Judge Not

[Sister Alvear]

Today at lunch our sons were talking about this subject. I was blessed to hear them talking with such compassion about other people.
I thought as they were talking, I hope I never become hard and unapproachable...
It made me think about our forum. May the Lord help us all to have our words seasoned with salt.

[Sherri]

Amen, Sis. I am a little blown away by some of the stuff I've read lately. But I'm thankful for the group of friends that I have on here that sincerely love God and love people, even if we don't all think just alike.

[Sister Alvear]

Strange Jesus never told us how we would know someone else is a christian other than the sign of love...by this Jesus said ALL will know ye are my disciples.
It is a forgotten sign among many.
As long as we are hurting and destroying one another the devil doesn´t even worry...

The devil´s job is to kill, steal and destroy...If we cannot build up then it is best to walk away.

[Margies3]

Sis A, you are one of the finest examples I have ever "met" of someone who knows how to love and let God do the judging. Oh that more of us could be more like you.

[Sister Alvear]

Well, it took me a long time to learn that God did not need my help to judge!

[Sister Alvear]

Lesson, well learned...

[Sister Alvear]

We humans are not near as important as we would like to think we are!

[Margies3]

We humans are not near as important as we would like to think we are!

Very true. And we're not nearly as perfect as we'd like to think we are either.

Sometimes we think that WE are so perfect that no one else could begin to measure up to us. We forget that they don't need to measure up to us. They only to need to measure up to God's standards - which are much more saturated with love than ours ever are.

[Bro-Larry]

Sister Alvear, you have such a sweet spirit. "By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples; if ye have love one to another." It doesn't say "just to church folk".

[Sister Alvear]

If I don´t make the city I sure don´t want it to be because I did not love...

[stmatthew]

Sis Alvear, is there ever a time to judge? Can we not judge the preaching of a preacher according to scripture without judging the person?

Was Paul judging when he stated that Demas loved the present world, and had forsaken him?

Sometimes when something that is not from God is presented as God, a Christian must stand up and call false doctrine, false doctrine. Is this judging?

[Sister Alvear]

Matthew, I believe there is a time to judge. The Bible says there is a time for all things however even when we judge we must manifest the fruits of the spirit and love. Love does not mean we agree with everything but we can disagree in the right spirit.

[Sister Alvear]

I often think of this passage: "Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge."

"There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who
are you to judge another?"
- Ja 4:11-12

[Sister Alvear]

All our judgments must be guided by righteous standards. Only God, who knows each individual's heart, can make final judgments of individuals.

[Rhoni]

Matthew, I believe there is a time to judge. The Bible says there is a time for all things however even when we judge we must manifest the fruits of the spirit and love. Love does not mean we agree with everything but we can disagree in the right spirit.

Sis. Alvear, just how is that done? I had a UPCI minister recently ask me out on a date. He asked me what church that I attended. He said, "I hear your Pastor's wife cuts her hair, wears pants, and makeup." To which I said, "Absolutely and so do I." To which he asked, "All three?" To which I replied, "Yes."

Just made me to know that I have been there, done that, and never want to go back; the tee-shirt does not fit any longer. That attitude, that spirit, and where is the love..I want to know. Does that love really exist or is it just a fantasy?

Just curious, Rhoni

[Cindy]

Sis. Alvear, just how is that done? I had a UPCI minister recently ask me out on a date. He asked me what church that I attended. He said, "I hear your Pastor's wife cuts her hair, wears pants, and makeup." To which I said, "Absolutely and so do I." To which he asked, "All three?" To which I replied, "Yes."

Just made me to know that I have been there, done that, and never want to go back; the tee-shirt does not fit any longer. That attitude, that spirit, and where is the love..I want to know. Does that love really exist or is it just a fantasy?

Just curious, Rhoni

Well maybe if you had said only one or two huh?............:tic

[Sister Alvear]

Often I read this chapter:

Therefore be merciful,
even as your Father is also merciful.
Don't judge,
and you won't be judged.
Don't condemn,
and you won't be condemned.
Set free,
and you will be set free.
"Give, and it will be given to you: good measure, pressed down, shaken together, and running over, will be given to you. For with the same measure you measure it will be measured back to you."
He spoke a parable to them. "Can the blind guide the blind? Won't they both fall into a pit? A disciple is not above his teacher, but everyone when he is fully trained will be like his teacher. Why do you see the speck of chaff that is in your brother's eye, but don't consider the beam that is in your own eye? Or how can you tell your brother, 'Brother, let me remove the speck of chaff that is in your eye,' when you yourself don't see the beam that is in your own eye? You hypocrite! First remove the beam from your own eye, and then you can see clearly to remove the speck of chaff that is in your brother's eye.

Luke 6:37-42

[Sister Alvear]

Sis. Alvear, just how is that done? I had a UPCI minister recently ask me out on a date. He asked me what church that I attended. He said, "I hear your Pastor's wife cuts her hair, wears pants, and makeup." To which I said, "Absolutely and so do I." To which he asked, "All three?" To which I replied, "Yes."

Just made me to know that I have been there, done that, and never want to go back; the tee-shirt does not fit any longer. That attitude, that spirit, and where is the love..I want to know. Does that love really exist or is it just a fantasy?

Just curious, Rhoni


Rhoni, love does really exist but we have to work at it. It is so easy to get in the judgement mode and we really do not realize it. That is why we must seach our heart and our motives.
I think of the words of the writer that said if we measure ourselves by ourselves we are not wise.
Romans 2:1 says,

Therefore you are without excuse, every man of you who passes judgment, for in that you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

When people come to me telling me someone´s shoutcomings ( or what they judge to be shortcomings) I cringe for generally they are condemning their ownself...

A French proverb states, "To know all is to forgive all." This saying is somewhat similar to the more commonly known, "There but for the grace of God go I."

[Sister Alvear]

If I err let it be on the side of mercy...

[RevDWW]

1Co 13:2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

If I am "Pentecostal" to the max but do exhibit His love I am nothing, and one day will hear "depart from me I never knew you".................

[RevDWW]

If I err let it be on the side of mercy...

AMEN!!!!!!

[Sister Alvear]

and that does not mean I condone sin for those that know me KNOW I do not however we must be very careful what we say and how we say it...
Yes, I do want to love what God loves and hate what He hates...

Am I a paradox?

[Barb]

Amen, Sis. I am a little blown away by some of the stuff I've read lately. But I'm thankful for the group of friends that I have on here that sincerely love God and love people, even if we don't all think just alike.

Amen, Sistergirl!! How boring would that be if we all thought just alike?! I have 6 younger brothers...all saved and sanctified but one, and we sure don't think alike.

[stmatthew]

and that does not mean I condone sin for those that know me KNOW I do not however we must be very careful what we say and how we say it...
Yes, I do want to love what God loves and hate what He hates...

Am I a paradox?

And this, to me, is the crux of the matter. Some would believe that if you even mention their sin that you are judging them. But can we really say we love someone and yet allow them to continue in sin?

[Broken]

And this, to me, is the crux of the matter. Some would believe that if you even mention their sin that you are judging them. But can we really say we love someone and yet allow them to continue in sin?


I am anxious to see the response to this question~

[Barb]

If I err let it be on the side of mercy...

Amen, Mother!! This thread lets me know that God is dealing with us all on the same thing. This morning I wrote something and was going to finish it and start a thread...rather than do that, I'll just drop my thoughts here if it's okay...


It is the arrogance of man which makes us think that we can know the heart of another. Oh, we can know if they open their mouth and say something they shouldn't. And we can know if their actions are less than honorable.

But without words or deeds, who can really know?! I'm not talking about the gift of suspicion...no, I mean, how can we know for sure?!

Truth is, friends, we can't.

Some folks that we think sit on the right hand of the Father may in fact be as far from holy as one can get. Others we freely cast into the abyss because they ruffle our little opinons or don't line up with our convictions may in fact be people after God's own heart.

Who knows the heart of man?!

Not I...the only heart I can be sure about is mine, and trust me, I know it well. I know when my reaction to an action crosses a line. I know when my heart may be lingering too close to a snake pit...I know me.

I don't know you. I can't give an account to the Master for what you think or say or do. It is impossible. The only heart I can guard is my own. The only heart I have to answer for is my own.

And so, if I don't know your heart, how dare I judge it?! What gives me the right?! When did God fall from His throne?!

May heaven free me from the sin of assumption!!

[Barb]

And this, to me, is the crux of the matter. Some would believe that if you even mention their sin that you are judging them. But can we really say we love someone and yet allow them to continue in sin?

I don't think so, Matt...there is a way of displaying love and reproving without condemning.

[Sister Alvear]

And this, to me, is the crux of the matter. Some would believe that if you even mention their sin that you are judging them. But can we really say we love someone and yet allow them to continue in sin?


Mentioning sin is not judging them.
While we cannot force people to quit sinning we can love the sinner but not love the sin...

I will give you a very close to me example...My daughter in law´s mother came to live in our area. She really fled from Sao Paulo. She was shacked up with a dope leader. After we took the gospel to her she decided to flee in every sense of the word.
She did not raise my daughter in law however she is her mother. Sin lead her down a horrible road...
When she came she had many bad habits...
After many months she still smoked and did things she should not do. Many of our people wanted me to kick her out. She did not live in my house but a little house that belongs to the church. She did several things that brought much shame to us...
Through all these months I never lost hope that God could change her. Only a couple months back she quit smoking and is doing so good...
She never doubted my sincere love for her soul and in the end after a long hard struggle love won out...
Were there times I felt like kicking her out? Yes, there were for she did horrible things...yet...I reminded myself over and over again where she came from...I have no earthly idea what it would be like to be coming from such a life…
Today she sang with the redeemed at the front of the church…I am glad love and mercy won out.
I never condoned her sin...but she knew I was praying for her.

[Sister Alvear]

As a missionary and a leader I have had to make hard decisions...but I try to make them in the fear of God and not be swayed by man´s opinion and pressure.

[Sister Alvear]

Not very long ago I sat down with some USA visitors and told them it would be best for them not to visit our church...I have more backbone than you think...I had to do that in the best interest of the church. However I did it in love and was nice about it.

[Sister Alvear]

The word “judge” in its various forms (judgeth, judging, judgment, judges, etc) is found over 700 times in God’s word. One whole book of the Bible is titled “Judges” for it was written at a time when God raised up judges to lead His people.

[Sister Alvear]

this is the other side of the coin:
Paul said in I Corinthians 1:10 to “. . . be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.” I Corinthians 2:15 Paul says, “But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.”

[Sister Alvear]

“Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints? Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters? Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life? If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church. I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?” (I Cor. 6:1-5)

[Sister Alvear]

John 7:24 Jesus tells us to judge RIGHTEOUS judgment.
So I hope you can see there is balance...

[Sister Alvear]

Corinthians 11:30-31: “For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep. For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.”

That is probably one of the hardest things to do...judge ourselves...

[RevDWW]

Most often when church folks judge others because of thier life style they are in the process of condemning them. Trying to help someone see the error of their ways does not have to be done in a spirit of condemnation. We can speak the truth in love and let the Spirit of Love bring conviction.

[Scott Hutchinson]

When the bible says judge not lest you be judged it means don't be harder in judging other folks than you are when judging ourselves.
But before we can judge others we need to make sure our act is clean.
The standard of judgement we use on others is the way we will be judged.

[jaxfam6]

We humans are not near as important as we would like to think we are!

I am so dissappointed. You have ruined my day. Here I thought I was an almighty important person.

We were at friends yesterday evening, about 12 adults, and we were talking about this very thing. I am so glad, as I am sure others are too, that God did not ask me to help him decide who was going to make and who wasn't. I am not really one that likes to many people sometimes. Generally speaking I give everyone the benfit of the doubt but I am also skeptical by nature. SOOOO many wouldn't make it if it were up to me. Including myself probably.

[jaxfam6]

Most often when church folks judge others because of thier life style they are in the process of condemning them. Trying to help someone see the error of their ways does not have to be done in a spirit of condemnation. We can speak the truth in love and let the Spirit of Love bring conviction.

That is if what they are doing is wrong. To many decide to tell folks what is wrong ACCORDING TO THEMSELVES not according to the Word of God.

[Rhoni]

Rhoni, love does really exist but we have to work at it. It is so easy to get in the judgement mode and we really do not realize it. That is why we must seach our heart and our motives.
I think of the words of the writer that said if we measure ourselves by ourselves we are not wise.
Romans 2:1 says,

Therefore you are without excuse, every man of you who passes judgment, for in that you judge another, you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things.

When people come to me telling me someone´s shoutcomings ( or what they judge to be shortcomings) I cringe for generally they are condemning their ownself...

A French proverb states, "To know all is to forgive all." This saying is somewhat similar to the more commonly known, "There but for the grace of God go I."

Sis Alvear,
This is so true. One thing I have learned through the years is that we are all leveled at the foot of the cross. I have also found that the things we judge or accuse others of will come back to bite us one day.

To err on the side of mercy is the only way to go even if proven wrong. The Bible tells us...to the pure all things are pure. Actually Sis. Falla, and yourself remind me of this scripture. You both know things, and see things, through your lifetime of service in the church.. but she always have a good word to say and always gives the positive point of view.

For some reason lately; I have only seen the negative and look for the fallible human nature to manifest itself in others and situations. I am praying for a renewing of my mind so I can get the 'pureness' back.

This is a great/positive thread...thank-you.

Love & Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Most often when church folks judge others because of thier life style they are in the process of condemning them. Trying to help someone see the error of their ways does not have to be done in a spirit of condemnation. We can speak the truth in love and let the Spirit of Love bring conviction.

Rev.DWW,

This is good but I would like to add something here..
Sometimes, no words are best. God doesn't need the help that some give. I am not sure that I see any scripture for pointing out another's 'faults'. We do not have that right. We need to judge ourselves and hold our peace.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Sister Alvear]

Sometimes a hug says what a thousand words cannot say...

[Sister Alvear]

yes, very good, Barb. I always enjoy your posts.

[pelathais]

The context says, "Judge not lest ye be judged..." Since I'm better than everybody else, I don't mind judging and being judged! http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[Sister Alvear]

:bliss:.........happydance..........

[Sister Alvear]

I love you folks...
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/missionarylady/MichaeleMarcela014.jpg

[Rhoni]

I love you folks...
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/missionarylady/MichaeleMarcela014.jpg

I love that picture!:bliss

[Sister Alvear]

that was in service yesterday!

[Joelel]

Amen, Sis. I am a little blown away by some of the stuff I've read lately. But I'm thankful for the group of friends that I have on here that sincerely love God and love people, even if we don't all think just alike.

We all should be speaking the same if we all are taught of the Spirit of God.If we truly love people we will thell them truth with all love.Truth saves (delivers) us.

(NOTE CONTINUE) John8:31. Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed;32. And ye shall know the truth (word) , and the truth shall make you free.



(NOTE SAVED) 1Cor.015:001 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel (truth) which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 015:002By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.



(NOTE SAVED) 1 Tim.004:016Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; (teachings,word,Truth) continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

The more truth we have the more we are saved,delivered.

[Joelel]

Some kind of judging we are aloud to do and some kind we are not.

We are not to render evil for evil


Math.7:1: Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2: For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3: And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4: Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5: Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.


We are to judge (SAY WHAT IS RIGHT OR WRONG).

1 Cor.5:


1: It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.
2: And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.
3: For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed,
4: In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
5: To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.
6: Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7: Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:
8: Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
9: I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:
10: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.
11: But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.
12: For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?
13: But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

6:1: Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?
2: Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
3: Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?
4: If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.
5: I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?



Math.18:15: Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.
16: But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.
17: And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.
18: Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
19: Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.
20: For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.
21: Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?
22: Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven

[Rhoni]

Joelel,
This is talking about privately going to a brother or sister if they are in sin or getting dangerously close. In private...not on a forum or in front of other church members. When the SIN is causing a problem in the church and they won't hear you and you take another with you to witness and also speak in love and they again refuse...then and only then does it become an issue for the whole assembly.

It is NOT talking about differences of opinion, or what you consider to be a flaw in their personality.

The church has not practiced this in decades because most Pastors are too afraid to confront others, even in private. They let issues go until it destroys the church. This is my opinion of course and you may disagree but it is what I have seen and experienced.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Sister Alvear]

We must be very careful for God not only knows how many souls we have won He also knows how many we have destroyed.

[Barb]

Good points Sis Barb.

Our Sunday School lesson was about judging.

Awesome lesson.

yes, very good, Barb. I always enjoy your posts.

Bless you both. It really was something when I knew how God had been dealing with me earlier in the day, only to come home late in the evening and see the thread and posts here...God is a wonder.

[Joelel]

Joelel,
This is talking about privately going to a brother or sister if they are in sin or getting dangerously close. In private...not on a forum or in front of other church members. When the SIN is causing a problem in the church and they won't hear you and you take another with you to witness and also speak in love and they again refuse...then and only then does it become an issue for the whole assembly.

It is NOT talking about differences of opinion, or what you consider to be a flaw in their personality.

The church has not practiced this in decades because most Pastors are too afraid to confront others, even in private. They let issues go until it destroys the church. This is my opinion of course and you may disagree but it is what I have seen and experienced.

Blessings, Rhoni

You are very much right,the one scripture teaches us if a brother sins against us what we are to do in what order.It should be practiced in the church today.The other two scripture,one is about we are not to render evil for evil and the other is what we are to do with them who sin and will not repent.