Uncut Hair!Houston chronicle interview w/KenGurley

[StMark]

~ ~ ~ WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS! ~ ~ ~


This article was in the Houston Chronicle Yesterday about uncut hair in Pentecost!!!

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/5810175.html


Here's an exerp from the article......


Not all Pentecostals keep their hair long, said the Rev. Ken Gurley, senior pastor of First Church Pearland, the church Skillern attends. Even in his congregation there are women — and men — with many different hairstyles.
The teaching about hair comes from 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 in the New Testament, the pastor said. And the practice of not cutting hair and modest dress is encouraged, he said. Men are encouraged to keep their hair short, based on the same Bible passage.
"We don't see this as the single greatest proof that a woman has a walk with God," Gurley said. "We just feel like it is being faithful to our holiness heritage, and in a world where so much has changed, and not necessarily for the better, it shows our reverence to God."

[rgcraig]

Perfect example of the copyright laws - - - way to go St. Mark!

Kudos to you!

What I think about the article - that's the way it should be worded - encouraged.

[StMark]

PRACTICING MODESTY

A lock on expressing faith

For many of the devout, hairstyles are about reverence, not fashion


By TARA DOOLEY
Copyright 2008 Houston Chronicle



RESOURCES
Locks of Faith
In her 51 years, Jean Skillern has never allowed scissors to pass through her hair. Not even for a trim.

Most of the time she wears it in a bun or braided. But when she lets it down, about 7 inches of hair rests on the floor.

The decision to have long hair has nothing to do with fashion. For Skillern, it is about her Pentecostal faith and the belief that long hair is a distinguishing mark of femininity that women wear as a veil out of reverence to God.

"I've always felt, 'Why cut off a little bit of the glory or why cut a little bit of my covering when the Lord gave it to me?' " Skillern said.

For complete article:

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/life/religion/5810175.html

[Cindy]

~ ~ ~ WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT THIS! ~ ~ ~


This article was in the Houston Chronicle Yesterday about uncut hair in Pentecost!!!

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/...n/5810175.html


Here's an exerp from the article......


Not all Pentecostals keep their hair long, said the Rev. Ken Gurley, senior pastor of First Church Pearland, the church Skillern attends. Even in his congregation there are women — and men — with many different hairstyles.
The teaching about hair comes from 1 Corinthians 11:2-16 in the New Testament, the pastor said. And the practice of not cutting hair and modest dress is encouraged, he said. Men are encouraged to keep their hair short, based on the same Bible passage.
"We don't see this as the single greatest proof that a woman has a walk with God," Gurley said. "We just feel like it is being faithful to our holiness heritage, and in a world where so much has changed, and not necessarily for the better, it shows our reverence to God."

Sounds right to me. And I didn't read the whole article, just the excerpt.

[SDG]

"We don't see this as the single greatest proof that a woman has a walk with God," Gurley said. "We just feel like it is being faithful to our holiness heritage, and in a world where so much has changed, and not necessarily for the better, it shows our reverence to God."

In other words ... a District Secretary admits its TRADITION.

[StMark]

Perfect example of the copyright laws - - - way to go St. Mark!

Kudos to you!

What I think about the article - that's the way it should be worded - encouraged.



Oops I totally forgot your new rule! let me fix it

[SDG]

Are they cutting hair at the Gurley church?

From the article:
Not all Pentecostals keep their hair long, said the Rev. Ken Gurley, senior pastor of First Church Pearland, the church Skillern attends. Even in his congregation there are women — and men — with many different hairstyles.

[rgcraig]

Opps - - St. Mark your second article is a BAD example of the copyright laws.

[StMark]

renda, I deleted the post that had the complete article. I hope that makes you and team happy

[rgcraig]

Oops I totally forgot your new rule! let me fix it

Just like a kid - you brag on them and they mess up!

[The Mrs]

Good article!

Here ya go PO! Concerning the mom of the girl who's hair was cut by her teacher...

Her mother, Sara Garcia, cut her hair in her 20s — an act of rebellion that occurred after she was married, Garcia said.

[SDG]

The author lumped Pentecostal Christians w/ FLDS members, Sikhs, Buddhists and and Hadic males.

[rgcraig]

renda, I deleted the post that had the complete article. I hope that makes you and team happy

It should make you happy as it's a vBulletin rule and if we don't abide they will shut us down.

[The Mrs]

It should make you happy as it's a vBulletin rule and if we don't abide they will shut us down.

As well as lose our google ads. :girlytantrum

[Cindy]

[/SIZE]

In other words ... a District Secretary admits its TRADITION.

Admits? Like it was a secret. So who cares? If you don't want to do it go somewhere else, people make choices every day.

[StMark]

Just like a kid - you brag on them and they mess up!



O boy! have you all noticed that someone is not getting enough rest???

[StMark]

As well as lose our google ads. :girlytantrum


i fixed it goodness!

[SDG]

So.

At least it's an honest answer ... I think the org and many other tradition holders are coming to this reality ... there is no bible prohibition ... and so just say what it is ...

One can have traditions ... nothing wrong w/ them ... just call a spade a spade.

[rgcraig]

renda, I deleted the post that had the complete article. I hope that makes you and team happy

I attached the link and deleted 70% of it.

[StMark]

The author lumped Pentecostal Christians w/ FDLS members, Sikhs, Buddhists and and Hadic males.



I was going to point that out.

Is that embarrassing to any of you Pentecostal ladies to be compared to FLDS ??

[SDG]

Mark,

PPH might want to contact the author of this book.

Women are told that hair is their crowning glory according to the Bible, and they are not allowed to cut it, not even their bangs," said Irene Spencer, once part of another fundamentalist sect and author of Shattered Dreams: My Life as a Polygamist's Wife.

[Cindy]

The author lumped Pentecostal Christians w/ FDLS members, Sikhs, Buddhists and and Hadic males.

I didn't read it that way. But I fully expected you to.

[SDG]

Are they cutting hair at the Gurley church?

From the article:
Not all Pentecostals keep their hair long, said the Rev. Ken Gurley, senior pastor of First Church Pearland, the church Skillern attends. Even in his congregation there are women — and men — with many different hairstyles


BUMP.

[SDG]

I didn't read it that way. But I fully expected you to.

How did I read it ???... the author included these groups as holding similar views and simply stated it ...

[Steve Epley]

If the quote is correct it is pitiful.

[Cindy]

I was going to point that out.

Is that embarrassing to any of you Pentecostal ladies to be compared to FLDS ??

Nope not this one. I am me and very unique whatever my hair style. Besides I don't have enough hair to do that anyway.

[SDG]

If the quote is correct it is pitiful.

Why? Brother Gurley is the District Secretary of the Southern Texas District. He's knowledgable in the Word.

[Nahum]

The author lumped Pentecostal Christians w/ FLDS members, Sikhs, Buddhists and and Hadic males.

I noticed that.

Scary.

And btw, I have no problem keeping my hair short.

[StMark]

BUMP.


Is the church conservative ????? I recall hearing that it was???


Is Gordon Poe still based out of First UPC Pearland ????

[Nahum]

Mark,

PPH might want to contact the author of this book.

Why?

Our own books are much, much worse.

[StMark]

Mark,

PPH might want to contact the author of this book.



you're being cruel dan

[Cindy]

How did I read it ???... the author included these groups as holding similar views and simply stated it ...

Yes he/she did, so what? I have been called a lot of names in my life, I am an adult doesn't really bother me anymore. My only guideline is Jesus.

[StMark]

If the quote is correct it is pitiful.



why is that ???? did he not uphold the teaching of it ?

[StMark]

Why?

Our own books are much, much worse.


Don't get yourself in trouble now

[SDG]

'Why cut off a little bit of the glory or why cut a little bit of my covering when the Lord gave it to me?' " Skillern said.



The Glory ????... I hope she's not implying that it's the Glory of God ...

Many Pentecostal women have come away w/ this false doctrine.

[Nahum]

I honestly think articles, and scrutiny, like this are the reason why many opposed television ads and programs so vociferously. They are afraid of the spotlight.

I totally believe in our traditional stance regarding hair and I would have no problem explaining it a clear, but unoffensive, way.

I am troubled by the comparisons to the FLDS and others.

[StMark]

Admits? Like it was a secret. So who cares? If you don't want to do it go somewhere else, people make choices every day.


cneasttx,


I think the point is, the UPC teaches that a woman will be lost if she cuts her hair. in other words it's a sin, not just a tradition,so to hear a pastor imply that may need to be clarified.


on the other hand, news papers have been known to twist words especially when it comes to religion

[SDG]

cneasttx,


I think the point is, the UPC teaches that a woman will be lost if she cuts her hair. in other words it's a sin, not just a tradition,so to hear a pastor imply that may need to be clarified.


on the other hand, news papers have been known to twist words especially when it comes to religion

Brother Gurley I don't believe categorically called it sin ... although he did say its shows reverence to our God.

[HeavenlyOne]

Yet another thread that proves what I have always said...

Men are more obsessed about women's standards than the women are!!!!

Why is that??

[StMark]

The Glory ????... I hope she's not implying that it's the Glory of God ...

Many Pentecostal women have come away w/ this false doctrine.


There was once a girl in an Apostolic Assembly church who was dancing and shouting when suddenly her veil fell off her head and onto the floor.

she didn't realize that she was stepping and trampling on her veil that had fell on the floor.

she was later rebuked for " stepping on her Glory" !

[StMark]

Yet another thread that proves what I have always said...

Men are more obsessed about women's standards than the women are!!!!

Why is that??

You should feel special

[StMark]

Brother Gurley I don't believe categorically called it sin ... although he did say its shows reverence to our God.



He didn't call it a sin in the article Dan, but that is indeed what is taught in the UPC you know that, right?

[Pressing-On]

Perfect example of the copyright laws - - - way to go St. Mark!

Kudos to you!

What I think about the article - that's the way it should be worded - encouraged.
I agree. The wording was great!

[Cindy]

cneasttx,


I think the point is, the UPC teaches that a woman will be lost if she cuts her hair. in other words it's a sin, not just a tradition,so to hear a pastor imply that may need to be clarified.


on the other hand, news papers have been known to twist words especially when it comes to religion

Do you think every woman in heaven will have long hair? I think God is more concerned about what I have in my heart than what I have or don't have on my head. Short or long the reason behind any of it is what is important to God. If long hair comes from a prideful spirit it is just as wrong as cutting comes from a rebellious spirit. That is the point of it, long or short in itself is not a sin.

[StMark]

Do you think every woman in heaven will have long hair? I think God is more concerned about what I have in my heart than what I have or don't have on my head. Short or long the reason behind any of it is what is important to God. If long hair comes from a prideful spirit it is just as wrong as cutting comes from a rebellious spirit. That is the point of it, long or short in itself is not a sin.


NO need to get the blood pressure up cneasttx. I was just pointing out the truth and nothing but the truth, and that is what our churches have always taught

[Steve Epley]

There will be NO BOBBED hair women in the Bride. I read that in article out of Texas decades ago.

[HeavenlyOne]

You should feel special

Darn right, I do!

Can I say darn?

[SDG]

There will be NO BOBBED hair women in the Bride. I read that in article out of Texas decades ago.

But arent men in the Bride too?

[Pressing-On]

NO need to get the blood pressure up cneasttx. I was just pointing out the truth and nothing but the truth, and that is what our churches have always taught

Right.

[SDG]

Mark do you believe that a woman cutting her hair is a sin against God?

[Steve Epley]

But arent men in the Bride too?

Yep and their hair will be bobbed!:bliss

[SDG]

Yep and their hair will be bobbed!:bliss

Then there is bobbed hair in the Bride.

[The Mrs]

Then there is bobbed hair in the Bride.

:toofunny :toofunny :toofunny

[Steve Epley]

There will be NO BOBBED hair women in the Bride. I read that in article out of Texas decades ago.

WOMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dan that was the quote.:happydance

[StMark]

Mark do you believe that a woman cutting her hair is a sin against God?


If a shame is a sin then yes

[SDG]

If a shame is a sin then yes

So cutting her hair is shameful? Where did you read that?

Are other forms of shame also sin?

If it is not a shame to cut it ... then you agree it's not a sin?

[Steve Epley]

If a shame is a sin then yes

It certainly is it means filthy-vile-disgusting. Same defintion as an abomination.

[StMark]

So cutting her hair is shameful? Where did you read that?

Are other forms of shame also sin?

If it is not a shame to cut it ... then you agree it's not a sin?


The bible says that it's a shame unto God ....

[Pressing-On]

If a shame is a sin then yes

Anthony Mangun's father told him that even if he didn't quite understand the passage he knew he didn't want to be part of something that was a shame. I can agree with that.

[SDG]

It certainly is it means filthy-vile-disgusting. Same defintion as an abomination.

All I can do is chuckle. Isn't all sin filthy, vile and disgusting, Elder? God color codes sins?

[SDG]

The bible says that it's a shame unto God ....

Where Mark?

[StMark]

It's also due to an unconscience hatred and rebellion against men

[Pressing-On]

So cutting her hair is shameful? Where did you read that?

Are other forms of shame also sin?

If it is not a shame to cut it ... then you agree it's not a sin?

You sound like Mark Lowry. He said, "It says it is a shame not a sin."

Whatever! :toofunny

[Cindy]

How did I read it ???... the author included these groups as holding similar views and simply stated it ...

You are kind of predictable on some subjects Daniel. I just wonder why so many MEN care about what women wear or don't wear, or about they're hair.

[Steve Epley]

All I can do is chuckle. Isn't all sin filthy, vile and disgusting, Elder? God color codes sins?

Didn't Jesus say something about the greater sin?

[StMark]

Where Mark?


in first Cor chapt 11

[SDG]

You are kind of predictable on some subjects Daniel. I just wonder why so many MEN care about what women wear or don't wear, or about they're hair.

I've stated my theory on this a few weeks ago ... deals a lot w/ sexism.

But most did not pay attention to the rantings of a compromiser.

[HeavenlyOne]

If a shame is a sin then yes

Did you know that the Bible says that a man having long hair is a shame, but Paul says IF it be a shame for a woman to have her head shorn or shaven, she should be covered?

Doesn't say IF for a man, but does for a woman. Hmmmm.....

In addition, if shame is a sin, then it's sinful for women to speak in the church.

1Co 14:35
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Oops........

[SDG]

in first Cor chapt 11

Specific verse that says a woman cutting her hair is shameful.

Mark .... chapter and verse.

[HeavenlyOne]

The bible says that it's a shame unto God ....

Got scripture?

:D

[StMark]

Did you know that the Bible says that a man having long hair is a shame, but Paul says IF it be a shame for a woman to have her head shorn or shaven, she should be covered?

Doesn't say IF for a man, but does for a woman. Hmmmm.....

In addition, if shame is a sin, then it's sinful for women to speak in the church.

1Co 14:35
And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

Oops........


I don't believe it's right for a man to have long hair either HO.

I believe it attracts demonic spirits

[Cindy]

NO need to get the blood pressure up cneasttx. I was just pointing out the truth and nothing but the truth, and that is what our churches have always taught

My BP is fine thanks.

[SDG]

Got scripture?

:D

Of course he doesn't ... but preach it from the pulpit ... and watch the reaction from the listeners ...

You'd think you were at a soccer match.

[SDG]

I don't believe it's right for a man to have long hair either HO.

I believe it attracts demonic spirits

Attracts demonic spirits when it's worn by men but not women?

Any bible for that?

[StMark]

Got scripture?

:D


you know the teaching on it

[Nahum]

Why can't we all just get along?

[SDG]

you know the teaching on it

No Mark ... we are not asking what the org teaching is but why you hold cutting hair as shameful ... hence, sinful.

[StMark]

Attracts demonic spirits when it's worn by men but not women?


when its worn by men, yes


in the book of revelations it talks about ... I forgot the exact scripture..been a while since I heard the teaching on it

[SDG]

when its worn by men, yes


in the book of revelations it talks about ... I forgot the exact scripture..been a while since I heard the teaching on it

This is what's wrong w/ Pentecost.

[StMark]

No Mark ... we are not asking what the org teaching is but why you hold cutting hair as shameful ... hence, sinful.


Dan, you are just trying to grill me - i know your tactics :happydance

[Cindy]

Why can't we all just get along?

We can't do that Rodney.

[SDG]

Dan, you are just trying to grill me - i know your tactics :happydance

Mark do you hold your belief because it's tradition and it would be dangerous not to ... or because you are convinced in your study of Scripture, God's Word, that it is truth.

The further removed generations get away from our heritage .... the more of them are clueless as to what they believe and why.

[The Mrs]

Dan, you are just trying to grill me - i know your tactics :happydance


Mmmm...flame broiled!!! :gaga

[HeavenlyOne]

you know the teaching on it

Yes, I do, but that's not what I asked for. ;)

[HeavenlyOne]

Mmmm...flame broiled!!! :gaga

And medium rare!!!

[SDG]

Mark do you hold your belief because it's tradition and it would be dangerous not to ... or because you are convinced in your study of Scripture, God's Word, that it is truth.

The further removed generations get away from our heritage .... the more of them are clueless as to what they believe and why.

Bump for Marquitos.

[Hoovie]

cneasttx,


I think the point is, the UPC teaches that a woman will be lost if she cuts her hair. in other words it's a sin, not just a tradition,so to hear a pastor imply that may need to be clarified.


on the other hand, news papers have been known to twist words especially when it comes to religion

Baloney.

[StMark]

Bump for Marquitos.


LEAVE ME ALONE DAN :boxing:boxing:boxing:boxing

[AbundantGrace]

Dan, you are just trying to grill me - i know your tactics :happydance

Grill you? How's that? Because he's asking for scripture, rather than reference to the UPCI Manual?

I actually heard a pastor stand before his congregation and hold the Bible in one hand and the manual in the other and tell the people, "These two books will get you to Heaven!" :blah

[AbundantGrace]

I realize that this thread really isn't concerning men with facial hair, but I'll add it anyway, because it's just as absurd as the rest of this.

Years ago, while attending Eastwood UPC in Lake Charles, LA, I heard something that really showed hypocrisy concerning hair.

The church was preparing for it's annual Easter Drama, which was huge at the time. During this brief season of the year, the men in the drama were allowed to grow beards for the performance and shave them immediately following. In a restaurant after service one night, someone from another UPC church asked why one of the guys from our church had facial hair. Of course, this individual assumed based on his hairy appearance that he must be backslidden. I'll never forget the answer that I heard with my own ears by a guy sitting at our table. He said, "Oh no, he's alright. He's just trying to look more like Jesus for the Easter Drama. He'll shave after it's over." In other words, it's OK to wear facial hair when playing Jesus, but God forbid you look like Him any other time of the year. Such man-made tradition and hypocrisy. Thank God for deliverance from such bondage.

[StMark]

I realize that this thread really isn't concerning men with facial hair, but I'll add it anyway, because it's just as absurd as the rest of this.

Years ago, while attending Eastwood UPC in Lake Charles, LA, I heard something that really showed hypocrisy concerning hair.

The church was preparing for it's annual Easter Drama, which was huge at the time. During this brief season of the year, the men in the drama were allowed to grow beards for the performance and shave them immediately following. In a restaurant after service one night, someone from another UPC church asked why one of the guys from our church had facial hair. Of course, this individual assumed based on his hairy appearance that he must be backslidden. I'll never forget the answer that I heard with my own ears by a guy sitting at our table. He said, "Oh no, he's alright. He's just trying to look more like Jesus for the Easter Drama. He'll shave after it's over." In other words, it's OK to wear facial hair when playing Jesus, but God forbid you look like Him any other time of the year. Such man-made tradition and hypocrisy. Thank God for deliverance from such bondage.

I think the UPC is slowly evolving out of this one AB.

David Bernard recently taught somewhere ( I forget where) that this is one rule we need to let go of and he's right.

Facial no longer represents a cultural rebellion against authority

[Steve Epley]

I realize that this thread really isn't concerning men with facial hair, but I'll add it anyway, because it's just as absurd as the rest of this.

Years ago, while attending Eastwood UPC in Lake Charles, LA, I heard something that really showed hypocrisy concerning hair.

The church was preparing for it's annual Easter Drama, which was huge at the time. During this brief season of the year, the men in the drama were allowed to grow beards for the performance and shave them immediately following. In a restaurant after service one night, someone from another UPC church asked why one of the guys from our church had facial hair. Of course, this individual assumed based on his hairy appearance that he must be backslidden. I'll never forget the answer that I heard with my own ears by a guy sitting at our table. He said, "Oh no, he's alright. He's just trying to look more like Jesus for the Easter Drama. He'll shave after it's over." In other words, it's OK to wear facial hair when playing Jesus, but God forbid you look like Him any other time of the year. Such man-made tradition and hypocrisy. Thank God for deliverance from such bondage.

For those of us who do not have Dramas it is not a problem.

[AbundantGrace]

For those of us who do not have Dramas it is not a problem.

HA! I love it. Great perspective!:drama

[Sam]

Attracts demonic spirits when it's worn by men but not women?

Any bible for that?

Don't need Bible.
Just ask any witch.

[AbundantGrace]

Don't need Bible.
Just ask any witch.

I don't talk to witches...

[MissBrattified]

It's also due to an unconscience hatred and rebellion against men

Huh? You think that women who cut their hair are unconsciously haters of men, and rebellious? That's their reason?

[Pressing-On]

Good article!

Here ya go PO! Concerning the mom of the girl who's hair was cut by her teacher...

Her mother, Sara Garcia, cut her hair in her 20s — an act of rebellion that occurred after she was married, Garcia said.

Not a "told-you-so" by any means, but some things you can just tell.

[Pressing-On]

Is Gordon Poe still based out of First UPC Pearland ????
Mark,
His family is based out of Ron Macy's church.

[MissBrattified]

For those of us who do not have Dramas it is not a problem.

I don't think that was the point. :D

I really have never understood the no-facial-hair-on-men thing. Take the one thing that REALLY separates men from women visually and preach against it, but then demand that women be ultra feminine from head to toe. It makes no sense.

I had someone explain to me the other day that the reason they didn't wear a beard was because when Joseph was in prison, and the king wanted to see him, he shaved off his beard as part of his preparation (to go see the king). So, the logic is that if you're going to go "see the king" you should be clean-shaven. (Calling that "logic" is going a bit far, I think....)

My thought was (which I didn't share)--that Joseph was going to see an EGYPTIAN king...LOL!!!! So even if that story COULD be used regarding facial hair, it would work out in a different direction, because being clean-shaven was an Egyptian thing--not an Israelite thing!

[AbundantGrace]

I don't think that was the point. :D

I really have never understood the no-facial-hair-on-men thing. Take the one thing that REALLY separates men from women visually and preach against it, but then demand that women be ultra feminine from head to to. It makes no sense.

I had someone explain to me the other day that the reason they didn't wear a beard was because when Joseph was in prison, and the king wanted to see him, he shaved off his beard as part of his preparation (to go see the king). So, the logic is that if you're going to go "see the king" you should be clean-shaven. (Calling that "logic" is going a bit far, I think....)

My thought was (which I didn't share)--that Joseph was going to see an EGYPTIAN king...LOL!!!! So even if that story COULD be used regarding facial hair, it would work out in a different direction, because being clean-shaven was an Egyptian thing--not an Israelite thing!

Completely absurd! However, I'm not surprised at all. I was born and raised in an ultra conservative UPC church. Remained in it for 36 years and I've heard some of the most ridiculous justifications for the man-made standards and traditions of our church. When scripture was used, it was out of context, yet more times than not we would hear, "We do it because that's what the Pastor preaches." Hebrews 13:17 would often times be used, "Obey your leaders and submit to their authority..." However, that does not mean to just blindly follow the doctrines and traditions of men.

[Newman]

I haven't read this thread but I don't think its a positive for Pentecost when the Texas Chronicle runs a story about Pentecostal hair in comparison to the polygamists.

The Texas Chronicle has been particularly negative towards the polygamists and one might assume that readers either reflect or direct the stance the paper has taken.

This polygamist drama has put a bad taste in people's mouths for blind group obedience to leader/organization-decreed dogma in the name of religion. I doubt that too many people outside of Pentecost are comfortable with uncut hair as a symbol of women's reverence to God.

I don't believe it was ever the intent of Scripture for men or women to define their relationship with God by their hair. But rather in context; it was about acting within the scope of one's culture so as not to bring dishonor to God.

Associtation with polygamists at this juncture based on hair is the opposite of what Paul had in mind. imo :cool:

[freeatlast]

I haven't read this thread but I don't think its a positive for Pentecost when the Texas Chronicle runs a story about Pentecostal hair in comparison to the polygamists.

The Texas Chronicle has been particularly negative towards the polygamists and one might assume that readers either reflect or direct the stance the paper has taken.

This polygamist drama has put a bad taste in people's mouths for blind group obedience to leader/organization-decreed dogma in the name of religion. I doubt that too many people outside of Pentecost are comfortable with uncut hair as a symbol of women's reverence to God.

I don't believe it was ever the intent of Scripture for men or women to define their relationship with God by their hair. But rather in context; it was about acting within the scope of one's culture so as not to bring dishonor to God.

Associtation with polygamists at this juncture based on hair is the opposite of what Paul had in mind. imo :cool:

Shun the very appearance of evil. Time for a hair cut ladies, and hopefully a correct understanding of 1 Cor 11...which in no way forbids a women to trim or cut some of the length of her hair.

[jrLA]

Shun the very appearance of evil. Time for a hair cut ladies, and hopefully a correct understanding of 1 Cor 11...which in no way forbids a women to trim or cut some of the length of her hair.

:blah :crazywalls:thumbsdown:doh:ignore:crazy:vomit::win aa:stop:ranting:razz:hurtyou

[comeasyouare]

Pentecostal teachers are, in my estimation, skilled at "tricky wording." The Pastor mentioned in the article doesn't come out directly and address the question of "cutting" hair (any length) but states that many different lengths of hair are apparent in his congregation. I also notice he mentions "holiness heritage." In other words, TRADITION. The Pentecostals came out of the Holiness Movement, and to this day, the Trinitarian, non believers in speaking in tongues churches, have the exact same "look" that OP's have. I have had to ask "holiness" women at times where they went to church, because I mistook them for UPC ladies.

When I saw the polygamy wives from the cult of Warren Jeffs' on TV they looked EXACTLY like the women I met back in the late 1960's in an Apostolic Church pastored by a minister my Pastor fellowshipped. From their hair-do's to their dresses to their chunky shoes! Bill O'Reilly on FOX News called them "kooky" looking women. It's all a part of "subjugating" women. It's a CULT look, and I see it as ABUSE!

It's high time, in my estimation, that church people take another look at the scripture passages, used by OP's/Apostolics to teach "standards", and examine these texts on their own two feet. What the OP's/Apostolics are teaching on "standards" was simply carried forward from the Holiness Movement into the Pentecostal Movement, but there has been new study and research on these passages since the Holiness Movement!

Go here: www.studyholiness.com

[Ron]

Pentecostal teachers are, in my estimation, skilled at "tricky wording." The Pastor mentioned in the article doesn't come out directly and address the question of "cutting" hair (any length) but states that many different lengths of hair are apparent in his congregation. I also notice he mentions "holiness heritage." In other words, TRADITION. The Pentecostals came out of the Holiness Movement, and to this day, the Trinitarian, non believers in speaking in tongues churches, have the exact same "look" that OP's have. I have had to ask "holiness" women at times where they went to church, because I mistook them for UPC ladies.

When I saw the polygamy wives from the cult of Warren Jeffs' on TV they looked EXACTLY like the women I met back in the late 1960's in an Apostolic Church pastored by a minister my Pastor fellowshipped. From their hair-do's to their dresses to their chunky shoes! Bill O'Reilly on FOX News called them "kooky" looking women. It's all a part of "subjugating" women. It's a CULT look, and I see it as ABUSE!

It's high time, in my estimation, that church people take another look at the scripture passages, used by OP's/Apostolics to teach "standards", and examine these texts on their own two feet. What the OP's/Apostolics are teaching on "standards" was simply carried forward from the Holiness Movement into the Pentecostal Movement, but there has been new study and research on these passages since the Holiness Movement!

Go here: www.studyholiness.com

Only in Holiness Churches will you find this. What are you saying that you "saw" non hioliness people that looked the same.
Ever look at a Bill Gaither Video? The womem there look like they had a terrible accident on the way to the taping with a Maybeline & Max Factor truck, as well as a truck carrying scissors.
I know up in Canada, mainstream & Charasmatic Churches are in trouble because while they may have the numbers & money & buildings--there is a shallow presence of God.
It is more about entertainment, & anything goes. You a believer? Lead the choir. You knpow how to sing? Why not do a special.
I know someone who is Apostolic & has his own Interconnect business.
One of his clients is the PAOC sister organization to AOG.
One of the Elders at their Bible college was unburdening himself saying that, by & large they haven't had a move of God in their assemblies since the seventies. He also said that the Bible College students, you know the ones who are supposed to be future Pastors & Leaders?
They go clubbing on the weekends.

There is a difference!:thumbsup:thumbsup

[navygoat1998]

Only in Holiness Churches will you find this. What are you saying that you "saw" non hioliness people that looked the same.
Ever look at a Bill Gaither Video? The womem there look like they had a terrible accident on the way to the taping with a Maybeline & Max Factor truck, as well as a truck carrying scissors.
I know up in Canada, mainstream & Charasmatic Churches are in trouble because while they may have the numbers & money & buildings--there is a shallow presence of God.
It is more about entertainment, & anything goes. You a believer? Lead the choir. You knpow how to sing? Why not do a special.
I know someone who is Apostolic & has his own Interconnect business.
One of his clients is the PAOC sister organization to AOG.
One of the Elders at their Bible college was unburdening himself saying that, by & large they haven't had a move of God in their assemblies since the seventies. He also said that the Bible College students, you know the ones who are supposed to be future Pastors & Leaders?
They go clubbing on the weekends.

There is a difference!:thumbsup:thumbsup

Ron something in my spirit has not set right about you and I could not place my finger on it. You are the holiness patrol. :foottap

[Ron]

Ron something in my spirit has not set right about you and I could not place my finger on it. You are the holiness patrol. :foottap

Hey Bro. you outa pull out the Bible & read it. I only post what is in the Bible & if I ever say, tell you that you should eat twinkies & wear blue jeans, then you would have grounds to complain.
If I post Bible principals & yiou get upset, you need to ask yourself--why?
I am just one man, if I am wrong (I don't believe I am) that is no threat to you is it?
If it is Bible, well, that is another story.
I just am puzzled at why you think I am such a threat to you, that's all.

[followingJesus]

Only in Holiness Churches will you find this. What are you saying that you "saw" non hioliness people that looked the same.
Ever look at a Bill Gaither Video? The womem there look like they had a terrible accident on the way to the taping with a Maybeline & Max Factor truck, as well as a truck carrying scissors.
I know up in Canada, mainstream & Charasmatic Churches are in trouble because while they may have the numbers & money & buildings--there is a shallow presence of God.
It is more about entertainment, & anything goes. You a believer? Lead the choir. You knpow how to sing? Why not do a special.
I know someone who is Apostolic & has his own Interconnect business.
One of his clients is the PAOC sister organization to AOG.
One of the Elders at their Bible college was unburdening himself saying that, by & large they haven't had a move of God in their assemblies since the seventies. He also said that the Bible College students, you know the ones who are supposed to be future Pastors & Leaders?
They go clubbing on the weekends.

There is a difference!:thumbsup:thumbsup

:highfive

[Barb]

Hey Bro. you outa pull out the Bible & read it. I only post what is in the Bible & if I ever say, tell you that you should eat twinkies & wear blue jeans, then you would have grounds to complain.
If I post Bible principals & yiou get upset, you need to ask yourself--why?
I am just one man, if I am wrong (I don't believe I am) that is no threat to you is it?
If it is Bible, well, that is another story.
I just am puzzled at why you think I am such a threat to you, that's all.

Did I miss something in his post?

I took it as a joke rather than a threat...

[Ron]

Did I miss something in his post?

I took it as a joke rather than a threat...

You tell me!:heeheehee

[Barb]

You tell me!:heeheehee

I'm asking...

[Barb]

I'm asking...

...and I'm waiting...

[Ron]

I'm asking...

...and I'm waiting...

I had to drop the wife off at work. What exactly are you asking and waiting for?

[Barb]

I had to drop the wife off at work. What exactly are you asking and waiting for?

Please go back and read the previous posts...

[Ron]

Please go back and read the previous posts...

I read them the first time, thanks. Do you read it differently?

[CC1]

Pentecostal teachers are, in my estimation, skilled at "tricky wording." The Pastor mentioned in the article doesn't come out directly and address the question of "cutting" hair (any length) but states that many different lengths of hair are apparent in his congregation. I also notice he mentions "holiness heritage." In other words, TRADITION. The Pentecostals came out of the Holiness Movement, and to this day, the Trinitarian, non believers in speaking in tongues churches, have the exact same "look" that OP's have. I have had to ask "holiness" women at times where they went to church, because I mistook them for UPC ladies.

When I saw the polygamy wives from the cult of Warren Jeffs' on TV they looked EXACTLY like the women I met back in the late 1960's in an Apostolic Church pastored by a minister my Pastor fellowshipped. From their hair-do's to their dresses to their chunky shoes! Bill O'Reilly on FOX News called them "kooky" looking women. It's all a part of "subjugating" women. It's a CULT look, and I see it as ABUSE!

It's high time, in my estimation, that church people take another look at the scripture passages, used by OP's/Apostolics to teach "standards", and examine these texts on their own two feet. What the OP's/Apostolics are teaching on "standards" was simply carried forward from the Holiness Movement into the Pentecostal Movement, but there has been new study and research on these passages since the Holiness Movement!

Go here: www.studyholiness.com

Your post reminded me of something that happened to me a long time ago that was both funny and telling. As a teenager I was attending my first UPC General Conference in Ft. Worth (1975).

As I was walking from my hotel to the convention center there were UPC woman with the giant 1970's oatmeal box high hairdo's everywhere. Two non UPC ladies passed me on the sidewalk and as they went by I heard one say to the other "They're EVERYWHERE!!!!". Like it was a Martian invasion!!! LOL

I thought it was just funny at the time but as I matured I understood the ditch those women were off in with their mile high hair. It became the focus when people looked at them. Not any inner goodness, kindness, fruit of the spirit, etc. The hair was their "badge of holiness" and for too many of them a part of wearing that badge was an attitude of superiority over women who did not.

[navygoat1998]

Your post reminded me of something that happened to me a long time ago that was both funny and telling. As a teenager I was attending my first UPC General Conference in Ft. Worth (1975).

As I was walking from my hotel to the convention center there were UPC woman with the giant 1970's oatmeal box high hairdo's everywhere. Two non UPC ladies passed me on the sidewalk and as they went by I heard one say to the other "They're EVERYWHERE!!!!". Like it was a Martian invasion!!! LOL

I thought it was just funny at the time but as I matured I understood the ditch those women were off in with their mile high hair. It became the focus when people looked at them. Not any inner goodness, kindness, fruit of the spirit, etc. The hair was their "badge of holiness" and for too many of them a part of wearing that badge was an attitude of superiority over women who did not.

It is 2013 and that spirit is still as prevalent today as it was in 1975. So sad!

[Ron]

Your post reminded me of something that happened to me a long time ago that was both funny and telling. As a teenager I was attending my first UPC General Conference in Ft. Worth (1975).

As I was walking from my hotel to the convention center there were UPC woman with the giant 1970's oatmeal box high hairdo's everywhere. Two non UPC ladies passed me on the sidewalk and as they went by I heard one say to the other "They're EVERYWHERE!!!!". Like it was a Martian invasion!!! LOL

I thought it was just funny at the time but as I matured I understood the ditch those women were off in with their mile high hair. It became the focus when people looked at them. Not any inner goodness, kindness, fruit of the spirit, etc. The hair was their "badge of holiness" and for too many of them a part of wearing that badge was an attitude of superiority over women who did not.

It is 2013 and that spirit is still as prevalent today as it was in 1975. So sad!

Said by an ex UPC & seconded by someone who feels that the UPC is a cult.
Very sad indeed!:thumbsup

[navygoat1998]

Said by an ex UPC & seconded by someone who feels that the UPC is a cult.
Very sad indeed!:thumbsup

Ron I am going to write this slow because I know that you don't read fast.

Bro I was in UPC and I never said that UPC is a cult and nor do I think that UPC is a cult.

[KeptByTheWord]

Hey Bro. you outa pull out the Bible & read it. I only post what is in the Bible & if I ever say, tell you that you should eat twinkies & wear blue jeans, then you would have grounds to complain.
If I post Bible principals & yiou get upset, you need to ask yourself--why?
I am just one man, if I am wrong (I don't believe I am) that is no threat to you is it?
If it is Bible, well, that is another story.
I just am puzzled at why you think I am such a threat to you, that's all.

Proverbs 29:23 "A man's pride shall bring him low, but honor shall uphold the humble in spirit."

Rom. 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think: but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

[Ron]

Proverbs 29:23 "A man's pride shall bring him low, but honor shall uphold the humble in spirit."

Rom. 12:3 "For I say, through the grace given unto me, to every man that is among you, not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think: but to think soberly, according as God hath dealt to every man the measure of faith."

Can you grasp the concept? A person hears preaching of the Word & doesn't have the Holy Ghost, yet he starts to clean up his life--did God momentarely take over his life to do the work--no of course not.
Sorry you can not see it Sis!

[Ron]

Ron I am going to write this slow because I know that you don't read fast.

Bro I was in UPC and I never said that UPC is a cult and nor do I think that UPC is a cult.

That is aesome! Thanks for the clarification.
One question that I can ask you if I may, why then do you "allude" to those who hold "Biblical Principals such as 1 Corrinthians 11--ahem, cultish?
It appears that you are contradicting yourself, but I may be missing something.

[navygoat1998]

That is aesome! Thanks for the clarification.
One question that I can ask you if I may, why then do you "allude" to those who hold "Biblical Principals such as 1 Corrinthians 11--ahem, cultish?
It appears that you are contradicting yourself, but I may be missing something.

I said "When Hair and dress are tied to Salvation this is one of the reasons that the Body of Christ considers UPC to be a cult".

I also asked is this teaching worth Christ going to the Cross??

Ron If I thought UPC was a cult, I would tell here and would tell you to your face or even to the face of David Bernard. Wrong teachings yes cult no.

Here is one for you UPC gave us Holy Hair. Assemblies of God gave us Teen Challenge. God gave you Lee Stoneking. God gave us David Wilkerson. Do the math!

[Ron]

I said "When Hair and dress are tied to Salvation this is one of the reasons that the Body of Christ considers UPC to be a cult".

I also asked is this teaching worth Christ going to the Cross??

Ron If I thought UPC was a cult, I would tell here and would tell you to your face or even to the face of David Bernard. Wrong teachings yes cult no.

So do you believe that if it is in the Bible--one must do it?
After all, the Bible does say all scripture is inspired & if one doesn't obey it then one would naturally assume that said person neglecting the scripture would be headed to Devils Hell?
I didn't know that we were supposed to ommit 1 Corrinthians 11

[navygoat1998]

So do you believe that if it is in the Bible--one must do it?
After all, the Bible does say all scripture is inspired & if one doesn't obey it then one would naturally assume that said person neglecting the scripture would be headed to Devils Hell?
I didn't know that we were supposed to ommit 1 Corrinthians 11

Ron I do believe that scripture can be twisted.

So does that mean I should have some slaves or be a slave to somebody according to Paul when he say slaves obey your master????

[Ron]

Ron I do believe that scripture can be twisted.

So does that mean I should have some slaves or be a slave to somebody according to Paul when he say slaves obey your master????

Twisted, or not obeyed?
I just had this brought to my remembrqance & you can take it, or leave it, it is up to you, but it did happen.
When I first came to the Lord, I was wet behind the ears & I couldn't tell you where I Corrinthians 11 was nor what was in it.
I was 19 & there was a girkl who came out of the Sunday School Bus Ministry & I took a liking to her.
She was 17 & she had gorgeous longf hair down to her waist. She was sweet, but then turned nasty, & I couldn't figure out what I did.
I went to sleep & had what I found to be the first of many dreams from the Lord.
I told my Pastor & his jaw dropped because I told him the dream & what God showed me.
God showed me the girl with her back to me, he showed me that she cut her hair into a short pony tail & that she was doing it in defiance to God.
That very thing happened, not too long after that dream & she backslid & married some heathen who beat her.
God gave me that dream, I believe to protect me.

You know that there was slaves in that day & age, & so Paul gave the instructions within that frame work of the Roman Empire.

[Ron]

I said "When Hair and dress are tied to Salvation this is one of the reasons that the Body of Christ considers UPC to be a cult".

I also asked is this teaching worth Christ going to the Cross??

Ron If I thought UPC was a cult, I would tell here and would tell you to your face or even to the face of David Bernard. Wrong teachings yes cult no.

Here is one for you UPC gave us Holy Hair. Assemblies of God gave us Teen Challenge. God gave you Lee Stoneking. God gave us David Wilkerson. Do the math!
UPC did not give Holy Hair, that was coined by somebody somewhere & to tell you the truth, if I hadn't came here, I wouldn't know about it.
Not even happening here.
Bro Stoneking is an awesome man of God & I partially agree with him in this regard. Witches have been known to use hair in potions, ceremonies, & incatations. I had books on Black Magic before I came to the Lord.
Hair on an Apostolic is just that--hair.
If one has it long for ladies or short for men it is a sign of ones walk with God.
Samson had long hair, per his Nazrite vow.
The power wasn't in the hair, but was a sign of his vow, devotion, walk with God.
Amazing what happened when he walked away from it though huh?
As for Teen Chalenge & David Wilkerson, I admire both.
I also admire Mother Theresa as well, but her doctrine was lacking.

[navygoat1998]

Twisted, or not obeyed?
I just had this brought to my remembrqance & you can take it, or leave it, it is up to you, but it did happen.
When I first came to the Lord, I was wet behind the ears & I couldn't tell you where I Corrinthians 11 was nor what was in it.
I was 19 & there was a girkl who came out of the Sunday School Bus Ministry & I took a liking to her.
She was 17 & she had gorgeous longf hair down to her waist. She was sweet, but then turned nasty, & I couldn't figure out what I did.
I went to sleep & had what I found to be the first of many dreams from the Lord.
I told my Pastor & his jaw dropped because I told him the dream & what God showed me.
God showed me the girl with her back to me, he showed me that she cut her hair into a short pony tail & that she was doing it in defiance to God.
That very thing happened, not too long after that dream & she backslid & married some heathen who beat her.
God gave me that dream, I believe to protect me.

You know that there was slaves in that day & age, & so Paul gave the instructions within that frame work of the Roman Empire.

You have to love dreams from the Lord. I too have had dreams from the Lord.

Thank you Ron for supporting my point, Paul gave cultural instructions.

[Farfel]

Twisted, or not obeyed?
I just had this brought to my remembrqance & you can take it, or leave it, it is up to you, but it did happen.
When I first came to the Lord, I was wet behind the ears & I couldn't tell you where I Corrinthians 11 was nor what was in it.
I was 19 & there was a girkl who came out of the Sunday School Bus Ministry & I took a liking to her.
She was 17 & she had gorgeous longf hair down to her waist. She was sweet, but then turned nasty, & I couldn't figure out what I did.
I went to sleep & had what I found to be the first of many dreams from the Lord.
I told my Pastor & his jaw dropped because I told him the dream & what God showed me.
God showed me the girl with her back to me, he showed me that she cut her hair into a short pony tail & that she was doing it in defiance to God.
That very thing happened, not too long after that dream & she backslid & married some heathen who beat her.
God gave me that dream, I believe to protect me.

You know that there was slaves in that day & age, & so Paul gave the instructions within that frame work of the Roman Empire.

And there were pagan customs in that day & age, & so Paul gave the instructions within that framework as well. :thumbsup

[navygoat1998]

UPC did not give Holy Hair, that was coined by somebody somewhere & to tell you the truth, if I hadn't came here, I wouldn't know about it.
Not even happening here.
Bro Stoneking is an awesome man of God & I partially agree with him in this regard. Witches have been known to use hair in potions, ceremonies, & incatations. I had books on Black Magic before I came to the Lord.
Hair on an Apostolic is just that--hair.
If one has it long for ladies or short for men it is a sign of ones walk with God.
Samson had long hair, per his Nazrite vow.
The power wasn't in the hair, but was a sign of his vow, devotion, walk with God.
Amazing what happened when he walked away from it though huh?
As for Teen Chalenge & David Wilkerson, I admire both.
I also admire Mother Theresa as well, but her doctrine was lacking.

David Wilkerson was filled with the same Holy Ghost as you an spoke with tongues as given by the Holy Ghost.

[Ron]

You have to love dreams from the Lord. I too have had dreams from the Lord.

Thank you Ron for supporting my point, Paul gave cultural instructions.

LOL! You are twisting the words just as you are twisting the scriptures!
I am not suprised!
I do not support your point for it is flawed, but then, some will see what they want to see!

[navygoat1998]

LOL! You are twisting the words just as you are twisting the scriptures!
I am not suprised!
I do not support your point for it is flawed, but then, some will see what they want to see!

Yes you will!!!!

[navygoat1998]

LOL! You are twisting the words just as you are twisting the scriptures!
I am not suprised!
I do not support your point for it is flawed, but then, some will see what they want to see!

David Wilkerson was filled with the same Holy Ghost as you an spoke with tongues as given by the Holy Ghost.

[navygoat1998]

LOL! You are twisting the words just as you are twisting the scriptures!
I am not suprised!
I do not support your point for it is flawed, but then, some will see what they want to see!

You are scripture twister!!!!

[Ron]

David Wilkerson was filled with the same Holy Ghost as you an spoke with tongues as given by the Holy Ghost.

I don't deny that. Did I ever say that he wasn't? He has even had some good messages.
However, you need to know that receiving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is only one component.
As you would read in the Bible that there will be many that say in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we bot prophesied in that name, & done great miracles?"
He will say, "depart from me, ye that work iniquity, I never knew ye!"
Doctrine & what one believes is important.
I don't believe in Calvinism.
I have gone to a funeral home with a mans wife to ID her husband because he overdosed on Heroin.
He spoke in tongues at Church too & God even healed him of AIds!!!

[Ron]

You are scripture twister!!!!

It's in the Word!!!! There is even a move with the Women's Lip, I mean Women's Lib movement where Women want to be men & to masculnize themselves--they cut their hair short!!!
Imagine that? God teaches scriptural truths through society.

[navygoat1998]

Bro you have chosen to ignore many scriptures. For years I have pleaded with God to show me His truth and if what we left was the truth, I know the voice of God and would be obedient. He has shown me the truth of His scriptures and that what we left is not the entire truth.

Ron its OK you consider me a backslider and I consider you as a legalistic with unbalanced doctrine.

[Barb]

I read them the first time, thanks. Do you read it differently?

You're purposely being difficult...forget it.

[Ron]

Bro you have chosen to ignore many scriptures. For years I have pleaded with God to show me His truth and if what we left was the truth, I know the voice of God and would be obedient. He has shown me the truth of His scriptures and that what we left is not the entire truth.

Ron its OK you consider me a backslider and I consider you as a legalistic with unbalanced doctrine.

A backslider, oh okay. I didn't even know you were a former UPC. I thought you just did not see the "scriptural truth" as presented.
That's fine. Have a great day in the Lord!:thumbsup

[Ron]

You're purposely being difficult...forget it.

Am I Barb, or are you just being vague & I asked for clarification.
Suit yourself.
Have a good one.

[Barb]

Ron something in my spirit has not set right about you and I could not place my finger on it. You are the holiness patrol. :foottap

Hey Bro. you outa pull out the Bible & read it. I only post what is in the Bible & if I ever say, tell you that you should eat twinkies & wear blue jeans, then you would have grounds to complain.
If I post Bible principals & yiou get upset, you need to ask yourself--why?
I am just one man, if I am wrong (I don't believe I am) that is no threat to you is it?
If it is Bible, well, that is another story.
I just am puzzled at why you think I am such a threat to you, that's all.

Did I miss something in his post?

I took it as a joke rather than a threat...

You tell me!:heeheehee

I'm asking...

...and I'm waiting...

I had to drop the wife off at work. What exactly are you asking and waiting for?

Please go back and read the previous posts...

I read them the first time, thanks. Do you read it differently?I

You're purposely being difficult...forget it.

Am I Barb, or are you just being vague & I asked for clarification.
Suit yourself.
Have a good one.

Vague? Had you gone back, as I asked, and read the previous posts, we wouldn't be going through this. Is that clarification enough for you?

NOW, for the question...again:

How was the original poster saying he thought you were a threat...simple question that didn't take 10 posts to answer.

[Ron]

I





Vague? Had you gone back, as I asked, and read the previous posts, we wouldn't be going through this. Is that clarification enough for you?

NOW, for the question...again:

How was the original poster saying he thought you were a threat...simple question that didn't take 10 posts to answer.

Hold on, now NavyGoat, said I was a threat? No, I don't think so. Did I make this statement:

If I post Bible principals & you get upset, you need to ask yourself--why?
I am just one man, if I am wrong (I don't believe I am) that is no threat to you is it?
If it is Bible, well, that is another story.
I just am puzzled at why you think I am such a threat to you, that's all.

Barb, you have to know that NavyGoat & I have been going back & forth on many different threads.
He had made many statements that seemed to "allude" to the UPC being a cult. To his credit he has since clarified his remarks.
I am only one man & am no threat to him--I am sure he could attest to that as well.
I was making the point, that if I am posting Biblical Truth, what harm is that?
I said also, for the sake of argument that if bI was indeed wrong, what threat am I too him?
He has since agreed to disagree I guess if I am reading his statements correctly. He did state that I felt he was a backslider (I did not know that he had been in a UPC Church.
Does this clarify from my standpoint, the statement in question?

[followingJesus]

So do you believe that if it is in the Bible--one must do it?
After all, the Bible does say all scripture is inspired & if one doesn't obey it then one would naturally assume that said person neglecting the scripture would be headed to Devils Hell?
I didn't know that we were supposed to ommit 1 Corrinthians 11

:yourock

[followingJesus]

I don't deny that. Did I ever say that he wasn't? He has even had some good messages.
However, you need to know that receiving the Baptism of the Holy Ghost is only one component.
As you would read in the Bible that there will be many that say in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we bot prophesied in that name, & done great miracles?"
He will say, "depart from me, ye that work iniquity, I never knew ye!"
Doctrine & what one believes is important.
I don't believe in Calvinism.
I have gone to a funeral home with a mans wife to ID her husband because he overdosed on Heroin.
He spoke in tongues at Church too & God even healed him of AIds!!!

:thumbsup:thumbsup:thumbsup

[Barb]

I





Vague? Had you gone back, as I asked, and read the previous posts, we wouldn't be going through this. Is that clarification enough for you?

NOW, for the question...again:

How was the original poster saying he thought you were a threat...simple question that didn't take 10 posts to answer.

Hold on, now NavyGoat, said I was a threat? No, I don't think so. Did I make this statement:

If I post Bible principals & you get upset, you need to ask yourself--why?
I am just one man, if I am wrong (I don't believe I am) that is no threat to you is it?
If it is Bible, well, that is another story.
I just am puzzled at why you think I am such a threat to you, that's all.

Barb, you have to know that NavyGoat & I have been going back & forth on many different threads.
He had made many statements that seemed to "allude" to the UPC being a cult. To his credit he has since clarified his remarks.
I am only one man & am no threat to him--I am sure he could attest to that as well.
I was making the point, that if I am posting Biblical Truth, what harm is that?
I said also, for the sake of argument that if bI was indeed wrong, what threat am I too him?
He has since agreed to disagree I guess if I am reading his statements correctly. He did state that I felt he was a backslider (I did not know that he had been in a UPC Church.
Does this clarify from my standpoint, the statement in question?

YOU posted, "I just am puzzled at why you think I am such a threat to you..."

I didn't read that into his post...

[Evang.Benincasa]

What are you all posting about?

[Cindy]

What are you all posting about?

I have no clue, EB. I think it started out to be about to cut or not to cut hair.

[Cindy]

The thread was first started in 2008.

[Evang.Benincasa]

I have no clue, EB. I think it started out to be about to cut or not to cut hair.

Oh, they are having sweet fellowship. :highfive

[AreYouReady?]

Oh, they are having sweet fellowship. :highfive

:lol :lol :lol

[Cindy]

Oh, they are having sweet fellowship. :highfive

:heeheehee

[RandyWayne]

The thread was first started in 2008.

The same year Obama was first elected. Coincidence?

[Evang.Benincasa]

The same year Obama was first elected. Coincidence?

Quick get Alex Jones!

[Sweet Pea]

Your post reminded me of something that happened to me a long time ago that was both funny and telling. As a teenager I was attending my first UPC General Conference in Ft. Worth (1975).

As I was walking from my hotel to the convention center there were UPC woman with the giant 1970's oatmeal box high hairdo's everywhere. Two non UPC ladies passed me on the sidewalk and as they went by I heard one say to the other "They're EVERYWHERE!!!!". Like it was a Martian invasion!!! LOL

I thought it was just funny at the time but as I matured I understood the ditch those women were off in with their mile high hair. It became the focus when people looked at them. Not any inner goodness, kindness, fruit of the spirit, etc. The hair was their "badge of holiness" and for too many of them a part of wearing that badge was an attitude of superiority over women who did not.

It is 2013 and that spirit is still as prevalent today as it was in 1975. So sad!

Said by an ex UPC & seconded by someone who feels that the UPC is a cult.
Very sad indeed!:thumbsup

Ron, I am UPC and have been for many, many years. I have long hair, although some in the church I attend do not. It is my personal preference.

Having said that, I will have to say that there IS sometimes a spirit of pride and superiority that some of our women have regarding their hair. For sure not all of them, but it is there. I have experienced it and it is sometimes inadvertently instilled in our young girls. Long hair should never be a source of pride. It should never define our relationship and walk with God. Jesus said that we would be known as His disciples because we have love for one another. He didn't say it would be because of how we "look". Yes, I do believe in some standards, but I think that for too many years it has been our defining criteria when God never intended it to be so.

I think sometimes you are too hard on those who were once UPC. Not all former UPCers are bitter or backslid. My long hair will not be my free pass into heaven. My salvation is only through faith in the work that Jesus did on the cross! Yes, I believe in Repentance, Jesus Name baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

[Farfel]

Ron, I am UPC and have been for many, many years. I have long hair, although some in the church I attend do not. It is my personal preference.

Having said that, I will have to say that there IS sometimes a spirit of pride and superiority that some of our women have regarding their hair. For sure not all of them, but it is there. I have experienced it and it is sometimes inadvertently instilled in our young girls. Long hair should never be a source of pride. It should never define our relationship and walk with God. Jesus said that we would be known as His disciples because we have love for one another. He didn't say it would be because of how we "look". Yes, I do believe in some standards, but I think that for too many years it has been our defining criteria when God never intended it to be so.

I think sometimes you are too hard on those who were once UPC. Not all former UPCers are bitter or backslid. My long hair will not be my free pass into heaven. My salvation is only through faith in the work that Jesus did on the cross! Yes, I believe in Repentance, Jesus Name baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

:nod:highfive

[Steve Epley]

There is NOT one person saved without obeying Acts 2:38.

[houston]

There is NOT one person saved without obeying Acts 2:38. *Yawn*

[AreYouReady?]

There are some here who think that they are a god that can judge people's eternity.

There is only ONE God, ONE judge who will judge righteous judgment.

[Cindy]

His burden is easy, sins burden is hard. The problem is figuring out which is which, for some. And woe unto the man that places a burden on his brother.

[Ron]

There is NOT one person saved without obeying Acts 2:38.

There are some here who think that they are a god that can judge people's eternity.

There is only ONE God, ONE judge who will judge righteous judgment.

So if one holds to Biblical Truth, they are placing themselves in God's stead?
I thought we are Ambassadors for Christ. An Ambassador just relays the message from the King he/she represents.
We are not to change it.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Why in Paul's time was 1 COR. 11 written what did it mean to the original audience ?

[Scott Hutchinson]

Compare this with King Jimmy.
http://www.biblestudytools.com/bbe/1-corinthians/11.html

[KeptByTheWord]

I think sometimes you are too hard on those who were once UPC. Not all former UPCers are bitter or backslid. My long hair will not be my free pass into heaven. My salvation is only through faith in the work that Jesus did on the cross! Yes, I believe in Repentance, Jesus Name baptism and the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

Amen! :highfive

[KeptByTheWord]

The same year Obama was first elected. Coincidence?

Quick get Alex Jones!

:lol

[Pressing-On]

"We don't see this as the single greatest proof that a woman has a walk with God," Gurley said. "We just feel like it is being faithful to our holiness heritage, and in a world where so much has changed, and not necessarily for the better, it shows our reverence to God." - Ken Gurley
This is, from my experience, how many of us view the standards. He worded it very well. And I don't have a problem with anyone who feels this is the best way they can live for God.

What I do have a problem with is putting others in hell who don't feel that this is how they can live.

I also have a problem with preaching it is NOT a heaven or hell issue, but viewing those who don't follow along, in the church, as backslidden. That has been my experience in every church I am acquainted with. That is confusing. IMO, you can't have it both ways.

I do know how Bro. Epley feels about that. He is consistent in what he believes and he is an honest man. I have no problem with that and I can respect him for it.

I do believe that Acts 2:38 is the message. When you study baptism, you find out that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. So, I believe strongly in that. All the Epistles, in my estimation, point back to these truths. That is much, much more important to me - "how can I be saved", than how long my hair is supposed to be? For me, it is a gender distinction. I don't think men should have long hair, like a woman, nor do I believe women should have short hair like a man.

When you say it may be necessary to reach outside of the Greek to interpret "long" as "uncut", I have a problem with that as well. I don't know why Paul would reach "outside" of the Greek when he is speaking to a Greek audience.

[Sweet Pea]

This is, from my experience, how many of us view the standards. He worded it very well. And I don't have a problem with anyone who feels this is the best way they can live for God.

What I do have a problem with is putting others in hell who don't feel that this is how they can live.

I also have a problem with preaching it is NOT a heaven or hell issue, but viewing those who don't follow along, in the church, as backslidden. That has been my experience in every church I am acquainted with. That is confusing. IMO, you can't have it both ways.

I do know how Bro. Epley feels about that. He is consistent in what he believes and he is an honest man. I have no problem with that and I can respect him for it.

I do believe that Acts 2:38 is the message. When you study baptism, you find out that Jesus is God manifest in the flesh. So, I believe strongly in that. All the Epistles, in my estimation, point back to these truths. That is much, much more important to me - "how can I be saved", than how long my hair is supposed to be? For me, it is a gender distinction. I don't think men should have long hair, like a woman, nor do I believe women should have short hair like a man.

When you say it may be necessary to reach outside of the Greek to interpret "long" as "uncut", I have a problem with that as well. I don't know why Paul would reach "outside" of the Greek when he is speaking to a Greek audience.


:thumbsup
:yourock

[Pressing-On]

:thumbsup
:yourock

Thanks, I was actually writing that and tattling to God about it. :heeheehee