Why are You a Part of Something You Hate?

[Nahum]

Why do people continue to be a part of something they hate? Isn't this level of self-loathing unhealthy and harmful to the groups they are a part of? It really slays me that people identify themselves as Apostolic Pentecostals and then rip and shred the church or organization they are a part of to bits.

I can understand that we all have some level of differences of opinion.
That's cool.

But when your complaints elevate to an incessant whine regarding everything in your church and organization - what's the point? Why not just leave?

Lately AFF has turned into one big "I hate my heritage" concert. It's getting very old, very fast. People ripping on their pastors, their bylaws, their parents beliefs, their church's standards, their church's lack of standards.

Then we have the whole "I should get paid to sing in the choir" crowd. Ridiculous! Add to that the assertion that if you give LITERALLY one penny in a church's offering you are automatically a legal member and can sue the church to get your way about anything. INSANE!!!!!!!!

Is there a motive behind all this whining? Is there a move to reduce the authority of the ministry to rubble? Is there an "I will ascend" spirit involved in all of this moaning and groaning?

I think we all know the answer............... The answer is yes!!!!!!!!
A thousand times yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems very few want to FOLLOW Jesus and his ministers anywhere. Instead, they want a Jesus, and a pastor, and a church, that will cowtow to every little self-willed whim that catches their fancy.

What the church needs is a revival of sacrifice. We are lazy, and fat, and drunk, on the pleasures of this world. You need to quit trying to push your agenda, railroading your pastor, and bartering with God.

How about a spirit of meekness and service instead? Would God that someone would FOR ONCE IN THEIR MISERABLE LIVES try their best to support their pastor and his family instead of bashing their heads up against the wall every time they do something you disagree with.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

We need Bro Epley's Testimony or Renda's This is the Day The LORD has made threads.....

Is this one positive enough to get responses?

[Nahum]

We need Bro Epley's Testimony or Renda's This is the Day The LORD has made threads.....

Is this one positive enough to get responses?

You know its not. It will be totally ignored, or someone will say

"but, but, but you don't understand, Pastor Poster!!!"

"What's wrong with you, Pastor Poster?"

"Why are you so mean, Pastor Poster?"

[Ron]

Why do people continue to be a part of something they hate? Isn't this level of self-loathing unhealthy and harmful to the groups they are a part of? It really slays me that people identify themselves as Apostolic Pentecostals and then rip and shred the church or organization they are a part of to bits.

I can understand that we all have some level of differences of opinion.
That's cool.

But when your complaints elevate to an incessant whine regarding everything in your church and organization - what's the point? Why not just leave?

Lately AFF has turned into one big "I hate my heritage" concert. It's getting very old, very fast. People ripping on their pastors, their bylaws, their parents beliefs, their church's standards, their church's lack of standards.

Then we have the whole "I should get paid to sing in the choir" crowd. Ridiculous! Add to that the assertion that if you give LITERALLY one penny in a church's offering you are automatically a legal member and can sue the church to get your way about anything. INSANE!!!!!!!!

Is there a motive behind all this whining? Is there a move to reduce the authority of the ministry to rubble? Is there an "I will ascend" spirit involved in all of this moaning and groaning?

I think we all know the answer............... The answer is yes!!!!!!!!
A thousand times yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems very few want to FOLLOW Jesus and his ministers anywhere. Instead, they want a Jesus, and a pastor, and a church, that will cowtow to every little self-willed whim that catches their fancy.

What the church needs is a revival of sacrifice. We are lazy, and fat, and drunk, on the pleasures of this world. You need to quit trying to push your agenda, railroading your pastor, and bartering with God.

How about a spirit of meekness and service instead? Would God that someone would FOR ONCE IN THEIR MISERABLE LIVES try their best to support their pastor and his family instead of bashing their heads up against the wall every time they do something you disagree with.

Why the nerve!!!!:D

Very good post.
The sentence about fat & lazy isn't just restricted to the American Church either.:tiphat

[Tina]

You know its not. It will be totally ignored, or someone will say

"but, but, but you don't understand, Pastor Poster!!!"

"What's wrong with you, Pastor Poster?"

"Why are you so mean, Pastor Poster?"


I can't argue with anything you posted. There's not much I can add at the moment..... except maybe for an AMEN! I don't think you're mean at all.........







and I didn't ignore the thread :D

[rgcraig]

PP,

People just love a good fuss!

I was just perusing Pentecostal Praise and Worship Hymnal song titles trying to find something and ran across this title "We'll Girdle the Globe"!!!

What in the world is that song about? :toofunny

[rgcraig]

WE’LL GIRDLE THE GLOBE

Written in 1891
Vivian Dake

Behold the hands stretched out for aid,
Darkened by sin and sore dismayed;
Oh, will you to their rescue go,
Lost wand’rers down to endless woe?

Refrain

We’ll girdle the globe with salvation,
With holiness unto the Lord;
And light shall illumine each nation,
The light from the lamp of His Word.

In heathen lands they watch and wait,
And sigh for help which comes so late,
And grope in sin and nature’s night,
Forever vainly seeking light.

Refrain

Oh, flash the tidings! shout the sound,
In darkest lands the world around,
Till all the earth from pole to pole,
Shall full salvation echoes roll.

Refrain

The watch fires kindle far and near,
In ev’ry land let them appear,
Till burning lines of Gospel fire,
Shall gird the world and mount up higher.

Refrain

[Nahum]

PP,

People just love a good fuss!

I was just perusing Pentecostal Praise and Worship Hymnal song titles trying to find something and ran across this title "We'll Girdle and Globe"!!!

What in the world is that song about? :toofunny

You know, I love a good agrument! But this has risen to a level of stupidity.

That someone expects to get paid for being an usher, or greeter, and if they are not the church is cheap, the pastor is a thief, and life is unfair.

I planted a church, work full time, have a wife and three kids, just finished writing a book, and teach dozens of bible studies. I have never recieved one paycheck for my pastoral ministry in my church. I put it all back.

I guess life is unfair? What a bunch of selfish whiney-babies!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We need revival!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[StillStanding]

Pastor Poster, I enjoy reading your posts, but this time I think you're taking everyone a little too seriously!

The griping and complaining has been going on since the beginning of the church, but mostly privately.

The internet allows us to voice our concerns without necessarily worrying about a personal consequence. This allows for more open and honest conversation. JMHO :grampa

[rgcraig]

You know, I love a good agrument! But this has risen to a level of stupidity.

That someone expects to get paid for being an usher, or greeter, and if they are not the church is cheap, the pastor is a thief, and life is unfair.

I planted a church, work full time, have a wife and three kids, just finished writing a book, and teach dozens of bible studies. I have never recieved one paycheck for my pastoral ministry in my church. I put it all back.

I guess life is unfair? What a bunch of selfish whiney-babies!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We need revival!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let's GIRDLE THE GLOBE!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Felicity]

You know, I love a good agrument! But this has risen to a level of stupidity.

That someone expects to get paid for being an usher, or greeter, and if they are not the church is cheap, the pastor is a thief, and life is unfair.

I planted a church, work full time, have a wife and three kids, just finished writing a book, and teach dozens of bible studies. I have never recieved one paycheck for my pastoral ministry in my church. I put it all back.

I guess life is unfair? What a bunch of selfish whiney-babies!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We need revival!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Why do you not receive any income from your church?

[OGIA]

We need revival!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!We better get off our booties and go..........*gasp*...........out soul winning, then! :friend

[QueenEsther]

Why do people continue to be a part of something they hate? Isn't this level of self-loathing unhealthy and harmful to the groups they are a part of? It really slays me that people identify themselves as Apostolic Pentecostals and then rip and shred the church or organization they are a part of to bits.

I can understand that we all have some level of differences of opinion.
That's cool.

But when your complaints elevate to an incessant whine regarding everything in your church and organization - what's the point? Why not just leave?

Lately AFF has turned into one big "I hate my heritage" concert. It's getting very old, very fast. People ripping on their pastors, their bylaws, their parents beliefs, their church's standards, their church's lack of standards.

Then we have the whole "I should get paid to sing in the choir" crowd. Ridiculous! Add to that the assertion that if you give LITERALLY one penny in a church's offering you are automatically a legal member and can sue the church to get your way about anything. INSANE!!!!!!!!

Is there a motive behind all this whining? Is there a move to reduce the authority of the ministry to rubble? Is there an "I will ascend" spirit involved in all of this moaning and groaning?

I think we all know the answer............... The answer is yes!!!!!!!!
A thousand times yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems very few want to FOLLOW Jesus and his ministers anywhere. Instead, they want a Jesus, and a pastor, and a church, that will cowtow to every little self-willed whim that catches their fancy.

What the church needs is a revival of sacrifice. We are lazy, and fat, and drunk, on the pleasures of this world. You need to quit trying to push your agenda, railroading your pastor, and bartering with God.

How about a spirit of meekness and service instead? Would God that someone would FOR ONCE IN THEIR MISERABLE LIVES try their best to support their pastor and his family instead of bashing their heads up against the wall every time they do something you disagree with.

Amen!!
You have posted EXACTLY what has been going through my head as I have been reading on here over the last few days and weeks.

[rgcraig]

Why do you not receive any income from your church?
He said he put it all back.

[Nahum]

Consider the totally whacked thread titled "What Would it Take to Get You Back in The UPC?".

Are you kidding me? How pompous and self-absorbed can you get?

As if the UPC should change everything to accomodate your will?

Get real people! Do you really think that highly of yourselves?

[QueenEsther]

We better get off our booties and go..........*gasp*...........out soul winning, then! :friend

Amen!!

[Felicity]

He said he put it all back.Yes, I read that.

[QueenEsther]

Consider the totally whacked thread titled "What Would it Take to Get You Back in The UPC?".

Are you kidding me? How pompous and self-absorbed can you get?

As if the UPC should change everything to accomodate your will?

Get real people! Do you really think that highly of yourselves?

Everyone has a "choice". No one can make anyone do anything they don't want to do.

[Digging4Truth]

Lately AFF has turned into one big "I hate my heritage" concert. It's getting very old, very fast.

From this line the title question takes on an irony of it's own.

[Nahum]

He said he put it all back.

I said I have not "received". I do put it all back.

As the church has grown I have hired people to assist me.

The church comes first, not me.

God has blessed me in other ways.

BTW, I am a nobody. There are thousands of men and women who VOLUNTEER their lives to God every day. Missionaries, both at home and abroad who sacrifice to extreme measures. What a selfish bunch we are.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

Later we will have a MP3 of Renda singing that hymn.

All 4 verses!

[rgcraig]

I said I have not "received". I do put it all back.

As the church has grown I have hired people to assist me.

The church comes first, not me.

God has blessed me in other ways.

BTW, I am a nobody. There are thousands of men and women who VOLUNTEER their lives to God every day. Missionaries, both at home and abroad who sacrifice to extreme measures. What a selfish bunch we are.
That is awesome!

[Felicity]

Even when we were pastoring a very small work we received some income from the church and later when we started a UPC work with only 5 tithers we received some income and the people helped us out in other ways as well. Our fellowship section paid our rent.

[Nahum]

From this line your thread the title question takes on an irony of it's own.

Good point.

The difference is I am not bashing AFF. I am bashing the self-absorbed little twits that don't post anything of substance. Instead, they rip and shred at every opportunity.

I would like to see someone post something great about pastors, and churches for once.

[StillStanding]

Consider the totally whacked thread titled "What Would it Take to Get You Back in The UPC?".

Are you kidding me? How pompous and self-absorbed can you get?

As if the UPC should change everything to accomodate your will?

Get real people! Do you really think that highly of yourselves?

Most of us were simply answering a hypothetical question! I certainly don't HATE the UPC! :nah

[Digging4Truth]

Good point.

The difference is I am not bashing AFF. I am bashing the self-absorbed little twits that don't post anything of substance. Instead, they rip and shred at every opportunity.

I would like to see someone post something great about pastors, and churches for once.

Perhaps your comments in this thread will drum up some deep seated feelings of respect and honor that were heretofore forgotten.

[Nahum]

Even when we were pastoring a very small work we received some income from the church and later when we started a UPC work with only 5 tithers we received some income and the people helped us out in other ways as well. Our fellowship section paid our rent.

I could if I wanted to. The church writes something to me, and I give it back.

They are in the habit of giving. It is totally my choice.

That is not the issue in this thread. The issue is selfishness.

[Nahum]

Perhaps your comments in this thread will drum up some deep seated feelings of respect and honor that were heretofore forgotten.

I doubt it. Some, like you, will miss the forest for the trees.

I think if you view the full body of all my posts you will find that I am rather fair.

But truthfully, there are some who have NO RESPECT for the church or the ministry.

[Digging4Truth]

I doubt it. Some, like you, will miss the forest for the trees.

I think if you view the full body of all my posts you will find that I am rather fair.

But truthfully, there are some who have NO RESPECT for the church or the ministry.

I think you're probably right....

But then again... I missed the forest for the trees so... who knows.

[Nahum]

I think we need someone to post the lyrics to that old Elvis tune, "I Did It My Way".

We are raising up a bunch of "MEMEMEMEMEMEME" people.

[Felicity]

I could if I wanted to. The church writes something to me, and I give it back.

They are in the habit of giving. It is totally my choice.

That is not the issue in this thread. The issue is selfishness.I understand what the issue of the thread is. I was just surprised that after pastoring as long as you have you still don't take financial support from the church so curiosity posed the question. :)

I also know what it is to sacrifice and go without. We've been willing to give all if necessary. It's been our attitude through the years really.

[Kutless]

Why do people continue to be a part of something they hate? Isn't this level of self-loathing unhealthy and harmful to the groups they are a part of? It really slays me that people identify themselves as Apostolic Pentecostals and then rip and shred the church or organization they are a part of to bits.

I can understand that we all have some level of differences of opinion.
That's cool.

But when your complaints elevate to an incessant whine regarding everything in your church and organization - what's the point? Why not just leave?

Lately AFF has turned into one big "I hate my heritage" concert. It's getting very old, very fast. People ripping on their pastors, their bylaws, their parents beliefs, their church's standards, their church's lack of standards.

Then we have the whole "I should get paid to sing in the choir" crowd. Ridiculous! Add to that the assertion that if you give LITERALLY one penny in a church's offering you are automatically a legal member and can sue the church to get your way about anything. INSANE!!!!!!!!

Is there a motive behind all this whining? Is there a move to reduce the authority of the ministry to rubble? Is there an "I will ascend" spirit involved in all of this moaning and groaning?

I think we all know the answer............... The answer is yes!!!!!!!!
A thousand times yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems very few want to FOLLOW Jesus and his ministers anywhere. Instead, they want a Jesus, and a pastor, and a church, that will cowtow to every little self-willed whim that catches their fancy.

What the church needs is a revival of sacrifice. We are lazy, and fat, and drunk, on the pleasures of this world. You need to quit trying to push your agenda, railroading your pastor, and bartering with God.

How about a spirit of meekness and service instead? Would God that someone would FOR ONCE IN THEIR MISERABLE LIVES try their best to support their pastor and his family instead of bashing their heads up against the wall every time they do something you disagree with.PP, I was the one who started the by-laws thread. If there is a problem you know my number.

[Kutless]

While I'm thinking about it aren't you the one who wanted to escape the borg?

[rgcraig]

Okay, I bumped the thread I started yesterday that Boom mentioned.

It had 7 post from all day yesterday.

Seems that everyone enjoys the fussing threads more.

[StillStanding]

I think we need someone to post the lyrics to that old Elvis tune, "I Did It My Way".

We are raising up a bunch of "MEMEMEMEMEMEME" people.

"I Did it My Way" is Hell's theme song!

We live in narcissistic culture!

[Newman]

I think we need someone to post the lyrics to that old Elvis tune, "I Did It My Way".

We are raising up a bunch of "MEMEMEMEMEMEME" people.

AHHHH..... Looking at the Bigger Picture.....

1. The opposite of love isn't hate; its indifference. I think there is much angst because posters still care a great deal about the organization/church/culture that shaped their lives.

2. I fear that those who are particularly hostile and disrespectful were treated in like mannor; and that is where they learned it from.

I confess to hearing one minister on the televised/web tell his people all kinds of negative things about themselves and being dumbfounded that he was in leadership. Thankfully, I am not personally aquainted with such leadership style.

3. There is a difference in being a pastor and putting in free time for now and being a saint and putting in free time.

The pastor obviously can expect an annuity like stream of income for his work down the road; unlike the musician who has no hope of such outcome.

Which isn't to say that it is right or wrong to seek payment; but merely to point out that the playing field has different levels and payouts. ;)

[COOPER]

Why do people continue to be a part of something they hate? Isn't this level of self-loathing unhealthy and harmful to the groups they are a part of? It really slays me that people identify themselves as Apostolic Pentecostals and then rip and shred the church or organization they are a part of to bits.

I can understand that we all have some level of differences of opinion.
That's cool.

But when your complaints elevate to an incessant whine regarding everything in your church and organization - what's the point? Why not just leave?

Lately AFF has turned into one big "I hate my heritage" concert. It's getting very old, very fast. People ripping on their pastors, their bylaws, their parents beliefs, their church's standards, their church's lack of standards.

Then we have the whole "I should get paid to sing in the choir" crowd. Ridiculous! Add to that the assertion that if you give LITERALLY one penny in a church's offering you are automatically a legal member and can sue the church to get your way about anything. INSANE!!!!!!!!

Is there a motive behind all this whining? Is there a move to reduce the authority of the ministry to rubble? Is there an "I will ascend" spirit involved in all of this moaning and groaning?

I think we all know the answer............... The answer is yes!!!!!!!!
A thousand times yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems very few want to FOLLOW Jesus and his ministers anywhere. Instead, they want a Jesus, and a pastor, and a church, that will cowtow to every little self-willed whim that catches their fancy.

What the church needs is a revival of sacrifice. We are lazy, and fat, and drunk, on the pleasures of this world. You need to quit trying to push your agenda, railroading your pastor, and bartering with God.

How about a spirit of meekness and service instead? Would God that someone would FOR ONCE IN THEIR MISERABLE LIVES try their best to support their pastor and his family instead of bashing their heads up against the wall every time they do something you disagree with.

I have left.

But I get picked on for that too.

Catch 22

[Rhoni]

Pastor Poster,

The UPCI organization is like a family...we can talk about each other, strengths and weaknesses, but don't let an outsider do it or they will be crucified.

I don't think anyone has said they hated their heritage, on the contrary...we all agree that the UPCI has been one of the best things that happened to us...but just like a dysfunctional family it can also be our undoing.

Blessings, Rhoni

[COOPER]

You know, I love a good agrument! But this has risen to a level of stupidity.

That someone expects to get paid for being an usher, or greeter, and if they are not the church is cheap, the pastor is a thief, and life is unfair.

I planted a church, work full time, have a wife and three kids, just finished writing a book, and teach dozens of bible studies. I have never recieved one paycheck for my pastoral ministry in my church. I put it all back.

I guess life is unfair? What a bunch of selfish whiney-babies!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We need revival!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Church planting buisness is exatly that.

Great Texas big Churches are pooping up all over Amarillo.

Millions of dollars are pouring in.

Churches are a good investment if your not UPC.

[Digging4Truth]

The Church planting buisness is exatly that.

Great Texas big Churches are pooping up all over Amarillo.

Millions of dollars are pouring in.

Churches are a good investment if your not UPC.

Fighting iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittt...

Fighting iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitt.

:slaphappy

[COOPER]

Pianoman[/B];49186]"I Did it My Way" is Hell's theme song!

We live in narcissistic culture!
Billy Joel

Yes they call me the piano man..... and my mike smells like a beer.

and theres davey who's still in the Navy... All probubly will be for life! La da dee da dee da da

Not calling you a beer drinker.

[COOPER]

Fighting iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiittt...

Fighting iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitt.

:slaphappy
I meant it that way too!!!!:happydance

[StillStanding]

Billy Joel

Yes they call me the piano man..... and my mike smells like a beer.

and theres davey who's still in the Navy... All probubly will be for life! La da dee da dee da da

Not calling you a beer drinker.
My mike smells like yesterday's breakfast! :aaa yuck!

[rgcraig]

I think if you run a list of the thread titles there are more threads that don't discuss what you've mentioned.

It comes up a lot because that's what we all have in common or we wouldn't be here!

[COOPER]

My mike smells like yesterday's breakfast! :aaa yuck!

Sour eggs or capt'n crunch?

[StillStanding]

I think if you run a list of the thread titles there are more threads that don't discuss what you've mentioned.

It comes up a lot because that's what we all have in common or we wouldn't be here!
I don't mean to be rude, but you need to quit making too much sense! :winkgrin

[rgcraig]

I don't mean to be rude, but you need to quit making too much sense! :winkgrin

Some might question that!

[Nahum]

PP, I was the one who started the by-laws thread. If there is a problem you know my number.

I have no problem with a bylaws thread. I have a problem with people making ignorant satements to the effect of "sue the church if you don't get your way" after "if you make any donation you are an investor".

[Nahum]

I think if you run a list of the thread titles there are more threads that don't discuss what you've mentioned.

It comes up a lot because that's what we all have in common or we wouldn't be here!

What do we all have in common? A grave dislike for the UPC, and pastors, and churches?

[Nahum]

While I'm thinking about it aren't you the one who wanted to escape the borg?

Yes. But the borg is an ideology, not the entirety of ministry.

[Nahum]

I understand what the issue of the thread is. I was just surprised that after pastoring as long as you have you still don't take financial support from the church so curiosity posed the question. :)

I also know what it is to sacrifice and go without. We've been willing to give all if necessary. It's been our attitude through the years really.

Yes, that's the point. There is a difference in attitude. Some give all, while others expect everything for nothing.

[QueenEsther]

Okay, I bumped the thread I started yesterday that Boom mentioned.

It had 7 post from all day yesterday.

Seems that everyone enjoys the fussing threads more.

I'm sorry, I didn't see it until today. :(

[StillStanding]

What do we all have in common? A grave dislike for the UPC, and pastors, and churches?
My moderate friend, methinks you're having a bad day! Sorry!

[mizpeh]

You know, I love a good agrument! But this has risen to a level of stupidity.

That someone expects to get paid for being an usher, or greeter, and if they are not the church is cheap, the pastor is a thief, and life is unfair.

I planted a church, work full time, have a wife and three kids, just finished writing a book, and teach dozens of bible studies. I have never recieved one paycheck for my pastoral ministry in my church. I put it all back.

I guess life is unfair? What a bunch of selfish whiney-babies!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We need revival!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Bless the Lord.

[Nahum]

AHHHH..... Looking at the Bigger Picture.....

1. The opposite of love isn't hate; its indifference. I think there is much angst because posters still care a great deal about the organization/church/culture that shaped their lives.

2. I fear that those who are particularly hostile and disrespectful were treated in like mannor; and that is where they learned it from.

I confess to hearing one minister on the televised/web tell his people all kinds of negative things about themselves and being dumbfounded that he was in leadership. Thankfully, I am not personally aquainted with such leadership style.

3. There is a difference in being a pastor and putting in free time for now and being a saint and putting in free time.

The pastor obviously can expect an annuity like stream of income for his work down the road; unlike the musician who has no hope of such outcome.

Which isn't to say that it is right or wrong to seek payment; but merely to point out that the playing field has different levels and payouts. ;)

There is truth in your post.

BUT, are there no positive aspects to involvement in church, annd in pastoral saint relationships - EVER?

I do not preach negativity to the church I pastor. They are a great bunch of people.

[Nahum]

My moderate friend, methinks you're having a bad day! Sorry!

Pianoman, don't you ever see the group think of this forum moving a certain way? Every once in a while we need a calibration.

[rgcraig]

What do we all have in common? A grave dislike for the UPC, and pastors, and churches?

It's all in the perspective. I don't get all involved in those threads, so I don't see that it's the majority here.

What we all have in common is UPC roots - from those roots some grew strong oak trees, some weak willows just blowing in the wind, some fruit bearing trees, but they are all trees.

[Nahum]

Amen!!
You have posted EXACTLY what has been going through my head as I have been reading on here over the last few days and weeks.

Praise God!!!!!!

[Felicity]

I'm not terribly enthused about what we're with (organization-wise) in regard to some things. I have complained a fair amount but then one day I decided that I would change my attitude and use whatever bit of influence I have in a positive way to affect things for the good.

Last Summer at a regional meeting I told the Moderator of ACOP that I had decided to quit complaining (yes I was honest and told him that I had done a fair bit of that :)), that I was going to pray for him that God would use him, lead him and anoint him in a greater way than ever before. He was SO genuinely appreciative!

My husband's attitude and desire has always been to serve and cooperate and be a team player of what he was part of. And that's exactly what he has been. He has never expected anything for it either and has given and worked sacrificially with no self serving motive.

Hoping I'm ON topic here. :)

[Nahum]

It's all in the perspective. I don't get all involved in those threads, so I don't see that it's the majority here.

What we all have in common is UPC roots - from those roots some grew strong oak trees, some weak willows just blowing in the wind, some fruit bearing trees, but they are all trees.

Maybe. I just wish someone would post something POSITIVE about ministry.

Sometimes I feel like I am before a firing squad on here.

[Newman]

BUT, are there no positive aspects to involvement in church, annd in pastoral saint relationships - EVER?



Of course there is; otherwise there would only be INDIFFERENCE. ;)

[rgcraig]

Maybe. I just wish someone would post something POSITIVE about ministry.

Sometimes I feel like I am before a firing squad on here.Maybe you are taking the weight all on your shoulders and you shouldn't! :friend

[Nahum]

I'm not terribly enthused about what we're with in regard to some things. I complained a far amount but then I decided that I would use whatever bit of influence I have in a positive way.

I told the Moderator of ACOP that I had decided to quit complaining (yes I was honest and told him that I had done a fair bit of that) and that I was going to pray for him that God would use him, lead him and anoint him in a greater than ever way. He was SO genuinely appreciative!

My husband's attitude and desire has always been to serve and cooperate and be a team player of what he was part of. And that's exactly what he has been. He has never expected anything for it either and has given and worked sacrificially with no self serving motive.

Hoping I'm ON topic here. :)

Felicity, you never tear down ministry. There are many of us that take issue with some ideology, but we never run down the ministry or God's church.

You are always on topic!!!!!:tiphat

[mizpeh]

What do we all have in common? A grave dislike for the UPC, and pastors, and churches?

Don't include me in that mess! I like my pastor and my church and my tithes go to God...The UPC is full of my brothers and sisters. You're only listening to the squeaky wheels.

[Nahum]

Maybe you are taking the weight all on your shoulders and you shouldn't! :friend

I doubt it. I betcha some other ministers feel the same way, and aren't as bullheaded about it as I am.

[Felicity]

Newman has been blessed and privileged indeed to grow up under the kind of leadership her church has and has modeled. I've been there several times and know some of who have been and are in pastoral leadership. Wonderful humble sweet people who have grown a wonderful church.

Like begets like.

[Felicity]

Pastor P..........

It would be so great to talk with you in person I think. Never know ..... maybe someday you'll make a trip west or we'll make a trip southeast a bit. :)

[Nahum]

Pastor P..........

It would be so great to talk with you in person I think. Never know ..... maybe someday you'll make a trip west or we'll make a trip southeast a bit. :)

It would be nice. :tiphat

Hopefully everyone knows I really enjoy this forum. I have made great friendships here. It just drives me batty when the entire board is full of anti-ministry threads. It seems to happen every now and again.

[StillStanding]

Pianoman, don't you ever see the group think of this forum moving a certain way? Every once in a while we need a calibration.

I believe the center position on AFF moves from day to day depending on which posters are present. I hope you notice that I never AMEN a post criticising the UPC or it's people. As a child growing up in a UPC pastor's home, I have a great respect for those that choose to follow that calling.

I have an even greater respect for those that are not in their ministry to get rich. I appears that you have your priorities in order. I pray that one day your church is blessed enough to totally support you. :)

[Felicity]

I doubt it. I betcha some other ministers feel the same way, and aren't as bullheaded about it as I am.I can understand a little better where you're coming from seein's how you aren't even supported financially (you put it all back into the work) and why you feel there are a lot of selfish complainers around. But even if that wasn't the case, the truth is, there are.

We're a spoiled selfish generation of people overall. You travel overseas and you see and understand that in an even greater way!

[rgcraig]

It would be nice. :tiphat

Hopefully everyone knows I really enjoy this forum. I have made great friendships here. It just drives me batty when the entire board is full of anti-ministry threads. It seems to happen every now and again.

FOUL!!!! :ignore

[Felicity]

I believe the center position on AFF moves from day to day depending on which posters are present. I hope you notice that I never AMEN a post criticising the UPC or it's people. As a child growing up in a UPC pastor's home, I have a great respect for those that choose to follow that calling.

I have an even greater respect for those that are not in their ministry to get rich. I appears that you have your priorities in order. I pray that one day your church is blessed enough to totally support you. :)Not every pastor who is supported by their church is out to get rich! Just wanted to make that point. I know you don't think that either but just wanted to make the point.

We've never taken all of what we're entitled to - never. And even now although we're in a church that is financially fairly wealthy and that I feel strongly is not providing well enough for the pastor, my husband won't make an issue of it. :ignore

I'd like to have a chance to talk to the board! Hehe. :grampa

[Nahum]

FOUL!!!! :ignore

HAHAHA!!!!

I'm sorry Renda. I retract that statement.

You are awesome! :tiphat :tiphat :tiphat

[Nahum]

Well lets see, I've insulted a lot of posters, made others mad, and now Renda is crying FOUL!!!. My work here is done. :toofunny :toofunny

[StillStanding]

Not every pastor who is supported by their church is out to get rich! Just wanted to make that point. I know you don't think that either but just wanted to make the point.

We've never taken all of what we're entitled to - never. And even now although we're in a church that is financially fairly wealthy and that I feel strongly is not providing well enough for the pastor, my husband won't make an issue of it. :ignore

I'd like to have a chance to talk to the board! Hehe. :grampa

hahaha I know where you're coming from, Felicity! :)

If the church can afford it, I believe the pastor should live at the same level as the members. If you happen to pastor a wealthy church, then PRAISE GOD! :happydance

[rgcraig]

Well lets see, I've insulted a lot of posters, made others mad, and now Renda is crying FOUL!!!. My work here is done. :toofunny :toofunny

:happydance You should see me in the striped shirt!

[Nahum]

:happydance You should see me in the striped shirt!


HAHA!!!

Stripped, or striped? There is a big difference, and that's the naked truth. :slaphappy

[Felicity]

hahaha I know where you're coming from, Felicity! :)

If the church can afford it, I believe the pastor should live at the same level as the members. If you happen to pastor a wealthy church, then PRAISE GOD! :happydanceWe have a bunch of people whose income would be in the 6 digit (zeroes) category. Then we have the poor and the middle income but overall I would say the majority of people's income would exceed ours.

Makes me downright carnal some days. I really need to pray through. LOL :D

[rgcraig]

HAHA!!!

Stripped, or striped? There is a big difference, and that's the naked truth. :slaphappy

Oh MY!!!!!:igotit I corrected.......bwaahhhh - I can't believe I did that!

[Margies3]

Why do people continue to be a part of something they hate? Isn't this level of self-loathing unhealthy and harmful to the groups they are a part of? It really slays me that people identify themselves as Apostolic Pentecostals and then rip and shred the church or organization they are a part of to bits.

I can understand that we all have some level of differences of opinion.
That's cool.

But when your complaints elevate to an incessant whine regarding everything in your church and organization - what's the point? Why not just leave?

Lately AFF has turned into one big "I hate my heritage" concert. It's getting very old, very fast. People ripping on their pastors, their bylaws, their parents beliefs, their church's standards, their church's lack of standards.

Then we have the whole "I should get paid to sing in the choir" crowd. Ridiculous! Add to that the assertion that if you give LITERALLY one penny in a church's offering you are automatically a legal member and can sue the church to get your way about anything. INSANE!!!!!!!!

Is there a motive behind all this whining? Is there a move to reduce the authority of the ministry to rubble? Is there an "I will ascend" spirit involved in all of this moaning and groaning?

I think we all know the answer............... The answer is yes!!!!!!!!
A thousand times yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems very few want to FOLLOW Jesus and his ministers anywhere. Instead, they want a Jesus, and a pastor, and a church, that will cowtow to every little self-willed whim that catches their fancy.

What the church needs is a revival of sacrifice. We are lazy, and fat, and drunk, on the pleasures of this world. You need to quit trying to push your agenda, railroading your pastor, and bartering with God.

How about a spirit of meekness and service instead? Would God that someone would FOR ONCE IN THEIR MISERABLE LIVES try their best to support their pastor and his family instead of bashing their heads up against the wall every time they do something you disagree with.

I think the pendulum swings to each extreme here on AFF.

For a while we had alot of threads praising God, telling what God had done, people who were happy to know the Lord, etc.
And a number of people complaining that they wanted some action! That things were too sweet.

So the pendulum took a swing. Now you've got people complaining, whining, arguing, etc.
And now we want some of the praise threads back.

My experience tells me to just hang on a bit. They'll be back. This really is a loving group of peole. They love God and they love each other. So every now and then, we have to express that.

[rgcraig]

PP

Maybe you should contribute more in the Deep Waters area of the forum!

Have you visited there?

[Nahum]

PP

Maybe you should contribute more in the Deep Waters area of the forum!

Have you visited there?

You know, I tried that when were still on the original AFF.

Nobody would go to that area. It seems this forum is more for fellowship and news than theological discussion. That's cool.

I post on Bibletalk. It is more theologically based. I also post on the Puritan mind forum.

AFF is still my favorite though.

[rgcraig]

You know, I tried that when were still on the original AFF.

Nobody would go to that area. It seems this forum is more for fellowship and news than theological discussion. That's cool.

I post on Bibletalk. It is more theologically based. I also post on the Puritan mind forum.

AFF is still my favorite though.

Well, stop your whining then!!!!!!! :aaa

[CC1]

Why do people continue to be a part of something they hate? Isn't this level of self-loathing unhealthy and harmful to the groups they are a part of? It really slays me that people identify themselves as Apostolic Pentecostals and then rip and shred the church or organization they are a part of to bits.

I can understand that we all have some level of differences of opinion.
That's cool.

But when your complaints elevate to an incessant whine regarding everything in your church and organization - what's the point? Why not just leave?

Lately AFF has turned into one big "I hate my heritage" concert. It's getting very old, very fast. People ripping on their pastors, their bylaws, their parents beliefs, their church's standards, their church's lack of standards.

Then we have the whole "I should get paid to sing in the choir" crowd. Ridiculous! Add to that the assertion that if you give LITERALLY one penny in a church's offering you are automatically a legal member and can sue the church to get your way about anything. INSANE!!!!!!!!

Is there a motive behind all this whining? Is there a move to reduce the authority of the ministry to rubble? Is there an "I will ascend" spirit involved in all of this moaning and groaning?

I think we all know the answer............... The answer is yes!!!!!!!!
A thousand times yes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It seems very few want to FOLLOW Jesus and his ministers anywhere. Instead, they want a Jesus, and a pastor, and a church, that will cowtow to every little self-willed whim that catches their fancy.

What the church needs is a revival of sacrifice. We are lazy, and fat, and drunk, on the pleasures of this world. You need to quit trying to push your agenda, railroading your pastor, and bartering with God.

How about a spirit of meekness and service instead? Would God that someone would FOR ONCE IN THEIR MISERABLE LIVES try their best to support their pastor and his family instead of bashing their heads up against the wall every time they do something you disagree with.

Have not had time to read this thread yet but I had to chuckle out loud at this initial post complaining about complaining!

[Nahum]

Well, stop your whining then!!!!!!! :aaa

I will whine if I want to!!!!!!!!

You let everyone else whine, why can't I? :toofunny

[Nahum]

Have not had time to read this thread yet but I had to chuckle out loud at this initial post complaining about complaining!

I just hate it when the pot calls the kettle black.

[rgcraig]

I will whine if I want to!!!!!!!!

You let everyone else whine, why can't I? :toofunny
It's that high pitched shriek that makes yours stand out! :neener

[Barb]

Well, stop your whining then!!!!!!! :aaa

I will whine if I want to!!!!!!!!

You let everyone else whine, why can't I? :toofunny

It's his party and he'll whine if he wants to...whine if he wants to...:musicnotes

[Nahum]

It's that high pitched shriek that makes yours stand out! :neener

I stand by every high-pitched shriek I made in my original post, thank you very much! :nah

[SDG]

I stand by every high-pitched shriek I made in my original post, thank you very much! :nah

You worry me sometimes, PP. Way TOO MOODY.

[CC1]

You worry me sometimes, PP. Way TOO MOODY.

Perhaps it is "that time of the month"?:slaphappy

[Barb]

Perhaps it is "that time of the month"?:slaphappy

:thwak

[CC1]

:thwak


Oh no!!!! Notyou too!!!!:toofunny

[Felicity]

Oh no!!!! Notyou too!!!!:toofunnyROFL! :killinme

[Carpenter]

ROFL! :killinme

Depends on how long he has been married. It has been said that after a period of time men begin to experience the same symptoms as their wives!!!!!! GOLBLASTED!!!