Sex offenders- prison for volunteering in church?

[James Griffin]

06/27/2008
The Southern Center for Human Rights filed a motion in U.S. District Court this week to strike down a Georgia provision that forbids sex offenders from volunteering in churches.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported that the motion argues based on the grounds that the law “criminalizes fundamental religious activity.” Things sex offenders cannot do include singing in church choirs or cooking in church kitchens. The provision, though it’s been approved by the state legislature and governor, will not become law until July 1, or Tuesday of next week.

Sarah Geraghty, lawyer for the human rights group, concedes to reporters that it’s inappropriate for most sex offenders from having contact with children. But, she argues, that shouldn’t preclude them from adult-only activities, and it shouldn’t keep them away from the rehabilitative services that churches can offer.

The provision has a very punitive component, as well. Any convicted sex offender caught working or volunteering at a church can be sentenced to 10 to 30 years in prison.

Georgia Senate President pro tem Eric Johnson supports the provision and said that law would not prohibit sex offenders’ right to attend worship services. It would, however, limit their ability to get heavily involved with a church.

Jackie Taylor, communications director for Cascade Hills Church in Columbus, Ga., said that her church welcomes sex offenders to church but absolutely keeps them away from where children are likely to be, which is on a different floor of their building from the sanctuary. Anyone who wants to work with children has to submit to a background check. However, as far as to whether or not sex offenders can be active as volunteers in adult-only ministries, Taylor says the church doesn’t have an explicit policy.

“We tend to err on the side of grace, but we definitely don’t want to endanger anyone,” she said. She added that all of the church’s ministries are handled through pastoral care and that counselors screen volunteers to make sure they are safe.

The debate is the latest in a string of litigation in Georgia following the state’s 2006 law that laid down firm restrictions on where sex offenders could work and live. In 2007, the Georgia Supreme Court struck down a law that prohibited registered sex offenders from living within 1,000 feet of “places where children congregate” because the wording was too vague and broad.

Churches that are faced with a sex-offender dilemma might consider consulting lawyers and law enforcement about the laws in that state and could also seek more input and advice from church leaders who have dealt with these problems before.

http://www.churchsolutionsmag.com/ho...w-georgia.html

[Cindy]

I am trying really hard to care about sex offenders rights, but I am not there yet. Our churches I feel should be a sanctuary from the world, but they are not as we know. And as christians we should forgive and help even criminals, easier said than done.

[James Griffin]

06/27/2008

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported that the motion argues based on the grounds that the law “criminalizes fundamental religious activity.” Things sex offenders cannot do include singing in church choirs or cooking in church kitchens.


The provision has a very punitive component, as well. Any convicted sex offender caught working or volunteering at a church can be sentenced to 10 to 30 years in prison.




.

[Carpenter]

I grew up with this wonderful gal who dated this guy, good looking, tall dark, handsome, great personality, but who had spent the past 10 or so years in prison. He grew up in a Christian home, and his dad was a prominant minister in that organization.

At any rate, they fell in love, she got the luggage, and he was gone. I think he is back in prison.

This is a difficult topic to be sure. I wouldn't allow my daughter to date someone like that. I know forgiveness, grace, and all that, but wow, been there saw that done.

[Esther]

Not allowing singing in the choir is a bit much IMO!

[James Griffin]

Not allowing singing in the choir is a bit much IMO!

Or help in the church soup kitchen...

[Cindy]

James what is the best predictor of future behaviors?

[James Griffin]

James what is the best predictor of future behaviors?

Honestly Cindy I am not sure there is one.

I do know that making it impossible to serve God in a church cannot be the answer.

No one will propose teaching Sunday School would be appropriate but taking up the offering, singing in the choir, mowing the grass, serving in a soup kitchen are illegal?

No exceptions.

Repent get married, live for God, serve the community for 20 years after getting being registered and we will throw you in jail for 30 years for singing in the choir?

[Cindy]

Honestly Cindy I am not sure there is one.

I do know that making it impossible to serve God in a church cannot be the answer.

No one will propose teaching Sunday School would be appropriate but taking up the offering, singing in the choir, mowing the grass, serving in a soup kitchen are illegal?

No exceptions.

Repent get married, live for God, serve the community for 20 years after getting being registered and we will throw you in jail for 30 years for singing in the choir?

I do know we have to be on guard even in churches. This is one of the places they are able to intigrate themselves with people to choose their victims. If they have been registered that long with no deviant behavior maybe, but most rapists go a long time without being caught, and you know this. This is not only about child predators, it includes all people that can become victims. I don't think this is the best thought out law though. I do have a problem with not letting them serve in the kitchen, I do have a problem with them being in a choir though. Choir lofts are too close for comfort sometimes.

[Cindy]

I do have pretty much the same reasoning for thieves. I would not want them taking up the offering or have access to money or valuables.

[James Griffin]

I do know we have to be on guard even in churches. This is one of the places they are able to intigrate themselves with people to choose their victims. If they have been registered that long with no deviant behavior maybe, but most rapists go a long time without being caught, and you know this. This is not only about child predators, it includes all people that can become victims. I don't think this is the best thought out law though. I do have a problem with not letting them serve in the kitchen, I do have a problem with them being in a choir though. Choir lofts are too close for comfort sometimes.

Food for thought, the MAJORITY of those convicted of committing crimes against children had no prior convictions of such assaults.

[Cindy]

Food for thought, the MAJORITY of those convicted of committing crimes against children had no prior convictions of such assaults.

I understand they have no prior convictions, but many have had just not been caught the first time or two. But that is true for a lot of crimes, not just sex crimes. And then of course we have our revolving door of justice.

[SDG]

We are reaching epic proportions in creating a culture that does not believe in compassion or restoration .... or even making the punishment fit the crime .....this is reaching critical mass ....

I was accused last week of not being a conservative politically because I stand by the Supreme Court decision to keep precedence and decency by not executing a child rapist that has not also committed murder ...

Yet what is going on here????

The one thing that can get these folks lives together being involved and committed to a local church and now the gov't wants to tell Churches these offenders can't even sing in the choir? It's sheer madness.

This decision from the Georgia legislature shows that we are now seeing the equivalent of India's Untouchables and the leper colonies of biblical times ... of course the reasons for their ostracizing are different but the hate behind it is not ....

As a society we need to check ourselves as to whether we are going to move towards fascism in the name of this hot button issue ...

Look these offenders have committed atrocities and heinous acts ... that repulse and disgust this poster ... but let's get a grip between protecting the lives of the innocent and seeking to dehumanize even the worst among us.

The Church has the answer to this problem and now our hands are tied ....???

[Cindy]

When you have not been personally touched by these kinds of crimes it is really easy to forgive and forget I guess. Or if it has not happened to your children or close family members. If not it is easier said than done. And lets not forget the families of the criminals. They are affected also.

So lets say you decide to let them come into your church, do you inform everyone of their pasts or just not say anything? And then if God forbid they rape someone or molest a child what do you say then? What if it is your wife, daughter, sister, mother, or son......?

[Rhoni]

I truly believe in grace and mercy but I do think safeguards should be put in place in regard to sex offenders. I think that we all pay for the sins we have committed...it is a Biblical principle. The end result is salvation. Before the end though...there are lives to live, and lives to protect.

Many sex offenders find a hiding place as well as a fertile field to continue their deviant behavior within our churches. God calls us to be harmless as doves but as wise as serpents. When we pray for knowledge and wisdom we are also told to pray for understanding.

Sex offenders do not limit themselves to children, but to those who are of a pure heart and mind. Many an Apostolic female has fallen prey to a sexual predator out of their pure heart, motives, and naivete.

Sexual predators should not be allowed ot participate in any ministry except working with offenders with the same issues. This is about accountability and safety.

This is my opinion and not that of the management.

Blessings, Rhoni

[SDG]

When you have not been personally touched by these kinds of crimes it is really easy to forgive and forget I guess. Or if it has not happened to your children or close family members. If not it is easier said than done. And lets not forget the families of the criminals. They are affected also.

So lets say you decide to let them come into your church, do you inform everyone of their pasts or just not say anything? And then if God forbid they rape someone or molest a child what do you say then? What if it is your wife, daughter, sister, mother, or son......?

Cindy I would be repulsed if this happened to my daughter at 2, 12 or 22 or 32 ... I know that I would be fuming and seeking justice ....

However we need to keep in mind that there are many crimes that affect us greatly .... including the proliferation of drugs, etc.

You do understand that many people can be labeled as a sexual offender for not molesting a child ...

and yet according to this law they can't get involved in a Church at all ...

I'm all for protecting children from a sexual offender who is in contact w/ them like a Sunday School teacher... but it's a lack of common sense that this person can't cook in the kitchen at church?

Hello???

That's not common sense.

It's a fact that those who are involved in church activities are the one's who become committed to the things of God ....

Balance.

[MissBrattified]

DA, it's food for thought. As a mother of 3 children, I can tend to be extreme on this issue, BUT...I was thinking as I read through the thread, how do missionaries respond? Like those in Africa who may convert militants who have murdered (slaughtered), tortured and raped MANY people? If we were to ask, say, Nona Freeman, I have a feeling she would shake hands with, pray for, and witness to anyone, no matter what evil deeds they may have committed.

It goes back to something that was said on the thread about Christian Garrett--how much do we underestimate the power of God to change a life? It seems like we don't even trust Him to completely transform people anymore.

I understand the legal issues, and I thoroughly understand (and concur with) the concept of protecting our children, but on the other hand, a church is a place for sinners. Healthy people don't need a doctor.

I also think it's a frightening thing for the state to dictate who can do what within a church. That's a bit too much government control mixing into church matters, IMO. Are they going to forbid ex-prostitutes from sitting next to men? Or thieves, perhaps, must stay at least 20 ft. from ladies' purses?

Western culture, for all its liberal bents, is conversely puritanical and unforgiving. (And I'm including myself in that description.) We need to be careful not to allow that to taint the purpose of the church, which is to reach out to the LOST, regardless of the nature of their sins.

[Rhoni]

When you have not been personally touched by these kinds of crimes it is really easy to forgive and forget I guess. Or if it has not happened to your children or close family members. If not it is easier said than done. And lets not forget the families of the criminals. They are affected also.

So lets say you decide to let them come into your church, do you inform everyone of their pasts or just not say anything? And then if God forbid they rape someone or molest a child what do you say then? What if it is your wife, daughter, sister, mother, or son......?


Background checks should be done on anyone in church leadership no matter what or how humble the position. Previous pastors should be questioned as to the integrity of the person they are allowing into their church leadership. There are many sexual predators who have not been charged or the charges stuck in a criminal court record but they are guilty just the same.

Should they be forgiven? Absolutely. Should they be trusted? Not without safeguards over time. Should they feel comfortable in our assemblies? Yes, but they should also know that they are being watched and there are rules to follow. If they are indeed repentent they will understand why this is being done. It is those who are not repentant who want unconditional accessibility, and that is because they are looking for their next victim.

Pray with your eyes wide open and your spiritual senses open to know the spirits as they work in your midst.

I will say that at times, many leadership use people with such a past because in doing so they have automatic "Yes" people who will do their bidding for this special grace. This is not Christlike either. It is spiritual blackmail.

Blessings, Rhoni

[MissBrattified]

You do understand that many people can be labeled as a sexual offender for not molesting a child ...

and yet according to this law they can't get involved in a Church at all ...

This is a point that bothers me. You can get into the sexual database for "indecent exposure", which can be as benign as peeing in a park.

I'm all for protecting children from a sexual offender who is in contact w/ them like a Sunday School ... but it's a lack of common sense that this person can't cook in the kitchen at church?

Hello???

That's not common sense.

It's a fact that those who are involve in church activities are the one's who become committed to the things of God ....
Balance.

The idea of having a pedophile in the church (e.g., around my children) is a frightening thought to me.

[SDG]

1st Corinthians 6, verses 9, 10, and this time 11. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Do we believe in this .... or not ....???? Do we believe in the blood?

[SDG]

This is a point that bothers me. You can get into the sexual database for "indecent exposure", which can be as benign as peeing in a park.

Imagine having this label and registered for life as a sexual offender ... and now you can't get involved in your local church for peeing in the park.

[Rhoni]

DA, it's food for thought. As a mother of 3 children, I can tend to be extreme on this issue, BUT...I was thinking as I read through the thread, how do missionaries respond? Like those in Africa who may convert militants who have murdered (slaughtered), tortured and raped MANY people? If we were to ask, say, Nona Freeman, I have a feeling she would shake hands with, pray for, and witness to anyone, no matter what evil deeds they may have committed.

It goes back to something that was said on the thread about Christian Garrett--how much do we underestimate the power of God to change a life? It seems like we don't even trust Him to completely transform people anymore.

I understand the legal issues, and I thoroughly understand (and concur with) the concept of protecting our children, but on the other hand, a church is a place for sinners. Healthy people don't need a doctor.

I also think it's a frightening thing for the state to dictate who can do what within a church. That's a bit too much government control mixing into church matters, IMO. Are they going to forbid ex-prostitutes from sitting next to men? Or thieves, perhaps, must stay at least 20 ft. from ladies' purses?

Western culture, for all its liberal bents, is conversely puritanical and unforgiving. (And I'm including myself in that description.) We need to be careful not to allow that to taint the purpose of the church, which is to reach out to the LOST, regardless of the nature of their sins.


I'd have to disagree. The lost need saved and we need to show compassion and forgiveness but we do not have to be naive. Of many other cultures, our western culture is the most backward and lenient as to these offenders. Many people hold to your views but would be the first to backstab a homosexual.

[Rhoni]

Imagine having this label and registered for life as a sexual offender ... and now you can't get involved in your local church.

Imagine getting away with it and doing it again, and again, and again.

[SDG]

DA, it's food for thought. As a mother of 3 children, I can tend to be extreme on this issue, BUT...I was thinking as I read through the thread, how do missionaries respond? Like those in Africa who may convert militants who have murdered (slaughtered), tortured and raped MANY people? If we were to ask, say, Nona Freeman, I have a feeling she would shake hands with, pray for, and witness to anyone, no matter what evil deeds they may have committed.

It goes back to something that was said on the thread about Christian Garrett--how much do we underestimate the power of God to change a life? It seems like we don't even trust Him to completely transform people anymore.

I understand the legal issues, and I thoroughly understand (and concur with) the concept of protecting our children, but on the other hand, a church is a place for sinners. Healthy people don't need a doctor.

I also think it's a frightening thing for the state to dictate who can do what within a church. That's a bit too much government control mixing into church matters, IMO. Are they going to forbid ex-prostitutes from sitting next to men? Or thieves, perhaps, must stay at least 20 ft. from ladies' purses?

Western culture, for all its liberal bents, is conversely puritanical and unforgiving. (And I'm including myself in that description.) We need to be careful not to allow that to taint the purpose of the church, which is to reach out to the LOST, regardless of the nature of their sins.

More common sense and Christian compassion from Lady B.

Churches are supposed to be the trauma centers not the source of added trauma.

Do we believe this Gospel or what?

[SDG]

Imagine getting away with it and doing it again, and again, and again.

Imagine urinating in the park ... again ... again ...?

[Rhoni]

Imagine urinating in the park ... again ... again ...?

Yes, and imagine ministers peeping in windows, ministry leaders soliciting sex in bathrooms, ministers seducing young women and men in their offices, sunday school teachers molesting children in restrooms, ect.

Exposing oneself in public gets to be a habit and there are many diagnosises for such behavior.

[Rhoni]

More common sense and Christian compassion from Lady B.

Churches are supposed to be the trauma centers not the source of added trauma.

Do we believe this Gospel or what?

Heaven forbid we traumatize a sexual predator in our midst.:reaction

[SDG]

Yes, and imagine ministers peeping in windows, ministry leaders soliciting sex in bathrooms, ministers seducing young women and men in their offices, sunday school teachers molesting children in restrooms, ect.

Exposing oneself in public gets to be a habit and there are many diagnosises for such behavior.

Is this just about men in position to you ... are you not able to compartmentalize that this law does not just target blatant molesters?

That not all sexual offenders are men ...???

Is there a distinction between leaders, teachers and singing in the choir?

That's what this specific law is now seeking to target anyone w/ this on their rap sheet for any reason cannot get involved in their local church ...at all.

Do you not see the precedent this sets? How it is more gov't intervention in the church?

Rhonda you are bright ... there's layers to this.

I have peed in a wooded area... what's my diagnosis? Sheesh.

It's hard to defend folks w/ this label ... but I got to believe they are among the least of these too.

[MissBrattified]

I'd have to disagree. The lost need saved and we need to show compassion and forgiveness but we do not have to be naive. Of many other cultures, our western culture is the most backward and lenient as to these offenders. Many people hold to your views but would be the first to backstab a homosexual.

What exactly are you disagreeing with? You bolded the part about the church needing to focus on winning the lost. LOL!!!

I don't want a pedophile around my children either--but I do acknowledge God's power to change a person, including a pedophile...OR a homosexual. :)

[Rhoni]

What exactly are you disagreeing with? You bolded the part about the church needing to focus on winning the lost. LOL!!!

I don't want a pedophile around my children either--but I do acknowledge God's power to change a person, including a pedophile...OR a homosexual. :)

It was about unconditional acceptance of sexual offenders in our churches without safeguards. I am sorry if you thought I meant that our churches were not to reach out to sinners no matter what the sin.

Daniel is right about my 'issues'...I have family members who were molested within churches; i.e., Apostolic boy scout troops, church camp, during local services, ect. If you check statistics...93% of sexual predators are men although there are approx 7% that are females. I do not believe all men are sexual deviants, nor do I believe all women to be holy and righteous. Things are what they are...and yes, some of us were - but are no longer because of the grace of God.

You will find many sex offenders that are not repentant and continue to do the deed under the shelter of our ideas of grace and mercy. We need wisdom. I need wisdom.

Blessings, Rhoni

[SDG]

Jim does this law also prohibit church involvement for any type of sexual offender ... I mean someone who does not hurt a child ... but rather commits a crime against another adult .... or is convicted for public indecency?

[MissBrattified]

It was about unconditional acceptance of sexual offenders in our churches without safeguards. I am sorry if you thought I meant that our churches were not to reach out to sinners no matter what the sin.

I didn't say anything about unconditional acceptance of sexual offenders in our churches without safeguards. I certainly intend to protect my children. However, I also recognize that the church needs to reach out to anyone who is lost, no matter what the sin.

Daniel is right about my 'issues'...I have family members who were molested within churches; i.e., Apostolic boy scout troops, church camp, during local services, ect. If you check statistics...93% of sexual predators are men although there are approx 7% that are females. I do not believe all men are sexual deviants, nor do I believe all women to be holy and righteous. Things are what they are...and yes, some of us were - but are no longer because of the grace of God.

You will find many sex offenders that are not repentant and continue to do the deed under the shelter of our ideas of grace and mercy. We need wisdom. I need wisdom.

I understand that to be a fact, and like I stated earlier, I usually take an extreme position on this matter. I'm just trying to temper my...temper...a little better than I usually do.

I don't know if you recall, but last year, a pastor friend of my parents (whose daughter I practically grew up with) was charged with child molestation--in my opinion, that pastor should never be around a child again--ever--under any circumstances. Maybe it seems different to me, because he was a Christian. I tend to have less sympathy for the Saved People who commit such crimes. I don't know if that's justified, or if its a weakness I need God to help me with.

What I'm trying to say is--as a parent, I fully understand the needed protection, and the anger that wells up in me when I find out someone has harmed a child in any way. I'm just not sure that the right thing to DO with that anger is to ostracize a repentant sinner.

[RandyWayne]

What if the law simply stated that all churches would be required to disclose the perps background to the whole congregation? And from there, allow them (the church) to do what they think is best?

[Subdued]

If they are indeed repentent they will understand why this is being done. It is those who are not repentant who want unconditional accessibility, and that is because they are looking for their next victim.

Pray with your eyes wide open and your spiritual senses open to know the spirits as they work in your midst.

I completely agree.

Also, there are consequences to sin... some consequences are far reaching & long lasting -- even though they be forgiven & restored.

Just as a murderer has to spend many years, even life, in prison - there are consequences. Some of these murders become Christians while in prison; yet they must still suffer the consequences in life, here on earth.

Yes, God restores! Their eternity can be secure - they can receive salvation - Praise God for that. But again, HERE, we have to live with the consequences of our actions.

[SDG]

A woman bares her chest at Mardis Gras or commits a sexual act in public with a consenting adult.... and was arrested for indecent exposure, lewdness, etc. ... 30 years ago ... and is a registered as a sex offender for life.

She should no longer be allowed to get involved in fundamental church activities ... like singing in the choir?

Part of the Christian walk is to be involved in your local church ... Christ even commands good works from us ...

Now we as a Church .... I hear us consenting and crying for the spiritual death of this repentant woman?

All she can do is petrify on a pew?

No ... you can't help distribute food to the homeless because you need to pay for what you did!!!!

Something stinks in the state of Denmark.

I don't think we believe in this Good News.

Lord, help us.

[OneAccord]

James what is the best predictor of future behaviors?

I don't know that there are any definite predictors of future behavior or not. But... past behavior is often used to predict future behavior. However, this isn't entirely accurate, but... given the serious of the situation, it may be all we have.

According to national statistics a sex offender WILL reoffend. That is according to statistics. In the real world, however, this is no more true than saying all recovering alcoholic will eventually return to drink. Yes...it happens. But not always. Statistically, sex offenders reoffend, but that isn't always true on the individual level. A sex offender who has lived and worked in the community for say, 20 years without a repeat offense is very unlikely to reoffend. Statistics are as true for sex offenders as they are for drug addicts and alcoholics... if they maintain a offense free lifestyle for 5 or more years, the likelihood of reoffending (or returning to drugs/alcohol) lessens. If they remain offense free for 10 years, the "re-offense curve" drops almost to zero. The first 5 years after release from incarceration is the most critical time for recovering offenders... and for recovering addicts. In fact, sex offenses are often propelled by the same mechanism that causes drug and/or alcolol addiction. The difference is that drug/alcohol addiction has the element of chemical dependency attached to it. In biblical terms, the same "demon of lust" that drives the alcoholic also drives the sex offender.

There are a couple of words I placed in bold print that needs to be addressed: IF and ALMOST. Those are critical words. And because the safety of women and children (in the case of sex offenders) are most important, great care should be taken in allowing sex offenders to take ANY position in a church where there exists the sex offenders greatest need: OPPORTUNITY. With trust, with leadership, comes OPPORTUNITY. And that is where I, if a pastor of a church, would take great care in allowing a recovering sex offender to serve in any area of ministry or function that provides opportunity. I would not allow a sex offender to participate in a church service (other than repentance, baptism, recieving the Holy Ghost, prayer, etc) unless he (or she) has successfully completed an intense sex offender program. Meetings with the recovering offender would be frequent (no less than once a month) and vists to his or her home would be often and unanounced. Certain rules would be put into effect and would be strictly observed. NO one on one contact with potential victims. Contact would be minimal and closely monitored. Theres much more, but, this will do for purposes of this conversation.

Two more things. I said:

But... past behavior is often used to predict future behavior..
PRESENT behavior, however is a better indicator. . What a person is doing NOW is a pretty good indicator of what he will to tomorrow. The Christian community walks a fine line between judging a person for what he WAS and what He IS presently.
Paul learned that after his conversion when he found those that were suspect of him for his past behaviors. If we are to judge at all, we should judge a person for what he is is NOW... not for what he was 10 or 20 years ago.

The operative word in all that I have written here is RECOVERING as in "Recovering alcoholic" or "Recovering sex offender". As much as we are repulsed by these types of offenses, we have to bear in mind the duty of a minister: " 2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. We are even repulsed by the following statement but, it is true in every sense of the word: Sex offenders are victims of the same spirit that propelled them to commit their crimes. They need prayer, they need deliverance, and they need compassion and they need restoration. That isn't to say they should be given complete trust and be given a place of leadership. A RECOVERING addict wil do all within his power to avoid what is now his greatest threat: OPPORTUNITY. As a recovering alcoholic avoids the opportunity to drink, (bars, friends who drink) so will a recovering sex offender avoid situations where opprtunities to reoffend exists (and where accusations can be made). A "recovering" sex offenders who shows an inordinate interest in youth programs and activities is NOT on the road to recovery.

Well, those are the obeservations of one sitting way up high in the peanut gallery.

[Rhoni]

A woman bares her chest at Mardis Gras or commits a sexual act in public with a consenting adult.... and was arrested for indecent exposure, lewdness, etc. ... 30 years ago ... and is a registered as a sex offender for life.

She should no longer be allowed to get involved in fundamental church activities ... like singing in the choir?

Part of the Christian walk is to be involved in your local church ... Christ even commands good works from us ...

Now we as a Church .... I hear us consenting and crying for the spiritual death of this repentant woman?

All she can do is petrify on a pew?

No ... you can't help distribute food to the homeless because you need to pay for what you did!!!!

Something stinks in the state of Denmark.

I don't think we believe in this Good News.

Lord, help us.

Daniel,

It is your normal reaction/over-reaction to go for the exception and not the rule.

I think it very strange that we have people who work within our churches who feed and clothe the homeless but won't do it for family members because they think they should stop drinking, get a job, or rebuke mental illness. The fact of the matter is that the majority of the homeless population are dually diangnosed mentally ill, substance abusers, or those who make very poor financial decisons.

It is not that we are saying not to have grace and mercy on sinners...we are all aware we are all sinners and my laundry list is quite extensive itself. We all need the mercy and grace of God.

Just like the book of Romans tells us that that the grace of God does not give us license to sin, it would also tell us to try the spirits to see if they are of God or not. It also tells us to know them which labor among us.

Those quilty of being a sexual predator of any kind should not be publiclly exposed and humiliated in order to be accepted in our churches, but should be know of leadership with safeguards put in place that, though not obvious to all, are effective and rigid.

I know you say what you do to get reactions...well you have mine.

Blessings, Rhoni

[SDG]

I would not allow a sex offender to participate in a church service (other than repentance, baptism, recieving the Holy Ghost, prayer, etc) unless he (or she) has successfully completed an intense sex offender program.This law would not allow you this condition ....i.e. intervention ... you would not be allowed to let them even collect the offering even after going through such a program.

Despite the nature of the sexual offense or decades removed.

[MissBrattified]

Good post, OA.

What if a burglar breaks into our home? Will we protect our home and children with lethal force? Of course! But if the burglar falls to his knees mid-crime and begs for mercy and forgiveness...should we shoot him anyway?

[chosenbyone]

I would have to side with DA on this issue. If Christ has forgiven us from our sins, would we want those sins to prevent us from serving our God and local assembly?

This new law seemed to be so far reaching that it would ensnare those that made mistakes when they were a teenager (see below). How would you feel if your child had a call to preach the gospel, but couldn't because he made a poor decision to have consensual sex with a girl when he was younger?

Personally, I have trouble with anyone who would abuse a child and I wondered what I would do if someone had molested one of my nieces or nephew? However, I strongly believe if someone has been delivered and were filled with the Holy Ghost then they should be allowed to serve the Lord and their church. The only stipulation that I would be in favor of would be that the pastor be informed if there was a charge that involved molestation, rape or any violent offense.

"In addition to imposing residency and employment restrictions, Georgia's sex offender law will now criminalize religious practice," said Sara Totonchi, SCHR public policy director. "Specifically, the statute prohibits all 15,700 people on the registry from 'volunteering' at a church. Activities such as singing in an adult church choir, looking up passages for a pastor in Bible study, preparing for revivals and prayer vigils, or cooking meals in a church kitchen will now be considered criminal activity punishable by 10-30 years in prison.

"The law makes no exception for anyone -- even people who are on the registry for having consensual sex as teenagers. The new law poses an additional complication: pastors, reverends and other spiritual leaders could be charged with accessory to a crime for encouraging people on the registry to actively participate in the life of the church
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/columnists/kaffie_sledge/story/356215.html

[Rhoni]

I don't know that there are any definite predictors of future behavior or not. But... past behavior is often used to predict future behavior. However, this isn't entirely accurate, but... given the serious of the situation, it may be all we have.

According to national statistics a sex offender WILL reoffend. That is according to statistics. In the real world, however, this is no more true than saying all recovering alcoholic will eventually return to drink. Yes...it happens. But not always. Statistically, sex offenders reoffend, but that isn't always true on the individual level. A sex offender who has lived and worked in the community for say, 20 years without a repeat offense is very unlikely to reoffend. Statistics are as true for sex offenders as they are for drug addicts and alcoholics... if they maintain a offense free lifestyle for 5 or more years, the likelihood of reoffending (or returning to drugs/alcohol) lessens. If they remain offense free for 10 years, the "re-offense curve" drops almost to zero. The first 5 years after release from incarceration is the most critical time for recovering offenders... and for recovering addicts. In fact, sex offenses are often propelled by the same mechanism that causes drug and/or alcolol addiction. The difference is that drug/alcohol addiction has the element of chemical dependency attached to it. In biblical terms, the same "demon of lust" that drives the alcoholic also drives the sex offender.

There are a couple of words I placed in bold print that needs to be addressed: IF and ALMOST. Those are critical words. And because the safety of women and children (in the case of sex offenders) are most important, great care should be taken in allowing sex offenders to take ANY position in a church where there exists the sex offenders greatest need: OPPORTUNITY. With trust, with leadership, comes OPPORTUNITY. And that is where I, if a pastor of a church, would take great care in allowing a recovering sex offender to serve in any area of ministry or function that provides opportunity. I would not allow a sex offender to participate in a church service (other than repentance, baptism, recieving the Holy Ghost, prayer, etc) unless he (or she) has successfully completed an intense sex offender program. Meetings with the recovering offender would be frequent (no less than once a month) and vists to his or her home would be often and unanounced. Certain rules would be put into effect and would be strictly observed. NO one on one contact with potential victims. Contact would be minimal and closely monitored. Theres much more, but, this will do for purposes of this conversation.

Two more things. I said:

.
PRESENT behavior, however is a better indicator. . What a person is doing NOW is a pretty good indicator of what he will to tomorrow. The Christian community walks a fine line between judging a person for what he WAS and what He IS presently.
Paul learned that after his conversion when he found those that were suspect of him for his past behaviors. If we are to judge at all, we should judge a person for what he is is NOW... not for what he was 10 or 20 years ago.

The operative word in all that I have written here is RECOVERING as in "Recovering alcoholic" or "Recovering sex offender". As much as we are repulsed by these types of offenses, we have to bear in mind the duty of a minister: " 2Ti 2:26 And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. We are even repulsed by the following statement but, it is true in every sense of the word: Sex offenders are victims of the same spirit that propelled them to commit their crimes. They need prayer, they need deliverance, and they need compassion and they need restoration. That isn't to say they should be given complete trust and be given a place of leadership. A RECOVERING addict wil do all within his power to avoid what is now his greatest threat: OPPORTUNITY. As a recovering alcoholic avoids the opportunity to drink, (bars, friends who drink) so will a recovering sex offender avoid situations where opprtunities to reoffend exists (and where accusations can be made). A "recovering" sex offenders who shows an inordinate interest in youth programs and activities is NOT on the road to recovery.

Well, those are the obeservations of one sitting way up high in the peanut gallery.

Mind if I join you? Words of wisdom there Brother.

Blessings, Rhoni

[SDG]

"In addition to imposing residency and employment restrictions, Georgia's sex offender law will now criminalize religious practice," said Sara Totonchi, SCHR public policy director. "Specifically, the statute prohibits all 15,700 people on the registry from 'volunteering' at a church. Activities such as singing in an adult church choir, looking up passages for a pastor in Bible study, preparing for revivals and prayer vigils, or cooking meals in a church kitchen will now be considered criminal activity punishable by 10-30 years in prison.

"The law makes no exception for anyone -- even people who are on the registry for having consensual sex as teenagers. The new law poses an additional complication: pastors, reverends and other spiritual leaders could be charged with accessory to a crime for encouraging people on the registry to actively participate in the life of the church
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/columnists/kaffie_sledge/story/356215.html

Holy smokes ... we've lost it.

No you can't look up passages for pastor's bible study ... if you are on the registry.

Accessory to a crime for showing measured and vigilant Christian compassion???

And we are not in agreement about this?

[Rhoni]

I would have to side with DA on this issue. If Christ has forgiven us from our sins, would we want those sins to prevent us from serving our God and local assembly?

This new law seemed to be so far reaching that it would ensnare those that made mistakes when they were a teenager (see below). How would you feel if your child had a call to preach the gospel, but couldn't because he made a poor decision to have consensual sex with a girl when he was younger?

Personally, I have trouble with anyone who would abuse a child and I wondered what I would do if someone had molested one of my nieces or nephew? However, I strongly believe if someone has been delivered and were filled with the Holy Ghost then they should be allowed to serve the Lord and their church. The only stipulation that I would be in favor of would be that the pastor to be informed if there was a charge that involved molestation, rape or any violent offense.

"In addition to imposing residency and employment restrictions, Georgia's sex offender law will now criminalize religious practice," said Sara Totonchi, SCHR public policy director. "Specifically, the statute prohibits all 15,700 people on the registry from 'volunteering' at a church. Activities such as singing in an adult church choir, looking up passages for a pastor in Bible study, preparing for revivals and prayer vigils, or cooking meals in a church kitchen will now be considered criminal activity punishable by 10-30 years in prison.

"The law makes no exception for anyone -- even people who are on the registry for having consensual sex as teenagers. The new law poses an additional complication: pastors, reverends and other spiritual leaders could be charged with accessory to a crime for encouraging people on the registry to actively participate in the life of the church
http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/columnists/kaffie_sledge/story/356215.html

Holy smokes ... we've lost it.

I stand in awe:tic

I do have to disagree with you both. We should not allow sexual predators to work in any area of the church except with those recovering from similar sins, and that under strict accountability to the Pastor.

Blessings, Rhoni

[chosenbyone]

Holy smokes ... we've lost it.

No you can't look up passages for pastor's bible study ... in you are on the registry.

Accessory to a crime for showing measured and vigilant Christian compassion???

It's frightening that there was such a law in the US! Essentially, those people would be excluded from everything but sitting on the pew!

[SDG]

This new law seemed to be so far reaching that it would ensnare those that made mistakes when they were a teenager (see below). How would you feel if your child had a call to preach the gospel, but couldn't because he made a poor decision to have consensual sex with a girl when he was younger?You have pastors who won't even license a person for past sexual indiscretions in their teen years ... what makes us think society believes in restoration?

There are AFFers that don't.

I'm not sure anymore.

[Cindy]

Cindy I would be repulsed if this happened to my daughter at 2, 12 or 22 or 32 ... I know that I would be fuming and seeking justice ....

However we need to keep in mind that there are many crimes that affect us greatly .... including the proliferation of drugs, etc.

You do understand that many people can be labeled as a sexual offender for not molesting a child ...

and yet according to this law they can't get involved in a Church at all ...

I'm all for protecting children from a sexual offender who is in contact w/ them like a Sunday School teacher... but it's a lack of common sense that this person can't cook in the kitchen at church?

Hello???

That's not common sense.

It's a fact that those who are involved in church activities are the one's who become committed to the things of God ....

Balance.

Yes Daniel, I understand you. But it happens to a lot of people in churches. Child or adult rape is rape. It has horrifying consequences. That's why predator's are seldom caught, they choose places that are supposedly safe, for them and their victims. I also believe in forgiveness for sins, if they are known to the church then their should be overseers in place, but then that is like guarding the door after it is shut. They walk among us and they are not grungy looking monsters. They are just like us except on the inside is an insidious monster wanting power and control and this is the way they choose to exert their power.
I don't think this particular law is fair however. There has to be a better way than that to have safeguards in place in our churches. But I also believe when you have been convicted of a felony of any kind you give up your basic rights as a citizen. One of them being released into society with high chances of re-offending and expect the same considerations as law abiding citizens.

[Rhoni]

Just so everyone knows...I love everyone on this thread so far and I agree to disagree with my beloved friends.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Yes Daniel, I understand you. But it happens to a lot of people in churches. Child or adult rape is rape. It has horrifying consequences. That's why predator's are seldom caught, they choose places that are supposedly safe, for them and their victims. I also believe in forgiveness for sins, if they are known to the church then their should be overseers in place, but then that is like guarding the door after it is shut. They walk among us and they are not grungy looking monsters. They are just like us except on the inside is an insidious monster wanting power and control and this is the way they choose to exert their power.
I don't think this particular law is fair however. There has to be a better way than that to have safeguards in place in our churches. But I also believe when you have been convicted of a felony of any kind you give up your basic rights as a citizen. One of them being released into society with high chances of re-offending and expect the same considerations as law abiding citizens.

Absolutely! I agree. Good post. [Except we have to have safeguards or none of the yuppies will allow their children to go to our Sunday Schools]. The older the parent, the more cautious, and rightly so.

Blessings, Rhoni

[OneAccord]

We're talking about Georgia, folks, are we not? Georgia would pass a law to stop the sun from shinin if they could find a way to enforce it. Nah, they don't need to enfortce it... just make it a law and it is so. At least until the Supreme Court rules that this law, like many repealed Georgia laws, is unconstitutional and.... and... now whats that legal term I'm looking for? Oh yeah.....


....AND STUPID!

[SDG]

This may be the new spiritual Jim Crow laws of the 21st century...

Lawmakers want to look tough and know that sexual offenders are the whipping boy that will offend no one.

Everyone likes a good lynching.

We're talking about the GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST ... the power of God unto salvation!!!!

Do we believe it anymore?

[SOUNWORTHY]

When you have not been personally touched by these kinds of crimes it is really easy to forgive and forget I guess. Or if it has not happened to your children or close family members. If not it is easier said than done. And lets not forget the families of the criminals. They are affected also.

So lets say you decide to let them come into your church, do you inform everyone of their pasts or just not say anything? And then if God forbid they rape someone or molest a child what do you say then? What if it is your wife, daughter, sister, mother, or son......?


Granny,:toofunnyI see your point. The thing that bothers me is, Where is the seperation of church and state we hear so much about. The church is to stay out of politics but politics has no qualms about coming into the church. I have a couple friends who are registered sexd offenders. It happened many years ago and was a one time slip up. They have been squeeky clean since.

I think church members should know if a person has been convicted of a sex crime.

[OneAccord]

This may be the new spiritual Jim Crow laws of the 21st century...

Lawmakers want to look tough and know that sexual offenders are the whipping boy that will offend no one.

Everyone likes a good lynching.

We're talking about the GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST ... the power of God unto salvation!!!!

Do we believe it anymore?



Absolutely, I believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Whats more, I believe in the POWER of the Gospel which is "the Power unto Salvation". But... with the risks of potential victims, (not to even mention the reputation of the church), I don't believe in throwing caution to the wind. Safeguards must be put in place to minimize the risk to potential victims and to minimize tempation or the occasion to fall by a recovering sex offender. The threat of repeat offenses is there, Bro. Daniel and the risk is minimized by keeping close watch on the recovering offender. The law in question is extreme to say the least. Another "bandaid" on society'e knee to make them feel they are safe and secure. I absolutely do believe in the Power of the Gospel as I do in intensive counseling and therapy. As Spock was known to have stated: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one". I believe a fox can be trained to refrain from eating chickens. I'm just not gonna give him the keys to the henhouse.... unless I am right there to help him to "avoid temptation".

[Cindy]

Forgive me if I seem hard. 40 years ago almost to the day. He was a repeat offender. In Dallas, Texas the police and the court system were hard on victims back then. Oh well, chalk it up to innocence lost.

[Cindy]

Granny,:toofunnyI see your point. The thing that bothers me is, Where is the seperation of church and state we hear so much about. The church is to stay out of politics but politics has no qualms about coming into the church. I have a couple friends who are registered sexd offenders. It happened many years ago and was a one time slip up. They have been squeeky clean since.

I think church members should know if a person has been convicted of a sex crime.

I find the smiley in your post very offensive given the subject manner.

[Rhoni]

Absolutely, I believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Whats more, I believe in the POWER of the Gospel which is "the Power unto Salvation". But... with the risks of potential victims, (not to even mention the reputation of the church), I don't believe in throwing caution to the wind. Safeguards must be put in place to minimize the risk to potential victims and to minimize tempation or the occasion to fall by a recovering sex offender. The threat of repeat offenses is there, Bro. Daniel and the risk is minimized by keeping close watch on the recovering offender. The law in question is extreme to say the least. Another "bandaid" on society'e knee to make them feel they are safe and secure. I absolutely do believe in the Power of the Gospel as I do in intensive counseling and therapy. As Spock was known to have stated: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one". I believe a fox can be trained to refrain from eating chickens. I'm just not gonna give him the keys to the henhouse.... unless I am right there to help him to "avoid temptation".


:preach This is a good message...preach on.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Carpenter]

How many women have had their purses stolen as they stream to pray at the altar? I notice many of them carrying their purses to the front with them.

...trust in God, but tie your horse.

:D

[Cindy]

How many women have had their purses stolen as they stream to pray at the altar? I notice many of them carrying their purses to the front with them.

...trust in God, but tie your horse.

:D

Gives food for thought to cutting off the hand of thieves doesn't it?

[Carpenter]

How many women have had their purses stolen as they stream to pray at the altar? I notice many of them carrying their purses to the front with them.

...trust in God, but tie your horse.

:D

Cneasttx, allow me...

I find the smiley in your post very offensive given the subject manner.




Lighten up dear sister, God is good...

[Carpenter]

Gives food for thought to cutting off the hand of thieves doesn't it?

I am all for that...except God would have to give rise for it to grow back when they receive grace.

[Cindy]

Cneasttx, allow me...

I find the smiley in your post very offensive given the subject manner.




Lighten up dear sister, God is good...

I didn't have a smiley in my post ........brother

You did however..........Now can I smile?

[SDG]

Absolutely, I believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Whats more, I believe in the POWER of the Gospel which is "the Power unto Salvation". But... with the risks of potential victims, (not to even mention the reputation of the church), I don't believe in throwing caution to the wind. Safeguards must be put in place to minimize the risk to potential victims and to minimize tempation or the occasion to fall by a recovering sex offender. The threat of repeat offenses is there, Bro. Daniel and the risk is minimized by keeping close watch on the recovering offender. The law in question is extreme to say the least. Another "bandaid" on society'e knee to make them feel they are safe and secure. I absolutely do believe in the Power of the Gospel as I do in intensive counseling and therapy. As Spock was known to have stated: "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one". I believe a fox can be trained to refrain from eating chickens. I'm just not gonna give him the keys to the henhouse.... unless I am right there to help him to "avoid temptation".

No one is advocating not being vigilant nor taking precautions 1A.

That's where the line must be drawn ...

I know it took 14 years for Paul to gain enough experience and credibility among his peers who doubted his conversion ...

Keep in mind this is a man who massacred men, women and children of faith ...

I am all for not being caught off guard ... but what I am hearing here is that some of us agree that Amazing Grace is not enough and never will be ...

Paul would not be accepted in their churches ... ever ... much less as a minister of the Gospel

I'm not naive to know that certain crimes are worse than others but this law does not make provisions for this and handcuffs the Church who may be the only ones that will provide the ANSWER ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWDKFLdVdWI

[Carpenter]

I didn't have a smiley in my post ........brother

You did however..........Now can I smile?

I am just a nobody, you certainly don't need my permission.

[Cindy]

I am just a nobody, you certainly don't need my permission.

:gaga

[Cindy]

No one is advocating not being vigilant nor taking precautions 1A.

That's where the line must be drawn ...

I know it took 14 years for Paul to gain enough experience and credibility among his peers who doubted his conversion ...

Keep in mind this is a man who massacred men, women and children of faith ...

I am all for not being caught off guard ... but what I am hearing here is that some of us agree that Amazing Grace is not enough and never will be ...

I'm not naive to know that certain crimes are worse than others but this law does not make provisions for this and handcuffs the Church who may be the only ones that will provide the ANSWER ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWDKFLdVdWI

I agree with you Daniel, with the way that law is worded. And I don't believe the state should be able to police churches. But I do believe leadership should.

[SDG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIfQ-aBham4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOTOBFmW6T4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sixn0fpd2BE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MNXLLK0ioBs

[Jermyn Davidson]

I don't know if this was brought up already, but the whole "sex offender" hysteria can be nauseating. There are more than a few situations that a person can find themselves in, and, after making some bad judgments, they are now "marked" for life as "sex offenders". It's a bit unfair, in some circumstances.

Not everyone with the label "sex offender" are guilty of something that deserves the stigma that is commonly associated with that label.

[Rhoni]

I don't know if this was brought up already, but the whole "sex offender" hysteria can be nauseating. There are more than a few situations that a person can find themselves in, and, after making some bad judgments, they are now "marked" for life as "sex offenders". It's a bit unfair, in some circumstances.

Not everyone with the label "sex offender" are guilty of something that deserves the stigma that is commonly associated with that label.

I do agree with you that there are some exceptions. People get carried away with the topic at times - I am sure.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Cindy]

A lot of their victims cried out for mercy, but sadly it did not help. Some survived, some didn't. Sadly too many are silenced forever because they felt safe.

[OneAccord]

No one is advocating not being vigilant nor taking precautions 1A.

That's where the line must be drawn ...

I know it took 14 years for Paul to gain enough experience and credibility among his peers who doubted his conversion ...

Keep in mind this is a man who massacred men, women and children of faith ...

I am all for not being caught off guard ... but what I am hearing here is that some of us agree that Amazing Grace is not enough and never will be ...

Paul would not be accepted in their churches ... ever ... much less as a minister of the Gospel

I'm not naive to know that certain crimes are worse than others but this law does not make provisions for this and handcuffs the Church who may be the only ones that will provide the ANSWER ..


Absolutely.... and for some who haven't expienced grace, Amazing Grace will never be enough. I don't see anyone on this thread who says grace isn't enough though. But it is enough. Its times like this the Lord reminds me of a time when I really, really, REALLY needed to forgive someone. My hatred, my burning lust for vengense was consuming no one but me. When I saw what I have believed to be absolutely justifiable hatred was doing to me, the Lord gave me these verses: 2 Cor. 2:5-11. That was my Road to Damascus.

I believe the Gospel is the key to a persons deliverance and salvation. But, as I wrote to someone by PM, the work of the Gospel isn't always done from the pulpit. Sometimes its done there in the shrinks chair. No...it isn't the CHURCH that provides the answer in every case. Its the Lord who provides the way of escape and sometimes (as in a point in my own life) its takes the ear and counsel of a compassionate and caring theapist. If I didn't have one when I lost my first wife, I don't think I would have made it through this past Feb.

[Jermyn Davidson]

I do agree with you that there are some exceptions. People get carried away with the topic at times - I am sure.

Blessings, Rhoni

Before this thread, I didn't know there were places that had laws like this. It's over-reaching and I hope it is indeed struck down.

It was in Georgia also, where that 18 yr old Senior was put in jail for having sex with his girlfriend who was indeed younger than him. He was 17 when they started "dating". Even if he was 18 when they started, they were both students of the same HS and had shared interests.

He was kept in jail for two, maybe three years before his case was over turned and all charges dropped against him.

But technically, he would have been a "sex offender" for life too!

[OneAccord]

I agree with you Daniel, with the way that law is worded. And I don't believe the state should be able to police churches. But I do believe leadership should.

Thats it right there. "Leadership should..." Leadership must. I know, I know.... sounds like I am advocating the much dreaded "pastoral authority" thingy... but, its not about authority, rather than safeguarding the sheep. Its about being a watchman on the wall. Its kind of odd how we go to great lengths to protect our doctrinal views, but we leave the door of the henhouse wide open to dangers we don't think about because we just don't want to think about them. . Not one is saying anyone is doin' that here... but... just sayin'.....

[Cindy]

I find the viewpoints of men and women on this subject to be so far apart. And of course those that have never been victims of these kinds of crimes know so much better how we are to treat the offenders. And sad to say a lot of victims find this mentality just another slap in the face from ignorant people.

[MissBrattified]

I find the viewpoints of men and women on this subject to be so far apart. And of course those that have never been victims of these kinds of crimes know so much better how we are to treat the offenders. And sad to say a lot of victims find this mentality just another slap in the face from ignorant people.

cneasttx, I understand what you're saying. I'm just asking two things:

1. What about those whose offenses are not severe or particularly heinous, (referring to a database that doesn't differentiate the pedophile from the 18 year old boy who had consensual sex with the 17 year old girl), and,

2. Should the church react to offenders the same way the state does?

I do NOT believe we should be lax in our protection of our children or that pastors should be unconcerned with the safety of the church's congregants.

Also, it bothers me when the state meddles too much with the autonomy of the church government.

[Cindy]

cneasttx, I understand what you're saying. I'm just asking two things:

1. What about those whose offenses are not severe or particularly heinous, (referring to a database that doesn't differentiate the pedophile from the 18 year old boy who had consensual sex with the 17 year old girl), and,

2. Should the church react to offenders the same way the state does?

I do NOT believe we should be lax in our protection of our children or that pastors should be unconcerned with the safety of the church's congregants.

Also, it bothers me when the state meddles too much with the autonomy of the church government.


The wording of this law they passed in Georgia is ridiculous. Teenagers that are convicted of statutory rape in my opinion are most often charged because the parents found out their daughter is having sex. (Not always, but more often than not). I don't know if that is so widespread anymore. It should be noted that not all registered sex offenders are hardened criminals or child predators. It should be judged on a case by case basis.

No the church should not react the same way as the state. There should be compassion but the leaders MUST have very strict safeguards in place if these were violent or repeat offenders. Being left on the side of the road or in a field somewhere, or even in your home after an assault does not foster forgiveness. The church should be in the business of helpin people, including victims and offenders. But I don't think a lot of churches have counselors that are trained in this area.

Separation of church and state should apply across the board.

[James Griffin]

My my my my my

It’s about time for Big Daddy to step up to the pulpit, pull out his Bible and get his preach on up in here.

The text for tonight is 1 Cor. Chapter 6. We are fixin to exigent on the Blood of Christ.
Come on now, the devil is a lie.

But first let me take a deep breath step away from the podium over to the lectern and explain a little bit of phraseology which although alluded to does not seem to have sunk in.

If necessary I will post actual case after case complete with names of totally ridiculous instances of people being registered as sex offenders.

In nearly a third of the states someone caught urinating in public (WITHOUT EXPOSURE) is charged with lewd conduct and forced to register as a sex offender.

Scenario- 20 year old female, too much iced tea, stops car, not a rest room in sight, steps around the corner to relieve herself, police officer happens around the corner figures out what is going on gives her a citation. Sex offender. Now eight years later she’s married, mother of two, and a pastor’s wife. Moves to Georgia and discovers that if she sings in the choir, or helps in the kitchen she could get 30 years in prison?

Scenario- 14 year old gives birth after having child. Father was 15 year old, mother has to register as sex offender. Actual case.

Scenario- 19 year old still in high school has oral sex with 17 year old girlfriend he is charged with statutory rape, convicted, spends one and half years in prison while legislature changes the law. He is released finally but still has to register as sex offender. Actual Case.

Scenario- 8 year old boy taken into the juvenile system because he won’t stop patting girl’s on the butt while walking down the hall at school. TWO YEAR debate on whether he should register as sex offender. Fortunately cooler heads prevail and he doesn’t but still close call. Actual case.

Is the message starting to sink in?

Sex offender does NOT AUTOMATICALLY EQUATE TO CHILD MOLESTER

Sex offender does NOT AUTOMATICALLY EQUATE TO PREDITOR.

Now that terminology 101 is over still fighting the urge to step back to the pulpit….

The law far exceeds the common sense requirements to keep a reasonable barrier between an offender and young children. It is saying that a sex offender, molester or not, cannot serve in a church in ANY capacity EVER, they by the grace of the state shall be allowed to come in sit down and not participate in any manner.

“Brother, we are short handed tonight, you’ve been coming here for ten years could you please help us take up the offering?” “ Love to, but that might be considered “volunteering” and I could face 30 years in prison.”

Doesn’t take a lot of common decency, mere common sense should set off alarm bells !!!!!!

[Kay B]

Thats it right there. "Leadership should..." Leadership must. I know, I know.... sounds like I am advocating the much dreaded "pastoral authority" thingy... but, its not about authority, rather than safeguarding the sheep. Its about being a watchman on the wall. Its kind of odd how we go to great lengths to protect our doctrinal views, but we leave the door of the henhouse wide open to dangers we don't think about because we just don't want to think about them. . Not one is saying anyone is doin' that here... but... just sayin'.....


There was a situation in a church we attended before moving here to AK. To many details so I'll shorten it to. A sex offender who was waiting for court attended same church as us. On prayer meeting night this person was running around the SS rooms playing with children.there was no way we could get our thoughts, minds on praying during this time.
Parents are also responsible as well as leadership.

A few years ago I saw on the internet of a released sex offender who killed a girl shortly after being released. He was the nephew of my friend here. I recognized the name and called to see if he was related.
We cannot be to cautious about this type of offense.

[ZMan!]

http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/2007/05/introduction.html

I want to first start off with saying I am NOT pro-pedophile or pro-sex offender but pro-Constitution. I am totally against any form of abuse to any animal or human being. Anybody who commits any crime should be punished. But, once that person has done the time they were convicted under, via contract, and is off parole and/or probation, they should be able to get on with their lives without all the rules and regulations. No other criminal has to live by such draconian laws, so why sex offenders? If we must do this for sex offenders, then I think, to be fair, all criminals must be under similar rules and regulations.

When an ex-offender is forced to move from his/her home, thus having to sell it, cannot find another home within the law due to the residency "buffer" zones, get fired from their jobs due to being on the registry, cannot find a new job due to being on the registry, their husband/wife lose their jobs due to a significant other being on the registry, their children lose their friends and are harassed and bullied in school due to a family member being on the registry, thus destroying the children's lives, ex-offenders are forced into homelessness and to live under bridges, harassed by police, neighbors and probation/parole officers, have to wear "I'm a sex offender T-shirt" or have a neon green license plate on ALL their cars, have "sex offender" on their drivers license and forced to renew their licenses every year, forced from shelters during tornadoes or hurricanes, cannot give blood at some places due to being discriminated against for being on the sex offender registry, denied housing due to being on the registry, signs placed in their yards inviting harassment and ridicule from the neighbors, forced to move when the neighbors start picketing outside the ex-offenders home, the list is endless.

I THINK THIS IS CRUEL AND UNUSUAL PUNISHMENT, BEYOND THE EXTREME!

[ZMan!]

This is only a portion of this blog item, click the next link to view the entire thing.

http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/2008/06/satans-silence-ritual-abuse-and-making.html

Satan's Silence: Ritual Abuse and the Making of a Modern American Witch Hunt. - book reviews

View the article here (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_n3_v20/ai_18372139) | Book (http://www.amazon.com/Satans-Silence-Ritual-Making-American/dp/0465071813) | Day Care Sexual Abuse Hysteria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_care_sexual_abuse_hysteria)

I highly recommend you read this book. It explains basically everything and more of what I have said and others have said for years, and explains how this sex hysteria has gotten started in the first place. Remember the old "Satanic Ritual Abuse" news articles and the show Geraldo Riviera did? Well, it's because of feminists and some people mentioned in this book.

PLEASE READ THIS BOOK, IF YOU READ NOTHING ELSE!!

Also see this (http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/2007/05/foley-pedophile-sex-scandal-may-go-back.html) and this (http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/2007/05/child-prostitution-satanism-cia.html) video series.

Also check out these wikipedia articles: MASS HYSTERIA (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_hysteria), MORAL PANIC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moral_panic)

Anyone fortunate enough to discover and read Debbie Nathan and Michael Snedeker's Satan's Silence (http://www.amazon.com/Satans-Silence-Ritual-Making-American/dp/0465071813) will quickly realize this is the best book yet written about the current American tragedy of childhood sexual molestation. Not specifically the sexual molestation of children - which is indeed a serious problem - but the persecution, prosecution, and conviction of innocent adults wrongly accused of ritual sexual crimes against children they did not commit.

To believe for a moment that the Salem witch-trial horror of 1692 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salem_witch_trials) could ever be repeated even once in an enlightened and civilized society seems unthinkable, but to realize that it has happened here in the United States more than a dozen times within the past decade borders on the bizarre and unbelievable. How can a supposedly educated and informed populace allow such flagrant miscarriages of justice to occur and, then, once the truth is known, fail to take swift and firm action to free and exonerate the innocent?

Nathan and Snedeker's work covers each sordid instance of satanic panic: from the Bakersfield (Kern County), California, fiasco in 1980, in which four innocent adults were sentenced to a total of more than 240 years of imprisonment for crimes they did not commit based on the testimony of Mary Ann Barbour (http://www.religioustolerance.org/ra_baker.htm), who was known to be suffering from a schizoaffective disorder (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schizoaffective_disorder); to the 1992 Little Rascals Day Care Center horror (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_Rascals_Day_Care) in Edentown, North Carolina; and the 1995 outrages - in East Wenatchee, Washington.

The Kern County tragedy was but a precursor to the much better-known witch-hunt involving Judy Johnson and the McMartin Preschool case (http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/criminal_mind/psychology/mcmartin_daycare/1.html) in Manhattan Beach, California. This stain on American jurisprudence lasted from 1983 to 1990.

In the McMartin case, the accused, Peggy and Ray Buckey, spent five years in jail before being released on $1.5 million bail, then underwent a trial lasting 28 months - the longest criminal proceeding in American history - before all charges were finally dismissed. Judy Johnson, who said she believed she had divine powers, and who the courts described as a psychotic alcoholic, triggered the case by accusing Ray Buckey of sodomizing her son. This accusation launched a veritable fear-storm of social panic and paranoia that not only infected much of Los Angeles County but quickly spread across the country.

In regard to the McMartin case, Nathan and Snedeker note, "The social hysteria that McMartin incited upped ritual abuse cases to another level. While at first they were products of delusional individuals by 1984 whole social systems had been set up to justify and develop accusations and prosecutions" (p. 93).

By 1984 the media were promoting the idea that ritual sex-abuse was common and pervasive. In January 1984, 60 million people watched the ABC-TV drama "Something About Amelia (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0088149/)," dealing with a handsome, affluent father who sexually abused his teenaged daughter. The movie implied such cases were common.

. . . . . removed to shorten article . . . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RAyrbQrNBs

[Praxeas]

I think the problem is is that many people don't even think a lot of these crimes should be anything less than life. The saying has been pretty accurate so far but once a sex offender always a sex offender. There is something messed up psychologically with them.

I think they should be under constant psychiatric care and evaluation

[ZMan!]

I think the problem is is that many people don't even think a lot of these crimes should be anything less than life. The saying has been pretty accurate so far but once a sex offender always a sex offender. There is something messed up psychologically with them.

I think they should be under constant psychiatric care and evaluation

You are wrong, that is the problem people have. I am a RSO who was charged in 1988 after getting out of the shower in a new apartment I lived in for 1 day, in the morning, and while still nude, walked back to the back sliding glass door, opened it and peered outside. I was not aware there was a play ground out back, and a young girl (11) saw me and ran and told her mother.

Yes, I was wrong for what I did, I do not deny that, and I have NEVER raped or had sex with ANY child, yet here it is 2008 and I am still being punished over and over and over again.... I've even taken tests, and they said I passed them with flying colors, but simply because the "victim" was 11, someone I did not know, and female, that made me a risk..

That is wrong... I've not committed any other crime like this, nor have any plans on doing so, and if I would've went to this lady 50 years from now, it would be the same thing.

So tell me, how is that fair???

You have been watching too much TV.

Yes, there is some sick people out there, but the statement you said, is wrong....

There is TONS of studies out there, which show that sex offenders are LESS LIKELY than any other offender, except murderers, to reoffend.

Here is some info for you, from reliable sources:

http://sexoffenderissues.pbwiki.com/#Recidivism
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/search/label/%2BRecidivism
http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/search/label/%2BFactsAndMyths

What about all these young kids? As young as 4 years old? Do you think they are "sick" for life???

http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/2007/12/child-sex-offenders.html

I also have tons of videos at my YouTube site:

http://www.youtube.com/ZMan6919

Stop watching so much TV, and learn the facts for yourself... PLEASE!!!

And just because I have started a blog, back in 2006, I cannot tell you the number of hateful emails, defamatory comments and threats I have received. I had it all on my blog, but I removed it, because I was getting tons more. They post stuff all over the web that I raped a child, which is FALSE. My record proves that is a lie. Yet they continue to post lies all over the place, simply because I am speaking up.

They even reported my blog to Perverted-Justice, who has now place me on their Wikisposure site, with more lies. See here:

http://www.wikisposure.com/ZMan6919

Also see this law suit, which I know this lady, from emails:

http://www.corrupted-justice.com/article28.html

So are you a Christian? Doesn't sound like it from your statements. Just ask yourself, what would Jesus do?

PEACE & GOD BLESS!

[ZMan!]

James what is the best predictor of future behaviors?

Nobody can predict the future. Once someone has been sentenced and done their time, they should be free and given the benefit of the doubt. I know this is a touchy subject, anything to do with children always is, just look at history. We never learn from it, why? What about prevention instead of locking them up and forgetting about them? That is the problem with society, everyone is for locking them up and forgetting about them, that is the easy way out, but why not work on figuring out why this occurs?

If they commit another crime, them lock them up for longer time.

I would like to know why other criminals, who harm children as well, do not have to have similar laws and restrictions against them? Like murderers, DUI offenders, drug dealers/users, gang members, abusive parents, you name it. Why are sex offenders being discriminated against?

THIS IS NOTHING BUT A MASS HYSTERIA, MORAL PANIC, WITCH HUNT, IF YOU ASK ME....

Every single day, the government is eradicating peoples rights, and I fear that these SO laws are just a precursor of what is to come.

Many Christians are being persecuted every day, and it's getting worse and worse.

In case you are interested, check out this site, it is great... ;)

http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/
http://fulfilledprophecy.com/bb/

[Rhoni]

I think the problem is is that many people don't even think a lot of these crimes should be anything less than life. The saying has been pretty accurate so far but once a sex offender always a sex offender. There is something messed up psychologically with them.

I think they should be under constant psychiatric care and evaluation


I agree. Yes, there are false accusations, yes there are those with the stigma that don't deserve the stigma, but there are so many sex offenders that aren't prosecuted or caught that the ones that are caught and convicted should definitely be watched, carefully...

The percentage of those falsely accused is minute compared to the actual numbers of those not caught and not prosecuted. If the church had been responsible enough to handle these things then the legal system would not have had to intervene. Take the Catholic churches, and even our Apostolic churches.

Pastors of good standing have used the justification that they were protecting the reputation of the church, the family, and even the victim by not reporting the perpetrator. God doesn't need this help. It brings more of a reproach on the church for hiding and abetting the perpetrator than to turn them in and set up safeguards to protect the children, women, and yes - even some of the men in the church.

I give credit to those Pastors, and families who turn in perpertrators of these crimes even if they are members of an Apostolic church.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rhoni]

Nobody can predict the future. Once someone has been sentenced and done their time, they should be free and given the benefit of the doubt. I know this is a touchy subject, anything to do with children always is, just look at history. We never learn from it, why? What about prevention instead of locking them up and forgetting about them? That is the problem with society, everyone is for locking them up and forgetting about them, that is the easy way out, but why not work on figuring out why this occurs?

If they commit another crime, them lock them up for longer time.

I would like to know why other criminals, who harm children as well, do not have to have similar laws and restrictions against them? Like murderers, DUI offenders, drug dealers/users, gang members, abusive parents, you name it. Why are sex offenders being discriminated against?

THIS IS NOTHING BUT A MASS HYSTERIA, MORAL PANIC, WITCH HUNT, IF YOU ASK ME....

Every single day, the government is eradicating peoples rights, and I fear that these SO laws are just a precursor of what is to come.

Many Christians are being persecuted every day, and it's getting worse and worse.

In case you are interested, check out this site, it is great... ;)

http://www.fulfilledprophecy.com/
http://fulfilledprophecy.com/bb/

LOL...of course you would say this...discriminate against sex offenders...please:blah

[Cindy]

God have mercy on us all.

[SOUNWORTHY]

I don't know if this was brought up already, but the whole "sex offender" hysteria can be nauseating. There are more than a few situations that a person can find themselves in, and, after making some bad judgments, they are now "marked" for life as "sex offenders". It's a bit unfair, in some circumstances.

Not everyone with the label "sex offender" are guilty of something that deserves the stigma that is commonly associated with that label.

I agree 100%.

[Cindy]

06/27/2008
The Southern Center for Human Rights filed a motion in U.S. District Court this week to strike down a Georgia provision that forbids sex offenders from volunteering in churches.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported that the motion argues based on the grounds that the law “criminalizes fundamental religious activity.” Things sex offenders cannot do include singing in church choirs or cooking in church kitchens. The provision, though it’s been approved by the state legislature and governor, will not become law until July 1, or Tuesday of next week.

Sarah Geraghty, lawyer for the human rights group, concedes to reporters that it’s inappropriate for most sex offenders from having contact with children. But, she argues, that shouldn’t preclude them from adult-only activities, and it shouldn’t keep them away from the rehabilitative services that churches can offer.

The provision has a very punitive component, as well. Any convicted sex offender caught working or volunteering at a church can be sentenced to 10 to 30 years in prison.

Georgia Senate President pro tem Eric Johnson supports the provision and said that law would not prohibit sex offenders’ right to attend worship services. It would, however, limit their ability to get heavily involved with a church.

Jackie Taylor, communications director for Cascade Hills Church in Columbus, Ga., said that her church welcomes sex offenders to church but absolutely keeps them away from where children are likely to be, which is on a different floor of their building from the sanctuary. Anyone who wants to work with children has to submit to a background check. However, as far as to whether or not sex offenders can be active as volunteers in adult-only ministries, Taylor says the church doesn’t have an explicit policy.

“We tend to err on the side of grace, but we definitely don’t want to endanger anyone,” she said. She added that all of the church’s ministries are handled through pastoral care and that counselors screen volunteers to make sure they are safe.

The debate is the latest in a string of litigation in Georgia following the state’s 2006 law that laid down firm restrictions on where sex offenders could work and live. In 2007, the Georgia Supreme Court struck down a law that prohibited registered sex offenders from living within 1,000 feet of “places where children congregate” because the wording was too vague and broad.

Churches that are faced with a sex-offender dilemma might consider consulting lawyers and law enforcement about the laws in that state and could also seek more input and advice from church leaders who have dealt with these problems before.

http://www.churchsolutionsmag.com/ho...w-georgia.html

James, may I ask why you started this thread?

[James Griffin]

My my my my my

It’s about time for Big Daddy to step up to the pulpit, pull out his Bible and get his preach on up in here.

The text for tonight is 1 Cor. Chapter 6. We are fixin to exigent on the Blood of Christ.
Come on now, the devil is a lie.

But first let me take a deep breath step away from the podium over to the lectern and explain a little bit of phraseology which although alluded to does not seem to have sunk in.

If necessary I will post actual case after case complete with names of totally ridiculous instances of people being registered as sex offenders.

In nearly a third of the states someone caught urinating in public (WITHOUT EXPOSURE) is charged with lewd conduct and forced to register as a sex offender.

Scenario- 20 year old female, too much iced tea, stops car, not a rest room in sight, steps around the corner to relieve herself, police officer happens around the corner figures out what is going on gives her a citation. Sex offender. Now eight years later she’s married, mother of two, and a pastor’s wife. Moves to Georgia and discovers that if she sings in the choir, or helps in the kitchen she could get 30 years in prison?

Scenario- 14 year old gives birth after having child. Father was 15 year old, mother has to register as sex offender. Actual case.

Scenario- 19 year old still in high school has oral sex with 17 year old girlfriend he is charged with statutory rape, convicted, spends one and half years in prison while legislature changes the law. He is released finally but still has to register as sex offender. Actual Case.

Scenario- 8 year old boy taken into the juvenile system because he won’t stop patting girl’s on the butt while walking down the hall at school. TWO YEAR debate on whether he should register as sex offender. Fortunately cooler heads prevail and he doesn’t but still close call. Actual case.

Is the message starting to sink in?

Sex offender does NOT AUTOMATICALLY EQUATE TO CHILD MOLESTER

Sex offender does NOT AUTOMATICALLY EQUATE TO PREDITOR.

Now that terminology 101 is over still fighting the urge to step back to the pulpit….

The law far exceeds the common sense requirements to keep a reasonable barrier between an offender and young children. It is saying that a sex offender, molester or not, cannot serve in a church in ANY capacity EVER, they by the grace of the state shall be allowed to come in sit down and not participate in any manner.

“Brother, we are short handed tonight, you’ve been coming here for ten years could you please help us take up the offering?” “ Love to, but that might be considered “volunteering” and I could face 30 years in prison.”

Doesn’t take a lot of common decency, mere common sense should set off alarm bells !!!!!!

BUMP for those who seem to have not read what "registered sex offender" means !!!

[Cindy]

BUMP for those who seem to have not read what "registered sex offender" means !!!

Got it. Those being the only cases of course. :crazywalls

[James Griffin]

Got it. Those being the only cases of course.

Actually it answers your previous question about why I started the thread.

The law is both draconian and overly broad in application. Furthermore, it preys on the public's fear of what it means (or more precisely doesn't mean) to be a registered sex offender.


PS I love you Cindy.

[Cindy]

Actually it answers your previous question about why I started the thread.

The law is both draconian and overly broad in application. Furthermore, it preys on the public's fear of what it means (or more precisely doesn't mean) to be a registered sex offender.

I did get it, you know me, slow sometimes.......lol

It did start me thinking though outside of myself. I do know a young man that was sent to prison here in the great state of Texas. At the age of 17 or 18 he was convicted of statutory rape of his 16 year old girlfriend. And he is a registered sex offender, and he is somehow a high risk offender. Be that as it may I ran into him at a church rummage sale ( he grew up with my kids). I said hello and he looked surprised and I asked him are you going to give me a hug? He said you are the first person besides my family that is willing to talk to and hug me in front of other people. It broke my heart, so I do know both sides of the dilemma. He is a youth leader at a church now, married with a child. I do not hold his past against him.

And we get to the heart of the matter here James, fear. But to keep them out of churches is not the answer as this Georgia law seeks to do repunish them for the same crime.
I do appreciate that you almost always make me think James.

PS I love you too James.

[MissBrattified]

My my my my my

It’s about time for Big Daddy to step up to the pulpit, pull out his Bible and get his preach on up in here.

The text for tonight is 1 Cor. Chapter 6. We are fixin to exigent on the Blood of Christ.
Come on now, the devil is a lie.

But first let me take a deep breath step away from the podium over to the lectern and explain a little bit of phraseology which although alluded to does not seem to have sunk in.

If necessary I will post actual case after case complete with names of totally ridiculous instances of people being registered as sex offenders.

In nearly a third of the states someone caught urinating in public (WITHOUT EXPOSURE) is charged with lewd conduct and forced to register as a sex offender.

Scenario- 20 year old female, too much iced tea, stops car, not a rest room in sight, steps around the corner to relieve herself, police officer happens around the corner figures out what is going on gives her a citation. Sex offender. Now eight years later she’s married, mother of two, and a pastor’s wife. Moves to Georgia and discovers that if she sings in the choir, or helps in the kitchen she could get 30 years in prison?

Scenario- 14 year old gives birth after having child. Father was 15 year old, mother has to register as sex offender. Actual case.

Scenario- 19 year old still in high school has oral sex with 17 year old girlfriend he is charged with statutory rape, convicted, spends one and half years in prison while legislature changes the law. He is released finally but still has to register as sex offender. Actual Case.

Scenario- 8 year old boy taken into the juvenile system because he won’t stop patting girl’s on the butt while walking down the hall at school. TWO YEAR debate on whether he should register as sex offender. Fortunately cooler heads prevail and he doesn’t but still close call. Actual case.

Is the message starting to sink in?

Sex offender does NOT AUTOMATICALLY EQUATE TO CHILD MOLESTER

Sex offender does NOT AUTOMATICALLY EQUATE TO PREDITOR.

Now that terminology 101 is over still fighting the urge to step back to the pulpit….

The law far exceeds the common sense requirements to keep a reasonable barrier between an offender and young children. It is saying that a sex offender, molester or not, cannot serve in a church in ANY capacity EVER, they by the grace of the state shall be allowed to come in sit down and not participate in any manner.

“Brother, we are short handed tonight, you’ve been coming here for ten years could you please help us take up the offering?” “ Love to, but that might be considered “volunteering” and I could face 30 years in prison.”

Doesn’t take a lot of common decency, mere common sense should set off alarm bells !!!!!!

Good post.

[SOUNWORTHY]

Yes it is.

[ForeverBlessed]

1st Corinthians 6, verses 9, 10, and this time 11. Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God. And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Do we believe in this .... or not ....???? Do we believe in the blood?


I've just started reading this thread.. I went to Biblegateway to copy and post this scripture and decided to read more... it needed posted.

[ZMan!]

LOL...of course you would say this...discriminate against sex offenders...please:blah

What kind of comment is this? From someone who is suppose to be a Christ follower.

You did not read what I actually said. All you saw was the "sex offender" and did not read anything else.

Why are ALL other criminals not being hit with the same kind of restrictions? Like DUI offenders who kill people, murderers, gang members, drug dealers, you name it?

That is why I said discrimination, because no where in history, has any other class of offenders been given such harsh punishment, and yes, that is discrimination.

[ZMan!]

Actually it answers your previous question about why I started the thread.

The law is both draconian and overly broad in application. Furthermore, it preys on the public's fear of what it means (or more precisely doesn't mean) to be a registered sex offender.


PS I love you Cindy.

AMEN...

I'd love for you folks to read the following item on my blog, and let me know what you think.

http://sexoffenderissues.blogspot.com/2007/04/my-thoughts-sex-offender-law-issues.html

And also this, which is something I wrote a long time ago when I was angry:

1. I do not believe in registries period, but if the sex offender laws are kept, why discriminate? I DEMAND WE HAVE A CRIMINAL HISTORY REGISTRY, SO I KNOW IF YOU ARE A MURDERER, GANG MEMBER, DRUG DEALER/USER, DRUNK, THIEF! IT'S MY RIGHT! Why won't this fly? Because then the senator, mayor, governor, president, celebrities or you may be on a publically accessible registry to face the shame. But why not? Why discriminate?

2. When will people ever realize no matter how tough on crime, all the zero tolerance, all the registries in the world will not prevent a murderer from murdering, a thief from stealing, a dealer from dealing, a user from using, a rapist from raping....accusations on any sex crime, child abuse, or domestic violence will literally nail your butt to the wall! No DNA has to be present, No violence has to be present..... HEARSAY ALONE IS LITERALLY NAILING THOUSANDS AND THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TO THE WALL BECAUSE THESE LAWS ARE BIASED.

3. Living is already almost impossible for "sex offenders", and the more and more laws that are passed daily, eventually they are going to back-fire. You must be realistic and SMART on crime, when making laws, these draconian laws make it impossible for anyone to live ANY type of life. Everyone is for treatment and punishing those violent offenders who are making other sex offenders lives hell, but like I said, we must be realistic. Being TOUGH on crime doesn't work, history has proved that.

4. The issue with sex offenders Internet email addresses, IM names, etc being collected, this is another "feel good" law that will not stop crime. If someone wanted to commit a new crime, they'd create a new email address and commit the crime. This is stupid and won't work. It is just another waste of the taxpayers money.

5. Think!! Come up with solutions, not "feel good" laws, which make it harder and harder for sex offenders to get on with their lives, and do nothing about protecting people or deal with the actual problem.

6. "Buffer Zones" are a false sense of security! The "buffer zone" could be 50 or 100 miles, but if someone was really intent on committing another crime, do you think a "buffer zone" would stop this from occurring?

7. "Buffer Zones" are banishing people from their town, state, and possibly the country! And still not dealing with the real issues, but only pushing the problem off to someone else to deal with. Typical in this country!

8. "Buffer Zones" create homelessness, which costs society lost productivity, individual dignity, and creates additional problems for enforcing any accurate registry!

9. "Buffer Zones" do nothing, except banish! It could be 50 miles and if someone wanted to re-offend, they'd just get in a car and drive!

10. It should be MANDATORY that anyone in prison get therapy, and out of prison, if needed. Therapy does work. If you just lock them up without therapy, when they get out, they will be worse off. Therapy teaches people how to not act out and help, regardless of what the general public thinks. Just ask a therpist.

11. We need to STOP this hysteria and get sex offenders the help they need.

12. You can pass all the laws you want but without therapy this "mob" mentality will not solve anything!

13. I am sick of politicians using children to get their laws passed! Who would want to vote against anything that is "for the children"?

14. "Stranger Danger" is a smoke screen & hype! Most child sexual offenses occur by someone the child knows, like a family member or close friend!

15. These laws are being passed by politicians using sex offenders as scape goats, for votes!

16. Registries do NOT protect anyone or prevent crimes!

17. Registries are punishing sex offenders as well as their families and children, and opening them up to vigilantism. DON'T THE FAMILIES AND CHILDREN OF sex OFFENDERS COUNT? They are suppose to be "for the children", right?

18. Registries are NOT being updated in a timely fashion, so the public is getting false information! How is this helping the public or protecting them when they cannot rely on them?

19. Registries are putting families and children of sex offenders in a public position to be socially outcast and discriminated against with regard to employment, housing, schooling, etc!

20. About 90% of the people on the registry are NOT violent offenders that these laws were ment for in the first place!

21. These laws cost millions, if not billions to enforce, and they cause prison over-population, which is already a problem, especially in California, and taxpayers pay for all this.

22. GPS does not prevent sexual crimes! Another false sense of security which cost tons of money! Plus the offenders are supposed to pay for this, which will make them eventually go homeless. MAKE THE TAX PAYERS WHO WANT THESE LAWS PAY FOR THEM!

23. These laws cause sex offenders to go underground and into hiding, due to the strict nature of the laws! How is this protecting anyone?

24. These laws are all about money for law enforcement and votes for politicians. Prison is a business! Politicians are salaried and want to get elected/re-elected! Law enforcement get paid for people in jails, prisons or on the registry!

25. These laws blatantly disregard the United States constitutional rights of all citizens! (i.e. ex-post facto, due process & others)

26. These laws are cruel and unusual punishment! A sex offender cannot go to a fast food restaurant which has a playground! Why? They have just as much of a right as you to get a burger! Plus they cannot go anywhere kids congregate. (i.e. Amusement parks, Movie theaters, the list is endless)

27. Sex offenders can go to church, but must leave immediately afterwards. If a sex offender owns a business and someone decides to put a church or school next door, they have to now sell their business and move. This is not right, move the church or school, the sex offender was there first!

28. These laws continue to punish people even after a sentence has been served, and they are trying to get on with their lives! (i.e. ex-post facto)

29. These laws are driven by fear-mongering, opportunistic politicians and will do nothing to actually protect children!

30. There are over one million women and children whose lives are inter-twined with a sex offender in the United States. They should matter too!

31. Follow the money trail, these laws are conveyor-belt laws to benefit law enforcement! They get paid for the number of people in jail, prison or on the registry!

32. They are currently a one-size-fits all for sex offenders! Not all sex offenders are violent offenders that these laws are supposed to be for anyway!

33. They are modern day witch hunts and a Scarlet letter!

34. If sex Offenders are re-offending, why do the registries grow each day? Because new people are being added daily for stuff like "public urination", "mooning", "concensual sex", "young children playing 'Doctor'" and various other minor offenses that we need not worry about. We need to worry about violent offenders!

35. Now they are trying to make it a law that a sex offender, if they have kids, cannot "take a picture" of anyone under 18. This is totally stupid! Can't even take Christmas pictures, birthday pictures, etc!

36. Also, because a sex offender owns a business in town, many people are trying to get the business shut down! The sex offender had the business for awhile. If you don't like it, MOVE!!!!

[ZMan!]

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[rickysmom]

Thank you for posting not all sex offenders are some cruel, violent monster who rapes a baby or kills some innocent child. My son, ricky, at 16 went to a teen club for 16-20 year olds and met a girl. She told him she was almost 16. Like normal teens they hooked up and began dating and had sex. Well she ran away from home and Ricky was questioned and told the truth about them. He was informed after siging a statement she was 13. Her folks did not want to press charges but the state D.A. did and Ricky at 17 was charged as an adult on two felony counts of sexual abuse andwas given a deferred (no legal convicton) of two years probation as a sex offender and ten years registry. Well we moved home to Oklahoma where he be safe, since I lost my vision a couple weeks before his arrest and Oklahoma now makes him register as a aggravated Tier 3 high risk offender due to the three year age difference. He is treated horribly and has endured much with this label which has destroyed his life. He no longer is a fun loving kid who trusts the world and here cannot attend church without prior written permission from the pastor by state law. Even church folk though treat him with the words "we must use discretion for our members" and do not openly be warm and gracious to him as if he is one of gods children. Please read our stie www.rickyslife.com or cfciowa.org and sign my petition help me save Ricky and thousands of kids like him. Its estimated thirty percent of the registry are juvenile cases from many years back. Help me fix this inustice and give Ricky back his life, his future his dreams. Thanks Rickys mom Mary rickysmom@rickyslife.com

Good post.

[chosenbyone]

I only started to watch the second video and turned it off because of a cuss word! You may want to remove the video.

[chosenbyone]

Thank you for posting not all sex offenders are some cruel, violent monster who rapes a baby or kills some innocent child. My son, ricky, at 16 went to a teen club for 16-20 year olds and met a girl. She told him she was almost 16. Like normal teens they hooked up and began dating and had sex. Well she ran away from home and Ricky was questioned and told the truth about them. He was informed after siging a statement she was 13. Her folks did not want to press charges but the state D.A. did and Ricky at 17 was charged as an adult on two felony counts of sexual abuse andwas given a deferred (no legal convicton) of two years probation as a sex offender and ten years registry. Well we moved home to Oklahoma where he be safe, since I lost my vision a couple weeks before his arrest and Oklahoma now makes him register as a aggravated Tier 3 high risk offender due to the three year age difference. He is treated horribly and has endured much with this label which has destroyed his life. He no longer is a fun loving kid who trusts the world and here cannot attend church without prior written permission from the pastor by state law. Even church folk though treat him with the words "we must use discretion for our members" and do not openly be warm and gracious to him as if he is one of gods children. Please read our stie www.rickyslife.com or cfciowa.org and sign my petition help me save Ricky and thousands of kids like him. Its estimated thirty percent of the registry are juvenile cases from many years back. Help me fix this inustice and give Ricky back his life, his future his dreams. Thanks Rickys mom Mary rickysmom@rickyslife.com

This was a very sad story. I had wrote earlier on this thread that kids shouldn't have their chances of having a productive life taken away from them because they made some bad decisions. I hope things get better for your son and family.

[IsolatedSaint]

Thank you for posting not all sex offenders are some cruel, violent monster who rapes a baby or kills some innocent child. My son, ricky, at 16 went to a teen club for 16-20 year olds and met a girl. She told him she was almost 16. Like normal teens they hooked up and began dating and had sex. Well she ran away from home and Ricky was questioned and told the truth about them. He was informed after siging a statement she was 13. Her folks did not want to press charges but the state D.A. did and Ricky at 17 was charged as an adult on two felony counts of sexual abuse andwas given a deferred (no legal convicton) of two years probation as a sex offender and ten years registry. Well we moved home to Oklahoma where he be safe, since I lost my vision a couple weeks before his arrest and Oklahoma now makes him register as a aggravated Tier 3 high risk offender due to the three year age difference. He is treated horribly and has endured much with this label which has destroyed his life. He no longer is a fun loving kid who trusts the world and here cannot attend church without prior written permission from the pastor by state law. Even church folk though treat him with the words "we must use discretion for our members" and do not openly be warm and gracious to him as if he is one of gods children. Please read our stie www.rickyslife.com or cfciowa.org and sign my petition help me save Ricky and thousands of kids like him. Its estimated thirty percent of the registry are juvenile cases from many years back. Help me fix this inustice and give Ricky back his life, his future his dreams. Thanks Rickys mom Mary rickysmom@rickyslife.com

Oh the state has the right to tell churches who can and who can't volunteer in a church based on sex offender registry laws? Well I think it's time we start a new thread/sub-thread and lets get to the root of this problem....

Question: is your church a 501c3 church? That's the problem and I might add one of the root problems in the church today.