to DM concerning Daniel

[Sister Alvear]

One of the primary words for mercy in the Hebrew scriptures is Chesed. It has the meaning of kindness, graciousness or mercy.

I am addressing DM.
I do not know you and you do not know me. I hold to what may be termed by many outdated standards...I do not cut my hair and have been over 40 years on the mission field. So I think I can say I speak as one that has gleaned the fields.

I think LS has a wonderful ministry...I followed the news when he had the heart attack and read of the great wonders of our Lord. I have heard many awesome sermons by him and have personally witnessed him under the anointing of the HG.

I think however most of us do not agree with Magic hair...even our dear Brother Epley made that statement on another thread a while back.

If we see and feel the bible teaches long hair then the bible and the bible alone is enough. We do not have to go to witches or things like that for our information. I simply use long hair because I personally feel my hair was given to me for a covering...

HOWEVER I do not teach my ladies about witches ...our people came from the depths of devil worship...They are sure not going to do something because a witch says to do it.

I have precious sisters that feel quite different than I do. Does that make me more spiritual than them? Does my long hair give me a free pass to that city? I think not. I do it in simple obedience to what I feel is right...if I am wrong I will just tell the Lord I didn´t cut it just in case...

Will I still need mercy on that day? Yes, dear one I most certainly will...
We are only clay vessels at our very best...

Daniel is young...yes it is true he jumps in and says things...but that is just our Daniel.
I do not belong to the UPC but have nothing bad to say about them...although I do not personally agree to some things…however I am sure they would not agree to some things about my church… I know being the leader of many it is so easy to make so mistakes...so hard to keep things headed in the right direction. Unless you have been under the pressures of leadership you will never know the nights a leader stays awake wondering if he/she made the right decision.
If you have good feelings about the UPC express them…let other s know what they mean to you. If you were wronged, you forgave…

Forgivness is the high road...

Blessings to you...

[dizzyde]

Daniel is still my most Apostolic friend! Love ya Dan! :happy4th

[Sister Alvear]

I don´t know where the thread went where he was addressing Daniel but had to speak up for him!

[Dedicated Mind]

Dear Sis Alvear, I appreciate your kind words. I like Dan, but attacking LS has been the straw that broke the camel's back. I've followed Dan's arguments about grace and baptism and I appreciate a different perspective, but to ridicule an annointed man of God with many miracles that confirm his ministry is just too much. Yes, Dan is young but someone has to speak out on this forum when he continually attacks the institution that is responsible for the salvation of millions of souls. I hope we all can make it to heaven.

[SDG]

Dear Sis Alvear, I appreciate your kind words. I like Dan, but attacking LS has been the straw that broke the camel's back. I've followed Dan's arguments about grace and baptism and I appreciate a different perspective, but to ridicule an annointed man of God with many miracles that confirm his ministry is just too much. Yes, Dan is young but someone has to speak out on this forum when he continually attacks the institution that is responsible for the salvation of millions of souls. I hope we all can make it to heaven.

Sorry but most who followed that thread know of the two posters that ridiculed LS personally ... both my friends ... but don't confuse their remarks w/ mine.

I have not until this moment received any pms or infractions for ridiculing LS personally.

I will ridicule the notion that this is not damnable heresy and speak out strongly against the errors in it ... including calling the doctrine dangerous, flaky, damnable, false, etc.

Your problem w/ me might be that I started the thread and that it has been the focus of controversy the last 2 days.

Just pointing out my perceptions on this one. ....

[Dedicated Mind]

BTW, my thread about Dan got deleted by admin. not sure why.

Sis Alvear, the bible teaches women should have long hair, then it says "because of the angels". That last phrase is open to interpretation. Long hair on women is linked by Paul to angels. We may have dfferent interpretations, but I would sooner listen to a man like brother Stoneking than to listen to someone like Dan or brother Epley for that matter. I think that by virtue of his ministry bro LS's interpretation has greater weight. Many may disagree but I would rather listen to what he has to say about the subject than anyone else.

[SDG]

BTW, my thread about Dan got deleted by admin. not sure why.

Sis Alvear, the bible teaches women should have long hair, then it says "because of the angels". That last phrase is open to interpretation. Long hair on women is linked by Paul to angels. We may have dfferent interpretations, but I would sooner listen to a man like brother Stoneking than to listen to someone like Dan or brother Epley for that matter. I think that by virtue of his ministry bro LS's interpretation has greater weight. Many may disagree but I would rather listen to what he has to say about the subject than anyone else.

Maybe because in admins mind, DM, you practiced exactly what you falsely accused me of w/ LS ... making it personal?

[Dedicated Mind]

Sorry but most who followed that thread know of the two posters that ridiculed LS personally ... both my friends ... but don't confuse their remarks w/ mine.

I have not until this moment received any pms or infractions for ridiculing LS personally.

I will ridicule the notion that this is not damnable heresy and speak out strongly against the errors in it ... including calling the doctrine dangerous, flaky, damnable, false, etc.

Your problem w/ me might be that I started the thread and that it has been the focus of controversy the last 2 days.

Just pointing out my perceptions on this one. ....

Dan, the fact that you even brought up the thread criticizing bro Stoneking is enough. You then inserted the word "magic" which LS never used. You then want to start a blog using LS. Like I told Sis Alvear, I would Rather listen To bro Stoneking on the issue than your opinion just by virtue of his ministry.
"because of the angels" is open to interpretation.

[Dedicated Mind]

Maybe because in admins mind, DM, you practiced exactly what you falsely accused me of w/ LS ... making it personal?

I think it got deleted because Indy started likening the miracles by LS as a work of the debil.

[SDG]

Dan, the fact that you even brought up the thread criticizing bro Stoneking is enough. You then inserted the word "magic" which LS never used. You then want to start a blog using LS. Like I told Sis Alvear, I would Rather listen To bro Stoneking on the issue than your opinion just by virtue of his ministry.
"because of the angels" is open to interpretation.

Sir you said I ridiculed him personally yet cannot give an example other than a common practice we all engage in of discussing the contents of a person's or groups public messages.

A forum may not be the right setting for you DM ...

Be upset w/ my delivery or focus ...

and if you want to follow signs and wonders and a man ... so be it ...

but don't perpetuate falsehoods.

I along w/ many posters and moderators spoke about the content of his message and criticized it's validity and veracity ....

if you have a problem w/ that then address this entire forum w/ your judgmentalism about judgmentalism.

[SDG]

I think it got deleted because Indy started likening the miracles by LS as a work of the debil.

Again that was someone else ... although many posters are concerned with it being rooted in occultism as the video indicates that this doctrine is supported through occultic writings.

[Dedicated Mind]

Sorry but most who followed that thread know of the two posters that ridiculed LS personally ... both my friends ... but don't confuse their remarks w/ mine.

I have not until this moment received any pms or infractions for ridiculing LS personally.

I will ridicule the notion that this is not damnable heresy and speak out strongly against the errors in it ... including calling the doctrine dangerous, flaky, damnable, false, etc.

Your problem w/ me might be that I started the thread and that it has been the focus of controversy the last 2 days.

Just pointing out my perceptions on this one. ....

Attacking the man's word and saying it is heresy is the same as a personal attack when the scripture is clearly open to interpretation.

[SDG]

Don't fool yourself DM it was deleted because you came after me

[Dedicated Mind]

Don't fool yourself DM it was deleted because you came after me

I'm not concerned about my thread about you being closed. The real issue is why your attack on LS was allowed to go on for so long. Probably nothing to do with a liberal admin that didn't mind a conservative message being harpooned.

[Ron]

I'm not concerned about my thread about you being closed. The real issue is why your attack on LS was allowed to go on for so long. Probably nothing to do with a liberal admin that didn't mind a conservative message being harpooned.

DM, just a heads up to you Admin can ban you for those statements.
If you have a question or concern, & can not get it resolved, use the post report tool or PM Admin.

[SDG]

Attacking the man's word and saying it is heresy is the same as a personal attack when the scripture is clearly open to interpretation.

Sorry most here are able to compartmentalize DM ... and separate the two.

Did Paul and the first century church personally attack the doctrine of ministers who were Judaizers and Gnostics ... you betcha ...

They did not tolerate it as "creative" differences ...

These issues were so important that entire councils met to address them (Acts 15)... entire passages and epistles address false doctrine of people who did not fail in their religious zeal or practiced miracles but rather taught doctrine contrary to the Word of God.

These were not pagans ... or dreaded "Trinitarians"

their message of Jesus Christ plus something else ... did not sit well w/ the Church.

Paul also addressed this question in his Epistle to Galatians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_Galatians) in which he condemned those who insisted that the proselyte ritual had to be followed for justification as "false believers" (Galatians 2:4)

They thought the doctrine of the Judaizers and Gnostics were inconsistent, brought light by addressing their errors and even suggested disfellowshipping them ...

I find it interesting that some who have isolated themselves from the rest of mainstream of Christianity for issues I believe of much less import ... will turn a blind eye because of who the messenger may be ....

[Michael Phelps]

BTW, my thread about Dan got deleted by admin. not sure why.

Sis Alvear, the bible teaches women should have long hair, then it says "because of the angels". That last phrase is open to interpretation. Long hair on women is linked by Paul to angels. We may have dfferent interpretations, but I would sooner listen to a man like brother Stoneking than to listen to someone like Dan or brother Epley for that matter. I think that by virtue of his ministry bro LS's interpretation has greater weight. Many may disagree but I would rather listen to what he has to say about the subject than anyone else.

So...you just arbitrarily choose WHO you want to listen to? How about checking their message against the Word?

So sad..........

[SDG]

So...you just arbitrarily choose WHO you want to listen to? How about checking their message against the Word?

So sad..........

I'm not sure truth matters anymore ... we can dispute articulation, delivery, etc. but if the measure is just who said it ... and not the Word then what are we left with?

[ManOfWord]

I think it got deleted because Indy started likening the miracles by LS as a work of the debil.

The thread was deleted and is under Admin review because you should have taken your personal issue with DA to PM. I did not see Indy liken the miracles of LS as a work of the devil. You need to be more accurate in your postings. Just a word to the wise. :D

[Michael Phelps]

The thread was deleted and is under Admin review because you should have taken your personal issue with DA to PM. I did not see Indy liken the miracles of LS as a work of the devil. You need to be more accurate in your postings. Just a word to the wise. :D

Truth doesn't matter, MOW........say what you need to to prove your point. Make up statistics, misquote other's posts, do what you need to to protect your hero. You should know that's how it works!:bliss

[Dedicated Mind]

Sorry most here are able to compartmentalize DM ... and separate the two.

Did Paul and the first century church personally attack the doctrine of ministers who were Judaizers and Gnostics ... you betcha ...

They did not tolerate it as "creative" differences ...

These issues were so important that entire councils met to address them (Acts 15)... entire passages and epistles address false doctrine of people who did not fail in their religious zeal or practiced miracles but rather taught doctrine contrary to the Word of God.

These were not pagans ... or dreaded "Trinitarians"

their message of Jesus Christ plus something else ... did not sit well w/ the Church.

Paul also addressed this question in his Epistle to Galatians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epistle_to_Galatians) in which he condemned those who insisted that the proselyte ritual had to be followed for justification as "false believers" (Galatians 2:4)

They thought the doctrine of the Judaizers and Gnostics were inconsistent, brought light by addressing their errors and even suggested disfellowshipping them ...

I find it interesting that some who have isolated themselves from the rest of mainstream of Christianity for issues I believe of much less import ... will turn a blind eye because of who the messenger may be ....

I don't see where teaching a woman should have uncut hair and that God's presence could be manifest in their life is teaching false doctrine or that it is akin to judaizers and gnostics that were forsaking the blood of Christ.

[Cindy]

Is it possible for anyone to just bow out gracefully and let it go?

[rgcraig]

Attacking the man's word and saying it is heresy is the same as a personal attack when the scripture is clearly open to interpretation.

Wow - wished that worked both ways!!

[Cindy]

Stop, please just stop.

[Admin]

I'm not concerned about my thread about you being closed. The real issue is why your attack on LS was allowed to go on for so long. Probably nothing to do with a liberal admin that didn't mind a conservative message being harpooned.
First off. If you have a problem with an Admin decision take it in PM to the Admin and not here.

Second, it was temporarily deleted for review and may be re-opened because some felt this was a personal matter that should be resolved in PM

Third, if you see any name calling or slanderous personal attacks on LS feel free to USE THE POST REPORT TOOL

As you can see...or maybe you can't, we've closed one thread. We've handed out some warnings and infractions. So the complaint that the Admin didn't mind something because they are liberals is unwarranted.

Lastly, the Admin are not on 24/7 to monitor you guys. Nor do the Admin read through the thousands of thousands of posts which is one reason for you people using the Post reporting tool as we have said over and over and over. Short of a thread closure or delete, you will probably not see the infractions or warnings handed out either so please don't assume nothing is done.

There is nothing wrong with addressing what any minister has said or taught including Lee Stoneking, if those teachings are thought to be false.

[SDG]

I don't see where teaching a woman should have uncut hair and that God's presence could be manifest in their life is teaching false doctrine or that it is akin to judaizers and gnostics that were forsaking the blood of Christ.

If replacing the power and authority of the Spirit of God and His name ...

the infallibility of the Word of God and idolatry are no longer core doctrine and as important as His shed blood ...

then you may have a point.

[SDG]

First off. If you have a problem with an Admin decision take it in PM to the Admin and not here.

Second, it was temporarily deleted for review and may be re-opened because some felt this was a personal matter that should be resolved in PM

Third, if you see any name calling or slanderous personal attacks on LS feel free to USE THE POST REPORT TOOL

As you can see...or maybe you can't, we've closed one thread. We've handed out some warnings and infractions. So the complaint that the Admin didn't mind something because they are liberals is unwarranted.

Lastly, the Admin are not on 24/7 to monitor you guys. Nor do the Admin read through the thousands of thousands of posts which is one reason for you people using the Post reporting tool as we have said over and over and over. Short of a thread closure or delete, you will probably not see the infractions or warnings handed out either so please don't assume nothing is done.

There is nothing wrong with addressing what any minister has said or taught including Lee Stoneking, if those teachings are thought to be false.

:happy4th

[Praxeas]

I don't see where teaching a woman should have uncut hair and that God's presence could be manifest in their life is teaching false doctrine or that it is akin to judaizers and gnostics that were forsaking the blood of Christ.
Can you show us where the bible teaches uncut hair manifests the power of God?

It's usually by faith In Christ, but if some are saying it's also by a woman having long uncut hair this is counter to the idea of faith in Christ

[SDG]

Can you show us where the bible teaches uncut hair manifests the power of God?

It's usually by faith In Christ, but if some are saying it's also by a woman having long uncut hair this is counter to the idea of faith in Christ

More core doctrine.

[Ron]

Can you show us where the bible teaches uncut hair manifests the power of God?

It's usually by faith In Christ, but if some are saying it's also by a woman having long uncut hair this is counter to the idea of faith in Christ

Samson's power wasn't in his hair, it was in the anointing of God that manifested itself in his great strength.
Cut the hair & you lose an anointing.

A women's uncut hair is a symbol of her consecration to God & her submission,
the power isn't in the hair.

The power is in the anointing!

[SDG]

Samson's power wasn't in his hair, it was in the anointing of God that manifested itself in his great strength.
Cut the hair & you lose an anointing.

A women's uncut hair is a symbol of her consecration to God & her submission,
the power isn't in the hair.

The power is in the anointing!

For some one is vehemently against magic hair doctrine you do a lot apologizing for it.

[Michael Phelps]

Samson's power wasn't in his hair, it was in the anointing of God that manifested itself in his great strength.
Cut the hair & you lose an anointing.

A women's uncut hair is a symbol of her consecration to God & her submission,
the power isn't in the hair.

The power is in the anointing!

So, are you saying that this principle of Samson's uncut hair still exists today for all believers, Ron?

[Dedicated Mind]

Can you show us where the bible teaches uncut hair manifests the power of God?

It's usually by faith In Christ, but if some are saying it's also by a woman having long uncut hair this is counter to the idea of faith in Christ

it is obvious that a woman with long hair that is also in compliance with the rest of scripture is going to have more of the presence of God than a woman who is not in compliance with scripture. it has to do with obedience and long hair is a requirement for women as short hair is for men. Have you ever seen a long haired man that was annointed?

[tstew]

If replacing the power and authority of the Spirit of God and His name ...

the infallibility of the Word of God and idolatry are no longer core doctrine and as important as His shed blood ...

then you may have a point.

DA I just can't see how you guys can be so scornful at the idea that hair does actually matter when it is clear in the passages that it does have some significance. I think that it just muddies the water when you say that discussing the significance of hair replaces the power and authority of the Spirit of God and His name. I think that that would be akin to someone discussing the significance of tongues since for some reason the Bible makes tongues a significant natural symbol with very clear spiritual implications...and being accused of replacing tongues with those things.

[SDG]

it is obvious that a woman with long hair that is also in compliance with the rest of scripture is going to have more of the presence of God than a woman who is not in compliance with scripture. it has to do with obedience and long hair is a requirement for women as short hair is for men. Have you ever seen a long haired man that was annointed?

Samson.

and other men w/ long beards .. and keepers of the Nazarite vow.

The rest of this post tells me that performance is everything to you ... and leaving no room for unmerited favor ... or grace.

[Praxeas]

Seriously....even if we ALL can agree that women should have uncut hair there is nothing whatsoever about manifesting the Spirit of God by her hair.

There is not a single instance of a woman using her hair for any reason other than to wipe the feet of Jesus..

The bible says call for the elders to pray over you...never call for the woman to lay their hair on you.

Where is that? WHERE? That implies that God has fused supernatural power within their hair....why lay hands on anymore? Just get the ladies long hair. That is scary that we can allow such doctrines and not oppose them. False doctrines breed false doctrines. A Theology not based entirely on the word of God is subject to such extremes and open to many other kinds of false doctrines...We got not the Yahwehists..we got people saying the name of Jesus in greek means a pig and is related to Zeus and that we HAVE to use the hebrew name only. We got people denying Jesus was really our kinsman redeemr (heavenly flesh) and you can't see why it's important to stop these things and nip them at the bud????

1 verse! 1 VERSE! Just ONE verse they have built a doctrine where by some can even be cursed I take it if you don't follow along, whereby a woman has power WITH angels (men don't I guess), their family is protected (if you are a single man you are in deep trouble) and that they can drop their hair from their bun and summon the presence of God! WOW! We've been worshiping and waiting on the Lord when all along all we had to do was have our ladies let their hair down and summon the manifestation of the Spirit!

And all this time oil and laying on hands for healing when all we needed was uncut hair! That does not trouble some of us??? That troubles me tremendously!

The Israelites also stumbled thinking there was some power with in Aarons rod that budded.

[SDG]

Praxeas ... a similar remark holds good of the ephod made by Gideon, and which became an object of idolatrous worship in Israel (Judges 8:27).

[Praxeas]

DA I just can't see how you guys can be so scornful at the idea that hair does actually matter when it is clear in the passages that it does have some significance. I think that it just muddies the water when you say that discussing the significance of hair replaces the power and authority of the Spirit of God and His name. I think that that would be akin to someone discussing the significance of tongues since for some reason the Bible makes tongues a significant natural symbol with very clear spiritual implications...and being accused of replacing tongues with those things.There is not one think in the bible that says the uncut hair of a woman has power IN it..supernatural power and power over angels.

DA is not saying what you just said. There is a specific doctrine, not about women should have long uncut hair, BUT that a womans uncut hair gives her POWER..supernatural power and power OVER angels and gives her and her family special protection...not because of faith in Christ...not because of obedience....but because she did not cut her hair. That is unbiblical

[Praxeas]

Praxeas ... a similar remark holds good of the ephod made by Gideon, and which became an object of idolatrous worship in Israel (Judges 8:27).
Right...

This is not about UPC bashing. I am UPC...I find this doctrine to be dangerous besides unbiblical and so do other UPCers more conservative than I am.

[SDG]

DA is not saying what you just said. There is a specific doctrine, not about women should have long uncut hair, BUT that a womans uncut hair gives her POWER..supernatural power and power OVER angels and gives her and her family special protection...not because of faith in Christ...not because of obedience....but because she did not cut her hair. That is unbiblical

This is what's being said... and apologizing for it using occult writings and testimonials glorifying hair and power w angels.

[tstew]

There is not one think in the bible that says the uncut hair of a woman has power IN it..supernatural power and power over angels.

DA is not saying what you just said. There is a specific doctrine, not about women should have long uncut hair, BUT that a womans uncut hair gives her POWER..supernatural power and power OVER angels and gives her and her family special protection...not because of faith in Christ...not because of obedience....but because she did not cut her hair. That is unbiblical

Prax, I'm just saying that I don't belive anyone is saying that it is an "either or" proposition. There is noone saying that you don't have to have faith in Christ and be obedient to the Word of God...as long as you don't cut your hair. It is not a mutually exclusive deal. Most people that I have heard teach it actually include hair in obedience to God and the Word of God. All I'm saying is that it is not as ridiculous as some would make it sound given that there is a significance specifically spoken of in the Bible. It is certainly something that could use respectful and prayerful consideration.

And I don't see how it could be seen as replacing the power of God...any more than obedience to anything that God laid out in the Old or New Testament would be.

[Praxeas]

it is obvious that a woman with long hair that is also in compliance with the rest of scripture is going to have more of the presence of God than a woman who is not in compliance with scripture.
The problem is they are not saying "women obey the word and you will have the presence of God stronger than ever"...they are saying "your uncut hair gives you POWER. It gives you special protection"...not "prayer"...not "obey your husband"...not "obey your pastor"...not "don't fornicate"...but singularly they are making a doctrine out of HAIR and this one passage to make it mean women with uncut hair have power IN their hair...special supernatural power IN their and the sole reason they have special protections is bound up NOT in prayer or faith or fasting or abstaining from sins of the flesh....but not cutting the hair. That is unbiblical and sets a dangerous precedent

it has to do with obedience and long hair is a requirement for women as short hair is for men. Have you ever seen a long haired man that was annointed?
Have I seen a long hair man anointed? no man has long hair as long as they cut it...what is "anointing"???? being able to preach a great message? that is hardly anointing anymore...it's talent.

Most preachers even not oneness have short hair, so that is just another subjective test..lets talk bible

[Dedicated Mind]

Seriously....even if we ALL can agree that women should have uncut hair there is nothing whatsoever about manifesting the Spirit of God by her hair.

There is not a single instance of a woman using her hair for any reason other than to wipe the feet of Jesus..

The bible says call for the elders to pray over you...never call for the woman to lay their hair on you.

Where is that? WHERE? That implies that God has fused supernatural power within their hair....why lay hands on anymore? Just get the ladies long hair. That is scary that we can allow such doctrines and not oppose them. False doctrines breed false doctrines. A Theology not based entirely on the word of God is subject to such extremes and open to many other kinds of false doctrines...We got not the Yahwehists..we got people saying the name of Jesus in greek means a pig and is related to Zeus and that we HAVE to use the hebrew name only. We got people denying Jesus was really our kinsman redeemr (heavenly flesh) and you can't see why it's important to stop these things and nip them at the bud????

1 verse! 1 VERSE! Just ONE verse they have built a doctrine where by some can even be cursed I take it if you don't follow along, whereby a woman has power WITH angels (men don't I guess), their family is protected (if you are a single man you are in deep trouble) and that they can drop their hair from their bun and summon the presence of God! WOW! We've been worshiping and waiting on the Lord when all along all we had to do was have our ladies let their hair down and summon the manifestation of the Spirit!

And all this time oil and laying on hands for healing when all we needed was uncut hair! That does not trouble some of us??? That troubles me tremendously!

The Israelites also stumbled thinking there was some power with in Aarons rod that budded.

uncut hair has no power in itself but obedience and submission to the word of God as a whole is where the power comes from. Take Saul for an example, when he disobeyed God the spirit of God departed. long hair is an obedience requirement for the power of God in women's lives.

[tstew]

The problem is they are not saying "women obey the word and you will have the presence of God stronger than ever"...they are saying "your uncut hair gives you POWER. It gives you special protection"...not "prayer"...not "obey your husband"...not "obey your pastor"...not "don't fornicate"...but singularly they are making a doctrine out of HAIR and this one passage to make it mean women with uncut hair have power IN their hair...special supernatural power IN their and the sole reason they have special protections is bound up NOT in prayer or faith or fasting or abstaining from sins of the flesh....but not cutting the hair. That is unbiblical and sets a dangerous precedent


Have I seen a long hair man anointed? no man has long hair as long as they cut it...what is "anointing"???? being able to preach a great message? that is hardly anointing anymore...it's talent.

Most preachers even not oneness have short hair, so that is just another subjective test..lets talk bible

Prax...if you have heard anyone say those things or even intimate those things, then we are talking about two different things. I would love to hear who said or wrote those things. I personally have never heard it taught as "either obey all the rest of the Bible or don't cut your hair".

[Praxeas]

Prax, I'm just saying that I don't belive anyone is saying that it is an "either or" proposition. There is noone saying that you don't have to have faith in Christ and be obedient to the Word of God...as long as you don't cut your hair. It is not a mutually exclusive deal. Most people that I have heard teach it actually include hair in obedience to God and the Word of God. All I'm saying is that it is not as ridiculous as some would make it sound given that there is a significance specifically spoken of in the Bible. It is certainly something that could use respectful and prayerful consideration.

And I don't see how it could be seen as replacing the power of God...any more than obedience to anything that God laid out in the Old or New Testament would be.
you need to really study and listen to what they are saying. They are specifically wrapping up having power with angels, special protections etc etc to having uncut hair..they say that. They are saying THAT. They are saying "if you do not cut your hair you have power with the angels"...where does the bible say that?

They are promoting laying hair on someone for healing...where does the bible say that? Where is hair ever used like that?

they are not simply saying anymore "you need to have long hair" they are not saying "if you are disobedient you will lose protection" they are saying

"your uncut hair gives you protection and power with angels"
See? Not "your obedience ladies gives you power with angels and protection" which the bible never makes a claim specifically for women anyways about protection from angels..

They are making a specific doctrine out of having uncut hair and what God promises to do as a result...infuse power into the hair

[Ron]

For some one is vehemently against magic hair doctrine you do a lot apologizing for it.

Coming from one who believes Heaven will be overflowing with believers of all stripes, I am not surprised that you don't believe in uncut hair.

[Praxeas]

Prax...if you have heard anyone say those things or even intimate those things, then we are talking about two different things. I would love to hear who said or wrote those things. I personally have never heard it taught as "either obey all the rest of the Bible or don't cut your hair".
We are talking two different things. I have to run now, but we've been doing this for years. I heard LS with my own ears two years ago relate a story of a lady using her hair by laying it on a sick person and praying over them for healing...why? Because they are being taught there is supernatural power infused into their hair.

maybe some of the others can provide more quotes

[Ron]

Prax, I'm just saying that I don't belive anyone is saying that it is an "either or" proposition. There is noone saying that you don't have to have faith in Christ and be obedient to the Word of God...as long as you don't cut your hair. It is not a mutually exclusive deal. Most people that I have heard teach it actually include hair in obedience to God and the Word of God. All I'm saying is that it is not as ridiculous as some would make it sound given that there is a significance specifically spoken of in the Bible. It is certainly something that could use respectful and prayerful consideration.

And I don't see how it could be seen as replacing the power of God...any more than obedience to anything that God laid out in the Old or New Testament would be.

Bro, this ain't going to go any where.
I see what you saying but I do understand that scripture that says hearing they won't hear, seeing they won't see.

Lost cause really.

[Praxeas]

uncut hair has no power in itself but obedience and submission to the word of God as a whole is where the power comes from.
the power comes from the Spirit and I agree uncut hair has no power in itself...there is no power IN uncut hair for a lady...none.

She has a symbol of authority on her head because she came after the man.

It does not say power with angels as some have said

[tstew]

The problem is they are not saying "women obey the word and you will have the presence of God stronger than ever"...they are saying "your uncut hair gives you POWER. It gives you special protection"...not "prayer"...not "obey your husband"...not "obey your pastor"...not "don't fornicate"...but singularly they are making a doctrine out of HAIR and this one passage to make it mean women with uncut hair have power IN their hair...special supernatural power IN their and the sole reason they have special protections is bound up NOT in prayer or faith or fasting or abstaining from sins of the flesh....but not cutting the hair. That is unbiblical and sets a dangerous precedent


Have I seen a long hair man anointed? no man has long hair as long as they cut it...what is "anointing"???? being able to preach a great message? that is hardly anointing anymore...it's talent.

Most preachers even not oneness have short hair, so that is just another subjective test..lets talk bible

I did not watch the Stoneking video, but if he said "don't pray, obey your pastor or pastor, and by all means feel free to fornicate...as long as you don't cut your hair"...let me stand shoulder to shoulder with you all and call that heretical. I just feel like most of this is hyperbole and over-sensation.

[Praxeas]

Bro, this ain't going to go any where.
I see what you saying but I do understand that scripture that says hearing they won't hear, seeing they won't see.

Lost cause really.
you know that is very insulting. I am UPC. I am not lost nor am I blind. I go by the word and i am simply pointing out there is no verse that supports there being power with angels due to uncut hair., If you want to have a civil discussion over that and look at the scriptures lets do it. Maybe it's you that can't hear or see? This is not about whether or not a woman's hair should be uncut. This is about the teaching she gets special protections and powers in her hair and power over angels

[tstew]

Bro, this ain't going to go any where.
I see what you saying but I do understand that scripture that says hearing they won't hear, seeing they won't see.

Lost cause really.

Bro, I'm not necessarilly saying that we will all walk away agreeing, but I just think that hyperbole and over sensation do not help. There is plenty of room here for sincere Biblical discussion since this is clearly a Biblical matter. It is not just something that someone pulled out of thin air. I just have never heard it taught anywhere near how it is being characterized here.

[Praxeas]

I did not watch the Stoneking video, but if he said "don't pray, obey your pastor or pastor, and by all means feel free to fornicate...as long as you don't cut your hair"...let me stand shoulder to shoulder with you all and call that heretical. I just feel like most of this is hyperbole and over-sensation.
you are missing the point. I did not say he said not to pray.

The point is they are saying IF you have UNCUT hair you get this special power with angels....ok, focus on that...

If you do not cut your hair you will have power, special power..power with angels...special protections..you can even lay your hair on someone and they can be healed....

Ok...normally we tell people that is all by faith....we say "obey the word"....what they are saying is specifically "ladies, you are special...because God has chosen you to have power with angels because of your uncut hair"

They even go so far as to quote witches on the power of uncut hair....not because it is obedience, but because it is uncut

[Michael Phelps]

you know that is very insulting. I am UPC. I am not lost nor am I blind. I go by the word and i am simply pointing out there is no verse that supports there being power with angels due to uncut hair., If you want to have a civil discussion over that and look at the scriptures lets do it. Maybe it's you that can't hear or see? This is not about whether or not a woman's hair should be uncut. This is about the teaching she gets special protections and powers in her hair and power over angels

"Bro, this ain't going to go any where.
I see what you saying but I do understand that scripture that says hearing they won't hear, seeing they won't see.

Lost cause really."

Just showing the stalemate...........

[tstew]

you know that is very insulting. I am UPC. I am not lost nor am I blind. I go by the word and i am simply pointing out there is no verse that supports there being power with angels due to uncut hair., If you want to have a civil discussion over that and look at the scriptures lets do it. Maybe it's you that can't hear or see? This is not about whether or not a woman's hair should be uncut. This is about the teaching she gets special protections and powers in her hair and power over angels

Prax, I think that we have had enough conversations to develop mutual respect (I'll dig out some posts where you said so if you deny it :)) I do think that there is a lot of room here for respectful discussion. I just didn't agree with the over-simplified way I was hearing the hair discussion approached. We certainly can't take any Scripture out of context and build something around it that isn't there...but at the same time we can't gloss over it and act like it doesn't exist or isn't significant enough in the grand scheme. I do appreciate the convo and hope noone leaves insulted or offended.

[Praxeas]

"Bro, this ain't going to go any where.
I see what you saying but I do understand that scripture that says hearing they won't hear, seeing they won't see.

Lost cause really."

Just showing the stalemate...........
I didn't say one bad thing about anyone here. I did not call LS any names. This just reminds of me Jekyll..no substance just insults

[Sister Alvear]

I want to be very careful what I say for some fear to tread when angels would not walk...however we are all just vessels for a power much greater than us.
LS has been a great blessing to many but so have many others. Many people that write on the forum are great blessings to people...look at MOW and his trips to China, Sherri and Eddy and their works in Africa and the Philippines...Keith and Jeanie and their blessings to India...Brother Light that writes on this forum has been a tremendous blessing to us in Brazil...Brother Epley stands as an Icon in the conservative world of Pentecost.

There are others...do we all see alike? No... We have hero’s in every camp...Sister Freeman and all she has done...People like the Wiggins (aimer´s) in Spain. Brother Conroy in Germany and the Stewart´s that have been in Africa…Look at Sandra…and her work…look at the Munsey´s (my friends)…
What a fruit salad we all make! Yet we have a common bond and that is taking Jesus to the world.
Sorting us all out is up to the Lord…I refuse to have any evil thoughts about anyone.

[Michael Phelps]

Prax, I think that we have had enough conversations to develop mutual respect (I'll dig out some posts where you said so if you deny it :)) I do think that there is a lot of room here for respectful discussion. I just didn't agree with the over-simplified way I was hearing the hair discussion approached. We certainly can't take any Scripture out of context and build something around it that isn't there...but at the same time we can't gloss over it and act like it doesn't exist or isn't significant enough in the grand scheme. I do appreciate the convo and hope noone leaves insulted or offended.

I, for one, have always appreciated your spirit, Tstew. It's a pleasure to dialogue with you..........

[SDG]

I did not watch the Stoneking video, but if he said "don't pray, obey your pastor or pastor, and by all means feel free to fornicate...as long as you don't cut your hair"...let me stand shoulder to shoulder with you all and call that heretical. I just feel like most of this is hyperbole and over-sensation.

To be fair I think it behooves you to watch it ...

[tstew]

you are missing the point. I did not say he said not to pray.

The point is they are saying IF you have UNCUT hair you get this special power with angels....ok, focus on that...

If you do not cut your hair you will have power, special power..power with angels...special protections..you can even lay your hair on someone and they can be healed....

Ok...normally we tell people that is all by faith....we say "obey the word"....what they are saying is specifically "ladies, you are special...because God has chosen you to have power with angels because of your uncut hair"

They even go so far as to quote witches on the power of uncut hair....not because it is obedience, but because it is uncut


Prax, I'm just saying that it is not mutually exclusive. You can obey more than one command at a time without detracting from another. It is very possible for me to obey Acts and be saved and annointed, and still be obeying what I read in other passages of Scripture without it detracting from my faith and obedience.

[Sister Alvear]

I want to be very careful what I say for some fear to tread when angels would not walk...however we are all just vessels for a power much greater than us.
LS has been a great blessing to many but so have many others. Many people that write on the forum are great blessings to people...look at MOW and his trips to China, Sherri and Eddy and their works in Africa and the Philippines...Keith and Jeanie and their blessings to India...Brother Light that writes on this forum has been a tremendous blessing to us in Brazil...Brother Epley stands as an Icon in the conservative world of Pentecost.

There are others...do we all see alike? No... We have hero’s in every camp...Sister Freeman and all she has done...People like the Wiggins (aimer´s) in Spain. Brother Conroy in Germany and the Stewart´s that have been in Africa…Look at Sandra…and her work…look at the Munsey´s (my friends)…
What a fruit salad we all make! Yet we have a common bond and that is taking Jesus to the world.
Sorting us all out is up to the Lord…I refuse to have any evil thoughts about anyone.

[Sister Alvear]

We can believe something without being offensive...

[Praxeas]

Prax, I think that we have had enough conversations to develop mutual respect (I'll dig out some posts where you said so if you deny it :)) I do think that there is a lot of room here for respectful discussion. I just didn't agree with the over-simplified way I was hearing the hair discussion approached. We certainly can't take any Scripture out of context and build something around it that isn't there...but at the same time we can't gloss over it and act like it doesn't exist or isn't significant enough in the grand scheme. I do appreciate the convo and hope noone leaves insulted or offended.
Nobody is glossing over this one verse. I never did. But some have misquoted this verse to read "she has power with angels" and it does not say that.

The verse is not about her having special powers

It's about what is the purpose of the hair...it is a covering and a sign...why? Because man was made first then woman

1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to have his head covered, because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
1Co 11:8 For the man is not of the woman, but the woman of the man.
1Co 11:9 Nor was the man created for the woman, but the woman for the man.
1Co 11:10 For this reason the woman ought to have authority on her head because of the angels.

notice how it says "for this reason"? there is a reason she is supposed to have this long hair...read what comes before it to find otu

[tstew]

I, for one, have always appreciated your spirit, Tstew. It's a pleasure to dialogue with you..........

Thank you sir. I do enjoy the dialogue here with you and others. I just like to try to be balanced and over-simplifying and over-hyping do not lend to balanced discussions.

[tstew]

I want to be very careful what I say for some fear to tread when angels would not walk...however we are all just vessels for a power much greater than us.
LS has been a great blessing to many but so have many others. Many people that write on the forum are great blessings to people...look at MOW and his trips to China, Sherri and Eddy and their works in Africa and the Philippines...Keith and Jeanie and their blessings to India...Brother Light that writes on this forum has been a tremendous blessing to us in Brazil...Brother Epley stands as an Icon in the conservative world of Pentecost.

There are others...do we all see alike? No... We have hero’s in every camp...Sister Freeman and all she has done...People like the Wiggins (aimer´s) in Spain. Brother Conroy in Germany and the Stewart´s that have been in Africa…Look at Sandra…and her work…look at the Munsey´s (my friends)…
What a fruit salad we all make! Yet we have a common bond and that is taking Jesus to the world.
Sorting us all out is up to the Lord…I refuse to have any evil thoughts about anyone.

Once again words of wisdom. I think we all need a pocket-sized Sister Alvear to keep us all right all day :)

[SDG]

In the last 40 minutes his preaching which he taught about his "glorious revelation" concerning uncut hair ...

His outline looks something like this:

1. Introduction:

His understanding of the prooftext 1 Corinthians 1:10 is offered

a. He proclaims this is a "glorious revelation" that he believes the Church needs to grab a hold of ...

b. a woman's compliance to the uncut hair doctrine give her power with and power because of angels allowing her to walk in a unique spiritual realm, not available to men, that gives her power and authority even to give a word of knowledge to her husband.

2. The Historical Significance of Hair ... he gives "facts" about the cutting hair is a new phenomena in human history ...

Even strongly implicated that this rebellion of the 1920's caused The Great Depression

3. The Spiritual Significance of Hair .... a phrase he uses in the sermon to segway. He proceeds to not quote any scripture but rather give occult subtantiation that uncut hair gives power with the angels ...

then remarks "What would happen if our women took off their pins and shook the hair in the wind" like witches WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THE CHURCH ...

He also tells the host pastor that if brother Black did not preach anything else (this revelation)... WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THE CHURCH.

4. Testimonies of Giving Glory to God and uncut hair - Miracles, God's favor and angelic protection are linked to woman complying to the uncut hair doctrine.

[Praxeas]

Prax, I'm just saying that it is not mutually exclusive. You can obey more than one command at a time without detracting from another. It is very possible for me to obey Acts and be saved and annointed, and still be obeying what I read in other passages of Scripture without it detracting from my faith and obedience.
I am saying all this from the perspective that we all agree women should have uncut hair. That is not the issue. Obedience is not the issue. The issue is a specific doctrine of a woman having special powers being made and circulated..and they even quote occult sources saying witches know about this thing and that is why they have uncut hair. The issue is not about obeying the word. It is a specific doctrine that says specifically there is power in uncut hair, even witches recognize this and they have power too, but from a different source...that is not about obedience. That is about something inate in the hair itself

[Sister Alvear]

because of the angels I have heard explained lots of ways...some say good angels others say bad angels...however the reading says Because of the angels.

[tstew]

Nobody is glossing over this one verse. I never did. But some have misquoted this verse to read "she has power with angels" and it does not say that.

The verse is not about her having special powers

It's about what is the purpose of the hair...it is a covering and a sign...why? Because man was made first then woman

1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to have his head covered, because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
1Co 11:8 For the man is not of the woman, but the woman of the man.
1Co 11:9 Nor was the man created for the woman, but the woman for the man.
1Co 11:10 For this reason the woman ought to have authority on her head because of the angels.

notice how it says "for this reason"? there is a reason she is supposed to have this long hair...read what comes before it to find otu


But Prax, I have heard people act like teaching about women and hair is the biggest joke since......(insert big joke here). And I also was a bit concerned about the characterization that uncut hair was being taught as a substitute for prayer, respect for pastor, obedience to the other thousands of Scriptures, and as the only thing that mattered.
I just don't find that to be true.

[Praxeas]

Ok, well Ron left...without an apology.

[Praxeas]

But Prax, I have heard people act like teaching about women and hair is the biggest joke since......(insert big joke here). And I also was a bit concerned about the characterization that uncut hair was being taught as a substitute for prayer, respect for pastor, obedience to the other thousands of Scriptures, and as the only thing that mattered.
I just don't find that to be true.
WE are not talking about that.This is not about that. We are not talking about that. We are talking about a new specific doctrine made popular by RR and now by LS where by some ladies have taken it upon themselves to even lay their hair on folks for healing because they have special powers...we really need to stick to the topic. It's not about what you just posted. Listen to what LS says

[tstew]

I am saying all this from the perspective that we all agree women should have uncut hair. That is not the issue. Obedience is not the issue. The issue is a specific doctrine of a woman having special powers being made and circulated..and they even quote occult sources saying witches know about this thing and that is why they have uncut hair. The issue is not about obeying the word. It is a specific doctrine that says specifically there is power in uncut hair, even witches recognize this and they have power too, but from a different source...that is not about obedience. That is about something inate in the hair itself

(Slamming on the brakes) Prax, honestly this was not the impression I was getting. If that is the case I humbly submit my apology and ask for the last hour of my life back.

[Praxeas]

because of the angels I have heard explained lots of ways...some say good angels others say bad angels...however the reading says Because of the angels.
it does not really matter though.

it does not say 'power with angels'...

1Co 11:7 For a man indeed ought not to have his head covered, because he is the image and glory of God. But the woman is the glory of the man.
1Co 11:8 For the man is not of the woman, but the woman of the man.
1Co 11:9 Nor was the man created for the woman, but the woman for the man.
1Co 11:10 For this reason the woman ought to have authority on her head because of the angels.

[Sister Alvear]

I personally cannot see it meaning power in the hair...my hair has never healed anyone BUT faith in His Name and His power has healed thousands...
I am not smart enough to go into some deep study however I cannot see a witch and a christian lady claiming power for the same reason...

[Praxeas]

(Slamming on the brakes) Prax, honestly this was not the impression I was getting. If that is the case I humbly submit my apology and ask for the last hour of my life back.
I said it a number of times. The issue is not whether a woman should have uncut hair. The issue is a new doctrine whereby women are told they have special powers in their uncut hair.

[SDG]

I personally cannot see it meaning power in the hair...my hair has never healed anyone BUT faith in His Name and His power has healed thousands...
I am not smart enough to go into some deep study however I cannot see a witch and a christian lady claiming power for the same reason...

Yet in it 's presentation this is the assertion most walk away with ...

If this is not what is meant ... then LS should make clarfication ...

Yet I believe this is offered up for "effect"

[tstew]

I said it a number of times. The issue is not whether a woman should have uncut hair. The issue is a new doctrine whereby women are told they have special powers in their uncut hair.

I wasn't necessarilly referring to your posts. I just got the impression from some people on a few different threads that they thought the entire stance on hair was ridiculous. I will retreat to my corner now. :)

[Sherri]

I personally cannot see it meaning power in the hair...my hair has never healed anyone BUT faith in His Name and His power has healed thousands...
I am not smart enough to go into some deep study however I cannot see a witch and a christian lady claiming power for the same reason...And that is exactly why I called this doctrine SCARY.

[Praxeas]

this is why what Ron said is really insulting. I can discuss the long hair stuff. I can take both sides...that is not what this is about.

Listen to what LS preached about the hair.

[Praxeas]

I gotta run now. God bless

[Cindy]

In the last 40 minutes his preaching which he taught about his "glorious revelation" concerning uncut hair ...

His outline looks something like this:

1. Introduction:

His understanding of the prooftext 1 Corinthians 1:10 is offered

a. He proclaims this is a "glorious revelation" that he believes the Church needs to grab a hold of ...

b. a woman's compliance to the uncut hair doctrine give her power with and power because of angels allowing her to walk in a unique spiritual realm, not available to men, that gives her power and authority even to give a word of knowledge to her husband.

2. The Historical Significance of Hair ... he gives "facts" about the cutting hair is a new phenomena in human history ...

Even strongly implicated that this rebellion of the 1920's caused The Great Depression

3. The Spiritual Significance of Hair .... a phrase he uses in the sermon to segway. He proceeds to not quote any scripture but rather give occult subtantiation that uncut hair gives power with the angels ...

then remarks "What would happen if our women took off their pins and shook the hair in the wind" like witches WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THE CHURCH ...

He also tells the host pastor that if brother Black did not preach anything else (this revelation)... WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IN THE CHURCH.

4. Testimonies of Giving Glory to God and uncut hair - Miracles, God's favor and angelic protection are linked to woman complying to the uncut hair doctrine.

Daniel I have a question. Is this exactly what he said word for word? If not please don't just quote snippets or things you want to point out. The reason I am asking is because my sound is not working well, so I cannot just take your word for it.

[Kay B]

I did not watch the Stoneking video, but if he said "don't pray, obey your pastor or pastor, and by all means feel free to fornicate...as long as you don't cut your hair"...let me stand shoulder to shoulder with you all and call that heretical. I just feel like most of this is hyperbole and over-sensation.

I finally did watch the video this am. Used all of our bandwidth. I did not hear anything like this in Bro Stonekings message.
I wonder how many actually have watched the video or are just accepting what has been posted. It was worth it to me to watch it in full to know exactly what was being preached/taught.I reccomend all to watch for themselves.
God Bless

[tstew]

I gotta run now. God bless

Take care bro. When you return can you tell me how I can get my name on your Crybaby trophy?

[Cindy]

I finally did watch the video this am. Used all of our bandwidth. I did not hear anything like this in Bro Stonekings message.
I wonder how many actually have watched the video or are just accepting what has been posted. It was worth it to me to watch it in full to know exactly what was being preached/taught.I reccomend all to watch for themselves.
God Bless

Maybe that is why I am having so much trouble. Thanks sis.

[SDG]

All of us agree no matter where we stand on cut hair that ... 1 Corinthians 11 is also about God's order of things and authority ...

Yet by spiritualizing hair and stating woman have power w/ angels ...

I believe his claiming in this sermon that a woman's compliance to the uncut hair doctrine gives her ... power with and power because ... of angels ...

allowing her to walk in a unique spiritual realm, not available to men, that gives her said unique power and authority ..

so much so that her compliance and uncut hair can even allow to give a word of knowledge to her husband in how to handle problems ... as given by the anecdote he shares to support his teaching in this sermon.

[SDG]

Coming from one who believes Heaven will be overflowing with believers of all stripes, I am not surprised that you don't believe in uncut hair.

1. Who says I don't believe someone can believe this and not got to heaven?

2. Not surprised I don't believe in uncut hair ?????... this is not about cut or uncut.

[Ron]

1. Who says I don't believe someone can believe this and not got to heaven?

2. Not surprised I don't believe in uncut hair ?????... this is not about cut or uncut.

Then what has got you so in a snippet??

We all said that we do not agree with Magic Hair!!!!

What is it you want Daniel??

That is the crux of all of these threads.

I bet you won't answer it.

[SDG]

Then what has got you so in a snippet??

We all said that we do not agree with Magic Hair!!!!

What is it you want Daniel??

That is the crux of all of these threads.

I bet you won't answer it.

I want many things, Ronald....

Personally, I'd like to stop playing "GOTCHA" w/ you.

For starters ... I want to see the Church focus on Jesus Christ and what He's done and can do in our lives in their preaching and teaching ....

I don't want error to be taught that frustrate and confuse the lives and walks of Spirit-filled believers like I believe this teaching does ...

Not everything is heaven or hell ... but how we can live victorious and more satisfying lives when we live by biblical principles ....

yet those on your side of the fence can't see that w/ your rose color glasses on.

I have never been quiet about my wanting to see the movement I grew up in progress and make reform .. (I know that's viewed as a dirty word).
and yearn to see a return what in the words of TF Tenney We must make the main thing ... the main thing ....

Does it have to look the way I want it to look ??? No, of course not, but what could be wrong w/ organic growth and teaching bible based principles rather than man-made traditions and philosophies?

I would like to see that organization I grew up in and my family gave their life to not get further entrenched in legalism and fall prey to the vocal minority that tried to hijack it for almost 3 decades ....

In doing so and rejecting this doctrine they gain credibility and make baby steps to being transparent and accountable to their mission: The Whole Gospel to the Whole World.

They do so by not profiting or sanctioning through apathy .... clear-cut heresy like this one ....

Furthermore, I believe the organization is profiting from the sale of these teachings through book, CD, and DVD sales although not officially endorsing it.

JJ's .... My Hair, My Glory is a top seller.

District funds are used to pay honorariums to speakers who have made it their ministry to speak about this topic from the point of view of "experts".

The org can sell whatever merchandise they choose but to say that this is not at least being tacitly promoted by those who influence the direction of the organization is not accurate.

Lastly, it affects the entire Body as a whole when core doctrines as the sovereignty, power and authority of the Holy Spirit and the Name of Jesus are replaced. Other core doctrines in question are the infallibility of the Word of God (as opposed to occult writings) and idolatry.

Nor can the effect of teaching performance over genuine obedience has in the heart of the believer and their walk in Christ .. be ignored.

Or what it does to members, pastors, and churches who do not want to be linked to what most see as a cultish teaching .... thus affecting their identities, credibility and potential to make an impact in their local communities.

You can dissect and find fault in all or parts w/ what I said ... even question my focus and delivery ... but I've answered the question you thought I would ignore or be scared to answer.

I seek not your approval but would appreciate the courtesy which gives me the benefit of the doubt by not putting words or intents in my mouth or peeking into my heart.

You don't even have to believe a word. But it is what it is ..... a bet you've lost.

[Darcie]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but (M)woman for the man's sake.

10Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.



Where does the bible say that angels have power?

How can a woman's hair give her power with the angels if the angels don't have power?

When the bible says because of the angels it is reference to authority. God, man, woman, angels.

I don't need power with the angels, I have the power of the Holy Spirit, thats enough for me.

[Cindy]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but (M)woman for the man's sake.

10Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.



Where does the bible say that angels have power?

How can a woman's hair give her power with the angels if the angels don't have power?

When the bible says because of the angels it is reference to authority. God, man, woman, angels.

I don't need power with the angels, I have the power of the Holy Spirit, thats enough for me.

I agree. It is very plain and simple to me.

[Pressing-On]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

for indeed man was not created for the woman's sake, but (M)woman for the man's sake.

10Therefore the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels.



Where does the bible say that angels have power?

How can a woman's hair give her power with the angels if the angels don't have power?

When the bible says because of the angels it is reference to authority. God, man, woman, angels.

I don't need power with the angels, I have the power of the Holy Spirit, thats enough for me.

I agree that we have power because of the Holy Ghost.

I'm wondering if the reference to "angels" has to do with I Peter 1:12 "Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into."

Could it be saying that they see God has given man His Spirit here on Earth and has given us authority? Just a thought.

[ManOfWord]

Truth doesn't matter, MOW........say what you need to to prove your point. Make up statistics, misquote other's posts, do what you need to to protect your hero. You should know that's how it works!:bliss

Some, apparently have that procedure down to a science. :D

Samson's power wasn't in his hair, it was in the anointing of God that manifested itself in his great strength.
Cut the hair & you lose an anointing.

A women's uncut hair is a symbol of her consecration to God & her submission,
the power isn't in the hair.

The power is in the anointing!

But one cannot state across the board that if a women cuts her hair she loses her anointing. That is just not a biblical doctrine. :D

uncut hair has no power in itself but obedience and submission to the word of God as a whole is where the power comes from. Take Saul for an example, when he disobeyed God the spirit of God departed. long hair is an obedience requirement for the power of God in women's lives.


Long hair is an obedience requirement for the power of God in women's lives? The scripture doesn't say that. You may believe that but the scripture No Where states that!!!

[Darcie]

I agree that we have power because of the Holy Ghost.

I'm wondering if the reference to "angels" has to do with I Peter 1:12 "Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into."

Could it be saying that they see God has given man His Spirit here on Earth and has given us authority? Just a thought.

Personally I feel we have power over the angels; Heavenly and demonic.

[SDG]

Personally I feel we have power over the angels; Heavenly and demonic.

My sister has power ... the power of God ....even when she chopped off her beautiful hair ....

:tissue

[Ron]

Some, apparently have that procedure down to a science. :D



But one cannot state across the board that if a women cuts her hair she loses her anointing. That is just not a biblical doctrine. :D




Long hair is an obedience requirement for the power of God in women's lives? The scripture doesn't say that. You may believe that but the scripture No Where states that!!!

That is true MOW, but neither do we lose our annointing when one sins either-at least not right away.:happydance

[Ron]

My sister has power ... the power of God ....even when she chopped off her beautiful hair ....

:tissue

Right, and I still could pray for people & God would touch them with my anointing
when I was in a backslidden state.:bliss

[Darcie]

My sister has power ... the power of God ....even when she chopped off her beautiful hair ....

:tissue

Can you believe it?!?!?! Even with my hair chopped off, God still uses me and has annointed me!?!?!?!?!

[SDG]

Can you believe it?!?!?! Even with my hair chopped off, God still uses me and has annointed me!?!?!?!?!

But of course, you're backslidden.

[Ron]

Can you believe it?!?!?! Even with my hair chopped off, God still uses me and has annointed me!?!?!?!?!

The Gifts and callings of God are without repentance.

Lucifer still has his annointing.

[Pressing-On]

Personally I feel we have power over the angels; Heavenly and demonic.
Demonic, I agree, but I have to consider this passage in Peter.

II Peter 2:11 "Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord."

So, having power over angels, I don't know.

[Ron]

But of course, you're backslidden.


Is she? Dan, that is a pretty hard accusation to make.

[Pressing-On]

But of course, you're backslidden.

Daniel,
This isn't even what we are reaching for! At least I don't think we are.

We are just trying to understand this passage. It does speak of authority, headship and submission, but it also talks about hair. It's not easy to cast that aside. I'm not willing to do it. All of it is involved.

[Ron]

Daniel,
This isn't even what we are reaching for! At least I don't think we are.

We are just trying to understand this passage. It does speak of authority, headship and submission, but it also talks about hair. It's not easy to cast that aside. I'm not willing to do it. All of it is involved.

I think also he is saying because someone feels an anointing everything is okay!
That isn't always the case.

[Pressing-On]

I think also he is saying because someone feels an anointing everything is okay!
That isn't always the case.

Well, Ron, I just want to focus on the passage itself and nothing else, but I do see what you are saying. It is not always the case. We could use Saul prophesying as an example.

Gotta run!

[SDG]

Is she? Dan, that is a pretty hard accusation to make.

In many circles she is ...

I for one thinks she was backslidden since birth .... she's always been behind me.:gaga

[Ron]

Well, Ron, I just want to focus on the passage itself and nothing else.

Gotta run!

Have a good night PO!
I gotta go too.

My wife is tired and I am cooking dinner-Macaroni & Cheese & Hot Dogs!

Woo Hoo!

[Pressing-On]

Have a good night PO!
I gotta go too.

My wife is tired and I am cooking dinner-Macaroni & Cheese & Hot Dogs!

Woo Hoo!
Later!

[Ron]

In many circles she is ...

I for one thinks she was backslidden since birth .... she's always been behind me.:gaga

Are you the oldest?

[SDG]

Are you the oldest?

No ... Dino is ... he's past the big 4-oh.

Then myself ... then Darcie.

Darrien is the youngest.

I'm ... Definitely the smartest and best looking.

:gaga

[Ron]

No ... Dino is ... he's past the big 4-oh.

Then myself ... then Darcie.

Darrien is the youngest.

I'm ... Definitely the smartest and best looking.

:gaga


And most humble!:toofunny

[SDG]

And most humble!:toofunny

Most stubborn too.

Now go and eat ... I'll man the fort.

[Darcie]

The Gifts and callings of God are without repentance.

Lucifer still has his annointing.

I'm not sure how to take this :noidea

[Cindy]

Can you believe it?!?!?! Even with my hair chopped off, God still uses me and has annointed me!?!?!?!?!

Chopped off? Did you get a bad hair cut?

:reaction

[Darcie]

Chopped off? Did you get a bad hair cut?

:reaction

Nah! Just being over dramatic. That's me th drama queen :queen

[Cindy]

Some, apparently have that procedure down to a science. :D



But one cannot state across the board that if a women cuts her hair she loses her anointing. That is just not a biblical doctrine. :D




Long hair is an obedience requirement for the power of God in women's lives? The scripture doesn't say that. You may believe that but the scripture No Where states that!!!

MOW can you please tell Michael Phelps to hush until he gets right? He lives in a boxed in neighborhood, the boy needs help I tell ya.:D

[Ron]

Most stubborn too.

Now go and eat ... I'll man the fort.

Thanks.

[Ron]

I'm not sure how to take this :noidea

Was I comparing you to Lucifer? Heavens no!!

Just the fact that we have annointing doesn't mean we are where we need to be in God, that is all.

That applies to me too.

Sorry if you took it otherwise.

[Darcie]

Was I comparing you to Lucifer? Heavens no!!

Just the fact that we have annointing doesn't mean we are where we need to be in God, that is all.

That applies to me too.

Sorry if you took it otherwise.

I didn't think you meant it that way, really. And if anyone does, it doesn't faze me at all. I KNOW where I stand with God.

[Ron]

I didn't think you meant it that way, really. And if anyone does, it doesn't faze me at all. I KNOW where I stand with God.

That is what counts.

Somewhere, someone, probably thinks I am backslidden!:toofunny

And some days, they may be right!:tissue

[Bro-Larry]

Praxeas ... a similar remark holds good of the ephod made by Gideon, and which became an object of idolatrous worship in Israel (Judges 8:27).

...and you can add that brass snake (nehustin) that Moses lifted up on a pole.