaking a child's diet revolutionized their educational experience.

Grasshopper
05-26-2008, 09:13 PM
If this thread turns into a bash the public school system thread I'm not going to post on it anymore. I'm not going to get into that argument.

Not every public school system is bad Rico. Not every school in a bad system is bad. People are ignorant. It's POPULAR to be a government loathing public school bashing right-wing nut in Christian circles today. Let the dogs bark...you do what you have to do in the best way you know how and things will be alright.

I graduated from the public school system in Dayton Ohio (a pretty bad system really) and I can run circles around most of my brethren who were home schooled.

Kae
05-26-2008, 09:31 PM
If this thread turns into a bash the public school system thread I'm not going to post on it anymore. I'm not going to get into that argument.

I grew up thinking homeschool was a very poor way to get an education, until I met my roommate in college who was very smart and homeschooled. Living in CA during college I decided homeschooling was the only way, because of what was going on in the public schools.

After many years later I joined a homeschool support group and watching certain parents struggle with the homeschooling. I began to realize it isn't for everyone. In some cases it is better to put your children in the public school system if the parents can't keep up.

Homeschooling isn't for everyone, nor is it wrong to do. It is a lifestyle that we should respect no matter what one chooses to do.

nahkoe
05-26-2008, 09:33 PM
If this thread turns into a bash the public school system thread I'm not going to post on it anymore. I'm not going to get into that argument.

I admit I was getting a little uncomfortable with that direction too. And, it's not cuz I'm not on board with homeschooling. :) Every child is unique, every family is unique, every school system is unique, every teacher is unique, no one else can say what's best for a family. You're obviously interested in what's best for your daughter, you're going out of your way to work with her and keep her performing to the best of her ability. That's what matters.

I also suspect you have a gut wrenching fear of math yourself. lol I've been trying to figure out how to reply to your posts, I just keep thinking you're in so far over your head you're not sure if you should try going up or down to get to air.

You're gonna be ok, math isn't that scary. :) She's an artist, she's already using the concepts. You can't be good at art and not understand math. It can definitely take some time to figure out how to apply what you know but don't realize you know to paper/pencil math problems though. And even if she doesn't do more than barely pass now, there's still hope for her. :) I was the barely passing, struggling, hates math so much I quit highschool over it student. Now I'm a college math tutor.

You're doing her a great service taking the time this summer to help her out. :)

Pressing-On
05-26-2008, 09:33 PM
If this thread turns into a bash the public school system thread I'm not going to post on it anymore. I'm not going to get into that argument.

I respect your wishes. We all have our strong opinions. Let's not bash home schoolers either. :D

Kae
05-26-2008, 09:39 PM
I know this might sound crazy...but sometimes a child's diet can have a big time effect on how well they focus and on their ability regarding retention of information. I've known a few cases where tweaking a child's diet revolutionized their educational experience.

This doesn't sound crazy at all. Here is a good example:

http://www.wanttoknow.info/050520schooldietchange

Almost all processed foods have sugar in them, another interesting article.

http://macrobiotics.co.uk/sugar.htm

...Dr. David Reuben, author of Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Nutrition says, “…white refined sugar-is not a food. It is a pure chemical extracted from plant sources, purer in fact than cocaine, which it resembles in many ways.

Rico
05-26-2008, 09:55 PM
I admit I was getting a little uncomfortable with that direction too. And, it's not cuz I'm not on board with homeschooling. :) Every child is unique, every family is unique, every school system is unique, every teacher is unique, no one else can say what's best for a family. You're obviously interested in what's best for your daughter, you're going out of your way to work with her and keep her performing to the best of her ability. That's what matters.

I also suspect you have a gut wrenching fear of math yourself. lol I've been trying to figure out how to reply to your posts, I just keep thinking you're in so far over your head you're not sure if you should try going up or down to get to air.

You're gonna be ok, math isn't that scary. :) She's an artist, she's already using the concepts. You can't be good at art and not understand math. It can definitely take some time to figure out how to apply what you know but don't realize you know to paper/pencil math problems though. And even if she doesn't do more than barely pass now, there's still hope for her. :) I was the barely passing, struggling, hates math so much I quit highschool over it student. Now I'm a college math tutor.

You're doing her a great service taking the time this summer to help her out. :)

I am not the least bit afraid of math. In fact, I am the one who handles the household finances. I manage to support 6 of us, including three vehicles, for around $1800 a month take home pay. We haven't had our lights, water, gas, or phone shut off in so many years I can't remember the last time it happened. We eat meat almost every supper, and we aren't on food stamps anymore either. Plus, we actually have a small amount of money in a savings acct. I know how to handle my math. That isn't the problem.

The problem is that I don't know if I am going to have the patience to be able to deal with this situation if it turns into full blown homeschooling for her. I take my children's education seriously and should have followed my gut instinct last year and done what I am doing now. In the back of my mind I have always had the thought that she, out of all my children, would be the one most likely to end up getting homeschooled. Now things seem like they are headed in that direction, and I am not so sure I am up to the task.

Rico
05-26-2008, 09:56 PM
Let's not bash home schoolers either. :D

Haven't seen that happening at all. :)

Rico
05-26-2008, 09:57 PM
This doesn't sound crazy at all. Here is a good example:

http://www.wanttoknow.info/050520schooldietchange

Almost all processed foods have sugar in them, another interesting article.

http://macrobiotics.co.uk/sugar.htm

...Dr. David Reuben, author of Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Nutrition says, “…white refined sugar-is not a food. It is a pure chemical extracted from plant sources, purer in fact than cocaine, which it resembles in many ways.

No wonder I like Kool-aid so much!! :bliss

Kae
05-26-2008, 10:21 PM
I am not the least bit afraid of math. In fact, I am the one who handles the household finances. I manage to support 6 of us, including three vehicles, for around $1800 a month take home pay. We haven't had our lights, water, gas, or phone shut off in so many years I can't remember the last time it happened. We eat meat almost every supper, and we aren't on food stamps anymore either. Plus, we actually have a small amount of money in a savings acct. I know how to handle my math. That isn't the problem.

The problem is that I don't know if I am going to have the patience to be able to deal with this situation if it turns into full blown homeschooling for her. I take my children's education seriously and should have followed my gut instinct last year and done what I am doing now. In the back of my mind I have always had the thought that she, out of all my children, would be the one most likely to end up getting homeschooled. Now things seem like they are headed in that direction, and I am not so sure I am up to the task.

This is why I recommended the Robinson curriculum. It is the easiest on the parent. Some like to say that it is like the ACE, but it is totally different. I have never been a fan of the ACE.

nahkoe
05-26-2008, 10:23 PM
I am not the least bit afraid of math. In fact, I am the one who handles the household finances. I manage to support 6 of us, including three vehicles, for around $1800 a month take home pay. We haven't had our lights, water, gas, or phone shut off in so many years I can't remember the last time it happened. We eat meat almost every supper, and we aren't on food stamps anymore either. Plus, we actually have a small amount of money in a savings acct. I know how to handle my math. That isn't the problem.

I do, and did my entire marriage as well, all of this. :) I was still terrified of anything beyond finances. If you're not that's great!

The problem is that I don't know if I am going to have the patience to be able to deal with this situation if it turns into full blown homeschooling for her. I take my children's education seriously and should have followed my gut instinct last year and done what I am doing now. In the back of my mind I have always had the thought that she, out of all my children, would be the one most likely to end up getting homeschooled. Now things seem like they are headed in that direction, and I am not so sure I am up to the task.

This may be where I was getting the idea you're feeling like you're in over your head. Again, I'll say that you're doing what's best for her, regardless of how comfortable that is, and as long as you keep that focus and make adjustments as necessary, you're going to be ok.

Homeschooling *is* difficult. And being 100% responsible for your child's education can weigh on you. But it's also wonderful and amazing. Y'all will be ok either way. And maybe a year at home will get her on track to go back. I know several students who didn't even stay home a full year, just a few months was enough for them to pick up the pieces they'd missed and go back into the classroom. But, I know others who just stayed home indefinitely too, and thrived. You'll make the best choice for her, that I'm confident of.

Pressing-On
05-27-2008, 05:44 AM
It did get addressed last year, by her 2nd grade teacher. She pretty much warned us we'd find ourselves in the position we are in. I tried explaining to her that she needed to find what worked for my daughter. We worked with her, with the help of her teacher. She was running a "C" average until this last semester in the 3rd grade. I'm not going to take any chances with her getting left behind so here we are. Again, this isn't anyone's fault, PO. I know it's hard for you to accept that because you are so dead set against public schools

Just wanted to address this before I get bogged down in work this week.

I am not totally dead set against the public schools. I've seen and experienced bad on both sides. There is good and bad in every sector of society.

I'm open to whatever works for the family. If a family has no organizational skills they would serve themselves better by NOT homeschooling. :thumbsup

God bless!

Rico
05-27-2008, 02:05 PM
Well, she took a diagnostic test (kinda long, if you ask me, but it tested 8 different areas). Here are the results:

Fractions and Decimals- 30%
Graphs and Probabilities-40%
Multiples-40%
Shapes and Symmetry-40%
Place Value-80%
Whole Numbers and Fractions-60%
Number Patterns-60%
Whole Numbers-70%


Not very good. One thing I did notice is that she squints when she reads, so it's off to the eye doctor. This company's program runs $64 for the math CD and is through SOS. She has another assessment to take on Language, but I told her to take a break for now . I need to digest all of this.



HELP!!

Ok. Got that out. Uh boy!

nahkoe
05-27-2008, 02:39 PM
Well, she took a diagnostic test (kinda long, if you ask me, but it tested 8 different areas). Here are the results:

Fractions and Decimals- 30%
Graphs and Probabilities-40%
Multiples-40%
Shapes and Symmetry-40%
Place Value-80%
Whole Numbers and Fractions-60%
Number Patterns-60%
Whole Numbers-70%


Not very good. One thing I did notice is that she squints when she reads, so it's off to the eye doctor. This company's program runs $64 for the math CD and is through SOS. She has another assessment to take on Language, but I told her to take a break for now . I need to digest all of this.



HELP!!

Ok. Got that out. Uh boy!

I dunno what the curric they're using is like, but that looks like she's at least learning concepts in order, if a little behind. That's a good thing. :)

Rico
05-27-2008, 02:45 PM
I dunno what the curric they're using is like, but that looks like she's at least learning concepts in order, if a little behind. That's a good thing. :)

This was a test of stuff she should already know. Passing score is 70% in any given area. They mixed the areas up in each test. She is more than just a little behind. She is failing in 5 areas.

nahkoe
05-27-2008, 02:54 PM
This was a test of stuff she should already know. Passing score is 70% in any given area. They mixed the areas up in each test. She is more than just a little behind. She is failing in 5 areas.

Ok, ok, so I used "little"...loosely. I'm a hopeless optimist sometimes.

Pressing-On
05-27-2008, 02:58 PM
This was a test of stuff she should already know. Passing score is 70% in any given area. They mixed the areas up in each test. She is more than just a little behind. She is failing in 5 areas.

Her scores look pretty normal for someone a little behind. You just need to tweak those areas. Anyway, I'm not helping you any more because you are not listening!!!! :pullhair:pullhair:pullhair:pullhair

If you purchase that $64 CD I'm going to kick you in the FANNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are not going to like SOS!!!!

:bliss:bliss:bliss

I'm out. You're on your own!

:toofunny:toofunny

MissBrattified
05-27-2008, 03:06 PM
This was a test of stuff she should already know. Passing score is 70% in any given area. They mixed the areas up in each test. She is more than just a little behind. She is failing in 5 areas.

You need to rephrase. She needs assistance in 5 areas. :)

Use the info you have. Go find some workbooks or flashcards or hands-on Math kits and just start with the basic concepts and work your way up. It's not really that complicated. :D And don't move on to a new subject until she's mastered the one you're working on!

If you will find a store in your area that sells homeschool curriculum and supplies, you should go visit--you will get TONS of ideas if nothing else.

Around here we have a Christian Bookstore called Mardel's that sells everything from Bob Jones University Textbooks to Switched on Schoolhouse to Abeka, to the miscellaneous "build-your-own-curriculum" books. They have several aisles of nothing but science kits, craft kits, flash cards, math kits, models, etc. THAT'S where you need to be looking.

Get out your phone book, make some phone calls, and then get in your car and go visit a store. Or PM me where you live, and I'll personally locate a store for you to visit. :gaga

Rico
05-27-2008, 03:07 PM
Her scores look pretty normal for someone a little behind. You just need to tweak those areas. Anyway, I'm not helping you any more because you are not listening!!!! :pullhair:pullhair:pullhair:pullhair

If you purchase that $64 CD I'm going to kick you in the FANNY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! You are not going to like SOS!!!!

:bliss:bliss:bliss

I'm out. You're on your own!

:toofunny:toofunny

Sister, I appreciate your advice, but this is my decision to make, not yours. To be honest, I am weighing everything everyone is suggesting, including you. I've already told you I am going to do the games things, haven't I? :drama

The goal is for her to be able to go back to public school come August. I am hoping to get her caught up first, before I make any decisions on homeschooling her for the whole of next year. I haven't made any final decisions on what program I am going to use yet. I hope to have that decision made in the next 3 or 4 days.

In the meantime, I will keep you all posted on what's going on, what programs I am looking into, etc., etc. I appreciate everyone's help. :)

Rico
05-27-2008, 03:10 PM
You need to rephrase. She needs assistance in 5 areas. :)

Use the info you have. Go find some workbooks or flashcards or hands-on Math kits and just start with the basic concepts and work your way up. It's not really that complicated. :D And don't move on to a new subject until she's mastered the one you're working on!

If you will find a store in your area that sells homeschool curriculum and supplies, you should go visit--you will get TONS of ideas if nothing else.

Around here we have a Christian Bookstore called Mardel's that sells everything from Bob Jones University Textbooks to Switched on Schoolhouse to Abeka, to the miscellaneous "build-your-own-curriculum" books. They have several aisles of nothing but science kits, craft kits, flash cards, math kits, models, etc. THAT'S where you need to be looking.

Get out your phone book, make some phone calls, and then get in your car and go visit a store. Or PM me where you live, and I'll personally locate a store for you to visit. :gaga

Ok. So, what you are saying is that I should get something that deals only with fractions and decimals, work that area until she gets it down pat, and then move on to graphs and probabilities, etc.? Ya know, that sounds like a good idea. Is there any specific order I should go in, based on the categories listed in my previous post? In other words, should we cover whole numbers first before moving on to fractions and decimals, etc.?


BTW, I am going to visit some Christian bookstores later this week for this home church thing we're starting. I will make sure to check into what kind of homeschooling supplies they have.

MissBrattified
05-27-2008, 03:17 PM
Ok. So, what you are saying is that I should get something that deals only with fractions and decimals, work that area until she gets it down pat, and then move on to graphs and probabilities, etc.? Ya know, that sounds like a good idea. Is there any specific order I should go in, based on the categories listed in my previous post? In other words, should we cover whole numbers first before moving on to fractions and decimals, etc.?

In my opinion, that would work best. Some of the newer public school curriculums try to combine too many concepts into one unit, and some children do better if they can focus on one thing at a time. Once she's mastered each concept, you might try doing mixed reviews of everything she's covered.

That's just my 2 cents.

I'm not sure about the order. I do think that you cover decimals and whole numbers before fractions, but I may have that backwards.

Rico
05-27-2008, 03:26 PM
In my opinion, that would work best. Some of the newer public school curriculums try to combine too many concepts into one unit, and some children do better if they can focus on one thing at a time. Once she's mastered each concept, you might try doing mixed reviews of everything she's covered.

That's just my 2 cents.

I'm not sure about the order. I do think that you cover decimals and whole numbers before fractions, but I may have that backwards.

Hmmmm. Maybe if I dig around a little bit I can find out what order those concepts should be taught in.



PO, you will be happy to find out she is at funbrain.com right now, playing some math games! :D I am going to check out another one called primarygames.com my oldest daughter told me about.

AmazingGrace
05-27-2008, 03:26 PM
Rico,

I am just now seeing this thread as I have been out of town but I saw something about SOS and I can say I honestly love that program. It has done my son very well and also been very challenging! The good thing about it is that his teacher can go and block out certain areas if she sees he is having trouble in a certain place and block it until she sees if he masters that area and then open it back up for him to go on.

Now off to read the rest of the posts!

Pressing-On
05-27-2008, 03:37 PM
Hmmmm. Maybe if I dig around a little bit I can find out what order those concepts should be taught in.



PO, you will be happy to find out she is at funbrain.com right now, playing some math games! :D I am going to check out another one called primarygames.com my oldest daughter told me about.

LOL! I wasn't referring to the games and I was joking with you. Probably not a good time to do that right now. I apologize for it.

It's just that an expensive curriculum is not necessary at the Elementary level. I could teach Elementary math with my hands tied behind my back and duct tape on my mouth. :killinme

You can teach any concept you want. They don't have to be in any order.

One important place you can order your concept workbooks would be www.christianbook.com/homeschool. They carry all the popular and tried curriculum being used in America. You'll find something that hits you as workable for your daughter, I'm sure.

Rote memory on multiplication is a must.

Okay, that's it. I'm trying to stay off this Forum so as not to be distracted. Please pray for our family. We are in the midst of a horrendous spiritual storm and I need someone's prayers to cover us. Thank you!

rgcraig
05-27-2008, 03:42 PM
Wal-Mart has flash cards and math books - get started with those while you are trying to decide which way to go.

Some things in math you just have to memorize!

Rico
05-27-2008, 03:46 PM
LOL! I wasn't referring to the games and I was joking with you. Probably not a good time to do that right now. I apologize for it.

It's just that an expensive curriculum is not necessary at the Elementary level. I could teach Elementary math with my hands tied behind my back and duct tape on my mouth. :killinme


Does this mean I can count on you to be on the next bus to Indiana? :D

You can teach any concept you want. They don't have to be in any order.

One important place you can order your concept workbooks would be www.christianbook.com/homeschool. They carry all the popular and tried curriculum being used in America. You'll find something that hits you as workable for your daughter, I'm sure.

Rote memory on multiplication is a must.

Okay, that's it. I'm trying to stay off this Forum so as not to be distracted. Please pray for our family. We are in the midst of a horrendous spiritual storm and I need someone's prayers to cover us. Thank you!

Seriously, I could probably teach her everything too, if I knew exactly what she's supposed to know at this age. I would much rather buy a program, though, than to just go it alone. That's why I am checking out all these different options, so I can find one that will fit. $64 doesn't sound like a lot of money to me. I can buy the whole program for the entire 3rd grade for $300. Even that doesn't sound like a lot of money to me, compared with all the expenses involved with having a child in public school. Anyway, I will keep you posted.

If you want to buddy up with me as an AFF Prayer Partner let me know.

Rico
05-27-2008, 03:48 PM
Wal-Mart has flash cards and math books - get started with those while you are trying to decide which way to go.

Some things in math you just have to memorize!

That is something else on my list of things to look into later this week. I know they have flash cards, but I haven't looked at anything else they might offer. The good part with all of this is that my daughter is totally on board with doing whatever it takes to learn her math. We'll see how she feels about it when it stops being fun and starts being work! :D

rgcraig
05-27-2008, 03:49 PM
That is something else on my list of things to look into later this week. I know they have flash cards, but I haven't looked at anything else they might offer. The good part with all of this is that my daughter is totally on board with doing whatever it takes to learn her math. We'll see how she feels about it when it stops being fun and starts being work! :D

They have workbooks and they are by grade level. I just saw them this weekend.

Pressing-On
05-27-2008, 03:52 PM
Seriously, I could probably teach her everything too, if I knew exactly what she's supposed to know at this age. I would much rather buy a program, though, than to just go it alone. That's why I am checking out all these different options, so I can find one that will fit. $64 doesn't sound like a lot of money to me. I can buy the whole program for the entire 3rd grade for $300. Even that doesn't sound like a lot of money to me, compared with all the expenses involved with having a child in public school. Anyway, I will keep you posted.

If you want to buddy up with me as an AFF Prayer Partner let me know.
I guess I'm thinking that because your daughter is an artist she needs to handle and touch to get the whole concept. I'm just not real big on computer programs for Math in the lower grades. That's just me. You know what will work for you.

Sure we could buddy up. How does that work?

Rico
05-27-2008, 03:53 PM
I guess I'm thinking that because your daughter is an artist she needs to handle and touch to get the whole concept. I'm just not real big on computer programs for Math in the lower grades. That's just me. You know what will work for you.

Sure we could buddy up. How does that work?

Incoming pm.

Pressing-On
05-27-2008, 03:58 PM
That is something else on my list of things to look into later this week. I know they have flash cards, but I haven't looked at anything else they might offer. The good part with all of this is that my daughter is totally on board with doing whatever it takes to learn her math. We'll see how she feels about it when it stops being fun and starts being work! :D
You will only need Multiplication flash cards. Everything else can be worked in her head if she wasn't taught the dot method on addition. Do you know if she was?

Rico
05-27-2008, 04:02 PM
I guess I'm thinking that because your daughter is an artist she needs to handle and touch to get the whole concept. I'm just not real big on computer programs for Math in the lower grades. That's just me. You know what will work for you.

Sure we could buddy up. How does that work?

I'm with you on her being a touchy feely kind of person. At the same time, I'd like for her to learn how to learn using books and a computer too. That's why I am hoping to go after this issue from more than one angle. I have realized that, even if we do get her caught up over the summer, we are probably going to have to supplement what she gets from public school from now on. I am just glad that we are taking care of this now, instead of trying to solve this problem in higher grades or worse, after she gets held back. I don't mean to sound like a name it and claim it whacko, but all of my kids are going to get an education, in JESUS NAME!!!

nahkoe
05-27-2008, 04:08 PM
I just found this cool looking math site.

http://www.mathfactcafe.com/

Not comprehensive but a nice solid foundation.

Rico
05-27-2008, 04:09 PM
You will only need Multiplication flash cards. Everything else can be worked in her head if she wasn't taught the dot method on addition. Do you know if she was?

I have no idea. I can tell you that she really didn't use the scratch paper as much as I thought she would when she took this diagnostic test. She counted a lot using her fingers, but when the problems got a little more complicated, she couldn't remember the part of the problem she had already figured out. It took everything I had not to step in and help her figure these problems out, but I wanted to get an accurate idea of where she is.

I also picked up on the fact that she has a slight problem with reading. She was squinting a lot, so I need to make an appointment for her with the eye doctor. I asked her if the squinting ever gives her a headache and she said yes. Time for glasses, I guess. That alone would probably make a big difference.

Pressing-On
05-27-2008, 04:17 PM
I'm with you on her being a touchy feely kind of person. At the same time, I'd like for her to learn how to learn using books and a computer too. That's why I am hoping to go after this issue from more than one angle. I have realized that, even if we do get her caught up over the summer, we are probably going to have to supplement what she gets from public school from now on. I am just glad that we are taking care of this now, instead of trying to solve this problem in higher grades or worse, after she gets held back. I don't mean to sound like a name it and claim it whacko, but all of my kids are going to get an education, in JESUS NAME!!!
I agree. I would play the games and possibly do the seatwork on the computer if that's what you want.

Not a wacko by any means. I pray about everything. If I lost something like my car keys I would pray that I will find them. He wants us to depend upon him that much.

Every problem I had in school, He answered. It was awesome.

I was so scared when I started out. I was teaching my daughter to read and it was already May!!! I wasn't sure I had done everything. I was kneeing by the bed crying and praying before the morning session.

After I prayed I opened my phonics book and read a couple of pages. That last page I needed to study for that day said, "If you have come this far you have taught the student everything they need to know to understand phonics."

I burst into tears! God helped me every step of the way because it's something I felt He wanted our family to do. My husband was 100% behind me and the children wanted to be homeschooled also.

As you venture along, it will all unfold and you will know, after praying, which direction to take. It just works that way.

AmazingGrace
05-27-2008, 04:19 PM
Rico,

This is not everyone but the glasses situation caused my daughter to totally fail 5 tests last year... that was the end of that! When the teachers had her retest she aced them! with glasses. Her issue is she would get so bogged down she would say everything blurred and numbers were horrible!

Rico
05-27-2008, 04:20 PM
Rico,

This is not everyone but the glasses situation caused my daughter to totally fail 5 tests last year... that was the end of that! When the teachers had her retest she aced them! with glasses. Her issue is she would get so bogged down she would say everything blurred and numbers were horrible!

Thank God for word problems or I probably wouldn't have noticed that she was squinting. I wear glasses too, so I know about that headache and how it can get smack dab in the middle of the way!

Pressing-On
05-27-2008, 04:21 PM
I have no idea. I can tell you that she really didn't use the scratch paper as much as I thought she would when she took this diagnostic test. She counted a lot using her fingers, but when the problems got a little more complicated, she couldn't remember the part of the problem she had already figured out. It took everything I had not to step in and help her figure these problems out, but I wanted to get an accurate idea of where she is.

I also picked up on the fact that she has a slight problem with reading. She was squinting a lot, so I need to make an appointment for her with the eye doctor. I asked her if the squinting ever gives her a headache and she said yes. Time for glasses, I guess. That alone would probably make a big difference.

Glasses would be a great start.

If she is counting on her fingers she doesn't have good comprehension in basic addition. That is the foundation of everything.

My son is doing fractions in his head at work and telling the lead welder what the answers are. I'm so amazed and proud of him. The guy just looks at him and says, "Shut up!" lol

A man, at work, told our husband. You all did a fine job homeschooling your son.

Rico, you have no idea the pressure I was under and the things people said. Today, I can look back and be proud of what we did and proud of God for helping me. I homeschooled for five years without a support group of any kind and my church against it. It was tough!

nahkoe
05-27-2008, 04:47 PM
If she is counting on her fingers she doesn't have good comprehension in basic addition. That is the foundation of everything.

PO, according to you I don't have good comprehension of basic addition. I could read into this that since I'm lacking that, I'm never going to do well at math. I still add on my fingers. I can not memorize multiplication tables and calculate every multiplication problem using addition, which I do use my fingers for. I also just did some reading up on the touch method (what you're calling the dot method) for addition and I created my own modified form of this to get through math. I am also an extremely visual person, to be honest I see myself in a lot of what Rico has said about his daughter. Some people just think differently, it doesn't make their methods wrong. I think for some children, the touch method is going to be their key to unlocking the world of math. For others, not so much.

Rico's taking the time to look at his daughter, her learning style, what resources are available, and attempting to create an enrichment program that will carry her through school. Not an easy game for sure. It's making me almost crazy to see you saying there is absolutely one way that's good, or that something is absolutely bad. That is simply not true. Each program that exists will work for a number of students. Learning styles are so varied, and so fascinating.

Pressing-On
05-27-2008, 05:16 PM
PO, according to you I don't have good comprehension of basic addition. I could read into this that since I'm lacking that, I'm never going to do well at math. I still add on my fingers. I can not memorize multiplication tables and calculate every multiplication problem using addition, which I do use my fingers for. I also just did some reading up on the touch method (what you're calling the dot method) for addition and I created my own modified form of this to get through math. I am also an extremely visual person, to be honest I see myself in a lot of what Rico has said about his daughter. Some people just think differently, it doesn't make their methods wrong. I think for some children, the touch method is going to be their key to unlocking the world of math. For others, not so much.

Rico's taking the time to look at his daughter, her learning style, what resources are available, and attempting to create an enrichment program that will carry her through school. Not an easy game for sure. It's making me almost crazy to see you saying there is absolutely one way that's good, or that something is absolutely bad. That is simply not true. Each program that exists will work for a number of students. Learning styles are so varied, and so fascinating.
I believe they do term this as the "Dot-notation" approach. From my understanding it is effective for intellectually disabled people, but will slow down your normal student. I believe I agree with this.

As I have stated, Math is a science that does not change. Rote memorization is the most time tested route to go. It doesn't change much from that.

Yes, learning styles are different. That is why I suggested games, which includes flash cards and workbooks/seatwork. Those are the two most effective methods.

I'm sorry that I have offended you. It was not my purpose. I have seen people struggle so much choosing from the various choices on the market. I was trying to simplify the process.

I hope you can forgive me for being aggressive on this subject. I'll try to do better.

nahkoe
05-27-2008, 06:21 PM
I believe they do term this as the "Dot-notation" approach. From my understanding it is effective for intellectually disabled people, but will slow down your normal student. I believe I agree with this.

I did see several articles referencing the benefits for disabled students. I think it'll slow down students who don't need it, I probably wouldn't want to see it taught in a classroom setting, but I definitely see benefits in a tutoring situation, or like Rico is doing, if it fits the student's needs.

I would be interested to find out if anyone has ever worked out at least some of the why this method seems beneficial for mentally disabled students. I'd also be curious to know if there's any data on highly gifted kids and this method. If I remember when I have time I may do some digging and see what I can find.

As I have stated, Math is a science that does not change. Rote memorization is the most time tested route to go. It doesn't change much from that.

But, rote memorization lets you down after awhile. You have to understand the concepts, and how to get the answer, not just remember what the answer is. You can look at 2 times 3 and know it's 6, but why is it 6? I use pies and plates sometimes, if you have 2 plates, and both plates have 3 pieces of pie on them, that's 6 pieces total. If you don't understand this concept, later on when you have to factor, you'll be completely sunk. I do think a lot of people manage to pick that information up somewhere along the line, but some just completely miss it. They manage to give the correct answer so they must understand the concepts needed to get the answer, and that's not always true.

Yes, learning styles are different. That is why I suggested games, which includes flash cards and workbooks/seatwork. Those are the two most effective methods.

I'm sorry that I have offended you. It was not my purpose. I have seen people struggle so much choosing from the various choices on the market. I was trying to simplify the process.

This is true, there are so many things out there it's daunting to select which will be most beneficial.

I hope you can forgive me for being aggressive on this subject. I'll try to do better.

I can, and me too. lol

Rico
05-27-2008, 06:52 PM
I did see several articles referencing the benefits for disabled students. I think it'll slow down students who don't need it, I probably wouldn't want to see it taught in a classroom setting, but I definitely see benefits in a tutoring situation, or like Rico is doing, if it fits the student's needs.

I would be interested to find out if anyone has ever worked out at least some of the why this method seems beneficial for mentally disabled students. I'd also be curious to know if there's any data on highly gifted kids and this method. If I remember when I have time I may do some digging and see what I can find.



But, rote memorization lets you down after awhile. You have to understand the concepts, and how to get the answer, not just remember what the answer is. You can look at 2 times 3 and know it's 6, but why is it 6? I use pies and plates sometimes, if you have 2 plates, and both plates have 3 pieces of pie on them, that's 6 pieces total. If you don't understand this concept, later on when you have to factor, you'll be completely sunk. I do think a lot of people manage to pick that information up somewhere along the line, but some just completely miss it. They manage to give the correct answer so they must understand the concepts needed to get the answer, and that's not always true.





This is true, there are so many things out there it's daunting to select which will be most beneficial.



I can, and me too. lol

If I tried that she'd have about 3 seconds to figure out the answer before one of them pieces of pie would disappear (we'd be working on subtraction then). Within around 5 minutes I'd be teaching her the concept of nuthin from nuthin leaves nuthin! :toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

nahkoe
05-27-2008, 06:56 PM
If I tried that she'd have about 3 seconds to figure out the answer before one of them pieces of pie would disappear (we'd be working on subtraction then). Within around 5 minutes I'd be teaching her the concept of nuthin from nuthin leaves nuthin! :toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

:toofunny I didn't say *real* plates with pie. :p Lego work well for actual manipulatives. I've used M&Ms before too. That did become more of a division problem than multiplication. lol

Rico
05-27-2008, 07:12 PM
:toofunny I didn't say *real* plates with pie. :p Lego work well for actual manipulatives. I've used M&Ms before too. That did become more of a division problem than multiplication. lol

Sister, you have no idea how hard I was laughing when I thought about eating them pieces of pie! I needed a good laugh too! This day has been draining. I do feel better about this whole thing after today.


I appreciate all you Sisters for offering your advice. It means a lot to me. Really, it does. You all have been such a big help. :)

Pressing-On
05-27-2008, 07:22 PM
I did see several articles referencing the benefits for disabled students. I think it'll slow down students who don't need it, I probably wouldn't want to see it taught in a classroom setting, but I definitely see benefits in a tutoring situation, or like Rico is doing, if it fits the student's needs.

I would be interested to find out if anyone has ever worked out at least some of the why this method seems beneficial for mentally disabled students. I'd also be curious to know if there's any data on highly gifted kids and this method. If I remember when I have time I may do some digging and see what I can find.
I'm sure you'll find something. Lots of interesting info. I just don't have the time to wade through it all right now.



But, rote memorization lets you down after awhile. You have to understand the concepts, and how to get the answer, not just remember what the answer is. You can look at 2 times 3 and know it's 6, but why is it 6? I use pies and plates sometimes, if you have 2 plates, and both plates have 3 pieces of pie on them, that's 6 pieces total. If you don't understand this concept, later on when you have to factor, you'll be completely sunk. I do think a lot of people manage to pick that information up somewhere along the line, but some just completely miss it. They manage to give the correct answer so they must understand the concepts needed to get the answer, and that's not always true.
I don't see how rote memorization can let you down after a while. Once that is learned it's there, forever.

I believe the use of manipulatives is something introduced in the earlier stages of Kindergarten and well into 1st grade, at least. That is where the basic knowledge of "concept" is supposed to be introduced. If not, someone has made a mistake.

We counted everything - eggs, toothpicks, pennies, pebbles, marbles, matches, corn, beans - and YES - LEGOS!!!

I have a huge storage bin full of Legos! The toy of choice! I'm saving them for if I ever have grandchildren. lol

I use to purchase Legos after Christmas when they were half price. You know the castles that are over $50? The pirate ship? I love all of those. The western towns. We even used to get their magazine in the mail and order from Lego directly. LOL!







This is true, there are so many things out there it's daunting to select which will be most beneficial.
Yes! I was so overwhelmed in the beginning!



I can, and me too. lol
Wonderful! How did I do this time? lol

Pressing-On
05-27-2008, 07:29 PM
This site is very informative and interesting.


Homeschooling Visual-Spatial and Creative Learners

http://www.homeschooldiner.com/specials/visual_spatial/main.html

Fun Ways to Use Math

http://www.homeschooldiner.com/subjects/math/enrichment_math.html

Pressing-On
05-27-2008, 07:50 PM
Rico,
This looks great!

Click-O-Matic" Guide to Choosing a Homeschool Approach


The Homeschool Diner's
"Click-O-Matic" Guide to
Choosing a Homeschool Approach

Overwhelmed by all the choices in homeschooling approaches
and curriculum? As a homeschooling parent you have the freedom to
choose the best educational approach for each of your children. Whether
you choose to follow a public school scope and sequence or try out an
alternative approach; whether you choose to buy a curriculum or pull
together your own resources, it's entirely up to you. It is a big decision!

Try out the Homeschool Diner's "Click-O-Matic Guide to Choosing a
Homeschool Approach! It's a quiz --- and an annotated guide --
designed to help you think about what kind of approach you and your
student really need...

This Click-O-Matic approach to looking at curriculum may help you find
just what you've been looking for! If you see descriptions that match your
student -- take a look at the approaches recommended for that
characteristic, and then "Click" on the ones you'd like to read more about.
If you see a topic that applies to you, as the homeschooling parent -- take
a look at the recommendations, and then "Click" on the ones you want to
explore.... Dont' wait! Act now! Just "Click" on the topics below to begin!


http://www.homeschooldiner.com/quiz/click_o_matic_guide_to_homeschool.html

nahkoe
05-27-2008, 08:22 PM
I'm sure you'll find something. Lots of interesting info. I just don't have the time to wade through it all right now.

Ditto.


I don't see how rote memorization can let you down after a while. Once that is learned it's there, forever.

Because math isn't about memorizing, it's about calculating and finding possible solutions. :) It really does depend how far you're going to go with it, I tutor students totally differently based on their majors.

I believe the use of manipulatives is something introduced in the earlier stages of Kindergarten and well into 1st grade, at least. That is where the basic knowledge of "concept" is supposed to be introduced. If not, someone has made a mistake.

Or the student figured out how to give the right answer without understanding the concept. Or, any number of things can go wrong. It's not usually too big of a deal, except that the longer a student goes without understanding it, the harder it is for them to believe they can understand it.

We counted everything - eggs, toothpicks, pennies, pebbles, marbles, matches, corn, beans - and YES - LEGOS!!!

I have a huge storage bin full of Legos! The toy of choice! I'm saving them for if I ever have grandchildren. lol

I use to purchase Legos after Christmas when they were half price. You know the castles that are over $50? The pirate ship? I love all of those. The western towns. We even used to get their magazine in the mail and order from Lego directly. LOL!

I've never had the money to buy much lego, but we sure do have quite a collection. lol It's one of the few things I'm making sure gets to Texas with us.


Wonderful! How did I do this time? lol

I don't know for sure. You'll have to keep trying and I'll let you know later. :tic

Pressing-On
05-27-2008, 08:51 PM
Ditto.




Because math isn't about memorizing, it's about calculating and finding possible solutions. :) It really does depend how far you're going to go with it, I tutor students totally differently based on their majors.
I guess I'm thinking from a homeschool perspective. We are actually tutoring and know if a child is getting something or not.

But aren't there things that are important for memorization like multiplication? I can't imagine not struggling if I didn't know the tables by heart.

How do you tutor based on their major and how do you assess them?



Or the student figured out how to give the right answer without understanding the concept. Or, any number of things can go wrong. It's not usually too big of a deal, except that the longer a student goes without understanding it, the harder it is for them to believe they can understand it.
I could see that happening.



I've never had the money to buy much lego, but we sure do have quite a collection. lol It's one of the few things I'm making sure gets to Texas with us. I always bought the kits on sale. January is the best time.




I don't know for sure. You'll have to keep trying and I'll let you know later. :tic
:toofunny

nahkoe
05-27-2008, 09:53 PM
I guess I'm thinking from a homeschool perspective. We are actually tutoring and know if a child is getting something or not.

Teaching and tutoring are a little different, IMO. I'm pretty familiar with homeschooling (I was homeschooled, as were my siblings, as was my ex, and his siblings, and most of my friends homeschool their kids, and I homeschooled mine up until this year). It depends on your approach which you end up doing, IMO teaching is more the introducing of new concepts and explaining them the standard way (or the way explained in the textbook used). Tutoring is working with those concepts until they make sense. This, is strictly an "in my own head" sort of distinction, not something I've seen anywhere and it's also subject to change at any moment. :toofunny

But aren't there things that are important for memorization like multiplication? I can't imagine not struggling if I didn't know the tables by heart.

I have never memorized the multiplication tables. I calculate very quickly in my head. If I can't remember 8 times 9 (and I never, ever can..lol) I know that 4 times 9 is 36, 36 plus 36 is 72. Or, I use a calculator. lol I'm in college, no one knows! There are some multiplication problems I can remember, but not all of them. The ones I can remember, I usually visualize as something totally different, using memory tricks I guess. Honestly, how I think is extremely difficult to explain. lol Sometimes I think my head is broken.

I really haven't studied too much into elementary school memorization, but I do think it would probably be pretty possible to succeed in college math without ever memorizing the things they expect you to in elementary school. I was one of the students who *really* slipped through the cracks and I really picked up very, very little in elementary school math.

Most of my students struggle with elementary school concepts, 3rd grade especially (I had 2 kids in 3rd this year, I always found it amusing when I was helping with homework on the same concepts I just tutored earlier..lol). This makes me think a lot more students miss things than really get noticed until they *do* get to college and try to meet the math requirements for a degree. It also makes me think that memorizing them is *not* important. I don't have my students memorize (usually, there are some exceptions) but show them why it works, if you can see why you can *always* find the answer, vs memorizing and only seeing the answers to what you have memorized. My brain seems to shut off at the end of the semester and I'm having trouble coming up with one of those glaring examples I know I have.

How do you tutor based on their major and how do you assess them?

If all they need to do is pass pre-credit algebra, I use a lot more memorization (this is my exception) for concepts they absolutely can not grasp. It's a cheat though, it will do them no favors if they choose to go into a math heavy major later on. There are some things that in pre-credit algebra are *always* and therefore you can memorize them, but if you go into college algebra, or pre-calculus or beyond, they are NOT always and memorizing them that way would be painful later on. (imaginary numbers mess with "always", so do radicals, so does trig, but it adds about a zillion new ones..lol...trig is DEFINITELY my exception to memorization, but even in trig you only need to know enough to pass the test, once you do that the concept is far, far more important than memorizing the trig functions..you get books to look those up in when you need to use them).

If they're going into a math heavy major, I absolutely never use those cheats. I will spend hours and hours explaining the same thing in every different way possible, and researching new ways to explain it, but I'll never say "you only need to know this much to pass this class and go on".

Multiplication is actually one thing I think is taught horribly wrong in elementary school. I tutor *college* algebra, and I spend way too much time explaining the pieces of pie on plates concept. It's extremely difficult to factor if you can't see the pieces. (I do tutor a lot of visual learners, it seems we struggle with math quite a lot...lol). Even my non-visual learners do well with this explanation though. Positive/negative sign is another one, you can *memorize* how it works, but my students always mess it up (and this is one thing you can almost always trip a math professor up on too...negative signs are miserable things). I teach my very own "invisible 1" theory. lol My students rarely make another mistake once they grasp what I'm trying to say, and it's saved more tests for me than I care to think about.

Slope is a big one that's explained differently depending on the major, you really don't need to understand that x and y mean something if you're not going into engineering or math. If you are, you'd better understand how they relate to what you're solving for (engineering especially..if you don't understand how x, y, and z coordinates relate to trig and what it means, you will have big problems) I also break the pieces down much, much smaller for math heavy majors. I tutored an engineering student this last semester and we spent a lot of time going over WHY things work. Memorizing was failing him miserably, you can't apply concepts if you just memorize the solutions. If you can't apply concepts, your bridge is not going to work right. If your bridge doesn't work right, you're going to have some unhappy people.

I assess based on questions I ask, what I see them struggling with, what I know their major is, their goals (barely pass, or an A), and my own intuition. I also base my decisions about how much to push the concepts on how the student is doing emotionally. Math anxiety is painfully real and if they're near tears and ready to throw things at the wall (or me? lol) I decide the concept isn't that important and give the shortcuts. Sometimes we touch on it later and it makes sense, sometimes it's just one of those concepts we decide to forfeit for that course.

AmazingGrace
05-28-2008, 02:49 AM
Well Rico there is hope yet! I just got an email at 2 this morning which I had been waiting for 2 days. From my sons teacher... He went into our church school which uses SOS in November. He entered wayyyyyyyyyy behind... and under a lot of stress. His entrance test scores were horribly low... Absolutely no way the boy could catch up... not this yr at least... He has 2 units to do to be completed with the grade and be on schedule... and.... His test scores are all 92% or higher!!!!!!!! This is a miracle for my son... you would have to know the whole situation but this is nothing but God so I tell you to be patient with her which is what it is very evident by this thread that you are doing but most of all keep the faith! He was a very slow learner and he is so much like your daughter I cant even begin to tell ya :)

Pressing-On
05-28-2008, 05:26 AM
Well Rico there is hope yet! I just got an email at 2 this morning which I had been waiting for 2 days. From my sons teacher... He went into our church school which uses SOS in November. He entered wayyyyyyyyyy behind... and under a lot of stress. His entrance test scores were horribly low... Absolutely no way the boy could catch up... not this yr at least... He has 2 units to do to be completed with the grade and be on schedule... and.... His test scores are all 92% or higher!!!!!!!! This is a miracle for my son... you would have to know the whole situation but this is nothing but God so I tell you to be patient with her which is what it is very evident by this thread that you are doing but most of all keep the faith! He was a very slow learner and he is so much like your daughter I cant even begin to tell ya :)

Totally awesome, AG!!! Congratulations!!!!!!

:bliss:bliss

Rico
05-28-2008, 09:38 AM
Well Rico there is hope yet! I just got an email at 2 this morning which I had been waiting for 2 days. From my sons teacher... He went into our church school which uses SOS in November. He entered wayyyyyyyyyy behind... and under a lot of stress. His entrance test scores were horribly low... Absolutely no way the boy could catch up... not this yr at least... He has 2 units to do to be completed with the grade and be on schedule... and.... His test scores are all 92% or higher!!!!!!!! This is a miracle for my son... you would have to know the whole situation but this is nothing but God so I tell you to be patient with her which is what it is very evident by this thread that you are doing but most of all keep the faith! He was a very slow learner and he is so much like your daughter I cant even begin to tell ya :)

This is great news!

Rico
05-29-2008, 11:09 AM
Ok. My daughter and I have discussed it, we've been to the website and looked at their software presentation, and decided to go with the Switched On Schoolhouse program. We have also decided to get Peggy Kaye's Games For Math as a supplement. She is excited about learning and ready to overcome her fears over math, and I am excited with her. Dad is going to let her use his laptop to do her schoolwork, so she really feels like she is special. (No one, not even my wife, gets to touch that laptop. :D) We are hoping to get through the entire program before she goes back to school in August. Thank you to everyone for your help. I really appreciate it. :) I will keep y'all posted on her progress.

nahkoe
05-29-2008, 11:18 AM
Ok. My daughter and I have discussed it, we've been to the website and looked at their software presentation, and decided to go with the Switched On Schoolhouse program. We have also decided to get Peggy Kaye's Games For Math as a supplement. She is excited about learning and ready to overcome her fears over math, and I am excited with her. Dad is going to let her use his laptop to do her schoolwork, so she really feels like she is special. (No one, not even my wife, gets to touch that laptop. :D) We are hoping to get through the entire program before she goes back to school in August. Thank you to everyone for your help. I really appreciate it. :) I will keep y'all posted on her progress.

Cool! I have quite a few friends who've loved Switched on Schoolhouse. :) I hope it works as well for you! Good luck getting everything done this summer while still keeping it fun.

That's just great about the laptop. lol Talk about incentive!

Rico
05-29-2008, 11:23 AM
Cool! I have quite a few friends who've loved Switched on Schoolhouse. :) I hope it works as well for you! Good luck getting everything done this summer while still keeping it fun.

That's just great about the laptop. lol Talk about incentive!

She about jumped out of the chair when I told her she could use it for her schoolwork! :D Pretty slick, huh?

nahkoe
05-29-2008, 11:26 AM
She about jumped out of the chair when I told her she could use it for her schoolwork! :D Pretty slick, huh?

Definitely. lol

I told my daughter something kind of similar last night. Now, of course, I'd get myself told I'm splitting hell wide open if I told you what she gets to do tonight. It required washing the walls in her room and cleaning a bathroom last night though. lol Ahhh..that's how to do housework..let me tell ya.

Pressing-On
05-29-2008, 12:42 PM
Ok. My daughter and I have discussed it, we've been to the website and looked at their software presentation, and decided to go with the Switched On Schoolhouse program. We have also decided to get Peggy Kaye's Games For Math as a supplement. She is excited about learning and ready to overcome her fears over math, and I am excited with her. Dad is going to let her use his laptop to do her schoolwork, so she really feels like she is special. (No one, not even my wife, gets to touch that laptop. :D) We are hoping to get through the entire program before she goes back to school in August. Thank you to everyone for your help. I really appreciate it. :) I will keep y'all posted on her progress.

I am thrilled for you, Rico!!! We tried the SOS and my kids didn't take to it, but I can see how others would like it.

Rico
05-29-2008, 01:02 PM
I am thrilled for you, Rico!!! We tried the SOS and my kids didn't take to it, but I can see how others would like it.

In the presentation video it showed how each lesson includes a video to help the student grasp the concept being presented. She really liked that. Another feature she liked is the ability to highlight parts of the lesson and save it, to help her if she needs to go back to it. One part I liked is that she can highlight any part, right click it, and the program will read that part out loud to her. This could be a big help with word problems.

Pressing-On
05-29-2008, 01:04 PM
In the presentation video it showed how each lesson includes a video to help the student grasp the concept being presented. She really liked that. Another feature she liked is the ability to highlight parts of the lesson and save it, to help her if she needs to go back to it. One part I liked is that she can highlight any part, right click it, and the program will read that part out loud to her. This could be a big help with word problems.

I'm thrilled and mainly because she was involved in seeing what would work for her. Great!!!!! You might decide to teach her from here on out!!! Scary!!! :toofunny

See, I'm posting again. I need help!!!! :killinme

Rico
06-10-2008, 04:14 PM
Un update:

The materials we ordered arrived today. :D:D:D:D:D:D My daughter and I just finished looking through the book and we are going to load the program on to the laptop tomorrow and away we go!! She is so excited! She hugged me, told me thank you, gave me a big old smooch on the cheek and everything, without me having to ask for it!! :bliss

AmazingGrace
06-10-2008, 05:04 PM
what did you go with Rico?

Rico
06-10-2008, 05:06 PM
what did you go with Rico?

I bought Switched on Schoolhouse's 3rd grade Math program and the Games For Math book by Peggy Kaye.

AmazingGrace
06-10-2008, 05:12 PM
I bought Switched on Schoolhouse's 3rd grade Math program and the Games For Math book by Peggy Kaye.

awesome!!!

Rico
06-11-2008, 06:37 PM
She did her first lesson today. I was there with her, to help her learn how to navigate the program. She did well. I need some advice though. How many hours a day, or lessons per day, do you think I should have her complete? I realize that learning how this program works slowed things down today quite a bit, but it still took her two hours to get it done. I am thinking of setting a 4-5 hour time limit on lessons, and however long she wants to play the games (funbrain, PK's book, etc.).

AmazingGrace
06-11-2008, 09:29 PM
This is just my opinion but I would go with 3 hrs since thats what a course of summer school is... and let her possibly have one day off a week... 3 hrs a day or 2 hrs a day w no day off???? Of course off all weekends unless she choses otherwise I would think...

Rico
06-11-2008, 09:47 PM
This is just my opinion but I would go with 3 hrs since thats what a course of summer school is... and let her possibly have one day off a week... 3 hrs a day or 2 hrs a day w no day off???? Of course off all weekends unless she choses otherwise I would think...

Well, I was hoping to squeeze the whole program into the summer. It's a school year's worth of work.

MissBrattified
06-11-2008, 09:50 PM
She did her first lesson today. I was there with her, to help her learn how to navigate the program. She did well. I need some advice though. How many hours a day, or lessons per day, do you think I should have her complete? I realize that learning how this program works slowed things down today quite a bit, but it still took her two hours to get it done. I am thinking of setting a 4-5 hour time limit on lessons, and however long she wants to play the games (funbrain, PK's book, etc.).

How much of the summer do you want to spend on this program? How many lessons or units are there? Set it up on a logical timeframe based on either covering a certain number of units per day, or divide them among a few weeks. (e.g., if there are 25 units, plan on covering 1 per day for 4 weeks.)

Even though she does need to master this material, try not to make the schedule too demanding. If you do two hours, I would do an hour, take a break (20-30 minutes), and do the other hour. In my personal opinion, 4-5 hours is way too long to spend on a single subject. Children simply don't have an attention span that will hold out that long.

If you were covering multiple subjects, it would be different. It would preferable to move slowly, maybe make the first hour about completing a certain amount of work, and the second hour to review, go over the things she didn't understand, correct mistakes, etc.

Also, after a good night's rest, and a high protein-low sugar breakfast, morning or mid-morning is probably the best time to study.

AmazingGrace
06-11-2008, 09:50 PM
Well, I was hoping to squeeze the whole program into the summer. It's a school year's worth of work.

It should possibly work... figure it I dont know how many units that one has but my son did a whole yr since Dec... so maybe??? But he is also in the structured environment of a church school

Rico
06-11-2008, 09:53 PM
How much of the summer do you want to spend on this program? How many lessons or units are there? Set it up on a logical timeframe based on either covering a certain number of units per day, or divide them among a few weeks. (e.g., if there are 28 units, plan on covering 1 per day for 4 weeks.)

Even though she does need to master this material, try not to make the schedule too demanding. If you do two hours, I would do an hour, take a break (20-30 minutes), and do the other hour. In my personal opinion, 4-5 hours is way too long to spend on a single subject. Children simply don't have an attention span that will hold out that long.

If you were covering multiple subjects, it would be different.

Also, after a good night's rest, and a high protein breakfast-low sugar breakfast, morning or mid-morning is probably the best time to study.

Hmmmm. You have a point about her attention span. I hadn't really thought about how many breaks or how long they should be. She really wants to do this. She was drivin me nuts asking when it would arrive. I'd like to take advantage of her enthusiasm before she figures out this is work. lol

MissBrattified
06-11-2008, 09:54 PM
Well, I was hoping to squeeze the whole program into the summer. It's a school year's worth of work.

Yikes. I didn't think of that. Well, divide it up as you need to, but be reasonable and not overly Gestapo about the matter. The goal should be her understanding each area, not necessarily perfect completion of the entire course.

MissBrattified
06-11-2008, 09:55 PM
Hmmmm. You have a point about her attention span. I hadn't really thought about how many breaks or how long they should be. She really wants to do this. She was drivin me nuts asking when it would arrive. I'd like to take advantage of her enthusiasm before she figures out this is work. lol

LOL!!! Well, the good news is, when she loses her enthusiasm will probably be about the same time she comes up against a problem area, so that will be enlightening for you, The Teacher. :)

Rico
06-11-2008, 09:59 PM
Maybe we will simply take it a day at a time. I will give her a minimum amount of work she needs to get done. If she wants to do more than that, then it will be up to her. I've already told her that weekends are out. I will watch her for the next couple of days to see at about what amount of time she she starts to get tired of it. I still need to get her eyes checked though.

Rico
06-11-2008, 10:00 PM
I will say this much. This is such a different approach to learning.

Pressing-On
06-12-2008, 07:45 AM
Hmmmm. You have a point about her attention span. I hadn't really thought about how many breaks or how long they should be. She really wants to do this. She was drivin me nuts asking when it would arrive. I'd like to take advantage of her enthusiasm before she figures out this is work. lol
From my experience, when we took a break for 15 min between classes it was hard to get their attention again. You'll have to work that out as you go along and see what works best for her. Not every child or every day is the same. The beauty of homeschooling - the flexibility.

Maybe we will simply take it a day at a time. I will give her a minimum amount of work she needs to get done. If she wants to do more than that, then it will be up to her. I've already told her that weekends are out. I will watch her for the next couple of days to see at about what amount of time she she starts to get tired of it. I still need to get her eyes checked though.
Good approach and plan. Some concepts will be more interesting than others and she will breeze through them. That's the lessons that she will get ahead in.

I'd use the Peggy Kaye book only if she is having a hard time understanding any particular concept with the curriculum you are using.

You can sell it later at www.vegsource.com/homeschool

I will say this much. This is such a different approach to learning.
Yes, it certainly is. When you begin it can be a bit overwhelming, but then it begins to even out and make sense.

Praying for you!!

Rico
06-12-2008, 07:52 AM
From my experience, when we took a break for 15 min between classes it was hard to get their attention again. You'll have to work that out as you go along and see what works best for her. Not every child or every day is the same. The beauty of homeschooling - the flexibility.


Good approach and plan. Some concepts will be more interesting than others and she will breeze through them. That's the lessons that she will get ahead in.

I'd use the Peggy Kaye book only if she is having a hard time understanding any particular concept with the curriculum you are using.

You can sell it later at www.vegsource.com/homeschool


Yes, it certainly is. When you begin it can be a bit overwhelming, but then it begins to even out and make sense.

Praying for you!!

TY. Actually, I kinda of like this approach. She can work at her own pace, free from the pressures at school to get her assignments done by a certain time. If she has to go over something repeatedly, until she gets it, it's no big deal. Another thing I like is that I can check on her progress on a daily basis, instead of having to wait until something becomes enough of a problem that the teacher sends a note home.

Pressing-On
06-12-2008, 07:58 AM
TY. Actually, I kinda of like this approach. She can work at her own pace, free from the pressures at school to get her assignments done by a certain time. If she has to go over something repeatedly, until she gets it, it's no big deal. Another thing I like is that I can check on her progress on a daily basis, instead of having to wait until something becomes enough of a problem that the teacher sends a note home.

Rico,
That is what I loved so much about homeschooling - setting their pace and knowing what they were doing and if they were getting it right.

I never knew what they were doing in Kindergarten with my daughter. The teacher would send home papers that were not hers, etc. It was so frustrating.

Someone asked me what grades my kids were making. I said, "They make A's because we have time to make sure they make A's." lol

MissBrattified
06-12-2008, 08:03 AM
PO, I need some ADVICE!!!!

Okay, I doubt if most of you know this, but the year after my Dad passed away, we put our kids back in *gulp* public school. This coming fall will be the first year they will be homeschooled since then. The reasons for that are varied, personal, and complicated, so I won't address them.

BUT: Here's my dilemma:

I am going to use traditional textbooks from BJU press (which I really like, after looking through quite a few different curriculums)...right now I am laying out a schedule for the coming school year, I've created their field trip calendar, etc. etc. So I've gotten around to working out the daily schedule, and I realize that I have a problem.

How am I going to fit in 3 different kids at 3 different grade levels without distracting one while teaching the other?????

Pressing-On
06-12-2008, 08:13 AM
PO, I need some ADVICE!!!!

Okay, I doubt if most of you know this, but the year after my Dad passed away, we put our kids back in *gulp* public school. This coming fall will be the first year they will be homeschooled since then. The reasons for that are varied, personal, and complicated, so I won't address them.

BUT: Here's my dilemma:

I am going to use traditional textbooks from BJU press (which I really like, after looking through quite a few different curriculums)...right now I am laying out a schedule for the coming school year, I've created their field trip calendar, etc. etc. So I've gotten around to working out the daily schedule, and I realize that I have a problem.

How am I going to fit in 3 different kids at 3 different grade levels without distracting one while teaching the other?????
Abigail,
I don't know how old your children are.

If you have one child that needs more of your help, then I would schedule the other children with a class that they can do on their own.

If I had two children that needed help in Math, I would schedule that class together. Most of the help or instruction doesn't take that long and they will learn, at least in part, from each other.

Glad you are homeschooling again. One of my sisters is using BJU and loves it. I never used curriculum from one company, but I did use a lot of ABEKA's History, Science, Government, and Economics.

Rico
06-12-2008, 03:16 PM
PO, I need some ADVICE!!!!

Okay, I doubt if most of you know this, but the year after my Dad passed away, we put our kids back in *gulp* public school. This coming fall will be the first year they will be homeschooled since then. The reasons for that are varied, personal, and complicated, so I won't address them.

BUT: Here's my dilemma:

I am going to use traditional textbooks from BJU press (which I really like, after looking through quite a few different curriculums)...right now I am laying out a schedule for the coming school year, I've created their field trip calendar, etc. etc. So I've gotten around to working out the daily schedule, and I realize that I have a problem.

How am I going to fit in 3 different kids at 3 different grade levels without distracting one while teaching the other?????

Headphones, and not those cheapy kind that barely cover the ears. Give them the kind that are used for safety and they won't be able to hear a thing you are saying to their sister or brother. You could also buy ear plugs. How's that for a manly approach? :D

Rico
06-12-2008, 03:17 PM
Well, today hasn't gone as well as I had hoped. :( She has missed a bunch of these problems. She isn't giving up though.

Rico
06-23-2008, 02:30 PM
Well, gang, so far she is running a B in this course. I do believe it is working! Kabuyaka!!! :D

Pressing-On
06-23-2008, 02:31 PM
Well, gang, so far she is running a B in this course. I do believe it is working! Kabuyaka!!! :D

A "B" is excellent being it's new material and a new program! She can only excel!

Praying, Rico!

Rico
06-23-2008, 02:33 PM
A "B" is excellent being it's new material and a new program! She can only excel!

Praying, Rico!

Thanks. I am very proud of her. I get the feeling that we aren't going to get through this whole program before school starts again, but I am hoping that her successes with it will give her some much needed confidence. We even worked out our own personal handshake! :D

Pressing-On
06-23-2008, 02:34 PM
Thanks. I am very proud of her. I get the feeling that we aren't going to get through this whole program before school starts again, but I am hoping that her successes with it will give her some much needed confidence. We even worked out our own personal handshake! :D

I'm sure you won't either, but what you will do is get more comfortable with the program and learn to find the points that need to be covered.

Does it have a some sort of chapter review tests? You could take the various ones given. She may be able to opt out of some of the material.

Rico
06-23-2008, 02:36 PM
I'm sure you won't either, but what you will do is get more comfortable with the program and learn to find the points that need to be covered.

Does it have a some sort of chapter review tests? You could take the various ones given. She may be able to opt out of some of the material.

There is a way for me to remove aspects of the training, but I'd much rather have her go through the whole thing, just to make sure we don't miss anything.

Pressing-On
06-23-2008, 02:38 PM
There is a way for me to remove aspects of the training, but I'd much rather have her go through the whole thing, just to make sure we don't miss anything.

Well, I can see you wanting to do that, as you've spent the money, BUT if you are pressed for time as the concepts get more difficult when you progress, you might want to cover those more. At some point you might want to find out what she doesn't need to spend as much time on. Just a suggestion.

You can make that decision better in a month from now.

Glad it's working for you.

Rico
06-23-2008, 02:42 PM
Well, I can see you wanting to do that, as you've spent the money, BUT if you are pressed for time as the concepts get more difficult when you progress, you might want to cover those more. At some point you might want to find out what she doesn't need to spend as much time on. Just a suggestion.

You can make that decision better in a month from now.

Glad it's working for you.

The only part I have had trouble with getting her to understand is that she has more than once chance to work out the problems. If she misses one, she has a tendency to just go on to the next one. She doesn't have a chance to do it over on her quizzes, but I wish she would realize that she can work those problems out if she misses one. I usually go over any problems she misses with her, and she's pretty good about figuring out that second go at them.

Pressing-On
06-23-2008, 02:45 PM
The only part I have had trouble with getting her to understand is that she has more than once chance to work out the problems. If she misses one, she has a tendency to just go on to the next one. She doesn't have a chance to do it over on her quizzes, but I wish she would realize that she can work those problems out if she misses one. I usually go over any problems she misses with her, and she's pretty good about figuring out that second go at them.
That's probably due to the timing of the courses in the public school. When you are finished it's over. It's hard to retrain.

In homeschool you get to take your time and hone your skills. Another playing field.

And again, it doesn't work for everyone, but obviously, I am in favor of it, if it does work.

Rico
06-23-2008, 03:04 PM
That's probably due to the timing of the courses in the public school. When you are finished it's over. It's hard to retrain.

In homeschool you get to take your time and hone your skills. Another playing field.

And again, it doesn't work for everyone, but obviously, I am in favor of it, if it does work.


Sister, I am very tempted to take the plunge and make her a homeschooled child. I want to give it one more year with the public school before I do something that drastic.

Pressing-On
06-23-2008, 03:18 PM
Sister, I am very tempted to take the plunge and make her a homeschooled child. I want to give it one more year with the public school before I do something that drastic.

Rico,
It can be overwhelming when you begin. Fortunately, as you see with your curriculum choice, things are getting better. The way has been paved. I give tribute to my mother who battled the authorities and news reporters back in the 70's. She is a true pioneer! I honor her courage!

Your daughter is the one that has to make that choice, ultimately. She has to decide how much interaction with other kids that she wants and needs. That is usually the determining factor.

The second thing - you must be organized, have a plan and work the plan. No deviation will be successful. I made a weekly schedule. My children knew what they had to accomplish by Friday. That gave them a week overview. They could work it however they wanted. They just had to have the work done and an X on every subject for that 5 day working period. This has helped them accomplish strides in the workforce.

My brother graduated with a Master's degree, starting out at A&M and finishing at Duke University. His advice - "Stay organized."

When I started out I wanted to give up when I was halfway through it. My husband said, "I just want you to go until May. Give it until then and you can do whatever you want".

When I got over the six month trial period (:D) I was fine. I didn't think I could go the long haul, but I made the 15 years and it was well worth it. God was with me every step of the way. He provided me with things that I prayed for. It was an awesome experience. My children have NO regrets! That is what made it worth the most to me!

Rico
06-23-2008, 03:23 PM
Rico,
It can be overwhelming when you begin. Fortunately, as you see with your curriculum choice, things are getting better. The way has been paved. I give tribute to my mother who battled the authorities and news reporters back in the 70's. She is a true pioneer! I honor her courage!

Your daughter is the one that has to make that choice, ultimately. She has to decide how much interaction with other kids that she wants and needs. That is usually the determining factor.

The second thing - you must be organized, have a plan and work the plan. No deviation will be successful. I made a weekly schedule. My children knew what they had to accomplish by Friday. That gave them a week overview. They could work it however they wanted. They just had to have the work done and an X on every subject for that 5 day working period. This has helped them accomplish strides in the workforce.

My brother graduated with a Master's degree, starting out at A&M and finishing at Duke University. His advice - "Stay organized."

When I started out I wanted to give up when I was halfway through it. My husband said, "I just want you to go until May. Give it until then and you can do whatever you want".

When I got over the six month trial period (:D) I was fine. I didn't think I could go the long haul, but I made the 15 years and it was well worth it. God was with me every step of the way. He provided me with things that I prayed for. It was an awesome experience. My children have NO regrets! That is what made it worth the most to me!

Part of my hesitation is that I don't know without a doubt that I will still be working from home through the end of the school year. I am working on some other sources of income to supplement what I am doing now (don't like all my eggs in one basket). If I can get them set up and running successfully by the time school ends next school year, I would be in a much better position to say I will be able to be here for her during the day.

Pressing-On
06-23-2008, 03:25 PM
Part of my hesitation is that I don't know without a doubt that I will still be working from home through the end of the school year. I am working on some other sources of income to supplement what I am doing now (don't like all my eggs in one basket). If I can get them set up and running successfully by the time school ends next school year, I would be in a much better position to say I will be able to be here for her during the day.

I wouldn't worry about it. Isn't she in Elementary? If so, you don't have to worry about pulling her out until around 7th grade. That's when it starts getting dicey.

Rico
06-23-2008, 03:30 PM
I wouldn't worry about it. Isn't she in Elementary? If so, you don't have to worry about pulling her out until around 7th grade. That's when it starts getting dicey.

Dicey in what way?

Pressing-On
06-23-2008, 03:31 PM
Dicey in what way?

Part of the reason is that they are coming of age. 7th Grade is the beginning of the kicker. Not quite a grown person like High School and not a kid anymore. An in between time. It is very trying - hormones, etc.

Rico
06-23-2008, 03:36 PM
Part of the reason is that they are coming of age. 7th Grade is the beginning of the kicker. Not quite a grown person like High School and not a kid anymore. An in between time. It is very trying - hormones, etc.

I am dealing with that phase with my two oldest children. So far, everything is ok. I make a point of being a nosy Dad and letting these kids know they have no rights as far as I am concerned! :D

Pressing-On
06-23-2008, 03:37 PM
I am dealing with that phase with my two oldest children. So far, everything is ok. I make a point of being a nosy Dad and letting these kids know they have no rights as far as I am concerned! :D

Right!!! Good Dad! One time my daughter told me she was calling Child Protective Services. I said, "Go ahead. At least I know where I will be sleeping tonight. You don't and won't for several years to come."

:toofunny

Rico
06-23-2008, 03:40 PM
Right!!! Good Dad! One time my daughter told me she was calling Child Protective Services. I said, "Go ahead. At least I know where I will be sleeping tonight. You don't and won't for several years to come."

:toofunny

I'd dial the number for them and give them the ride to the office!!! :D

Pressing-On
06-23-2008, 03:41 PM
I'd dial the number for them and give them the ride to the office!!! :D

That's exactly what one of my good friends did. She handed the phone to her daughter - "Here!"

:toofunny :toofunny :toofunny

Rico
06-23-2008, 03:44 PM
That's exactly what one of my good friends did. She handed the phone to her daughter - "Here!"

:toofunny :toofunny :toofunny

My kids know better than to throw that one in my face! In fact, I don't wait for them to do it. I throw it in their face! "You want me to call the Welfare people to come and get you? One less mouth to feed ain't gonna affect my tax refund one bit! I only need two of you to get the max back!!!!" :toofunny

Pressing-On
06-23-2008, 03:48 PM
My kids know better than to throw that one in my face! In fact, I don't wait for them to do it. I throw it in their face! "You want me to call the Welfare people to come and get you? One less mouth to feed ain't gonna affect my tax refund one bit! I only need two of you to get the max back!!!!" :toofunny

:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

OnenessWoman
06-23-2008, 04:32 PM
Rico, I wish that I were in the position to be home again.

I would gladly homeschool her for you...

Rico
06-23-2008, 04:33 PM
Rico, I wish that I were in the position to be home again.

I would gladly homeschool her for you...

Soon as I hit the lottery I will be in a much better position to hire you for the job! :bliss

OnenessWoman
06-23-2008, 04:45 PM
Soon as I hit the lottery I will be in a much better position to hire you for the job! :bliss



What's taking you so long??? :gaga

Rico
06-23-2008, 04:54 PM
What's taking you so long??? :gaga

I keep askin the Lord to reveal them 6 little numbers to me. He's been faithful to reveal them to me, but it's always the day after the drawing! I realize everything has to be in His divine timing and all, but I sure wish He'd do it a little sooner than He has been! :D

Rico
07-10-2008, 02:24 PM
Well, we kinda hit a rocky patch. My daughter started having some issues with the work, so she started getting sneaky about finding ways to get away from her desk. After some counseling she managed to get back on track. I figured out where she got off track and made her redo a few assignments, some of them twice, and now she's gotten over the hump and is back to diggin her school work again. All is well in the Ricoville School District. :)

Pressing-On
07-10-2008, 02:32 PM
Well, we kinda hit a rocky patch. My daughter started having some issues with the work, so she started getting sneaky about finding ways to get away from her desk. After some counseling she managed to get back on track. I figured out where she got off track and made her redo a few assignments, some of them twice, and now she's gotten over the hump and is back to diggin her school work again. All is well in the Ricoville School District. :)

Good report, Rico. You have to stay on them! It's easier to relax at home OR they think they can! ;)

Sherri
07-10-2008, 02:34 PM
I missed some of this, Rico. Why is the poor darlin' doing school in JULY?

Rico
07-10-2008, 02:38 PM
I missed some of this, Rico. Why is the poor darlin' doing school in JULY?

Cause she got a big fat D in math as her final grade. The problems with math have been building over the last couple of years, so it was time for action or risk her having to repeat a grade. I refuse to raise a child who does poorly in school. Around here you either live up to your potential in school or dad makes you live up to your potential in school. There's three ways of doing things around these parts; the right way, the wrong way, and Dad's way. :D (Dad's way is not always as hard as that may appear.)

Sherri
07-10-2008, 02:40 PM
Cause she got a big fat D in math as her final grade. The problems with math have been building over the last couple of years, so it was time for action or risk her having to repeat a grade. I refuse to raise a child who does poorly in school. Around here you either live up to your potential in school or dad makes you live up to your potential in school. There's three ways of doing things around these parts; the right way, the wrong way, and Dad's way. :D (Dad's way is not always as hard as that may appear.)I hired a math tutor for Zac one summer; that cured him for good! It's not that he couldn't learn Algebra; he just didn't want to. After we had this nerdy college student coming twice a week for a while, he amazingly cracked down and learned it really quick so we wouldn't have to have her come back anymore!

Rico
07-10-2008, 02:51 PM
I hired a math tutor for Zac one summer; that cured him for good! It's not that he couldn't learn Algebra; he just didn't want to. After we had this nerdy college student coming twice a week for a while, he amazingly cracked down and learned it really quick so we wouldn't have to have her come back anymore!

If she had been a little cutie he probably would have faked learning anything, just so she would come back! Boys are like that, ya know. :D

Sherri
07-10-2008, 02:52 PM
If she had been a little cutie he probably would have faked learning anything, just so she would come back! Boys are like that, ya know. :D
Yeah, she was definitely a math nerd, and not one he wanted to drool over.