Bloggers & Readers Wanted: HolyMagicHair.com

[SDG]

Site: www.HolyMagicHair.com (http://www.holymagichair.com)

-------------------------
Purpose of Holy Magic Hair Blog: Heretical Doctrine

"For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels." - 1 Corinthians 11:10

For years, some Christians, predominantly conservative Baptists, Methodists and Pentecostals, have asserted that the Bible teaches that a woman should not cut her hair. Most born-again Christians believe to the contrary. This debate is based on a passage in 1 Corinthians 11. There are compelling and convincing interpretations on both sides of this issue.

In recent years,however, a dangerous heretical doctrine has emerged claiming that an added reason why a woman's hair should not be cut is because it gives her power with angels citing 1 Corinthians 11:10. Proponents teach that a supernatural power and authority is bestowed by her obedience in not cutting her hair. Some claim this directly results in angelic protection, miracles,healings, special revelation, God's favor and blessing in their loves ... and even can affect one's salvation. Sadly, occult writings are offered up as substantiation for this paradigm.

This blog is an effort to uncover the untruths of this dangerous heretical doctrine that replaces Jesus and the power of God's sovereign Spirit with hair and legalism. We seek only to warn the Body of Christ of this teaching and not to undermine God's call on the lives of those who teach or believe this doctrine. Believers on both sides of the hair issue stand against this extrabiblical heresy.

We also hope to share studies on both sides of the hair issue for our readers.
----------------------------------------------------------

We invite you to read the blog articles that are forthcoming. You will be able to comment about the blogs. These comments will be heavily moderated.

We are also actively seeking bloggers who are willing to donate the talents and time to writing articles on this issue.

Bloggers must commit to not personally attacking the teachers and believers of this doctrine ... but rather help uncover the errors of this doctrine.

Articles should share biblical principles and personal insights about this doctrine in question and the hair issue in general --- by sharing the truth in love.

If you are interested in becoming a blogger for this effort please PM me.

Thank you.

[Brad Murphy]

This should be fun.... :)

[scotty]

Why go somewhere else ? There are thousands of pages of the same right here.

:blah:blah:blah:blah:blah:blah:blah:blah:blah :drama

[Jekyll]

I don't understand...there is no such thing as holy magic hair. DA finally admits to dabbling in witchcraft. :hmmm

[tstew]

DA, what does 11:10 mean to you?

[Hoovie]

7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

8For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
-------------------------------------------------
vs 10 makes reference to the preceeding verse.

Because man was created first, then the woman for the man, she is therefore under the authority of her husband.

As to the angels there are several takes on that. None of them change the fact that hair is not the topic in those verses. The topic is authority which is/was shown by symbolic covering of the head.

[Cindy]

7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

8For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

11Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.

12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God.

13Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered?
-------------------------------------------------
vs 10 makes reference to the preceeding verse.

Because man was created first, then the woman for the man, she is therefore under the authority of her husband.

As to the angels there are several takes on that. None of them change the fact that hair is not the topic in those verses. The topic is authority which is/was shown by symbolic covering of the head.

It was never about hair, nor will it ever be about hair. It is about submission to authority. I don't know how hair ever got into this scripture since it is plainly not there.

[Hoovie]

4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
---------------------------------------------

There is reference to hair here, but only to support the custom of veiling when praying or prophesying.

"...but if it be a shame"

to have short hair or shaved head, let her be covered.

[SDG]

Obviously we do not allow the writer to dictate his terms ... this passage uses head as authority ... not hair.

I've heard some teach ... including PP that the reference to angels deals w/ the fall of some (demons and Lucifer) who would not submit to authority

[Mrs. LPW]

What does "because of the Angels" mean to you?

[Hoovie]

14Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?

15But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering.

---------------------

Again reference to hair is made, as a lesson from nature. If a woman has long hair it beautifies her and makes her glorious. If even nature has covered a woman with natural glory, how much more should she cover herself to show submission when she prays and prophesies?

The bolded part is often refered to as proof hair IS the covering that a woman should put on when praying.

[Mrs. LPW]

What does "because of the Angels" mean to you?

Bump. Stephen? Daniel?

[Hoovie]

Bump. Stephen? Daniel?

Regardless of the meaning, I am not sure that it matters in the context many use it. Because I contend it is not HAIR that is the symbol in question.

It may mean that (heavenly) angels are aware of the covering while a woman is praying or prophesying and aware of the submission to authority it represented/represents.

It may speak of "angels" in a more general sense of deity. As in, 'God sees all things'.

[Mrs. LPW]

Regardless of the meaning, I am not sure that it matters in the context many use it. Because I contend it is not HAIR that is the symbol in question.

It may mean that (heavenly) angels are aware of the covering while when a woman is praying or prophesying and aware of the submission to authority it represented/represents.

It may speak of "angels" in a more general sense of deity. As in God sees all.

Thank you for responding, I appreciate it.
I am just interested in the views on "because of the Angels". Not a debate on hair.

[tstew]

I'm just saying that it is obvious that the entire passage is about head, authority, the angels, and hair specifically. I'm just looking for a concise explanation of the connection (because there has to be one).

[smurfette]

Site: www.HolyMagicHair.com (http://www.holymagichair.com)

-------------------------
Purpose of Holy Magic Hair Blog: Heretical Doctrine

"For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels." - 1 Corinthians 11:10

For years, some Christians, predominantly conservative Baptists, Methodists and Pentecostals, have asserted that the Bible teaches that a woman should not cut her hair. Most born-again Christians believe to the contrary. This debate is based on a passage in 1 Corinthians 11. There are compelling and convincing interpretations on both sides of this issue.

In recent years,however, a dangerous heretical doctrine has emerged claiming that an added reason why a woman's hair should not be cut is because it gives her power with angels citing 1 Corinthians 11:10. Proponents teach that a supernatural power and authority is bestowed by her obedience in not cutting her hair. Some claim this directly results in angelic protection, miracles,healings, special revelation, God's favor and blessing in their loves ... and even can affect one's salvation. Sadly, occult writings are offered up as substantiation for this paradigm.

This blog is an effort to uncover the untruths of this dangerous heretical doctrine that replaces Jesus and the power of God's sovereign Spirit with hair and legalism. We seek only to warn the Body of Christ of this teaching and not to undermine God's call on the lives of those who teach or believe this doctrine. Believers on both sides of the hair issue stand against this extrabiblical heresy.

We also hope to share studies on both sides of the hair issue for our readers.
----------------------------------------------------------

We invite you to read the blog articles that are forthcoming. You will be able to comment about the blogs. These comments will be heavily moderated.

We are also actively seeking bloggers who are willing to donate the talents and time to writing articles on this issue.

Bloggers must commit to not personally attacking the teachers and believers of this doctrine ... but rather help uncover the errors of this doctrine.

Articles should share biblical principles and personal insights about this doctrine in question and the hair issue in general --- by sharing the truth in love.

If you are interested in becoming a blogger for this effort please PM me.

Thank you.

Daniel,
I'm just curious as to why a blog needs to be started on this subject. I just feel like it is kind of exposing our families "dirty laundry" to the general public. They all ready think we are strange. This will just be the icing on the cake.

What if someone google searches something like "long hair do's" and all of the sudden this blog pops up.

This just seems like it needs to be dealt with a little more "privately"

I don't believe the magic hair doctrine. But I still feel loyal to the UPC.

Thanks for listening,
Smurfette

[Pro31:28]

Daniel,
I'm just curious as to why a blog needs to be started on this subject. I just feel like it is kind of exposing our families "dirty laundry" to the general public. They all ready think we are strange. This will just be the icing on the cake.

What if someone google searches something like "long hair do's" and all of the sudden this blog pops up.

This just seems like it needs to be dealt with a little more "privately"

I don't believe the magic hair doctrine. But I still feel loyal to the UPC.

Thanks for listening,
Smurfette


Smurfette,

With all due respect (and I really do mean that), I think that your posting above is part of the problem with the apostolic movement in general. There is very little transparency in the lives of believers. We have to keep our dirty little secrets just that because if anyone ever found out, we would be dis-fellowshipped.
Is it just me or does this sound cult-like?
It wasn't until we left the UPC that we understood that transparency is a far more free way to live than all the secrecy. I have a relative (in upc) that has a problem and we asked if he spoke to his pastor, and said that there was no way he could ever do that. How can he get counseling or prayer if he never talks to anyone about this?

As a movement, I think we should have some accountability, and not just to the men who pander to sermons that border on (or cross into) false doctrine.
But this is all just my opinion...

[Pro31:28]

To add a little levity to the subject...

Am I the only child of the late 70's who wants to finish the title of this thread with "batman"?

"Holy MagicHair Batman!!!"

~Kapow~
~Boom~
~Bang!!!~

If you were born after 1979, or didn't grow up in front of the TV, I apologize... To those of you who do get it :)

[SDG]

Smurfette ...

If Google is what is concerning you ... just type in Apostolic, hair ... cut ... Ruth Reider ...and I guarantee the the first sites that will come up is AFF.

Google brings up AFF with ferocity ... and so I think your concern is understandable but this forum has more influence than a blogger.com site which is a needle in the haystack.

[smurfette]

Smurfette,

With all due respect (and I really do mean that), I think that your posting above is part of the problem with the apostolic movement in general. There is very little transparency in the lives of believers. We have to keep our dirty little secrets just that because if anyone ever found out, we would be dis-fellowshipped.
Is it just me or does this sound cult-like?
It wasn't until we left the UPC that we understood that transparency is a far more free way to live than all the secrecy. I have a relative (in upc) that has a problem and we asked if he spoke to his pastor, and said that there was no way he could ever do that. How can he get counseling or prayer if he never talks to anyone about this?

As a movement, I think we should have some accountability, and not just to the men who pander to sermons that border on (or cross into) false doctrine.
But this is all just my opinion...

I understand what you are saying. I've been out of the UPC for a couple of years now but still believe they do teach some good things. Yes, it does need more accountability. I guess you are right. Holy accountability batman!

[Pro31:28]

I understand what you are saying. I've been out of the UPC for a couple of years now but still believe they do teach some good things. Yes, it does need more accountability. I guess you are right. Holy accountability batman!

I really appreciate you taking the post in the spirit that I meant it. Glad we are on the same page!

What did Robin say when he walked into the First United Pentecostal Church?

"Holy MagicHair Batman!!!"

:happy4th

[Apocrypha]

Site: www.HolyMagicHair.com (http://www.holymagichair.com)

-------------------------
Purpose of Holy Magic Hair Blog: Heretical Doctrine

"For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels." - 1 Corinthians 11:10

For years, some Christians, predominantly conservative Baptists, Methodists and Pentecostals, have asserted that the Bible teaches that a woman should not cut her hair. Most born-again Christians believe to the contrary. This debate is based on a passage in 1 Corinthians 11. There are compelling and convincing interpretations on both sides of this issue.

In recent years,however, a dangerous heretical doctrine has emerged claiming that an added reason why a woman's hair should not be cut is because it gives her power with angels citing 1 Corinthians 11:10. Proponents teach that a supernatural power and authority is bestowed by her obedience in not cutting her hair. Some claim this directly results in angelic protection, miracles,healings, special revelation, God's favor and blessing in their loves ... and even can affect one's salvation. Sadly, occult writings are offered up as substantiation for this paradigm.

This blog is an effort to uncover the untruths of this dangerous heretical doctrine that replaces Jesus and the power of God's sovereign Spirit with hair and legalism. We seek only to warn the Body of Christ of this teaching and not to undermine God's call on the lives of those who teach or believe this doctrine. Believers on both sides of the hair issue stand against this extrabiblical heresy.

We also hope to share studies on both sides of the hair issue for our readers.
----------------------------------------------------------

We invite you to read the blog articles that are forthcoming. You will be able to comment about the blogs. These comments will be heavily moderated.

We are also actively seeking bloggers who are willing to donate the talents and time to writing articles on this issue.

Bloggers must commit to not personally attacking the teachers and believers of this doctrine ... but rather help uncover the errors of this doctrine.

Articles should share biblical principles and personal insights about this doctrine in question and the hair issue in general --- by sharing the truth in love.

If you are interested in becoming a blogger for this effort please PM me.

Thank you.

The audio quality of the youtube clips are too compressed or something, sounds overly "tinny" try increasing the volume when your re-converting the files from their original format to Youtube.

[Praxeas]

What does "because of the Angels" mean to you?
I know one thing....it means "Because of the angels" and "power with angels" means "power with angels" which you will never EVER find in the bible. Nor will one find the laying on of hair for the healing of the sick

[Praxeas]

I posted this already in the other thread
This verse is always taken out of context when they use it. The context is about man being the head of woman. And for this reason she is to have a sign of authority (submission) on her head. The reference to the angels may refer to the six winged angels that cover their face with their wings in the presence of God...it was a sign.

1Co 11:7 For a man ought not to cover his head, since he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of man.
1Co 11:8 For man was not made from woman, but woman from man.
1Co 11:9 Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
1Co 11:10 That is why a wife ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.

In any case I have yet to see anyone tell logically why "because of the angels" means instead "because she has not cut her hair she has special powers and protections from angels"

[Ferd]

so whos site is this?

was it started by one of our own AFF members?




Can I call another site on the net extremely stupid? is that legal? idiotic? moronic? third grade?

just looking for a ruling.

[Praxeas]

Id be happy as a UPCer to debate any OP in the UPC or out over this doctrine of women having supernatural power in their hair and over angels because they did not cut it

[Ferd]

Id be happy as a UPCer to debate any OP in the UPC or out over this doctrine of women having supernatural power in their hair and over angels because they did not cut it

Im with brother Epley on this point. He says it's Hairacy.

Brother E and I dont agree on cut/uncut.

I believe it means long.

[SDG]

Any FCF or NFCFers have a copy of Roxanne Murphy's review of Ruth Reider's Power Before the Throne .... circa 1999?

I'd like to get my hands on it .... pm me if you can.

[Pressing-On]

Any FCF or NFCFers have a copy of Roxanne Murphy's review of Ruth Reider's Power Before the Throne .... circa 1999?

I'd like to get my hands on it .... pm me if you can.


I do, but you'll have to get it from someone else. :D

Had enough bashing. If we can learn to critique with intelligence, wisdom and love - different story. Just saying.....

[Sam]

Women should be covered/veiled "because of the angels (messengers/elders/pastors see Rev. 2:1, 8 etc.)" The angels were God's messengers to those specific congregations listed in chapters 2 and 3 of Revelation. At the time Paul wrote the letter(s) which became our book of 1 Cor. it was considered immodest for a woman to appear in public without a veil. Paul was telling the ladies in the Corinthian assembly to follow current customs of decency and wear a veil when in public. Being in a meeting where there was preaching, teaching, worship, and exercise of the gifts of the Spirit would be considered being in public and the ladies were to wear a veil if they were praying or prophesying. Also at that time, part of heathen worship would be men donning women's clothes and wearing their hair like a woman or women shaving their heads or wearing their hair in the shorter styles usually worn by men. This was also accompanied by acting as the opposite sex in orgies or homosexuality. Paul appealed to them by saying that even the natural world at that time had differences in the hair styles of men and women and they should conform to those styles.

[JN Anderson]

I think my position has been clear. I do not believe in a magic hair doctrine though. Daniel, I think you have better things to do with your time. I do question your motives here though. I mean, does it bother you that bad? If so, you might ask yourself that question a few times. Why does it really bother you?

[Jekyll]

Things like this usually bother a person when they are young and see someone they hold in high esteem privately sin. They cannot reconcile the sin with the person with heaven/hell and it bothers them the rest of their life.

[Cindy]

I understand Daniel to a certain point. I don't question his motives as much as I do his relatibility on certain subjects. I don't think all that is in his heart and mind comes in as well in the written word on this forum, whereas it probably does when he speaks to others. I do believe he has a passion for Jesus and it's hard for him to be silent when he sees and hears things that he feels are contrary to the Word of God. In his fervor, sometimes quick little jabs are easier than taking time to write what he feels in his heart. If I am wrong I am sure he will tell me. I pray for him and sometimes I just wanna hug him.

And he is not the only one of us that have this problem.

[James Griffin]

I understand Daniel to a certain point. I don't question his motives as much as I do his relatibility on certain subjects. I don't think all that is in his heart and mind comes in as well in the written word on this forum, whereas it probably does when he speaks to others. I do believe he has a passion for Jesus and it's hard for him to be silent when he sees and hears things that he feels are contrary to the Word of God. In his fervor, sometimes quick little jabs are easier than taking time to write what he feels in his heart. If I am wrong I am sure he will tell me. I pray for him and sometimes I just wanna hug him.

And he is not the only one of us that have this problem.

Cindy if you are wrong on this point then so am I. :-)

[James Griffin]

The consensus is that no one can state they are 100% sure of its meaning. By far the majority ascribe whether the angels would take offense at the women not showing submission.

Definitions of angels run the gamut though from outside spies, literal angels, bishops of the church, single young men among others.

HOWEVER NOT ONE SINGLE SCHOLAR comes close to the meaning suggested in the holy hair doctrine. And it would take several pages of posts to fully delve into the meaning of 1 Corinthians chapter 11, which would of course not easily lend itself to discussion in a forum format.


Following is a brief summary from a few of the leading Bible commentators on 1Cor 11:10:

People's New Testament

11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head. She ought to have on her head the veil, the badge of submission to authority.
Because of the angels. This clause has puzzled the critics. The idea probably is: There should be no violation of decorum, such as a bareheaded woman in a public assembly would be, lest it offend the ministering angels which are always present, though unseen.

Wesley's Notes
11:10 For this cause also a woman ought to be veiled in the public assemblies, because of the angels - Who attend there, and before whom they should be careful not to do anything indecent or irregular.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
10. power on her head-the kerchief: French couvre chef, head-covering, the emblem of "power on her head"; the sign of her being under man's power, and exercising delegated authority under him. Paul had before his mind the root-connection between the Hebrew terms for "veil" (radid), and "subjection" (radad).
because of the angels-who are present at our Christian assemblies (compare Ps 138:1, "gods," that is, angels), and delight in the orderly subordination of the several ranks of God's worshippers in their respective places, the outward demeanor and dress of the latter being indicative of that inward humility which angels know to be most pleasing to their common Lord (1Co 4:9; Eph 3:10; Ec 5:6). Hammond quotes Chrysostom, "Thou standest with angels; thou singest with them; thou hymnest with them; and yet dost thou stand laughing?" Bengel explains, "As the angels are in relation to God, so the woman is in relation to man. God's face is uncovered; angels in His presence are veiled (Isa 6:2). Man's face is uncovered; woman in His presence is to be veiled. For her not to be so, would, by its indecorousness, offend the angels (Mt 18:10, 31). She, by her weakness, especially needs their ministry; she ought, therefore, to be the more careful not to offend them."

Matthew Henry's Whole Bible Commentary
Thus would the apostle have the women appear In Christian assemblies, even though they spoke there by inspiration, because of the angels, that is, say some, because of the evil angels. The woman was first in the transgression, being deceived by the devil (1 Tim. 2:14), which increased her subjection to man, Gen. 3:16. Now, believe evil angels will be sure to mix in all Christian assemblies, therefore should women wear the token of their shamefacedness and subjection, which in that age and country, was a veil. Others say because of the good angels. Jews and Christians have had an opinion that these ministering spirits are many of them present in their assemblies. Their presence should restrain Christians from all indecencies in the worship of God. Note, We should learn from all to behave in the public assemblies of divine worship so as to express a reverence for God, and a content and satisfaction with that rank in which he has placed us.

Barnes' Notes on the New Testament- (Extremely abbreviated)
Because of the angels. Some have explained this of good angels who were supposed to be present in their assemblies, (see Doddridge) others refer it to evil angels; and others to messengers or spies who, it has been supposed, were present in their public assemblies, and who would report greatly to the disadvantage of the Christian assemblies if the women were seen to be unveiled. I do not know what it means; and I regard it as one of the very few passages in the Bible whose meaning as yet is wholly inexplicable. The most natural interpretation seems to me to be this: "A woman in the public assemblies, and in speaking in the presence of men, should wear a veil--the usual symbol of modesty and subordination --because the angels of God are witnesses of your public worship, (Hebrews 1:14,) and because they know and appreciate the propriety of subordination and order in public assemblies." According to this, it would mean that the simple reason would be that the angels were witnesses of their worship; and that they were the friends of propriety, due subordination, and order; and that they ought to observe these in all assemblies convened for the worship of God.

[Dr. Vaughn]

I have no dog in this fight... my wife doesn't cut her hair, case closed,, she and I both feel very comfortable with that.. However, if she wanted layer her hair or cut off the dead ends.... she would never hear one word from me about it.. as long as the length is not touched... but here is my question....

Can we not learn from nature? I mean just look at how God created the two sexes..... PREDOMNANTLY women can grow hair to their feet if it remains uncut.. or they can grow it substantially more than a man can..... and for men its just not the case... I have seen men with long hair VERY FEW and VERY RARE but even then not much past the shoulders.... never to their knees or their feet....... does this NATURE LESSON not cause one to pause and wonder WHY WOULD GOD cause a womans hair to grow long NATURALLY if this was not his desire for woman?

I can let my hair go uncut for months and it might finally touch my shoulders but it is not naturally inclined to grow as my wifes will......

Is there no place here for NATURE to teach us?

[smurfette]

I have no dog in this fight... my wife doesn't cut her hair, case closed,, she and I both feel very comfortable with that.. However, if she wanted layer her hair or cut off the dead ends.... she would never hear one word from me about it.. as long as the length is not touched... but here is my question....

Can we not learn from nature? I mean just look at how God created the two sexes..... PREDOMNANTLY women can grow hair to their feet if it remains uncut.. or they can grow it substantially more than a man can..... and for men its just not the case... I have seen men with long hair VERY FEW and VERY RARE but even then not much past the shoulders.... never to their knees or their feet....... does this NATURE LESSON not cause one to pause and wonder WHY WOULD GOD cause a womans hair to grow long NATURALLY if this was not his desire for woman?

I can let my hair go uncut for months and it might finally touch my shoulders but it is not naturally inclined to grow as my wifes will......

Is there no place here for NATURE to teach us?

You have a very good point. Males also tend to go bald as females don't. Sometimes you will see a lady with male pattern baldness, but that is not the norm like it is for men. I've also seen old hippy guys with uncut hair and it seems to have a stopping point that is not too long.

One the other hand, I have seen some young guys with the most beautiful head of long hair that has made me envious!

[Ron]

I have no dog in this fight... my wife doesn't cut her hair, case closed,, she and I both feel very comfortable with that.. However, if she wanted layer her hair or cut off the dead ends.... she would never hear one word from me about it.. as long as the length is not touched... but here is my question....

Can we not learn from nature? I mean just look at how God created the two sexes..... PREDOMNANTLY women can grow hair to their feet if it remains uncut.. or they can grow it substantially more than a man can..... and for men its just not the case... I have seen men with long hair VERY FEW and VERY RARE but even then not much past the shoulders.... never to their knees or their feet....... does this NATURE LESSON not cause one to pause and wonder WHY WOULD GOD cause a womans hair to grow long NATURALLY if this was not his desire for woman?

I can let my hair go uncut for months and it might finally touch my shoulders but it is not naturally inclined to grow as my wifes will......

Is there no place here for NATURE to teach us?

You have a interesting point.

[Neck]

Site: www.HolyMagicHair.com (http://www.holymagichair.com)

-------------------------
Purpose of Holy Magic Hair Blog: Heretical Doctrine

"For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels." - 1 Corinthians 11:10

For years, some Christians, predominantly conservative Baptists, Methodists and Pentecostals, have asserted that the Bible teaches that a woman should not cut her hair. Most born-again Christians believe to the contrary. This debate is based on a passage in 1 Corinthians 11. There are compelling and convincing interpretations on both sides of this issue.

In recent years,however, a dangerous heretical doctrine has emerged claiming that an added reason why a woman's hair should not be cut is because it gives her power with angels citing 1 Corinthians 11:10. Proponents teach that a supernatural power and authority is bestowed by her obedience in not cutting her hair. Some claim this directly results in angelic protection, miracles,healings, special revelation, God's favor and blessing in their loves ... and even can affect one's salvation. Sadly, occult writings are offered up as substantiation for this paradigm.

This blog is an effort to uncover the untruths of this dangerous heretical doctrine that replaces Jesus and the power of God's sovereign Spirit with hair and legalism. We seek only to warn the Body of Christ of this teaching and not to undermine God's call on the lives of those who teach or believe this doctrine. Believers on both sides of the hair issue stand against this extrabiblical heresy.

We also hope to share studies on both sides of the hair issue for our readers.
----------------------------------------------------------

We invite you to read the blog articles that are forthcoming. You will be able to comment about the blogs. These comments will be heavily moderated.

We are also actively seeking bloggers who are willing to donate the talents and time to writing articles on this issue.

Bloggers must commit to not personally attacking the teachers and believers of this doctrine ... but rather help uncover the errors of this doctrine.

Articles should share biblical principles and personal insights about this doctrine in question and the hair issue in general --- by sharing the truth in love.

If you are interested in becoming a blogger for this effort please PM me.

Thank you.



************************************

I want to hear testimonies of the ladies on this thread where their uncut hair has brought them a miracle.

Stand up and show yourself approved.

[Dr. Vaughn]

You have a interesting point.

Bro. Ron, didn't Paul happen to use the same argument... Doth not even nature itself teach us? I didn't think of that until my earlier post.... but I truly believe that nature teaches us sooo many things... for example nature teaches about the Ressurection.... all plant life dies in the winter but as soon as the SUN shines upon it, that life will ressurect...... there are sooo many things that nature teaches us.... God created a womans hair totally different than a mans head of hair... Why would we alter that creation?

[Mrs. LPW]

Thank you for your response. This was what I wanted.


The consensus is that no one can state they are 100% sure of its meaning. By far the majority ascribe whether the angels would take offense at the women not showing submission.

Definitions of angels run the gamut though from outside spies, literal angels, bishops of the church, single young men among others.

HOWEVER NOT ONE SINGLE SCHOLAR comes close to the meaning suggested in the holy hair doctrine. And it would take several pages of posts to fully delve into the meaning of 1 Corinthians chapter 11, which would of course not easily lend itself to discussion in a forum format.


Following is a brief summary from a few of the leading Bible commentators on 1Cor 11:10:

People's New Testament

11:10 For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head. She ought to have on her head the veil, the badge of submission to authority.
Because of the angels. This clause has puzzled the critics. The idea probably is: There should be no violation of decorum, such as a bareheaded woman in a public assembly would be, lest it offend the ministering angels which are always present, though unseen.

Wesley's Notes
11:10 For this cause also a woman ought to be veiled in the public assemblies, because of the angels - Who attend there, and before whom they should be careful not to do anything indecent or irregular.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
10. power on her head-the kerchief: French couvre chef, head-covering, the emblem of "power on her head"; the sign of her being under man's power, and exercising delegated authority under him. Paul had before his mind the root-connection between the Hebrew terms for "veil" (radid), and "subjection" (radad).
because of the angels-who are present at our Christian assemblies (compare Ps 138:1, "gods," that is, angels), and delight in the orderly subordination of the several ranks of God's worshippers in their respective places, the outward demeanor and dress of the latter being indicative of that inward humility which angels know to be most pleasing to their common Lord (1Co 4:9; Eph 3:10; Ec 5:6). Hammond quotes Chrysostom, "Thou standest with angels; thou singest with them; thou hymnest with them; and yet dost thou stand laughing?" Bengel explains, "As the angels are in relation to God, so the woman is in relation to man. God's face is uncovered; angels in His presence are veiled (Isa 6:2). Man's face is uncovered; woman in His presence is to be veiled. For her not to be so, would, by its indecorousness, offend the angels (Mt 18:10, 31). She, by her weakness, especially needs their ministry; she ought, therefore, to be the more careful not to offend them."

Matthew Henry's Whole Bible Commentary
Thus would the apostle have the women appear In Christian assemblies, even though they spoke there by inspiration, because of the angels, that is, say some, because of the evil angels. The woman was first in the transgression, being deceived by the devil (1 Tim. 2:14), which increased her subjection to man, Gen. 3:16. Now, believe evil angels will be sure to mix in all Christian assemblies, therefore should women wear the token of their shamefacedness and subjection, which in that age and country, was a veil. Others say because of the good angels. Jews and Christians have had an opinion that these ministering spirits are many of them present in their assemblies. Their presence should restrain Christians from all indecencies in the worship of God. Note, We should learn from all to behave in the public assemblies of divine worship so as to express a reverence for God, and a content and satisfaction with that rank in which he has placed us.

Barnes' Notes on the New Testament- (Extremely abbreviated)
Because of the angels. Some have explained this of good angels who were supposed to be present in their assemblies, (see Doddridge) others refer it to evil angels; and others to messengers or spies who, it has been supposed, were present in their public assemblies, and who would report greatly to the disadvantage of the Christian assemblies if the women were seen to be unveiled. I do not know what it means; and I regard it as one of the very few passages in the Bible whose meaning as yet is wholly inexplicable. The most natural interpretation seems to me to be this: "A woman in the public assemblies, and in speaking in the presence of men, should wear a veil--the usual symbol of modesty and subordination --because the angels of God are witnesses of your public worship, (Hebrews 1:14,) and because they know and appreciate the propriety of subordination and order in public assemblies." According to this, it would mean that the simple reason would be that the angels were witnesses of their worship; and that they were the friends of propriety, due subordination, and order; and that they ought to observe these in all assemblies convened for the worship of God.

[tstew]

Thanks as well for all the responses. I was not particularly interested in starting or participating in a debate. I have just heard a lot of passion about the passage, but there does seem to be some ambiguity as to exactly what everything means. I just look to glean from some of the scholars and other Apostolics.

[Carpenter]

Things like this usually bother a person when they are young and see someone they hold in high esteem privately sin. They cannot reconcile the sin with the person with heaven/hell and it bothers them the rest of their life.

I am not sure for the rest of their life is accurate. The maturing process takes care of lots of stuff.

I used to sing that "You lead me to believe..." song by the Sweet Comfort Band about quite a few guys only to realize someone could now probably sing that song about me.

I suppose it all boils down to what represents the faith you have in someone, I remember being devistated when someone I thought was spiritual have worldly music playing on their radio. I matured out of it not having it affect me for the rest of my life.

Sometimes we fight for the standards that we just can't keep...while the wild war rages with the fear and the doubt and we try to move faster to find a way out, we admit if we stumble, the'll just cast us aside market our weakness and shatter our pride...but then we realize that we are just a Lunatic Friend...

[SDG]

Any FCF or NFCFers have a copy of Roxanne Murphy's review of Ruth Reider's Power Before the Throne .... circa 1999?

I'd like to get my hands on it .... pm me if you can.


BUMP

[scotty]

If Google is what is concerning you ... just type in Apostolic, hair ... cut ... Ruth Reider ...and I guarantee the the first sites that will come up is AFF.

Google brings up AFF with ferocity ... and so I think your concern is understandable but this forum has more influence than a blogger.com site which is a needle in the haystack.

If the suggestion that this place has any kind of influence on the Apostolic movement is true then the Apostolic movement has become shallow. I am a member of several Apostolic forums, boards, sites and work with different Apostolic entities outside of UPC. No where else have I ever seen the division and anomosity that I have seen since coming to this board. I am sorry, but if AFF is representive of the Apostolic movement, then I pray Jesus, come now, because our soul winning days are done.

[Hoovie]

I understand Daniel to a certain point. I don't question his motives as much as I do his relatibility on certain subjects. I don't think all that is in his heart and mind comes in as well in the written word on this forum, whereas it probably does when he speaks to others. I do believe he has a passion for Jesus and it's hard for him to be silent when he sees and hears things that he feels are contrary to the Word of God. In his fervor, sometimes quick little jabs are easier than taking time to write what he feels in his heart. If I am wrong I am sure he will tell me. I pray for him and sometimes I just wanna hug him.

And he is not the only one of us that have this problem.

Nevermind DA, can I have a hug??:happy4th

[ChurchMouse]

Site: www.HolyMagicHair.com (http://www.holymagichair.com)

-------------------------
Purpose of Holy Magic Hair Blog: Heretical Doctrine

"For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels." - 1 Corinthians 11:10

For years, some Christians, predominantly conservative Baptists, Methodists and Pentecostals, have asserted that the Bible teaches that a woman should not cut her hair. Most born-again Christians believe to the contrary. This debate is based on a passage in 1 Corinthians 11. There are compelling and convincing interpretations on both sides of this issue.

In recent years,however, a dangerous heretical doctrine has emerged claiming that an added reason why a woman's hair should not be cut is because it gives her power with angels citing 1 Corinthians 11:10. Proponents teach that a supernatural power and authority is bestowed by her obedience in not cutting her hair. Some claim this directly results in angelic protection, miracles,healings, special revelation, God's favor and blessing in their loves ... and even can affect one's salvation. Sadly, occult writings are offered up as substantiation for this paradigm.

This blog is an effort to uncover the untruths of this dangerous heretical doctrine that replaces Jesus and the power of God's sovereign Spirit with hair and legalism. We seek only to warn the Body of Christ of this teaching and not to undermine God's call on the lives of those who teach or believe this doctrine. Believers on both sides of the hair issue stand against this extrabiblical heresy.

We also hope to share studies on both sides of the hair issue for our readers.
----------------------------------------------------------

We invite you to read the blog articles that are forthcoming. You will be able to comment about the blogs. These comments will be heavily moderated.

We are also actively seeking bloggers who are willing to donate the talents and time to writing articles on this issue.

Bloggers must commit to not personally attacking the teachers and believers of this doctrine ... but rather help uncover the errors of this doctrine.

Articles should share biblical principles and personal insights about this doctrine in question and the hair issue in general --- by sharing the truth in love.

If you are interested in becoming a blogger for this effort please PM me.

Thank you.



You truly are pathetic.

[Hoovie]

I am not sure for the rest of their life is accurate. The maturing process takes care of lots of stuff.

I used to sing that "You lead me to believe..." song by the Sweet Comfort Band about quite a few guys only to realize someone could now probably sing that song about me.

I suppose it all boils down to what represents the faith you have in someone, I remember being devistated when someone I thought was spiritual have worldly music playing on their radio. I matured out of it not having it affect me for the rest of my life.

Sometimes we fight for the standards that we just can't keep...while the wild war rages with the fear and the doubt and we try to move faster to find a way out, we admit if we stumble, the'll just cast us aside market our weakness and shatter our pride...but then we realize that we are just a Lunatic Friend...

You said a mouthful in this post.

I remember having the same feelings about hearing someone listening to "worldly" music. I was wrong in judging them so harshly.

Sometimes I rejoice in the freedom I once despised... :happy4th

Oh, la la la, di da da
La la, di da da da dum

Chorus:
Sing us a song you're the piano man
Sing us a song tonight
Well we're all in the mood for a melody
And you got us feeling alright

[SDG]

You truly are pathetic.

And your fraternity means everything to you ...

[Sam]

BUMP

The closest thing to it that I could find is
http://www.spiritualabuse.org/issues/rieder.html
and on there "Sarge" says she has looked and can't find it.

[SDG]

VISIT OUR HMH'S MYSPACE PAGE ... (http://myspace.com/holymagichair)

[Rhoni]

http://www.gotquestions.org/images/GQlogo.gif
www.GotQuestions.org (http://www.gotquestions.org/)


Question: "What does the Bible say about hair length? Do men have to have short hair, and do women have to have long hair?"

Answer: A passage that mentions hair length in the New Testament is 1 Corinthians 11:3-15. The Corinthian church was in the middle of a controversy about the roles of men and women and the proper order of authority within the church.

In the Corinthian society, women showed submission to their husbands by wearing a veil. It seems that some of the women in the church were discarding their veils, something that only pagan temple prostitutes or other rebellious women would do. For a woman to come to church without her veil would be dishonoring to her husband, as well as culturally confusing. By the same token, for a man to wear a veil or a turban or to somehow have his head covered during worship was not culturally acceptable in Corinth.

Paul appeals to biology to illustrate the appropriateness of following the cultural standards: women naturally have longer hair than men, and men are much more prone to baldness. That is, God created women with a “natural veil” and men with an “uncovered head.” If a woman spurns the mark of her submission (the veil), she may as well shave her head (verse 6). His point is that if the culture says a woman should not be bald (going without her natural covering), then why would she reject that same culture’s standard of wearing a veil (going without her cultural covering)?

For the man’s part, it is unnatural for him to have “long hair” (verse 14). His hair is naturally shorter (and thinner) than the woman’s. This corresponds to the Corinthian tradition of men not wearing a head covering during worship. Paul urges the church to conform to the generally held ideas of male and female appearance.

While hair length is not the main point of this passage of scripture, we glean the following applications from it: 1) We should adhere to the culturally accepted indicators of gender. Men should look like men, and women should look like women. God is not interested in nor does He accept “unisex.” 2) Don’t rebel against the culture just for the sake of rebelling, in the name of some sort of Christian “liberty.” It does matter how we present ourselves. 3) Women are to voluntarily place themselves under the authority of men in the church. 4) We should not reverse the God-ordained roles of men and women.

Our culture today does not use veils or head coverings to indicate submission to authority. The roles of men and women have not changed, but the way we symbolize those roles changes with the culture. Rather than establish legalistic standards of hair length, we must remember that the real issue is our heart condition, our individual response to the authority of God, His ordained order, and our choice to walk in submission to that authority. Men and women have different, God-ordained roles, and part of that difference is shown by their hair. A man's hair should look masculine. A woman's hair should look feminine.

© Copyright 2002-2008 Got Questions Ministries.

[ChTatum]

"because of the angels....."

Just a thought, has anyone thought about the definition for angel?

[CC1]

DA, what does 11:10 mean to you?

I don't know about DA but to me it usually means time to start thinking about what to eat for lunch!:tease

[tstew]

If the suggestion that this place has any kind of influence on the Apostolic movement is true then the Apostolic movement has become shallow. I am a member of several Apostolic forums, boards, sites and work with different Apostolic entities outside of UPC. No where else have I ever seen the division and anomosity that I have seen since coming to this board. I am sorry, but if AFF is representive of the Apostolic movement, then I pray Jesus, come now, because our soul winning days are done.

Scotty, I understand some of what you are saying, but I don't really agree with your characterization of the people of AFF. As I have looked at different websites and churches that many of these members are representative of and even pastor, I have been impressed at how effectively many are advancing and holding onto fundamental Apostolic doctrine. I have certainly seen many ministries whose soul winning days are far from done. I am blessed to be a part of one.
I think a lot of the debates stem from interpretations of a few teachings being weighed and discussed, but as is usual in any online forum you do not get the full sense of who a person is and what they do.
The people here seem to be willing to discuss things that were considered non-discussable.

[tstew]

I don't know about DA but to me it usually means time to start thinking about what to eat for lunch!:tease

I'm a big boy, so that starts at around 9:15 for me.:evilglee

[SOUNWORTHY]

4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.
---------------------------------------------

There is reference to hair here, but only to support the custom of veiling when praying or prophesying.

"...but if it be a shame"

to have short hair or shaved head, let her be covered.

Not being funny but just curious. How about men who sit in church with their caps or hats on. I had a pastor (for a very short time) who sat in men's prayer with his cap on. I also quit going to a church because the drummer and guitar player played in the orchestra with caps and hats on. Would this fall under dishonoring his head or disrespect for God and his house?

Even though I believe in long hair, for women that is, I' not sure a woman would be lost if she trimmed her hair. I don't believe short is trimmed but CUT.

[ChTatum]

I have no dog in this fight... my wife doesn't cut her hair, case closed,, she and I both feel very comfortable with that.. However, if she wanted layer her hair or cut off the dead ends.... she would never hear one word from me about it.. as long as the length is not touched... but here is my question....

Can we not learn from nature? I mean just look at how God created the two sexes..... PREDOMNANTLY women can grow hair to their feet if it remains uncut.. or they can grow it substantially more than a man can..... and for men its just not the case... I have seen men with long hair VERY FEW and VERY RARE but even then not much past the shoulders.... never to their knees or their feet....... does this NATURE LESSON not cause one to pause and wonder WHY WOULD GOD cause a womans hair to grow long NATURALLY if this was not his desire for woman?

I can let my hair go uncut for months and it might finally touch my shoulders but it is not naturally inclined to grow as my wifes will......

Is there no place here for NATURE to teach us?

You still shaving in spite of nature?

LOL!

The Word is still a two-edged sword.

[chosenbyone]

Since, this has been such a hot topic on AFF, I decided to read several opinions found on the web regarding women's hair. The excerpt below was from an article I read this evening, which had an interesting take on what "because of the angels" meant in 1 Corinthians.

It was a little lengthy, but worth the time to read.

Because of the angels

In the eleventh chapter of 1 Corinthians we find a remarkable teaching which ought to stir the heart of every woman. The Lord says, "For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels." The word power here means authority. A woman ought to have a symbol of her husband's authority or her father's authority on her head. That is, a woman should wear long hair to indicate that she is submissive to the authority God has put over her. And this special reason mentioned here for a woman having long hair is that angels look on, and for their sakes a woman needs to have long hair.

The angels of God are all about us. People often think of angels as remaining in Heaven and only coming to earth on rare occasions to bring some message. But that is not true. The chief business of the angels is on earth, not in Heaven. Heb. 1:13,14 shows that the angels are not sitting on the right hand of God but "are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?" The angels are ministering spirits, sent to wait on us who will one day fully inherit our salvation.

Angels appeared to Jacob on a ladder reaching from Heaven, as the young man slept with his head on a stone, and "behold the angels of God ascending and descending on it." Angels whose work is on earth ascend to Heaven evidently to make report, but they descend again to take up their work. When Elisha, the prophet of God, was at Dothan, unseen to other eyes the angels of God made a ring of fire around the city with their "horses and chariots of fire" (2 Kings 6:17). The Lord Jesus says about little children, that "their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven" (Matt. 18:10). And Psa. 34:7 says that "the angel of the Lord encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them."

So angels are all round about us. And they are surpassingly concerned about our lives. Our eyes are blinded! We think that the other world, the unseen world and spirit beings are far, far away, but that is not true. And how angels do listen when a woman kneels to pray! For the sake of angels who always are near, Christian women should especially be careful to have long hair--"because of the angels," the Scripture says.

How are angels concerned about a woman's hair? I think that not only would angels be grieved by this mark of rebellion against husband or father and against God, but angels would be tempted, likewise, to rebel.

We know that some angels are fallen. I understand the Bible to teach that Satan himself was Lucifer, an archangel who became ambitious and rebellious and said, "I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God" (Isa. 14:13). He wanted to be like God (Isa. 14:14), and was not willing to be subject, just as many women want to be equal to their husbands instead of being subject to them. And Satan fell. So a great group of angels fell, too. Rev. 12:4 may suggest that a third of the angels fell. I do not know how many. But actually, these angels are now chained in darkness, awaiting judgment (2 Pet. 2:4). Angels can fall, and in the past angels have fallen into sin.

This is especially sad when we remember that Christ never became an angel and did not die for angels. There is nothing said in the Bible about the redemption of fallen angels. If God has any plans for saving angels, He has not revealed them to us.

What sins did angels commit when they fell? They did not get drunk. They did not commit adultery, for it seems that angels are sexless beings who neither marry nor are given in marriage (Matt. 23:30). We suppose that heavenly angels, accustomed to the beauty and glory of Heaven, are never covetous. No, the sin of angels is the sin of rebellion.

Thus, when a woman with bobbed hair and a rebellious heart comes to pray, angels who are near and see her head and see her heart are tempted to sin; are tempted to commit the sin which such women commit, the sin of rebellion against authority. Because of the angels, every woman should wear long hair and be careful that she does not have a rebellious heart lest she should be a curse to the angels God has sent to be our ministers and guardians.

From this Scripture it becomes evident how hateful is the symbol of bobbed hair to God. And how it reveals the stubborn self-will of the modern woman who is no longer willing to take the place God assigned to godly women. I beseech the reader that if you are a woman you consider how God must feel toward this mark of rebellion, bobbed hair. No wonder that 1 Cor. 11:5 says that every woman with a bobbed head has a dishonoured head. And 1 Cor. 11:6 says that it is a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven and that she ought to have a covering. And 1 Cor. 11:15 says that long hair is given her for this covering. Bobbed Hair By John R. Rice http://www.gotothebible.com/HTML/Sermons/bobbed.html

[tstew]

You still shaving in spite of nature?

LOL!

The Word is still a two-edged sword.

Never thought of that :ursofunny

[Nahum]

You truly are pathetic.

Why? Why do you think he is pathetic?

Wow!

[ChTatum]

Never thought of that :ursofunny

Yep, encouraging people to think is vital. Some do not think their position through.

Present company excepted, of course.:tease

[tstew]

Yep, encouraging people to think is vital. Some do not think their position through.

Present company excepted, of course.:tease

Bearded Apostolics everywhere salute you, sir.

[ChTatum]

I am clean shaven at present, but it does grow daily....
You know, nature being what it is.

I will probably grow it back in cooler weather.

[Neck]

************************************

I want to hear testimonies of the ladies on this thread where their uncut hair has brought them a miracle.

Stand up and show yourself approved.

Where are all the testimonies?

None!