Ex-Bush Spokesman: Propaganda Used to Push War

[Grasshopper]

Ex-Bush spokesman: President used 'propaganda' to push war

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The spokesman who defended President Bush's policies through Hurricane Katrina and the early years of the Iraq war is now blasting his former employers, saying the Bush administration became mired in propaganda and political spin and at times played loose with the truth.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/27/mcclellan.book/index.html

Duh.

[OP_Carl]

Duh.

Somebody on CNN is criticizing the Bush administration!

:uhoh
:jaw
:faint
:swoon
:sad

Goodness gracious, Chris, we haven't heard anything like this in what? 15 minutes?

:blah:blah
:bigbaby
:violin
:beatdeadhorse
:snapout





:D

:winkgrin

[Grasshopper]

lol

[crakjak]

Duh.

Yes, another politico has sold himself for a book deal $$$$$$, the policy of personal destruction continues.

[RevBuddy]

Wait!?!?!! Someone has written a book...a real book...about their days in the White House?!?!?!?!

And it's completely different from the statements and positions they took while actually in their White House job?!?!?!?

Amazing!?!?! This could not have possible happened before!?!?!? A one-of-a-kind event, no doubt!?!?!?!?!

[A_PoMo]

Of course we all know that what is said in public is always exactly what is said behind closed doors and that our fearless leaders are above trickery and sculldoggery and (gasp) lying to the public and manipulating facts and the media in order to further their hidden agendas. Can anyone say "Vietnam" and "Iran/Contra" and "Gulf War"? :tic

[MissBrattified]

LOL!!! I wonder why these whistle blowers are never held accountable for not speaking up when it really mattered? It's really easy to be a brave boy when you no longer risk losing your job mid-shift.

I tend to admire the folks who speak up when they have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

[DividedThigh]

well said miss b, there silence in the crisis, devalues there opinion in my house, dt

[Pressing-On]

LOL!!! I wonder why these whistle blowers are never held accountable for not speaking up when it really mattered? It's really easy to be a brave boy when you no longer risk losing your job mid-shift.

I tend to admire the folks who speak up when they have nothing to gain and everything to lose.
I believe they are in a position where it is not ethical or it's an issue of loyalty, for the time, to speak.

It isn't much different than the "non-compete" agreements I've had to sign in business practice.

[Grasshopper]

LOL!!! I wonder why these whistle blowers are never held accountable for not speaking up when it really mattered? It's really easy to be a brave boy when you no longer risk losing your job mid-shift.

I tend to admire the folks who speak up when they have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

When it directly effects their paycheck people typically keep quiet. When they are left to think about it and mull it over in their minds and they feel safe they come out.

[Grasshopper]

Notice no one here appears as concerned with the implications regarding the war and this administration as they are about finding fault with the messenger. Again...Bush get's a free pass by religious conservatives. What if this is true?

[Cindy]

Nah GH, it's just the same old, same old. And it's not like anyone hasn't ever said this before. True or not his saying this now is greed alone. Money, money, money. And there is plenty of fault to be found with any administration. Same results, different reasons.

[Cindy]

And I of course am going to go to Wal-Mart and buy this book...............NOT!!

[Grasshopper]

Nah GH, it's just the same old, same old. And it's not like anyone hasn't ever said this before. True or not his saying this now is greed alone. Money, money, money. And there is plenty of fault to be found with any administration. Same results, different reasons.

So even if this guy's telling the truth the Bush Administration should get a free pass on this? C'mon...this is far more corrupt than President Clinton trying to cover up an affair.

[Cindy]

So even if this guy's telling the truth the Bush Administration get a free pass on this? C'mon...this is far more corrupt than President Clinton trying to cover up an affair.

Nope, not what I am saying at all. This book will probably not change anyone's mind about the administration. And another thing is why publish this now? Who is he hoping offers him a job?

[Grasshopper]

Nope, not what I am saying at all. This book will probably not change anyone's mind about the administration. And another thing is why publish this now? Who is he hoping offers him a job?

I think it has more to do with revealing the facts behind the war so that the people have more information in the coming election. Do we essentially keep the current machine and course of action or do we change direction?

Of course, the press secretary was given warm words and praise when leaving and all was nice and friendly. Now this guy is going to be painted as disgruntled. It's like when a controlling pastor looses control of a saint who decides to speak up about something not right...suddenly that saint is just "not himself".

Republicans will vote Republican regardless of the deception and lies of the Bush Administration...and those voting Democratic already know the war was based on lies and fabrications. This will only effect undecideds and independents.

[crakjak]

I think it has more to do with revealing the facts behind the war so that the people have more information in the coming election. Do we essentially keep the current machine and course of action or do we change direction?

Of course, the press secretary was given warm words and praise when leaving and all was nice and friendly. Now this guy is going to be painted as disgruntled. It's like when a controlling pastor looses control of a saint who decides to speak up about something not right...suddenly that saint is just "not himself".

Republicans will vote Republican regardless of the deception and lies of the Bush Administration...and those voting Democratic already know the war was based on lies and fabrications. This will only effect undecideds and independents.


The media has so brainwashed the public that we all believe this now??? Truth no longer has any weigh against the third column.

[scotty]

Noooo..republicans ( myself anyway ) will vote republican because thats the way we believe. You know , some here feel UPC is not the way to go, and some do.....I feel the conservative way is the way I prefer to go..All of your arguments are plausable at best....easily argued from both sides with neither side having the ability to win....I could disprove most of what you spew on here, and you may could do the same with me..but when it comes down to us having no more post and rebuttles it simply comes down to what we (individually) believe we want for government...its our opinion...nothing more, nothing less......Bush has done no worse job than carter, clinton or anyone else for that matter. Bush didn't ask for this, he responded in a manner he felt best....

its funny we being full of the Holy Ghost and living for God will be first to proclaim we are not perfect yet we expect a man with more pressure than we will ever be faced with to be perfect.


BTW...they just announced that Scott admitted his editor re wrote much of the book he released...imagine that

[Grasshopper]

The media has so brainwashed the public that we all believe this now??? Truth no longer has any weigh against the third column.

Bro notice something...you're not able to even conceive that the Bush Administration perpetrated a war of choice based on false pretenses. When one understands how far back plans to invade Iraq go (the first Bush Presidency) it becomes obvious that this was the brainchild of Paul Wolfowitz. What if Scott is telling the truth? I mean...if he were...what would you expect the White House and the Administration to say?

[Grasshopper]

Noooo..republicans ( myself anyway ) will vote republican because thats the way we believe. You know , some here feel UPC is not the way to go, and some do.....I feel the conservative way is the way I prefer to go..All of your arguments are plausable at best....easily argued from both sides with neither side having the ability to win....I could disprove most of what you spew on here, and you may could do the same with me..but when it comes down to us having no more post and rebuttles it simply comes down to what we (individually) believe we want for government...its our opinion...nothing more, nothing less......Bush has done no worse job than carter, clinton or anyone else for that matter. Bush didn't ask for this, he responded in a manner he felt best....

its funny we being full of the Holy Ghost and living for God will be first to proclaim we are not perfect yet we expect a man with more pressure than we will ever be faced with to be perfect.


BTW...they just announced that Scott admitted his editor re wrote much of the book he released...imagine that

I understand what you're saying and you're right. But when it comes to President Bush....something went wrong shortly after 9/11 and suddenly we were on a very dark road. My wife and I both expressed how things just felt strange. I don't trust Bush. I firmly believe that when Bush is out of power people will come out of the woodwork to tell the truth about this Presidency, people you'll be shocked to hear say such things. And I think it will demonstrate how blind and manipulated so many of us have been by the political "conservatives" (who are really just neo-fascists pretending to be conservatives).

When someone claims to be Pro-Life and Anti-Gay marriage we zone out and accept them without hesitation. Bro...I fear those are just buttons they push to mobilize the robots if you know what I mean.

[crakjak]

Bro notice something...you're not able to even conceive that the Bush Administration perpetrated a war of choice based on false pretenses. When one understands how far back plans to invade Iraq go (the first Bush Presidency) it becomes obvious that this was the brainchild of Paul Wolfowitz. What if Scott is telling the truth? I mean...if he were...what would you expect the White House and the Administration to say?

Everyone forgets that it was the official policy of the US for regime change in Iraq for 15 years prior to the W administration. Saddam defied the whole world community including the toothless UN, America was attacked and the source of that attack was squarely in the Mideast. History will credit the Bush administration with stopping the rise of radical Islam, the Democrats will no more pull out of Iraq abruptly than a goose, it is all politics.

President Bush has been so demonized by the press, the Democrats and wimpy Republicans that anyone who defends him is made to look the fool. I appreciate a man that makes hard decisions and very, very slow changes him mind. A man that can stand against the onslaught on that has been brought against W would break most men, few could govern at all with such goofiness being puked all over the airwaves and internet.

Oh, btw we haven't been attacked in the homeland since 9/11, Bush hasn't done too badly on the most important of his task.

[Grasshopper]

Everyone forgets that it was the official policy of the US for regime change in Iraq for 15 years prior to the W administration. Saddam defied the whole world community including the toothless UN, America was attacked and the source of that attack was squarely in the Mideast. History will credit the Bush administration with stopping the rise of radical Islam, the Democrats will no more pull out of Iraq abruptly than a goose, it is all politics.

President Bush has been so demonized by the press, the Democrats and wimpy Republicans that anyone who defends him is made to look the fool. I appreciate a man that makes hard decisions and very, very slow changes him mind. A man that can stand against the onslaught on that has been brought against W would break most men, few could govern at all with such goofiness being puked all over the airwaves and internet.

I believe the war to uproot the Taliban and al Queda was necessary. I don't think Iraq was based on the things I've studied. Wolfowitz was pushing to invade Iraq under the first Bush Presidency and then H. W. Bush rebuked him for being to radical and ordered then Secretary of Defense, Dick Cheney to re-write the policy papers. I think that our military action in Afghanistan was absolutely called for...however, I'm convinced that Iraq was pushed on us by men with an agenda. While I could be wrong...I firmly believe that once Bush is gone men will come out of the woodwork about how deceptive, secretive, and corrupt this regime has been. And I feel these men will be prominent Republicans who are currently quiet because it would be political suicide to speak out right now.

We'll have to revisit this in a few years. I'm convinced you'll look back at your position here and be amazed that you're lock step behind President Bush.

And bro...radical Islam is bigger right now than it was prior to Bush's invasion of Iraq. As a matter of fact this Administration's policies have united various Islamic factions that used to be at odds in addition to having motivated widespread sympathy and devotion to radical Islam throughout the Middle East and Asia.

[Cindy]

I think it has more to do with revealing the facts behind the war so that the people have more information in the coming election. Do we essentially keep the current machine and course of action or do we change direction?

Of course, the press secretary was given warm words and praise when leaving and all was nice and friendly. Now this guy is going to be painted as disgruntled. It's like when a controlling pastor looses control of a saint who decides to speak up about something not right...suddenly that saint is just "not himself".

Republicans will vote Republican regardless of the deception and lies of the Bush Administration...and those voting Democratic already know the war was based on lies and fabrications. This will only effect undecideds and independents.

Well I disagree with your first paragraph. I agree somewhat with your second paragraph. As for the third, Democrats have lied but I guess that's different since it wasn't about a war, whatever. A liar is a liar, the man writing the book is a liar then, as he was a part of this lie based war(If this is true). So, yeah he does not have any credibility with intelligent people. But I guess that leaves the Democrats out.

[Grasshopper]

Well I disagree with your first paragraph. I agree somewhat with your second paragraph. As for the third, Democrats have lied but I guess that's different since it wasn't about a war, whatever. A liar is a liar, the man writing the book is a liar then, as he was a part of this lie based war(If this is true). So, yeah he does not have any credibility with intelligent people. But I guess that leaves the Democrats out.

It's true that a liar is a liar. And all politicians lie. However, I think a lie about an affair doesn't compare to a series of lies that propels a nation into an unnecessary war where thousands of Americans die and over 84,000 Iraqi civilians loose their lives. Not to mention the diplomatic impact of the complete loss of U.S. creditability throughout the world and the creation of unprecedented anti-Americanism that is igniting a virtual "revival" of radical Islam throughout the Middle East and Asia.

Yes...a liar is a liar...but some lies are far worse than others. Let's face it...we're so misguided... we're more upset about a President having a mistress than we are that tens of thousands of civilians have been blown to shreds, over false claims and shaded intelligence. In my mind they don't compare.

[Cindy]

It's true that a liar is a liar. And all politicians lie. However, I think a lie about an affair doesn't compare to a series of lies that propels a nation into an unnecessary war where thousands of Americans die and over 84,000 Iraqi civilians loose their lives. Not to mention the diplomatic impact of the complete loss of U.S. creditability throughout the world and the creation of unprecedented anti-Americanism that is igniting a virtual "revival" of radical Islam throughout the Middle East and Asia.

Yes...a liar is a liar...but some lies are far worse than others. Let's face it...we're so misguided... we're more upset about a President having a mistress than we are that tens of thousands of civilians have been blown to shreds, over false claims and shaded intelligence. In my mind they don't compare.

Nope, we can pick and choose our thoughts about life GH. I do care about anyone dying for any country. blah, blah, blah, on U S credibility with the world. We did not ignite radical islam in the last few years, it had started long before that. You cannot blame that on any U S president a Bush or not. You do realize that Mr. Bush is an American right? He has to live here too, do you really think that he is trying to destroy the country he lives in, or that his wife and children live in? Think about it.

[Pressing-On]

Nope, we can pick and choose our thoughts about life GH. I do care about anyone dying for any country. blah, blah, blah, on U S credibility with the world. We did not ignite radical islam in the last few years, it had started long before that. You cannot blame that on any U S president a Bush or not. You do realize that Mr. Bush is an American right? He has to live here too, do you really think that he is trying to destroy the country he lives in, or that his wife and children live in? Think about it.
I agree and especially when we were getting the same intelligence information from other country's leaders.

I just wonder what Carolyn thinks of her son's book? lol Lord, she is one loud-mouthed woman. :killinme

[Cindy]

I agree and especially when we were getting the same intelligence information from other countries leaders.

I just wonder what Carolyn thinks of her son's book? lol Lord, she is one loud-mouthed woman. :killinme

:toofunny

Hey check out my thread woman.

[Pressing-On]

:toofunny

Hey check out my thread woman.

Just logging in a bit. I'll go see what you did this time!!! :killinme

[Cindy]

GH, propaganda has been used to push wars before. This is nothing new.

[Grasshopper]

Nope, we can pick and choose our thoughts about life GH. I do care about anyone dying for any country. blah, blah, blah, on U S credibility with the world. We did not ignite radical islam in the last few years, it had started long before that. You cannot blame that on any U S president a Bush or not. You do realize that Mr. Bush is an American right? He has to live here too, do you really think that he is trying to destroy the country he lives in, or that his wife and children live in? Think about it.

I think it's important that we maintain a high degree of creditability. For example let's say Iran gets nukes secretly and we approach the international community about it....will they trust us or will they grill us, wasting precious time? It's like the little boy who cried wolf. I think the majority of nations will second guess us now. And I see that as an issue.

I didn't say we "started" radical Islam. I'm saying that we have ignited it. There are record numbers of Muslims joining radical Islamic groups and many groups who were once at odds are uniting. Some of these groups, like Hamas, have become popular enough with the local Arab peoples that they have won elections to official offices. Even Pakistan's relatively moderate government is facing a rising tide of Anti-American political forces that hold radical Islamic tenants. When the Arab world saw us preemptively invade one of their countries on false pretenses...it ignited a groundswell of Anti-Americanism.

Very bad for us. Things are actually worse now because of Iraq. We're not safer...it's never been more dangerous.

[Cindy]

I think it's important that we maintain a high degree of creditability. For example let's say Iran gets nukes secretly and we approach the international community about it....will they trust us or will they grill us, wasting precious time? It's like the little boy who cried wolf. I think the majority of nations will second guess us now. And I see that as an issue.

I didn't say we "started" radical Islam. I'm saying that we have ignited it. There are record numbers of Muslims joining radical Islamic groups and many groups who were once at odds are uniting. Some of these groups, like Hamas, have become popular enough with the local Arab peoples that they have won elections to official offices. Even Pakistan's relatively moderate government is facing a rising tide of Anti-American political forces that hold radical Islamic tenants. When the Arab world saw us preemptively invade one of their countries on false pretenses...it ignited a groundswell of Anti-Americanism.

Very bad for us. Things are actually worse now because of Iraq. We're not safer...it's never been more dangerous.

And I believe what you just posted is propaganda, being pushed by whom I don't know. I don't find it credible.

[crakjak]

I believe the war to uproot the Taliban and al Queda was necessary. I don't think Iraq was based on the things I've studied. Wolfowitz was pushing to invade Iraq under the first Bush Presidency and then H. W. Bush rebuked him for being to radical and ordered then Secretary of Defense, Dick Cheney to re-write the policy papers. I think that our military action in Afghanistan was absolutely called for...however, I'm convinced that Iraq was pushed on us by men with an agenda. While I could be wrong...I firmly believe that once Bush is gone men will come out of the woodwork about how deceptive, secretive, and corrupt this regime has been. And I feel these men will be prominent Republicans who are currently quiet because it would be political suicide to speak out right now.

We'll have to revisit this in a few years. I'm convinced you'll look back at your position here and be amazed that you're lock step behind President Bush.

And bro...radical Islam is bigger right now than it was prior to Bush's invasion of Iraq. As a matter of fact this Administration's policies have united various Islamic factions that used to be at odds in addition to having motivated widespread sympathy and devotion to radical Islam throughout the Middle East and Asia.

We will just have to see how this plays out. Personally, I was quite feed up with being attacked by these fanatics, which began at least as early as the Reagan Administration. Sure, the opposition has come out of the woodwork, but we are not seeing attacks such as the Cole, the Marine barracks, 1993 WTC, or 9/11, so again I am grateful for Bush's leadership in protecting the homeland and our assets around the world. We need statesmen and what we have are politicians, why, because statesmen cannot be elected due to the confusion and deceit by the media's constant drumbeat against anyone that would try to lead in a competent manner.

[Grasshopper]

We will just have to see how this plays out. Personally, I was quite feed up with being attacked by these fanatics, which began at least as early as the Reagan Administration. Sure, the opposition has come out of the woodwork, but we are not seeing attacks such as the Cole, the Marine barracks, 1993 WTC, or 9/11, so again I am grateful for Bush's leadership in protecting the homeland and our assets around the world. We need statesmen and what we have are politicians, why, because statesmen cannot be elected due to the confusion and deceit by the media's constant drumbeat against anyone that would try to lead in a competent manner.

Bro...our soldiers are often attacked and bombs are set off quite a bit in Iraq. I strongly recommend you go out to some international news sites and review how often we're attacked. And Nigeria and other African nations where we get a significant amount of our oil has seen far more attacks on local oil operations by terrorists. Things are far hotter now than they were when the Cole was bombed. Where are you getting your info?

[Grasshopper]

And I believe what you just posted is propaganda, being pushed by whom I don't know. I don't find it credible.

Of course you don't. :toofunny

To me, you sound like you're full of propaganda and blind loyalty to this Administration. lol

Oh well...time will tell...time will tell. I assure you, strong Republicans are going to come forward with the truth when Bush is gone and it's politically safe to do so. You'll be left wondering why you didn't see what I'm trying to tell you.

[Pressing-On]

To me, you sound like you're full of propaganda and blind loyalty to this Administration. lol



I thought you wanted us to be Socialists? She has to be blind to accomplish that, right? lol

[crakjak]

I think it's important that we maintain a high degree of creditability. For example let's say Iran gets nukes secretly and we approach the international community about it....will they trust us or will they grill us, wasting precious time? It's like the little boy who cried wolf. I think the majority of nations will second guess us now. And I see that as an issue.

I didn't say we "started" radical Islam. I'm saying that we have ignited it. There are record numbers of Muslims joining radical Islamic groups and many groups who were once at odds are uniting. Some of these groups, like Hamas, have become popular enough with the local Arab peoples that they have won elections to official offices. Even Pakistan's relatively moderate government is facing a rising tide of Anti-American political forces that hold radical Islamic tenants. When the Arab world saw us preemptively invade one of their countries on false pretenses...it ignited a groundswell of Anti-Americanism.

Very bad for us. Things are actually worse now because of Iraq. We're not safer...it's never been more dangerous.

And how do they know that it was "false pretenses?" Because the leftist media in this country has demonized the actions of our government, and the Democrats have picked up the drumbeat for political expedience. And the world plays back our own media and politicos, how stupid can a people be?? Unbelievable. Yet, don't dare call them unpatriotic, that would just be over the line.

I am not in lock step with W, I wish he were even stronger against the fanatics around the world, and I wish he were more conservative financially and stronger on social issues. But I understand that you cannot legislate morality.

[crakjak]

So even if this guy's telling the truth the Bush Administration should get a free pass on this? C'mon...this is far more corrupt than President Clinton trying to cover up an affair.

In the same context he praises Bush and says he still respects him. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that Bush supported the current governor of Texas for re-election instead of his mom who was running as an independent? Just a thought.

[Pressing-On]

In the same context he praises Bush and says he still respects him. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that Bush supported the current governor of Texas for re-election instead of his mom who was running as an independent? Just a thought.
Good question! I don't think she would have won anyway, but it is a good question.

[Grasshopper]

Give it all time.... ;)

[Cindy]

Of course you don't. :toofunny

To me, you sound like you're full of propaganda and blind loyalty to this Administration. lol

Oh well...time will tell...time will tell. I assure you, strong Republicans are going to come forward with the truth when Bush is gone and it's politically safe to do so. You'll be left wondering why you didn't see what I'm trying to tell you.

Well I hate to burst your little bubble, but I am not loyal to any administration or party. But I am also not stupid. No matter which side it comes from propaganda is propaganda.

[Grasshopper]

Well I hate to burst your little bubble, but I am not loyal to any administration or party. But I am also not stupid. No matter which side it comes from propaganda is propaganda.

Well...let's see what unfolds. I pray you're right...because if you're wrong...well...most likely y'all wont care then either. lol

[Cindy]

Well...let's see what unfolds. I pray you're right...because if you're wrong...well...most likely y'all wont care then either. lol

Nope, I won't. I just like to post with you and mess with you a little. Sometimes I even agree with you, but don't tell anybody.........:D

[Grasshopper]

Nope, I won't. I just like to post with you and mess with you a little. Sometimes I even agree with you, but don't tell anybody.........:D

Jeesh...lol Don't be afraid to mention it sometimes. I've gotten to the point where I've considered not calling myself Christian because I'm not a Republican any more. Most I talked to about it pretty much tell me such. Oh well...let time unravel it. There's nothing hidden that won't be revealed. And I have a feeling when we see what all this Administration has done it's going to be down right shocking. And it won't be just liberals pointing back to it...it will be significant conservatives too.

And maybe I'll chime in with a little "I told y'all so!" LOL

[Cindy]

Jeesh...lol Don't be afraid to mention it sometimes. I've gotten to the point where I've considered not calling myself Christian because I'm not a Republican any more. Most I talked to about it pretty much tell me such. Oh well...let time unravel it. There's nothing hidden that won't be revealed. And I have a feeling when we see what all this Administration has done it's going to be down right shocking. And it won't be just liberals pointing back to it...it will be significant conservatives too.

And maybe I'll chime in with a little "I told y'all so!" LOL

I hear ya.........:toofunny

[chosenbyone]

I believe the war to uproot the Taliban and al Queda was necessary. I don't think Iraq was based on the things I've studied. Wolfowitz was pushing to invade Iraq under the first Bush Presidency and then H. W. Bush rebuked him for being to radical and ordered then Secretary of Defense, Dick Cheney to re-write the policy papers. I think that our military action in Afghanistan was absolutely called for...however, I'm convinced that Iraq was pushed on us by men with an agenda. While I could be wrong...I firmly believe that once Bush is gone men will come out of the woodwork about how deceptive, secretive, and corrupt this regime has been. And I feel these men will be prominent Republicans who are currently quiet because it would be political suicide to speak out right now.

We'll have to revisit this in a few years. I'm convinced you'll look back at your position here and be amazed that you're lock step behind President Bush.

And bro...radical Islam is bigger right now than it was prior to Bush's invasion of Iraq. As a matter of fact this Administration's policies have united various Islamic factions that used to be at odds in addition to having motivated widespread sympathy and devotion to radical Islam throughout the Middle East and Asia.


Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11...plain and simple. The night of 9/11, Rumsfield and the other neocons immediately tried to connect the two in order to overthrow Saddam.

Leading up to the war, the Bush Administration made claims that Iraq was helping Al Queda and was sponsoring terrorism...oh, yeah, and they warned of an attack from Iraq using WMD. Remember, the mushroom cloud statement that Bush and Rice stated in order to create more fear in the American public.

A year and a half after the invasion of Iraq, Bush, Cheney and others backed off from the connection between Iraq and 9/11. In fact, they did a 180 and stated that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but Saddam was a tyrant and he was a brutal dictator and he had to be removed for the sake of his people.

If we would have kept our focus in Afghanistan were we have lost ground in rooting out the Taliban in recent months we would have accomplished our objectives in our war on terrorism. When Bush stated a few years ago that he wasn't really that concerned with Osama Bin Laden and the lack of public outrage lead me to believe that we would never win this "war".

Funny how this administration would send a diplomatic envoy to meet with the leader of Sudan who allowed the people of Darfur to be slaughtered by the millions yet felt it necessary to intervene in Iraq where under Saddam the Iraq Christians had more freedom than in Sudan (the majority of those that were slain in Darfur were Christians killed by the muslims).

[crakjak]

Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11...plain and simple. The night of 9/11, Rumsfield and the other neocons immediately tried to connect the two in order to overthrow Saddam.

Leading up to the war, the Bush Administration made claims that Iraq was helping Al Queda and was sponsoring terrorism...oh, yeah, and they warned of an attack from Iraq using WMD. Remember, the mushroom cloud statement that Bush and Rice stated in order to create more fear in the American public.

A year and a half after the invasion of Iraq, Bush, Cheney and others backed off from the connection between Iraq and 9/11. In fact, they did a 180 and stated that Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11, but Saddam was a tyrant and he was a brutal dictator and he had to be removed for the sake of his people.

If we would have kept our focus in Afghanistan were we have lost ground in rooting out the Taliban in recent months we would have accomplished our objectives in our war on terrorism. When Bush stated a few years ago that he wasn't really that concerned with Osama Bin Laden and the lack of public outrage lead me to believe that we would never win this "war".

Funny how this administration would send a diplomatic envoy to meet with the leader of Sudan who allowed the people of Darfur to be slaughtered by the millions yet felt it necessary to intervene in Iraq where under Saddam the Iraq Christians had more freedom than in Sudan (the majority of those that were slain in Darfur were Christians killed by the muslims).


Bush and Cheney have just tried to stay functional with the onslaught of the pacifiers and defeatist from every corner being overwhelming. I don't know how our government could be functional with all the division and derision from every corner, absolute chaos. Bush has done well to keep the radicals at bay in this country, and I give him high marks for doing so.

The radicals are so pervasive in the Middle East that solid base from which to attack them was very important. Saddam's cup was full to overflowing and God directed his downfall, I would be very careful about condemning what God has bought to pass to remove Saddam and his murderous sons that had persecuted the Iraq people for decades. Bush may not have even known why Iraq was his focus. The bigger picture is the US has been at work taking out the leadership of radicals from our bases in Iraq, there is much more going on than meets the eye. Sudan's day is coming, God will not allow evil men to persist indefinitely. He raises up leaders and He brings down leaders His purpose to accomplish, and that includes Bush and the Republicans if necessary.

Oh, btw, why did Saddam have a jetliner being used for training, he was solidly involved and would have funded and helped in anyway possible to hurt the US. Paying for suicide bombers lives for attacking civilians in Israel, and generally promoting radicalism, we should not be so generous with him, he does not deserve to be let off the hook.

[Pressing-On]

What Scott had to say:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video_log/2008/05/scott_mcclellan_on_the_today_s.html


What Michael Regan had to say:

A Matter of Loyalty

(excerpt)
As David Horowitz and his co-author Ben Johnson write in "Party of Defeat," George Bush acted solely to enforce a United Nations ultimatum blatantly ignored by Saddam Hussein.

Wrote the authors: "The United States went to war because it had concluded that Saddam Hussein could not be trusted to observe the arms agreement embedded in the UN resolutions. Twelve years of defiance and obstruction leading up to, and including the December 7 deadline had established that fact. Even then, the Bush administration was prepared to forego war if Saddam and his sons left the country and went into exile, thus allowing the terms of the UN resolutions to be met."

Scott McClellan surely knew this but chose to ignore it, preferring to give ammunition to those who want to advance a false view of the conflict's genesis.

In the end, it's all about money.

When I wrote my first book, "On the Outside Looking in," I had publishers waving huge royalties in my face if I would only sling mud at my father. They couldn't understand that there was simply no mud in his life and work, and I wasn't willing to create any for them for the sake of big bucks.

Too bad Scott McClellan, blinded by the glitter of those 30 pieces of sliver, didn't see it that way.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/MichaelReagan/2008/05/29/a_matter_of_loyalty?page=2

[Grasshopper]

Bush and Cheney have just tried to stay functional with the onslaught of the pacifiers and defeatist from every corner being overwhelming. I don't know how our government could be functional with all the division and derision from every corner, absolute chaos. Bush has done well to keep the radicals at bay in this country, and I give him high marks for doing so.

The radicals are so pervasive in the Middle East that solid base from which to attack them was very important. Saddam's cup was full to overflowing and God directed his downfall, I would be very careful about condemning what God has bought to pass to remove Saddam and his murderous sons that had persecuted the Iraq people for decades. Bush may not have even known why Iraq was his focus. The bigger picture is the US has been at work taking out the leadership of radicals from our bases in Iraq, there is much more going on than meets the eye. Sudan's day is coming, God will not allow evil men to persist indefinitely. He raises up leaders and He brings down leaders His purpose to accomplish, and that includes Bush and the Republicans if necessary.

Oh, btw, why did Saddam have a jetliner being used for training, he was solidly involved and would have funded and helped in anyway possible to hurt the US. Paying for suicide bombers lives for attacking civilians in Israel, and generally promoting radicalism, we should not be so generous with him, he does not deserve to be let off the hook.

Do you really believe that only the Buss/Cheney Administration wants to protect America? Bro...disagreement and a desire to take a different approach isn't appeasement or being a pacifier.

And the issue isn't the war on terror. That's a war we must definately fight and defend ourselves from. But Iraq wasn't al Queda. Bush used the public trust and fear to launch an unnecessary war in Iraq instead of focusing on al Queda and Islamic radicals in Afghanistan. Osama ben Laden is still sending us videos. Bro...we should have stopped at nothing to kill that guy.

In my mind this is like if we were bombed by Japan during WWII and we dispatched the Navy to attack Japan...and just for good measure invaded another country...well...just because of some false weapons we claimed they had.

Bro...you really need to read Buchanan's new book. Bush is making some colossal mistakes and Iraq is one of them.

Dont' equate questioning Iraq with questioning Afghanistan or the War on Terror. It's two different subjects. Iraq was sold to us under false pretenses.

[Grasshopper]

Bush and Cheney have just tried to stay functional with the onslaught of the pacifiers and defeatist from every corner being overwhelming. I don't know how our government could be functional with all the division and derision from every corner, absolute chaos. Bush has done well to keep the radicals at bay in this country, and I give him high marks for doing so.

The radicals are so pervasive in the Middle East that solid base from which to attack them was very important. Saddam's cup was full to overflowing and God directed his downfall, I would be very careful about condemning what God has bought to pass to remove Saddam and his murderous sons that had persecuted the Iraq people for decades. Bush may not have even known why Iraq was his focus. The bigger picture is the US has been at work taking out the leadership of radicals from our bases in Iraq, there is much more going on than meets the eye. Sudan's day is coming, God will not allow evil men to persist indefinitely. He raises up leaders and He brings down leaders His purpose to accomplish, and that includes Bush and the Republicans if necessary.

Oh, btw, why did Saddam have a jetliner being used for training, he was solidly involved and would have funded and helped in anyway possible to hurt the US. Paying for suicide bombers lives for attacking civilians in Israel, and generally promoting radicalism, we should not be so generous with him, he does not deserve to be let off the hook.

So would a dozen other countries. Let's just nuke everyone preemptively. You guys are crazy.

[Grasshopper]

What Scott had to say:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video_log/2008/05/scott_mcclellan_on_the_today_s.html


What Michael Regan had to say:

A Matter of Loyalty

(excerpt)
As David Horowitz and his co-author Ben Johnson write in "Party of Defeat," George Bush acted solely to enforce a United Nations ultimatum blatantly ignored by Saddam Hussein.

Wrote the authors: "The United States went to war because it had concluded that Saddam Hussein could not be trusted to observe the arms agreement embedded in the UN resolutions. Twelve years of defiance and obstruction leading up to, and including the December 7 deadline had established that fact. Even then, the Bush administration was prepared to forego war if Saddam and his sons left the country and went into exile, thus allowing the terms of the UN resolutions to be met."

Scott McClellan surely knew this but chose to ignore it, preferring to give ammunition to those who want to advance a false view of the conflict's genesis.

In the end, it's all about money.

When I wrote my first book, "On the Outside Looking in," I had publishers waving huge royalties in my face if I would only sling mud at my father. They couldn't understand that there was simply no mud in his life and work, and I wasn't willing to create any for them for the sake of big bucks.

Too bad Scott McClellan, blinded by the glitter of those 30 pieces of sliver, didn't see it that way.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/MichaelReagan/2008/05/29/a_matter_of_loyalty?page=2

Riiigggghhhht. Bush is Jesus and McClellan is Judas. Give me a break. You're so blind. Just wait...people, sound conservatives, will come out of the woodwork on this one and you'll look real bad. Just wait. You'll find that the only one being sold for 30 peices of silver is the truth.

Go ahead and defend defend defend this Administration. Bush isn't no Regan and as soon as he doesn't have the power to destroy political adversaries and people feel safe enough they'll come clean.

And Pressing...you'll have egg all over your face.

[DividedThigh]

grass why dont you just debate the issue with people without gettin all graphically personal, sorry bro but you have no credibility, it is obvious to all you have an agenda, so there you go, dt

[Pressing-On]

Riiigggghhhht. Bush is Jesus and McClellan is Judas. Give me a break. You're so blind. Just wait...people, sound conservatives, will come out of the woodwork on this one and you'll look real bad. Just wait. You'll find that the only one being sold for 30 peices of silver is the truth.

Go ahead and defend defend defend this Administration. Bush isn't no Regan and as soon as he doesn't have the power to destroy political adversaries and people feel safe enough they'll come clean.

And Pressing...you'll have egg all over your face.
I had eggs for breakfast, but I didn't rub them on my face. The Omega 3s are a little pricey to waste. :D

I don't think I said that Bush was Jesus, last time I checked, and I didn't call McClellan Judas.

Viewing both interviews by Ari Fletcher, http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video_log/2008/05/fleischer_on_mcclellans_new_bo.html, and McClellan - it left me wondering what was up with McClellan.

The 30 pieces of silver were Michael Regan's words and not mine.

If we are going to discuss this I would like to put out the clips, links and info in order to make our own judgment.

You've gotten a lot bolder and ruder in your posting since you changed your posting name. I'm going to change mine to "Hysterical" and see what I can do with that! :thumbsup

[DividedThigh]

I had eggs for breakfast, but I didn't rub them on my face. The Omega 3s are a little pricey to waste. :D

I don't think I said that Bush was Jesus last time I checked and I didn't call McClellan Judas.

Viewing both interviews by Ari Fletcher, which I didn't post, and McClellan - it left me wondering what was up with McClellan.

The 30 pieces of silver were Michael Regan's words and not mine.

If we are going to discuss this I would like to put out the clips, links and info in order to make our own judgment.

You've gotten a lot bolder and ruder in your posting since you changed your posting name. I'm going to change mine to "Hysterical" and see what I can do with that! :thumbsup

make it happen press, dt:toofunny

[Pressing-On]

make it happen press, dt:toofunny

I'm in the mood for that today - believe me. Our air conditioner is freezing up and our service guy isn't calling back!!!!!! Grrrrrrrr! :toofunny

[Grasshopper]

grass why dont you just debate the issue with people without gettin all graphically personal, sorry bro but you have no credibility, it is obvious to all you have an agenda, so there you go, dt

I’m not meaning to get real personal. I’m just poking a little fun while pointing out something very real…people are really dying over this bro.

And as for agendas…everyone has an agenda. Some have an agenda to find the truth and make sure others know about what’s really happening. Others have an agenda to cover it up and make the party look good…no matter what. While you may freely say I have an agenda…we’ll see how many serious conservatives come out of the woodwork after Bush is out of office and speak about what they knew but couldn’t tell us for fear of being politically destroyed. Eventually the light will shine through and it will be revealed to all whose agenda was speaking the truth. There will be mounting facts, details, and testimonies about something this big bro. This isn’t some affair with a woman in the Oval Office…this is a war. Pre-emptive. Pre-meditated. Evidence trumped up and fabricated. This is war profiteering and 21st Century imperialism. This is a patriot act that threatens Constitutional liberties. And yes…I have an agenda, to know and tell the truth. And I don’t believe the Bush regime is telling us the truth. It all just doesn’t add up. The more and more that comes to light the more and more it becomes evident…we were lied to about Iraq because they had an agenda. So I admit to my agenda. What’s your agenda? To cover for the Republicans? To cover for Bush? To keep us little religious minions marching to the voting booth pulling the lever for the “R’s”?

I also have a secondary agenda. To expose the blind obedience and loyalty among us to a political party. A loyalty that will compromise all reason, common sense, and honesty. And in order to do that I plan on revisiting this subject with you and others…not to embarrass you…but in the hopes that you’re shaken so badly at all this that you choose bold and prophetic honesty over party loyalty after you finally realize how they’ve used us all as pawns. I don’t want to make you a “Democrat” or anything like that…but I do want to help you realize that yes…you’ve been a pawn in their game so that you never will be again.

I’m a “throw the bums out” voter. If I’m not happy with the Democrats, I assure you I’ll be here confronting the Democratic loyalists who are mindlessly loyal to the “D’s” and being their pawns. I don’t trust the Democrats or the Republicans when it comes down to it. I think right now the D’s are fighting to reveal the truth for their own political advancement…but that means they’re desperate to tell us what’s happening to win our trust….after the first term I firmly believe the Democrats will be hiding their little agendas and the R’s will be fighting to reveal the truth about it and win our trust to win elections. It’s like a cycle, a tide, an ebb and a flow. A pendulum that swings to the right and then to the left.

We’re Christians. We shouldn’t be Democrats or Republicans really. Because that entails giving loyalty to corrupt powers of this world. And I’ve seen good men lie, lie, lie to make their party of choice look good, yes, even over the pulpit. Bro…that sickens me and makes me so angry I feel like strangling someone. Because as long as we are defined by party and conservative or liberal politics we twist the truth and lie to advance that agenda….and we fail the kingdom of God.

Oh well…bro…them’s my thoughts. Time will reveal the truth. If I’m wrong I’ll admit it. But my question is…if this Administration is proven to be full of corruption and deception…will you?

I don’t believe a word Bush says…you do. I want him exposed. You want him protected. Both of us are sincere. But only one of us is right. It’s not about me being a “Democrat”. If it were the Martian Party I’d be behind them to uproot this administration to find the truth.

[Grasshopper]

I had eggs for breakfast, but I didn't rub them on my face. The Omega 3s are a little pricey to waste. :D

I don't think I said that Bush was Jesus, last time I checked, and I didn't call McClellan Judas.

Viewing both interviews by Ari Fletcher, http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video_log/2008/05/fleischer_on_mcclellans_new_bo.html, and McClellan - it left me wondering what was up with McClellan.

The 30 pieces of silver were Michael Regan's words and not mine.

If we are going to discuss this I would like to put out the clips, links and info in order to make our own judgment.

I’ve seen it on TV. I think Ari is running interference for the Administration. He’s a loyalist and he plans on remaining involved in politics, his career is on the line. There will be more and more “McClellan’s” and conservatives come forward and eventually it will just look ridiculous that all these men were poopooed and accused to be discredited by the conservative bloggosphere. I think the conservative movement and conservative religious has been hijacked by right wing fascists. The only conservatives I still relate to are Buchanan and sometimes Newt. The conservatism I would tend to lean toward isn’t this modern radical neo-conservatism that’s so popular…but paleo-conservatism. It’s almost like a race to see who’s more conservative…almost to the point of selling all of America on the open market or anarchism. I don’t relate to it. I feel the Republican Party isn’t the party I used to look up to. Oh…the Democrats aren’t that much better really. But they will serve as an excellent tool to punish the Republican Party in the hopes that it wakes up and really thinks beyond the gimmicks and marketing schemes to swindle us out of what little money we have while they sellout to companies who are just raping the American people.

Oh well. I know you’re sincere. But I’m convinced that as more comes to light you’ll be found sincerely wrong. I pray you’re right. Because if you are wrong…the church and America are in far worse shape because of this President than most are willing to admit.

Time will tell.

[DividedThigh]

ok grass you keep doing whatever it is you do, still love ya, dt

[Pressing-On]

I’ve seen it on TV. I think Ari is running interference for the Administration. He’s a loyalist and he plans on remaining involved in politics, his career is on the line. There will be more and more “McClellan’s” and conservatives come forward and eventually it will just look ridiculous that all these men were poopooed and accused to be discredited by the conservative bloggosphere. I think the conservative movement and conservative religious has been hijacked by right wing fascists. The only conservatives I still relate to are Buchanan and sometimes Newt. The conservatism I would tend to lean toward isn’t this modern radical neo-conservatism that’s so popular…but paleo-conservatism. It’s almost like a race to see who’s more conservative…almost to the point of selling all of America on the open market or anarchism. I don’t relate to it. I feel the Republican Party isn’t the party I used to look up to. Oh…the Democrats aren’t that much better really. But they will serve as an excellent tool to punish the Republican Party in the hopes that it wakes up and really thinks beyond the gimmicks and marketing schemes to swindle us out of what little money we have while they sellout to companies who are just raping the American people.

Oh well. I know you’re sincere. But I’m convinced that as more comes to light you’ll be found sincerely wrong. I pray you’re right. Because if you are wrong…the church and America are in far worse shape because of this President than most are willing to admit.

Time will tell.

Did you want someone that "wasn't" loyal to work for the Administration they served?

God will have a church regardless of Welfare, SS, government, your neighbor, etc. It doesn't make any difference to me.

I'm praying for my officials as the Bible instructs and voting so I don't look foolish if I gripe about what I don't like. :D

[Sam]

Notice no one here appears as concerned with the implications regarding the war and this administration as they are about finding fault with the messenger. Again...Bush get's a free pass by religious conservatives. What if this is true?

It's not about President Bush is getting a free pass by religious conservatives.
There are some Christians who are unhappy with the Bush presidency.
It's just that a book is out, in an election year, claiming to be an expose of the current President. How much credibility could anyone attach to that?

[Pressing-On]

It's not about President Bush is getting a free pass by religious conservatives.
There are some Christians who are unhappy with the Bush presidency.
It's just that a book is out, in an election year, claiming to be an expose of the current President. How much credibility could anyone attach to that?

So true and he is talking about "possibly" voting for Obama. He seems bitter to me.

[Cindy]

In the same context he praises Bush and says he still respects him. I wonder if it has anything to do with the fact that Bush supported the current governor of Texas for re-election instead of his mom who was running as an independent? Just a thought.

I know right, and that I do have a problem with, our current Governor that is. I will be so happy when he is out of office. I won't tell you what he reminds me of.

[Grasshopper]

It's not about President Bush is getting a free pass by religious conservatives.
There are some Christians who are unhappy with the Bush presidency.
It's just that a book is out, in an election year, claiming to be an expose of the current President. How much credibility could anyone attach to that?

First this books been in the works for a while and the Administration has known about how it might be somewhat critical...of course...they didn't know how critical.

Bro...imagine with me that you're in the writer's shoes. When would you want to release your book if you knew about so much corruption? Would you really wait until after an election where a man might win who will perpetuate such policies? Imagine releasing a book a month after that man won. Bro...as a voter who wants to be informed, I'd wonder why you waited until after the election to tell us the truth about these guys. If you're going to out the crooks you owe it to the America people to out them before we have the chance of choosing them again.

[Grasshopper]

Did you want someone that "wasn't" loyal to work for the Administration they served?

This isn't a football game...this isn't about being true to your team or your school.
Public servants don't serve any Administration....they serve the American people. Their loyalty is owed to the American people. If you were President you wouldn't want me working for you...because if you deceived the American people...I would out you.

God will have a church regardless of Welfare, SS, government, your neighbor, etc. It doesn't make any difference to me.

Sounds good on paper....but if they trashed SS and the elderly fell into absolute poverty many could suffer and without Medicare to help them with health conditions...they could die. That makes a difference to me.

I'm praying for my officials as the Bible instructs and voting so I don't look foolish if I gripe about what I don't like. :D

LOL

I'm praying too...praying that God reveal corruption and protect us all. ;)

[Pressing-On]

This isn't a football game...this isn't about being true to your team or your school.
Public servants don't serve any Administration....they serve the American people. Their loyalty is owed to the American people. If you were President you wouldn't want me working for you...because if you deceived the American people...I would out you.
I agree. I just don't think with all I've read that it is what McClellan says it is, especially after I heard him, today, say that he liked Obama and that it is a possibility that he could vote for him.



Sounds good on paper....but if they trashed SS and the elderly fell into absolute poverty many could suffer and without Medicare to help them with health conditions...they could die. That makes a difference to me.
Yes, it would be bad, but God is always present. We can't allow all of these things to frighten us. We need to do what is our responsibility and trust in the Lord.



LOL

I'm praying too...praying that God reveal corruption and protect us all. ;)
Sure, that's a good prayer, but more than that and I am sure you do pray this - Lord, raise up some honorable people to govern our country.

[Grasshopper]

I agree. I just don't think with all I've read that it is what McClellan says it is, especially after I heard him, today, say that he liked Obama and that it is a possibility that he could vote for him.

If the corruption he writes about is real...do you think he's going to vote for a man who will perpetuate Bush's policies?

Yes, it would be bad, but God is always present. We can't allow all of these things to frighten us. We need to do what is our responsibility and trust in the Lord.

I agree there.

Sure, that's a good prayer, but more than that and I am sure you do pray this - Lord, raise up some honorable people to govern our country.

Why? They'd never get elected. lol

[Pressing-On]

If the corruption he writes about is real...do you think he's going to vote for a man who will perpetuate Bush's policies?
True, something just bugs me about his story and the timing, Chris. I'll have to see as it goes along.

Why? They'd never get elected. lol
True! :toofunny

[Pressing-On]

I totally agree with Kathleen Parkers take on Scott. Totally agree!

(excerpt)

Revenge of the Nerd


Few can read those words and not feel some empathy for McClellan -- the picked-on boy who just wanted to be one of the cool guys. With few friends and no respect from peers, it seems entirely plausible that McClellan began plotting his revenge long ago. That behind his flaccid facade of befuddled calm was a focused mind marking time.

He would show the Bushies -- and he would show the world -- that Scott McClellan was nobody's chump.

Fast-forward to this week and McClellan is no longer a socially disabled, farcical figure bullied by the press, but king of the bully pulpit -- a triumph of lucidity. All he had to do was switch sides and say what the vast majority of Americans already believe.

Who's the fool now?

Unfortunately for the short, unhappy political life of Scott McClellan, the boy who squealed all the way home may be stuck with the title after all. Because no matter how sweet the revenge, on the playground, the snitch is trusted by no one.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/KathleenParker/2008/05/30/revenge_of_the_nerd

[Pressing-On]

Good article by Mike Gallagher.

It seems that Mr. McClellan, bitter over being pushed out of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave., decided to write a "Mommie Dearest" - type tell-all that suggests that George W. Bush deceived everyone over the reasons for going to war in Iraq. His book is like a tall, cold glass of water for a news media stumbling around in the hot desert trying to find reasons to humiliate our commander-in-chief.

I often wonder if people like Scott McClellan ever stop and think about the pain and grief their money-grubbing antics cause the families of the brave men and women who are serving their country overseas. After all, if one accepts the premise that President Bush erred in going to war, then the mission of the United States military is absolutely in vain. Perhaps when McClellan cashes his hefty paychecks, he'll be like Ebeneezer Scrooge seeing the face of Marley on the door post and see the pained faces of men and women who simply cannot understand why a man like him would want to publish an anti-war book smack dab in the middle of a war.

Do you suppose Osama bin Laden will read McClellan's book? If he does, he's sure to enjoy it.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/MikeGallagher/2008/05/30/john_mccain_finds_his_voice?page=1

[SOUNWORTHY]

So even if this guy's telling the truth the Bush Administration should get a free pass on this? C'mon...this is far more corrupt than President Clinton trying to cover up an affair.

I hope you enjoy what's coming next!!

[Grasshopper]

I totally agree with Kathleen Parkers take on Scott. Totally agree!

(excerpt)

Revenge of the Nerd


Few can read those words and not feel some empathy for McClellan -- the picked-on boy who just wanted to be one of the cool guys. With few friends and no respect from peers, it seems entirely plausible that McClellan began plotting his revenge long ago. That behind his flaccid facade of befuddled calm was a focused mind marking time.

He would show the Bushies -- and he would show the world -- that Scott McClellan was nobody's chump.

Fast-forward to this week and McClellan is no longer a socially disabled, farcical figure bullied by the press, but king of the bully pulpit -- a triumph of lucidity. All he had to do was switch sides and say what the vast majority of Americans already believe.

Who's the fool now?

Unfortunately for the short, unhappy political life of Scott McClellan, the boy who squealed all the way home may be stuck with the title after all. Because no matter how sweet the revenge, on the playground, the snitch is trusted by no one.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/KathleenParker/2008/05/30/revenge_of_the_nerd

Commentary and opinion aren't facts and real news. ;)

McClellan stated various dates, facts, details, conversations, and actions taken in his book. I don't care what they say about McClellan to destroy him personally...I want to know about those details. For example, the corrupt collusion between Rove and Libby. It doesn't matter at all what they say about McClellan if that took place, it demonstrats their corruption and contempt for the law. And when you get into the Iraq War...it doesn't matter what they say about McClellan, they have to demonstrate that they weren't cooking the facts to justify war. And I firmly believe they did and I think it's obvious to an honest soul.

[DividedThigh]

it is really a shame, but hey scott needed money, and people want to hear garbage, even if it is real garbage, so he gets money, and we get hosed, lol,dt

[Grasshopper]

Note to the reader...they attack McClellan to discredit him...they don't touch his accusations. Because they know he's telling the truth. ;)

[Pressing-On]

Here ya go, Chris!

Condoleezza Rice Defends Bush


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWmqc9Bakfk

[Pressing-On]

Bob Dole Calls Scott McClellan a 'Miserable Creature'

Get 'em Bob!!!! :toofunny:toofunny

In the e-mail, Dole basically describes the former White House press secretary as a traitor looking to cash in on the "liberal" media's distaste for President Bush.

"There are miserable creatures like you in every administration who don't have the guts to speak up or quit if there are disagreements with the boss or colleagues," the five-term Kansas senator wrote to McClellan. "No, your type soaks up the benefits of power, revels in the limelight for years, then quits, and spurred on by greed, cashes in with a scathing critique."

He continues: "When the money starts rolling in you should donate it to a worthy cause, something like, 'Biting The Hand That Fed Me.' Another thought is to weasel your way back into the White House if a Democrat is elected. That would provide a good set up for a second book deal in a few years."

I have no intention of reading your "exposé" because if all these awful things were happening, and perhaps some may have been, you should have spoken up publicly like a man, or quit your cushy, high profile job. That would have taken integrity and courage but then you would have had credibility and your complaints could have been aired objectively. You're a hot ticket now but don't you, deep down, feel like a total ingrate?

BOB DOLE

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,360723,00.html

[Rico]

So even if this guy's telling the truth the Bush Administration should get a free pass on this? C'mon...this is far more corrupt than President Clinton trying to cover up an affair.

If this guy had any real proof of wrongdoing, why not take the information to members of Congress who could actually do something about it, like open an investigation?

[Rico]

Everyone forgets that it was the official policy of the US for regime change in Iraq for 15 years prior to the W administration. Saddam defied the whole world community including the toothless UN, America was attacked and the source of that attack was squarely in the Mideast. History will credit the Bush administration with stopping the rise of radical Islam, the Democrats will no more pull out of Iraq abruptly than a goose, it is all politics.

President Bush has been so demonized by the press, the Democrats and wimpy Republicans that anyone who defends him is made to look the fool. I appreciate a man that makes hard decisions and very, very slow changes him mind. A man that can stand against the onslaught on that has been brought against W would break most men, few could govern at all with such goofiness being puked all over the airwaves and internet.

Oh, btw we haven't been attacked in the homeland since 9/11, Bush hasn't done too badly on the most important of his task.

I was behind Bush and the Iraq war when it started. I was even behind it when it turned out the intelligence was faulty, because I believed it would have been very irresponsible for us to pull out and leave the Iraqis to fend for themselves. When our involvement in Iraq turned into being stuck in the middle of a civil war, I realized it was time for us to put an exit strategy together. The way things stand now I can see no end in sight. That is not what backed when I backed our President.

[Grasshopper]

Here ya go, Chris!

Condoleezza Rice Defends Bush


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWmqc9Bakfk

Condi said nothing to address McClellan's statements. She illustrates that the one thing she's certain of is that it wasn't wrong to liberate the Iraqi people. Then she goes on to claim that the entire world thought Saddam had WMDs. But there are problems with this. Yes, the world suspected Saddam of having anthrax and poison gasses...but the Administration used terms like "mushroom cloud", "drones", "nuclear weapons", etc. McClellan never claims the world didn't suspect Iraq of having WMD's...he accuses the Administration of exaggerating and fabricating the level of danger to sell the war to the American people...and that appears to be what they have done. When the Administration started making statements about nuclear material and nuclear weapons in Iraq, CIA officials warned that evidence was lacking. The IAEA warned that that Iraq wasn't capable of producing nuclear weapons. Powell even showed satalite images of what was believed to be a weapons lab that proved false. The issue is that the Bush Administration exaggerated the dangers about Iraq with implying that they might have nuclear weapons or be on the brink of developing them to terrify us into supporting the war.

Now McClellan's book does say some things that I thought was interesting that may show that he has some inside knowledge and is telling the truth. You see the Democrats claimed Bush did this to liberate oil from Saddam's control and place it under a probusiness American puppet for the benefit of American oil companies. McClellan doesn't claim that. He claims that the Bush Administration believed that they could revolutionize the Middle East by advancing democracy in Iraq. McClellan calls this an idealistic vision that proved to be a strategic blunder. Notice...McClellan doesn't repeat the Democratic mantra of Bush being greedy and launching a war for oil....McClellan claims the Administration had a false idealism that lead them to sincerely think that by establishing democracy in Iraq they could revolutionize the Middle East. In other words McClellan claims would imply that the Bush Administration felt it would be in the world's best interests to establish democracy in Iraq...but couldn't get support for an invasion based on anthrax or nerve gas...so they trumped up the charges to include presence or imminent development of nuclear WMD's.

McClellan's accusations if true would prove one thing...the war wasn't about oil...it was about an idealistic vision of changing the Middle East by invading a country and establishing democracy. But the issue is, not only was this vision too idealistic, it was a strategic blunder that was sold to the people by presenting distortions, deceptions, and exaggerations of danger to the American people.

If McClellan was just another Democratic hack...he wouldn't let the Administration off the hook about invading for oil so easily.

I think McClellan's telling the truth. We were lied to because the Bush Administration thought a war in Iraq would be in the best interests of the Middle East and the world abroad...so they lied to us to get the war they wanted. The only problem is...things haven't turned out the way they expected them to turn out. So now we got a mess based on lies.

[Grasshopper]

Bob Dole Calls Scott McClellan a 'Miserable Creature'

Get 'em Bob!!!! :toofunny:toofunny

Notice Bob Dole doesn't go on record against the facts around the accusations in McClellan's book...he attacks McClellan personally. ;)

Here's the deal folks...McClellan admits that he was caught up in the idealism of the Administrations policies, believing they were in our best interests even if there were issues with some of the data given to the American people. But as time passed and he discovered more details about Rove and Libby, about how the strategy of the Administration was proving to be a blunder costly in lives, money, and American respect abroad he began looking into things himself and found that he was wrong and the Administration should face it's failed policies and it's shameful propaganda campaign to rally the American people around a war of choice and not necessity.

I'm warning all you Bush loyalists...when this Administration is out of power we're going to have all kinds of stuff come to light. I believe it will show how corrupt this Administration has been and how much they lied to us. I love all my conservative brethren here...I think it would be wise to back up from defending this Administration and take a "could be right" position and wait it all out to see if we've been lied to. Because if y'all ideologically defend these guys and they're proven to be as corrupt as the day is long it's going to make your judgment look questionable and could conceivably make you look like you're of like spirit. I think better of you guys, even if we disagree on some political issues. Don't let this Administration taint you.

I know a guy who supported Clinton...and when he heard about how Clinton was accused of having an affair he said, "Awww man." His buddies asked, "So do you think it's true?" He said, "Bro, this is Clinton, I know it's true." Though he supported Clinton, he was willing to accept and tell the truth about the man. We need men with that much integrity about the Bush Administration. We need conservatives who will tell the truth about there own. Conservatives who value their loyalty to the American people more than their loyalty to a President or a party. McClellan just might be that kind of conservative.

God bless.

[Rico]

Condi said nothing to address McClellan's statements. She illustrates that the one thing she's certain of is that it wasn't wrong to liberate the Iraqi people. Then she goes on to claim that the entire world thought Saddam had WMDs. But there are problems with this. Yes, the world suspected Saddam of having anthrax and poison gasses...but the Administration used terms like "mushroom cloud", "drones", "nuclear weapons", etc. McClellan never claims the world didn't suspect Iraq of having WMD's...he accuses the Administration of exaggerating and fabricating the level of danger to sell the war to the American people...and that appears to be what they have done. When the Administration started making statements about nuclear material and nuclear weapons in Iraq, CIA officials warned that evidence was lacking. The IAEA warned that that Iraq wasn't capable of producing nuclear weapons. Powell even showed satalite images of what was believed to be a weapons lab that proved false. The issue is that the Bush Administration exaggerated the dangers about Iraq with implying that they might have nuclear weapons or be on the brink of developing them to terrify us into supporting the war.

Now McClellan's book does say some things that I thought was interesting that may show that he has some inside knowledge and is telling the truth. You see the Democrats claimed Bush did this to liberate oil from Saddam's control and place it under a probusiness American puppet for the benefit of American oil companies. McClellan doesn't claim that. He claims that the Bush Administration believed that they could revolutionize the Middle East by advancing democracy in Iraq. McClellan calls this an idealistic vision that proved to be a strategic blunder. Notice...McClellan doesn't repeat the Democratic mantra of Bush being greedy and launching a war for oil....McClellan claims the Administration had a false idealism that lead them to sincerely think that by establishing democracy in Iraq they could revolutionize the Middle East. In other words McClellan claims would imply that the Bush Administration felt it would be in the world's best interests to establish democracy in Iraq...but couldn't get support for an invasion based on anthrax or nerve gas...so they trumped up the charges to include presence or imminent development of nuclear WMD's.

McClellan's accusations if true would prove one thing...the war wasn't about oil...it was about an idealistic vision of changing the Middle East by invading a country and establishing democracy. But the issue is, not only was this vision too idealistic, it was a strategic blunder that was sold to the people by presenting distortions, deceptions, and exaggerations of danger to the American people.

If McClellan was just another Democratic hack...he wouldn't let the Administration off the hook about invading for oil so easily.

I think McClellan's telling the truth. We were lied to because the Bush Administration thought a war in Iraq would be in the best interests of the Middle East and the world abroad...so they lied to us to get the war they wanted. The only problem is...things haven't turned out the way they expected them to turn out. So now we got a mess based on lies.

Saddam Hussein proved he had weapons of mass destruction when he gassed thousands of his own people. Anyone who would be willing to use those types of weapons on his own people would not hesitate to use them on others. He admitted before his death that he tried to make it look to the rest of the world that he was up to no good in developing other ways of using WMDs, even though he wasn't. Hussein played a game with the rest of the world and his cost him his life.

[Grasshopper]

Saddam Hussein proved he had weapons of mass destruction when he gassed thousands of his own people. Anyone who would be willing to use those types of weapons on his own people would not hesitate to use them on others. He admitted before his death that he tried to make it look to the rest of the world that he was up to no good in developing other ways of using WMDs, even though he wasn't. Hussein played a game with the rest of the world and his cost him his life.

Bro...most nations in the world have the ability to gas a significant number of people...that's no reason to lie to justify an invasion. Hey...we've got that ability many times over...what if Russia felt a preemptive attack on the US to protect her interests were justified? We can't go around invading every country that has gas or uses it...we'd have war without end and it would be the death of us. But here's the deal...a Middle Eastern nation with nukes...now that justifies military action to protect Israel and our economic interests in the region, like oil. That's why Bush led us to believe they already had nukes or were on the verge of having them in a couple months.

Strong sanctions were already causing Saddam's regime to teeter on the verge of collapse. The IAEA, the UN, and the CIA warned that they believed Saddam was bluffing in his rhetoric... seeing that his regime was a sinking ship. If you can remember that's why they were demanding more inspections to verify the charges Bush was making. It all wasn't adding up. The Administration made the case that more inspections weren't needed because Saddam wasn't complying anyway and pushed for the war. Hate to say it...but if the inspectors got in again...they may have proven the Administration's accusations regarding nuclear capability and projects to be exaggerated.

Here's what gets my goat...if McClellan is right...the IAEA and the United Nations was telling us more truth about Iraq than the Bush Administration.

[chosenbyone]

Saddam Hussein proved he had weapons of mass destruction when he gassed thousands of his own people. Anyone who would be willing to use those types of weapons on his own people would not hesitate to use them on others. He admitted before his death that he tried to make it look to the rest of the world that he was up to no good in developing other ways of using WMDs, even though he wasn't. Hussein played a game with the rest of the world and his cost him his life.

The sad reality was that the US sold Saddam the very gas he used on his own people.

[Rico]

Bro...most nations in the world have the ability to gas a significant number of people...that's no reason to lie to justify an invasion. Hey...we've got that ability many times over...what if Russia felt a preemptive attack on the US to protect her interests were justified? We can't go around invading every country that has gas or uses it...we'd have war without end and it would be the death of us. But here's the deal...a Middle Eastern nation with nukes...now that justifies military action to protect Israel and our economic interests in the region, like oil. That's why Bush led us to believe they already had nukes or were on the verge of having them in a couple months.

Strong sanctions were already causing Saddam's regime to teeter on the verge of collapse. The IAEA, the UN, and the CIA warned that they believed Saddam was bluffing in his rhetoric... seeing that his regime was a sinking ship. If you can remember that's why they were demanding more inspections to verify the charges Bush was making. It all wasn't adding up. The Administration made the case that more inspections weren't needed because Saddam wasn't complying anyway and pushed for the war. Hate to say it...but if the inspectors got in again...they may have proven the Administration's accusations regarding nuclear capability and projects to be exaggerated.

Here's what gets my goat...if McClellan is right...the IAEA and the United Nations was telling us more truth about Iraq than the Bush Administration.

Brother, as I said in another post, if this McClellan fella had any real proof of his allegations, and actually cared about the supposed injustices he's attempting to correct, then why didn't he take his proof to the members of Congress for them to investigate? The democrats would love nothing more than to have a justifiable reason to hand Bush his own head on a silver platter.

[Rico]

The sad reality was that the US sold Saddam the very gas he used on his own people.

We certainly had our hand in creating the dragon we later had to come back and slay.

[Grasshopper]

Brother, as I said in another post, if this McClellan fella had any real proof of his allegations, and actually cared about the supposed injustices he's attempting to correct, then why didn't he take his proof to the members of Congress for them to investigate? The democrats would love nothing more than to have a justifiable reason to hand Bush his own head on a silver platter.

Well...first the Rove/Libby thing is already in the legal process. Everything about Katrina is history, maybe disheartening, but nothing criminal. First they'd have to be willing to hear him, he's only a formal press secretary. His story regarding the Iraq War would bring cabnet officials, defense committees, the Pentagon and a number of high level government officials under deep scrutiny, then factor in all the high level top secret stuff that they would use to prevent discussion on the issue. It's better to write a book, get the story out, allow open discussion on it, and if Congress wishes to act or hear him formally they can act.

[Rico]

Well...first the Rove/Libby thing is already in the legal process. Everything about Katrina is history, maybe disheartening, but nothing criminal. First they'd have to be willing to hear him, he's only a formal press secretary. His story regarding the Iraq War would bring cabnet officials, defense committees, the Pentagon and a number of high level government officials under deep scrutiny, then factor in all the high level top secret stuff that they would use to prevent discussion on the issue. It's better to write a book, get the story out, allow open discussion on it, and if Congress wishes to act or hear him formally they can act.

Just imagine the props a democratic congressman or senator would get for being the one to initiate such an investigation. They've been looking for a reason to give the Bush administration the old one-two since he got elected. Plus, they've suffered embarassment after embarassment since they took over the House with the promise of doing something to stop the Bush administration. All it would take is for one of them to be willing to listen to this McClellan fella. Sorry, but I just don't believe he has any proof to back his claims.

[Grasshopper]

Just imagine the props a democratic congressman or senator would get for being the one to initiate such an investigation. They've been looking for a reason to give the Bush administration the old one-two since he got elected. Plus, they've suffered embarassment after embarassment since they took over the House with the promise of doing something to stop the Bush administration. All it would take is for one of them to be willing to listen to this McClellan fella. Sorry, but I just don't believe he has any proof to back his claims.

Only time will tell.

[Rico]

Only time will tell.

In the meantime who knows how much money this guy is making off this book. Sure sounds to me like he's trying to the right thing. NOT!

[Praxeas]

Duh.
Duh is right....ALL presidencies do this. But that does not mean the opposite of what they said is the truth. Katrina fault does not lie with Bush as much as it does with Nagin and the governer

[Grasshopper]

Just imagine the props a democratic congressman or senator would get for being the one to initiate such an investigation. They've been looking for a reason to give the Bush administration the old one-two since he got elected. Plus, they've suffered embarassment after embarassment since they took over the House with the promise of doing something to stop the Bush administration. All it would take is for one of them to be willing to listen to this McClellan fella. Sorry, but I just don't believe he has any proof to back his claims.

Only time will tell.

[Rico]

Only time will tell.

I am sure Ms. Pelosi would jump at the chance, seeing as how her rallying cry has been to stop this war. Her and her buddies tried cuttin off the purse strings and Bush put a whammy on that notion faster than it takes a frog to eat a fly. Yeah, the democrats want to give Bush some serious payback. McClellan has some proof and couldn't find any of them to run with it? Yeah, right! He did this for the money, plain and simple. Besides, anyone with half a brain knows a book written by the whistleblower who let Congress in on all the shenanigans going on at the White House, with the President heading up a conspiracy to lie to the American people about the reasons for going to war would sell a whole lot more copies than one written by some disgruntled knucklhead with an axe to grind who makes accusations without having any real proof. (try repeating that sentence 10 times rapidly :D)

[Grasshopper]

Rico,

Just because there's no proof right now doesn't mean things will not be revealed after the Administration is out. After the Bush Administration is out many things will be reviewed, disclosed, declassified, and people from the Pentagon, CIA, and even a few very high officials who served the British government could come forward. Don't get all sure of anything yet, don't let your Bush loyalty get you into a place where Bush makes you look bad. Just give it time. We'll revisit this again once Bush is out of office and things start coming to light.

[Rico]

Rico,

Just because there's no proof right now doesn't mean things will not be revealed after the Administration is out. After the Bush Administration is out many things will be reviewed, disclosed, declassified, and people from the Pentagon, CIA, and even a few very high officials who served the British government could come forward. Don't get all sure of anything yet, don't let your Bush loyalty get you into a place where Bush makes you look bad. Just give it time. We'll revisit this again once Bush is out of office and things start coming to light.

It has nothing to do with Bush loyalty, GH. It does, however, have everything to do with common sense. The things I've said concerning the McClellan fella would be true regardless of who was in office. If any administration were to take this country to war based on lies and intentional deception of the American people, those in power from the opposing party would jump at the chance to expose that administration's lies.

[Pressing-On]

It has nothing to do with Bush loyalty, GH. It does, however, have everything to do with common sense. The things I've said concerning the McClellan fella would be true regardless of who was in office. If any administration were to take this country to war based on lies and intentional deception of the American people, those in power from the opposing part would jump at the chance to expose that administration's lies.

One thing McClellan is touting is that Bush should have stood by his word on firing anyone involved in the Plame leak would be fired from the Administration.

What he doesn't get right is that Bush said that anyone that was convicted of a crime would be fired and Rove was never charged with that crime.

[Aquila]

It has nothing to do with Bush loyalty, GH. It does, however, have everything to do with common sense. The things I've said concerning the McClellan fella would be true regardless of who was in office. If any administration were to take this country to war based on lies and intentional deception of the American people, those in power from the opposing party would jump at the chance to expose that administration's lies.

Ric

The political fallout would be too great because members in Congress from both parties authorized military action and participated in the rhetoric.

I think we're going to be shocked at what comes to light after this Administration leaves the White House.

[Aquila]

One thing McClellan is touting is that Bush should have stood by his word on firing anyone involved in the Plame leak would be fired from the Administration.

What he doesn't get right is that Bush said that anyone that was convicted of a crime would be fired and Rove was never charged with that crime.

Libby was convicted...and they're trying to get Rove under oath. Let's not count our chickens before they hatch.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jwI6JiNCR6GyR3pWwRbmPDyj17WA

[Rico]

Ric

The political fallout would be too great because members in Congress from both parties authorized military action and participated in the rhetoric.

I think we're going to be shocked at what comes to light after this Administration leaves the White House.

We probably won't know all the facts until we're both old and ready to head Home. Never could understand why people need to be afraid of the truth.

[Aquila]

Here's a candidate nobody's talking about:

http://baldwin2008.com/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DbQLmCa4dm4

[SOUNWORTHY]

Something to think about for you people who find fault with out Commander and Chief.

Jay Leno on President Bush (Surprising)




Jay Leno wrote this; it's the Jay Leno we don't often see....




As most of you know I am not a President Bush fan, nor have I ever been, but this is not about Bush, it is about us, as Americans, and it seems to hit the mark.


'The other day I was reading Newsweek magazine and came across some Poll data I found rather hard to believe. It must be true given the source, right?


The Newsweek poll alleges that 67 percent of Americans are unhappy with the direction the country is headed and 69 percent of the country is unhappy with the performance of the President.

In essence 2/3 of the citizenry just ain't happy and want a change. So being the knuckle dragger I am, I started thinking, 'What are we so unhappy about?''




A.. Is it that we have electricity and running water 24 hours a day, 7 Days a week?




B.. Is our unhappiness the result of having air conditioning in the summer and heating in the winter?




C.. Could it be that 95.4 percent of these unhappy folks have a job?




D. Maybe it is the ability to walk into a grocery store at any time and see more food in moments than Darfur has seen in the last year?




E.. Maybe it is the ability to drive our cars and trucks from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic Ocean without having to present identification papers as we move through each state?




F.. Or possibly the hundreds of clean and safe motels we would find along the way that can provide temporary shelter?




G.. I guess having thousands of restaurants with varying cuisine from around the world is just not good enough either.




H. Or could it be that when we wreck our car, emergency workers show up and provide services to help all and even send a helicopter to take you to the hospital.




I.. Perhaps you are one of the 70 percent of Americans who own a home.




J.. You may be upset with knowing that in the unfortunate case of a fire, a group of trained firefighters will appear in moments and use top notch equipment to extinguish the flames, thus saving you, your family, and your belongings.




K.. Or if, while at home watching one of your many flat screen TVs, a burglar or prowler intrudes, an officer equipped with a gun and a bullet-proof vest will come to defend you and your family against attack or loss.




L.. This all in the backdrop of a neighborhood free of bombs or militias raping and pillaging the residents. Neighborhoods where 90% of teenagers own cell phones and computers.




M.. How about the complete religious, social and political freedoms we enjoy that are the envy of everyone in the world?




Maybe that is what has 67% of you folks unhappy.




Fact is, we are the largest group of ungrateful, spoiled brats the world has ever seen. No wonder the world loves the U.S., yet has a great disdain for its citizens. They see us for what we are. The most blessed people in the world who do nothing but complain about what we don't have, and what we hate about the country instead of thanking the good Lord we live here.




I know, I know. What about the president who took us into war and has no plan to get us out? The president who has a measly 31 percent approval rating? Is this the same president who guided the nation in the dark days after 9/11? The president that cut taxes to bring an economy out of recession? Could this be the same guy who has been called every name in the book for succeeding in keeping all the spoiled ungrateful brats safe from terrorist attacks? The commander in chief of an all-volunteer army that is out there defending you and me?




Did you hear how bad the President is on the news or talk show? Did this news affect you so much, make you so unhappy you couldn't take a look around for yourself and see all the good things and be glad? Think about it......are you upset at the President because he actually caused you personal pain OR is it because the 'Media' told you he was failing to kiss your sorry ungrateful behind every day. Make no mistake about it.




The troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have volunteered to serve, and in many cases may have died for your freedom. There is currently no draft in this country. They didn't have to go. They are able to refuse to go and end up with either a ''general'' discharge, an 'other than honorable'' discharge or, worst case scenario, a ''dishonorable'' discharge after a few days in the brig.




So why then the flat-out discontentment in the minds of 69 percent of Americans?




Say what you want but I blame it on the media. If it bleeds it leads and they specialize in bad news. Everybody will watch a car crash with blood and guts. How many will watch kids selling lemonade at the corner? The media knows this and media outlets are for-profit corporations. They offer what sells, and when criticized, try to defend their actions by 'justifying' them in one way or another. Just ask why they tried to allow a murderer like OJ. Simpson to write a book about how he didn't kill his wife, but if he did he would have done it this way......Insane!





Turn off the TV, burn Newsweek, and use the New York Times for the bottom of your bird cage. Then start being grateful for all we have as country. There is exponentially more good than bad. We are among the most blessed people on Earth and should thank God several times a day, or at least be thankful and appreciative.' 'With hurricanes, tornados, fires out of control, mud slides, flooding, severe thunderstorms tearing up the country from one end to another, and with the threat of bird flu and terrorist attacks, 'Are we sure this is a good time to take God out of the Pledge of Allegiance?'

Jay Leno

[Aquila]

Something to think about for you people who find fault with out Commander and Chief.

Jay Leno on President Bush (Surprising)




Jay Leno wrote this; it's the Jay Leno we don't often see....




As most of you know I am not a President Bush fan, nor have I ever been, but this is not about Bush, it is about us, as Americans, and it seems to hit the mark.


'The other day I was reading Newsweek magazine and came across some Poll data I found rather hard to believe. It must be true given the source, right?


The Newsweek poll alleges that 67 percent of Americans are unhappy with the direction the country is headed and 69 percent of the country is unhappy with the performance of the President.

In essence 2/3 of the citizenry just ain't happy and want a change. So being the knuckle dragger I am, I started thinking, 'What are we so unhappy about?''




A.. Is it that we have electricity and running water 24 hours a day, 7 Days a week?




B.. Is our unhappiness the result of having air conditioning in the summer and heating in the winter?




C.. Could it be that 95.4 percent of these unhappy folks have a job?




D. Maybe it is the ability to walk into a grocery store at any time and see more food in moments than Darfur has seen in the last year?




E.. Maybe it is the ability to drive our cars and trucks from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic Ocean without having to present identification papers as we move through each state?




F.. Or possibly the hundreds of clean and safe motels we would find along the way that can provide temporary shelter?




G.. I guess having thousands of restaurants with varying cuisine from around the world is just not good enough either.




H. Or could it be that when we wreck our car, emergency workers show up and provide services to help all and even send a helicopter to take you to the hospital.




I.. Perhaps you are one of the 70 percent of Americans who own a home.




J.. You may be upset with knowing that in the unfortunate case of a fire, a group of trained firefighters will appear in moments and use top notch equipment to extinguish the flames, thus saving you, your family, and your belongings.




K.. Or if, while at home watching one of your many flat screen TVs, a burglar or prowler intrudes, an officer equipped with a gun and a bullet-proof vest will come to defend you and your family against attack or loss.




L.. This all in the backdrop of a neighborhood free of bombs or militias raping and pillaging the residents. Neighborhoods where 90% of teenagers own cell phones and computers.




M.. How about the complete religious, social and political freedoms we enjoy that are the envy of everyone in the world?




Maybe that is what has 67% of you folks unhappy.




Fact is, we are the largest group of ungrateful, spoiled brats the world has ever seen. No wonder the world loves the U.S., yet has a great disdain for its citizens. They see us for what we are. The most blessed people in the world who do nothing but complain about what we don't have, and what we hate about the country instead of thanking the good Lord we live here.




I know, I know. What about the president who took us into war and has no plan to get us out? The president who has a measly 31 percent approval rating? Is this the same president who guided the nation in the dark days after 9/11? The president that cut taxes to bring an economy out of recession? Could this be the same guy who has been called every name in the book for succeeding in keeping all the spoiled ungrateful brats safe from terrorist attacks? The commander in chief of an all-volunteer army that is out there defending you and me?




Did you hear how bad the President is on the news or talk show? Did this news affect you so much, make you so unhappy you couldn't take a look around for yourself and see all the good things and be glad? Think about it......are you upset at the President because he actually caused you personal pain OR is it because the 'Media' told you he was failing to kiss your sorry ungrateful behind every day. Make no mistake about it.




The troops in Iraq and Afghanistan have volunteered to serve, and in many cases may have died for your freedom. There is currently no draft in this country. They didn't have to go. They are able to refuse to go and end up with either a ''general'' discharge, an 'other than honorable'' discharge or, worst case scenario, a ''dishonorable'' discharge after a few days in the brig.




So why then the flat-out discontentment in the minds of 69 percent of Americans?




Say what you want but I blame it on the media. If it bleeds it leads and they specialize in bad news. Everybody will watch a car crash with blood and guts. How many will watch kids selling lemonade at the corner? The media knows this and media outlets are for-profit corporations. They offer what sells, and when criticized, try to defend their actions by 'justifying' them in one way or another. Just ask why they tried to allow a murderer like OJ. Simpson to write a book about how he didn't kill his wife, but if he did he would have done it this way......Insane!





Turn off the TV, burn Newsweek, and use the New York Times for the bottom of your bird cage. Then start being grateful for all we have as country. There is exponentially more good than bad. We are among the most blessed people on Earth and should thank God several times a day, or at least be thankful and appreciative.' 'With hurricanes, tornados, fires out of control, mud slides, flooding, severe thunderstorms tearing up the country from one end to another, and with the threat of bird flu and terrorist attacks, 'Are we sure this is a good time to take God out of the Pledge of Allegiance?'

Jay Leno

More lies.

Jay Leno never wrote this. And it's a blatant simplification of the complex issues we're facing.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/soapbox/hitnail.asp

When will the lies and distortions end?

[SOUNWORTHY]

You are correct, L. Leno didn't say all of it Craig Smith did. Either way I agree 100%. I said it before in another post. Too many Americans are only concerned with what the government can do to line their pockets with more benifets. There are only a few on here who are regular Bush bashers. I wonder haoe many of you are vertans of any conflict.

[DividedThigh]

mcclellan is a disgrunt who didnt have a job and needed money, has no hard proof of anything he says , and no creds, enough said, dt

[Aquila]

You are correct, L. Leno didn't say all of it Craig Smith did. Either way I agree 100%. I said it before in another post. Too many Americans are only concerned with what the government can do to line their pockets with more benifets. There are only a few on here who are regular Bush bashers. I wonder haoe many of you are vertans of any conflict.

I can only speak for myself, I served peace time. I value our fighting forces. I don’t believe we should be engaged in a war of choice. Our soldiers are not meaningless pawns to waste on a globalist agenda. As we speak our boys are dying to enforce a UN resolution, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. We need to pull out of the UN and stop being the UN’s global enforcer. We need to pull our boys out and tell the UN, “Fight your own war.” But Bush doesn’t have those kind of guts…Bush is another globalist like his father. And the way we’re treating our troops who are coming home needs some work too.

[Aquila]

mcclellan is a disgrunt who didnt have a job and needed money, has no hard proof of anything he says , and no creds, enough said, dt

Let's all sing...

"Everything is beautiful..."

We'll see what happens when it's all said and done. It's far from over. I vote with what was said above, give it time.

[Aquila]

Real conservatives will vote for the only real conservative running, Chuck Baldwin. Phonies and globalists will vote McCain.

http://baldwin2008.com/

[DividedThigh]

i like the email that came out this morning that bob dole sent him, that sums it up for me, i saw him on meet the depressed yesterday, not impressed, dt

[chosenbyone]

mcclellan is a disgrunt who didnt have a job and needed money, has no hard proof of anything he says , and no creds, enough said, dt

Don't you find it more than a little peculiar that the Bush Administration has gone after McClellan's character versus the misinformation and lies that he wrote in his book?

If McClellan wrote the lies that have been alleged by Bush and his staff and given the already poor public opinion of him, there should be little doubt that McClellan's work would be systematically torn to shreds by Bush's team.

The character assignation that has flooded the airwaves since the release of the book has been lock and step with how this administration has handled similar situations in the past. ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACH the individual instead of presenting evidence to support their arguement.

McClellan will no doubt need the $75,000 that was paid to him by the publisher of his book given that it will be very difficult to go forward with a career. Remember, he has a family and he is under 40, so he has many more years to find work to support himself and his love ones.

[Pressing-On]

Libby was convicted...and they're trying to get Rove under oath. Let's not count our chickens before they hatch.

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jwI6JiNCR6GyR3pWwRbmPDyj17WA

This isn't even regarding Plame. It's about "Democratic" Gov. Don Siegelman and the White House firing of nine U.S attorneys, which isn't a big deal.

He'll probably get executive privilege and that will be the end of it.

Politics and revenge in an election year.

[DividedThigh]

Don't you find it more than a little peculiar that the Bush Administration has gone after McClellan's character versus the misinformation and lies that he wrote in his book?

If McClellan wrote the lies that have been alleged by Bush and his staff and given the already poor public opinion of him, there should be little doubt that McClellan's work would be systematically torn to shreds by Bush's team.

The character assignation that has flooded the airwaves since the release of the book has been lock and step with how this administration has handled similar situations in the past. ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACH the individual instead of presenting evidence to support their arguement.

McClellan will no doubt need the $75,000 that was paid to him by the publisher of his book given that it will be very difficult to go forward with a career. Remember, he has a family and he is under 40, so he has many more years to find work to support himself and his love ones.

believe what you want to believe chosen, i dont believe him, dt

[chosenbyone]

believe what you want to believe chosen, i dont believe him, dt

That's what makes America so great!!! We can express our vastly different opinions without being persecuted or jailed. God bless America!

BTW, I am still voting for Ron Paul this November!

[Aquila]

believe what you want to believe chosen, i dont believe him, dt

A lot of people will look real idiotic once Bush is gone and everyone, including some leading Republicans, disassociate themselves by revealing the corruption behind the scenes. The American people are pretty forgiving to people who "fess up". Let's see what happens when Bush doesn't have the power to attack and destroy all who come against him.

How will you deal with this dt?

[Aquila]

That's what makes America so great!!! We can express our vastly different opinions without being persecuted or jailed. God bless America!

BTW, I am still voting for Ron Paul this November!

Paul still running?

[Pressing-On]

Don't you find it more than a little peculiar that the Bush Administration has gone after McClellan's character versus the misinformation and lies that he wrote in his book?

If McClellan wrote the lies that have been alleged by Bush and his staff and given the already poor public opinion of him, there should be little doubt that McClellan's work would be systematically torn to shreds by Bush's team.

The character assignation that has flooded the airwaves since the release of the book has been lock and step with how this administration has handled similar situations in the past. ATTACK, ATTACK, ATTACH the individual instead of presenting evidence to support their arguement.

McClellan will no doubt need the $75,000 that was paid to him by the publisher of his book given that it will be very difficult to go forward with a career. Remember, he has a family and he is under 40, so he has many more years to find work to support himself and his love ones.

The thing is McClellan omits Armitage giving Plames' identity to Bob Woodward at the Washington Post. He doesn't even mention that Armitage turned himself in to the Justice Department before Fitzgerald was named the special prosecutor. He also ignores Patrick Fitzgerald's long, expensive investigation that found no violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.

This is why many believe the book is out of bitterness and was tweaked by the editors.

He is reeking of bitterness, mainly, because he knew people viewed him as unqualified and just a loyalist from Texas, which is probably true. He was ousted because he was unqualified plain and simple. His mother is even reported as saying that he would fight back. Sounds just like her. lol

[Aquila]

The thing is McClellan omits Armitage giving Plames' identity to Bob Woodward at the Washington Post. He doesn't even mention that Armitage turned himself in to the Justice Department before Fitzgerald was named the special prosecutor. He also ignores Patrick Fitzgerald's long, expensive investigation that found no violation of the Intelligence Identities Protection Act.

This is why many believe the book is out of bitterness and was tweaked by the editors.

He is reeking of bitterness, mainly, because he knew people viewed him as unqualified and just a loyalist from Texas, which is probably true. He was ousted because he was unqualified plain and simple. His mother is even reported as saying that he would fight back. Sounds just like her. lol

Have you read the book?

[Pressing-On]

Have you read the book?

I've read several reviews by people I respect. And incidentally, the above information that I posted is pretty much common knowledge, although I think some may have forgotten about it.

[Aquila]

McClellan is obviously reporting what happened as he sees it looking back at his experience with the administration.

He's not telling us anything we really don't already know. This administration is filled with mass corruption. We'll know more when their out of office. And those who defended them should be viewed as being of like spirits.

[Aquila]

I've read several reviews by people I respect. And incidentally, the above information that I posted is pretty much common knowledge, although I think some may have forgotten about it.

Well, well, well. That settles it. :lol

We'll see what happens when Pentagon officials, advisers, CIA officers, embassadors, congressmen, and others who have been silent for fear of being politically destroyed feel safe enough to speak out.

[Aquila]

Pressing....you seem to think the issue is settled. Just wait. You'll look real silly after all is said and done. I think it will prove many around here don't have the judgment to babysit a gold fish. I think that if this administration is proven to be as corrupt as I believe we'll find out....those who supported them should be legally declared too blind to legally vote again. :lol

[DividedThigh]

A lot of people will look real idiotic once Bush is gone and everyone, including some leading Republicans, disassociate themselves by revealing the corruption behind the scenes. The American people are pretty forgiving to people who "fess up". Let's see what happens when Bush doesn't have the power to attack and destroy all who come against him.

How will you deal with this dt?

lets see i will live my life, and laugh, love and be happy, how bout you, dt

[Pressing-On]

Well, well, well. That settles it. :lol

We'll see what happens when Pentagon officials, advisers, CIA officers, embassadors, congressmen, and others who have been silent for fear of being politically destroyed feel safe enough to speak out.

Pressing....you seem to think the issue is settled. Just wait. You'll look real silly after all is said and done. I think it will prove many around here don't have the judgment to babysit a gold fish. I think that if this administration is proven to be as corrupt as I believe we'll find out....those who supported them should be legally declared too blind to legally vote again. :lol

LOL! We shall see. I've watched the thing closely as it has unfolded, so nothing here is new news to me. I've watched McClellan as spokesman for the Bush Administration and I wondered why they had chosen him in the first place. So, really, I was on board with his "unqualified" a long time ago. :D

[Aquila]

lets see i will live my life, and laugh, love and be happy, how bout you, dt

Of course you will...

You won't feel a bit foolish?

[Aquila]

LOL! We shall see. I've watched the thing closely as it has unfolded, so nothing here is new news to me. I've watched McClellan as spokesman for the Bush Administration and I wondered why they had chosen him in the first place. So, really, I was on board with his "unqualified" a long time ago. :D

We're just going to have to find out. But trust me...I'll make sure you're reminded of all this if it all goes down like I think it will.

[Pressing-On]

We're just going to have to find out. But trust me...I'll make sure you're reminded of all this if it all goes down like I think it will.

Great. Thanks!!! If something is amiss, then I think it should be dealt with. I just think it's "political theatre". Everyone knows the Democrats have been out to get Rove and are determined to crush him. That is not new information either.

Look what they tried to do to Kay Bailey Hutchinson. She fought it and won. Good for her!

[Aquila]

Everything is political theatre. ;)

[chosenbyone]

LOL! We shall see. I've watched the thing closely as it has unfolded, so nothing here is new news to me. I've watched McClellan as spokesman for the Bush Administration and I wondered why they had chosen him in the first place. So, really, I was on board with his "unqualified" a long time ago. :D

PO,

My dear and precious friend. May I suggest that you step out from the middle of the spin zone created by Fox News and the conservative radio personalities and be the objective person that you are?!

I know that you have been listening to folks from Limbaugh to Hannity in order to get an understanding of McClellan's motives; however, they and their cohorts have been tainted by their own motives to ever give anyone with a different opinion, story or idea a fair chance.

McClellan was only paid $75,000 for this book. People have called him greedy and made accusations that he was only looking at dollar signs when he wrote that book. Clearly, the evidence proved that it wasn't about the money.

I have sat and listened to him OBJECTIVELY and afterward I thought that since I had no proof to condemn the man of betraying the President and lying about things that he witnessed first hand and wrote in his book, then I was in no way going to say he lied and make other false accusations against him.

All those pundits and slick-tongued radio bullies have contributed to good people buying into their lies, which they have carefully formulated and manipulated to resemble truth. In other words, they have deceived many by repeating their lies over and over again that people started to believe the spin.

Actually, it was obvious to me that McClellan still cared a great deal for Bush, because each time he has been interviewed this past week he defended and stated that Bush was mislead by those he trusted in his administration.

[Pressing-On]

PO,

My dear and precious friend. May I suggest that you step out from the middle of the spin zone created by Fox News and the conservative radio personalities and be the objective person that you are?!

I know that you have been listening to folks from Limbaugh to Hannity in order to get an understanding of McClellan's motives; however, they and their cohorts have been tainted by their own motives to ever give anyone with a different opinion, story or idea a fair chance.

McClellan was only paid $75,000 for this book. People have called him greedy and made accusations that he was only looking at dollar signs when he wrote that book. Clearly, the evidence proved that it wasn't about the money.

I have sat and listened to him OBJECTIVELY and afterward I thought that since I had no proof to condemn the man of betraying the President and lying about things that he witnessed first hand and wrote in his book, then I was in no way going to say he lied and make other false accusations against him.

All those pundits and slick-tongued radio bullies have contributed to good people buying into their lies, which they have carefully formulated and manipulated to resemble truth. In other words, they have deceived many by repeating their lies over and over again that people started to believe the spin.

Actually, it was obvious to me that McClellan still cared a great deal for Bush, because each time he has been interviewed this past week he defended and stated that Bush was mislead by those he trusted in his administration.

I don't listen to Limbaugh and Hannity. :D

I've followed this story as research and it just looks like politics as usual. That's my take thus far.

Honestly, I don't see it as anything else.

I mean really - Janet Reno, simultaneously fired all 93 U.S. Attorneys in March 1993 under the Clinton Administration.

What's wrong with Bush firing 8? lol

[DividedThigh]

not at all just like you wont if you find out mclellan was just what i think he is, i think that is funny, what is said on this forum doesnt affect my life at all, i am here just for fun, not trying to change the world, i allready change the world every day by helping teach my step kids to be decent people, lol,dt

[chosenbyone]

I don't listen to Limbaugh and Hannity. :D

I've followed this story as research and it just looks like politics as usual. That's my take thus far.

Honestly, I don't see it as anything else.

I mean really - Janet Reno, simultaneously fired all 93 U.S. Attorneys in March 1993 under the Clinton Administration.

What wrong with Bush firing 8? lol

I hope you weren't offended by my previous post about where you get your information from, because clearly I was totally off on your source. Which gave me a little lead-in to mention how easy it was to make assumptions and believe they were the truth when in reality they were totally opposite than the truth.

McClellan's true intentions may have been the victim of many people's assumptions around the country. How could any of us really know this man's heart?

I am not Bush's or anyone else's judge or jury when it comes to matters such as the firing of federal employees. I am a firm believer in what my Maimaw use to say which was, "Whatever you do in the dark, will come to light". Besides, if some of the other allegations turn out to be true regarding Bush and some of his staff then the firing of those employees would fade in comparison, IMO. They will all be dealt with one way or another in time.

My prayer for today is let there peace on earth and let it begin with me....and then PO. :hanky

[chosenbyone]

By the way, I have to walk away from this pleasant exchange before I break a promise.

May God's blessings and joy be overflowing in your lives.

[Pressing-On]

I hope you weren't offended by my previous post about where you get your information from, because clearly I was totally off on your source. Which gave me a little lead-in to mention how easy it was to make assumptions and believe they were the truth when in reality they were totally opposite than the truth.

McClellan's true intentions may have been the victim of many people's assumptions around the country. How could any of us really know this man's heart?

I am not Bush's or anyone else's judge or jury when it comes to matters such as the firing of federal employees. I am a firm believer in what my Maimaw use to say which was, "Whatever you do in the dark, will come to light". Besides, if some of the other allegations turn out to be true regarding Bush and some of his staff then the firing of those employees would fade in comparison, IMO. They will all be dealt with one way or another in time.

My prayer for today is let there peace on earth and let it begin with me....and then PO. :hanky

I wasn't offended in the least. I normally check my sources before I post. lol

And we will have peace as long as you agree with me. :happydance

Just kidding!!!!!

I'm out too. Supposed to be working today!! lol

[SOUNWORTHY]

A lot of people will look real idiotic once Bush is gone .



Finally you said something I agree with , but I think it may be those who are voting for the extremely liberal big change character.

Show me a person who is liberal in his political thinking and I'll show you a person who is liberal in his walk with Christ. :tissue

[Aquila]

PO,

My dear and precious friend. May I suggest that you step out from the middle of the spin zone created by Fox News and the conservative radio personalities and be the objective person that you are?!

I know that you have been listening to folks from Limbaugh to Hannity in order to get an understanding of McClellan's motives; however, they and their cohorts have been tainted by their own motives to ever give anyone with a different opinion, story or idea a fair chance.

McClellan was only paid $75,000 for this book. People have called him greedy and made accusations that he was only looking at dollar signs when he wrote that book. Clearly, the evidence proved that it wasn't about the money.

I have sat and listened to him OBJECTIVELY and afterward I thought that since I had no proof to condemn the man of betraying the President and lying about things that he witnessed first hand and wrote in his book, then I was in no way going to say he lied and make other false accusations against him.

All those pundits and slick-tongued radio bullies have contributed to good people buying into their lies, which they have carefully formulated and manipulated to resemble truth. In other words, they have deceived many by repeating their lies over and over again that people started to believe the spin.

Actually, it was obvious to me that McClellan still cared a great deal for Bush, because each time he has been interviewed this past week he defended and stated that Bush was mislead by those he trusted in his administration.

I believe that since we'll give an account for every idle word...those who repeat the lies of the "radio bullies" are going to be found in a very sad state before the Lord. Same for those who do not take caution regarding the liberals and their propaganda. The best position is to wait and find out.

[Aquila]

Finally you said something I agree with , but I think it may be those who are voting for the extremely liberal big change character.

Show me a person who is liberal in his political thinking and I'll show you a person who is liberal in his walk with Christ. :tissue

Anyone voting for either of the two leading parties in America are compromising their Christianity. Both parities lie and extort. Both parties are morally bankrupt. Both parties are guilty of grave sins against God.

The only true "Christian response" is to give this world's politics to this world and we live entirely kingdom minded. We don't need the lying and corrupt Republicans or the shreaking, liberal Democrats.

We do best to focus entirely on the Kingdom of God and call both parties on their sins. But most Christians don't have the guts. They worship one of the two parties.

[chosenbyone]

I wasn't offended in the least. I normally check my sources before I post. lol

And we will have peace as long as you agree with me. :happydance

Just kidding!!!!!

I'm out too. Supposed to be working today!! lol

When I stated that I had to excuse myself from this thread it wasn't because I had to go do something else, it was because I had made a promise to avoid arguing about politics. I thought that if I were to stick around, it may have ended up with you posting videos and articles bashing Obama and me doing the same with McCain.

BTW, have you heard? I don't support Obama, McCain or Clinton...I decided to stick with my original choice for President - Ron Paul! I know that you may view my voting for Paul as a throw away vote, but I firmly believe he would make a far better leader than the other three. :running:

[Aquila]

When I stated that I had to excuse myself from this thread it wasn't because I had to go do something else, it was because I had made a promise to avoid arguing about politics. I thought that if I were to stick around, it may have ended up with you posting videos and articles bashing Obama and me doing the same with McCain.

BTW, have you heard? I don't support Obama, McCain or Clinton...I decided to stick with my original choice for President - Ron Paul! I know that you may view my voting for Paul as a throw away vote, but I believe he would make a far better leader than the other three. :running:

The fact is I don’t think any candidate is uniquely Christian. The thing to consider is each individual’s policies and how they affect you and your family. I’m thinking about voting Constitution Party, Chuck Baldwin. But Baldwin stands no realistic chance of winning. Out of the two contenders Obama’s policies will be far better for my family than McCain’s. We have this tendency of saying, “If you don’t vote like me, you’re not a Christian.” I think that’s childish. We have to know the policies, the actual policies, how they will effect us, and vote for whose policies will best serve our families. Most Christians only think about two issues and don’t have a clue if that candidate’s actual policies will throw their family under the bus or something.

[Pressing-On]

When I stated that I had to excuse myself from this thread it wasn't because I had to go do something else, it was because I had made a promise to avoid arguing about politics. I thought that if I were to stick around, it may have ended up with you posting videos and articles bashing Obama and me doing the same with McCain.

BTW, have you heard? I don't support Obama, McCain or Clinton...I decided to stick with my original choice for President - Ron Paul! I know that you may view my voting for Paul as a throw away vote, but I firmly believe he would make a far better leader than the other three. :running:

I didn't agree with all of Ron Paul on foreign policy, so I couldn't have voted for him. I've met and talked with him in person and he is a wonderful and attentive gentleman. He would have made a grand president, but people are worried about security, which BTW, is something Obama nor Clinton can bring.

And you are right - it's best not to post politics if you argue about it. Religion, also, for that matter. lol

[Pressing-On]

The fact is I don’t think any candidate is uniquely Christian. The thing to consider is each individual’s policies and how they affect you and your family. I’m thinking about voting Constitution Party, Chuck Baldwin. But Baldwin stands no realistic chance of winning. Out of the two contenders Obama’s policies will be far better for my family than McCain’s. We have this tendency of saying, “If you don’t vote like me, you’re not a Christian.” I think that’s childish. We have to know the policies, the actual policies, how they will effect us, and vote for whose policies will best serve our families. Most Christians only think about two issues and don’t have a clue if that candidate’s actual policies will throw their family under the bus or something.

I'm voting for a President not a pastor. :D

[Aquila]

I didn't agree with all of Ron Paul on foreign policy, so I couldn't have voted for him. I've met and talked with him in person and he is a wonderful and attentive gentleman. He would have made a grand president, but people are worried about security, which BTW, is something Obama nor Clinton can bring.

And you are right - it's best not to post politics if you argue about it. Religion, also, for that matter. lol

Don't tell me, you think the US should police the planet?

[Aquila]

I'm voting for a President not a pastor. :D

Amen. We vote for the man who we think has the best policies and move on hoping they will do their best and not cause too much damage. Democrat or Republican....neither is more righteous than the other. And sadly, while the Republicans appear to stand for things I believe in on paper, they don't act on any of those beliefs.

[Pressing-On]

Don't tell me, you think the US should police the planet?

How can you ask that when you know countries depend on the USA to bail them out?

Anyway, had fun posting, but I am log overdue on posting today!

Gotta run!

[DividedThigh]

press, dont do it, some of these guys think we can talk the muslims into peace, they dont get it, but you keep tryin, dt

[chosenbyone]

I didn't agree with all of Ron Paul on foreign policy, so I couldn't have voted for him. I've met and talked with him in person and he is a wonderful and attentive gentleman. He would have made a grand president, but people are worried about security, which BTW, is something Obama nor Clinton can bring.

And you are right - it's best not to post politics if you argue about it. Religion, also, for that matter. lol

You crack my up! When I read this post, I was reminded of the all the times you would get so riled up here while discussing politics (and religion too for that matter). Oh, by the way, I noticed your dig up there about Obama and Clinton, but I wouldn't have taken that as you trying to bait me for some showdown over who was the better Presidential candidate like I have seen you do with others, so don't worry.

Have a great evening!

[Pressing-On]

press, dont do it, some of these guys think we can talk the muslims into peace, they dont get it, but you keep tryin, dt
I didn't quite understand what you were conveying, here DT.

I don't believe in dialoguing with rogue nations. It makes us seem weak and we don't want that. It's a diplomatic stance that every country's rulers understand. Sanctions is our strong no-talk diplomacy.

[DividedThigh]

I didn't quite understand what you were conveying, here DT.

I don't believe in dialoguing with rogue nations. It makes us seem weak and we don't want that. It's a diplomatic stance that every country's rulers understand. Sanctions is our strong no-talk diplomacy.

i was funnin press, the libs think we can talk these people out of hating us and wanting to kill us, it wont work and they dont get it, be cool sis, dt

[Pressing-On]

You crack my up! When I read this post, I was reminded of the all the times you would get so riled up here while discussing politics (and religion too for that matter). Oh, by the way, I noticed your dig up there about Obama and Clinton, but I wouldn't have taken that as you trying to bait me for some showdown over who was the better Presidential candidate like I have seen you do with others, so don't worry.

Have a great evening!

I didn't consider that a dig. It was my opinion about them on foreign policy.

I don't recall becoming riled up about politics, but I do remember becoming riled up on religion. :D

[Pressing-On]

i was funnin press, the libs think we can talk these people out of hating us and wanting to kill us, it wont work and they dont get it, be cool sis, dt
Isn't that funny how McCain points out that Obama is criticizing Iraq, but hasn't visited in two years? NOW, Obama is scheduling going this summer and when will that be? - when he needs the polls to reflect a higher rating for him and especially before August! :toofunny

[DividedThigh]

Isn't that funny how McCain points out that Obama is criticizing Iraq, but hasn't visited in two years? NOW, Obama is scheduling going this summer and when will that be? - when he needs the polls to reflect a higher rating for him and especially before August! :toofunny

but of course, lol,dt

[Aquila]

press, dont do it, some of these guys think we can talk the muslims into peace, they dont get it, but you keep tryin, dt

Nobody is going to convince radical Islamic extremists to like us. These extremists use inflammatory rhetoric and propaganda to inflame the citizens of the Middle East. This causes considerable social destabilization in many countries. More moderate Islamic nations need to be courted by the U.S. and we need to help them realize that we’re looking out for their survival. For example Islamic extremists would love to destabilize and take over the more moderate nation of Jordan. We do well to talk to Jordan and strengthen ties with them. This will both protect our interests and protect the governments that are moderate from falling into radical Islamic hands.

You can’t broker peace or build a case for war unless talks have been conducted. Standards of Just War require talking and diplomacy before the last resort of war is used.

[Aquila]

Isn't that funny how McCain points out that Obama is criticizing Iraq, but hasn't visited in two years? NOW, Obama is scheduling going this summer and when will that be? - when he needs the polls to reflect a higher rating for him and especially before August! :toofunny

We should be reminded that McCain was caught in a series of lies about his Iraq visit.

[Aquila]

I think Bush had really hurt McCain's chances of winning. If Obama becomes President...thank Bush. :lol

[SOUNWORTHY]

I think Bush had really hurt McCain's chances of winning. If Obama becomes President...thank Bush. :lol

We had a Tornado in Missouri a couple weeks ago, thank Bush for that too. :)

[Rico]

I can only speak for myself, I served peace time. I value our fighting forces. I don’t believe we should be engaged in a war of choice. Our soldiers are not meaningless pawns to waste on a globalist agenda. As we speak our boys are dying to enforce a UN resolution, Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. We need to pull out of the UN and stop being the UN’s global enforcer. We need to pull our boys out and tell the UN, “Fight your own war.” But Bush doesn’t have those kind of guts…Bush is another globalist like his father. And the way we’re treating our troops who are coming home needs some work too.

The reality is that, with or without the United States, there is going to be a United Nations. As tough as the USA is, we still do not have the ability to take on the whole world at once. If there is going to be a UN, then we need to be involved and in control of as much of it as we can.

[SOUNWORTHY]

But not the way Clinton involved our Military with the UN.

[Pressing-On]

We should be reminded that McCain was caught in a series of lies about his Iraq visit.

If you are talking about the NOT wearing of body armour, I heard the same information, a couple of days ago, involving other military personal who didn't wear body armour every time they go out. It was a solider being interviewed.

AND

If you are talking about the Humvees not having armour plates that is also true. I personally know someone that works on getting these out to be shipped and they said that not all of them have the armour plates, but they are trying to get them all equipped.

On the pre-surge numbers. I don't have my facts on that.

Found the point made and am adding it here. 3 of the 5 brigades that were involved in the pre-surge are heading back to the US.The remaining two will be back by July. That didn't bring down the number of troops in Iraq from pre-surge. though. So, apparently McCain is focusing on the brigades and not the numbers.

There is one thing to remember about this - McCain stood on the side of the surge when it was not a popular thing to do politically and it was effective. So, even though the attention was diverted to numbers and not how many brigades he knows what he is doing militarily.

[chosenbyone]

If you are talking about the NOT wearing of body armour, I heard the same information, a couple of days ago, involving other military personal who didn't wear body armour every time they go out. It was a solider being interviewed.

AND

If you are talking about the Humvees not having armour plates that is also true. I personally know someone that works on getting these out to be shipped and they said that not all of them have the armour plates, but they are trying to get them all equipped.

On the pre-surge numbers. I don't have my facts on that.

Found the point made and am adding it here. 3 of the 5 brigades that were involved in the pre-surge are heading back to the US.The remaining two will be back by July. That didn't bring down the number of troops in Iraq from pre-surge. though. So, apparently McCain is focusing on the brigades and not the numbers.

There is one thing to remember about this - McCain stood on the side of the surge when it was not a popular thing to do politically and it was effective. So, even though the attention was diverted to numbers and not how many brigades he knows what he is doing militarily.

PO,

Here was a perfect example of how one could be influenced by the spin doctors that McCain was the man needed for continued success in Iraq. He has made several gaffes in the last few months that Fox News didn't cover in their evening news.

Here are a few videos showing McCain doesn't have a clear grasp on the facts or perhaps his age. Perhaps, he is too old to be our President? That doesn't mean he isn't a great American...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jkfM7z0-Vdg

Please note that during that trip to the Middle East, it was noted that he "misspoke" a total of three times regarding Iran and Al Queda

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UMmbtlRBiCM

He claimed that we had drawn down 3 out of the 5 brigades in Iraq (pre-surge levels), which the facts would indicate that wasn't the truth. It gave the impression that he doesn't have a clue of what really is going on with our troop level in Iraq.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zk8H63GMMRU&feature=related

Here he was spinning the truth and stating that Mosul was quit when in fact on that day, 5/29/08, there was a car bomb that killed 16 people. The surge hasn't been the success story that he and others have wanted the American public to know....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c6kzCR07PQ

More spin....

I'll be able to provide more proof that McCain doesn't have a grip on the reality of the situation on the ground in Iraq.

[Pressing-On]

PO,

Here was a perfect example of how one could be influenced by the spin doctors that McCain was the man needed for continued success in Iraq. He has made several gaffes in the last few months that Fox News didn't cover in their evening news.

Here are a few videos showing McCain doesn't have a clear grasp on the facts or perhaps his age. Perhaps, he is too old to be our President? That doesn't mean he isn't a great American...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jkfM7z0-Vdg

Please note that during that trip to the Middle East, it was noted that he "misspoke" a total of three times regarding Iran and Al Queda

http://youtube.com/watch?v=UMmbtlRBiCM

He claimed that we had drawn down 3 out of the 5 brigades in Iraq (pre-surge levels), which the facts would indicate that wasn't the truth. It gave the impression that he doesn't have a clue of what really is going on with our troop level in Iraq.


http://youtube.com/watch?v=Zk8H63GMMRU&feature=related

Here he was spinning the truth and stating that Mosul was quit when in fact on that day, 5/29/08, there was a car bomb that killed 16 people. The surge hasn't been the success story that he and others have wanted the American public to know....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9c6kzCR07PQ

More spin....

I'll be able to provide more proof that McCain doesn't have a grip on the reality of the situation on the ground in Iraq.
Thanks for the clips. From my research I see that McCain is not lying and the media is making it seem that he is. My above post references all of the points made in the ridiculous video clips. That is a good example of "spinning" to me.

I don't check my sources on YouTube, but if the clips check out with facts from other sources, I will post a clip from that site.

His mistake on Al-Qaeda in Iran was just a minor mistake. Anyone could accidentally say Al-Qaeda. Why? Because Al-Qaeda is who we went after at the start of the war.

Thanks and nice try. I'm not buying it.

McCain is saying they are drawing down as sources say that all five brigades that went into the surge will be home in July. The 4th is on it's way and the 5th will be home in July. That is a drawing down and not a lie. The media totally spun that for all it's worth. He isn't going to say he misspoke because he didn't. The brigades are coming home and that is a drawing down.

I have a relative that works at Ft Erwin in California who is responsible for getting the Humvees ready for transport. He said that they have not all had metal plates and were using sand bags for protection.

Also, I watched a solider being interviewed a couple of days ago who said they don't always wear their armour when out in the streets. So, I will believe all of these things I have checked and heard reported by sources I view as reliable.

[Aquila]

The reality is that, with or without the United States, there is going to be a United Nations. As tough as the USA is, we still do not have the ability to take on the whole world at once. If there is going to be a UN, then we need to be involved and in control of as much of it as we can.

Here's an example of how conservatism has been hijacked by the neocon globalists. Conservatives have consistently voiced how the United States shouldn't be part of a global socialist organization. But NOW conservatives have been conditioned to think like the globalists. Notice also the "take on the world" notions of subconscious fascism. Conservatives don't want to take on the world and don't think the US should. Conservatives simply believe that the US is best being...the US, not the global empire.

[Aquila]

http://therealmccain.com/

[chosenbyone]

Thanks for the clips. From my research I see that McCain is not lying and the media is making it seem that he is. My above post references all of the points made in the ridiculous video clips. That is a good example of "spinning" to me.

I don't check my sources on YouTube, but if the clips check out with facts from other sources, I will post a clip from that site.

His mistake on Al-Qaeda in Iran was just a minor mistake. Anyone could accidentally say Al-Qaeda. Why? Because Al-Qaeda is who we went after at the start of the war.

Thanks and nice try. I'm not buying it.

McCain is saying they are drawing down as sources say that all five brigades that went into the surge will be home in July. The 4th is on it's way and the 5th will be home in July. That is a drawing down and not a lie. The media totally spun that for all it's worth. He isn't going to say he misspoke because he didn't. The brigades are coming home and that is a drawing down.

I have a relative that works at Ft Erwin in California who is responsible for getting the Humvees ready for transport. He said that they have not all had metal plates and were using sand bags for protection.

Also, I watched a solider being interviewed a couple of days ago who said they don't always wear their armour when out in the streets. So, I will believe all of these things I have checked and heard reported by sources I view as reliable.

Well, sister, I have always appreciated your spunk when you have discussed your arbitrary opinions of McCain. I simply wanted to share with you that there were many, many sources of information where you could draw from in order to have all the facts when forming an opinion on McCain.

BTW, you are one of my top 5 favorite posters here on AFF. Please don't change the "straight talk" approach that you've adopted here on AFF.

Go, Ron Paul 2008!

[chosenbyone]

http://therealmccain.com/

That is a great website! I have visited it many times these last few months.

[Pressing-On]

Well, sister, I have always appreciated your spunk when you have discussed your arbitrary opinions of McCain. I simply wanted to share with you that there were many, many sources of information where you could draw from in order to have all the facts when forming an opinion on McCain.

BTW, you are one of my top 5 favorite posters here on AFF. Please don't change the "straight talk" approach that you've adopted here on AFF.

Go, Ron Paul 2008!

Thank you for the compliments. I must be spunky and say that I think your word choice of "arbitrary" opinions was rude and uncalled for in this discussion.

If I pointed out anything I did not agree with in your posts I did not articulate that toward your character but subject matter.

I see no point in dialoguing with you on politics. I also don't go to Micheal Moore type links for my information or points to be made.

[Aquila]

Thank you for the compliments. I must be spunky and say that I think your word choice of "arbitrary" opinions was rude and uncalled for in this discussion.

If I pointed out anything I did not agree with in your posts I did not articulate that toward your character but subject matter.

I see no point in dialoguing with you on politics. I also don't go to Micheal Moore type links for my information or points to be made.

I enjoy looking at the facts from both sides...and then checking them out. Not everything on the left is wrong. You can always tell an idiologue because their side is "always" right.

[chosenbyone]

I enjoy looking at the facts from both sides...and then checking them out. Not everything on the left is wrong. You can always tell an idiologue because their side is "always" right.

My comment on the post yesterday about PO's "arbitrary" opinions were said TIC, because it was evident that she researched her facts thoroughly. Unfortunately, she couldn't see I was jesting and took offense, which I apologized to her via PM.

She didn't deserve to get her feelings hurt then and certainly not this morning. The ideologue comment was off color, but perhaps it was TIC too....hopefully.

Next time, one of these :tic would alleviate any hurt feelings that might occur from an attempt at humor.

[Pressing-On]

My comment on the post yesterday about PO's "arbitrary" opinions were said TIC, because it was evident that she researched her facts thoroughly. Unfortunately, she couldn't see I was jesting and took offense, which I apologized to her via PM.

She didn't deserve to get her feelings hurt then and certainly not this morning. The ideologue comment was off color, but perhaps it was TIC too....hopefully.

Next time, one of these :tic would alleviate any hurt feelings that might occur from an attempt at humor.
I accept your apology and I offer one if I misunderstood the intent of your post.

God Bless,

[DividedThigh]

some people just aint funny, hard to read the humor into accusing and trite remarks, my opinon of course, dt

[SOUNWORTHY]

Thank you for the compliments. I must be spunky and say that I think your word choice of "arbitrary" opinions was rude and uncalled for in this discussion.

If I pointed out anything I did not agree with in your posts I did not articulate that toward your character but subject matter.

I see no point in dialoguing with you on politics. I also don't go to Micheal Moore type links for my information or points to be made.

PO, hang in there, the battle's not over yet. I feel there were good men who could have run on the Republican ticket but didn't so we have to go with what we have and pray for the best.

[Pressing-On]

PO, hang in there, the battle's not over yet. I feel there were good men who could have run on the Republican ticket but didn't so we have to go with what we have and pray for the best.

That's how I feel. What I am doing now is trying to point out the good in who we have and the distortion on his views coming from the media.

[SOUNWORTHY]

If people are stupid enough to believe the media they are too stupid to vote!!

[Aquila]

Pressing....you seem to think the issue is settled. Just wait. You'll look real silly after all is said and done. I think it will prove many around here don't have the judgment to babysit a gold fish. I think that if this administration is proven to be as corrupt as I believe we'll find out....those who supported them should be legally declared too blind to legally vote again. :lol

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=15474

Senate report slams Bush over prewar intelligence

Story Highlights
Report says Bush administration misused intelligence in run-up to Iraq war

Administration selectively declassified information to bolster case, report says

Panel: Public misled about contacts between Saddam Hussein, al Qaeda

White House spokeswoman calls findings old news

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Bush administration misused intelligence to build a case for the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq in 2003, the Senate Intelligence Committee said in a report issued Thursday.

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/06/05/senate.iraq/


You're all good conservative people. But Bush is going to make all those drinking his cool aide about the war look like mindless minions.

[Aquila]

C'mon guys...where you at?