STUNNING! UPC pastors says" NO more Blood Songs!

[StMark]

I recently talked to a leader in another church who was upset over the pastor's decision. The pastor met with the Min. of Music , musicians and praise singers and told them there would be No more songs about the Blood!

His reasoning was that it scares today's visitors who have no church background.


What do you think about this ? I think this would upset me too

[Sherri]

I recently talked to a leader in another church who was upset over the pastor's decision. The pastor met with the Min. of Music , musicians and praise singers and told them there would be No more songs about the Blood!

His reasoning was that it scares today's visitors who have no church background.


What do you think about this ? I think this would upset me too
That would weird me out totally. Thank God for the blood!!! I hope we never get too sophisticated to sing about it.

[StMark]

~ ~ Continued ~ ~


This Pastor went on to say that they were not allowed to perform the following:


1. From now on he only wanted "hill song" style. No gospel

2. They could not sing anymore slow songs for the worship service. only upbeat.


3. Absolutley NO More Hymns could be sung.


I'm not making this up. we came to the conclusion he probably went to one of those mega church growth seminars and came home and decided he would impliment their ways of doing things.

Needless to say, he has a lot of upset leaders as a result. I think some pastors are blaming the wrong things for the reasons for not growing


what says you??/

[CC1]

I recently talked to a leader in another church who was upset over the pastor's decision. The pastor met with the Min. of Music , musicians and praise singers and told them there would be No more songs about the Blood!

His reasoning was that it scares today's visitors who have no church background.


What do you think about this ? I think this would upset me too

Even my Baptiscostal mega exUPC lib church makes a point to talk about how we do still sing about the blood and the importance of the blood of Jesus so I am very surprised to see a UPC church take this tact.

I do think it helps to explain the lyrics of these songs if you see visitors who might have no church background.

I also think it makes sense to not sing old songs whose meaning is no longer relevent like "Jesus on the mainline". 98% of people today don't have a clue about old time telephone exchanges and what a mainline is. The common thought of a mainline today has to do with heroin consumption!

[StMark]

Even my Baptiscostal mega exUPC lib church makes a point to talk about how we do still sing about the blood and the importance of the blood of Jesus so I am very surprised to see a UPC church take this tact.

I do think it helps to explain the lyrics of these songs if you see visitors who might have no church background.

I also think it makes sense to not sing old songs whose meaning is no longer relevent like "Jesus on the mainline". 98% of people today don't have a clue about old time telephone exchanges and what a mainline is. The common thought of a mainline today has to do with heroin consumption!

Me thinks that some of our young ministers who are going to these Rick warran joel Osteen and Crystal cathedral are messing their heads up

The church service is a believer's meeting. winning souls is to be done in the community

[CC1]

Me thinks that some of our young ministers who are going to these Rick warran joel Osteen and Crystal cathedral are messing their heads up

The church service is a believer's meeting. winning souls is to be done in the community

Or you could have the fundamental facts wrong as you have done before!!!!:happydance:bliss:boxing:gaga

[StMark]

Or you could have the fundamental facts wrong as you have done before!!!!:happydance:bliss:boxing:gaga



NOPE absolutley not - I know the situation very well.

[Hoovie]

I recently talked to a leader in another church who was upset over the pastor's decision. The pastor met with the Min. of Music , musicians and praise singers and told them there would be No more songs about the Blood!

His reasoning was that it scares today's visitors who have no church background.


What do you think about this ? I think this would upset me too



I am a little leery of the "you gotta shockamoo" crowd, but on this issue I am hardcore. The message of the cross and forgiveness through the blood of Jesus is THE message of the church... ALL else matters little in comparison.

[Cindy]

You mean no more
There is power, power, wonder working power, in the______of the lamb?
Oh, the_____that gives me strength from day to day, it will never lose it's power?

[CC1]

I am a little leery of the "you gotta shockamoo" crowd, but on this issue I am hardcore. The message of the cross and forgiveness through the blood of Jesus is THE message of the church... ALL else matters little in comparison.

Ditto.

[chosenbyone]

Week before last, the choral at Life did a melody of songs about the blood and they ushered in such a wonderful presence of God. I don't think that having a pastor state that the church should steer clear of singing about the blood would fly in most churches.

[CC1]

I think we should also do away with any songs that make a reference to water since some people are afraid of the water.

We would not want to be responsible for any anxiety attacks.

[Praxeas]

I recently talked to a leader in another church who was upset over the pastor's decision. The pastor met with the Min. of Music , musicians and praise singers and told them there would be No more songs about the Blood!

His reasoning was that it scares today's visitors who have no church background.


What do you think about this ? I think this would upset me too
Absurd and "seeker friendly" run amuck. BTW How many people in America are unfamiliar with the fact that Jesus died for us? Even atheists know we believe that and would not be without a clue. How many people in America have no church back ground either? Even a Muslim knows we believe Jesus died and shed his blood for us....

[rrford]

The eptiome of religious stupidity.

[Bro-Larry]

Sounds like a "soon-to-be-ex-UPC" pastor.

[Cindy]

Sounds like a "soon-to-be-ex-UPC" pastor.

Hey, when y'all coming down for a visit? Would love to hear you sing again.

[LadyCoonskinner]

I think we should also do away with any songs that make a reference to water since some people are afraid of the water.

We would not want to be responsible for any anxiety attacks.

You are waaaayyyy too funny for your own good CC1.:toofunny

[StMark]

You are waaaayyyy too funny for your own good CC1.:toofunny


He is definitley on a roll tonight!

[StMark]

Sounds like a "soon-to-be-ex-UPC" pastor.



To my surprise most of the Xupcers and such are against this notion too!

[StMark]

Absurd and "seeker friendly" run amuck. BTW How many people in America are unfamiliar with the fact that Jesus died for us? Even atheists know we believe that and would not be without a clue. How many people in America have no church back ground either? Even a Muslim knows we believe Jesus died and shed his blood for us....



Not only that Prax, It's not like people scare that easy today. most of them watch bloody gore in the movies yet we are suppose to worry about grossing sinners out with bloody songs ????

[StMark]

You mean no more
There is power, power, wonder working power, in the______of the lamb?
Oh, the_____that gives me strength from day to day, it will never lose it's power?


This is one of specifics songs that was brought up in the meeting!

"the blood will never lose its power"... Pastor says that song will frieghten today's unchurched visitor !!!

[rrford]

The truth is that songs or messages about the blood, Calvary, the Rapture, hell, eternity, etc. do not move people anymore. This generation has become desensitized to most anything that would affect their emotions.

If truth be known, the pastor is probably not seeing the emtional response he wants to see and is blaming it on the content of the songs that should bring conviction in favor of "feel good" songs that absolve folks from feeling conviction. JMHO.

[Sam]

I recently talked to a leader in another church who was upset over the pastor's decision. The pastor met with the Min. of Music , musicians and praise singers and told them there would be No more songs about the Blood!

His reasoning was that it scares today's visitors who have no church background.


What do you think about this ? I think this would upset me too

Is the pastor affiliated with the UPC?

[StMark]

The truth is that songs or messages about the blood, Calvary, the Rapture, hell, eternity, etc. do not move people anymore. This generation has become desensitized to most anything that would affect their emotions.

If truth be known, the pastor is probably not seeing the emtional response he wants to see and is blaming it on the content of the songs that should bring conviction in favor of "feel good" songs that absolve folks from feeling conviction. JMHO.



You are saying the cross no longer convicts??

now I would concur that hell no longer scares anyone

when our church sings songs about the blood, especially when we reach back to the old ones, they are always effective. I am frankly tired of us trying to lower the bar to appease sinners who have little or no knowledge of God. why should we gage our services strictly according to their standard?

[Esther]

I recently talked to a leader in another church who was upset over the pastor's decision. The pastor met with the Min. of Music , musicians and praise singers and told them there would be No more songs about the Blood!

His reasoning was that it scares today's visitors who have no church background.


What do you think about this ? I think this would upset me too

A Baptist teacher once told me anybody that couldn't say or didn't want to hear about the Blood of Jesus, has serious problems.

I agree!

[StMark]

Is the pastor affiliated with the UPC?

He most definitely is

[Sam]

I remember a woman telling me that her son was "traumatized" by seeing a depiction of Jesus on the cross at a church. He was pretty upset to think that someone was actually nailed to a cross.

Think we ought to take the cross out of all songs, references, and sermons?

[Cindy]

You mean no more
There is power, power, wonder working power, in the______of the lamb?
Oh, the_____that gives me strength from day to day, it will never lose it's power?


This is one of specifics songs that was brought up in the meeting!

"the blood will never lose its power"... Pastor says that song will frieghten today's unchurched visitor !!!

Didn't Andrae Crouch write that song? I love that song. I was just singing it when I went to get a cup of coffee.

[rrford]

You are saying the cross no longer convicts??

now I would concur that hell no longer scares anyone

when our church sings songs about the blood, especially when we reach back to the old ones, they are always effective. I am frankly tired of us trying to lower the bar to appease sinners who have little or no knowledge of God. why should we gage our services strictly according to their standard?

As a rule such songs and messages do not move people the way they used to. I travel extensively and am amazed at the seeming calloused disinterest in such topics when they are preached. I am not saying there is never a response. Just a general malaise that seems to be slipping in upon the church at large.

The cross should always convict. But let us not forget that at the actual Calvary the majority of folks mocked, ridiculed and gambled while the blood flowed. Only a few were actually moved.

[StMark]

[QUOTE=StMark;479182]

Didn't Andrae Crouch write that song? I love that song. I was just singing it when I went to get a cup of coffee.



Yes, he wrote that song. He and his twin sister pastor a church here in CA.

[Esther]

You are saying the cross no longer convicts??

now I would concur that hell no longer scares anyone

when our church sings songs about the blood, especially when we reach back to the old ones, they are always effective. I am frankly tired of us trying to lower the bar to appease sinners who have little or no knowledge of God. why should we gage our services strictly according to their standard?

I agree!

[Esther]

I wouldn't be surprised if skeltons come out of the closet in the future. :(:tissue

[Sam]

[QUOTE=StMark;479182]

Didn't Andrae Crouch write that song? I love that song. I was just singing it when I went to get a cup of coffee.

Isn't Andrae Crouch trinitarian and therefore unsaved?
Should Apostolic people sing songs written by sinners?

[rrford]

I agree!

I also agree. But the obvious conclusions of how to do that will not be liked by many folks.

[Cindy]

I remember a woman telling me that her son was "traumatized" by seeing a depiction of Jesus on the cross at a church. He was pretty upset to think that someone was actually nailed to a cross.

Think we ought to take the cross out of all songs, references, and sermons?

We all should be upset when we think of someone being nailed to a cross. But we should also be thankful for a Savior that would be nailed to a tree and shed his blood for us to be saved.

[StMark]

As a rule such songs and messages do not move people the way they used to. I travel extensively and am amazed at the seeming calloused disinterest in such topics when they are preached. I am not saying there is never a response. Just a general malaise that seems to be slipping in upon the church at large.

The cross should always convict. But let us not forget that at the actual Calvary the majority of folks mocked, ridiculed and gambled while the blood flowed. Only a few were actually moved.


Yea, I remember when Hell fire or the rapture was preached, people would run to the alter. now, people yawn while you talk about those things.
I wonder made people so hardened. maybe the movies? I'm not sure.

I think that's why XUPC churches and non denom. churches like warran and Osteen are preaching the Doc Phil 12 step program type sermons.

[StMark]

I also agree. But the obvious conclusions of how to do that will not be liked by many folks.

what is it in your estimation?

[StMark]

[QUOTE=cneasttx;479194]

Isn't Andrae Crouch trinitarian and therefore unsaved?
Should Apostolic people sing songs written by sinners?


now sam, what made you go off on that tangent ???

[StMark]

I wouldn't be surprised if skeltons come out of the closet in the future. :(:tissue


what are you talking about ???

[Cindy]

[QUOTE=cneasttx;479194]

Isn't Andrae Crouch trinitarian and therefore unsaved?
Should Apostolic people sing songs written by sinners?

I don't know if he is or not, but I am certain the annointing of God was on him when he wrote that song.
I also don't think he was a sinner.

[mizpeh]

I tried to reply to Sam and found my reply in Cindy's post! How'd that happen?

[rrford]

Yea, I remember when Hell fire or the rapture was preached, people would run to the alter. now, people yawn while you talk about those things.
I wonder made people so hardened. maybe the movies? I'm not sure.

I think that's why XUPC churches and non denom. churches like warran and Osteen are preaching the Doc Phil 12 step program type sermons.

I made the statement to a group of young ministers a month or so ago that not only did the previous 15 years or so bring an overall desensitization to the America and the church, that desensitization has now led to indifference.

Not only do people not feel anything anymore, they do not care that they do not feel anything anymore. Now self-justification runs rampant and like James said "They forget what manner of man they saw in the mirror. Desensitization that leads to indifference is one step from extinction, IMHO.

[Cindy]

[QUOTE=cneasttx;479194]



Yes, he wrote that song. He and his twin sister pastor a church here in CA.

It is an awesome song to sing if you have a good organist.

[Cindy]

I made the statement to a group of young ministers a month or so ago that not only did the previous 15 years or so bring an overall desensitization to the America and the church, that desensitization has now led to indifference.

Not only do people not feel anything anymore, they do not care that they do not feel anything anymore. Now self-justification runs rampant and like James said "They forget what manner of man they saw in the mirror. Desensitization that leads to indifference is one step from extinction, IMHO.

I have been really thinking about this RR. They do not care that they do not feel anything anymore. Apathy, even about themselves much less others. Is that being a repobate?

[Esther]

I also agree. But the obvious conclusions of how to do that will not be liked by many folks.

You are 100% right on that!

[StMark]

I made the statement to a group of young ministers a month or so ago that not only did the previous 15 years or so bring an overall desensitization to the America and the church, that desensitization has now led to indifference.

Not only do people not feel anything anymore, they do not care that they do not feel anything anymore. Now self-justification runs rampant and like James said "They forget what manner of man they saw in the mirror. Desensitization that leads to indifference is one step from extinction, IMHO.



I can't argue you with that R. Nothing but the real anointing is going to do in this day. Even the churches that are thriving off of gimicks will come to knot eventually. Unless the LOrd sends another great awakening or Day of Pentecost to America, I predict you will see many churches start closing their doors in the years to come. I hate to sound negative, but that's how i see it

[Sam]

[QUOTE=Sam;479202]


now sam, what made you go off on that tangent ???

maybe I'm being a conservative,

and,

maybe I'm just being sarcastic.

[Esther]

what are you talking about ???

IMO there is more than "we don't want to upset the visitors"!

I hope I am wrong, but time will tell.

For me I would fear God would write Icabod on my door if I was ashamed of His Blood!

[Esther]

I can't argue you with that R. Nothing but the real anointing is going to do in this day. Even the churches that are thriving off of gimicks will come to knot eventually. Unless the LOrd sends another great awakening or Day of Pentecost to America, I predict you will see many churches start closing their doors in the years to come. I hate to sound negative, but that's how i see it

God's Glory will only stay in true worshipping churches. You can mark that down!

[CC1]

You are waaaayyyy too funny for your own good CC1.:toofunny

Dr. Vaughn thinks I am an absolute riot! He is probably organizing a fan club as we speak.:happydance:bliss

The next time he posts a new pic for his avatar just to the right of that case full of William Branham cassette tapes will be an 8x1o pic of me!

[Cindy]

IMO there is more than "we don't want to upset the visitors"!

I hope I am wrong, but time will tell.

For me I would fear God would write Icabod on my door if I was ashamed of His Blood!

You feel this "spirit" also? I have been thinking about this lately. How insidious the enemy is becoming in the church. And it's almost like some don't even notice.

I fear if we aren't covered by the blood he will pass over us. That is frightening to me.

[CC1]

[QUOTE=cneasttx;479194]



Yes, he wrote that song. He and his twin sister pastor a church here in CA.

*THREAD HIJACK ALERT*

Back in the late 70's when Andre Crouch was at the peak of his success he gave a concert one afternoon at Mississippi College in JAX, MS when I was at JCM.

A bunch of us JCMers went to the concert and some got to talking to him afterwards and mentioned JCM, FPC & Lanny Wolfe.

Of course he knew LW so when he found out LW was at FPC holding choir practice with the FPC choir Andre decidd to drop by and surprise him.

I drove to the church and it was so cool when Andre Crouch walked in that fellowship hall door. He ended up singing some for the choir and seemed to have a realy good time.

It was a choir practice where the choir got blessed hearing someone else sing.

I love good ole jammin Black Gospel and around this period, 1977-1979 the JCM choir did a lot of Walter, Edwin, & Tramaine Hawkins songs along with Andre Crouch ,etc.

It is hard to believe that was 30 years ago! BTW Andre Crouch was at Dottie Rambo's funeral at CC.

[Esther]

I made the statement to a group of young ministers a month or so ago that not only did the previous 15 years or so bring an overall desensitization to the America and the church, that desensitization has now led to indifference.

Not only do people not feel anything anymore, they do not care that they do not feel anything anymore. Now self-justification runs rampant and like James said "They forget what manner of man they saw in the mirror. Desensitization that leads to indifference is one step from extinction, IMHO.

I'm seeing the same thing in families. How many still have family reunions where nearly all still attend? The older ones yes. But the younger generation is doing their own thing.

So not only is the church family experiencing changes so is the natural families.

BUT remember if the enemy can first destroy the home, then the church, then the nation.

[Hoovie]

This thread inspires me folks - It reminds me there is much worth fighting for!

May we never lose the sanctity and holiness of the cross of Jesus.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins,if we quit singing about the blood of Jesus Christ what's next throwing out the virgin birth ?

[Hoovie]

I'm seeing the same thing in families. How many still have family reunions where nearly all still attend? The older ones yes. But the younger generation is doing their own thing.

So not only is the church family experiencing changes so is the natural families.

BUT remember if the enemy can first destroy the home, then the church, then the nation.

Very good thought Esther.

We are all getting together tomorrow... sort of an annual thing we do in honor of my late father and patriarch of the family. Elam N Hoover

[Hoovie]

Without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness of sins,if we quit singing about the blood of Jesus Christ what's next throwing out the virgin birth ?

"Christian" clubs have no need of forgiveness of sin.

[SDG]

Ludicrous. Christianity without the Cross.

[Neck]

I recently talked to a leader in another church who was upset over the pastor's decision. The pastor met with the Min. of Music , musicians and praise singers and told them there would be No more songs about the Blood!

His reasoning was that it scares today's visitors who have no church background.


What do you think about this ? I think this would upset me too


The Preaching of the Cross is the Power of God.

The Cross brings conviction upon the hearts of men.

[Pragmatist]

I made the statement to a group of young ministers a month or so ago that not only did the previous 15 years or so bring an overall desensitization to the America and the church, that desensitization has now led to indifference.

Not only do people not feel anything anymore, they do not care that they do not feel anything anymore. Now self-justification runs rampant and like James said "They forget what manner of man they saw in the mirror. Desensitization that leads to indifference is one step from extinction, IMHO.

I think this is very true. What do you think has caused desensitization? And how can it be overcome?

[rrford]

IMO, it has been the combination of many things. World tragedies more abundant, the onslaught of technology, the eroding of decency standards in Hollywood, declining morals in America, the rising crime rate, etc. Sadly, as goes the world, so goes the church in too many cases.

As I stated, the desinsitization has now led to indifference. It used to be that folks would eventually respond although they had initially overrode conviction. I think we are seeing less and less of that.

My personal opinion, and some would strongly disagree, is that we need an incredible, undenyable move of the Holy Ghost coupled with a stronger pulpit than we have had in quite a while. (Notice I said stronger pulpit, not stronger personalities or abuse of the pulpit.)

[Maximilia]

St. Mark--this is awful and stunning, yes! Makes me just sick! I'm so thankful for the old fashioned, "I plead the blood of Jesus." Uh, I realize some have picked this apart too!

I can say I've lead worship many times, in a very rough inner city church setting, where we'd be fighting demonic spirits, and I'd start singing about the blood and somehow, things changed.

Someone, somewhere, once said you should try to present in every service--the blood of Jesus and the return of Jesus (Rapture).

What exactly are "seeker friendly" churches attempting to showcase? What's the point? I'm totally not impressed!

[Maximilia]

Bring on some hymns. I miss them and so do many others. Have the Operas shut down, because some folks prefer rap? Have the Civic Orchestras closed because some prefer country music? I think not. Who's really to say that everyone likes the modern hillsong style music. Are we just appealing to a certain crowd with this style? Hmmm?

What really could be more RELEVANT than a song like--This World is Not My Home?

[CC1]

Bring on some hymns. I miss them and so do many others. Have the Operas shut down, because some folks prefer rap? Have the Civic Orchestras closed because some prefer country music? I think not. Who's really to say that everyone likes the modern hillsong style music. Are we just appealing to a certain crowd with this style? Hmmm?

What really could be more RELEVANT than a song like--This World is Not My Home?

I like some of the hymns. The classics like The Old Rugged Cross, Amazing Grace, etc. They are timeless and powerful.

However at my church we sing one congregational hymn on Sunday to keep the old geezers happy and while about half the time I really enjoy it the other half the time they sing some horrible one I have never heard of before. I think it is my churches outreach to visiting Baptiss, Methodists, and Presbyrtarians cause I sure never heard them in a Pentecostal church growin up. All of the other music at my church is awesome.

[StMark]

Bring on some hymns. I miss them and so do many others. Have the Operas shut down, because some folks prefer rap? Have the Civic Orchestras closed because some prefer country music? I think not. Who's really to say that everyone likes the modern hillsong style music. Are we just appealing to a certain crowd with this style? Hmmm?

What really could be more RELEVANT than a song like--This World is Not My Home?


some hymns transcend time and should continue to be a blessing to the church. I see no reason to cut them out of the mix. on the other hand, there are some that were good for that time and season. "the Royal telephone" comes to mind lol I too don't know what it is that so many are copying every dot and tiddle that the charismatics are doing. Don't we have our indentity at all ???

[Cindy]

It Is Well With My Soul. This should be a pentecostal hymn. In my opinion.

[StMark]

IMO, it has been the combination of many things. World tragedies more abundant, the onslaught of technology, the eroding of decency standards in Hollywood, declining morals in America, the rising crime rate, etc. Sadly, as goes the world, so goes the church in too many cases.

As I stated, the desinsitization has now led to indifference. It used to be that folks would eventually respond although they had initially overrode conviction. I think we are seeing less and less of that.

My personal opinion, and some would strongly disagree, is that we need an incredible, undenyable move of the Holy Ghost coupled with a stronger pulpit than we have had in quite a while. (Notice I said stronger pulpit, not stronger personalities or abuse of the pulpit.)

define what YOU mean by " stronger pulpit" ? I don't think anyone would agree we need a move of the holy ghost. I think the bottom line is, most of the ministry stopped praying. the level of of consecration is low. noticed I didn't say "rules and codes". I'm around the ministry and I was around the old preachers too and can say there is a big difference

[StMark]

It Is Well With My Soul. This should be a pentecostal hymn. In my opinion.



awesome song!

[Scott Hutchinson]

Keep the real music in the church,get a fiddle player and a banjo and mandolin and a upright bass player and a flat top guitar picker and do songs like Jesus hold my hand and the great speckled bird and have real music in the church.

[CC1]

There is actually a modern song that does not have a catchy melody but the words are so powerful that it just grips me every time we sing it. It is "In Christ Alone".

I posted the lyrics one time either here or back on NFCF and I think everybody from ultra con to lib agreed they were powerful.

[Cindy]

awesome song!

Yes it is, but makes me brush up on my alto.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I would agree we need a return to The Bible in the churches in our land.
Preachers need to make sure what they preach is bible and not the traditions of man.
We need to preach and live the word and pray without ceasing.

[StMark]

Yes it is, but makes me brush up on my alto.



OH! you're an alto uh? give me an Awwww!! ...now give me an woooo. LOL

I always tell my altos that they are in between the 2 slices of bread in a sandwich, which is the MEAT :happydance

[CC1]

St. Mark,

Are you coming to the Christ Church music conference this summer? Bill and Gloria Gaither are the featured guests and I know what a fan you are!

[rrford]

define what YOU mean by " stronger pulpit" ? I don't think anyone would agree we need a move of the holy ghost. I think the bottom line is, most of the ministry stopped praying. the level of of consecration is low. noticed I didn't say "rules and codes". I'm around the ministry and I was around the old preachers too and can say there is a big difference

I mean a pulpit that returns to preaching about sin, hell, eternity, the Rapture. A strong pulpit does so with compassion, commitment and passion. The feel good messages are leaving the church passionless.

[Maximilia]

Don't get me wrong at all, I love all types and kinds of music. I love Black Gospel, modern praise and worship, but I also love some of those classic hymns. I go to a lot of conferences and I must say I really see an unmistakable shift and unity when they pull out some of the older classics.

On another note, a good friend (who rarely goes to church anywhere) shared with me that her backslidden sister, who grew up in her pre-teen years in our very pentecostal church, misses those songs we used to sing so much and the way the pastor would dress up in a suit. She's been going to other churches and all, but they just don't sing those songs!

[StMark]

St. Mark,

Are you coming to the Christ Church music conference this summer? Bill and Gloria Gaither are the featured guests and I know what a fan you are!

LOL! of course I am! :happydance man you been eatin' too many mushrooms again :happydance

I will be in Nashville 2nd week of August though. you and PM need to stop by!

[Cindy]

OH! you're an alto uh? give me an Awwww!! ...now give me an woooo. LOL

I always tell my altos that they are in between the 2 slices of bread in a sandwich, which is the MEAT :happydance

Don't I know it. Like words don't matter, but you come in with that awwww and woooo and timing!!!:bliss

[Cindy]

I mean a pulpit that returns to preaching about sin, hell, eternity, the Rapture. A strong pulpit does so with compassion, commitment and passion. The feel good messages are leaving the church passionless.

Amen!!!!!!!

[StMark]

Don't get me wrong at all, I love all types and kinds of music. I love Black Gospel, modern praise and worship, but I also love some of those classic hymns. I go to a lot of conferences and I must say I really see an unmistakable shift and unity when they pull out some of the older classics.

On another note, a good friend (who rarely goes to church anywhere) shared with me that her backslidden sister, who grew up in her pre-teen years in our very pentecostal church, misses those songs we used to sing so much and the way the pastor would dress up in a suit. She's been going to other churches and all, but they just don't sing those songs!


why doesn't she come back then?

as a music director, I am always mindful of the past while embracing the present and future of music. It's a tricky balance sometimes especially when you are a transgenerational and multi ethnic church.
You'll never make everyone happy but you can get close if you most of try to follow the spirit and what pleases God.

[CC1]

I mean a pulpit that returns to preaching about sin, hell, eternity, the Rapture. A strong pulpit does so with compassion, commitment and passion. The feel good messages are leaving the church passionless.

One of Dan Scott's reocurring themes this year has been that people must find transformation at church.

If they are just coming to hear good music, drink coffee in the cafe, hear sermons on positive thinking, then they might as well spend Sunday at the mall.

[Encryptus]

~ ~ Continued ~ ~


This Pastor went on to say that they were not allowed to perform the following:


1. From now on he only wanted "hill song" style. No gospel

2. They could not sing anymore slow songs for the worship service. only upbeat.


3. Absolutley NO More Hymns could be sung.


I'm not making this up. we came to the conclusion he probably went to one of those mega church growth seminars and came home and decided he would impliment their ways of doing things.

Needless to say, he has a lot of upset leaders as a result. I think some pastors are blaming the wrong things for the reasons for not growing


what says you??/

Sounds like he graduated from Lakewood School of Music.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Yes church shouldn't be all about feeling good it's really good to get under conviction ,and yes people should getting ready and staying ready to meet The Lord.

[rrford]

One of Dan Scott's reocurring themes this year has been that people must find transformation at church.

If they are just coming to hear good music, drink coffee in the cafe, hear sermons on positive thinking, then they might as well spend Sunday at the mall.


Sadly too many treat church as some kind of spiritual shopping mall. They only want a "specialty store" that fits within their economy of what comprises a walk with God. In other words, they are defining what God should be telling them and giving them instead of simply coming to the marketplace of the Lord for whatever He has for that day.

[Michael The Disciple]

It is absurd to say Hillsong has nothing to do with the Cross. I prefer their music to almost anything I have heard in an Apostolic Church.

No cross? Take the challenge of listening to this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eiy3_KRKNaQ

Someone is passing along lies it would seem if they say Hillsong does not sing about the cross.

[RandyWayne]

Sadly too many treat church as some kind of spiritual shopping mall. They only want a "specialty store" that fits within their economy of what comprises a walk with God. In other words, they are defining what God should be telling them and giving them instead of simply coming to the marketplace of the Lord for whatever He has for that day.

So you saw that episode of King of the Hill as well? LOL

[Michael The Disciple]

Lies that Hillsong has nothing to do with the blood of Jesus and his cross will do nothing to help the one who makes them up.

Hillsong And The Blood:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wej1jHtiH-M

[rrford]

So you saw that episode of King of the Hill as well? LOL

Actually, no. Was it similar?

[Michael The Disciple]

~ ~ Continued ~ ~


This Pastor went on to say that they were not allowed to perform the following:


1. From now on he only wanted "hill song" style. No gospel

2. They could not sing anymore slow songs for the worship service. only upbeat.


3. Absolutley NO More Hymns could be sung.


I'm not making this up. we came to the conclusion he probably went to one of those mega church growth seminars and came home and decided he would impliment their ways of doing things.

Needless to say, he has a lot of upset leaders as a result. I think some pastors are blaming the wrong things for the reasons for not growing


what says you??/

So this makes it seem Hillsong does not sing about the cross and the blood of Jesus. Now Mark you may not be aware that what you posted is not true. Now you know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AR4CCLnmf1Q&feature=related

[RandyWayne]

Actually, no. Was it similar?

I would post the video but it looks like YouTube pulled it. They were looking for a new church and Peggy was trying to convince Hank to attend a new mega-church and listing all their programs and benefits. Hank goes "Mmmmm.... It sounds no different than going to the mall and thinking about Jesus" -to paraphrase.

[George]

[QUOTE=Michael The Disciple;479444]So this makes it seem Hillsong does not sing about the cross and the blood of Jesus. Now Mark you may not be aware that what you posted is not true. Now you know.

You should read what St. Mark said before you accuse him of not telling the truth. He said the pastor that didn't want any songs about the "blood" also said:
1. From now on he only wanted "hill song" style. No gospel

Did you catch the word "style?" He didn't say Hillsongs deleted the cross or the blood. He referred to their style of music.

[George]

IMO there is more than "we don't want to upset the visitors"!

I hope I am wrong, but time will tell.

For me I would fear God would write Icabod on my door if I was ashamed of His Blood!

I agree wholeheartedly. I was even thinking it is close to blaspheme to take reference to the blood of Christ out of church. If the church St. Mark is referring to is the same one that I heard about, I think the pastor needs to do some serious fasting and praying and get ahold of God before he loses his congregation.

[StMark]

[QUOTE=Michael The Disciple;479444]So this makes it seem Hillsong does not sing about the cross and the blood of Jesus. Now Mark you may not be aware that what you posted is not true. Now you know.

You should read what St. Mark said before you accuse him of not telling the truth. He said the pastor that didn't want any songs about the "blood" also said:
1. From now on he only wanted "hill song" style. No gospel

Did you catch the word "style?" He didn't say Hillsongs deleted the cross or the blood. He referred to their style of music.






YOU GO GEORGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!

TELL 'EM ! ! ! ! ! ! !! ! ! ! !! !! ! ! !







.

[StMark]

Some folk been eatin' too much cabbage late at night .... NO NAMES MENTIONED :bliss:bliss:bliss:bliss:bliss:bliss:bliss:bliss:b liss






.

[stmatthew]

I think the sad fact is that until preachers get tired of powerless preaching that we will continue to see the decline of the Pentecost in the Church.. It is not just the saints that have become indifferent, it is the preachers as well. Hence we see more and more that the power of God is being replaced with more "social type" programs, as well as more "emotional" services.

[TRFrance]

I guess his intentions are good.
But i think the man is sadly misguided.

[Esther]

I think the sad fact is that until preachers get tired of powerless preaching that we will continue to see the decline of the Pentecost in the Church.. It is not just the saints that have become indifferent, it is the preachers as well. Hence we see more and more that the power of God is being replaced with more "social type" programs, as well as more "emotional" services.

You will generally find that whatever spirit the pastor has transfers to the church. If he is a praying man, he will have a praying church. They may not pray as much as he does, but they will be praying.

If he is a playing man, then he will have a playing church.

JMO:happydance

[Michael The Disciple]

[QUOTE=Michael The Disciple;479444]So this makes it seem Hillsong does not sing about the cross and the blood of Jesus. Now Mark you may not be aware that what you posted is not true. Now you know.

You should read what St. Mark said before you accuse him of not telling the truth. He said the pastor that didn't want any songs about the "blood" also said:
1. From now on he only wanted "hill song" style. No gospel

Did you catch the word "style?" He didn't say Hillsongs deleted the cross or the blood. He referred to their style of music.

I will use this as an example. If someone said for instance "We dont want the David Bernard STYLE of preaching." Then the next thing said would be they did not want any preaching about the blood of Christ. It would be clear they were connecting the two together. DB and not preaching the blood. Same thing was done to Hillsong.

Mark went on on say:


1. From now on he only wanted "hill song" style. No gospel

2. They could not sing anymore slow songs for the worship service. only upbeat.


3. Absolutley NO More Hymns could be sung.

If by gospel we mean that Christ died for our sins and rose again if it were Mark or whoever said this was totally wrong. Whoever it was that insinuates Hillsong does not do slow songs was totally wrong. Whoever it was that surmises that Hillsong does not sing hymns was totally wrong. Just click on the Youtubes and you will see.

Matter of fact SOMEONE whether it be Mark or that Pastor very plainy said the Hillsong STYLE is NO GOSPEL.

I am just pointing out the error of these statements with visual proof. Now if this UPC Pastor wants to get rid of slow songs about the blood of Jesus thats entirely up to him and the people that attend there.

Just dont try to bring Hillsong down to that level because it is not true.

[Cindy]

Who or what is Hillsong?

[Aquila]

~ ~ Continued ~ ~


This Pastor went on to say that they were not allowed to perform the following:


1. From now on he only wanted "hill song" style. No gospel

2. They could not sing anymore slow songs for the worship service. only upbeat.


3. Absolutley NO More Hymns could be sung.


I'm not making this up. we came to the conclusion he probably went to one of those mega church growth seminars and came home and decided he would impliment their ways of doing things.

Needless to say, he has a lot of upset leaders as a result. I think some pastors are blaming the wrong things for the reasons for not growing


what says you??/

By and large the church has become a business focused on maintaining assets and salaries for the men involved.

Also we're living in very wicked times.

Matthew 24:12
And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

People are bombarded by so much sin in today's world their vision has become too clouded to see clearly and they're growing cold.

[Rico]

I recently talked to a leader in another church who was upset over the pastor's decision. The pastor met with the Min. of Music , musicians and praise singers and told them there would be No more songs about the Blood!

His reasoning was that it scares today's visitors who have no church background.


What do you think about this ? I think this would upset me too

What are they going to do next, rip the pages out of the Bible that talk about Jesus' blood?

[Monkeyman]

It is absurd to say Hillsong has nothing to do with the Cross. I prefer their music to almost anything I have heard in an Apostolic Church.

No cross? Take the challenge of listening to this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eiy3_KRKNaQ

Someone is passing along lies it would seem if they say Hillsong does not sing about the cross.Thank you, thank you, and thank you. These threads really tire me out and I am through with them. It is retarded to think that the UPC and apostolics have a stranglehold on anointed music. That the pentecostal hymnbook is the ONLY way. Is that guy an idiot to ask for no Blood songs? Yes!!! Does that mean Hillsong and modern music can't be anointed, NOOOOOOO!!! I really get tired of some of you and these stoopid statements.
This morning we had an ole' fashioned pentecostal breakthrough and again the Spirit took over and it was wonderful....the song that was playing while it blew open???? Matt Redman's "Blessed Be Your Name" some folks took the lyric to heart, just like Job...You give and take away, my heart will choose to say, blessed be Your Name:bliss:bliss

:boxing:boxing:boxing

[Brother Price]

I recently talked to a leader in another church who was upset over the pastor's decision. The pastor met with the Min. of Music , musicians and praise singers and told them there would be No more songs about the Blood!

His reasoning was that it scares today's visitors who have no church background.


What do you think about this ? I think this would upset me too
Give me a song, drenched in the Blood of Jesus, sung by hearts appreciative for salvation, who have been bought by the Blood and are not ashamed of it, and I'll show you a breeding ground for salvation and the miraculous!

This pastor's heart is in number filling the seat. How shall he stand before Christ with all that blood on his hands?

[Monkeyman]

[QUOTE=StMark;479198]

*THREAD HIJACK ALERT*

Back in the late 70's when Andre Crouch was at the peak of his success he gave a concert one afternoon at Mississippi College in JAX, MS when I was at JCM.

A bunch of us JCMers went to the concert and some got to talking to him afterwards and mentioned JCM, FPC & Lanny Wolfe.

Of course he knew LW so when he found out LW was at FPC holding choir practice with the FPC choir Andre decidd to drop by and surprise him.

I drove to the church and it was so cool when Andre Crouch walked in that fellowship hall door. He ended up singing some for the choir and seemed to have a realy good time.

It was a choir practice where the choir got blessed hearing someone else sing.

I love good ole jammin Black Gospel and around this period, 1977-1979 the JCM choir did a lot of Walter, Edwin, & Tramaine Hawkins songs along with Andre Crouch ,etc.

It is hard to believe that was 30 years ago! BTW Andre Crouch was at Dottie Rambo's funeral at CC.LOL, to add to your hijack...the first time I met him was to hear him say to me in a quiet, gravely voice, "Ooooh, you're Hispanic...I just looooove chorizo", yea, ummm, I kinda moved along, know what I'm saying???

[Rico]

As a rule such songs and messages do not move people the way they used to. I travel extensively and am amazed at the seeming calloused disinterest in such topics when they are preached. I am not saying there is never a response. Just a general malaise that seems to be slipping in upon the church at large.

The cross should always convict. But let us not forget that at the actual Calvary the majority of folks mocked, ridiculed and gambled while the blood flowed. Only a few were actually moved.


Brother, the reason for this is because people have become desensitized to the visual realities involved in someone dying a horrible death. We can thank Hollywood for this desensitization by making so many movies that depict people getting murdered or dying violent deaths. Seeing someone die on a screen has become so commonplace that picturing the death of Jesus on a cross doesn't have the same power it once had. Also, because there is a growing backlash against seeing so much violence, there is a movement afoot to sanitize the things we see.

Unfortunately, on both fronts, the Church finds itself caught in the battle. Picturing Jesus dying on a cross in our minds doesn't have as much power as it once did, and the push to curb violent images has resulted in the blood being removed from the equation in church services.

[Brother Price]

Rico, you said a mouthful here...

We were bought in violence, ransomed, and then released in peace. The Blood was shed violently, and the pain was agonizing. He did so much, and our generation now has become the desensitized so-what generation.

Lord, bring us to the point of use as a tool of conviction to those, that they may see You!

[Rico]

IMO, it has been the combination of many things. World tragedies more abundant, the onslaught of technology, the eroding of decency standards in Hollywood, declining morals in America, the rising crime rate, etc. Sadly, as goes the world, so goes the church in too many cases.

As I stated, the desinsitization has now led to indifference. It used to be that folks would eventually respond although they had initially overrode conviction. I think we are seeing less and less of that.

My personal opinion, and some would strongly disagree, is that we need an incredible, undenyable move of the Holy Ghost coupled with a stronger pulpit than we have had in quite a while. (Notice I said stronger pulpit, not stronger personalities or abuse of the pulpit.)

One benefit I can see to all this "get the blood out" nonsense is a shift towards focusing on God's love as the drawing factor. I don't agree that the blood should be subtracted from the equation, but I do find the love of God to have a more lasting impact on people and much more powerful force for sinner's to resist.

[Rico]

There is actually a modern song that does not have a catchy melody but the words are so powerful that it just grips me every time we sing it. It is "In Christ Alone".

I posted the lyrics one time either here or back on NFCF and I think everybody from ultra con to lib agreed they were powerful.

Very powerful song. It's a shame the fella who made it popular fell into sin, but I have heard he's made a comeback.

[Rico]

It is absurd to say Hillsong has nothing to do with the Cross. I prefer their music to almost anything I have heard in an Apostolic Church.

No cross? Take the challenge of listening to this song.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eiy3_KRKNaQ

Someone is passing along lies it would seem if they say Hillsong does not sing about the cross.

I love that song.

[stmatthew]

I will use this as an example. If someone said for instance "We dont want the David Bernard STYLE of preaching." Then the next thing said would be they did not want any preaching about the blood of Christ. It would be clear they were connecting the two together. DB and not preaching the blood. Same thing was done to Hillsong.

Mark went on on say:




If by gospel we mean that Christ died for our sins and rose again if it were Mark or whoever said this was totally wrong. Whoever it was that insinuates Hillsong does not do slow songs was totally wrong. Whoever it was that surmises that Hillsong does not sing hymns was totally wrong. Just click on the Youtubes and you will see.

Matter of fact SOMEONE whether it be Mark or that Pastor very plainy said the Hillsong STYLE is NO GOSPEL.

I am just pointing out the error of these statements with visual proof. Now if this UPC Pastor wants to get rid of slow songs about the blood of Jesus thats entirely up to him and the people that attend there.

Just dont try to bring Hillsong down to that level because it is not true.

Bro,

When it was said that the Pastor only wanted Hillsong stye, music, and no gospel, he was saying that he did not want "black" style music played. Black style music is called Gospel. It had nothing to do with Hillsong not having songs about the blood. It just means they will only sing Hillsong type songs that do not have the blood in them.

[Rico]

Bro,

When it was said that the Pastor only wanted Hillsong stye, music, and no gospel, he was saying that he did not want "black" style music played. Black style music is called Gospel. It had nothing to do with Hillsong not having songs about the blood. It just means they will only sing Hillsong type songs that do not have the blood in them.

St Matt, do you believe the style of music actually makes a difference in the truth contained in any song?

[StMark]

Thank you, thank you, and thank you. These threads really tire me out and I am through with them. It is retarded to think that the UPC and apostolics have a stranglehold on anointed music. That the pentecostal hymnbook is the ONLY way. Is that guy an idiot to ask for no Blood songs? Yes!!! Does that mean Hillsong and modern music can't be anointed, NOOOOOOO!!! I really get tired of some of you and these stoopid statements.
This morning we had an ole' fashioned pentecostal breakthrough and again the Spirit took over and it was wonderful....the song that was playing while it blew open???? Matt Redman's "Blessed Be Your Name" some folks took the lyric to heart, just like Job...You give and take away, my heart will choose to say, blessed be Your Name:bliss:bliss

:boxing:boxing:boxing


Monkey Man!!!! you're not paying close attention sir!

I said that the pastor only wants hill song STYLE STYLE...got it?? STYLE

no particular artist was named that I know of.


many of the hillsongs are great.

[StMark]

Bro,

When it was said that the Pastor only wanted Hillsong stye, music, and no gospel, he was saying that he did not want "black" style music played. Black style music is called Gospel. It had nothing to do with Hillsong not having songs about the blood. It just means they will only sing Hillsong type songs that do not have the blood in them.

Exactly Matt

[George]

If by gospel we mean that Christ died for our sins and rose again if it were Mark or whoever said this was totally wrong. Whoever it was that insinuates Hillsong does not do slow songs was totally wrong. Whoever it was that surmises that Hillsong does not sing hymns was totally wrong. Just click on the Youtubes and you will see.

Matter of fact SOMEONE whether it be Mark or that Pastor very plainy said the Hillsong STYLE is NO GOSPEL.

I am just pointing out the error of these statements with visual proof. Now if this UPC Pastor wants to get rid of slow songs about the blood of Jesus thats entirely up to him and the people that attend there.

Just dont try to bring Hillsong down to that level because it is not true.



Dude, don't have a coronary! In fact your "visual proof" determines you are wrong. NO ONE ACCUSED HILLSONG OF NOT SINGING ABOUT THE CROSS OR THE BLOOD!!! NO ONE SAID THEY DIDN'T LIKE HILLSONG OR TALKED ANYTHING BAD ABOUT THEM!!! In fact the pastor that doesn't want to sing about the blood wanted songs in the "style" of Hillsong. BUT ONLY IN THE FAST STYLE OF HILLSONG!!!

Now about the "No Gospel." The post did not say, "Hillsong IS no gospel." It said, "in the style of Hillsong. No Gospel." Did you see the "period" after the word "Hillsong?" "No Gospel" was a separate sentence meaning an entirely different style of music that pastor no longer wanted. Apparently you don't understand music terms. "Gospel" is the term used for what used to be called "black" music.

I'm not trying to be mean and please accept my comments kindly, but before you accuse someone of lying and degrading an artist you love, comprehend what you are reading because no one lied and no one degraded Hillsong.

[StMark]

Dude, don't have a coronary! In fact your "visual proof" determines you are wrong. NO ONE ACCUSED HILLSONG OF NOT SINGING ABOUT THE CROSS OR THE BLOOD!!! NO ONE SAID THEY DIDN'T LIKE HILLSONG OR TALKED ANYTHING BAD ABOUT THEM!!! In fact the pastor that doesn't want to sing about the blood wanted songs in the "style" of Hillsong. BUT ONLY IN THE FAST STYLE OF HILLSONG!!!

Now about the "No Gospel." The post did not say, "Hillsong IS no gospel." It said, "in the style of Hillsong. No Gospel." Did you see the "period" after the word "Hillsong?" "No Gospel" was a separate sentence meaning an entirely different style of music that pastor no longer wanted. Apparently you don't understand music terms. "Gospel" is the term used for what used to be called "black" music.

I'm not trying to be mean and please accept my comments kindly, but before you accuse someone of lying and degrading an artist you love, comprehend what you are reading because no one lied and no one degraded Hillsong.

HELLO!!! You are exactly right George!

Give it a break people!!! some of you are really showing your ignorance today- sorry but true!!!!

.

[TRFrance]

I love some of those old "blood" songs:

----
It reaches to the highest mountain
And it flows to the lowest valley
The blood, that give me strength
From day to day
It will never lose its power!
----
There is power, power, wonder working power
In the blood of the Lamb
There is power, power, wonder working power
In the precious blood of the Lamb

Would you be free from your burden of sin?
There is power in the blood, power in the blood
Would you o'er evil a victory win?
There's wonder working power in the blood!
---

[StMark]

I love some of those old "blood" songs:

----
It reaches to the highest mountain
And it flows to the lowest valley
The blood, that give me strength
From day to day
It will never lose its power!
----
There is power, power, wonder working power
In the blood of the Lamb
There is power, power, wonder working power
In the precious blood of the Lamb

Would you be free from your burden of sin?
There is power in the blood, power in the blood
Would you o'er evil a victory win?
There's wonder working power in the blood!
---

And still relevant for our time! The old and new can be blended together!

[George]

And still relevant for our time! The old and new can be blended together!

Really, blending old and new is the best way because it pleases all ages in the congregation.

[StMark]

Really, blending old and new is the best way because it pleases all ages in the congregation.


Absolutley! and something I always try to bear and mind and strive for when putting songs together for worship.
UNLESS you serve a young unchurched only congregation? You have to know your demographics

[Sam]

I love some of those old "blood" songs:

----
It reaches to the highest mountain
And it flows to the lowest valley
The blood, that give me strength
From day to day
It will never lose its power!
----
There is power, power, wonder working power
In the blood of the Lamb
There is power, power, wonder working power
In the precious blood of the Lamb

Would you be free from your burden of sin?
There is power in the blood, power in the blood
Would you o'er evil a victory win?
There's wonder working power in the blood!
---

A slaughterhouse religion!!!

A gospel of Gore!!!!

Blood, guts, and violence!!!!

[stmatthew]

St Matt, do you believe the style of music actually makes a difference in the truth contained in any song?

I think that the style can become a stumbling block to the message contained in the music. I think there are some styles (some Christian Rock) that are full of spirits that are not God, and can produce something in the hearer other than a heart to worship our Saviour.

[Rico]

A gospel of Gore!!!!



He may have invented the internet and global warming, but Al Gore had nothing to with what we are talking about! :D

[Rico]

I think that the style can become a stumbling block to the message contained in the music. I think there are some styles (some Christian Rock) that are full of spirits that are not God, and can produce something in the hearer other than a heart to worship our Saviour.

I believed that pre-conceived notions play the biggest role in people's decisions on what is and what isn't anointed.


Case in point: I play the guitar. I could play a song in church and have people come up to me and tell me how they love that song because it's anointed, etc., etc. I could play the same exact song, but click the distortion button on my amp, and the same people would complain that it was a devilish and carnal song.

[TRFrance]

I think that the style can become a stumbling block to the message contained in the music. I think there are some styles (some Christian Rock) that are full of spirits that are not God, and can produce something in the hearer other than a heart to worship our Saviour.

St Matt...how can a style of music contain spirits?
Please explain that to me.

Keep in mind that other styles of music have been condemned in the past as "the devil's music", only to become accepted over time in Christian circles.

For example , Jazz was preached against as the devil's music in the early 1900's. Now there's Christian Jazz, and hardly anyone blinks an eye at that. It's now widely accepted as simply another musical form, once that can be used to glorify God.

There's Christian salsa, Christian reggae, Christian soca, Christian rock, and other musical styles that have been used to glorify God across a variety of cultures.

What scripture would one use to say that certain musical styles are inherently ungodly?

[Michael Phelps]

St Matt...how can a style of music contain spirits?
Please explain that to me.

Keep in mind that other styles of music have been condemned in the past as "the devil's music", only to become accepted over time in Christian circles.

For example , Jazz was preached against as the devil's music in the early 1900's. Now there's Christian Jazz, and hardly anyone blinks an eye at that. It's now widely accepted as simply another musical form, once that can be used to glorify God.

There's Christian salsa, Christian reggae, Christian salsa, Christian rock, and other musical styles that have been used to glorify God across a variety of cultures.

What scripture would one use to say that certain musical styles are inherently ungodly?

Excellent question, TR. I've often wondered this, and when I was younger and asked, the only response I got was "it's the beat".

Well, there was little difference in the "beat" of most secular songs and the "beat" in our style of Pentecostal worship. So, I was a tad confused.

And, my confusion was exacerbated when I heard guys like Steve TImmons do his seminars on rock and roll, and the entire content of his message had to with the lyrics. And the back masking..........

[StMark]

A slaughterhouse religion!!!

A gospel of Gore!!!!

Blood, guts, and violence!!!!


This reminded me of a church I visited a few years about in North San francisco. The woman that did the opening Prayer said " DEAR PARENT" !!!
I was like WHAAAAAAT!!!!! So I asked someone later about it and they told me that they didn't believe in a "Sexist God"


.

[Sam]

St Matt...how can a style of music contain spirits?
Please explain that to me.

Keep in mind that other styles of music have been condemned in the past as "the devil's music", only to become accepted over time in Christian circles.

For example , Jazz was preached against as the devil's music in the early 1900's. Now there's Christian Jazz, and hardly anyone blinks an eye at that. It's now widely accepted as simply another musical form, once that can be used to glorify God.

There's Christian salsa, Christian reggae, Christian salsa, Christian rock, and other musical styles that have been used to glorify God across a variety of cultures.

What scripture would one use to say that certain musical styles are inherently ungodly?


I've even heard Christian Rap. It's not my favorite but could be used by God to reach and to encourage some.

P.S. What is the abbreviation for Christian Rap?
Would it be C-Rap?

[Rico]

St Matt...how can a style of music contain spirits?
Please explain that to me.

Keep in mind that other styles of music have been condemned in the past as "the devil's music", only to become accepted over time in Christian circles.

For example , Jazz was preached against as the devil's music in the early 1900's. Now there's Christian Jazz, and hardly anyone blinks an eye at that. It's now widely accepted as simply another musical form, once that can be used to glorify God.

There's Christian salsa, Christian reggae, Christian salsa, Christian rock, and other musical styles that have been used to glorify God across a variety of cultures.

What scripture would one use to say that certain musical styles are inherently ungodly?

Ya done hit the nail right on the head. Walk into a Puerto Rican apostolic church and you are going to hear songs sung with a Puerto Rican beat. It sure ain't gonna be countryfied, gospelized, rockified, or any of that. The music will be Ricanized (which, by the way, can sometimes sound very tribalish).

[CC1]

This reminded me of a church I visited a few years about in North San francisco. The woman that did the opening Prayer said " DEAR PARENT" !!!
I was like WHAAAAAAT!!!!! So I asked someone later about it and they told me that they didn't believe in a "Sexist God"


.

A few years ago while they were in Los Angeles my wife and daughter were invited to go to church with a friend there.

They went and at first it seemed like a typical charismatic type service as a praise and worship song started.

However every place in the song about the Lord where you would say "he" the female song leader and the congregation would sing "She".

My wife and daughter were shocked and couldnt' wait to get out of there.

[Hoovie]

A few years ago while they were in Los Angeles my wife and daughter were invited to go to church with a friend there.

They went and at first it seemed like a typical charismatic type service as a praise and worship song started.

However every place in the song about the Lord where you would say "he" the female song leader and the congregation would sing "She".

My wife and daughter were shocked and couldnt' wait to get out of there.

So there are idiots in this world... even in California! :toofunny:toofunny

[Aquila]

Hey...weren't all those "blood" songs written by Trinitarians?

[ForeverBlessed]

Hey...weren't all those "blood" songs written by Trinitarians?

not "I see a crimson stream of blood"

[rgcraig]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1YPUx3oNZs

Love this song!

[jaxfam6]

If it wasn't for the blood of Jesus where would we be??


Thank God for the blood.

[stmatthew]

I think that the style can become a stumbling block to the message contained in the music. I think there are some styles (some Christian Rock) that are full of spirits that are not God, and can produce something in the hearer other than a heart to worship our Saviour.

St Matt...how can a style of music contain spirits?
Please explain that to me.

Keep in mind that other styles of music have been condemned in the past as "the devil's music", only to become accepted over time in Christian circles.

For example , Jazz was preached against as the devil's music in the early 1900's. Now there's Christian Jazz, and hardly anyone blinks an eye at that. It's now widely accepted as simply another musical form, once that can be used to glorify God.

There's Christian salsa, Christian reggae, Christian soca, Christian rock, and other musical styles that have been used to glorify God across a variety of cultures.

What scripture would one use to say that certain musical styles are inherently ungodly?

I did not say every Christian Rock song had a spirit in it. But I have been where some was playing, and I could literally feel demonic spirits in the music.

I do not judge music by its style. For me, its not the beat, as I am pretty versatile in my music selections. But when you have music on, and you feel demonic, oppressive spirits in the music, I am not going to continue to listen.

[Kings Kid]

I love the old hymns that talk about the blood of jesus. It is sad that this pastor wants to do away with these songs and put in the hillsong type songs. Even though I like some of the hillsong stuff I sometimes question the intent of some of the songs. are they really songs that a congregation can worship to or are they being used entain the congregation.

[Maximilia]

Hebrews 10 New Living Translation

29 Just think how much worse the punishment will be for those who have trampled on the Son of God, and have treated the blood of the covenant, which made us holy, as if it were common and unholy, and have insulted and disdained the Holy Spirit who brings God's mercy to us.
30 For we know the one who said,
"I will take revenge.
I will pay them back."*
He also said,
"The LORD will judge his own people."*

31 It is a terrible thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

This above reference really jumped out at me today, especially the way the New Living Translation translates it. Laying aside all preferences of styles of music, seeker friendliness (it's a good thing for the most part) the problem is when we start tampering with our fundamentals--scary!!!

[Brother Price]

This forum needs to be the bloodiest forum around! Thank God for the Blood of Jesus!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-4JcZylU3c