Forum is Ex-Pentecostal??

[Rico]

I am starting a poll. I have a simple question for you. It doesn't involve standards, steps in salvation, whether speaking in tongues is initial evidence of Holy Ghost infilling or anything similar. The question is this:


Is AFF an Ex-Pentecostal Forum?


This poll is private, so no one will know your vote but you.




Sidenote: You decide for yourself what "pentecostal" means.

[Mrs. LPW]

Where's the poll?

Ah.. there it is.

Where's the undecided option?

[Pressing-On]

I am starting a poll. I have a simple question for you. It doesn't involve standards, steps in salvation, whether speaking in tongues is initial evidence of Holy Ghost infilling or anything similar. The question is this:


Is AFF an Ex-Pentecostal Forum?


This poll is private, so no one will know your vote but you.

Do you mean Ex-UPC or Ex-Pentecostal?

[Scott Hutchinson]

I believe in the initial evidence doctrine,I consider myself a Pentecostal or Spirit Filled Christian.
I believe alot of the crowd here is classical pentecostal with a moderate or liberal bent.

[Rico]

Do you mean Ex-UPC or Ex-Pentecostal?

Ex-Pentecostal. It's obvious there are a lot of ex-upc folks here.

[Praxeas]

How can a forum be "ex pentecostal" unless it's purpose is to oppose Pentecostalism? Just because we have some members that don't believe tongues is evidence does not make the forum itself ex pentecostal

[AmericanAngel]

I wouldn't know...haven't been on here long enough! :gaga

[Scott Hutchinson]

One doesn't have to be UPCI to be considered Oneness Pentecostal.

[Pressing-On]

Ex-Pentecostal. It's obvious there are a lot of ex-upc folks here.
Okay, just clarifying.

[Pressing-On]

One doesn't have to be UPCI to be considered Oneness Pentecostal.

Yes you do. I read that somewhere!!! :happydance :toofunny

[AmericanAngel]

Hi brother Scott H.!!!!!!!!!!!!:happydance:kittyhug

[Scott Hutchinson]

I know folks whom I would consider too liberal but are pretty dogmatic on the initial evidence of the Holy Ghost baptism being speaking in tongues.

[TalkLady]

I have never been Pentecostal. "Pentecost" did not die for me. I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ!...Jesus Christ died for me. He is my best friend, Healer, Saviour, Lord of Lords and soon coming King....Why not call ourselves by His Name as we do in baptism? Not trying to stir the pot, but stating how I feel about "Pentecost" being how I identify myself. God bless. I just think He must love it when the Church is called by His name.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Hello American Angel how are you ?

[Pressing-On]

I have never been Pentecostal. "Pentecost" did not die for me. I am a member of The Church of Jesus Christ!...He died for me. Why not call ourselves by His Name as we do in baptism? Not trying to stir the pot, but stating how I feel about "Pentecost" being how I identify myself. God bless.

I think the implication is that you have spoken in tongues as the Spirit of God has given the utterance or that you just have a prayer language.

:bliss:bliss:bliss

[AmericanAngel]

Hello American Angel how are you ?
BLESSED!!!!!:bliss

[Hoovie]

Ex-Pentecostal. It's obvious there are a lot of ex-upc folks here.

How could they possibly qualify as ex-Pentecostal? It means nothing really.

Did you mean ex UPC??

[Hoovie]

By the reading of this poll any good AOG member is "Pentecostal".

There is no "Oneness qualification.

The "Oneness arm of Pentecostalism is actually dwarfed by the Trinitarian Pentecostal believers.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I think what our brother is asking do many here believe in being baptized with the Holy Ghost without speaking in tongues ?

[Hoovie]

I think what our brother is asking do many here believe in being baptized with the Holy Ghost without speaking in tongues ?

Uh... I don't know that neither do the hundreds who read here. It is especially important to say what you mean in a poll - otherwise why bother?

[bkstokes]

I am ex upc, but I am not ex pentecostal. I still pray in the spirit and believe that it is the intial evidence of someone receiving the Holy Ghost. I still also believe in the oneness of God and baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

[Hoovie]

I am ex upc, but I am not ex pentecostal. I still pray in the spirit and believe that it is the intial evidence of someone receiving the Holy Ghost. I still also believe in the oneness of God and baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.

Even this does not define "Pentecostal". One UPCI General Superintendent did NOT pray in tongues. (though he did in tongues once when filled with the Spirit)

[Rico]

How could they possibly qualify as ex-Pentecostal? It means nothing really.

Did you mean ex UPC??

I am aware of that, SH. I promise you I am not one of these people who believes the UPCI is the be all and end all in Pentecost. I don't even go to church right now, let alone go to a UPC church.

[Rico]

By the reading of this poll any good AOG member is "Pentecostal".

There is no "Oneness qualification.

The "Oneness arm of Pentecostalism is actually dwarfed by the Trinitarian Pentecostal believers.

SH, please, don't try to read more into the question than what is there. I saw on another thread where someone else claimed that AFF is an ex-pentecostal site and wanted to emphatically show that person that they are wrong in their assessment.

[Hoovie]

I am aware of that, SH. I promise you I am not one of these people who believes the UPCI is the be all and end all in Pentecost. I don't even go to church right now, let alone go to a UPC church.

why?

[Rico]

why?

:) Topic for another thread, Bro. I've been open about it all along, so I am surprised you didn't know it. Unless of course, you ignore everything I say!!:boxing :D

[bkstokes]

So Rico

Is the thread you posted earlier today the reason why you don't go to church?

[Hoovie]

:) Topic for another thread, Bro. I've been open about it all along, so I am surprised you didn't know it. Unless of course, you ignore everything I say!!:boxing :D

You have made reference to this in the past, I just don't recall if you said why.

[Rico]

You have made reference to this in the past, I just don't recall if you said why.

Mainly because I can't stand being around church folk for very long. That, and I don't believe in the Big C. (I think I can already hear CC1, insult in hand, on his way.)

[Hoovie]

SH, please, don't try to read more into the question than what is there. I saw on another thread where someone else claimed that AFF is an ex-pentecostal site and wanted to emphatically show that person that they are wrong in their assessment.

This is why it then includes all "Pentecostals". (that is OK - my vote would not change either way.)

There are many who are not daily viewers and contributors and take this stuff at face value.

[Hoovie]

Mainly because I can't stand being around church folk for very long.

I recommend avoiding small "family churches" then.

Find a place you can worship corporately without getting real intimate with the fellow members - that can come later, as you feel more comfortable.

[bkstokes]

Mainly because I can't stand being around church folk for very long. That, and I don't believe in the Big C. (I think I can already hear CC1, insult in hand, on his way.)

You mean celebrating communion?

[Rico]

This is why it then includes all "Pentecostals".

There are many who are not daily viewers and contributors and take this stuff at face value.

That's exactly how I intended for people to take it; at face value. Y'all are grown enough to determine what "pentecostal" means for yourselves.

[Rico]

I recommend avoiding small "family churches" then.

Find a place you can worship corporately without getting real intimate with the fellow members - that can come later, as you feel more comfortable.

Actually, my family and another family are getting ready to do some house meetings with each other. Can't get any smaller than that. It's not the size I have issues with, it's prevalent attitudes I see displayed in churches, whether small or large.

[Rico]

You mean celebrating communion?

Uhhhhhhh, no. Guys, can we get off this? This thread is about being pentecostal. :)

[bkstokes]

Uhhhhhhh, no. Guys, can we get off this? This thread is about being pentecostal. :)

Ok Rico

I won't ask you anyone but by your comments I can tell you have a Roman Catholic background.

[Hoovie]

The BIG C would be Christ - of course!

It helps to keep things in perspective, don't ya think Rico?

...and now we return to the regularly scheduled posting about "being Pentecostal"...


:)

[Rico]

Ok Rico

I won't ask you anyone but by your comments I can tell you have a Roman Catholic background.

Dude, I have never set foot in a Catholic Church. Well, I did once, so I could see all the statues mounted on the walls. :lol

[Michael Phelps]

That's exactly how I intended for people to take it; at face value. Y'all are grown enough to determine what "pentecostal" means for yourselves.

THe only way to determine the true answer to your question is to poll each member independently and find out where they stand. THen, the majority rules.

HOw else can you quantify a question like this?

[Rico]

THe only way to determine the true answer to your question is to poll each member independently and find out where they stand. THen, the majority rules.

HOw else can you quantify a question like this?

I asked the question because someone else made the statement.

[Rico]

Man! Tryin to get y'all to answer a simple question is like pulling teeth! LOL 134 views and only 11 votes in a private poll. Thank you to everyone who has voted so far.

[Michael Phelps]

I asked the question because someone else made the statement.

Understood.

I think this is one of those things that is in the eye of the beholder.

To many on this forum, it probably is an ex-Pentecostal forum. How can you change someone's perception.

I will readily admit that it seems that there are not as many ultra cons posting these days to balance it out, but there are still a few!

[mizpeh]

Understood.

I think this is one of those things that is in the eye of the beholder.

To many on this forum, it probably is an ex-Pentecostal forum. How can you change someone's perception.

I will readily admit that it seems that there are not as many ultra cons posting these days to balance it out, but there are still a few!

If we go by the poll, there are 12 lib/mods to 1 ultracon. There is no balance!:tissue

[Glenda B]

Charasmatics call themselves Pentecostal,
But quite a number who post here are backslid,
By their own admission to giving up things
they once believed to be the truth.

[Nahum]

This forum is definitely ex-Oneness-Pentecostal.

[SDG]

This forum is definitely ex-Oneness-Pentecostal.

Got a conspiracy theory to prove it?

[Nahum]

Got a conspiracy theory to prove it?

Who needs one?

[Nahum]

Look, I don't think a poll is the proper method of determination here.

Many people will vote who won't post.

The fact is, the majority of those who post are exOP, anti-OP or headed for the door.

AFF draws them like flies.

[CC1]

It makes no sense to poll whether this forum is Pentecostal or Ex Pentecostal. It is quite clear that 98% of the people posting here are Pentecostal of one stripe or another.

I only know of one or two posters who do not attend a Pentecostal church.

Now if you want to poll whether it is an exUPC forum that would make more sense as there appears to be at least as many exUPC folks on here as UPC ones.

[SDG]

It makes no sense to poll whether this forum is Pentecostal or Ex Pentecostal. It is quite clear that 98% of the people posting here are Pentecostal of one stripe or another.

I only know of one or two posters who do not attend a Pentecostal church.

Now if you want to poll whether it is an exUPC forum that would make more sense as there appears to be at least as many exUPC folks on here as UPC ones.

Why confuse us w/ the facts ... CC1.

Please let PP continue on his hyperbolic tirade.

[SDG]

I don't think we many non-Oneness posters here either ... which puts a serious dent in PP's broohaha.

[Nahum]

Why confuse us w/ the facts ... CC1.

Please let PP continue on his hyperbolic tirade.

:bliss

Dannyboy, do we really want to do this tonight?

Are you really attempting to say that the majority of AFF is pro-Oneness Pentecostalism?

Talk about hyperbole!:blah

Look, I'm not complaining. It is what it is.

I'm just sayin'.

[SDG]

:bliss

Dannyboy, do we really want to do this tonight?

Are you really attempting to say that the majority of AFF is pro-Oneness Pentecostalism?

Talk about hyperbole!:blah

Look, I'm not complaining. It is what it is.

I'm just sayin'.

I think it's pretty offensive for you to accuse the bulk of the readers as not being Oneness in their theology, PP.

But this tact is not foreign to many in your shrinking circle.

No one ever measures up ... quite enough.

[Cindy]

It is getting to the point that I can't find a thread on AFF to really enjoy anymore. Y'all are making me sad and my heart is hurting.

[Cindy]

And I am not voting in any poll private or not.

[SDG]

It is getting to the point that I can't find a thread on AFF to really enjoy anymore. Y'all are making me sad and my heart is hurting.


PP, you've hurt her feelings. She's more Apostolic/Oneness Pentecostal than you'll ever be.

[Nahum]

I don't think we many non-Oneness posters here either ... which puts a serious dent in PP's broohaha.

Here is my conspiracy theory for the evening.:drama

Daniel, for you to have any street cred on this site, you cling (very loosely) to the generic titles of Apostolic and/or Oneness Pentecostal.

Now, mind you, 4395% of your posts are anti-Oneness Pentecostal, but you know how to do the deal. You just claim to be OP and Apostolic (whatever that means) and most people are gullible enough, and dumb enough, to buy it.

This helps you in your agenda to convert most lurkers.

Let me compliment you.

You are the best I've seen at it.


Love ya Man!:bliss

[CC1]

:bliss

Dannyboy, do we really want to do this tonight?

Are you really attempting to say that the majority of AFF is pro-Oneness Pentecostalism?

Talk about hyperbole!:blah

Look, I'm not complaining. It is what it is.

I'm just sayin'.

PP,

Toleration and a lack of condemnation of trinitarianism is not mutually exclusive with being "pro-Oneness"

I can only speak for myself (and have a hard time doing that at times!) but I am absolutely Onenes in view and wish that all of Christendom were.

However I do not believe one having a different view of the makeup of the godhead than I do precludes salavation unless that view is polytheistic and trainitarians are not.

That is the false bogeyman used to demonize them by many Oneness folks just as trinitarians have demonized Oneness folks by characterizing them as "Jesus Only".

A much bigger bother to me than our differences with trinitarians on the godhead is the formula for water baptism.

Although I am of the PCI view that baptism is subsequent to salvation and is a sacrament, symbol, etc, I still believe the biblical command is for it to be done in Jesus name.

So while I don't believe being baptized in the titles will deny one salvation I do believe they are not following God's word as well as can be done and we should all strive to follow God's words as best we can.

[SDG]

Here is my conspiracy theory for the evening.:drama

Daniel, for you to have any street cred on this site, you cling (very loosely) to the generic titles of Apostolic and/or Oneness Pentecostal.

Now, mind you, 4395% of your posts are anti-Oneness Pentecostal, but you know how to do the deal. You just claim to be OP and Apostolic (whatever that means) and most people are gullible enough, and dumb enough, to buy it.

This helps you in your agenda to convert most lurkers.

Let me compliment you.

You are the best I've seen at it.


Love ya Man!:bliss

PP,

Thinks many of the readers here are dumb and gullible. Let's go to press.

Tell us what you really think PP.

Any more fictional Big Bad Wolf stories?

[Nahum]

I think it's pretty offensive for you to accuse the bulk of the readers as not being Oneness in their theology, PP.

But this tact is not foreign to many in your shrinking circle.

No one ever measures up ... quite enough.

Sic em Fido!:boxing

I see the name calling and marginalization never ends.

Your attempts to paint me as an ultracon are simply fruity and, honestly, very entertaining.

[CC1]

It is getting to the point that I can't find a thread on AFF to really enjoy anymore. Y'all are making me sad and my heart is hurting.

It is probably just indigestion. Take a Pecid AC or two rolaids and call the Dr. in the morning if it's not better!:bliss:happydance:gaga:toofunny

[Nahum]

PP,

Toleration and a lack of condemnation of trinitarianism is not mutually exclusive with being "pro-Oneness"

I can only speak for myself (and have a hard time doing that at times!) but I am absolutely Onenes in view and wish that all of Christendom were.

However I do not believe one having a different view of the makeup of the godhead than I do precludes salavation unless that view is polytheistic and trainitarians are not.

That is the false bogeyman used to demonize them by many Oneness folks just as trinitarians have demonized Oneness folks by characterizing them as "Jesus Only".

A much bigger bother to me than our differences with trinitarians on the godhead is the formula for water baptism.

Although I am of the PCI view that baptism is subsequent to salvation and is a sacrament, symbol, etc, I still believe the biblical command is for it to be done in Jesus name.

So while I don't believe being baptized in the titles will deny one salvation I do believe they are not following God's word as well as can be done and we should all strive to follow God's words as best we can.

CC1, you're a peach.

[SDG]

Sic em Fido!:boxing

I see the name calling and marginalization never ends.

Your attempts to paint me as an ultracon are simply fruity and, honestly, very entertaining.

If thou sayest.

[SDG]

CC1, you're a peach.

From ex-Oneness Pentecostal to a peach ... all in one post.

Damage control?

[Nahum]

PP,

Thinks many of the readers here are dumb and gullible. Let's go to press.

Tell us what you really think PP.

Any more fictional Big Bad Wolf stories?

Are you saying my "conspiracy theory" is wrong?

That you are here to strengthen traditional OP doctrinal stands of Oneness doctrine, Jesus Name Baptism and Holy Ghost infilling? If so I'm shocked! None of your posts seem to indicate that sort of doctrinal proclivity.

[KwaiQ]

There is nothing apostolic about apostolic friends forum imho.

[Kay B]

It is getting to the point that I can't find a thread on AFF to really enjoy anymore. Y'all are making me sad and my heart is hurting.

Hey sis I'm here and you know where I stand.:bliss :kittyhug

[Nahum]

See Danny, when you get mud in your eye you start flailing wildly. It's so funny.

When, on this thread, have I railed on anybody for being EXOP?

I state an opinion and next thing I know you need a Prozac IV.

[Steve Epley]

I am a One God-Apostolic-Pentecostal-Baptized in Jesus Name can't remember the old song but that is me.

[SDG]

Are you saying my "conspiracy theory" is wrong?

That you are here to strengthen traditional OP doctrinal stands of Oneness doctrine, Jesus Name Baptism and Holy Ghost infilling? If so I'm shocked! None of your posts seem to indicate that sort of doctrinal proclivity.

If by traditional you mean your 3 step view ... than sorry I don't promote it ... as you don't strengthen the one step view. Actually you do quite the opposite w/ your very predictable .. yet sporadic tirades.

Difference between you and me, my friend is that .... You'd rather build walls w/ a fragment of the Body of Christ.

[mizpeh]

Why confuse us w/ the facts ... CC1.

Please let PP continue on his hyperbolic tirade.

Dan, why do you always try to discredit PP by insinuating that he is "hyperbolic (exaggerating)", "hysterical", having a "tirade" which implies you are calm, level headed, and able to discuss things reasonably? Are you marginalizing his concerns?

[StMark]

What started all this hoopla ????

[CC1]

CC1, you're a peach.

Soft and fuzzy? LOL!!!!!

It sure is good to see you posting.

[mizpeh]

I think it's pretty offensive for you to accuse the bulk of the readers as not being Oneness in their theology, PP.

But this tact is not foreign to many in your shrinking circle.

No one ever measures up ... quite enough.

Dan, here you go again! You'd be surprised how Trinitarians regard Oneness Pentecostals! They see the doctrines of OP' s to be identical to that of the UPC, the largest OP organization! Even Trinitarians would agree with PP!

Not all those who leave the UPC leave the basic doctrine, either, Dan. You may want to marginalize PP again by calling the UPC " your shrinking circle" but you would be wrong.

[CC1]

I have always felt there very well could be a wave of understanding regarding baptism in Jesus name among trinitarians while their view of the godhead might not change.

When I was UPC because we viewed it all as a package (3 step salvation) I never heard anyone even consider this possibility.

It would at least be a first step from a three stepper persepctive and would be a giant step from mine!

[mizpeh]

If by traditional you mean your 3 step view ... than sorry I don't promote it ... as you don't strengthen the one step view. Actually you do quite the opposite w/ your very predictable .. yet sporadic tirades.

Difference between you and me, my friend is that .... You'd rather build walls w/ a fragment of the Body of Christ.

Come on, Dan, you don't represent the PCI view at all. If you did, you would stress the absolute necessity of obeying Acts 2:38, but you don't.

[mizpeh]

I have always felt there very well could be a wave of understanding regarding baptism in Jesus name among trinitarians while their view of the godhead might not change.

When I was UPC because we viewed it all as a package (3 step salvation) I never heard anyone even consider this possibility.

It would at least be a first step from a three stepper persepctive and would be a giant step from mine!

I don't see how it's possible for a Trinitarian to have a "wave of understanding regarding baptism in Jesus name" and not change their view on the Godhead.

[mizpeh]

Are Dan and PP taking a time out?

[CC1]

I don't see how it's possible for a Trinitarian to have a "wave of understanding regarding baptism in Jesus name" and not change their view on the Godhead.

Why not? To believe that Jesus is the name of God is not something you have to be a Oneness to believe. Trinitarians are monotheistic and believe in one God also.

The scriptures where the formula is noted in Acts say Jesus name or the "name of the Lord" so that is also clear.

That is the reason there is a substantial number of AOG churches that baptize "In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, which is Jesus Christ".

When I was in a UPC Bible College thiry years ago they told us that in a survey about 1/3 of AOG churches baptized this way. I don't know if that still holds true.

[CC1]

Come on, Dan, you don't represent the PCI view at all. If you did, you would stress the absolute necessity of obeying Acts 2:38, but you don't.

You are confusing the PCI with the PAJC view.

[mizpeh]

You are confusing the PCI with the PAJC view.

No, I'm not. It's absolutely necessary to obey the commands of the Lord to be saved. The early disciples of Christ taught what the Lord taught them.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Luke 4:46



You should go back and read this thread when you have the time: The Difference Between the PCI of the Merger and the Current Counterfeits . It was an eye opener for me.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=554

[StMark]

No, I'm not. It's absolutely necessary to obey the commands of the Lord to be saved.

And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say? Luke 4:46

The early disciples of Christ taught what the Lord taught them.

You should go back and read this thread when you have the time. It was an eye opener for me.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=554


you are wrong mizpeh,

PCI teaches " only believe" - accept christ as personal savior for salvation.
Baptism is only a sacrament of the church as CC put it

[mizpeh]

you are wrong mizpeh,

PCI teaches " only believe" - accept christ as personal savior for salvation.
Baptism is only a sacrament of the church as CC put it

PCI does not teach it is optional to be baptized in Jesus name nor is it optional to not seek for the baptism of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues. From what I've read they taught you are saved at faith but repentance and the baptisms are what someone who believes will do/obey if they are to continue on to be saved. We are truly saved when we reach our destination by enduring to the end through faith.

[mizpeh]

Mark,

Ask Dan if the things I'm saying are true or not. ;)

[Cindy]

THe only way to determine the true answer to your question is to poll each member independently and find out where they stand. THen, the majority rules.

HOw else can you quantify a question like this?

Hang on I have to go look up quantify. Be right back.

[Hoovie]

:bliss

Dannyboy, do we really want to do this tonight?

Are you really attempting to say that the majority of AFF is pro-Oneness Pentecostalism? Talk about hyperbole!:blah

Look, I'm not complaining. It is what it is.

I'm just sayin'.

I'm not DA... but ABSOLUTELY YES!

[Blubayou]

I consider myself a Pentecostal- a moderate to liberal one, but a Pentecostal non -the -less. This forum is a gathering place for people with apostolic backgrounds, or practicing apostolics of various flavors.

[Sandra]

I am Pentecostal... not ex-pentecostal!!!

[Cindy]

It is probably just indigestion. Take a Pecid AC or two rolaids and call the Dr. in the morning if it's not better!:bliss:happydance:gaga:toofunny

Nope. Just sad and pitiful.

[Cindy]

Hey sis I'm here and you know where I stand.:bliss :kittyhug

Yep, and I am so thankful.

[Cindy]

I am a One God-Apostolic-Pentecostal-Baptized in Jesus Name can't remember the old song but that is me.

Praise the Lord Elder Epley, you are an encourager also.

[mizpeh]

Why not? To believe that Jesus is the name of God is not something you have to be a Oneness to believe. Trinitarians are monotheistic and believe in one God also.

The scriptures where the formula is noted in Acts say Jesus name or the "name of the Lord" so that is also clear.

That is the reason there is a substantial number of AOG churches that baptize "In the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, which is Jesus Christ".
When I was in a UPC Bible College thiry years ago they told us that in a survey about 1/3 of AOG churches baptized this way. I don't know if that still holds true.

I didn't know that! :happydance

I don't see how they can say the name of the Father is Jesus Christ and the name of the Son is Jesus Christ, and the name of the Holy Ghost is Jesus Christ and still follow the tenets of Trinitarianism.

And, yes, I believe that formula for baptism is valid.

[CC1]

I am Pentecostal... not ex-pentecostal!!!

You know good and well you are a TBN green hair, white & gold furniture Cruisematic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bliss:b liss:happydance:toofunny

[Cindy]

You know good and well you are a TBN green hair, white & gold furniture Cruisematic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:bliss:b liss:happydance:toofunny

Green hair? I thought it was pink hair. :toofunny

[mizpeh]

You claim it is so-called "three stepper Water & Spirit" adherants who are divisive but it is folks like you, Timlan, MOW and others who lead the charge to divide. Timlan? How is Timlan divisive? He ever only talks history! and specifically a history found between a certain time span and generally located in two states! I would like to see Timlan talk doctrine but I haven't, ever! (I may have missed it since I didn't learn of NFCF until its last 4 months)

FYI, Dan didn't post on NFCF.

[Nahum]

Are you saying my "conspiracy theory" is wrong?

That you are here to strengthen traditional OP doctrinal stands of Oneness doctrine, Jesus Name Baptism and Holy Ghost infilling? If so I'm shocked! None of your posts seem to indicate that sort of doctrinal proclivity.

If by traditional you mean your 3 step view ... than sorry I don't promote it ... as you don't strengthen the one step view. Actually you do quite the opposite w/ your very predictable .. yet sporadic tirades.

Difference between you and me, my friend is that .... You'd rather build walls w/ a fragment of the Body of Christ.

Dan, you are the most divisive poster in Faithchild/AFF history.

You claim it is so-called "three stepper Water & Spirit" adherants who are divisive but it is folks like you, Timlan, MOW and others who lead the charge to divide.

Your group does not want unification and toleration. You want to dominate. You want to change what it means to be Oneness Pentecostal. Surely you do not deny this? THIS IS YOUR AGENDA.

AFF is the best platform in the world for your group and you well know it. As a matter of fact, AFF is the only valid platform for your ideals.

Further, you are nothing close to PCI. You Sir, are an imposter.

You pose, preen and distract with patently Pentecostal catch-phrases while you peddle a new-fangled toleration of capitulation to Ecumenicalism to anyone foolish enough to give an ear.

Daniel, why is it you never, ever focus on anything but how repugnant three-step doctrine is? You never focus on the similarities between the old PCi and the PAJCers. You always point out differences.

Now tell me bubba, who is divisive?

[Nahum]

Timlan? How is Timlan divisive? He ever only talks history! and specifically a history found between a certain time span and generally located in two states! I would like to see Timlan talk doctrine but I haven't, ever! (I may have missed it since I didn't learn of NFCF until its last 4 months)

FYI, Dan didn't post on NFCF.

They hold the same view.

Water and Spirit doctrine is worse than Catholicism.

And I realize AFF is Daniel's only house.

[mizpeh]

They hold the same view.

Water and Spirit doctrine is worse than Catholicism.

And I realize AFF is Daniel's only house.

What about Synadelfos?

[Nahum]

What about Synadelfos?

Is anybody still over there?

I never see anyone.

[CC1]

Green hair? I thought it was pink hair. :toofunny

I stand corrected!! Sandra and a handful of others are the only reason I ever watch it so I had gotten my pastel colors mixed up. I average about two hours of TBN per year and that seems about right to me.

[chosenbyone]

Dan, you are the most divisive poster in Faithchild/AFF history.

Maybe, you should start a new thread polling members if they believe Dan is the most divisive poster.

[CC1]

Maybe, you should start a new thread polling members if they believe Dan is the most divisive poster.

I would be voting a big yes. I believe he almost single handedly destroyed the balance AFF had between ultra cons, cons, mods, and libs.

I reallly wish this subject had not come up. However my views are nothing new. I have told Dan this to his face.

If he had been half as nice and tactful on the forum as he is in real life I think all would have been a lot better.

*NOTE* - This is my pesonal opinion. I am speaking as a poster not as admin.

[Cindy]

I stand corrected!! Sandra and a handful of others are the only reason I ever watch it so I had gotten my pastel colors mixed up. I average about two hours of TBN per year and that seems about right to me.

I was flipping through channels one night and saw a lady on the platform with pink hair, it may have been a wig.

[Cindy]

Maybe, you should start a new thread polling members if they believe Dan is the most divisive poster.

:reaction :crazywalls :crazywalls :drama

[mizpeh]

I would be voting a big yes. I believe he almost single handedly destroyed the balance AFF had between ultra cons, cons, mods, and libs.

I reallly wish this subject had not come up. However my views are nothing new. I have told Dan this to his face.

If he had been half as nice and tactful on the forum as he is in real life I think all would have been a lot better.

*NOTE* - This is my pesonal opinion. I am speaking as a poster not as admin.

Then Pelathais must have been the straw that broke the back of the ex-Conservative owners.

[chosenbyone]

I would be voting a big yes. I believe he almost single handedly destroyed the balance AFF had between ultra cons, cons, mods, and libs.

I reallly wish this subject had not come up. However my views are nothing new. I have told Dan this to his face.

If he had been half as nice and tactful on the forum as he is in real life I think all would have been a lot better.

*NOTE* - This is my pesonal opinion. I am speaking as a poster not as admin.

Sadly, when I met him a couple of months ago I asked (in so many words) that he stop being so difficult. Many of us here have grown weary of the constant state of attack that seemed to be DA's calling card.

To his credit though, he was a really a nice guy in person.

[chosenbyone]

:reaction :crazywalls :crazywalls :drama

I know, huh? :woot

[CC1]

FCF, NFCF and AFF had acheived a rare and treasured dynamic where persons from every spectrum of Pentecost (except Branhamites!) could come and respectfully cross swords.

Of course at times lines were crossed. We all have been quilty of that (well all but probably Scott Hutchison. He apologizes for killing flies). However we always stepped back from the abyss, took a deep breath, and resumed respectful dialogue.

The very nature of conservative old time Oneness Pentecostalism does not lend itself to much introspection and certainy not public debate of it's doctrines, traditions, issues ,etc.

Many of what liberals and some moderates consider traditions are dearly held "biblical views" to conservatives. To have those views trashed, ridiculed, made fun of, and disrespeccted post after post, day after day had a debilitating effect.

AFF became a place where conservatives no longer felt respected, welcome, and on an even playing field. In short order most of them, the preachers anyway, took their marbles and started playing in their own field. I don't really blame them as much as I wanted them to stay.

Thankfully over time some never left and some are venturing back. I hope we don't make the same mistake again.

I believe in strong discussion and have crossed swords with every con and ultra con that ever posted on AFF but I have tried to do it in a way that a bond of resepct and friendship can be developed despite our differences. I don' always succeed but I try.

[timlan2057]

Timlan? How is Timlan divisive? He ever only talks history! and specifically a history found between a certain time span and generally located in two states! I would like to see Timlan talk doctrine but I haven't, ever! (I may have missed it since I didn't learn of NFCF until its last 4 months)

FYI, Dan didn't post on NFCF.

Well, Ed is entitled to his views.

I sincerely don't think I was ever "divisive." Heck, I don't post that much anymore.

I am indeed ex-pentecostal and from a standpoint of "reaching and impacting the world" I believe "old time pentecost" with its extra-biblical traditions, lack of critical thinking and an uneducated ministry - has been a miserable failure and is losing relevance with each passing day, year and decade.

I do believe Dan is wrong when he pegs Ed as an "ultracon".

Within the paradigm of "ole time pentecost", PP is anything but that.

I like Ed.

I do find it a little amusing that he no doubt looks in the mirror and thinks of himself as liberal and openminded and issues-and-substance oriented.

Yet he does little lately but carp and gripe when someone doesn't express his exact views.

Like Doug White, Renfro and a few of the other Johnny-come-latelys who started this board, Ed believes that a "pentecostal' board should be such that liberals like Dan or CC1 should just chime in with a "Yes Massuh ... I gwine be good!" every now and then.

His definition of an "apostolic" board is where "ole time pentecost" wins when any other views, are hamstrung, censored and contrived.

I find that view rather contradictory in an otherwise pretty intelligent guy.

Now When I say that White, Renfro and PP are and were Johnny-come-latelys is that they were not around at the beginning when Jim Yohe founded Faithchild.

Jim, for the most part, believed "truth" could stand up to error and win because it was truth.

These guys try to prop religious tradition up as truth and think a message board should be censored and contrived to that end.

But ... as Lenin said ... facts are stubborn things.

These guys are so far removed from Jim Yohe's original vision of a discussion board it ain't even funny.

And no ... I'm not making Jim Yohe the pope or anything.

But anyway ... Ed is certainly welcome to express his frustration.

I just don't believe in "contrived" message boards.

Let the best argument win.

Ed is right on one thing though.

I do feel a discussion board such as this is an arena and while we "fight" each other, I am posting not so much to other posters, but to the lurkers.

Coonskinner and a couple of his cronies pooh-poohed the idea of message boards changing "ole time pentecost."

They were just whistling Dixie in the graveyard.

The internet is changing a lot of things.

But unlike these pentecostal preachers, I don't believe it is because people are weak minded and easily swayed.

I have more faith in human nature than that.

Change is happening because ... well again ... facts are stubborn things.

[timlan2057]

... and isn't it ironic?

"Ole time pentecost" either sincerely or with motives in mind ... hollered and screamed over decades about the dangers of television.

Yet, the internet was accepted, mainly because it was the preachers' favorite toy.

AND ... the internet ... with open discussion and message boards ... is doing more than television could ever do to relegate "ole time pentecost" to just a footnote in religious history books.

[Steve Epley]

FCF, NFCF and AFF had acheived a rare and treasured dynamic where persons from every spectrum of Pentecost (except Branhamites!) could come and respectfully cross swords.

Of course at times lines were crossed. We all have been quilty of that (well all but probably Scott Hutchison. He apologizes for killing flies). However we always stepped back from the abyss, took a deep breath, and resumed respectful dialogue.

The very nature of conservative old time Oneness Pentecostalism does not lend itself to much introspection and certainy not public debate of it's doctrines, traditions, issues ,etc.

Many of what liberals and some moderates consider traditions are dearly held "biblical views" to conservatives. To have those views trashed, ridiculed, made fun of, and disrespeccted post after post, day after day had a debilitating effect.

AFF became a place where conservatives no longer felt respected, welcome, and on an even playing field. In short order most of them, the preachers anyway, took their marbles and started playing in their own field. I don't really blame them as much as I wanted them to stay.

Thankfully over time some never left and some are venturing back. I hope we don't make the same mistake again.

I believe in strong discussion and have crossed swords with every con and ultra con that ever posted on AFF but I have tried to do it in a way that a bond of resepct and friendship can be developed despite our differences. I don' always succeed but I try.

CC1 I have argued and debated every subject and issue present in Pentecost on these forums. The tone for season from some were so out of bounds that I felt I was at an anti-Pentecostal site so I came less and less. I think overall it has improved. I personally enjoyed the chemistry of FCF boy the sparks would fly. It had such a wide spectrum of posters it was fun. I really do not thinkit has ever been recaptured but it may have been because it was so new to many of us.

[CC1]

CC1 I have argued and debated every subject and issue present in Pentecost on these forums. The tone for season from some were so out of bounds that I felt I was at an anti-Pentecostal site so I came less and less. I think overall it has improved. I personally enjoyed the chemistry of FCF boy the sparks would fly. It had such a wide spectrum of posters it was fun. I really do not thinkit has ever been recaptured but it may have been because it was so new to many of us.

I would love to have a copy of my first few posts in response to yours those many years ago when FCF was just getting going!

I think you raised my blood pressure a good twenty points until I got to know you better and read more posts.:tissue

[rrford]

Interesting thread. Especially the last 2 pages.

[Steve Epley]

I would love to have a copy of my first few posts in response to yours those many years ago when FCF was just getting going!

I think you raised my blood pressure a good twenty points until I got to know you better and read more posts.:tissue

I came in both guns blazing. Boyd & Groce would call me laughing their heads off. The shock value did work.

[mizpeh]

... and isn't it ironic?


AND ... the internet ... with open discussion and message boards ... is doing more than television could ever do to relegate "ole time pentecost" to just a footnote in religious history books.

Timlan, How do you know that the internet is truly having an impact on the minds of those who come and lurk? Have you objective proof? Have you met or talked to "ole time pentecostals" who have changed their point of view regarding dress standards and salvation doctrine from reading something here of on the internet? Or is this something you are saying because of what you read on this little microcism called AFF?

[Steve Epley]

I am afraid Timlan is correct on weak and niave folks come on the internet and because they might have some questions they are indeed influenced by stuff they read on the internet.

[Nahum]

Dan, you are the most divisive poster in Faithchild/AFF history.

You claim it is so-called "three stepper Water & Spirit" adherants who are divisive but it is folks like you, Timlan, MOW and others who lead the charge to divide.

Your group does not want unification and toleration. You want to dominate. You want to change what it means to be Oneness Pentecostal. Surely you do not deny this? THIS IS YOUR AGENDA.

AFF is the best platform in the world for your group and you well know it. As a matter of fact, AFF is the only valid platform for your ideals.

Further, you are nothing close to PCI. You Sir, are an imposter.

You pose, preen and distract with patently Pentecostal catch-phrases while you peddle a new-fangled toleration of capitulation to Ecumenicalism to anyone foolish enough to give an ear.

Daniel, why is it you never, ever focus on anything but how repugnant three-step doctrine is? You never focus on the similarities between the old PCi and the PAJCers. You always point out differences.

Now tell me bubba, who is divisive?

Well, Ed is entitled to his views.

I sincerely don't think I was ever "divisive." Heck, I don't post that much anymore.

I am indeed ex-pentecostal and from a standpoint of "reaching and impacting the world" I believe "old time pentecost" with its extra-biblical traditions, lack of critical thinking and an uneducated ministry - has been a miserable failure and is losing relevance with each passing day, year and decade.

I do believe Dan is wrong when he pegs Ed as an "ultracon".

Within the paradigm of "ole time pentecost", PP is anything but that.

I like Ed.

I do find it a little amusing that he no doubt looks in the mirror and thinks of himself as liberal and openminded and issues-and-substance oriented.

Yet he does little lately but carp and gripe when someone doesn't express his exact views.

Like Doug White, Renfro and a few of the other Johnny-come-latelys who started this board, Ed believes that a "pentecostal' board should be such that liberals like Dan or CC1 should just chime in with a "Yes Massuh ... I gwine be good!" every now and then.

His definition of an "apostolic" board is where "ole time pentecost" wins when any other views, are hamstrung, censored and contrived.

I find that view rather contradictory in an otherwise pretty intelligent guy.

Now When I say that White, Renfro and PP are and were Johnny-come-latelys is that they were not around at the beginning when Jim Yohe founded Faithchild.

Jim, for the most part, believed "truth" could stand up to error and win because it was truth.

These guys try to prop religious tradition up as truth and think a message board should be censored and contrived to that end.

But ... as Lenin said ... facts are stubborn things.

These guys are so far removed from Jim Yohe's original vision of a discussion board it ain't even funny.

And no ... I'm not making Jim Yohe the pope or anything.

But anyway ... Ed is certainly welcome to express his frustration.

I just don't believe in "contrived" message boards.

Let the best argument win.

Ed is right on one thing though.

I do feel a discussion board such as this is an arena and while we "fight" each other, I am posting not so much to other posters, but to the lurkers.

Coonskinner and a couple of his cronies pooh-poohed the idea of message boards changing "ole time pentecost."

They were just whistling Dixie in the graveyard.

The internet is changing a lot of things.

But unlike these pentecostal preachers, I don't believe it is because people are weak minded and easily swayed.

I have more faith in human nature than that.

Change is happening because ... well again ... facts are stubborn things.

I will readily admit that I have not been "substance and issues oriented" over the past few months. I found my attempts at such an exercise in futility because it would always devolve into a stupid one-step vs three-step argument by the agenda hijackers.

You are right, I hate the term "open-minded" and all it implies.

But the greatest mistake you, MOW, Daniel and other Ex's make is to think that I am party to some sort of plantation mentality. Friend, I have suffered for my disagreements with the status quo in a real and lasting way. MY disagreements with "the man" costs me something.

And...for the record, I have disagreed much more vociferously with Renfro and White than I ever have with Daniel Alicea.

I will give Daniel this much. We may rip each other to shreds on this forum. We may disagree in a nuclear way. But he has never once tried to hurt me in real life.

I wish I could say that about some of the others you mentioned.

[Nahum]

Timlan, How do you know that the internet is truly having an impact on the minds of those who come and lurk? Have you objective proof? Have you met or talked to "ole time pentecostals" who have changed their point of view regarding dress standards and salvation doctrine from reading something here of on the internet? Or is this something you are saying because of what you read on this little microcism called AFF?

I am not Timlan, but let me say this.

All information is powerful.

AFF is the greatest voice available to folks like Daniel, MOW and TIm.

[timlan2057]

Timlan, How do you know that the internet is truly having an impact on the minds of those who come and lurk? Have you objective proof? Have you met or talked to "ole time pentecostals" who have changed their point of view regarding dress standards and salvation doctrine from reading something here of on the internet? Or is this something you are saying because of what you read on this little microcism called AFF?

Ah, the old "if you can't name specific people etc. then it ain't true" defense.

Well ... actually Mizpeh, yes I have talked with quite a few. But I wasn't basing what I said on that.

And yes ... I know the internet is a bit bigger than AFF though you'd be surprised who lurks here.

Tell you what ... let's give it a few years and let's see who's right ... okay?

[timlan2057]

But the greatest mistake you, MOW, Daniel and other Ex's make is to think that I am party to some sort of plantation mentality. Friend, I have suffered for my disagreements with the status quo in a real and lasting way. MY disagreements with "the man" costs me something.

And...for the record, I have disagreed much more vociferously with Renfro and White than I ever have with Daniel Alicea.

I will give Daniel this much. We may rip each other to shreds on this forum. We may disagree in a nuclear way. But he has never once tried to hurt me in real life.

I wish I could say that about some of the others you mentioned.

Well, the latter is none of my business, though of course you prove my point.

I don't say that in a triumphant way ... just that there we go that you are an example as a victim of the mentality that if we can't meet their arguments with substance we'll strike back and try to "hurt" them.

But ... just because you can fit into a "plantation" analogy as a slave ...

... DOESN'T mean that in another sense and with other posters you can't ALSO fit into the analogy as the overseer. ; )

[StMark]

I will readily admit that I have not been "substance and issues oriented" over the past few months. I found my attempts at such an exercise in futility because it would always devolve into a stupid one-step vs three-step argument by the agenda hijackers.

You are right, I hate the term "open-minded" and all it implies.

But the greatest mistake you, MOW, Daniel and other Ex's make is to [B]think that I am party to some sort of plantation mentality. Friend, I have suffered for my disagreements with the status quo in a real and lasting way. MY disagreements with "the man" costs me something.

[B]And...for the record, I have disagreed much more vociferously with Renfro and White than I ever have with Daniel Alicea.

I will give Daniel this much. We may rip each other to shreds on this forum. We may disagree in a nuclear way. But he has never once tried to hurt me in real life.

I wish I could say that about some of the others you mentioned.

I understand

[Steve Epley]

I am not Timlan, but let me say this.

All information is powerful.

AFF is the greatest voice available to folks like Daniel, MOW and TIm.

I honestly think it affects only those who are somewhat looking for an alternate view and way of living. Thus their 'arguments' though they are very old to us who have battled these errors for years for the naive they think revelation and liberty has come. I have fought these same arguments ever since I have been in the ministry and continue to fight them today.

[Nahum]

Well, the latter is none of my business, though of course you prove my point.

I don't say that in a triumphant way ... just that there we go that you are an example as a victim of the mentality that if we can't meet their arguments with substance we'll strike back and try to "hurt" them.

But ... just because you can fit into a "plantation" analogy as a slave ...

... DOESN'T mean that in another sense and with other posters you can't ALSO fit into the analogy as the overseer. ; )

Tim, I like you, but your last statement is pretty whacked.

I am not an admin. I am not an owner.

I do care about this stupid forum.

I do think some things allowed here are way off base.

Are you saying I should not express that opinion?

I have never hurt one person on this forum. Thought about calling a DS once, but didn't cause I didn't want to be that kind of person.

Comparing me to a slave owner is highly offensive.

[mizpeh]

Ah, the old "if you can't name specific people etc. then it ain't true" defense.

Well ... actually Mizpeh, yes I have talked with quite a few. But I wasn't basing what I said on that.

And yes ... I know the internet is a bit bigger than AFF though you'd be surprised who lurks here.

Tell you what ... let's give it a few years and let's see who's right ... okay?

I didn't mean to imply that you were wrong in your assessment of the power of the internet to sway minds. I would like to see proof, that's all. I thought maybe you had some hard facts to substantiate your claims.

It's not about I'm right and you're wrong. I was asking a question, I was not saying "Timlan is wrong"! It's funny you think I was trying to use some type of defense! I'm not that smart, just curious. LOL

[SDG]

I would be voting a big yes. I believe he almost single handedly destroyed the balance AFF had between ultra cons, cons, mods, and libs.

I reallly wish this subject had not come up. However my views are nothing new. I have told Dan this to his face.

If he had been half as nice and tactful on the forum as he is in real life I think all would have been a lot better.

*NOTE* - This is my pesonal opinion. I am speaking as a poster not as admin.

CC1 you have expressed this to me ... one-on-one. I respect your opinion and you greatly.

All I can do, however, is laugh.

[mizpeh]

Tim, I like you, but your last statement is pretty whacked.

I am not an admin. I am not an owner.

I do care about this stupid forum.

I do think some things allowed here are way off base.

Are you saying I should not express that opinion?

I have never hurt one person on this forum. Thought about calling a DS once, but didn't cause I didn't want to be that kind of person.

Comparing me to a slave owner is highly offensive.

How's your hand, PP?

[SDG]

Dan, you are the most divisive poster in Faithchild/AFF history.

You claim it is so-called "three stepper Water & Spirit" adherants who are divisive but it is folks like you, Timlan, MOW and others who lead the charge to divide.

Your group does not want unification and toleration. You want to dominate. You want to change what it means to be Oneness Pentecostal. Surely you do not deny this? THIS IS YOUR AGENDA.

AFF is the best platform in the world for your group and you well know it. As a matter of fact, AFF is the only valid platform for your ideals.

Further, you are nothing close to PCI. You Sir, are an imposter.

You pose, preen and distract with patently Pentecostal catch-phrases while you peddle a new-fangled toleration of capitulation to Ecumenicalism to anyone foolish enough to give an ear.

Daniel, why is it you never, ever focus on anything but how repugnant three-step doctrine is? You never focus on the similarities between the old PCi and the PAJCers. You always point out differences.

Now tell me bubba, who is divisive?

Absolutely vintage.

[Nahum]

I understand

Maybe someday we can publish a tell-all book?:toofunny

[mizpeh]

Maybe someday we can publish a tell-all book?:toofunnyGod has a tell-all day coming!

[Nahum]

How's your hand, PP?

Scarred, but useful.

Thanks for the letter. You da man!

Well, you know what I mean.:gaga

[SDG]

Tim, I like you, but your last statement is pretty whacked.

I am not an admin. I am not an owner.

I do care about this stupid forum.

I do think some things allowed here are way off base.

Are you saying I should not express that opinion?

I have never hurt one person on this forum. Thought about calling a DS once, but didn't cause I didn't want to be that kind of person.

Comparing me to a slave owner is highly offensive.

You're offended ... and you call the forum, stupid?

Hello. How's life, PP?

We need to get you some fresh air.

How 'bout dem Cards?

[bkstokes]

The more I hang around the forum the more I realize that many dye in wool 3 steppers believe in a gospel of works.

[SDG]

The more I hang around the forum the more I
realize that many dye in wool 3 steppers believe in a gospel of works.

DUH!!!

[timlan2057]

Tim, I like you, but your last statement is pretty whacked.

I am not an admin. I am not an owner.

I do care about this stupid forum.

I do think some things allowed here are way off base.

Are you saying I should not express that opinion?

I have never hurt one person on this forum. Thought about calling a DS once, but didn't cause I didn't want to be that kind of person.

Comparing me to a slave owner is highly offensive.

Well, that's the trouble with analogies.

You can't always make it fit in a LITERAL sense.

Man, I really don't even feel like dealing with this but here goes: Ed, I think you know that you don't have to be the literal OWNER of the forum to be on the "overseer" end of the analogy.

I meant "overseer" in the sense that you seem to prefer your views of traditional pentecost upheld by contrivance and censorship on a forum.

I by no means implied that you'd call someone's boss or make trouble for someone in real life.

Sigh.

I feel foolish posting that. You're not dumb, Ed.

You know what I meant.

And I sincerely feel anyone reading my post knew that also.

[Cindy]

I stand corrected!! Sandra and a handful of others are the only reason I ever watch it so I had gotten my pastel colors mixed up. I average about two hours of TBN per year and that seems about right to me.

I would watch it to see Sandra also. She inspires me. I also like the Crabb Family.

[SDG]

Dude, please shut up.:blah

(infraction incoming.)

Try Jesus.

[SDG]

Interesting thread. Especially the last 2 pages.

RR, what's so interesting?

[Nahum]

Well, that's the trouble with analogies.

You can't always make it fit in a LITERAL sense.

Man, I really don't even feel like dealing with this but here goes: Ed, I think you know that you don't have to be the literal OWNER of the forum to be on the "overseer" end of the analogy.

I meant "overseer" in the sense that you seem to prefer your views of traditional pentecost upheld by contrivance and censorship on a forum.

I by no means implied that you'd call someone's boss or make trouble for someone in real life.

Sigh.

I feel foolish posting that. You're not dumb, Ed.

You know what I meant.

And I sincerely feel anyone reading my post knew that also.

Well, that's a consolation.

I may be an ole-timey plantation overseer who wants to squelch the truth, but I'M NOT DUMB! Hallelujah!:bliss


Just kidding!:boxing

[Nahum]

Try Jesus.

You make Him sound like the latest schnapps flavor.

[CC1]

I would watch it to see Sandra also. She inspires me. I also like the Crabb Family.

Ah but the Crabb Family is no more! They gave their last concert a few months ago at Lee University in Cleveland, Tennessee.

The funny thing is I have never heard of them and didn't have a clue who they were then somehow heard them sing and absolutely loved it only to find out they were disbanding.

I think they are going different directions musically and two or three new groups will be the result of them splitting up.

[CC1]

PP,

PM incoming.

[Steve Epley]

What is up with all this personal stuff that should be off-limits. Subject material is explosive enough without this. I am a nobody but you guys are all bigger than this really it is uncalled for. It reminds be of a pushing session in a school yard someone is going to start swinging.

[SDG]

Timlan, How do you know that the internet is truly having an impact on the minds of those who come and lurk? Have you objective proof? Have you met or talked to "ole time pentecostals" who have changed their point of view regarding dress standards and salvation doctrine from reading something here of on the internet? Or is this something you are saying because of what you read on this little microcism called AFF?

This medium undoubted is having a huge effect, Mizpeh.

We press on.

[SDG]

What is up with all this personal stuff that should be off-limits. Subject material is explosive enough without this. I am a nobody but you guys are all bigger than this really it is uncalled for. It reminds be of a pushing session in a school yard someone is going to start swinging.

I agree. It's never personal.

[Cindy]

Ah but the Crabb Family is no more! They gave their last concert a few months ago at Lee University in Cleveland, Tennessee.

The funny thing is I have never heard of them and didn't have a clue who they were then somehow heard them sing and absolutely loved it only to find out they were disbanding.

I think they are going different directions musically and two or three new groups will be the result of them splitting up.

Oh, I will look forward to that. I also hear Selah is breaking up, they are an awesome group too.

[Nahum]

I agree. It's never personal.

Me too. I'm never personable.

[Nahum]

PP,

PM incoming.

Cee Cee One,

Thank you for the note.

It's always good to hear from you.

Write again real soon.:bliss

[SDG]

Me too. I'm never personable.

We have maintained a friendship throughout this year and a half. And hope it will continue.

As you have said if we lived closer ... we'd be drinking buddies.

Diet Cokes and Coke Zeros that is.

[bkstokes]

Pp

I can tell that you are a real people person.

[CC1]

Oh, I will look forward to that. I also hear Selah is breaking up, they are an awesome group too.

Avalaon broke up but two members of it are in my church, one a board member, so we get to hear them once or twice a year.

Not to mention the Female Vocalist of the year for three years in a row at the Dove awards - Natalie Grant!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[CC1]

Pp

I can tell that you are a real people person.

ROFLMBO!!!!!

My theory is that he must have found out today that insurance is not covering the storm damage.:gaga

[SDG]

ROFLMBO!!!!!

My theory is that he must have found out today that insurance is not covering the storm damage.:gaga

Or maybe because Pujols is on the 60 day disabled list?

[Nahum]

We have maintained a friendship throughout this year and a half. And hope it will continue.

As you have said if we lived closer ... we'd be drinking buddies.

Diet Cokes and Coke Zeros that is.

Yep.

I'd hogtie you and beat you into conversion.:bliss

Then we'd drink anything but diet soda for all of eternity while we watched the Cards pummel the Cubs and Astros.

[SDG]

Yep.

I'd hogtie you and beat you into conversion.:bliss

Then we'd drink anything but diet soda for all of eternity while we watched the Cards pummel the Cubs and Astros.

Both are looking real good right now.

Stros and Cards that is ...

[Nahum]

Pp

I can tell that you are a real people person.

You should feel very lucky. I normally save those kind of posts for the most stupid posters on the board.

I'm having an off night.

Please accept my most personal of pastoral apologies.

If you can't it would be perfectly acceptable for you to start a thread about how abusive OP preachers are.:gaga

[SDG]

Timlan:

I do feel a discussion board such as this is an arena and while we "fight" each other, I am posting not so much to other posters, but to the lurkers.

Coonskinner and a couple of his cronies pooh-poohed the idea of message boards changing "ole time pentecost."

They were just whistling Dixie in the graveyard.

The internet is changing a lot of things.

But unlike these pentecostal preachers, I don't believe it is because people are weak minded and easily swayed.

I have more faith in human nature than that.

Change is happening because ... well again ... facts are stubborn things.

Quote of the week. That's the agenda.

[bkstokes]

You should feel very lucky. I normally save those kind of posts for the most stupid posters on the board.

I'm having an off night.

Please accept my most personal of pastoral apologies.

If you can't it would be perfectly acceptable for you to start a thread about how abusive OP preachers are.:gaga

I was not offended. I realized a long time ago that People who make such remarks normally make them because they cannot address the real issue.

GO CUBS

[Ron]

Dan, you are the most divisive poster in Faithchild/AFF history.

You claim it is so-called "three stepper Water & Spirit" adherants who are divisive but it is folks like you, Timlan, MOW and others who lead the charge to divide.

Your group does not want unification and toleration. You want to dominate. You want to change what it means to be Oneness Pentecostal. Surely you do not deny this? THIS IS YOUR AGENDA.

AFF is the best platform in the world for your group and you well know it. As a matter of fact, AFF is the only valid platform for your ideals.

Further, you are nothing close to PCI. You Sir, are an imposter.

You pose, preen and distract with patently Pentecostal catch-phrases while you peddle a new-fangled toleration of capitulation to Ecumenicalism to anyone foolish enough to give an ear.

Daniel, why is it you never, ever focus on anything but how repugnant three-step doctrine is? You never focus on the similarities between the old PCi and the PAJCers. You always point out differences.

Now tell me bubba, who is divisive?

Be careful PP you are starting to hit some Bullseyes!

[SDG]

Be careful PP you are starting to hit some Bullseyes!

Pass the Haterade.

http://www.twistedmasterpiece.com/images/product_images/haterade.gif

[Nahum]

I was not offended. I realized a long time ago that People who make such remarks normally make them because they cannot address the real issue.

GO CUBS


Sweet Jesus help this poor man!

[SDG]

Sweet Jesus help this poor man!

That's a start... after this you should find a prayer closet.

[Nahum]

Pass the Haterade.

http://www.twistedmasterpiece.com/images/product_images/haterade.gif


Daniel, surely you will admit that it was a great post, reflective of your innermost thoughts and desires.

[mizpeh]

This medium undoubted is having a huge effect, Mizpeh.

We press on.

I don't like hype. Not in a church service and not here.

Why don't you give examples of the "huge effect"? Is this "hyperbole" and "hysteria"?

Seriously, maybe my Pentecostal bubble up here in the Northeast is small but I'm not seeing it! Now Texas may be another story.

[Nahum]

That's a start... after this you should find a prayer closet.
I ain't goin' in no closet.

[SDG]

Daniel, surely you will admit that it was a great post, reflective of your innermost thoughts and desires.

You alone , tonight, have helped the legend grow exponentially....

Thanks.

[Nahum]

I don't like hype. Not in a church service and not here.

Why don't you give examples of the "huge effect"? Is this "hyperbole" and "hysteria"?

Seriously, maybe my Pentecostal bubble up here in the Northeast is small but I'm not seeing it! Now Texas may be another story.
I

Well....they do say everything is bigger in Texas.

Even the hyperbole and hysteria.

[Nahum]

You alone , tonight, have helped the legend grow exponentially....

Thanks.


I know, I really enjoyed Tim's thoughts.

[timlan2057]

Or maybe because Pujols is on the 60 day disabled list?

Please do not post something like this in jest.

I nearly had a caniption.

Then I went to the St. Louis Post Dispatch website and when it wasn't screaming headlines on the sports pages, knew it wasn't true.

[SDG]

I don't like hype. Not in a church service and not here.

Why don't you give examples of the "huge effect"? Is this "hyperbole" and "hysteria"?

Seriously, maybe my Pentecostal bubble up here in the Northeast is small but I'm not seeing it! Now Texas may be another story.

I

Maybe you're not on the inside like PP and I are?

[SDG]

Please do not post something like this in jest.

I nearly had a caniption.

Then I went to the St. Louis Post Dispatch website and when it wasn't screaming headlines on the sports pages, knew it wasn't true.

I figured it would get a response.

[Nahum]

Please do not post something like this in jest.

I nearly had a caniption.

Then I went to the St. Louis Post Dispatch website and when it wasn't screaming headlines on the sports pages, knew it wasn't true.

Get him Tim!

Bad enough we got our sitdownski's kicked by the PithyPies.

[CC1]

I don't like hype. Not in a church service and not here.

Why don't you give examples of the "huge effect"? Is this "hyperbole" and "hysteria"?

Seriously, maybe my Pentecostal bubble up here in the Northeast is small but I'm not seeing it! Now Texas may be another story.

I

Oh! You are a Yankee. That explains a lot.

Before you go to bed tonight you need to pray that before you die you get the chance, opportunity, and privelege to live in Texas!!!

Alaska & Texas are the two greatest states in the Union. The biggest and the best.

Tennessee is up there pretty high also.

[Ron]

Pass the Haterade.

http://www.twistedmasterpiece.com/images/product_images/haterade.gif


Thanks Daniel, You hit a Bulleye too!

[mizpeh]

Maybe you're not on the inside like PP and I are?

Well then, why don't you share the insider info? :bubble

[mizpeh]

I figured it would get a response.

Typical! :reaction

[Nahum]

Well then, why don't you share the insider info? :bubble

I don't have any insider info.

I did hear Daniel was considering buying AFF, though.

[OneAccord]

I vote NO. AFF is not an Ex-Pentecostal Forum.

Reason? Simple-

AFF FORUM RULES

Let it be understood that Apostolic Friends Forum is an Apostolic Forum.
Apostolic is defined on AFF as:

Those that believe that every sinner must repent of their sins.
That Jesus name baptism is the only biblical mode of water baptism.
That the Holy Ghost is for today and is received by faith
with the initial evidence of speaking in tongues.
The saint will go on to strive to live a holy life, pleasing to God.

Plain and simple. AFF is an Apostolic Forum. Next poll, please....

[mizpeh]

Oh! You are a Yankee. That explains a lot.

Before you go to bed tonight you need to pray that before you die you get the chance, opportunity, and privelege to live in Texas!!!

Alaska & Texas are the two greatest states in the Union. The biggest and the best.

Tennessee is up there pretty high also.

At first I thought you meant I was a Yankee's fan! :boxing

[mizpeh]

I don't have any insider info.

I did hear Daniel was considering buying AFF, though.

Will the price of the stocks go up or down if he does?

[Nahum]

Will the price of the stocks go up or down if he does?

Up, because investors will view the move a sign of AFF's stability. This because AFF;s true doctrinal views will be open for all to see. A clearly muddied vision.

[CC1]

Up, because investors will view the move a sign of AFF's stability. This because AFF;s true doctrinal views will be open for all to see. A clearly muddied vision.

If DA becomes owner of AFF then I will have to take the plunge and get into the ministry officially so I can join the JP forum. I could be the token liberal.
They have Bill Price but he doesn't count because his doctrine will change in another couple of months - again. By fall he should be just to the right of Steve Epley and Elder Groce.

*Note* Edited because I accidently originally typed "Brett Prince" when I meant "Bill Price". Thanks to Bill for catching that.

[Ron]

Rico, wrong question posed.
Now some other questions could be asked but they would be hitting a few more Bulls Eyes!

1. Is AFF filled with people having Agendas?
2. Is AFF filled with ex UPC'ers who are bitter?

That would be interesting.:hypercoffee

[CC1]

Rico, wrong question posed.
Now some other questions could be asked but they would be hitting a few more Bulls Eyes!

1. Is AFF filled with people having Agendas?
2. Is AFF filled with ex UPC'ers who are bitter?

That would be interesting.:hypercoffee

I am bitter? Wow! I didn't realize that and now you have gone and ruined it. I will probably have to schedule counseling with Rhoni. Rats........

(Why is it UPC folks think everybody who left the Mothership and doesn't agree with old time Pentecost is "bitter"? Personally I think it is a defense mechanism. In other words "the best defense is a good offense")

[Ron]

I am bitter? Wow! I didn't realize that and now you have gone and ruined it. I will probably have to schedule counseling with Rhoni. Rats........

(Why is it UPC folks think everybody who left the Mothership and doesn't agree with old time Pentecost is "bitter"? Personally I think it is a defense mechanism. In other words "the best defense is a good offense")

Has anyone said you were bitter CC1?

It was a straight forward question.

One throws a rock in the midst of a pack and the one that gets hit.....:D


Thing is, to tell if one is truly "bitter" about "someone" or "something" is to see how much they harp about it.

[Nahum]

If DA becomes owner of AFF then I will have to take the plunge and get into the ministry officially so I can join the JP forum. I could be the token liberal.
They have Brett Prince but he doesn't count because his doctrine will change in another couple of months - again. By fall he should be just to the right of Steve Epley and Elder Groce.


OMG!!!!


KIllin' me here!:toofunny:toofunny:toofunny

[StMark]

If DA becomes owner of AFF then I will have to take the plunge and get into the ministry officially so I can join the JP forum. I could be the token liberal.
They have Brett Prince but he doesn't count because his doctrine will change in another couple of months - again. By fall he should be just to the right of Steve Epley and Elder Groce.


I'm going to make a point to see to it that Brett gets word about you just said about him.

[CC1]

I'm going' to make a point to see to it that Brett gets word about you just said about him.

He won't be surprised. I have kidded him about it before. I am going to suggest to him that he change his screen name with each big doctrinal shift. If he had done this in the past like software does with revisions his screen name would be something like "Brett Prince v.167

[chosenbyone]

I honestly think it affects only those who are somewhat looking for an alternate view and way of living. Thus their 'arguments' though they are very old to us who have battled these errors for years for the naive they think revelation and liberty has come. I have fought these same arguments ever since I have been in the ministry and continue to fight them today.

I appreciate you, Elder Epley.

[Brother Price]

He won't be surprised. I have kidded him about it before. I am going to suggest to him that he change his screen name with each big doctrinal shift. If he had done this in the past like software does with revisions his screen name would be something like "Brett Prince v.167

Brett Prince or Bill Price?

[Threads]

I am starting a poll. I have a simple question for you. It doesn't involve standards, steps in salvation, whether speaking in tongues is initial evidence of Holy Ghost infilling or anything similar. The question is this:


Is AFF an Ex-Pentecostal Forum?


This poll is private, so no one will know your vote but you.




Sidenote: You decide for yourself what "pentecostal" means.


Hey Rico! Good topic! I have wondered myself. Espechally by some of the topics out here. :crazywalls

[Encryptus]

I am starting a poll. I have a simple question for you. It doesn't involve standards, steps in salvation, whether speaking in tongues is initial evidence of Holy Ghost infilling or anything similar. The question is this:


Is AFF an Ex-Pentecostal Forum?


This poll is private, so no one will know your vote but you.




Sidenote: You decide for yourself what "pentecostal" means.

After reading this thread from start to finish I am more confused than ever about what "pentecostal" means.

[mizpeh]

After reading this thread from start to finish I am more confused than ever about what "pentecostal" means.

Some folks think it is something more than having the same experience the disciples did in Acts 2.

[RandyWayne]

I voted yes simply because I think there are more and more ex-UPC'ers. That is how I understood the question.

[CC1]

I voted yes simply because I think there are more and more ex-UPC'ers. That is how I understood the question.

You read the question wrong then. The poll is NOT whether it is an exUPC forum.

It is whether it is even a Pentecostal one! Absurd poll.

[StMark]

You read the question wrong then. The poll is NOT whether it is an exUPC forum.

It is whether it is even a Pentecostal one! Absurd poll.


I just talked to Brett... he is VERY HURT at you for what you said about him!

[CC1]

Brett Prince or Bill Price?

Bill, Oh good grief. Thanks for catching that. Of course I meant you and not Brett Prince.

I have always had a mental short circuit getting you two mixed up. It is like when I call one of my kids by the other ones name.

Brett would probably read that post and go "Huh?" because while I believe he did swing left at one time he did swing back right and into orthodox UPCism.

I will try and find that post and go back and put the correct name in it.

[StMark]

YOu're in BIG trouble!!!!!

[CC1]

I just talked to Brett... he is VERY HURT at you for what you said about him!

He shouldn't be as I meant Bill Price. I have always had a mental short circuit with those two and reverse them.

Bill caught it. Check out his post and my one right below yours I am quoting here. I went back and edited the correct name into the original post. Please let Brett know. As far as I know Brett only had a major change twice. From cons to lib then back to con.

[StMark]

He shouldn't be as I meant Bill Price. I have always had a mental short circuit with those two and reverse them.

Bill caught it. Check out his post and my one right below yours I am quoting here. I went back and edited the correct name into the original post. Please let Brett know. As far as I know Brett only had a major change twice. From cons to lib then back to con.



Hahahahahahahahahahahahhahaahahahaahahahahaooooooo !!!! :bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss :bliss

[AmazingGrace]

He shouldn't be as I meant Bill Price. I have always had a mental short circuit with those two and reverse them.

Bill caught it. Check out his post and my one right below yours I am quoting here. I went back and edited the correct name into the original post. Please let Brett know. As far as I know Brett only had a major change twice. From cons to lib then back to con.

Thats how you can tell them apart... one changes rarely and the other changes more often than he flushes the toilet... and is usually that full of false doctrine each time too :) LOL

[Cindy]

Thats how you can tell them apart... one changes rarely and the other changes more often than he flushes the toilet... and is usually that full of false doctrine each time too :) LOL

Man we need a toilet smilie.:gaga

[mizpeh]

I meant "overseer" in the sense that you seem to prefer your views of traditional pentecost upheld by contrivance and censorship on a forum.

Sadly, I have to agree with you here. "ole time Pentecostal" views should be able to stand on their own two legs if they are gospel truth. Unfortunately, those who left this forum gave up trying or lost the desire to defend their views and others prefer to have a form of censorship instead of contending for the apostolic faith (in their opinion) which was once delivered to the saints.

[Hoovie]

Bill, Oh good grief. Thanks for catching that. Of course I meant you and not Brett Prince.

I have always had a mental short circuit getting you two mixed up. It is like when I call one of my kids by the other ones name.

Brett would probably read that post and go "Huh?" because while I believe he did swing left at one time he did swing back right and into orthodox UPCism.

I will try and find that post and go back and put the correct name in it.

How funny is this!? :toofunny:toofunny


I was trying to figure out why Bret... But it is even funnier that your mistake was caught by Bill Price - seems you did not need to even use a name...


:happydance

[Brother Price]

Thats how you can tell them apart... one changes rarely and the other changes more often than he flushes the toilet... and is usually that full of false doctrine each time too :) LOL
Whatever!

One thing no one can say about me, that I never stop seeking and learning. :D

[Brother Price]

Man we need a toilet smilie.:gaga
Undoubtedly he never ate school cafeteria food, otherwise there would be no possible way for this to be true.

[Brother Price]

How funny is this!? :toofunny:toofunny


I was trying to figure out why Bret... But it is even funnier that your mistake was caught by Bill Price - seems you did not need to even use a name...


:happydance
Yo, I can take my bumps with the best of them.

[My Own Eyes]

I personally would be considered ex-pentecostal. So, the fact that no one ever agrees with anything I say (Except Timmy of course), means that as a whole the forum must not be. ;)

[Hoovie]

Yo, I can take my bumps with the best of them.

You're alright Brother, now that you are Born Again, again you are solid as a rock... well... sort of.


:bliss

[Hoovie]

I personally would be considered ex-pentecostal. So, the fact that no one ever agrees with anything I say (Except Timmy of course), means that as a whole the forum must not be. ;)

Exactly, with the exception of a couple of self-professed reprobates this forum is solidly Pentecostal.


:)

[mizpeh]

I personally would be considered ex-pentecostal. So, the fact that no one ever agrees with anything I say (Except Timmy of course), means that as a whole the forum must not be. ;)

It depends what your definition of Pentecostal is.

[Brother Price]

You're alright Brother, now that you are Born Again, again you are solid as a rock... well... sort of.


:bliss

:winaa

[timlan2057]

The very nature of conservative old time Oneness Pentecostalism does not lend itself to much introspection and certainy not public debate of it's doctrines, traditions, issues ,etc.

.

CC1, I miss the old dynamic of FCF too. I wasn't there QUITE in the beginning. I came along around February 2004.

But you yourself quoted above the very reason for that dynamic to be gone ... NOT Dan or anyone else being "divisive."

It's plain as day that this forum was founded as a perversion of Jim Yohe's goals ... from Day One AFF was to give the illusion that "ole time pentecost"'s extra-biblical positions and mindsets were winning intellectually and by repartee with the help of censorship and coercion.

I never say "I told you so" but I had that one pegged from the very beginning.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=7761#post7761

[SDG]

CC1, I miss the old dynamic of FCF too. I wasn't there QUITE in the beginning. I came along around February 2004.

But you yourself quoted above the very reason for that dynamic to be gone ... NOT Dan or anyone else being "divisive."

It's plain as day that this forum was founded as a perversion of Jim Yohe's goals ... from Day One AFF was to give the illusion that "ole time pentecost"'s extra-biblical positions and mindsets were winning intellectually and by repartee with the help of censorship and coercion.

I never say "I told you so" but I had that one pegged from the very beginning.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=7761#post7761

Totally agree. The foundation was built on quick sand. What CC1 fails to realize was that this was the agenda from the beginning. Although he waxed nostalgic for a forum of old .... he perhaps was duped into thinking that FCF or NFCF would be cloned here. With these men at the helm it was a genetic impossibility.

What transpired, I believe, was when controversy hit and they could not keep the appearance of "openness"... and, boy, did it from many sides .... they had to bail. The pressure from their peers .... or the perceived pressure ... was too much. Remaining "Apostolic", based on their definition, was vital.

It would have been nice to keep this "balanced" dynamic but it was a farce from the get-go as you so aptly predicted and the events that played out in January proved it. Once AFF proved to be a liability ... they could not stay.

Thank God for Renda Craig who kept this thing afloat.

[Michael Phelps]

If we go by the poll, there are 12 lib/mods to 1 ultracon. There is no balance!:tissue

Au contraire, Sis!

The poll asks who thinks the forum is ex-Pentecostal, not who's conservative and who is liberal!

I think Rico pretty clearly stated that in his opening post.....

[Michael Phelps]

Look, I don't think a poll is the proper method of determination here.

Many people will vote who won't post.

The fact is, the majority of those who post are exOP, anti-OP or headed for the door.

AFF draws them like flies.

Here, Rico.......my theory is proven masterfully.

"THE MAJORITY" of those who post are exOP, anti-OP, or headed for the door."

Just curious, PP, how do you quantify this statement? Or, is this just your perception?

[StillStanding]

CC1, I miss the old dynamic of FCF too. I wasn't there QUITE in the beginning. I came along around February 2004.

But you yourself quoted above the very reason for that dynamic to be gone ... NOT Dan or anyone else being "divisive."

It's plain as day that this forum was founded as a perversion of Jim Yohe's goals ... from Day One AFF was to give the illusion that "ole time pentecost"'s extra-biblical positions and mindsets were winning intellectually and by repartee with the help of censorship and coercion.

I never say "I told you so" but I had that one pegged from the very beginning.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=7761#post7761

Very prophetic, bald-headed one! :) To continue Jim's vision would require a UPC preacher to offer himself as a martyr. The price is too heavy!

[Michael Phelps]

Nope. Just sad and pitiful.

I must agree with Cneasttx here, I had a feeling this thread was heading down this path when it was started.

Once again, the issue is not the issue, it's personal........I haven't read the entire thread, so if something changed toward the end, someone PM me, otherwise, I'm not wasting my time.

[Rico]

Timlan, How do you know that the internet is truly having an impact on the minds of those who come and lurk? Have you objective proof? Have you met or talked to "ole time pentecostals" who have changed their point of view regarding dress standards and salvation doctrine from reading something here of on the internet? Or is this something you are saying because of what you read on this little microcism called AFF?

Without a doubt the internet is having an impact on the apostolic church's viewpoint. It has given a voice to those who previously had no voice in the Church. It's given people the opportunity ask questions they've never been able to ask from their church leaders (out of fear). It has also opened the door for them to find other people with the same views. There is strength in numbers. It is still too early to know what the impact this new and open form of discussion is going to have on the Church, but I definitely believe it is going to have a lasting impact.

[Rico]

Rico, wrong question posed.
Now some other questions could be asked but they would be hitting a few more Bulls Eyes!

1. Is AFF filled with people having Agendas?
2. Is AFF filled with ex UPC'ers who are bitter?

That would be interesting.:hypercoffee

Had I done that, the firestorm would probably result in heads rolling. Not my intention whatsoever. I just wanted to show the person who claimed that this is an ex-pentecostal site that it most certainly is not. I can tell how some people have defined "pentecostal" by the posts they have made in this thread. I didn't want to define "pentecostal" for everyone. To me it simply means those who believe in speaking in tongues, apart from other beliefs on salvation, standards, etc., etc. It is plain to see that, for others, other beliefs factor in to defining "pentecostal."

[SDG]

Had I done that, the firestorm would probably result in heads rolling. Not my intention whatsoever. I just wanted to show the person who claimed that this is an ex-pentecostal site that it most certainly is not. I can tell how some people have defined "pentecostal" by the posts they have made in this thread. I didn't want to define "pentecostal" for everyone. To me it simply means those who believe in speaking in tongues, apart from other beliefs on salvation, standards, etc., etc. It is plain to see that, for others, other beliefs factor in to defining "pentecostal."

Rico ... would you categorize this site as being anti-Pentecostal ... or that most here are anti-Oneness Pentecostal?

Do you believe the forum is stupid? Or that the bulk of the readers are dumb and gullible?

[Cindy]

I must agree with Cneasttx here, I had a feeling this thread was heading down this path when it was started.

Once again, the issue is not the issue, it's personal........I haven't read the entire thread, so if something changed toward the end, someone PM me, otherwise, I'm not wasting my time.

Same song, different verse.

[Rico]

You read the question wrong then. The poll is NOT whether it is an exUPC forum.

It is whether it is even a Pentecostal one! Absurd poll.

It is an absurd poll, started because of an absurd comment made by someone. On another thread, someone claimed this is an ex-pentecostal site. I wanted to show that person that his assessment was wrong. I expected an overwhelming majority of people to vote "no" and am a bit surprised at how close the votes are. Then again, I didn't consider that "pentecostal" would be defined as anything other than speaking in tongues.

[Cindy]

The better question might be, is this forum ex-Christian?

[Rico]

Very prophetic, bald-headed one! :) To continue Jim's vision would require a UPC preacher to offer himself as a martyr. The price is too heavy!

You said a mouthful, Pianoman.

[Rico]

Rico ... would you categorize this site as being anti-Pentecostal ... or that most here are anti-Oneness Pentecostal?

Do you believe the forum is stupid? Or that the bulk of the readers are dumb and gullible?

Absolutely not. However, I will say that I believe this forum is starting to lean heavily towards a one-stepper version of Christianity (in spite of the other poll I started).

[Nahum]

Rico ... would you categorize this site as being anti-Pentecostal ... or that most here are anti-Oneness Pentecostal?

Do you believe the forum is stupid? Or that the bulk of the readers are dumb and gullible?




Sometimes this forum is stupid. Matter of fact, a lot of the time it is.

Of course, the IQ goes up when I start posting again.

[Nahum]

Absolutely not. However, I will say that I believe this forum is starting to lean heavily towards a one-stepper version of Christianity (in spite of the other poll I started).

Oh boy.

Danny's gonna wet his britches when he reads that one!

All his hopes and dreams are coming true!

[SDG]

Here is my conspiracy theory for the evening.:drama

Daniel, for you to have any street cred on this site, you cling (very loosely) to the generic titles of Apostolic and/or Oneness Pentecostal.

Now, mind you, 4395% of your posts are anti-Oneness Pentecostal, but you know how to do the deal. You just claim to be OP and Apostolic (whatever that means) and most people are gullible enough, and dumb enough, to buy it.

This helps you in your agenda to convert most lurkers.

Let me compliment you.

You are the best I've seen at it.


Love ya Man!:bliss

PP, let's not tell any tall tales.

[Nahum]

PP, let's not tell any tall tales.

Whadda ya mean?

[CC1]

Totally agree. The foundation was built on quick sand. What CC1 fails to realize was that this was the agenda from the beginning. Although he waxed nostalgic for a forum of old .... he perhaps was duped into thinking that FCF or NFCF would be cloned here. With these men at the helm it was a genetic impossibility.

What transpired, I believe, was when controversy hit and they could not keep the appearance of "openness"... and, boy, did it from many sides .... they had to bail. The pressure from their peers .... or the perceived pressure ... was too much. Remaining "Apostolic", based on their definition, was vital.

It would have been nice to keep this "balanced" dynamic but it was a farce from the get-go as you so aptly predicted and the events that played out in January proved it. Once AFF proved to be a liability ... they could not stay.

Thank God for Renda Craig who kept this thing afloat.

If it makes you feel better to deny that poor judgement and a lack of wisdom in posting for the most part blew things up here then go for it. The truth is still the truth.

A little maturity in how one posts their views and a little respect for differing views is what kept FCF, NFCF and AFF going with that elusive dynamic I so miss.

All it took was some Johnny come lately's ( or mostly singular - A Johnny come lately) to come here with guns blazing with crude, rude words to make the more conservative leave in disgust.

It is silly to say they couldn't stand the heat and the other such garbage I see posted. They just could not stand the way in which the discussion was being handled with what they consider precioius truth being trashed in an insensitive way.

No one disagrees more with cons and ultra cons that I do but I and many more libs managed to have intelligent discourse and friendships with them on these forums. It can be done.

I wish this whole subject had not come up again because it disgusts me. A lot of good people were run off because of just plain stupidity and imaturity in posting.

[Nahum]

If it makes you feel better to deny that poor judgement and a lack of wisdom in posting for the most part blew things up here then go for it. The truth is still the truth.

A little maturity in how one posts their views and a little respect for differing views is what kept FCF, NFCF and AFF going with that elusive dynamic I so miss.

All it took was some Johnny come lately's ( or mostly singular - A Johnny come lately) to come here with guns blazing with crude, rude words to make the more conservative leave in disgust.

It is silly to say they couldn't stand the heat and the other such garbage I see posted. They just could not stand the way in which the discussion was being handled with what they consider precioius truth being trashed in an insensitive way.

No one disagrees more with cons and ultra cons that I do but I and many more libs managed to have intelligent discourse and friendships with them on these forums. It can be done.

I wish this whole subject had not come up again because it disgusts me. A lot of good people were run off because of just plain stupidity and imaturity in posting.


Excellent appraisal and spot on!

I'm with you Bro!

[timlan2057]

Dan, it's obvious when it comes to this particular subject of what killed NFCF, the motives for starting this forum AND what divided this forum ... CC1 prefers to live in the Land of Make Believe.

I've known CC1 a long time and know of his historical contempt for Jimmy Carter's presidency ... which for the most part, I share.

(By the way, thanks mainly to eight years of the worst presidency in my lifetime, I am now a proud member of the Libertarian Party and an ex-Republican.)

But ... CC1 is as gullible to the motives of the founders of this board as Jimmy Carter was to the Soviets.

Sigh.

And of course, those who do not understand how analogies fit certain points and eager to grab ANYTHING to salvage a point when they don't have one ... will start screaming that I said the cons were communists.

Oh well ...

CC1, by the way - I'm not the Defender of Dan -


But okay.

He posts a lot.

He's passionate about what he believes.

He was banned several times.

Dan doesn't near use the boorish insults Mark Bassett did when he posted.

So ... if you were a mod on old NFCF and Dan posted there ...

... would you ban Dan and let Mark Bassett post?

Why or why not?

Pray tell me how Dan is more disruptive to a message board than Bassett was.

[Rico]

Oh boy.

Danny's gonna wet his britches when he reads that one!

All his hopes and dreams are coming true!

For a long time, especially towards the end of FCF and during the NFCF era, I thought the forum was swinging towards becoming trinitarian. At the time, I didn't realize it was because I was connecting the one-stepper viewpoint with trinitarian beliefs about salvation. I've had to narrow the focus down to leaning towards becoming a one-stepper forum because I don't see anyone promoting the trinity version of the Godhead. Our one-step crowd seems to be very firmly planted in Oneness, even though I believe they are wrong on their beliefs on salvation.

[Rico]

If it makes you feel better to deny that poor judgement and a lack of wisdom in posting for the most part blew things up here then go for it. The truth is still the truth.

A little maturity in how one posts their views and a little respect for differing views is what kept FCF, NFCF and AFF going with that elusive dynamic I so miss.

All it took was some Johnny come lately's ( or mostly singular - A Johnny come lately) to come here with guns blazing with crude, rude words to make the more conservative leave in disgust.

It is silly to say they couldn't stand the heat and the other such garbage I see posted. They just could not stand the way in which the discussion was being handled with what they consider precioius truth being trashed in an insensitive way.

No one disagrees more with cons and ultra cons that I do but I and many more libs managed to have intelligent discourse and friendships with them on these forums. It can be done.

I wish this whole subject had not come up again because it disgusts me. A lot of good people were run off because of just plain stupidity and imaturity in posting.

You always did give me the impression that you enjoyed feeling accepted by the conservative and ultra-conservative crowd, especially when they would share a meal with you. Never mind the fact that privately they probably thought you were as lost as a goose in a snowstorm.

[Nahum]

Dan, it's obvious when it comes to this particular subject of what killed NFCF, the motives for starting this forum AND what divided this forum ... CC1 prefers to live in the Land of Make Believe.

I've known CC1 a long time and know of his historical contempt for Jimmy Carter's presidency ... which for the most part, I share.

(By the way, thanks mainly to eight years of the worst presidency in my lifetime, I am now a proud member of the Libertarian Party and an ex-Republican.)

But ... CC1 is as gullible to the motives of the founders of this board as Jimmy Carter was to the Soviets.

Sigh.

And of course, those who do not understand how analogies fit certain points and eager to grab ANYTHING to salvage a point when they don't have one ... will start screaming that I said the cons were communists.

Oh well ...

CC1, by the way - I'm not the Defender of Dan -


But okay.

He posts a lot.

He's passionate about what he believes.

He was banned several times.

Dan doesn't near use the boorish insults Mark Bassett did when he posted.

So ... if you were a mod on old NFCF and Dan posted there ...

... would you ban Dan and let Mark Bassett post?

Why or why not?

Pray tell me how Dan is more disruptive to a message board than Bassett was.

Tim, why do you think the cons are Communists?:boxing

The answer to your questions are really simple.

Let me give you the two most over-used words in the short history of AFF.

Hyperbole is #1.

Hysteria is #2.

They both stink, if you get my drift.

I also think you confused passion with vitriol.

But hey, thanks for pointing out my hyperbolic hysteria.:happydance

[Nahum]

I do agree that GW Bush is the worst Republican President in history.

[Rico]

I do agree that GW Bush is the worst Republican President in history.

I think I hear Grasshopper headed this way! Get ready to discuss healthcare!! :D

[CC1]

Tim,

Mark Bassett was banned many times on the other forums and rightly so. DA would have been also.

Two wrongs don't make a right. Just because MB was prone to blow up the forum doesn't make DA doing the same thing right. They both were wrong.

I stand by my post but respect that you disagree.

Of course the UPCers who started AFF wanted it to be from an orthodox viewpoint with dissenters chiming in. That is and was no secret.

This was always supposed to be aforum coming from the Orthodox old time Oneness Pentecostal perspective but one that allowed discussion of that orthodoxy in an open manner.

That willingness to allow open discussion was based on the assumption of maturity in the posters and that they would do so in a respectful manner.

When the orthodoxy got trashed in a crude manner repeatedly and without restraint of course they abandoned the place.

[CC1]

You always did give me the impression that you enjoyed feeling accepted by the conservative and ultra-conservative crowd, especially when they would share a meal with you. Never mind the fact that privately they probably thought you were as lost as a goose in a snowstorm.

I have repeatedly posted that I know that Elder Epley and the others think I am lost as a goose and going to split hell wide open.

I posted that within the last week here.

I very much enjoy meeting folks from the forum and have been blessed by the fellowship and friendship of some cons and ultra cons but never have I had the delusion that they "accept me" as saved.

[Rico]

I have repeatedly posted that I know that Elder Epley and the others think I am lost as a goose and going to split hell wide open.

I posted that within the last week here.

I very much enjoy meeting folks from the forum and have been blessed by the fellowship and friendship of some cons and ultra cons but never have I had the delusion that they "accept me" as saved.

CC1, I am far from considering myself conservative, but I am far from considering myself liberal as well. I am sure you know that I find your brand of Christianity to be entirely too bland for my tastes, as I know you find my brand of Christianity too spicy for your tastes. However, I would thoroughly enjoy meeting you, enjoying some cookout together, and watching some tv on your big screen! When can I stop by? :D

[timlan2057]

Tim,


Of course the UPCers who started AFF wanted it to be from an orthodox viewpoint with dissenters chiming in. That is and was no secret.

This was always supposed to be aforum coming from the Orthodox old time Oneness Pentecostal perspective but one that allowed discussion of that orthodoxy in an open manner.




Now HERE is where we disagree vehemently.

This forum was founded with the idea the discussion was to be rigged and anything that the gang in charge didn't like would be censored under "preacher bashing."

That "doctrinal" statement sounds like the original FCF and we KNOW this forum wasn't anything like that one.


That willingness to allow open discussion was based on the assumption of maturity in the posters and that they would do so in a respectful manner.

When the orthodoxy got trashed in a crude manner repeatedly and without restraint of course they abandoned the place.



Now HERE is where I think you're living in a dream world.

They "abandoned the place" when they realized that trying to rig the board and promote their agenda with censorhip and heavy-handed moderating wouldn't work.

Orthodoxy wasn't "trashed in a crude manner" any more here than on FCF.

People who couldn't meet the arguments got frustrated and LABELED it trashing.

AND this "crude manner" stuff applied to the cons moreso than the reprobates and heathens.

If you are honest with yourself you KNOW that.

Dan posts a bit more than some.

But to blame him for "singlehandedly" destroying a forum and running off a bunch of good people who otherwise would have kissed the liberals on the cheek every morning is laughable, absurd, comical and the biggest myth I've ever heard in over four years of posting and reading pentecostal-themed message boards.

[SDG]

CC1 ... we will agree to disagree on this issue.

I make the following two observations as my last words w/ you about this ... until it's brought up again.

1. You are enamored w/ a forum FCF that has gone and past. Your feelings of nostalgia, as in common, may be blurring you to the realities of the past and presents situations. I lurked at NFCF ... and that drag outs there were second to none.

2. The former owners of this forum had an agenda of censorship and coersion. Many of us saw it rear it's head on many issues ... and other breaches of confidentiality proved that this was not the forum of Yohe ....

3. There was a blatant double standard that you have helped to perpetuate. The cons in the form of vigilante justice and wolf-pack mentality ostracized and ridiculed divergent thought for years .... See Posse and pulpits.

You, like our European allies (France) would rather appease these attacks ... for the sake of a fictional utopia.

Some of us decided to step up and face these accusations of having false doctrine, being ungodly and compromisers.

PP for all his antagonism towards my views ... would have to admit that this agenda even affected him personally.

Nuff said.

[Pressing-On]

Dan posts a bit more than some.

But to blame him for "singlehandedly" destroying a forum and running off a bunch of good people who otherwise would have kissed the liberals on the cheek every morning is laughable, absurd, comical and the biggest myth I've ever heard in over four years of posting and reading pentecostal-themed message boards.
I wasn't going to get involved in this topic, but I want to make one point. It was no secret that MB and I were not friends, but I can say one thing with all his warts - even though he was rude and cut people down he would never have made this statement about a Pentecostal style of worship.

I am ticked off about this post!

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=479578&postcount=75

That's the big difference in Dan and MB. You can be rude, but don't mock anything that someone is doing or how they respond to a move of God!

I don't care if someone is more emotional than they need to be, in some cases, it isn't right and the above statement is not funny, IMHO!

[Rico]

Jim Yohe's forum is long gone. Any attempt to recreate it, I don't care where in the spectrum you find yourself, is going to fail miserably.

[bkstokes]

I think I hear Grasshopper headed this way! Get ready to discuss healthcare!! :D

hahahhaahhhha :toofunny:toofunny

[timlan2057]

I wasn't going to get involved in this topic, but I want to make one point. It was no secret that MB and I were not friends, but I can say one thing with all his warts - even though he was rude and cut people down he would never have made this statement about a Pentecostal style of worship.

I am ticked off about this post!

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=479578&postcount=75

That's the big difference in Dan and MB. You can be rude, but don't mock anything that someone is doing or how they respond to a move of God!

I don't care if someone is more emotional than they need to be, in some cases, it isn't right and the above statement is not funny, IMHO!

PO, I got a feeling that Dan wouldn't have done a thing or two MB did. :drama

Now we're grasping at straws.

DA grew up in this and whatever he posts, he posts from the perspective of "been there, done that."

So this business of picking out posts and saying "So-and-so would NEVER have said THAT" is about as productive as - uh ... spitting up a rope.

[rgcraig]

This is a stupid thread.

There are probaby under 10 people on here that are actually non or ex-Pentecostal.

What a small view of Pentecostalism if you think this board is made up of a majority of ex-Pentecostal people.

Well, I'm 25 pages behind, so just ignore my ignorance of what this thread is about.

[SDG]

PO, I got a feeling that Dan wouldn't have done a thing or two MB did. :drama

Now we're grasping at straws.

DA grew up in this and whatever he posts, he posts from the perspective of "been there, done that."

So this business of picking out posts and saying "So-and-so would NEVER have said THAT" is about as productive as - uh ... spitting up a rope.

Definitely a hit and run post by PO

If she read the thread in entirely she would see the context of that post ... and my thoughts on being slain the spirit and speaking w/ reverence about what is of God .... furthermore I was posting about the picture as it would appear to an outsider.

PO go back read the thread in it's entirety and be honest.

[Pressing-On]

PO, I got a feeling that Dan wouldn't have done a thing or two MB did. :drama

Now we're grasping at straws.

DA grew up in this and whatever he posts, he posts from the perspective of "been there, done that."

So this business of picking out posts and saying "So-and-so would NEVER have said THAT" is about as productive as - uh ... spitting up a rope.
"Been there,done that" doesn't qualify a person to make fun of and disqualify a person's response to the God they serve. It ain't his business. :D

I can ignore rude and condescending, mostly (:D) but the other is unforgiveable in my book.

If you don't want to dance, then don't make fun of people who do. I don't care if they express themselves like a spasmodic chicken. And if they want to fall out, let them!

I used to attend a Baptist church - I ain't Baptist no mo! :shockamoo

Okay, I feel better for pointing that out. End of discussion for me.

[Pressing-On]

Definitely a hit and run post by PO

If she read the thread in entirely she would see the context of that post ... and my thoughts on being slain the spirit and speaking w/ reverence about what is of God .... furthermore I was posting about the picture as it would appear to an outsider.

PO go back read the thread in it's entirety and be honest.

I read the WHOLE ENTIRE THREAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!