View Full Version : Just a Question
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 01:19 PM
I find myself being disturbed by some ministers and their tactics in lessons.
This is no way an attack on any minister and if you know who preaches this I am not putting this man of God down.
But I was at the Indiana District UPC youth convention and the speaker preached "I Believe in Rings"...
He opened by discussing the things that we do in the church that have no biblical base such as running laps around the church, then he moved into the taboo of standards and how some are not in the Bible.
He took his text from the description of the tabernacle and talked about how rings were placed on all the items so that they could be moved in a time of transition without being tarnished.
He later drew a parallel to these rings and to the standards. He said we are in the greatest time of transition the church has ever faced and continued to rant about this.
Now, here is what bothers me and I think may be harmful:
1) Why is the church in a greater time of transition?
2) How safe is it when a preacher declares he has found some great hidden meaning in a scripture and it just blows the minds of the congregation?
I know it sounds like a great sermon but I can hardly see a shadow in rings and standards and now how many youth that were questioning their grounding in the church are going to be sustained by this faulty view point?
I just get a little upset when a preacher preaches something that sounds so mind blowing and intense but it is merely some interpretation to explain something that is not in the Bible....
dangerous!
Baron1710
05-28-2008, 01:21 PM
Relax...here have some more Kool Aid.
I find myself being disturbed by some ministers and their tactics in lessons.
This is no way an attack on any minister and if you know who preaches this I am not putting this man of God down.
But I was at the Indiana District UPC youth convention and the speaker preached "I Believe in Rings"...
He opened by discussing the things that we do in the church that have no biblical base such as running laps around the church, then he moved into the taboo of standards and how some are not in the Bible.
He took his text from the description of the tabernacle and talked about how rings were placed on all the items so that they could be moved in a time of transition without being tarnished.
He later drew a parallel to these rings and to the standards. He said we are in the greatest time of transition the church has ever faced and continued to rant about this.
Now, here is what bothers me and I think may be harmful:
1) Why is the church in a greater time of transition?
2) How safe is it when a preacher declares he has found some great hidden meaning in a scripture and it just blows the minds of the congregation?
I know it sounds like a great sermon but I can hardly see a shadow in rings and standards and now how many youth that were questioning their grounding in the church are going to be sustained by this faulty view point?
I just get a little upset when a preacher preaches something that sounds so mind blowing and intense but it is merely some interpretation to explain something that is not in the Bible....
dangerous!
One, we don't have the full message to accurately gauge a response &
two, I can see you are not in favour of standards perhaps?
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 01:27 PM
One, we don't have the full message to accurately gauge a response &
two, I can see you are not in favour of standards perhaps?
Perhaps, but I don't think it has anything to do with being favor of standards or not.
I am not asking for a response I am asking two simple questions that could be answered a full message is not needed.
I don't want to post a transcript so that people can pick out the good things and fail to see the fundamental flaw in the foundation.
I see it too often these days, ministers try to get a point across that may be a very good point but they about it in a way that is dangerous to developing minds.
RevBuddy
05-28-2008, 01:30 PM
I find myself being disturbed by some ministers and their tactics in lessons.
This is no way an attack on any minister and if you know who preaches this I am not putting this man of God down.
But I was at the Indiana District UPC youth convention and the speaker preached "I Believe in Rings"...
He opened by discussing the things that we do in the church that have no biblical base such as running laps around the church, then he moved into the taboo of standards and how some are not in the Bible.
He took his text from the description of the tabernacle and talked about how rings were placed on all the items so that they could be moved in a time of transition without being tarnished.
He later drew a parallel to these rings and to the standards. He said we are in the greatest time of transition the church has ever faced and continued to rant about this.
Now, here is what bothers me and I think may be harmful:
1) Why is the church in a greater time of transition?
2) How safe is it when a preacher declares he has found some great hidden meaning in a scripture and it just blows the minds of the congregation?
I know it sounds like a great sermon but I can hardly see a shadow in rings and standards and now how many youth that were questioning their grounding in the church are going to be sustained by this faulty view point?
I just get a little upset when a preacher preaches something that sounds so mind blowing and intense but it is merely some interpretation to explain something that is not in the Bible....
dangerous!
Maybe and maybe not. Without the full context of the message, a final assessment can't be made...
...but in general, such a message seems out of order for the occasion... :blah
Michael Phelps
05-28-2008, 01:32 PM
I find myself being disturbed by some ministers and their tactics in lessons.
This is no way an attack on any minister and if you know who preaches this I am not putting this man of God down.
But I was at the Indiana District UPC youth convention and the speaker preached "I Believe in Rings"...
He opened by discussing the things that we do in the church that have no biblical base such as running laps around the church, then he moved into the taboo of standards and how some are not in the Bible.
He took his text from the description of the tabernacle and talked about how rings were placed on all the items so that they could be moved in a time of transition without being tarnished.
He later drew a parallel to these rings and to the standards. He said we are in the greatest time of transition the church has ever faced and continued to rant about this.
Now, here is what bothers me and I think may be harmful:
1) Why is the church in a greater time of transition?
2) How safe is it when a preacher declares he has found some great hidden meaning in a scripture and it just blows the minds of the congregation?
I know it sounds like a great sermon but I can hardly see a shadow in rings and standards and now how many youth that were questioning their grounding in the church are going to be sustained by this faulty view point?
I just get a little upset when a preacher preaches something that sounds so mind blowing and intense but it is merely some interpretation to explain something that is not in the Bible....
dangerous!
I personally don't believe that a preacher at a camp meeting, General Conference, Youth Rally, or any other venue where several churches are represented should preach about standards AT ALL! Either for, or against, that's not the time or place, in my opinion.
Those preachers should preach about soul winning, encouragement, revival, and a host of other great topics to inspire people, in my humble opinion.
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 01:32 PM
Maybe and maybe not. Without the full context of the message, a final assessment can't be made...
...but in general, such a message seems out of order for the occasion... :blah
I agree it would be out of order, but I still am not asking for an assessment to be made of the message... :crazywalls
Cindy
05-28-2008, 01:32 PM
His point being to use standards as something that is removable when in transition to what? There is nothing new about preachers finding new meanings or points in scripture.
Cindy
05-28-2008, 01:33 PM
I agree it would be out of order, but I still am not asking for an assessment to be made of the message... :crazywalls
Then what is the point of this post?
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 01:37 PM
His point being to use standards as something that is removable when in transition to what? There is nothing new about preachers finding new meanings or points in scripture.
Just because its not new doesn't mean it is not bad...
Does anyone here actually read into the question at hand and look beyond the minor ones?
His point was not that standards are ever removable, simply that they aid in helping keep the church clean in transitional times... his statement about now being more of transitional period then ever seems incorrect IMHO but thats neither here not there.
My problem is that this type of message unsupported logic lends to a belief system that can hurt people.
I have never said their assumptions are wrong but when you base a principle on a foundation that doesn't exist you are doing something fundamentally wrong. It is safer to be wrong in principle then in foundation...
Steve Epley
05-28-2008, 01:37 PM
Well here the the disenter I believe it is totally appropriate to preach holiness in meetings. I will not comment on this since I know nothing of it. But if he did that at Indiana Youth Conf. he had guts that's all I can say.
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 01:40 PM
Well here the the disenter I believe it is totally appropriate to preach holiness in meetings. I will not comment on this since I know nothing of it. But if he did that at Indiana Youth Conf. he had guts that's all I can say.
I think it is a rude statement and is very judgmental for you to say something like that
bkstokes
05-28-2008, 01:41 PM
I personally don't believe that a preacher at a camp meeting, General Conference, Youth Rally, or any other venue where several churches are represented should preach about standards AT ALL! Either for, or against, that's not the time or place, in my opinion.
Those preachers should preach about soul winning, encouragement, revival, and a host of other great topics to inspire people, in my humble opinion.
Is Mooney still the D sup. there? I am sure that he would say something to the guy.
Phelps
I am not in the UPC? Are standards that big an issue nowadays?
bkstokes
05-28-2008, 01:43 PM
Well here the the disenter I believe it is totally appropriate to preach holiness in meetings. I will not comment on this since I know nothing of it. But if he did that at Indiana Youth Conf. he had guts that's all I can say.
Bro Epley
I appreciate your historical knowledge but 20th century traditions can hardly be equated as standards of holiness.
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 01:44 PM
The UPC still holds to most of its beliefs, the UPC is quite autonomous fellowship in that only the licensed ministers have to abide by the UPC's bylaws while the pastor presents his own to the church.
Mooney is not but it was held at his church. I highly doubt anything was said to him, considering who the minister was.
pelathais
05-28-2008, 02:04 PM
I think he may have had a pretext text in search of a text - and found the tabernacle rings suitable.
We are in a "transition" period right now - but the "greatest in the history of the church?" Fact of the matter is, every period of time - by definition - is a transition period. Everyone has to learn how to carry what is important from the past into the future. That's our responsibility as human beings.
How important are hem lengths, for example? At a certain point it is important, but do guys always have to have their hems down to the ankle while the ladies can enjoy the comfort of every breeze? And since this is an example of something that the early church never observed, why do some insist upon following such a "standard." The list is really filled with the silliest of things.
"We" decided at some point to abandon infant baptism, because the early church never practiced it. "We" decided to abandon burning our heretics at the stake (at least literally) because, well... just because, but the early church didn't do that either.
"We" have successfully navigated an almost uncountable number of "transitions" all of which seemed to be fraught with the gravest of perils at the time. Most of these things are now looked upon as being so trivial that we're embarassed by the mention of them.
I have to question the motives of the preacher you describe. I have no idea who he is, but c'mon! Is the Indiana board really such a tyrannical group that they must be mollified with pap? How about preaching the Gospel to those kids - or have we "transitioned" out of that?
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 02:07 PM
I agree but let me point out again I am not saying what he preached was wrong merely the tactic was misguided.
I don't think I should tell anyone on here whether I am a proprietor of standards or not so I will leave the subject matter a question of ones own faith.
RevBuddy
05-28-2008, 02:22 PM
Just because its not new doesn't mean it is not bad...
Does anyone here actually read into the question at hand and look beyond the minor ones?
His point was not that standards are ever removable, simply that they aid in helping keep the church clean in transitional times... his statement about now being more of transitional period then ever seems incorrect IMHO but thats neither here not there.
My problem is that this type of message unsupported logic lends to a belief system that can hurt people.
I have never said their assumptions are wrong but when you base a principle on a foundation that doesn't exist you are doing something fundamentally wrong. It is safer to be wrong in principle then in foundation...
Sorry, but you're coming in broken and garbled...I don't have a clue as to what point you're trying to make....no clue...:crazywalls
Cindy
05-28-2008, 02:24 PM
Bro Epley
I appreciate your historical knowledge but 20th century traditions can hardly be equated as standards of holiness.
BK, he said holiness not standards or holiness standards. Get it right bubba.
pelathais
05-28-2008, 02:32 PM
I agree but let me point out again I am not saying what he preached was wrong merely the tactic was misguided.
I don't think I should tell anyone on here whether I am a proprietor of standards or not so I will leave the subject matter a question of ones own faith.
I understand, you don't want to be publically associated with my "rant" though privately you agree. I get that a lot, no problemo. http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon10.gif
From what you described, and that's all I have to go on, I'd say the guy was exegetically and hermeneutically out of bounds as well as socially out of bounds. I couldn't care less about the "tactics" involved when the overall strategem imperils the souls in his audience.
And make no mistake here, we imperil the souls of our children and grandchildren because we have attached so many nonessentials to the essential Gospel message. We need to pull out some of those poles and do an Eleazar on the idolatrous and adulterous spirits that crowd out the Gospel from our churches and youth camps.
pelathais
05-28-2008, 02:37 PM
Sorry, but you're coming in broken and garbled...I don't have a clue as to what point you're trying to make....no clue...:crazywalls
He left out a verb (the smallest of verbs) but I think he's tottering along the line between "pretty good" and "right on!" I'm just trying to push him all the way into the "right on" zone.
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 02:37 PM
The above post pretty much sums up how I felt about it.
It wasn't a matter of whether or not he was right or wrong but simply how far out he reached to get there and basing it on a scripture was fundamentally a bad idea.
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 02:39 PM
The above post pretty much sums up how I felt about it.
It wasn't a matter of whether or not he was right or wrong but simply how far out he reached to get there and basing it on a scripture was fundamentally a bad idea.
Ok it was really two posts up lol!!!!
Depends on what your definition of is is....
mizpeh
05-28-2008, 03:07 PM
Sorry, but you're coming in broken and garbled...I don't have a clue as to what point you're trying to make....no clue...:crazywalls
I think Gustaveson doesn't like the preachers hermeneutics and is saddened that this preacher is teaching this wrong hermeneutical method to the young and impressionable.
ForeverBlessed
05-28-2008, 03:11 PM
I understand what you are saying, I was there and heard the message. I love the preacher because I’ve known him for years … but I didn’t agree.... of course I've been tagged a liberal for a long time, so no surprise there.
Standards or anything of this flesh shouldn’t ever be used as a protection. God doesn’t need anything of this physical realm to protect, save or accomplish anything.…Jesus is more than sufficient. We do not need standards or “rings” to keep us through this transition period… we do not need uncut hair to protect families either.
I have found that there are many people grasping at straws trying to find scripture or revelations to drive the importance of the outward standards.home with this generation. It is out of fear... they put far too much confidence in the outward dress standards. There are those who are using new revelations or twisting scripture with a tactic that works with a lot of people… fear…
Ruth Reider’s revelation of “magic hair” gave us women afraid of cutting hair because they can lose protection from God for their families.
If this message from HYC worked, we would have young people afraid to let go of any standard (biblical or not isn’t the point) because we sure wouldn’t want to lose “rings” that would keep the church from being tarnished in this transition period….
Building confidence in anything other than in God is dangerous in itself. Trying to use scripture to build that confidence is even more so.
Holiness standards are a result of personal commitment or dedication. They vary by believer and some here on AFF are more conservative, some more liberal… but everyone who is a Christian, has standards in their lives. We should all know however, those standards don’t save us.
rgcraig
05-28-2008, 03:16 PM
I understand what you are saying, I was there and heard the message. I love the preacher because I’ve known him for years … but I didn’t agree.... of course I've been tagged a liberal for a long time, so no surprise there.
Standards or anything of this flesh shouldn’t ever be used as a protection. God doesn’t need anything of this physical realm to protect, save or accomplish anything.…Jesus is more than sufficient. We do not need standards or “rings” to keep us through this transition period… we do not need uncut hair to protect families either.
I have found that there are many people grasping at straws trying to find scripture or revelations to drive the importance of the outward standards.home with this generation. It is out of fear... they put far too much confidence in the outward dress standards. There are those who are using new revelations or twisting scripture with a tactic that works with a lot of people… fear…
Ruth Reider’s revelation of “magic hair” gave us women afraid of cutting hair because they can lose protection from God for their families.
If this message from HYC worked, we would have young people afraid to let go of any standard (biblical or not isn’t the point) because we sure wouldn’t want to lose “rings” that would keep the church from being tarnished in this transition period….
Building confidence in anything other than in God is dangerous in itself. Trying to use scripture to build that confidence is even more so.
Holiness standards are a result of personal commitment or dedication. They vary by believer and some here on AFF are more conservative, some more liberal… but everyone who is a Christian, has standards in their lives. We should all know however, those standards don’t save us.
Sounds like a dangerous message to me!
Mrs. LPW
05-28-2008, 03:17 PM
My opinion on the message notwithstanding, this forum is overdue for some good ole TBN, Joel Osteen and Paula White sermon/lifestyle dissecting.
:)
Broken
05-28-2008, 03:17 PM
I personally don't believe that a preacher at a camp meeting, General Conference, Youth Rally, or any other venue where several churches are represented should preach about standards AT ALL! Either for, or against, that's not the time or place, in my opinion.
Those preachers should preach about soul winning, encouragement, revival, and a host of other great topics to inspire people, in my humble opinion.
I would agree strongly to this post/answer/comment.
Broken
05-28-2008, 03:18 PM
My opinion on the message notwithstanding, this forum is overdue for some good ole TBN, Joel Osteen and Paula White sermon/lifestyle dissecting.
:)
Oh my:girlytantrum:girlytantrum:girlytantrum
Mrs. LPW
05-28-2008, 03:21 PM
Oh my:girlytantrum:girlytantrum:girlytantrum
... but with a smile. :)
lol
RevBuddy
05-28-2008, 03:24 PM
Well here the the disenter I believe it is totally appropriate to preach holiness in meetings. I will not comment on this since I know nothing of it. But if he did that at Indiana Youth Conf. he had guts that's all I can say.
Elder Epley:
I agree with the bolded statement wholeheartedly...he was stomping through territory where angels fear to tread... :reaction
Michael Phelps
05-28-2008, 03:26 PM
Well here the the disenter I believe it is totally appropriate to preach holiness in meetings. I will not comment on this since I know nothing of it. But if he did that at Indiana Youth Conf. he had guts that's all I can say.
I think it's totally appropriate to preach holiness at camp meetings, but not standards.
Broken
05-28-2008, 03:30 PM
... but with a smile. :)
lol
:girlytantrum:girlytantrum:girlytantrum - no smiles:reaction:reaction
RevBuddy
05-28-2008, 03:30 PM
My opinion on the message notwithstanding, this forum is overdue for some good ole TBN, Joel Osteen and Paula White sermon/lifestyle dissecting.
:)
GIVE ME A BREAK...!!?!?!?!?! :blah :blah :blah :blah :blah :reaction
Broken
05-28-2008, 03:31 PM
I think it's totally appropriate to preach holiness at camp meetings, but not standards.
Agree again!
mizpeh
05-28-2008, 03:34 PM
I think it's totally appropriate to preach holiness at camp meetings, but not standards.
LOL! Some folks don't separate the two!
Steve Epley
05-28-2008, 03:39 PM
I think it's totally appropriate to preach holiness at camp meetings, but not standards.
Well to some of us standards are included in holiness preaching.:happydance
Broken
05-28-2008, 03:42 PM
Well to some of us standards are included in holiness preaching.:happydance
That doesn't hurt however my opinion would be it would be great if you give the standards to the sheep you are the shepherd over- you will give an account for their soul- I have no issue with standards just think the shepherd should look after his own sheep and not shear someone elses:happydance
StillStanding
05-28-2008, 03:47 PM
Well to some of us standards are included in holiness preaching.:happydance
True! :D
I was noticing the other day that Christianity seems to be the only religion that I'm aware of that has modernized with the culture as far as clothing goes.
Sister Alvear
05-28-2008, 03:53 PM
I haven´t read all the thread but in my opinion if we are preaching in someone else´s pulpit we should honor their standards and if ours is higher or lower I don´t think it should even be mentioned. I go places to try to be a blessing and not stir up trouble...of course I am a woman...however I think we should respect each other.
It has always bothered me when people come to our meetings and seem to have a spirit of how strick they are and then when you go to their church you wonder were did all that "standard" go?
I am not Brother Alvear but I personally do not appreciate someone coming to preach their personal convictions in our pulpit. If they see we believe in something or do not believe in something and they feel the same way then it is ok to mention it...but to go to a conference where there are dozens of opinions and many new saints from different folds I think the preacher should preach with wisdom and the fear of the Lord. God has more to say than something that will cause trouble and division.
I think sheep should be taught to listen to their pastor...
Something else at big meetings you have people at all levels spiritually what may help one might kill another...We must be careful to follow the leading of the spirit.
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 04:16 PM
I don't want this to be a debate over standards! That wasn't the intent. I personally believe that if you cut your pants your going to hell, but thats not the point of my thread the point is as a few have noticed the hermeneutics are improper and create a vital error in interpretation.
ForeverBlessed
05-28-2008, 04:36 PM
I don't want this to be a debate over standards! That wasn't the intent. I personally believe that if you cut your pants your going to hell, but thats not the point of my thread the point is as a few have noticed the hermeneutics are improper and create a vital error in interpretation.
Cut your pants?? :toofunny was that a typo?
It isn't all that uncommon for Pentecostals to take scripture and fit it to whatever agenda or beliefs they are promoting...
That is why it is imperative to read the scripture and know what the Word of God says and then be a berean... go home and study when something is preached.
Whenever I hear anything preached that I am not comfortable with or I'm not so sure I believe or understand the meaning to be what is preached... I make a mental note and spend time searching the scripture.
That doesn't hurt however my opinion would be it would be great if you give the standards to the sheep you are the shepherd over- you will give an account for their soul- I have no issue with standards just think the shepherd should look after his own sheep and not shear someone elses:happydance
Very wise indeed.
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 04:39 PM
Oh man that was a typo I meant to say listen to the TV.
Broken
05-28-2008, 04:40 PM
Cut your pants?? :toofunny was that a typo?
It isn't all that uncommon for Pentecostals to take scripture and fit it to whatever agenda or beliefs they are promoting...
That is why it is imperative to read the scripture and know what the Word of God says and then be a berean... go home and study when something is preached.
Whenever I hear anything preached that I am not comfortable with or I'm not so sure I believe or understand the meaning to be what is preached... I make a mental note and spend time searching the scripture.
I would never single out Pentecostals on taking scripture to fit their agenda or beliefs-----I would say it is common amongst all religions.....even yours if you pentecostal or something else.
We must study the word and make sure we are adhering to every scripture that is inspired by the word of God.
Oh man that was a typo I meant to say listen to the TV.
How about watchin the radio? Will that earn someone a one way ticket to the pit? :D
Sister Alvear
05-28-2008, 04:42 PM
not so interested in the title Pentecostal or Apostolic...I just want to be a Christian.
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 04:43 PM
How about watchin the radio? Will that earn someone a one way ticket to the pit? :D
Quit being so judgmental!!!
ForeverBlessed
05-28-2008, 04:43 PM
Oh man that was a typo I meant to say listen to the TV.
you gotta start using some smilies.. --> :tic how in the world are we supposed to know when you are being funny? :happydance
AmazingGrace
05-28-2008, 04:43 PM
Ahhh this is old huh? If you search the preacher on this forum you will find a long thread I think about this exact message. I know we talked about it a lot.
Quit being so judgmental!!!
Hey! I just noticed you are in IN. Sweet! There are several members here that either live in or come from Indiana.
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 04:44 PM
you gotta start using some smilies.. --> :tic how in the world are we supposed to know when you are being funny? :happydance
You were just scared 'cause you cut your pants!
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 04:45 PM
Hey! I just noticed you are in IN. Sweet! There are several members here that either live in or come from Indiana.
Yep I am from the good ole BSU locale.
Hey! I just noticed you are in IN. Sweet! There are several members here that either live in or come from Indiana.
Yeah Rico, but we don't hold it against them!:D
Yeah Rico, but we don't hold it against them!:D
Yeah. Just like we don't hold it against you that you are a foreigner!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 04:48 PM
How are you a foreigner on the internet?
Yep I am from the good ole BSU locale.
Coolio. I am from the murder capital of the Midwest, Gary. I live about 30 miles east of Evansville, along the Ohio River, in a one horse town.
How are you a foreigner on the internet?
He's Canadian. They get to use the internet, but we invented it. Just ask Al Gore. It was all his idea.
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 04:49 PM
Coolio. I am from the murder capital of the Midwest, Gary. I live about 30 miles east of Evansville, along the Ohio River, in a one horse town.
Gary stinks! Lol no offense but it literally stinks!
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 04:50 PM
He's Canadian. They get to use the internet, but we invented it. Just ask Al Gore. It was all his idea.
He invented global warming too... but to let the rest of the world in on that one he called it global...
Gary stinks! Lol no offense but it literally stinks!
Real bad. You can thank what's left of the steel mills for that. It's such a dirty town too. Nothing stays clean.
ForeverBlessed
05-28-2008, 04:51 PM
I would never single out Pentecostals on taking scripture to fit their agenda or beliefs-----I would say it is common amongst all religions.....even yours if you pentecostal or something else.
We must study the word and make sure we are adhering to every scripture that is inspired by the word of God.
I would agree... all churches do that to a certain extent...
I'm apostolic in belief.
I do happen to attend a UPC church sorta came that way by birth... thankful for my heritage.... but not so impressed with traditions that are taught as doctrine in many of our churches.
I think they should stay in the Word and leave everything else up to the Holy Ghost.
ForeverBlessed
05-28-2008, 04:53 PM
You were just scared 'cause you cut your pants!
:boxing :boxing :toofunny
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 04:53 PM
I would agree... all churches do that to a certain extent...
I'm apostolic in belief.
I do happen to attend a UPC church sorta came that way by birth... thankful for my heritage.... but not so impressed with traditions that are taught as doctrine in many of our churches.
I think they should stay in the Word and leave everything else up to the Holy Ghost.
Keep cutting your pants, see where that lands you!
Broken
05-28-2008, 04:54 PM
I would agree... all churches do that to a certain extent...
I'm apostolic in belief.
I do happen to attend a UPC church sorta came that way by birth... thankful for my heritage.... but not so impressed with traditions that are taught as doctrine in many of our churches.
I think they should stay in the Word and leave everything else up to the Holy Ghost.
We do have somewhat of the same background however maybe I am a tad more involved other than sitting on a pew (no offense-I am speaking of leadership)
I have no problems with a pastor teaching his sheep a righteous and holy lifestyle separated from the world. I just think there should be a balance a pastor to look after his own sheep, not the camp speaker if you know what I mean.
Broken
05-28-2008, 04:55 PM
Keep cutting your pants, see where that lands you!
What if you leave the pants long and snip the hair?:bliss:happydance
ForeverBlessed
05-28-2008, 04:56 PM
Keep cutting your pants, see where that lands you!
Definitely out of the choir huh?? :toofunny
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 04:56 PM
What if you leave the pants long and snip the hair?:bliss:happydance
As long as your wearing pants cut your hair but if not I would steer clear of the shears.
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 04:57 PM
Definitely out of the choir huh?? :toofunny
You think they would notice?
KV cant tell a blonde from brunette!
He's Canadian. They get to use the internet, but we invented it. Just ask Al Gore. It was all his idea.
Yup! I just upgraded my etch-a-sketch!
Now I is modern like you guys!:D
Broken
05-28-2008, 04:59 PM
I have met many Canadians - very smart smart and intelligent individuals- with hospitality second to none.
Any Canadians on here- be proud to be a Canadian
(this post is not slamming anyone - just a plug for the good ole Canadians)
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 05:01 PM
I have met many Canadians - very smart smart and intelligent individuals- with hospitality second to none.
Any Canadians on here- be proud to be a Canadian
(this post is not slamming anyone - just a plug for the good ole Canadians)
:drama
ForeverBlessed
05-28-2008, 05:02 PM
We do have somewhat of the same background however maybe I am a tad more involved other than sitting on a pew (no offense-I am speaking of leadership)
I have no problems with a pastor teaching his sheep a righteous and holy lifestyle separated from the world. I just think there should be a balance a pastor to look after his own sheep, not the camp speaker if you know what I mean.
Balance is definitely needed.
I'm done w/leadership.. I will leave that to you and clgustaveson... I had enough leadership to last me a lifetime being raised in a minister's home. When married, my husband and I were involved in leadership... now I am perfectly content to sing in the choir and not cut my pants. :happydance
Broken
05-28-2008, 05:02 PM
:drama
Don't be smart- you love them tooooo!:happydance:happydance:happydance
Because you have to get to heaven:happydance:happydance:happydance
Broken
05-28-2008, 05:03 PM
Balance is definitely needed.
I'm done w/leadership.. I will leave that to you and clgustaveson... I had enough leadership to last me a lifetime being raised in a minister's home. When married, my husband and I were involved in leadership... now I am perfectly content to sing in the choir and not cut my pants. :happydance
:bliss:bliss:bliss:bliss:bliss:bliss- there is absolutely nothing wrong with you feeling the way you do...it is obvious you got burned out or hurt however keep the faith and don't cut the pants:happydance:happydance
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 05:04 PM
Don't be smart- you love them tooooo!:happydance:happydance:happydance
Because you have to get to heaven:happydance:happydance:happydance
So thats a standard too?
Broken
05-28-2008, 05:05 PM
So thats a standard too?
Yes- only in the Pentecostal movement:blah:blah:blah:happydance:happydance
ForeverBlessed
05-28-2008, 05:08 PM
You think they would notice?
KV cant tell a blonde from brunette!
:largehalo ................................... :winkgrin
side note: clgustaveson and I attend the same church. :friend
Broken
05-28-2008, 05:09 PM
:largehalo :winkgrin
side note: clgustaveson and I attend the same church. :friend
sweet
ForeverBlessed
05-28-2008, 05:13 PM
:bliss:bliss:bliss:bliss:bliss:bliss- there is absolutely nothing wrong with you feeling the way you do...it is obvious you got burned out or hurt however keep the faith and don't cut the pants:happydance:happydance
nah.. really neither. Divorced unfortunately because of biblical reasons.. but most definitely keeping the faith.
now I just spend my time focused on building a more personal close relationship with God.... and using the talent God gave me.... and it is a ministry. :bliss
ForeverBlessed
05-28-2008, 05:16 PM
So thats a standard too?
thought you didn't want this to be a standards thread? :blah you better get it back on track!
ForeverBlessed
05-28-2008, 05:17 PM
sweet
He may not claim me. ;)
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 05:19 PM
He may not claim me. ;)
I don't.... :coffee2
Does that smilie work?
Broken
05-28-2008, 05:23 PM
Bless you forever blessed-
The only standards we are going to discuss and have to agree on is we must love the Canadians and I am afraid your friend is having difficulties with that:tissue:tissue:tissue (just kidding)
ForeverBlessed
05-28-2008, 05:28 PM
I don't.... :coffee2
Does that smilie work?
well, I don't think I will claim you either...specially since you made fun of me Monday saying I looked like a tourist. :tissue
works.... much better now.
ForeverBlessed
05-28-2008, 05:30 PM
Bless you forever blessed-
The only standards we are going to discuss and have to agree on is we must love the Canadians and I am afraid your friend is having difficulties with that:tissue:tissue:tissue (just kidding)
Thanks... Canadians are great *thumbs up*
Broken
05-28-2008, 05:32 PM
Thanks... Canadians are great *thumbs up*
I agree - some of my "best Friends" are Canadians living in Canada and Canadians living in the USA
clgustaveson
05-28-2008, 05:35 PM
well, I don't think I will claim you either...specially since you made fun of me Monday saying I looked like a tourist. :tissue
works.... much better now.
Lol well I spaced it was memorial day otherwise I would have destroyed the flag of the USofA to look like the cover of a Mellencamp CD
Lol I'll claim you!
I want to let you know on the way up drop zone your daughter promised to never disobey you.
bkstokes
05-28-2008, 05:39 PM
BK, he said holiness not standards or holiness standards. Get it right bubba.
Well
If you had read the whole thread you would have found that the person who started said he was disturbed by a preacher loosely using scripture to preach UPC standards. Bro. Epley equated those standards to holiness. I believe I have it right.
ForeverBlessed
05-28-2008, 05:40 PM
Lol well I spaced it was memorial day otherwise I would have destroyed the flag of the USofA to look like the cover of a Mellencamp CD
Lol I'll claim you!
I want to let you know on the way up drop zone your daughter promised to never disobey you.
I'll have you to know lots of people like my flag shirt!
Lord, she needs a drop zone experience every day... she's forgotten already. lol
bkstokes
05-28-2008, 05:42 PM
How about watchin the radio? Will that earn someone a one way ticket to the pit? :D
:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny
nahkoe
05-28-2008, 05:58 PM
Gary stinks! Lol no offense but it literally stinks!
No doubt.
nahkoe
05-28-2008, 06:00 PM
As long as your wearing pants cut your hair but if not I would steer clear of the shears.
Woot! I can cut my hair! :toofunny
pelathais
05-28-2008, 07:28 PM
As long as your wearing pants cut your hair but if not I would steer clear of the shears.
Woot! I can cut my hair! :toofunny
I'm not going to read the whole thread to catch up and get some context here...
As I grow older I'm becoming more of an advocate for the ancient modes of dress. A loose toga for my mornings in the Senate and then a nice tunic with a cingulum and greaves. I haven't worn greaves since I was a child playing soccer.
Michael Phelps
05-29-2008, 06:04 AM
Well to some of us standards are included in holiness preaching.:happydance
Do you have scripture to support that premise?
I'd love to see any scripture that speaks of "holiness" and "outward appearance" in the same sentence.
bkstokes
05-29-2008, 06:18 AM
Do you have scripture to support that premise?
I'd love to see any scripture that speaks of "holiness" and "outward appearance" in the same sentence.
I would also like to see those scriptures. :happydance
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