View Full Version : Men in Womens Bathroom: A Reality now in CO
maaa4546
05-30-2008, 06:21 PM
Ritter signs bill giving gays equal access to accommodations
May 29, 2008 - 7:26PM
By MARK BARNA
THE GAZETTE
Gov. Bill Ritter on Thursday signed a bill that makes it illegal in Colorado to discriminate against gays, bisexuals and transgendered people when buying a home, renting an apartment or using public accommodations.
"The governor felt that this bill, SB200, was about fairness and treating people equally," said Evan Dreyer, spokesman for the governor's office. "It essentially updates anti-discrimination laws that in some cases have not been updated for 50 years."
Bruce DeBoskey, regional director of Denver's Anti-Defamation League, a civil rights organization, said the law is a step forward for Coloradans.
"No one should be denied housing or public accommodations solely because of his or her sexual preference," DeBoskey said.
One aspect of the law enables transgenders - those who were born one gender but identify with the other - to use public restrooms in which they feel most comfortable.
Beginning May 21, Focus on the Family and Colorado Family Action began sponsoring radio advertisements on four radio stations in Colorado Springs and Denver denouncing the bill.
The ads warned that cross-dressing predators could endanger children by using restrooms designated for the opposite sex.
Focus founder James Dobson said Thursday:
"Who would believe that the Colorado state Legislature and its governor would have made it legal for men to enter and use women's restrooms and locker room facilities without notice or explanation?
"Henceforth, every woman and little girl will have to fear that a predator, bisexual, cross-dresser or even a homosexual or heterosexual male might walk in and relieve himself in their presence."
DeBoskey denounced Dobson's view.
"It is unfortunate that they feel they have to exaggerate the dangers and play on people's fears," DeBoskey said. "This law is about fairness and justice for all people living in this state."
Last May, Sen. Jennifer Veiga, D-Denver, introduced the forerunner to SB200 known as SB25, a bill that prohibits employment discrimination against gays, bisexuals and transgendered people. Ritter signed it into law. SB200, which Veiga also introduced, extends the rights of these people to housing and public accommodations.
"This is a law whose time has come," said Ryan Acker, executive director of the Pikes Peak Gay and Lesbian Community Center in Colorado Springs.
"The passing of this bill shows that Colorado is a progressive state."
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A transgender agenda has passed in Colorado. Allowing men in women's bathrooms. We are in deep trouble folks!!!!
Social re-engineering now is on the forefront ... Teachers will have to teach kids that it's okay for Joey to be a girl today and allow him to go in the girl's bathroom
Sickening.
Sorry posted article on Mom's laptop ... that's okay.
This is surreal.
HeavenlyOne
05-30-2008, 06:39 PM
Sickening.
The Church needs to mobilize big time ...
From Dr. Dobson's Focus on the Family website:
Colorado Governor Signs Dangerous Legislation
Dr. James Dobson, founder and chairman of Focus on the Family, issued this statement late today after Colorado Gov. Bill Ritter signed SB 200:
“Who would have believed that the Colorado state Legislature and its governor would have made it fully legal for men to enter and use women’s restrooms and locker-room facilities without notice or explanation?
“Henceforth, every woman and little girl will have to fear that a predator, bisexual, cross-dresser or even a homosexual or heterosexual male might walk in and relieve himself in their presence. The legislation lists every conceivable type of organization to which this law applies, including restaurants, bathhouses, massage parlors, mortuaries, theaters and ‘public facilities of any kind.’ Those who would attempt to protect females from this intrusion are subject to a fine of up to $5,000 and up to one year behind bars.
“This is your government in action. It represents a payback to Tim Gill and two other billionaires who have essentially ‘bought’ the state Legislature with enormous campaign contributions. Coloradans deserve better!
“And by the way, because of the way this bill is written, it is not subject to the initiative process. There is no recourse.”
Pragmatist
05-30-2008, 06:43 PM
I live in Colorado and this is the first I've heard of this bill. Wonder why there hasn't been much press coverage.
Cindy
05-30-2008, 06:44 PM
This is very scary in so many ways. You are right Daniel, we do need to mobilize.
Cindy
05-30-2008, 06:46 PM
I live in Colorado and this is the first I've heard of this bill. Wonder why there hasn't been much press coverage.
They haven't been covering this because it would hurt they're pocketbooks. They wouldn't dare show any negative publicity about homosexuals.
I live in Colorado and this is the first I've heard of this bill. Wonder why there hasn't been much press coverage.
Ritter passed several laws last night and chose not to discuss this one ...
went under the radar.
Go to http://www.focusonthefamily.com (http://www.focusonthefamily.com/)
and listen to today's broadcast.
Cindy
05-30-2008, 06:50 PM
Can a governor be impeached?
If not the christians of Colorado should rise up and put pressure on him and get him out of office.
I'm all for equal protection under the law ... but there must be line drawn somewhere.
Cindy
05-30-2008, 06:59 PM
I'm all for equal protection under the law ... but there must be line drawn somewhere.
They will have to change the signs on the bathroom doors.
I really don't understand this at all. So does this mean that women can use the men's restrooms too?
They will have to change the signs on the bathroom doors.
I really don't understand this at all. So does this mean that women can use the men's restrooms too?
Yes it also allows women in men's bathrooms ... locker rooms, etc.
from the article:
“...Henceforth, every woman and little girl will have to fear that a predator, bisexual, cross-dresser or even a homosexual or heterosexual male might walk in and relieve himself in their presence. The legislation lists every conceivable type of organization to which this law applies, including restaurants, bathhouses, massage parlors, mortuaries, theaters and ‘public facilities of any kind.’ Those who would attempt to protect females from this intrusion are subject to a fine of up to $5,000 and up to one year behind bars...."
Question:
Does the term "public places" include churches?
from the article:
“...Henceforth, every woman and little girl will have to fear that a predator, bisexual, cross-dresser or even a homosexual or heterosexual male might walk in and relieve himself in their presence. The legislation lists every conceivable type of organization to which this law applies, including restaurants, bathhouses, massage parlors, mortuaries, theaters and ‘public facilities of any kind.’ Those who would attempt to protect females from this intrusion are subject to a fine of up to $5,000 and up to one year behind bars...."
Question:
Does the term "public places" include churches?
That's what I want to know ... will churches be prosecuted for standing against this legislation
They will have to change the signs on the bathroom doors.
...
What does that do to the UPC (and Bro. Epley's) teaching that the silhouette on the door defines divine teaching on dress code and gender distinction?
Cindy
05-30-2008, 07:03 PM
from the article:
“...Henceforth, every woman and little girl will have to fear that a predator, bisexual, cross-dresser or even a homosexual or heterosexual male might walk in and relieve himself in their presence. The legislation lists every conceivable type of organization to which this law applies, including restaurants, bathhouses, massage parlors, mortuaries, theaters and ‘public facilities of any kind.’ Those who would attempt to protect females from this intrusion are subject to a fine of up to $5,000 and up to one year behind bars...."
Question:
Does the term "public places" include churches?
I thought of that myself. But I don't think so.
What does that do to the UPC (and Bro. Epley's) teaching that the silhouette on the door defines divine teaching on dress code and gender distinction?
That's an interesting side note ... but the ramifications this has in public schools is of way more significance ....
Cindy
05-30-2008, 07:05 PM
That's an interesting side note ... but the ramifications this has in public schools is of way more significance ....
Yes it does Daniel. JG may be right that he needs to get into the public school system. Lord help us all.
I've been to a couple of concerts before where the line was so much longer at the ladies' rest room that they let the ladies in to the men's room. There were a few comments back and forth as you can imagine.
I've been to a couple of concerts before where the line was so much longer at the ladies' rest room that they let the ladies in to the men's room. There were a few comments back and forth as you can imagine.
What recourse does a parent have now ????
As a parent of pre-teen daughter ... there's no way she uses a public bathroom alone in CO
Cindy
05-30-2008, 07:07 PM
I've been to a couple of concerts before where the line was so much longer at the ladies' rest room that they let the ladies in to the men's room. There were a few comments back and forth as you can imagine.
They did that for me when I was 8 months pregnant at Ranger Stadium in Arlington, TX years ago. The men were very polite, even the ones that were somewhat under the influence of alcohol. There were no rude or offensive comments at all.
Cindy
05-30-2008, 07:10 PM
What recourse does a parent have now ????
As a parent of pre-teen daughter ... there's no way she uses a public bathroom alone in CO
Another scary thought to me is that it will not be considered indecent exposure if a young girl or even a grown woman is in the same room. Most women's restrooms do have locked stalls and separated areas unlike men's.
Cindy
05-30-2008, 07:12 PM
What recourse does a parent have now ????
As a parent of pre-teen daughter ... there's no way she uses a public bathroom alone in CO
Hmmmmm wonder what would happen if companies like Wal-Mart started losing money because people wouldn't shop at a place where they're kids my be exposed to this?
What recourse does a parent have now ????
As a parent of pre-teen daughter ... there's no way she uses a public bathroom alone in CO
Ladies and girls don't ordinarily go to the bathroom alone anyway. And they always take their purses. Why is that?
Hoovie
05-30-2008, 07:19 PM
What recourse does a parent have now ????
As a parent of pre-teen daughter ... there's no way she uses a public bathroom alone in CO
What is your greatest concern about this?
That a trasvestite would expose it's self to your daughter... abduction... what?
What is your greatest concern about this?
That a trasvestite would expose it's self to your daughter... abduction... what?
Not a transvestite ... but a predator who now has access to expose himself w/ little repercussion ...
Hoovie
05-30-2008, 07:22 PM
Not a transvestite ... but a predator who now has access to do expose himself w/o little repercussion ...
OK... so the fear is that he would usethat to abduct, stalk or otherwise gather info to commit a crime.
OK... so the fear is that he would usethat to abduct, stalk or otherwise gather info to commit a crime.
Don't know all about that ...
Just the fact that a grown man ... could keep a stall door open and expose a young lady to his privates is sickening enough.
Hoovie
05-30-2008, 07:26 PM
Don't know all about that ...
Just the fact that a grown man ... could keep a stall door open and expose a young lady to his privates is sickening enough.
Amen to that.
Don't know all about that ...
Just the fact that a grown man ... could keep a stall door open and expose a young lady to his privates is sickening enough.
Not by just leaving a stall door open but by standing at the urinal and then turning around.
Not by just leaving a stall door open but by standing at the urinal and then turning around.
Or he could sit face forward on the commode ...
I can't fathom that the legislators and governor of CO did not envision the possible ramifications of this ....
chosenbyone
05-30-2008, 07:29 PM
Not a transvestite ... but a predator who now has access to do expose himself w/o little repercussion ...
That was what I thought while I read the article from Dobson who failed to mention the most likely predator who would take advantage of that situation.
I still cannot believe this actually passed in CO! I think this will be overturned quickly once the public becomes aware of this law. This has to be the most careless piece of legislature ever passed on a state or federal level.
Wasn't this passed because there was an issue of a transsexual who was forced to use the men's room somewhere, even though this person has been through parts of the transition that gave "her" breasts and "she" lives as a female? I also heard of another instance where a butch looking lesbian was denied access to the ladies room because a bouncer didn't believe she was actually a woman.
Cindy
05-30-2008, 07:36 PM
What is your greatest concern about this?
That a trasvestite would expose it's self to your daughter... abduction... what?
This wouldn't concern you Stephen?
HeavenlyOne
05-30-2008, 07:38 PM
Not by just leaving a stall door open but by standing at the urinal and then turning around.
Sam, we don't have urinals in the women's bathrooms.....LOL!
HeavenlyOne
05-30-2008, 07:39 PM
Not by just leaving a stall door open but by standing at the urinal and then turning around.
And if there is a urinal involved, it's the young lady in the wrong place, not the man!
HeavenlyOne
05-30-2008, 07:39 PM
Or he could sit face forward on the commode ...
I can't fathom that the legislators and governor of CO did not envision the possible ramifications of this ....
For you too.....there is no urinal in the women's bathroom!!
For you too.....there is no urinal in the women's bathroom!!
A man could scoot forward on the toilet seat, leave the stall door open, and someone could see everything God did or didn't bless him with. This is what Dan was talking about.
chosenbyone
05-30-2008, 07:41 PM
Sam, we don't have urinals in the women's bathrooms.....LOL!
While reading Rico's post about the butch lesbian using the men's facilities, I envisioned standing at the urinal next to her! Frightening! I don't think that a lesbian would garner as much concern though as having a man, gay, straight or other using a women's restroom. That is just CRAZY!!!
Cindy
05-30-2008, 07:42 PM
Not by just leaving a stall door open but by standing at the urinal and then turning around.
We don't have urinals in ladies rooms Sam.
A man could scoot forward on the toilet seat, leave the stall door open, and someone could see everything God did or didn't bless him with. This is what Dan was talking about.
I don't think the law requires stall doors to be closed.
Cindy
05-30-2008, 07:47 PM
I don't think the law requires stall doors to be closed.
Probably not, but modesty does.
I think y'all are over reacting a bit. Perverts could expose themselves in bathrooms the way it is now, especially in the men's room. Plus, you women folk are always going to the bathroom with each other anyway and probably see alot more of each other's bodies than men do. This law isn't about a man, dressed as a man, going into the women's room. It's about transgendered people being allowed to use the restroom they most identify with. Transvestites do not identify themselves as being a woman trapped in a man's body.
Cindy
05-30-2008, 07:48 PM
Wasn't this passed because there was an issue of a transsexual who was forced to use the men's room somewhere, even though this person has been through parts of the transition that gave "her" breasts and "she" lives as a female? I also heard of another instance where a butch looking lesbian was denied access to the ladies room because a bouncer didn't believe she was actually a woman.
Yep, personal liberties, right?
I don't think the law requires stall doors to be closed.
Actually, I think a man can be arrested for indecent exposure for intentionally leaving a stall door open, scooting on the toilet seat, and sitting there for others to see the goods. In fact, I have been to more than one public restroom that didn't even have doors on the stalls, so I don't think they'd have a law about doors having to be shut and not have one about the stall having a door in the first place.
I think y'all are over reacting a bit. Perverts could expose themselves in bathrooms the way it is now, especially in the men's room. Plus, you women folk are always going to the bathroom with each other anyway and probably see alot more of each other's bodies than men do. This law isn't about a man, dressed as a man, going into the women's room. It's about transgendered people being allowed to use the restroom they most identify with. Transvestites do not identify themselves as being a woman trapped in a man's body.
Bro .... a young boy seeing another male's privates is common ... one wouldn't know if this was intentional or inadvertent if this happened in a male only restroom
but would you want your daughter having to be exposed to male genitalia ... because of this?
Actually, I think a man can be arrested for indecent exposure for intentionally leaving a stall door open, scooting on the toilet seat, and sitting there for others to see the goods. In fact, I have been to more than one public restroom that didn't even have doors on the stalls, so I don't think they'd have a law about doors having to be shut and not have one about the stall having a door in the first place.
Really under what intent ... he could simply give a million "legitimate" reasons for scooting up. It's a bathroom for God's sake.
Yep, personal liberties, right?
How would you feel if you walked up to the ladies room and someone denied you access because they thought you looked like a man and not a woman?
They have family bathrooms now, why can't they make unisex bathrooms in addition to men and womens bathrooms. As the article says to be fair. Otherwise they are not being fair to heterosexuals.
A man could scoot forward on the toilet seat, leave the stall door open, and someone could see everything God did or didn't bless him with. This is what Dan was talking about.
Then the would realize that God did not create all men equal.
Really under what intent ... he could simply give a million reasons for scooting up. It's a bathroom for God's sake.
Because exposing your privates to someone else, regardless of the reason, is against the law. It's called indecent exposure in Indiana. You can be arrested for that in IN no matter where you are when it happens; the park, your car, the bathroom, a restaurant, anywhere accessible to the public.
Cindy
05-30-2008, 07:55 PM
How would you feel if you walked up to the ladies room and someone denied you access because they thought you looked like a man and not a woman?
Where do they have guards at restroom doors?
Because exposing your privates to someone else, regardless of the reason, is agains't the law. It's called indecent exposure in Indiana. You can be arrested for that in IN no matter where you are when it happens; the park, your car, the bathroom, a restaurant, anywhere accessible to the public.
Say you're saying it's impossible to see a man's privates in the restroom whether purposefully or inadvertently ... especially how some dividers between urinals are built w/o "breaking the law"?
Dude ... be real
You don't have to close the stall door
Bro .... a young boy seeing another male's privates is common ... one wouldn't know if this was intentional or inadvertent if this happened in a male only restroom
but would you want your daughter having to be exposed to male genitalia ... because of this?
That isn't an issue for me because I never send my young children into a public restroom alone. Even if I am at a store with one of my young ones, and their mom isn't there, I make sure to find someone who works at the store to go into the bathroom with them.
Say you're saying it's impossible to see a man's privates in the restroom whether purposefully or inadvertently ... especially how some dividers between urinals are built w/o "breaking the law"?
Dude ... be real
You don't have to close the stall door
Dan, it is against the law for someone to intentionally expose their privates to someone else in public. It's called indecent exposure. What part of that is so difficult for you to understand? If you don't believe me, call your local police department and ask them if someone intentionally showing someone else their privates in public is against the law. You can also get into trouble for it happening unintentionally in some circumstances.
What about the confusion this could mean to a young child ...
One of the things that helps distinguish gender to a young child is the very fact that there is a male and female bathroom.
My boy knows the difference already by looking at the signs.
How do teachers teach kids to accept this cross-gender situation now at schools.
Joey feels like a girl on Mondays and Wednesdays so girls don't be alarmed when he comes in to your bathroom to relieve himself?
Phys ed teachers may have to allow adolescent boys to use girl's locker rooms ...
You have know issue w/ a young girl changing in her drawers in front of boys and having no recourse?
Where do they have guards at restroom doors?
This incident with the lesbian happened at a night club. A bouncer would not ler her use the ladies room because he thought she was a man.
Phys ed teachers may have to allow adolescent boys to use girl's locker rooms ...
You have know issue w/ a young girl changing in her drawers in front of boys and having no recourse?
What a bunch of HOGWASH! How many transgenderd children do you know or have heard of?
Cindy
05-30-2008, 08:06 PM
This incident with the lesbian happened at a night club. A bouncer would not ler her use the ladies room because he thought she was a man.
Well I hear it is very dark in those kind of places. But still why was a bouncer guarding the bathroom door? And I guess this wasn't a homosexual/lesbian bar.
What a bunch of HOGWASH! How many transgenderd children do you know or have heard of?
You're kidding I teach in Junior High and in the last 5-6 years it's becoming extremely prevalent among 6th, 7th, and 8th graders.
I can show you almost 2 dozen open homosexuals at my school
This may only add to the confusion among those more naive
What about the confusion this could mean to a young child ...
One of the things that helps distinguish gender to a young child is the very fact that there is a male and female bathroom.
My boy knows the difference already by looking at the signs.
How do teachers teach kids to accept this cross-gender situation now at schools.
Joey feels like a girl on Mondays and Wednesdays so girls don't be alarmed when he comes in to your bathroom to relieve himself?
More hogwash. How many young children do you think would be sharp enough to know the person in the stall next to them is a transexual?
HeavenlyOne
05-30-2008, 08:08 PM
A man could scoot forward on the toilet seat, leave the stall door open, and someone could see everything God did or didn't bless him with. This is what Dan was talking about.
No, he responded to Sam speaking of a urinal. He added sitting on the commode backward.
You're kidding I teach in Junior High and in the last 5-6 years it's becoming extremely prevalent among 6th, 7th, and 8th graders.
I can show you almost 2 dozen at my school
This may only add to the confusion among those more naive
Dan, I don't believe you. Take it any way you want, but I don't believe that there are 24 transgenderd junior high school students at your school. Being transgendered is a relatively rare phenomenon. There may be that many homosexual students, but I don't believe for a second that there are that many transexuals. Get real!
Dan, I don't believe you. Take it any way you want, but I don't believe that there are 24 transgenderd junior high school students at your school. Being transgendered is a relatively rare phenomenon. There may be that many homosexual students, but I don't believe for a second that there are that many transexuals. Get real!
Speaking of homosexuals that are blatant ... those that are shameless.
You did speak of lesbian at club did you not?
They may or may not want to use the other restroom.
No, he responded to Sam speaking of a urinal. He added sitting on the commode backward.
Sister, doesn't matter what post he was responding to. He was talking about a man scooting forward on a toilet seat and making it possible for someone to see what he's got. Urinals aren't used for doing #2. There is no sitting involved in the use of a urinal.
This place is going batty tonite! What is with y'all? :lol
You've made the assumption this is just to protect transexuals, Rico
That might have been the good intention.
When in reality it protects gays also ... and gives excuses to those w/ nefarious intents.
And we know that 9/10 it's adult males w/ the issues.
Speaking of homosexuals that are blatant ... those that are shameless.
You did speak of lesbian at club did you not?
They may or may not want to use the other restroom.
Dan, the lesbian was trying to use the WOMAN'S restroom, not the men's room. Blatant homosexuals have been using the men's room ever since there have been men's rooms. Me thinks thou art going mad, Brudda.
More hogwash. How many young children do you think would be sharp enough to know the person in the stall next to them is a transexual?
You are underestimating children. They know a whole lot more than you give them credit for.
Dan, the lesbian was trying to use the WOMAN'S restroom, not the men's room. Blatant homosexuals have been using the men's room ever since there have been men's rooms. Me thinks thou art going mad, Brudda.
However now they have their choice, Rico.
And it gives the choice to predators ... heterosexuals who may want to get more out of their bathroom/lockeroom experience and still not break the law.
While bringing a transgender agenda to have to be taught in the classroom ... we've blurred the lines and that's what some want.
What a bunch of HOGWASH! How many transgenderd children do you know or have heard of?
Does the law say they have to be transgendered?
Or does the law just allow any individual to use any restroom he or she wants to and when they want to with no questions asked?
Does the law say they have to be transgendered?
Or does the law just allow any individual to use any restroom he or she wants to and when they want to with no questions asked?
Bingo. One doesn't have to show their transgender id card.
You've made the assumption this is just to protect transexuals, Rico
That might have been the good intention.
When in reality it protects gays also ... and gives excuses to those w/ nefarious intents.
And we know that 9/10 it's adult males w/ the issues.
Those with nefarious intents will accomplish their nefarious deeds regardless, Dan. If it's that big an issue for you, make sure your children have an adult go into the restrooms with them when you are in public. It isn't that hard to find a willing female employee to go into the restroom with your daughter. I've found them every time I needed one for one of my girls.
LadyChocolate
05-30-2008, 08:19 PM
They have family bathrooms now, why can't they make unisex bathrooms in addition to men and womens bathrooms. As the article says to be fair. Otherwise they are not being fair to heterosexuals.
That is what I was I thinking.... What about our rights? I think it is sickening but I would have no problem adding a third "perverted" restroom for those who want to share.... They are infringing on our rights.... I hate that spirit! The perverted spirit! This world needs deliverance in a bad way!
Dan, I don't believe you. Take it any way you want, but I don't believe that there are 24 transgenderd junior high school students at your school. Being transgendered is a relatively rare phenomenon. There may be that many homosexual students, but I don't believe for a second that there are that many transexuals. Get real!
He lives in a metro city, you live in rural America. Huge difference. We lived in a rural city until a year ago. We moved to Houston and whoa did I have a wake up call.
Those with nefarious intents will accomplish their nefarious deeds regardless, Dan. If it's that big an issue for you, make sure your children have an adult go into the restrooms with them when you are in public. It isn't that hard to find a willing female employee to go into the restroom with your daughter. I've found them every time I needed one for one of my girls.
And when I'm not there ... like at school? The locker room? C'mon Rico ... serious modesty issues here.
He lives in a metro city, you live in rural America. Huge difference. We lived in a rural city until a year ago. We moved to Houston and whoa did I have a wake up call.
It was just as bad in New York ... taught there for 9 years.
Cindy
05-30-2008, 08:22 PM
The lesbian must have been wearing pants.
:reaction
Does the law say they have to be transgendered?
Or does the law just allow any individual to use any restroom he or she wants to and when they want to with no questions asked?
"One aspect of the law enables transgenders - those who were born one gender but identify with the other - to use public restrooms in which they feel most comfortable."
This says absolutely NOTHING about enabling people to use whatever bathroom they want. It specifically says it is for those who are transgendered.
The part that is protecting the gays is in housing situations.
Seriously, y'all need to read what the article actually says and not jump to conclusions just because Dobson says something against it.
In CA schools they are not allowed to label the bathrooms with ladies and mens. Most parents don't spend the day at school so they can make sure who is in the bathrooms with them. I think in CA they have a bigger can of worms than just bathrooms to deal with when it comes to public schools.
Sister Alvear
05-30-2008, 08:23 PM
I was always so careful with my kids..you just never know who might be in a public bathroom.
Cindy
05-30-2008, 08:23 PM
The lesbian must have been wearing pants.
:reaction
oops, I meant a dress.
:gaga
"One aspect of the law enables transgenders - those who were born one gender but identify with the other - to use public restrooms in which they feel most comfortable."
This says absolutely NOTHING about enabling people to use whatever bathroom they want. It specifically says it is for those who are transgendered.
The part that is protecting the gays is in housing situations.
Seriously, y'all need to read what the article actually says and not jump to conclusions just because Dobson says something against it.
Dude ... does one get a transgender id card w/ this law?
As it reads it allows for all males and all females to use the others accomodations.
Cindy
05-30-2008, 08:24 PM
In CA schools they are not allowed to label the bathrooms with ladies and mens. Most parents don't spend the day at school so they can make sure who is in the bathrooms with them. I think in CA they have a bigger can of worms than just bathrooms to deal with when it comes to public schools.
Especially since homeschooling parents must be certified by the state.
He lives in a metro city, you live in rural America. Huge difference. We lived in a rural city until a year ago. We moved to Houston and whoa did I have a wake up call.
I don't mean to be rude to you, but I am not a country hick. I am a city slicker who happens to live in the country now because I don't like city life. I lived in Los Angeles for almost 6 years, was born and raised in the second most populated county in Northern Indiana (close to Chicago), and completely understand the difference in country life and city life. In fact, my mother is a teacher in the county in Indiana I just described. :)
Rico is not a country hick. It's settled.
LadyChocolate
05-30-2008, 08:28 PM
"One aspect of the law enables transgenders - those who were born one gender but identify with the other - to use public restrooms in which they feel most comfortable."
This says absolutely NOTHING about enabling people to use whatever bathroom they want. It specifically says it is for those who are transgendered.
The part that is protecting the gays is in housing situations.
Seriously, y'all need to read what the article actually says and not jump to conclusions just because Dobson says something against it.
On the contrary....all the more reason we need to jump into action as Christians and citizens.... It won't stop with that and you know it. And they are in the minority....I would expect the majority of the people are terribly upset also, but if we don't speak out against this, it will get worse and worse... And I will add that not all gays and lesbians are out to destroy innocent children and such, it's only the "sick" minded that are wanting to gets laws like this passed....
I was always so careful with my kids..you just never know who might be in a public bathroom.
Thank you. I find myself wondering why anyone would allow their young child to go into a public restroom without supervision in the first place.
Rico is not a country hick. It's settled.
Not a country hick?
well,
is he then a city hick?
Just kidding
Maybe our resident lawyers can read the law as it reads here and interpret it for us.
http://www.leg.state.co.us/CLICS/CLICS2008A/csl.nsf/fsbillcont3/BD7A295EB6F4460E872573F5005D0148?Open&file=200_01.pdf
I don't mean to be rude to you, but I am not a country hick. I am a city slicker who happens to live in the country now because I don't like city life. I lived in Los Angeles for almost 6 years, was born and raised in the second most populated county in Northern Indiana (close to Chicago), and completely understand the difference in country life and city life. In fact, my mother is a teacher in the county in Indiana I just described. :)
Sorry, in no way was I implying that you were a country hick. Being in the country keeps you from everything that goes on in the city and change happens quickly in the city.
LadyChocolate
05-30-2008, 08:33 PM
Thank you. I find myself wondering why anyone would allow their young child to go into a public restroom without supervision in the first place.
My children do not go alone...That's for sure... I took my boys, yes my boys, into the restroom with me until they were older. Now they go in pairs and are not allowed to leave eachother..... My 5 year old still goes in with me... I don't like taking chances.... When I was traveling without my husband and only my 3 boys, I had to stop at the "Oasis'" there in the Chicago area. We went into the family room. They hated it but I could have cared less. There was a private stall and a "waiting" room and I made sure the door stayed locked. I have to protect them because I don't trust anybody!
Dude ... does one get a transgender id card w/ this law?
As it reads it allows for all males and all females to use the others accomodations.
One more HOGWASH and I am going to give you the award for the day, Dan.
You obviously don't know much about transgendered people. They live their lives completely as the opposite sex they were born. There is a period of transition where it isn't too difficult to tell they are a man/woman dressed as a woman/man, but eventually the hormone treatments, breast surgeries, electrolysis, and voice training make it practically impossible to tell the difference.
It's much easier for a woman to make the transition than it is for a man because a woman on male hormones will grow facial hair and her voice will deepen. Plus, they also have the option of using wraps to smash their breasts down so you can't tell they have them.
Men have issues with removing facial hair, learning female mannerisms, and dealing with things that surgery can not correct, like a deeper voice and the adam's apple.
Rico is not a country hick. It's settled.
I'm one by choice, not by birth. :D
Dude I'm well aware of sex changes... but if you read the law SB200 as it reads it's not exclusively geared to transsexuals ... an assertion I believe you are making.
You are flawed in your thinking here ... I have no problem w/ allowing equal protection under the law ... but we must have some lines between genders .... no ... and seek not to confuse/endanger our children w/ this agenda?
On the contrary....all the more reason we need to jump into action as Christians and citizens.... It won't stop with that and you know it. And they are in the minority....I would expect the majority of the people are terribly upset also, but if we don't speak out against this, it will get worse and worse... And I will add that not all gays and lesbians are out to destroy innocent children and such, it's only the "sick" minded that are wanting to gets laws like this passed....
First of all, what up Sista? Haven't seen you posting in the last few days. You really missed some good stuff too. There's a Branham follower registered as a member now. Been dealing with that! :D
Also, I can understand some of your concern. I see others over reacting in a big way, saying men will just be able to walk into the ladies room and a bunch of other stuff like that that isn't the case at all. I agree with you that we need to be praying about the things happening in this country, but I don't see how we will be able to change anything. The Bible says this world is going to get worse and worse with time. We are seeing it happen before our very eyes. It's one more reason to rejoice over the fact that God's Word is true.
Not a country hick?
well,
is he then a city hick?
Just kidding
I'm a saved hick. How about that? :bliss
Sorry, in no way was I implying that you were a country hick. Being in the country keeps you from everything that goes on in the city and change happens quickly in the city.
Sister, I am sorry. I over reacted with that comment. I know that life is different in the city than it is in the country. You are correct that the difference is like night and day. :)
My children do not go alone...That's for sure... I took my boys, yes my boys, into the restroom with me until they were older. Now they go in pairs and are not allowed to leave eachother..... My 5 year old still goes in with me... I don't like taking chances.... When I was traveling without my husband and only my 3 boys, I had to stop at the "Oasis'" there in the Chicago area. We went into the family room. They hated it but I could have cared less. There was a private stall and a "waiting" room and I made sure the door stayed locked. I have to protect them because I don't trust anybody!
Amen Sister. This is a dangerous world we live in. I won't let my two young ones go outside unless their big sister or big brother goes outside with them. Even my oldest daughter is not allowed to go anywhere without her brother going with her. I've made exceptions to that rule before, but she knows it pretty much stands as the law in these here parts.
Sister, I am sorry. I over reacted with that comment. I know that life is different in the city than it is in the country. You are correct that the difference is like night and day. :)
No offense taken I jumped in when it was a little heated already.
LadyChocolate
05-30-2008, 08:47 PM
First of all, what up Sista? Haven't seen you posting in the last few days. You really missed some good stuff too. There's a Branham follower registered as a member now. Been dealing with that! :D
Also, I can understand some of your concern. I see others over reacting in a big way, saying men will just be able to walk into the ladies room and a bunch of other stuff like that that isn't the case at all. I agree with you that we need to be praying about the things happening in this country, but I don't see how we will be able to change anything. The Bible says this world is going to get worse and worse with time. We are seeing it happen before our very eyes. It's one more reason to rejoice over the fact that God's Word is true.
Hey brutha! Not much been going on! I have stayed away from the forum because it was just getting on my nerves....Anyway, I understand why you say we can't change things but I dont' understand people just sitting by and letting it happen! God did say that if His people would humble themselves and pray, He'd heal the land! God does not lie......it's the fact that His people aren't praying!
Tell the Mrs. I said Hello and I miss her!
Dude I'm well aware of sex changes... but if you read the law SB200 as it reads it's not exclusively geared to transsexuals ... an assertion I believe you are making.
You are flawed in your thinking here ... I have no problem w/ allowing equal protection under the law ... but we must have some lines between genders .... no ... and seek not to confuse/endanger our children w/ this agenda?
Dan, I am too tired right now to read all the contents of this law. Even if I weren't, I am no legal expert. The to wits and habeus lingo leaves me baffled. I am basing my arguments on what the article says, not how Dobson and his pack of whacko political activists are spinning it.
Hey brutha! Not much been going on! I have stayed away from the forum because it was just getting on my nerves....Anyway, I understand why you say we can't change things but I dont' understand people just sitting by and letting it happen! God did say that if His people would humble themselves and pray, He'd heal the land! God does not lie......it's the fact that His people aren't praying!
Tell the Mrs. I said Hello and I miss her!
You got a good point there, Sister, about praying.
It's pretty much too late to do anything about stuff like this, once a law actually gets passed and signed by a governor. It can always be challenged in court, but they'd have to find more than "it offends me as a Christian" for their arguments. They'd have to use the law to prove that particular law shouldn't be a law. The time to have stopped this law would have been when it was being debated in the CO statehouse, before it became a law. Where was Dobson with his phone campaigns then?
Hoovie
05-30-2008, 08:58 PM
Rico, I think DA is correct on this. God help the person who confronts the wacko pervert and tries to make a case that he is NOT transgendered... there are many that swing anyway imaginable and this law protects them all. They can choose the room they are most comfortable with.
Noone will be measuring breasts or adams apples to see who qualifies.
You got a good point there, Sister, about praying.
It's pretty much too late to do anything about stuff like this, once a law actually gets passed and signed by a governor. It can always be challenged in court, but they'd have to find more than "it offends me as a Christian" for their arguments. They'd have to use the law to prove that particular law shouldn't be a law. The time to have stopped this law would have been when it was being debated in the CO statehouse, before it became a law. Where was Dobson with his phone campaigns then?
Possibly too little too late ...
Beginning May 21, Focus on the Family and Colorado Family Action began sponsoring radio advertisements on four radio stations in Colorado Springs and Denver denouncing the bill.
we don't know the time line of this bill or if it was pork bellied.
Rico, I think DA is correct on this. God help the person who confronts the wacko pervert and tries to make a case that he is NOT transgendered... there are many that swing anyway imaginable and this law protects them all. They can choose the room they are most comfortable with.
In order for someone to be considered transgendered, a diagnosis of such has to be made by a professional. I could see someone trying to use that as an excuse, but I can picture the prosecutor ripping the defense to shreds because of no diagnosis.
LadyChocolate
05-30-2008, 09:04 PM
You got a good point there, Sister, about praying.
It's pretty much too late to do anything about stuff like this, once a law actually gets passed and signed by a governor. It can always be challenged in court, but they'd have to find more than "it offends me as a Christian" for their arguments. They'd have to use the law to prove that particular law shouldn't be a law. The time to have stopped this law would have been when it was being debated in the CO statehouse, before it became a law. Where was Dobson with his phone campaigns then?
But like I said before, it's only the sick minded individuals who want to create such idiocy......I personally know lesbians who would be outraged knowing that men could walk into the woman's restroom if they pleased... No a third restroom should be provided for them....
Possibly too little too late ...
we don't know the time line of this bill or if it was pork bellied.
This may be challenged in court. It will be interesting to follow the story as it develops. Does anyone know if Colorado has the option of a voter mandated change in laws, like they do in CA?
This may be challenged in court. It will be interesting to follow the story as it develops. Does anyone know if Colorado has the option of a voter mandated change in laws, like they do in CA?
Dobson says:
And by the way, because of the way this bill is written, it is not subject to the initiative process. There is no recourse.
Only through the courts .... apparently. The law was written w/ a safety clause ... listen to the Dobson broadcast and you will find out how that works in CO.
But like I said before, it's only the sick minded individuals who want to create such idiocy......I personally know lesbians who would be outraged knowing that men could walk into the woman's restroom if they pleased... No a third restroom should be provided for them....
Sister, I don't know if it's sick minded people so much as people who want to make accomodations for everyone in society. Could you imagine being a transgendered person and being forced to use the restroom designated for the sex you were born?
There it is, last paragraph, page 22:
"6 SECTION 35. Safety clause. The general assembly
7 determines, and declares that this act is necessary
8 preservation of the public peace, health, and safety."
Dobson says:
Only through the courts .... apparently. The law was written w/ a safety clause ... listen to the Dobson broadcast and you will find out how that works in CO.
Thanks for the info. I quit listening to Dobson years ago because I feel he is more interested in imposing Christian beliefs on society than seeking justice for Christians who've been discriminated against. He started off with a focus on the latter and has moved to the former, in my opinion.
Man! I forgot how tough it can be to be the dissenting opinion on a thread! :D
Hoovie
05-30-2008, 09:16 PM
In order for someone to be considered transgendered, a diagnosis of such has to be made by a professional. I could see someone trying to use that as an excuse, but I can picture the prosecutor ripping the defense to shreds because of no diagnosis.
Can you cite a source for this?
Hoovie
05-30-2008, 09:17 PM
Man! I forgot how tough it can be to be the dissenting opinion on a thread! :D
Rico, do you hate apple pie???? :boxing
Cindy
05-30-2008, 09:17 PM
Sister, I don't know if it's sick minded people so much as people who want to make accomodations for everyone in society. Could you imagine being a transgendered person and being forced to use the restroom designated for the sex you were born?
I am sure that God made me with the "gender" I am to have on this earth, as he did everyone else. Transgender is a choice in my opinion, so they aren't forced to do anything.
Hoovie
05-30-2008, 09:20 PM
I am sure that God made me with the "gender" I am to have on this earth, as he did everyone else. Transgender is a choice in my opinion, so they aren't forced to do anything.
zactly
chosenbyone
05-30-2008, 09:24 PM
Rico, do you hate apple pie???? :boxing
He was confusing trangender with transsexual. Transsexuals who want sex reassignment surgery have to live as the opposite sex usually for one year and undergo extensive physiological evaluation before surgery.
Someone who identifies themselves as transgendered feels that their physical bodies don't match up to how they view themselves internally. Even though they may feel like a woman inside, they don't alter their physical bodies (male sex organ).
He was confusing trangender with transsexual. Transsexuals who want sex reassignment surgery have to live as the opposite sex usually for one year and undergo extensive physiological evaluation before surgery.
Someone who identifies themselves as transgendered feels that their physical bodies don't match up to how they view themselves internally. Even though they may feel like a woman inside, they don't alter their physical bodies (male sex organ).
Bingo ... again.
chosenbyone
05-30-2008, 09:33 PM
Bingo ... again.
It just goes to prove you should know the subject matter before you enter a debate/arguement. Otherwise, you were sure to lose!
Cindy
05-30-2008, 09:33 PM
He was confusing trangender with transsexual. Transsexuals who want sex reassignment surgery have to live as the opposite sex usually for one year and undergo extensive physiological evaluation before surgery.
Someone who identifies themselves as transgendered feels that their physical bodies don't match up to how they view themselves internally. Even though they may feel like a woman inside, they don't alter their physical bodies (male sex organ).
Yes.
Praxeas
05-30-2008, 09:34 PM
Ritter signs bill giving gays equal access to accommodations
May 29, 2008 - 7:26PM
By MARK BARNA
THE GAZETTE
Gov. Bill Ritter on Thursday signed a bill that makes it illegal in Colorado to discriminate against gays, bisexuals and transgendered people when buying a home, renting an apartment or using public accommodations.
"The governor felt that this bill, SB200, was about fairness and treating people equally," said Evan Dreyer, spokesman for the governor's office. "It essentially updates anti-discrimination laws that in some cases have not been updated for 50 years."
Bruce DeBoskey, regional director of Denver's Anti-Defamation League, a civil rights organization, said the law is a step forward for Coloradans.
"No one should be denied housing or public accommodations solely because of his or her sexual preference," DeBoskey said.
One aspect of the law enables transgenders - those who were born one gender but identify with the other - to use public restrooms in which they feel most comfortable.
Beginning May 21, Focus on the Family and Colorado Family Action began sponsoring radio advertisements on four radio stations in Colorado Springs and Denver denouncing the bill.
The ads warned that cross-dressing predators could endanger children by using restrooms designated for the opposite sex.
Focus founder James Dobson said Thursday:
"Who would believe that the Colorado state Legislature and its governor would have made it legal for men to enter and use women's restrooms and locker room facilities without notice or explanation?
"Henceforth, every woman and little girl will have to fear that a predator, bisexual, cross-dresser or even a homosexual or heterosexual male might walk in and relieve himself in their presence."
DeBoskey denounced Dobson's view.
"It is unfortunate that they feel they have to exaggerate the dangers and play on people's fears," DeBoskey said. "This law is about fairness and justice for all people living in this state."
Last May, Sen. Jennifer Veiga, D-Denver, introduced the forerunner to SB200 known as SB25, a bill that prohibits employment discrimination against gays, bisexuals and transgendered people. Ritter signed it into law. SB200, which Veiga also introduced, extends the rights of these people to housing and public accommodations.
"This is a law whose time has come," said Ryan Acker, executive director of the Pikes Peak Gay and Lesbian Community Center in Colorado Springs.
"The passing of this bill shows that Colorado is a progressive state."
------------------------------
A transgender agenda has passed in Colorado. Allowing men in women's bathrooms. We are in deep trouble folks!!!!
Social re-engineering now is on the forefront ... Teachers will have to teach kids that it's okay for Joey to be a girl today and allow him to go in the girl's bathroom
Sickening.
This is absurd....what If I, a Heterosexual male, say I am most comfortable in a womans bathroom? Do I get the same rights as Transgender freaks?
Praxeas
05-30-2008, 09:35 PM
The Church needs to mobilize big time ...
according to some around here the church needs to just hunker down and wait for the jackbooted thugs and black helicopters to come and take us all away:blah
Can you cite a source for this?
The State of CA is an example. In order for a man to have his ID changed to say F for his sex a form has to be filled out by a professional. I don't remember if it's a psychiatrist or a psychologist, but transexuals can not just walk into the DMV and get the gender on their ID changed. I might be able to find something as proof of that, but hopefully you will take my word for it that what I am saying is true.
Transexuals also can not get a doctor to prescribe the hormones they need without a proper diagnosis being made.
Rico, do you hate apple pie???? :boxing
I luv apple pie! Why? Ya gonna overnight me some? :happydance
Cindy
05-30-2008, 09:40 PM
This is absurd....what If I, a Heterosexual male, say I am most comfortable in a womans bathroom? Do I get the same rights as Transgender freaks?
Apparently so in Colorado.
Do not try this in Texas if you see me in a ladies room. I have no fear when it comes to protecting myself or my family.
I am sure that God made me with the "gender" I am to have on this earth, as he did everyone else. Transgender is a choice in my opinion, so they aren't forced to do anything.
Unfortunately, you don't get to decide if it's a choice they are making or not. I know you probly don't like that, but that's just the way it is. If you are interested in learning more about transgender disorder, I am sure you could look it up. There's probably loads of info available on the net. :)
He was confusing trangender with transsexual. Transsexuals who want sex reassignment surgery have to live as the opposite sex usually for one year and undergo extensive physiological evaluation before surgery.
Someone who identifies themselves as transgendered feels that their physical bodies don't match up to how they view themselves internally. Even though they may feel like a woman inside, they don't alter their physical bodies (male sex organ).
Transgender and transexual are interchangable terms.
Praxeas
05-30-2008, 09:44 PM
Apparently so in Colorado.
Do not try this in Texas if you see me in a ladies room. I have no fear when it comes to protecting myself or my family.
Appearently not. This law only gives these special rights to gays and transgendered freaks...not to heterosexuals that just feel more comfy in a bathroom made for the opposite sex.....gee that word is becoming sort of a oxymoron now adays.
Cindy
05-30-2008, 09:45 PM
Unfortunately, you don't get to decide if it's a choice they are making or not. I know you probly don't like that, but that's just the way it is. If you are interested in learning more about transgender disorder, I am sure you could look it up. There's probably loads of info available on the net. :)
Seriously Rico, I don't care how some confused soul is seeking to alter themselves and think it gives them the right to infringe on my rights. 4 of the most horrible things in this world have happened to me and I have no fear of any man, jail, or government. The worst that can happen to me besides being murdered has. So if you think I will pity an idiot you are wrong. They need Jesus to get they're minds right. Then they will for sure know what bathroom they need to use.
Praxeas
05-30-2008, 09:48 PM
Transgender and transexual are interchangable terms.
I thought transgender was someone that was one sex but lives as the other (wearing the clothing) and transexual was someone that had the operation.
There was a kid here that got killed in his junior high by another kid. The kid that was killed was a boy but came to school in makeup and in womens clothing. He was called transgender.
A transexual is a transgender person but a transexual had the operation (snip snip) and takes the meds while a transgendered person may not have had the operation yet
Some of you are probably wondering how I know all this stuff. Well, Jovita is someone who was a friend of mine when I was in my late teens. She was born Joel, but had lived the bulk of her adult life as a woman named Jovita. Being the kind of person that I am, I asked her a lot of questions about how she ended up how she was. She gave me a lot of information. The last time I spoke with her she still had not had her surgery, but was hoping to eventually get it done.
Because of the things I knew from Jovita, I didn't think it was a big issue to be friends with people that have this disorder. When I ended up in CA a coworker, Joanna, was a tranny, like Jovita. She was at the beginning stages of her transition so it was pretty obvious she was actually a he (had a serious issue with 5 o'clock shadow, voice, and mannerisms. I learned a lot from her too.
This is definitely not a choice that people like this make. Both Jovita and Joanna said they always felt like they were girls while growing up. Jovita was a very feminine male so she got picked on a lot. Joanna was a "regular" male, so she was able to keep her struggle a secret. One thing that was different about Joanna was that she was attracted to females, while Jovita was attracted to males.
I never thought I would be talking about them on a forum, but here we are. To this day, I will do the best I can to be understanding and cordial to people like Jovita and Joanna. This was all before my conversion, so the issue of God never came up with either of them.
I thought transgender was someone that was one sex but lives as the other (wearing the clothing) and transexual was someone that had the operation.
There was a kid here that got killed in his junior high by another kid. The kid that was killed was a boy but came to school in makeup and in womens clothing. He was called transgender.
A transexual is a transgender person but a transexual had the operation (snip snip) and takes the meds while a transgendered person may not have had the operation yet
You may be thinking of a transvestite, which is someone who wears the clothing of the opposite sex. They don't live as the opposite sex or think they are the opposite sex stuck in the wrong body.
Praxeas
05-30-2008, 09:57 PM
I have known people that had the operation....I still think they are freaks. I don't think they were women trapped in men's bodies. I feel sorry for them that they are so psychological screwed up (among other possibilities) but I don't think the solution is to take hormones and cut it off.
Praxeas
05-30-2008, 09:58 PM
You may be thinking of a transvestite, which is someone who wears the clothing of the opposite sex. They don't live as the opposite sex or think they are the opposite sex stuck in the wrong body.
no I am thinking of someone that believes they are another gender trapped in their body and live their life AS that other sex, Not someone that just likes to wear the clothing of the opposite sex.
http://web4health.info/en/answers/sex-gender-what.htm
Transgender is a bid broader term than transexual.
I have known people that had the operation....I still think they are freaks. I don't think they were women trapped in men's bodies. I feel sorry for them that they are so psychological screwed up (among other possibilities) but I don't think the solution is to take hormones and cut it off.
Prax, it doesn't matter what you think about them. Not to them anyway. What matters for them is what they think about themselves. I am sure many of them consider themselves freaks though.
Pragmatist
05-30-2008, 10:00 PM
According to the news tonight, Colorado was the 20th state to pass this law. Where was the outrage over the other 19 where this is already the law?
Praxeas
05-30-2008, 10:00 PM
http://web4health.info/en/answers/sex-gender-what.htm
Transgender is a bid broader term than transexual.
Sounds what I just got finished saying
DanielR
05-30-2008, 10:01 PM
Hmm, in some parts of this world today there are public restrooms with no sex designation, this is very common in some parts of Europe as I understand. (I haven't been over there myself, but have heard it from people that have) I don't mean the unisex one holer either, I'm talking large public restrooms that everybody use. So this is the first step to the elimination of sex desinated restrooms. So from now on the ladies will just have to close the doors on those stalls and the guys will just have to step up to the urinal....wait, we already do that now. I've noticed a trend in some places that beside the sex designated restrooms will be another "family" restroom which is almost as big as the others. It's progressing toward a 1 restroom system for everybody.
Praxeas
05-30-2008, 10:01 PM
Prax, it doesn't matter what you think about them. Not to them anyway. What matters for them is what they think about themselves. I am sure many of them consider themselves freaks though.
You aren't telling me anything new
Praxeas
05-30-2008, 10:03 PM
Hmm, in some parts of this world today there are public restrooms with no sex designation, this is very common in some parts of Europe as I understand. (I haven't been over there myself, but have heard it from people that have) I don't mean the unisex one holer either, I'm talking large public restrooms that everybody use. So this is the first step to the elimination of sex desinated restrooms. So from now on the ladies will just have to close the doors on those stalls and the guys will just have to step up to the urinal....wait, we already do that now. I've noticed a trend in some places that beside the sex designated restrooms will be another "family" restroom which is almost as big as the others. It's progressing toward a 1 restroom system for everybody.
I wonder if voyeurism will be made illegal in them restrooms or if exhibitionism will be made illegal....
According to the news tonight, Colorado was the 20th state to pass this law. Where was the outrage over the other 19 where this is already the law?
Really? So this isn't something that's new. Interesting.
Praxeas
05-30-2008, 10:12 PM
According to the news tonight, Colorado was the 20th state to pass this law. Where was the outrage over the other 19 where this is already the law?
How do you know there wasn't outrage? Or maybe it just did not make the news everywhere. I haven't been hearing about these laws popping up everywhere else. But I have heard of such laws here in Ca and I have posted on them
Sounds what I just got finished saying
Transexuals are definitely transgendered people. Transgendered people don't always become transexuals. I will concede that I was using the two terms interchangeably. They are strongly connected, but the connection is more of a one way street. I took your comments to mean that both terms apply to completely different groups of people.
Hoovie
05-30-2008, 10:12 PM
Some of you are probably wondering how I know all this stuff. Well, Jovita is someone who was a friend of mine when I was in my late teens. She was born Joel, but had lived the bulk of her adult life as a woman named Jovita. Being the kind of person that I am, I asked her a lot of questions about how she ended up how she was. She gave me a lot of information. The last time I spoke with her she still had not had her surgery, but was hoping to eventually get it done.
Because of the things I knew from Jovita, I didn't think it was a big issue to be friends with people that have this disorder. When I ended up in CA a coworker, Joanna, was a tranny, like Jovita. She was at the beginning stages of her transition so it was pretty obvious she was actually a he (had a serious issue with 5 o'clock shadow, voice, and mannerisms. I learned a lot from her too.
This is definitely not a choice that people like this make. Both Jovita and Joanna said they always felt like they were girls while growing up. Jovita was a very feminine male so she got picked on a lot. Joanna was a "regular" male, so she was able to keep her struggle a secret. One thing that was different about Joanna was that she was attracted to females, while Jovita was attracted to males.
I never thought I would be talking about them on a forum, but here we are. To this day, I will do the best I can to be understanding and cordial to people like Jovita and Joanna. This was all before my conversion, so the issue of God never came up with either of them.
Rico they are sick sick people. All the cutting they choose to do will change nothing. Not there mental torment nor their gender.
They need Jesus.
According to the news tonight, Colorado was the 20th state to pass this law. Where was the outrage over the other 19 where this is already the law?
Maybe because Focus on the Family is headquartered in Colorado?
At least, I think that's where they are.
Praxeas
05-30-2008, 10:14 PM
Transexuals are definitely transgendered people. Transgendered people don't always become transexuals. I will concede that I was using the two terms interchangeably. They are strongly connected, but the connection is more of a one way street. I took your comments to mean that both terms apply to completely different groups of people.
No I was saying what you last said that transgender is a broad term that covers transexuals as well
Praxeas
05-30-2008, 10:14 PM
Maybe because Focus on the Family is headquartered in Colorado?
At least, I think that's where they are.
True dat. Give the man a candy cigar
They need Jesus.
I am not arguing they don't need Jesus. Apart from a complete conversion, including a major miracle on the part of God, they are going to be what they are. I do not think it's a good idea to treat these people with contempt and hatred, regardless of whether they convert or not. The really sad thing to me is that the Church can't seem to find much success getting homosexuals delivered from their desires, so what are the chances of it finding success with a much more complicated issue than being gay?
No I was saying what you last said that transgender is a broad term that covers transexuals as well
Gotcha.
Hoovie
05-30-2008, 10:22 PM
I am not arguing they don't need Jesus. Apart from a complete conversion, including a major miracle on the part of God, they are going to be what they are. I do not think it's a good idea to treat these people with contempt and hatred, regardless of whether they convert or not. The really sad thing to me is that the Church can't seem to find much success getting homosexuals delivered from their desires, so what are the chances of it finding success with a much more complicated issue than being gay?
For the most part it is not the church that is at fault. The blood of Jesus can save to the uttermost - including persecution from the "church" if need be.
I am not arguing they don't need Jesus. Apart from a complete conversion, including a major miracle on the part of God, they are going to be what they are. I do not think it's a good idea to treat these people with contempt and hatred, regardless of whether they convert or not. The really sad thing to me is that the Church can't seem to find much success getting homosexuals delivered from their desires, so what are the chances of it finding success with a much more complicated issue than being gay?
There is a local ministry in the Cincinnati area called Prodigal Ministries
http://www.prodigalministries.net/
led by a young man named Jerry Armelli which ministers to and works with gays and lesbians. Jerry has spoken at the local Vineyard one weekend and he and some of his team came for a Monday night meeting of the Growth and Healing ministry.
Praxeas
05-30-2008, 10:23 PM
I am not arguing they don't need Jesus. Apart from a complete conversion, including a major miracle on the part of God, they are going to be what they are. I do not think it's a good idea to treat these people with contempt and hatred, regardless of whether they convert or not. The really sad thing to me is that the Church can't seem to find much success getting homosexuals delivered from their desires, so what are the chances of it finding success with a much more complicated issue than being gay?
I still think they are freaks, but I would only call them that behind their backs :toofunny
Seriously I used to witness to one many years ago before I found out "her" secret. Afterwards I still treated "her" as I did before but in my mind you always have that nagging thought "this was a dude....so thats why she has no hips!"
I am not arguing they don't need Jesus. Apart from a complete conversion, including a major miracle on the part of God, they are going to be what they are. I do not think it's a good idea to treat these people with contempt and hatred, regardless of whether they convert or not. The really sad thing to me is that the Church can't seem to find much success getting homosexuals delivered from their desires, so what are the chances of it finding success with a much more complicated issue than being gay?
Years ago I read a book by David Wilkerson. I think the title was The Untapped Generation but I am not sure. In it he said that they had a very low success rate with homosexuals (as they were called back then).
For the most part it is not the church that is at fault. The blood of Jesus can save to the uttermost - including persecution from the "church" if need be.
The problem isn't Jesus or His blood. The problem is with how people like this get treated by the church, before and after conversion. A lot of good it does to call people fa*****, queers, freaks, disgusting, and generally show contempt towards anyone caught in these sorts of traps. We've got a long way to go in learning how to love the sinner when it comes to homosexuals, transvestites, and transgendered people. We try to hid behind saying we love the sinner and hate the sin, but I certainly don't see alcoholics, drug addicts, adulterers, sexually promiscuous men and women, and other sinners treated the way we treat these folks. Even when we do manage to get one to convert, we still treat these people like they have the plague. It's a disgrace to everything that Jesus stands for and what Christianity is supposed to be about, in my opinion.
I prayed with a young man several years ago that was having sexual identity problems. He was leaving for college and was not going to be around this area. I asked him if he was physically a male and he answered in the affirmative. He said he just felt like he was female inside. I realize that some folks can have outward sex organs of one sex and have internal organs of another. Also I realize that some folks have gender identity problems because they have been made to feel like the sex they are is not pleasing to a parent. Like the family that wanted a boy but when a girl was born she was always made to feel like she was a disappointment because she was a girl and the parents wished shee was a boy. He told me that his problem was not because of parental disappointment. He didn't know about his internal organs. All I could do was assure him that God loved him and he had to love himself. I told him that when he went to college to talk to a counselor there and they could find out to a greater degree why he felt like he was really a girl in a boy's body. I don't know what ever happened. He moved away.
There is a local ministry in the Cincinnati area called Prodigal Ministries
http://www.prodigalministries.net/
led by a young man named Jerry Armelli which ministers to and works with gays and lesbians. Jerry has spoken at the local Vineyard one weekend and he and some of his team came for a Monday night meeting of the Growth and Healing ministry.
It's a good thing that some people are starting to wake up and see the need for these types of ministries. It would be nice if the church as a whole would follow suit.
The problem isn't Jesus or His blood. The problem is with how people like this get treated by the church, before and after conversion. A lot of good it does to call people fa*****, queers, freaks, disgusting, and generally show contempt towards anyone caught in these sorts of traps. We've got a long way to go in learning how to love the sinner when it comes to homosexuals, transvestites, and transgendered people. We try to hid behind saying we love the sinner and hate the sin, but I certainly don't see alcoholics, drug addicts, adulterers, sexually promiscuous men and women, and other sinners treated the way we treat these folks. Even when we do manage to get one to convert, we still treat these people like they have the plague. It's a disgrace to everything that Jesus stands for and what Christianity is supposed to be about, in my opinion.
The Brooklyn Tabernacle has been successful in some cases working with people with these problems.
We have to distinguish between a person being homosexual (and we really don't know why) and a person who lives the homosexual life style.
I prayed with a young man several years ago that was having sexual identity problems. He was leaving for college and was not going to be around this area. I asked him if he was physically a male and he answered in the affirmative. He said he just felt like he was female inside. I realize that some folks can have outward sex organs of one sex and have internal organs of another. Also I realize that some folks have gender identity problems because they have been made to feel like the sex they are is not pleasing to a parent. Like the family that wanted a boy but when a girl was born she was always made to feel like she was a disappointment because she was a girl and the parents wished shee was a boy. He told me that his problem was not because of parental disappointment. He didn't know about his internal organs. All I could do was assure him that God loved him and he had to love himself. I told him that when he went to college to talk to a counselor there and they could find out to a greater degree why he felt like he was really a girl in a boy's body. I don't know what ever happened. He moved away.
Sounds to me like you reached out to Him in pureness. We need more of that.
It's a good thing that some people are starting to wake up and see the need for these types of ministries. It would be nice if the church as a whole would follow suit.
One man who came with his family had his male companion with him. Basically what Jerry said was that he believed the homosexual lifestyle was wrong, but if a person believed it was OK and if he/she was OK with being gay, Prodigal ministries could not help them. He did this in a very kind way with no condemnation or holier than thou attitude.
One man who came with his family had his male companion with him. Basically what Jerry said was that he believed the homosexual lifestyle was wrong, but if a person believed it was OK and if he/she was OK with being gay, Prodigal ministries could not help them. He did this in a very kind way with no condemnation or holier than thou attitude.
There's another ministry I heard about once. I can't remember the name of it. Lighthouse something or another.........
Sounds to me like you reached out to Him in pureness. We need more of that.
There's a lot we don't know about problems like that, and being older, I'm probably a lot less knowledgeable than others. What I told him to do and hope he did is to find out why he really felt like he was a girl trapped in a boy's body and then take the appropriate steps; whether that was counseling to accept and live with his maleness or if it meant pursuing his femaleness all the way even to the surgery if he could. I told him he had to do what he had to do even if his parents did not approve.
That's probably a different answer than he would get from lots of evangelical church people but it's what I thought was right for him.
There's another ministry I heard about once. I can't remember the name of it. Lighthouse something or another.........
There is Exodus International
http://www.exodus-international.org/
bkstokes
05-30-2008, 10:45 PM
Jim
I was reading in one of my church history books today about John Wimden (sp?) -- Vineyard founder -- teaching a class a Fuller Theological Seminary and practicing the gifts in the class. Did you ever hear him preach personally and what was your impression?
There's a lot we don't know about problems like that, and being older, I'm probably a lot less knowledgeable than others. What I told him to do and hope he did is to find out why he really felt like he was a girl trapped in a boy's body and then take the appropriate steps; whether that was counseling to accept and live with his maleness or if it meant pursuing his femaleness all the way even to the surgery if he could. I told him he had to do what he had to do even if his parents did not approve.
That's probably a different answer than he would get from lots of evangelical church people but it's what I thought was right for him.
Brother, for all you know those seeds of kindness you sowed that day have grown into what will cause Him to turn to God for the answers he needs. When I was in prison ministry I made a point of never, even secretly, holding their crimes against those men. Some of them literally had sentences for hundreds of years, so I knew their crimes had to be heinous. I let the devil trip me up on some stuff, and ended up having to walk away from ministry, but I always tried seeing those men for who they could be in Jesus, rather than who they were in this world.
Jim
I was reading in one of my church history books today about John Wimden (sp?) -- Vineyard founder -- teaching a class a Fuller Theological Seminary and practicing the gifts in the class. Did you ever hear him preach personally and what was your impression?
I never saw John Wimber in person.
Years ago I saw a VHS recording of him giving his testimony.
He was quite a guy. The copy I saw was borrowed. I'd like to get one of my own some time. He did believe in the gifts of the Spirit and from what I understand, some were manifest in his life. The pastor who founded the Vineyard where I went from 1992 until 2006 was mentored by him at the California (I think it was Anaheim) Vineyard. Steve Sjogren came to Cincinnati in the nineteen eighties and began a Vineyard in an apartment with another couple. The Cincinnati/Springdale Vineyard has grown to several thousand on a weekend and there are about 20 or so Vineyards in this area of Ohio that were launched from this one. In some cases, this Vineyard has paid pastor's salaries and given away many, many members to get other Vineyards going. Steve Sjogren has recently move to Florida to plant a Vineyard there. That church web site is
http://outflowchurches.com/coastlandtampa/
This is absurd....what If I, a Heterosexual male, say I am most comfortable in a womans bathroom? Do I get the same rights as Transgender freaks?
Apparently yes and no.
From Denverpost.com
Ritter signs controversial anti-discrimination bill
By John Ingold
The Denver Post
(jingold@denverpost.com?subject=The%20Denver%20Pos t:%20Ritter%20signs%20controversial%20anti-discrimination%20bill)
Article Last Updated: 05/29/2008 06:22:44 PM MDT
Gov. Bill Ritter today quietly signed a controversial bill expanding the prohibition of sexual-orientation-based discrimination, over the vocal opposition of conservative Christian groups like Focus on the Family.
The bill bans discrimination based on a person's religious belief or sexual orientation - including transgender people - in places of public accommodation, housing practices, family planning services and 20 other public spheres. Such prohibitions are already in place with regard to race.
"I think it's a step in the right direction for Coloradans and civil rights," said Sen. Jennifer Veiga, a Denver Democrat who sponsored the bill.
Ritter signed Senate Bill 200 this afternoon in his office, without any of the public ceremonies and news releases that came with six other bills he signed today. His spokesman, Evan Dreyer, said the governor was not deliberately trying to keep the signing quiet. In all, Ritter signed 20 bills today, Dreyer said.
"There were hundreds and hundreds of bills that were passed by the legislature this year," Dreyer said. "We do many ceremonies and many announcements, but in reality we do just a fraction."
But no bill this year has seen the kind of heated post-session attacks that SB 200 has. Focus on the Family launched radio ads and a media campaign urging Ritter to veto the bill.
"The state legislature here in Colorado has frankly become just about as radical and extreme as the California Legislature, in an effort that was designed to obviously appease the homosexual community give access to all public restrooms by people of the opposite gender," Focus on the Family founder James Dobson said Wednesday on his regular radio broadcast, according to an online newsletter from the organization sent out later that day.
Opponents said the bill would have serious consequences, such as opening up Colorado public restrooms and locker rooms to all genders and transgender people, exposing children and women to sexual predators.
Dreyer said opponents were running a campaign of misinformation.
"The claims that are made in this campaign are not based in fact. They are based in fear," Dreyer said.
"All this does," Dreyer added, "is it brings across-the-board consistency to existing anti-discrimination laws."
Bruce DeBoskey, the regional director of the Anti-Defamation League, said the opposition's claims were exaggerated and applauded the signing.
"We think this is another important step in making Colorado safe and inclusive and welcoming to all those who live there," he said.
Unisex restrooms could be in Colorado's future
http://www.9news.com/news/top-article.aspx?storyid=92754
DENVER - Opponents of a recently-signed anti-discrimination law say it will make all of Colorado's bathrooms unisex.
Senate Bill 200, quietly signed by Gov. Bill Ritter (D-Colorado) with little fanfare on Thursday, prohibits discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation or identity. It protects those who identify themselves as gay, bisexual or transgender from discrimination in areas including housing, business and education (http://www.9news.com/news/top-article.aspx?storyid=92754#).
The law also prohibits discrimination in "public accommodations." That is where the debate took a turn toward the toilet.
"As of right now, in the state of Colorado, we have gender-neutral bathrooms," said Gary Schneeberger of Focus on the Family. "That, to us, is a recipe for danger and disaster."
Focus on the Family launched an ad campaign in an attempt to convince Ritter not to sign the bill. The effort failed.
"It is now legal in the state of Colorado for a grown man to walk into a girl's restroom in an elementary school for whatever purpose, and it is illegal for the school to say you can't do that," said Schneeberger. "What we're really concerned about is sexual predators … who want to prey on young boys or young girls in particular, who would use the confusion caused by this law to victimize our children."
The law's proponents dismiss Focus on the Family's argument as a narrowly-tailored scare tactic that ignores the greater purpose of the law.
"This is an important step forward for the state to make the state's laws of fairness and justice applicable to everyone who lives here," said Bruce DeBoskey, executive director of the Anti-Defamation League's Rocky Mountain chapter.
"It's not controversial. It's not a stretch. It's not an exaggeration," he said.
The bill's sponsor, Sen. Jennifer Veiga (D-Denver) was unavailable for comment Friday afternoon.
The governor signed the bill privately. When reached for a comment Friday afternoon, his spokesman said Ritter would be available for a public comment on Monday.
Dan, Dobson is doing what he always does, putting his own brand of spin on this issue.
Dan, Dobson is doing what he always does, putting his own brand of spin on this issue.
Could be ... Don't forget he does live in the state and so he also has a greater stake in this.
jezebelslayer
05-31-2008, 08:02 AM
What a bunch of HOGWASH! How many transgenderd children do you know or have heard of?
I agree ... there seems to be some hysteria going on here. Don't be so blind to think that predetors aren't already waiting in or around bathrooms or any public place. Common sense and discernment needs to be used all the time where your safety is concerned. In Europe most restrooms are for both genders... It was a bit strange at first... but you get used to it. :drama
Ritter signs bill giving gays equal access to accommodations
May 29, 2008 - 7:26PM
By MARK BARNA
THE GAZETTE
Gov. Bill Ritter on Thursday signed a bill that makes it illegal in Colorado to discriminate against gays, bisexuals and transgendered people when buying a home, renting an apartment or using public accommodations.
"The governor felt that this bill, SB200, was about fairness and treating people equally," said Evan Dreyer, spokesman for the governor's office. "It essentially updates anti-discrimination laws that in some cases have not been updated for 50 years."
Bruce DeBoskey, regional director of Denver's Anti-Defamation League, a civil rights organization, said the law is a step forward for Coloradans.
"No one should be denied housing or public accommodations solely because of his or her sexual preference," DeBoskey said.
One aspect of the law enables transgenders - those who were born one gender but identify with the other - to use public restrooms in which they feel most comfortable.
Beginning May 21, Focus on the Family and Colorado Family Action began sponsoring radio advertisements on four radio stations in Colorado Springs and Denver denouncing the bill.
The ads warned that cross-dressing predators could endanger children by using restrooms designated for the opposite sex.
Focus founder James Dobson said Thursday:
"Who would believe that the Colorado state Legislature and its governor would have made it legal for men to enter and use women's restrooms and locker room facilities without notice or explanation?
"Henceforth, every woman and little girl will have to fear that a predator, bisexual, cross-dresser or even a homosexual or heterosexual male might walk in and relieve himself in their presence."
DeBoskey denounced Dobson's view.
"It is unfortunate that they feel they have to exaggerate the dangers and play on people's fears," DeBoskey said. "This law is about fairness and justice for all people living in this state."
Last May, Sen. Jennifer Veiga, D-Denver, introduced the forerunner to SB200 known as SB25, a bill that prohibits employment discrimination against gays, bisexuals and transgendered people. Ritter signed it into law. SB200, which Veiga also introduced, extends the rights of these people to housing and public accommodations.
"This is a law whose time has come," said Ryan Acker, executive director of the Pikes Peak Gay and Lesbian Community Center in Colorado Springs.
"The passing of this bill shows that Colorado is a progressive state."
------------------------------
A transgender agenda has passed in Colorado. Allowing men in women's bathrooms. We are in deep trouble folks!!!!
Social re-engineering now is on the forefront ... Teachers will have to teach kids that it's okay for Joey to be a girl today and allow him to go in the girl's bathroom
Sickening.
I haven't had time to read this thread but the title reminded me of my first exposure to unisex bathrooms.
Back in 1976 when I was 17 years old I went to Europe for five weeks with a group of college students. Most of the time we stayed in inexpensive hotels but in Paris we stayed at the "Internationanl Student Center".
It was a modern building around ten stories high if memory serves me correct. Most of the rooms were like a youth hostel with four or five beds but I lucked out and got one of the few private rooms.
However the first night there when I went to find the bathroom there was only one bathroom per floor and it was a large unisex one!
It had many stalls and a rather open shower area. I freaked out. I set my clock for something like 4:45 am in the morning and went in, locked the main door, and had the giant bathroom / shower room all to myself!
Encryptus
05-31-2008, 11:54 AM
Europe has had public unisex restrooms for decades.
Praxeas
05-31-2008, 01:23 PM
Dan, Dobson is doing what he always does, putting his own brand of spin on this issue.
I don't think so. I think what he is doing is like what most of us do. We look at an idea and look at the possible and dangerous conclusions such a law can bring to our society. This is also why they oppose gay "Marriages". They are not opposed to gay civil unions.
Praxeas
05-31-2008, 01:26 PM
I agree ... there seems to be some hysteria going on here. Don't be so blind to think that predetors aren't already waiting in or around bathrooms or any public place. Common sense and discernment needs to be used all the time where your safety is concerned. In Europe most restrooms are for both genders... It was a bit strange at first... but you get used to it. :drama
They ARE already waiting, but this bill can make it MORE accessable.
A "transgendered" man can walk into a womans bathroom LEGALLY now and nobody can blow the whistle....in the past that would be a red flag. Now it is legally and officially sanctioned....he just might be in there with a camera taking pictures of someone's little girl.
As he walks out, nobody can stop him. No cop can stop him and question him and check his person out for such things as a camera....because he has a legal right as a "transgendered" individual to go into that bathroom
Praxeas
05-31-2008, 01:31 PM
I haven't had time to read this thread but the title reminded me of my first exposure to unisex bathrooms.
Back in 1976 when I was 17 years old I went to Europe for five weeks with a group of college students. Most of the time we stayed in inexpensive hotels but in Paris we stayed at the "Internationanl Student Center".
It was a modern building around ten stories high if memory serves me correct. Most of the rooms were like a youth hostel with four or five beds but I lucked out and got one of the few private rooms.
However the first night there when I went to find the bathroom there was only one bathroom per floor and it was a large unisex one!
It had many stalls and a rather open shower area. I freaked out. I set my clock for something like 4:45 am in the morning and went in, locked the main door, and had the giant bathroom / shower room all to myself!
Back then at that age I was not in the church...I know for a fact bro I would have woke that early and watched to see when the ladies went into shower :-)
Im not surprised though that this is the case in Europe. And I am not surprised that it is or will be happening here. Just like the Muslims invading England and warning about it happening here...as it is...it falls on deaf ears. Instead many here are no longer practicing Christians...like Europe and the many that claim to be practicing are falling to the PC crowd and fear being labeled a "conservative" in the vein of James Dobson.
This is why the gay agenda is over taking our nation, never mind that gays are a small small small voting minority with not enough power to do it otherwise...they rely on activism and activist judges.
Our nation is screwed IMO unless all Christians stop being trampled on and lying down for the enemy
Praxeas
05-31-2008, 01:31 PM
Europe has had public unisex restrooms for decades.
Europe has been a group of nations in spiritual darkness for a long time too
Cindy
05-31-2008, 01:33 PM
You notice this is all about adults right? No children will be harmed. The Governor of Colorado is saying, well predators always find a way to choose victims, so I decided it's worth the risk, so people that can VOTE have a voice. Children can't vote so they don't matter. And apparently if the legislator's and the Governor have children they would never be exposed to public restrooms so no worries.
Encryptus
05-31-2008, 01:42 PM
Europe has been a group of nations in spiritual darkness for a long time too
Because of their public restrooms????
:toofunny
Praxeas
05-31-2008, 01:43 PM
Because of their public restrooms????
:toofunny
No....that along with other things are the result.
Grasshopper
05-31-2008, 01:54 PM
I don't see this lasting long. All it will take is one lawsuit showing out this statute endangered a minor. Hopefully we will see grass roots action to change this at some point in the near future before it comes to that.
I don't see this lasting long. All it will take is one lawsuit showing out this statute endangered a minor. Hopefully we will see grass roots action to change this at some point in the near future before it comes to that.
Did you see where someone posted that this is the 20th state to pass legislation like this? I haven't heard about any lawsuits even being filed so far. I thought this whole thing was a first for America. Apparently I thought wrong.
Mrs. LPW
05-31-2008, 02:21 PM
This thread is long, and has morphed a bit... so forgive me if I'm repeating something someone else has asked or hijacking in anyway. (I don't think the latter is possible now though. :) )
So what do you all think. Would God allow someone to be born with the anatomy of a woman, but be a man? Or vice versa?
If you do believe that, do you believe that God expects the person to live as they were born? Or do you believe He would somehow allow them to change themselves into the opposite sex?
Does God make mistakes?
Praxeas
05-31-2008, 02:24 PM
This thread is long, and has morphed a bit... so forgive me if I'm repeating something someone else has asked or hijacking in anyway. (I don't think the latter is possible now though. :) )
So what do you all think. Would God allow someone to be born with the anatomy of a woman, but be a man? Or vice versa?
If you do believe that, do you believe that God expects the person to live as they were born? Or do you believe He would somehow allow them to change themselves into the opposite sex?
Does God make mistakes?
No I do not believe that.
However hermaphrodites are another issue
Mrs. LPW
05-31-2008, 02:28 PM
No I do not believe that.
However hermaphrodites are another issue
Yes...
Another can of worms altogether.
Those who say they are really men "inside" or women "inside"... those are the ones I am referring to.
This thread is long, and has morphed a bit... so forgive me if I'm repeating something someone else has asked or hijacking in anyway. (I don't think the latter is possible now though. :) )
So what do you all think. Would God allow someone to be born with the anatomy of a woman, but be a man? Or vice versa?
If you do believe that, do you believe that God expects the person to live as they were born? Or do you believe He would somehow allow them to change themselves into the opposite sex?
Does God make mistakes?
This is the same type of question people ask about other deviancies, like homosexuality. The issue of transgendered people, along with homosexuality are the result of man's fallen nature in the sight of God. So, no, God doesn't make the mistake, sin causes the mistake. :)
Mrs. LPW
05-31-2008, 02:34 PM
This is the same type of question people ask about other deviancies, like homosexuality. The issue of transgendered people, along with homosexuality are the result of man's fallen nature in the sight of God. So, no, God doesn't make the mistake, sin causes the mistake. :)
Glad to hear you say that!
Now what of the question... should we be living as we were born?
Glad to hear you say that!
Now what of the question... should we be living as we were born?
You didn't actually think I would get on a Christian forum and advocate that God makes mistakes, did you? I'd have so many cyber feet stuck in my backside that I wouldn't be able to walk for weeks!!! :toofunny
I do, however, think that science will eventually find deficiencies in the brains of those who suffer from deviant behaviours. Even still, those deficiencies would be caused by man's fallen nature, not any mistake on the part of God.
If scientific proof that such deficiencies exist is ever found, us Christians will have an even bigger battle to fight against those who would use the information to discredit the truth of God's Word. Thank God that His Word comes with its own power to shine the light of truth over any form of darkness. :bliss
To answer your question: Yes, I believe we should live the gender that we are born. However, what I believe doesn't mean a hill of beans to those who suffer from gender issues. That leaves me with two choices. I can either find a way to show Jesus to them or write them off as unreachable.
Hoovie
05-31-2008, 02:50 PM
No I do not believe that.
However hermaphrodites are another issue
My thoughts as well
Mrs. LPW
05-31-2008, 02:53 PM
You didn't actually think I would get on a Christian forum and advocate that God makes mistakes, did you? I'd have so many cyber feet stuck in my backside that I wouldn't be able to walk for weeks!!! :toofunny
I do, however, think that science will eventually find deficiencies in the brains of those who suffer from deviant behaviours. Even still, those deficiencies would be caused by man's fallen nature, not any mistake on the part of God.
If scientific proof that such deficiencies exist is ever found, us Christians will have an even bigger battle to fight against those who would use the information to discredit the truth of God's Word. Thank God that His Word comes with its own power to shine the light of truth over any form of darkness. :bliss
To answer your question: Yes, I believe we should live the gender that we are born. However, what I believe doesn't mean a hill of beans to those who suffer from gender issues. That leaves me with two choices. I can either find a way to show Jesus to them or write them off as unreachable.
:yourock
DanielR
06-01-2008, 04:06 PM
They ARE already waiting, but this bill can make it MORE accessable.
A "transgendered" man can walk into a womans bathroom LEGALLY now and nobody can blow the whistle....in the past that would be a red flag. Now it is legally and officially sanctioned....he just might be in there with a camera taking pictures of someone's little girl.
As he walks out, nobody can stop him. No cop can stop him and question him and check his person out for such things as a camera....because he has a legal right as a "transgendered" individual to go into that bathroom
Does anybody know how big a problem this "IS" in Europe now where they have had unisex restrooms for years?
Does anybody know how big a problem this "IS" in Europe now where they have had unisex restrooms for years?
I would venture to guess it isn't that big an issue. Christians in America have a tendency to cling to Victorian era attitudes about seeing exposed human flesh.
DanielR
06-01-2008, 04:24 PM
I would venture to guess it isn't that big an issue. Christians in America have a tendency to cling to Victorian era attitudes about seeing exposed human flesh.
Yeah I know. I've been working with people that have threw off the Victorian attitudes for years. They are a challenge to lead to Christ because of the American churches Victorian attitiudes about a creation made in God's image.
As much as a supposedly Christian nation that America is, she leads the world in sexually deviant crimes...sad!
Yeah I know. I've been working with people that have threw off the Victorian attitudes for years. They are a challenge to lead to Christ because of the American churches Victorian attitiudes about a creation made in God's image.
As much as a supposedly Christian nation that America is, she leads the world in sexually deviant crimes...sad!
I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't the result of so many years of people believing that sex was dirty and something that shouldn't be talked about openly. Once that wall of silence was broken through in the 60s a flood of sexuality hit this country like a tidal wave. It make take a generation or two for those waters to recede.
DanielR
06-01-2008, 04:53 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't the result of so many years of people believing that sex was dirty and something that shouldn't be talked about openly. Once that wall of silence was broken through in the 60s a flood of sexuality hit this country like a tidal wave. It make take a generation or two for those waters to recede.
That may be apart of it, but I think it also involves the lack of skin exposure in non-sexual situations. I've seen Europian style commercials (via you tube and simular services) where they openly use nudity is situations where nudity would be expected (as in a shower for a body wash add) which as I'm told would go out on the TV through the free airwaves. In America, every time we see skin through the media, it's almost always in a sexual context. Although that tide is beginning to change with some of the more recent commercials.
I'm not suggesting that we should all dress immodestly, but if the American society would allow skin to be shown outside of a sexual context maybe we as a whole wouldn't have a skin=sex mindset, thereby moving toward a status where we no longer lead the world in deviant sexual crimes. Of course, that's just my opinion and it's not worth the advertised price of 2cents.
That may be apart of it, but I think it also involves the lack of skin exposure in non-sexual situations. I've seen Europian style commercials (via you tube and simular services) where they openly use nudity is situations where nudity would be expected (as in a shower for a body wash add) which as I'm told would go out on the TV through the free airwaves. In America, every time we see skin through the media, it's almost always in a sexual context. Although that tide is beginning to change with some of the more recent commercials.
I'm not suggesting that we should all dress immodestly, but if the American society would allow skin to be shown outside of a sexual context maybe we as a whole wouldn't have a skin=sex mindset, thereby moving toward a status where we no longer lead the world in deviant sexual crimes. Of course, that's just my opinion and it's not worth the advertised price of 2cents.
Exactly! Nudity is connected to sexuality constantly, rather than portraying it in its natural place in our lives. A perfect example would be showing people getting into a bed while they are naked. The only time we see naked people getting into or out of a bed in movies and tv shows is when they are going to have sex or waking up the next morning after having sex the night before. Therefore, we get the mindset that the only time we take off our clothes and get into bed is when we are going to have sex. That's the wrong mindset to have.
Nahum
06-01-2008, 07:10 PM
That's it, I'm moving to Colorado!
That's it, I'm moving to Colorado!
:killinme You are soooooooooooooo not right!
Nahum
06-01-2008, 07:42 PM
That's it, I'm moving to Colorado!
:killinme You are soooooooooooooo not right!
:bliss:bliss:bliss:bliss
C'mon now Rico, tell m e you didn't think the same thing!!!! LOL
I predict a 95% increase in male immigrants to Colorado in the next month.
:bliss:bliss:bliss:bliss
C'mon now Rico, tell m e you didn't think the same thing!!!! LOL
I predict a 95% increase in male immigrants to Colorado in the next month.
Brother, I got all I can handle taking care of what I got at home. Wouldn't have it any other way either. :)
Nahum
06-01-2008, 07:45 PM
Brother, I got all I can handle taking care of what I got at home. Wouldn't have it any other way either. :)
Jes joshing ya Bro!:toofunny
HeavenlyOne
06-01-2008, 08:46 PM
This thread is long, and has morphed a bit... so forgive me if I'm repeating something someone else has asked or hijacking in anyway. (I don't think the latter is possible now though. :) )
So what do you all think. Would God allow someone to be born with the anatomy of a woman, but be a man? Or vice versa?
If you do believe that, do you believe that God expects the person to live as they were born? Or do you believe He would somehow allow them to change themselves into the opposite sex?
Does God make mistakes?
The answer is yes. Why, I don't know. Ever heard of hermaphrodites? They are individuals born with both sex organs. They are both male and female...on the outside. Their DNA is messed up as well. They might test as a male but grow breasts, or test as a female and have facial hair.
There are also anomalies that have taken place where things weren't as they appeared. Why God allows that to happen, I don't know. But yes, God makes mistakes...in that regard.
The answer is yes. Why, I don't know. Ever heard of hermaphrodites? They are individuals born with both sex organs. They are both male and female...on the outside. Their DNA is messed up as well. They might test as a male but grow breasts, or test as a female and have facial hair.
There are also anomalies that have taken place where things weren't as they appeared. Why God allows that to happen, I don't know. But yes, God makes mistakes...in that regard.
Is it God that made the mistake ... or are these anomolies ... mutatative defects a result of sin?
Encryptus
06-03-2008, 08:02 AM
Is it God that made the mistake ... or are these anomolies ... mutatative defects a result of sin?
Or evolution?
Is it God that made the mistake ... or are these anomolies ... mutatative defects a result of sin?
What Dan said.
God doesn't make mistakes.
El Predicador
06-03-2008, 08:52 AM
That's it, I'm moving to Colorado!
Interesting fetish you have there.
Depending on where you live might be cheaper to just visit internet sites instead of moving.
:toofunny
pelathais
06-03-2008, 10:30 AM
That's it, I'm moving to Colorado!
:killinme You are soooooooooooooo not right!
:bliss:bliss:bliss:bliss
C'mon now Rico, tell m e you didn't think the same thing!!!! LOL
I predict a 95% increase in male immigrants to Colorado in the next month.
Colorado also has a very workable conceal/carry permit law. I recommend that that the ladies behave as ladies and the gentlemen behave as gentlemen. An armed society is a polite society.
HeavenlyOne
06-03-2008, 06:59 PM
Is it God that made the mistake ... or are these anomolies ... mutatative defects a result of sin?
Both. Don't misunderstand that I believe God makes mistakes as if He did so on accident like we do. But if God is the creator of us all, then yes, He makes mistakes. At the same time, yes, they are mutative defects or sometimes a cell that didn't divide correctly to make twins, extra chromasomes, etc.
Why does He allow those anomalies to happen, I don't know.
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