Is "One-Step" Closer To Hell?

[1Corinth2v4]

I believe in the divine three-step mandate of repentance, water baptism, and Holy Ghost infilling to enter heaven. Also, I become weary hearing and reading one-stepper illustrations of the "what if theory." Here's a question for you one-steppers.

There's an atheist, the son of a Pentecostal preacher traveling via airplane and finally accepts the message of Jesus Christ. The atheist states he'll repent of his sins after landing, while in the presence of his father, and the airplane then explodes in mid-air.

Would God send a Pentecostal's preacher boy to hell after his determination was to repent in the presence of his physical father, that his physical father might rejoice with him, in the presence of a mighty merciful God?

I mean, surely, the same merciful God that saves a person after their determination to get baptized, and yet dies in a plane crash before being baptized, this very same merciful God will save a sinner whose determination was to repent, but dies in a plane crash, correct?

This is the same logic you one-steppers utilize, so your answer should be undoubtedly swift.

[deltaguitar]

I prefer to take one from the three-steppers. "We just do what the bible says, and if it says it I am gonna do it".

[RandyWayne]

It is not the same logic.

Saying you'll repent "after" something is not repenting at all. Had he repented while in the plane only to have to explode seconds or minutes later, I think he would be in pretty good hands.

It's a pretty weak "rebuttal".

[1Corinth2v4]

It is not the same logic.

Saying you'll repent "after" something is not repenting at all. Had he repented while in the plane only to have to explode seconds or minutes later.

The atheist had determined to repent, without any doubt when in the presence of his father. The atheist was sincere in his actions.
I think he would be in pretty good hands.


Likewise, if the repented person had been baptized when he/she repented, they might of been well off too before dying in a plane-crash.


All the same logic.

[Cindy]

He was not saved.

[1Corinth2v4]

He was not saved.

We are in agreement.

Just as an individual who has repented and yet failed to get baptized before death, they're both destined to hell and the lake of fire.

[StillStanding]

Repentance is a frame of mind. If he planned to repent in front of his earthly father, he has repented to God.

[SDG]

More screwy logic ... from the 3 step crowd.

1. Repentance is a result of a heart that has genuinely placed their faith in the salvation provided by Jesus Christ from death and our sins. Does it need

to be articulated in front of someone? No. Can their be tears and snot and not be genuine? Yes.

Hence, making the determination to repent after ... may not believing on Jesus Christ ... a believer would repent ... it's procrastination, my good friend

.... to shut up Dad ... or uncertainty in the message ... both are UNBELIEF ... and for this one is condemned.

Or maybe he did repent in his heart ... but understood that their would be a lifestyle change that would occur after stepping off that plane.

Repentance is not a one-stop shop at the altar... it is a heart that relies, surrenders, trusts, clings to Jesus Christ ... in faith and turns to Him in

action and deed.

Once again, another clear-cut example that my 3 step brethren don't know what faith means ... to them it's just mental assent.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. We are baptized because we are saved ... our regeneration, New Birth, according to the 1 stepper an the rest of Protest Orthodoxy, believes this happens at the point of faith and repent ...

For the baptismal regenerationist, one is forgiven at repentance but our sins are not remitted/washed/ wipe until the properly administered baptism ... this of course not found in the bible ... nor in the words of the Christ or the Apostles.

baptizer gets it right and helps in effectuating the application of the blood through his articulations.

God knows a humble and contrite ... heart he cannot reject or despise it .... therefore he knows in his Omniscience that a truly repentant life would or

would have not obeyed His Word though the love relationship He establishes in the heart of a believer.

1 Cor ... do you know what repentance really is ... and what it looks like ... since apparently you struggle with what faith is.

Are you God to know and peek into the hearts of men?

If so ... then your logic is sound.

[Jermyn Davidson]

I believe in the divine three-step mandate of repentance, water baptism, and Holy Ghost infilling to enter heaven. Also, I become weary hearing and reading one-stepper illustrations of the "what if theory." Here's a question for you one-steppers.

There's an atheist, the son of a Pentecostal preacher traveling via airplane and finally accepts the message of Jesus Christ. The atheist states he'll repent of his sins after landing, while in the presence of his father, and the airplane then explodes in mid-air.

Would God send a Pentecostal's preacher boy to hell after his determination was to repent in the presence of his physical father, that his physical father might rejoice with him, in the presence of a mighty merciful God?

I mean, surely, the same merciful God that saves a person after their determination to get baptized, and yet dies in a plane crash before being baptized, this very same merciful God will save a sinner whose determination was to repent, but dies in a plane crash, correct?

This is the same logic you one-steppers utilize, so your answer should be undoubtedly swift.

The "spirit" of this question is sickening. May God have mercy on all of us.

[Timmy]

Lost as two boys kissing!

And I'm not kidding!

:toofunny

(For those who don't know me well enough to "get" that: I don't believe two boys kissing are lost at all. :))

[SDG]

The "spirit" of this question is sickening. May God have mercy on all of us.

The post is wrought w/ the spirit of spiritual elitism and exclusivism that has isolated some to reject those filled w/ God's Spirit as His ... although He declares them His.

1 Cor may need to look at what he's advocating ... especially in determining w/ absolute certainty the mind of God and the heart of men.

Not to dismiss faulty understanding of what faith and repentance is.

[1Corinth2v4]

Repentance is a frame of mind. If he planned to repent in front of his earthly father, he has repented to God.

The atheist has planned to repent before dying. He was going to inquire of his father the proper method of repentence.


Changing your mind has nothing to do with changing your heart and/or sorrowing over and hating your sin.

[RandyWayne]

The atheist had determined to repent, without any doubt when in the presence of his father. The atheist was sincere in his actions.



Likewise, if the repented person had been baptized when he/she repented, they might of been well off too before dying in a plane-crash.


All the same logic.

For you not to see how misguided your premise is, is to mean that you have fallen totally into a TRUE works based salvation consisting of no more than "First, press button 1, then button 2, then button 3 and bingo. Saved!".
Grace, mercy, and most importantly, the cross -has left your building.

[SDG]

The atheist has planned to repent before dying. He was going to inquire of his father the proper method of repentence"


Frame of mind has nothing to do with changing your heart and/or sorrowing over and hating your sin.

Thank you then He did not accept the Gospel ... or perhaps understand it ... if he had truly believed ... he would have repented ...

The changing of heart ... btw, 1 Cor ... is done by the quickening of God's regenerative spirit of heart that surrenders to being born from above ...

Another huge failure in explaining what repentance is and who does the changing.

1 Cor ... what is faith ...?? What is repentance?

Basics in presenting the Gospel ... please enlighten us.

More confirmation that the 3 stepper causes his own salvation

[1Corinth2v4]

Thank you then He did not accept the Gospel ... or perhaps understand it ... if he had truly believed ... he would have repented ...




Daniel,

He had accepted the gospel, and was awaiting the direction of his physical father to further his steps in Christ.


If the one-stepper had truly repented, they would have obeyed the gospel by arising and washing away their sins (Acts 22:16).

[SDG]

Daniel,

He had accepted the gospel, and was awaiting the direction of his physical father to further his steps in Christ.


If the one-stepper had truly repented, they would have obeyed the gospel by arising and washing away their sins (Acts 22:16).

More baptismal regenerationist gobbly gook .... You just said the guy couldn't even properly repent ... much less get baptized ...

Acts 3:19 ... tells us to Repent, turn to God, so that our sins be wiped away ....

Baptism does not effectuate an extra spin cycle in God's plan of salvation ... His blood forgives and washes our sins when we place our entire trust in his Sacrifice and Resurrection (the Gospel) ...

Knowing the Gospel is not believing the Gospel ... which will lead to obedience or responding to the Gospel in the many commandments He is given to those He loves.

[1Corinth2v4]

More baptismal regenerationist gobbly gook .... You just said the guy couldn't even repent ... much less get baptized ...

Acts 2:19 ... tells us to Repent, turn to God, so that our sins be wiped away ....

Baptism does not effectuate an extra spin cycle in God's plan of salvation ... His blood forgives and washes our sins when we place our entire trust in his Sacrifice and Resurrection ...


Are you having fun manipulating my comments Daniel?


Please answer the question, is this atheist saved?

[SDG]

Are you having fun manipulating my comments Daniel?


Please answer the question, is this atheist saved?

Atheists don't believe in God much less acknowledge he exists ... HELLO ....

much less that He died and resurrected for their sins ... and that without placing faith in HIS DEATH and RESURRECTION they will not be saved.

Was that really your question?

(Way too easy ... anymore scenarios discussing the salvation of atheists?)

:snapout

[1Corinth2v4]

Atheists don't believe in God ... HELLO ....

much less that He died and resurrected for their sins ... and that without placing faith in HIS DEATH and RESURRECTION they will not be saved.

Was that really your question?

:snapout



Somehow you have overlooked the atheist's situation and have created your own plot. (sigh...a typical one-stepper)

[1Corinth2v4]

I believe in the divine three-step mandate of repentance, water baptism, and Holy Ghost infilling to enter heaven. Also, I become weary hearing and reading one-stepper illustrations of the "what if theory." Here's a question for you one-steppers.

There's an atheist, the son of a Pentecostal preacher traveling via airplane and finally accepts the message of Jesus Christ. The atheist states he'll repent of his sins after landing, while in the presence of his father, and the airplane then explodes in mid-air.

Would God send a Pentecostal's preacher boy to hell after his determination was to repent in the presence of his physical father, that his physical father might rejoice with him, in the presence of a mighty merciful God?

I mean, surely, the same merciful God that saves a person after their determination to get baptized, and yet dies in a plane crash before being baptized, this very same merciful God will save a sinner whose determination was to repent, but dies in a plane crash, correct?

This is the same logic you one-steppers utilize, so your answer should be undoubtedly swift.

Bump for Daniel.

[SDG]

More screwy logic ... from the 3 step crowd.

1. Repentance is a result of a heart that has genuinely placed their faith in the salvation provided by Jesus Christ from death and our sins. Does it need

to be articulated in front of someone? No. Can their be tears and snot and not be genuine? Yes.

Hence, making the determination to repent after ... may not believing on Jesus Christ ... a believer would repent ... it's procrastination, my good friend

.... to shut up Dad ... or uncertainty in the message ... both are UNBELIEF ... and for this one is condemned. Or did repent in his heart ... but understood that their would be a lifestyle change that would occur after stepping off that plane.

Repentance is not a one-stop shop at the altar... it is a heart that relies, surrenders, trusts, clings to Jesus Christ ... in faith and turns to Him in

action and deed.

Once again, another clear-cut example that my 3 step brethren don't know what faith means ... to them it's just mental assent.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. We are baptized because we are saved ... our regeneration, New Birth, according to the 1 stepper an the rest of Protest Orthodoxy, believes this happens at the point of faith and repent ...

For the baptismal regenerationist, one is forgiven at repentance but our sins are not remitted/washed/ wipe until the properly administered baptism ... this of course not found in the bible ... nor in the words of the Christ or the Apostles.

baptizer gets it right and helps in effectuating the application of the blood through his articulations.

God knows a humble and contrite ... heart he cannot reject or despise it .... therefore he knows in his Omniscience that a truly repentant life would or

would have not obeyed His Word though the love relationship He establishes in the heart of a believer.

1 Cor ... do you know what repentance really is ... and what it looks like ... since apparently you struggle with what faith is.

Are you God to know and peek into the hearts of men?

If so ... then your logic is sound.

BUMP FOR 1 COR ...

now stop wasting my posts ... I'm on the budget plan.

Atheists are not saved ... repentant believers are.

[tamor]

:bored :bored

[1Corinth2v4]

I believe in the divine three-step mandate of repentance, water baptism, and Holy Ghost infilling to enter heaven. Also, I become weary hearing and reading one-stepper illustrations of the "what if theory." Here's a question for you one-steppers.

There's an atheist, the son of a Pentecostal preacher traveling via airplane and finally accepts the message of Jesus Christ. The atheist states he'll repent of his sins after landing, while in the presence of his father, and the airplane then explodes in mid-air.
Would God send a Pentecostal's preacher boy to hell after his determination was to repent in the presence of his physical father, that his physical father might rejoice with him, in the presence of a mighty merciful God?
I mean, surely, the same merciful God that saves a person after their determination to get baptized, and yet dies in a plane crash before being baptized, this very same merciful God will save a sinner whose determination was to repent, but dies in a plane crash, correct?

This is the same logic you one-steppers utilize, so your answer should be undoubtedly swift.



Bump for Daniel.

A simple yes or no will suffice.

[1Corinth2v4]

BUMP FOR 1 COR ...

now stop wasting my posts ... I'm on the budget plan.

Atheists are not saved ... repentant believers are.




Understanding aa repentant person is saved, as you stated above, if this repentant person died without the infilling of the Holy Ghost, are they saved? :bigbaby

[SDG]

Bump for Daniel.

A simple yes or no will suffice.

Once again repentance is turning towards God and is birthed in faith ... not in the presence of person ... like his father ...

If he truly repented ... then ... physically crying or showing signs of remorse in the presence of his father do not determine whether this repentance is genuine or not.

And ... yes .... if his faith was genuine and his decision to turn to Christ took place on the plane ...

No.... if it was for a theatric presentation he wanted to do for dad ....

A third party does not mitigate salvation, 1 Cor ... although I know you believe that .... since salvation hangs on the words of a baptizer.

Again what is faith ... what is repentance ... do you clearly understand these concepts?

[StillStanding]

Somehow you have overlooked the atheist's situation and have created your own plot. (sigh...a typical one-stepper)
If the atheist planned to repent, that means he is not an atheist anymore. Why would he plan to repent to a God he doesn't believe in.

If the atheist now believed in God and planned to repent in the presence of his earthly father when he landed, he had already repented in his heart to God. Repentance is not physical words, but a change of heart!

[deltaguitar]

The danger of this type of doctrine is that the preacher's son feels like he needs to get to a pentecostal altar and have hands laid on him in order to pray through to be saved. So, he puts off getting "right" with God because of the doctrine he has been taught.

Really, though. Don't forget that he (the atheist) was probably baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost at a young age if his dad was a pentecostal preacher. So all he needs to do is be repentant as his sins have already been washed away (according to three-step doctrine).

:whistle

[1Corinth2v4]

If the atheist planned to repent, that means he is not an atheist anymore. Why would he plan to repent to a God he doesn't believe in.

If the atheist now believed in God and planned to repent in the presence of his earthly father when he landed, he had already repented in his heart to God. Repentance is not physical words, but a change of heart!

Really? Define repentance.

[1Corinth2v4]

BUMP FOR 1 COR ...


Atheists are not saved ... repentant believers are.




Understanding a repentant person is saved, as you stated above, if this repentant person died without the infilling of the Holy Ghost, are they saved? :bigbaby

Bump for Daniel

[RandyWayne]

The danger of this type of doctrine is that the preacher's son feels like he needs to get to a pentecostal altar and have hands laid on him in order to pray through to be saved. So, he puts off getting "right" with God because of the doctrine he has been taught.

Really, though. Don't forget that he (the atheist) was probably baptized and filled with the Holy Ghost at a young age if his dad was a pentecostal preacher. So all he needs to do is be repentant as his sins have already been washed away (according to three-step doctrine).

:whistle

This is a good point. He feels that he won't be saved anyways until he gets home and baptized by a pentecostal preacher. So he puts it off.

[Ron]

All these "what ifs" what about "what sayeth the book?"

Read & obey Acts 2:38 & you will have confidence!

[Sherri]

Really? Define repentance.
Me, me.....let me..........
Repentance just means a change of mind, or change of direction. It literally meant "about face" in the Greek. It is when you are on a road toward hell and you turn around and start toward God. It is not crying in an altar, although it can be accompanied by that. It may not be emotional at all. It is a decision to turn from following your own ways and beginning to follow God's ways.

We laughed for years at Baptists saying someone made a "decision for the Lord" but that's what repentance literally means. I've seen a lot of people weep and cry in an altar because they were emotionally moved and then go out and live the same way when they left church. They never really made a life changing decision, but were moved at the moment. Give me a decision anytime!

[OnTheFritz]

All these "what ifs" what about "what sayeth the book?"

Read & obey Acts 2:38 & you will have confidence!

Including the confidence (and audacity) to know the mind of God, apparently.

[Ron]

Me, me.....let me..........
Repentance just means a change of mind, or change of direction. It literally meant "about face" in the Greek. It is when you are on a road toward hell and you turn around and start toward God. It is not crying in an altar, although it can be accompanied by that. It may not be emotional at all. It is a decision to turn from following your own ways and beginning to follow God's ways.

We laughed for years at Baptists saying someone made a "decision for the Lord" but that's what repentance literally means. I've seen a lot of people weep and cry in an altar because they were emotionally moved and then go out and live the same way when they left church. They never really made a life changing decision, but were moved at the moment. Give me a decision anytime!

Very true.

Actually there are two words in the Greek covering repentance, one means having a Godly sorrow & the other means to do an about face and go the other way.

It isn't supposed to be all emotional.

When I came to God many years ago, I started chucking out my playboys, occult books, & all my rock albums, & I still wanted to know what repentance meant!

Nobody told me to do that.

[pelathais]

I believe in the divine three-step mandate of repentance, water baptism, and Holy Ghost infilling to enter heaven. Also, I become weary hearing and reading one-stepper illustrations of the "what if theory." Here's a question for you one-steppers.

There's an atheist, the son of a Pentecostal preacher traveling via airplane and finally accepts the message of Jesus Christ. The atheist states he'll repent of his sins after landing, while in the presence of his father, and the airplane then explodes in mid-air.

Would God send a Pentecostal's preacher boy to hell after his determination was to repent in the presence of his physical father, that his physical father might rejoice with him, in the presence of a mighty merciful God?

I mean, surely, the same merciful God that saves a person after their determination to get baptized, and yet dies in a plane crash before being baptized, this very same merciful God will save a sinner whose determination was to repent, but dies in a plane crash, correct?

This is the same logic you one-steppers utilize, so your answer should be undoubtedly swift.
You appear to be sadly ignorant of what it means to have "saving faith in Jesus Christ..."

You seem to be so steeped in "works based" salvation that you see salvation as a "to do list..." Thus "repentance" is something your hypothetical "preacher's boy" can simply add to his schedule along with his laundry and yard work.

If the "preacher's boy" truly came to a saving faith in Jesus Christ while on the aircraft, his repentance would have been immediate. And so, all that would remain in your story would be for the young man to carry the report of his conversion to his father.

It is the report of his conversion that would have been interrupted by the imagined explosion, not the young man's repentance.

It may be that he was also convicted in his heart about some angry words that he had shared with his father at some point - Repentance would of course necessitate apologies and reconciliation, but that involves his relationship with his earthly father.

You really need to see conversion and belief in Jesus Christ as an interactation between the human heart and the Holy Spirit. Once you have done so, I believe that you will understand saving faith more clearly.

[pelathais]

Including the confidence (and audacity) to know the mind of God, apparently.
An excellent observation. The original post in this thread reeks and drips of so much hubris that I worry about the author.

[1Corinth2v4]

Me, me.....let me..........
Repentance just means a change of mind, or change of direction. It literally meant "about face" in the Greek. It is when you are on a road toward hell and you turn around and start toward God. It is not crying in an altar, although it can be accompanied by that. It may not be emotional at all. It is a decision to turn from following your own ways and beginning to follow God's ways.

We laughed for years at Baptists saying someone made a "decision for the Lord" but that's what repentance literally means. I've seen a lot of people weep and cry in an altar because they were emotionally moved and then go out and live the same way when they left church. They never really made a life changing decision, but were moved at the moment. Give me a decision anytime!



Sherri,


If I watched porn on an airplane, then think to myself I think I'll stop watching porn, and I fail to ask God to firgive me, is that repentance?

[TRFrance]

I believe in the divine three-step mandate of repentance, water baptism, and Holy Ghost infilling to enter heaven. Also, I become weary hearing and reading one-stepper illustrations of the "what if theory." Here's a question for you one-steppers.

There's an atheist, the son of a Pentecostal preacher traveling via airplane and finally accepts the message of Jesus Christ. The atheist states he'll repent of his sins after landing, while in the presence of his father, and the airplane then explodes in mid-air.

Would God send a Pentecostal's preacher boy to hell after his determination was to repent in the presence of his physical father, that his physical father might rejoice with him, in the presence of a mighty merciful God?

I mean, surely, the same merciful God that saves a person after their determination to get baptized, and yet dies in a plane crash before being baptized, this very same merciful God will save a sinner whose determination was to repent, but dies in a plane crash, correct?

This is the same logic you one-steppers utilize, so your answer should be undoubtedly swift.
NOW THAT.WAS. FUNNY!!
:ursofunny

[Sherri]

Sherri,


If I watched porn on an airplane, then think to myself I think I'll stop watching porn, and I fail to ask God to firgive me, is that repentance?It's not just stopping something for the sake of stopping. It's turning toward God, and I believe that involves asking for forgiveness of sins. But ultimately it's a decision to do right.

[Encryptus]

We are in agreement.

Just as an individual who has repented and yet failed to get baptized before death, they're both destined to hell and the lake of fire.

Then your Hypothetical is really irrelevant.

Suppose he hears the gospel for the first time on the plane and does repent.

It explodes, so according to you he spends eternity burning anyway.

(No place to get immersed on the plane)



Really you are too much.

[dizzyde]

An excellent observation. The original post in this thread reeks and drips of so much hubris that I worry about the author.

The line forms here...

[1Corinth2v4]

It's not just stopping something for the sake of stopping. It's turning toward God, and I believe that involves asking for forgiveness of sins. But ultimately it's a decision to do right.

You failed to answer my question.

Yes or No?

[1Corinth2v4]

Then your Hypothetical is really irrelevant.

Suppose he hears the gospel for the first time on the plane and does repent.

It explodes, so according to you he spends eternity burning anyway.

(No place to get immersed on the plane)



Really you are too much.


Obviously you've missed my message.

[1Corinth2v4]

BUMP FOR 1 COR ...


Atheists are not saved ... repentant believers are.




Understanding a repentant person is saved, as you stated above, if this repentant person died without the infilling of the Holy Ghost, are they saved? :bigbaby




Bump for Daniel



Bump for Daniel Alicia

[StillStanding]

Sherri,


If I watched porn on an airplane, then think to myself I think I'll stop watching porn, and I fail to ask God to firgive me, is that repentance?

It's not just stopping something for the sake of stopping. It's turning toward God, and I believe that involves asking for forgiveness of sins. But ultimately it's a decision to do right.

You failed to answer my question.

Yes or No?

To answer your question, yes it is repentance, but not godly repentance!

[1Corinth2v4]

To answer your question, yes it is repentance, but not godly repentance!

:ursofunny

[Baron1710]

Did the athiest repent for all the lies he told while on the plane? Or did he just pretend he never told them? Hypothetically speaking.

[1Corinth2v4]

Then your Hypothetical is really irrelevant.

Suppose he hears the gospel for the first time on the plane and does repent.

It explodes, so according to you he spends eternity burning anyway.

(No place to get immersed on the plane)

Really you are too much.


I have enough faith to believe God will keep his plane from exploding, and will allow him to complete the CORRECT process.

He who began a good work in you will perfect it!

[1Corinth2v4]

Did the athiest repent for all the lies he told while on the plane? Or did he just pretend he never told them? Hypothetically speaking.

Go back and read the story.

[StillStanding]

:ursofunny

I'm puzzled at what you find humorous in my statement! :crazy

By definition, repentance is a change of mind. Godly repentance is a change of heart toward the things of God.

[pelathais]

You appear to be sadly ignorant of what it means to have "saving faith in Jesus Christ..."

You seem to be so steeped in "works based" salvation that you see salvation as a "to do list..." Thus "repentance" is something your hypothetical "preacher's boy" can simply add to his schedule along with his laundry and yard work.

If the "preacher's boy" truly came to a saving faith in Jesus Christ while on the aircraft, his repentance would have been immediate. And so, all that would remain in your story would be for the young man to carry the report of his conversion to his father.

It is the report of his conversion that would have been interrupted by the imagined explosion, not the young man's repentance.

It may be that he was also convicted in his heart about some angry words that he had shared with his father at some point - Repentance would of course necessitate apologies and reconciliation, but that involves his relationship with his earthly father.

You really need to see conversion and belief in Jesus Christ as an interactation between the human heart and the Holy Spirit. Once you have done so, I believe that you will understand saving faith more clearly.
Okay... bump for 1Corinth2v4

And before you make yourself look even sillier - how about cleaning up your sig line? Your attempt at hautiness fails when you use such poor English. You merely come across as absurd and embarrass the rest of us Apostolics who fear that the lurkers will put us all into the same basket as your sophomoric rants.

[1Corinth2v4]

cough

[mizpeh]

Me, me.....let me..........
Repentance just means a change of mind, or change of direction. It literally meant "about face" in the Greek. It is when you are on a road toward hell and you turn around and start toward God. It is not crying in an altar, although it can be accompanied by that. It may not be emotional at all. It is a decision to turn from following your own ways and beginning to follow God's ways.

We laughed for years at Baptists saying someone made a "decision for the Lord" but that's what repentance literally means. I've seen a lot of people weep and cry in an altar because they were emotionally moved and then go out and live the same way when they left church. They never really made a life changing decision, but were moved at the moment. Give me a decision anytime!

Great post, Sherri!

[pelathais]

cough
???

C'mon Ma... I mean 1Corinth2v4 - engage.

[Aquila]

Here's a better one. Let's say a man is a prisoner of war and is kept in solitary confinement. He remembers how his daddy always warned him of Hell and pleaded with him to just believe and obey the Lord the day he got the Holy Ghost, but he was never baptized. The young soldier begins to come to the realization that he may very well die before being released. And he begins to cry with sobbing tears for God to forgive his stupidity, his unbelief, and his sins. Suddenly the door swings open and five mask wearing Taliban soldiers walk into the room. They begin screaming in Arabic and pull him up by his hair. They drag him down the hall into another room and blindfold him. They begin screaming "Al akbar, al akbar, al akbar!" He hears them surrounding him and the unsheathing of a large blade. He begins to scream, "Save me! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!" The Taliban soldiers then mercilessly push him to his knees and behead him.

Did he die and stand before God and be cast out because his captives would have never allowed him to be water baptized?

[Aquila]

Here's a question I have always had that no three stepper has yet to answer.

If sins are not forgiven until one is water baptized...how do people receive the Holy Ghost immediately after repentance?

God will not dwell in an unclean and unforgiven temple. It shouldn't even be possible for someone to receive the Holy Ghost prior to water baptism if sins are not forgiven at repentance.

In my opinion they seem to see the Holy Ghost as an impersonal energy that will flow through any door at the whim of a person. If the Holy Ghost is indeed the very Spirit of God, he chooses to infill those who have repented though they are unbaptized. Why?

[pelathais]

Here's a question I have always had that no three stepper has yet to answer.

If sins are not forgiven until one is water baptized...how do people receive the Holy Ghost immediately after repentance?

God will not dwell in an unclean and unforgiven temple. It shouldn't even be possible for someone to receive the Holy Ghost prior to water baptism if sins are not forgiven at repentance.

In my opinion they seem to see the Holy Ghost as an impersonal energy that will flow through any door at the whim of a person. If the Holy Ghost is indeed the very Spirit of God, he chooses to infill those who have repented though they are unbaptized. Why?
"cough"

Let's see, however... Steve Epley's response will be to start a new thread stating something like:

"That means you believe in gay marriage and abortion...!!!"

Ma... I mean 1Corinth2v4's response will be something like:

"Your obviously to stuped two reason with...!!!"

[1Corinth2v4]

"Your obviously to stuped two reason with...!!!"


I believe admin doesn't approve of that word. Perhaps they'll make an exception since you didn't know how to spell it.

Either or, it was the motive behind your word.

[Aquila]

My point is that God chooses to infill unbaptized believers. This is only possible if they have been forgiven of their sins. What God actually does should override our pet theologies.

Now...if a repentant person refuses to be water baptized and dies in rebellion, they will be lost. But if a person repents of their sins and fully intends to obey and is killed before baptism, God knows and judges based on the heart...not based on Three-Stepper sacrementalism

[Ron]

My point is that God chooses to infill unbaptized believers. This is only possible if they have been forgiven of their sins. What God actually does should override our pet theologies.

Now...if a repentant person refuses to be water baptized and dies in rebellion, they will be lost. But if a person repents of their sins and fully intends to obey and is killed before baptism, God knows and judges based on the heart...not based on Three-Stepper sacrementalism

What God does is his prerogative.
Our duty is to teach,preach, & obey Acts 2:38 salvation message.

Anything else is just speculation.

[Aquila]

What God does is his prerogative.
Our duty is to teach,preach, & obey Acts 2:38 salvation message.

Anything else is just speculation.

Surely we all should preach repentance, what baptism in Jesus name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. However, we have people condemning people to a devil's Hell for being unforgiven of their sins because they lack water baptism...but God fills people with the Holy Ghost without baptism. That tells us that God is at odds with these 3 Steppers.

[Ron]

Surely we all should preach repentance, what baptism in Jesus name, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost. However, we have people condemning people to a devil's Hell for being unforgiven of their sins because they lack water baptism...but God fills people with the Holy Ghost without baptism. That tells us that God is at odds with these 3 Steppers.

What is at odds is this, I believe the word says that there is one salvation plan to mankind that is Acts 2:38. I believe the word states that if one doesn't obey Acts 2:38 they are lost.

Now as for judging people as to thier eternal wherabouts, that is up to God.

We preach and teach em all--God sorts them out.

[Aquila]

What is at odds is this, I believe the word says that there is one salvation plan to mankind that is Acts 2:38. I believe the word states that if one doesn't obey Acts 2:38 they are lost.

Now as for judging people as to thier eternal wherabouts, that is up to God.

We preach and teach em all--God sorts them out.

So you're saying we should preach that people will go to Hell without all three steps...even though this might not be true? That's some sloppy stuff bro. Is this what becomes of the Three Stepper when confronted with what God actually does?

[Cindy]

Repentance is a frame of mind. If he planned to repent in front of his earthly father, he has repented to God.

There is more to repentance than an intent to repent, and it is more than a frame of mind PM. That is like making conditions for salvation. I will if.

[pelathais]

What is at odds is this, I believe the word says that there is one salvation plan to mankind that is Acts 2:38. I believe the word states that if one doesn't obey Acts 2:38 they are lost.

Now as for judging people as to thier eternal wherabouts, that is up to God.

We preach and teach em all--God sorts them out.
I appreciate your words here Ron, but can you encapsulate where "the word says that there is one salvation plan to mankind that is Acts 2:38"?

I don't believe even Acts 2:38 says that.

And where does it say, "that if one doesn't obey Acts 2:38 they are lost"?

I appreciate your spirit and wisdom and I once whole-heartily tended to agreed with you on the "Acts 2:38 Message"®, but I've always been troubled by the exclusivity of this.

[Ron]

So you're saying we should preach that all people will go to Hell without all three steps...even though they might not really? That's some sloppy stuff bro.

How is it sloppy?

Is there not an Acts 2:38 message?
Does it not state that there are three essential parts of our Salvation?

I mean we have gone at it around and around with three steppers and one steppers & even one steppers concede that it is needed.

It is a straight case of "is it essential or not?"

If the answer is not, than a whole bunch of scriptures are not necessary & are irrelevant, not to mention the Apostles taught Water Baptism in Jesus name & the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

[Cindy]

More screwy logic ... from the 3 step crowd.

1. Repentance is a result of a heart that has genuinely placed their faith in the salvation provided by Jesus Christ from death and our sins. Does it need

to be articulated in front of someone? No. Can their be tears and snot and not be genuine? Yes.

Hence, making the determination to repent after ... may not believing on Jesus Christ ... a believer would repent ... it's procrastination, my good friend

.... to shut up Dad ... or uncertainty in the message ... both are UNBELIEF ... and for this one is condemned.

Or maybe he did repent in his heart ... but understood that their would be a lifestyle change that would occur after stepping off that plane.

Repentance is not a one-stop shop at the altar... it is a heart that relies, surrenders, trusts, clings to Jesus Christ ... in faith and turns to Him in

action and deed.

Once again, another clear-cut example that my 3 step brethren don't know what faith means ... to them it's just mental assent.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

2. We are baptized because we are saved ... our regeneration, New Birth, according to the 1 stepper an the rest of Protest Orthodoxy, believes this happens at the point of faith and repent ...

For the baptismal regenerationist, one is forgiven at repentance but our sins are not remitted/washed/ wipe until the properly administered baptism ... this of course not found in the bible ... nor in the words of the Christ or the Apostles.

baptizer gets it right and helps in effectuating the application of the blood through his articulations.

God knows a humble and contrite ... heart he cannot reject or despise it .... therefore he knows in his Omniscience that a truly repentant life would or

would have not obeyed His Word though the love relationship He establishes in the heart of a believer.

1 Cor ... do you know what repentance really is ... and what it looks like ... since apparently you struggle with what faith is.

Are you God to know and peek into the hearts of men?

If so ... then your logic is sound.


And here you are Daniel with your usual. I am right and if you don't believe what I do you are wrong. Repentance is not a condition to salvation, I will when or if. That is wrong, no steps at all.

[Cindy]

The "spirit" of this question is sickening. May God have mercy on all of us.

Yeah, just like all the other what if questions here lately. People just don't like it when the shoe is on the other foot.

[Ron]

I appreciate your words here Ron, but can you encapsulate where "the word says that there is one salvation plan to mankind that is Acts 2:38"?

I don't believe even Acts 2:38 says that.

And where does it say, "that if one doesn't obey Acts 2:38 they are lost"?

I appreciate your spirit and wisdom and I once whole-heartily tended to agreed with you on the "Acts 2:38 Message"®, but I've always been troubled by the exclusivity of this.

Was God being exclusive in Noah's day?
Was he exclusive when he "only" spoke to Abraham?
What about Moses, that was pretty exclusive in cutting out the Egyptians don't you think?

It isn't exclusive at all, when you think that the command is to whosoever will.
Every man, woman, & child has this promise to them.

Is God at fault if they choose otherwise?

[Aquila]

How is it sloppy?

Is there not an Acts 2:38 message?
Does it not state that there are three essential parts of our Salvation?

I mean we have gone at it around and around with three steppers and one steppers & even one steppers concede that it is needed.

It is a straight case of "is it essential or not?"

If the answer is not, than a whole bunch of scriptures are not necessary & are irrelevant, not to mention the Apostles taught Water Baptism in Jesus name & the infilling of the Holy Ghost.

Bro...your post insinuated that we should preach that all who don't obey Acts 2:38 are lost. But then you left open a possibility that God might judge differently, that's what's sloppy. That's like committing to preach something that might not be true.

[Bro-Larry]

I believe in the divine three-step mandate of repentance, water baptism, and Holy Ghost infilling to enter heaven. Also, I become weary hearing and reading one-stepper illustrations of the "what if theory." Here's a question for you one-steppers.

There's an atheist, the son of a Pentecostal preacher traveling via airplane and finally accepts the message of Jesus Christ. The atheist states he'll repent of his sins after landing, while in the presence of his father, and the airplane then explodes in mid-air.

Would God send a Pentecostal's preacher boy to hell after his determination was to repent in the presence of his physical father, that his physical father might rejoice with him, in the presence of a mighty merciful God?

I mean, surely, the same merciful God that saves a person after their determination to get baptized, and yet dies in a plane crash before being baptized, this very same merciful God will save a sinner whose determination was to repent, but dies in a plane crash, correct?

This is the same logic you one-steppers utilize, so your answer should be undoubtedly swift.

Bro/Sista?, It seems from your post, that your idea of repentance is going to a Apostolic altar, crying, telling God you are sorry, asking Him to forgive sins which Jesus has already suffered pain and death to forgive and then getting up, and promising your self that you are never going to sin again.

If this isn't your perception of repentance, would you describe for me what you believe it is.?

[Cindy]

The post is wrought w/ the spirit of spiritual elitism and exclusivism that has isolated some to reject those filled w/ God's Spirit as His ... although He declares them His.

1 Cor may need to look at what he's advocating ... especially in determining w/ absolute certainty the mind of God and the heart of men.

Not to dismiss faulty understanding of what faith and repentance is.


Like yours is any different Daniel? Only when you say it is.

[Nahum]

Pelathais, I agree.

His sig line is embawassing.

[pelathais]

And here you are Daniel with your usual. I am right and if you don't believe what I do you are wrong. Repentance is not a condition to salvation, I will when or if. That is wrong, no steps at all.
No steps? Hey! Finally someone I can agree with on this.

And I think DA would probably agree too, but he's easily riled, especially by Ma... I mean 1Corinth2v1... I mean 4.

[Ron]

Bro...your post insinuated that we should preach that all who don't obey Acts 2:38 are lost. But then you left open a possibility that God might judge differently, that's what's sloppy. That's like committing to preach something that might not be true.

How is it?
What does the word state?
Obey Acts 2:38.

God is God & can do whatever he believes is just.

What about Enoch or Elijah?

God in his sovereignty let those men escape death?

Was he not sovereign in that act?

I can't teach that God will act that way again, he may, he may not, but I can't share Acts 2:38 message with everyone.

[Aquila]

Was God being exclusive in Noah's day?
Was he exclusive when he "only" spoke to Abraham?
What about Moses, that was pretty exclusive in cutting out the Egyptians don't you think?

It isn't exclusive at all, when you think that the command is to whosoever will.
Every man, woman, & child has this promise to them.

Is God at fault if they choose otherwise?

We're talking about the Gospel here.

I believe that when one repents they are forgiven of their sins, they are then expected to obey and be water baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost. I believe that if they refuse to obey they are in grave danger...if they get killed by a bus on the way to their baptism they are judged according to their heart.

The issue is motive. Why is one unbaptized? If it's circumstantial there is grace. If it's rebellion or indifference, there is judgment.

The issue is obedience. Not requirement.

[Ron]

We're talking about the Gospel here.

I believe that when one repents they are forgiven of their sins, they are then expected to obey and be water baptized in Jesus name and filled with the Holy Ghost. I believe that if they refuse to obey they are in grave danger...if they get killed by a buss on the way to their baptism they are judged according to their heart.

The issue is motive. Why is one unbaptized? If it's circumstantial there is grace. If it's rebellion or indifference, there is judgment.

I do have a plan of salvation that is Acts 2:38.

Where is your scripture for this in the bolded part?
I mean it is nice and all, and I would personally like for Heaven to be popuated with every man, woman, & child.

Hell should only be for Lucifer and his angels.

[Aquila]

I do have a plan of salvation that is Acts 2:38.

Where is your scripture for this in the bolded part?
I mean it is nice and all, and I would personally like for Heaven to be popuated with every man, woman, & child.

Hell should only be for Lucifer and his angels.

If a person dies on the way to their baptism are they not dying in obedience to Acts 2:38?

The issue is a heart of obedience...not sacramental requirement.

[pelathais]

Was God being exclusive in Noah's day?
Was he exclusive when he "only" spoke to Abraham?
What about Moses, that was pretty exclusive in cutting out the Egyptians don't you think?

It isn't exclusive at all, when you think that the command is to whosoever will.
Every man, woman, & child has this promise to them.

Is God at fault if they choose otherwise?
Noah and his family were selected for salvation and the call to Abraham was by definition "exclusivistic." But this was an "exclusion" that God Himself made. Noah and Abraham both seemed to be open to the idea that others might join in with them in their salvation.

It seems that no one in Genesis 6-9 ever even had the opportunity to repent. Though Peter seems to infer that they did (1 Peter 3:20); but only Noah was said to have found "grace" and only Noah was called.

The salvation found by Noah and Abraham begins with God's selection and His call. God chose to save them. That's what saved them, God's choice to do so. This is called "grace." This "exclusivity" is an exercise by God and not man. The fact that "Noah preached" seems to show that the man himself exercised no such exclusive judgments.

So also it is with the New Testament believer (Ephesians 1:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Peter 2:9).

We preach Acts 2:38, just as Noah built the boat. And though in the end only Noah and his family went onto that boat, we must have the same expectations that Noah seemed to have that the grace of salvation was still available to everyone.

[Ron]

If a person dies on the way to their baptism are they not dying in obedience to Acts 2:38?

The issue is a heart of obedience...not sacramental requirement.

Noah and his family were selected for salvation and the call to Abraham was by definition "exclusivistic." But this was an "exclusion" that God Himself made. Noah and Abraham both seemed to be open to the idea that others might join in with them in their salvation.

It seems that no one in Genesis 6-9 ever even had the opportunity to repent. Though Peter seems to infer that they did (1 Peter 3:20); but only Noah was said to have found "grace" and only Noah was called.

The salvation found by Noah and Abraham begins with God's selection and His call. God chose to save them. That's what saved them, God's choice to do so. This is called "grace." This "exclusivity" is an exercise by God and not man. The fact that "Noah preached" seems to show that the man himself exercised no such exclusive judgments.

So also it is with the New Testament believer (Ephesians 1:4; 2 Thessalonians 2:13; 1 Peter 1:2; 1 Peter 2:9).

We preach Acts 2:38, just as Noah built the boat. And though in the end only Noah and his family went onto that boat, we must have the same expectations that Noah seemed to have that the grace of salvation was still available to everyone.

I only know of one salvation plan.
God was not under obligation to give me one.
That is Grace.

Would to God that everybody would obtain the same salvation.
It is available to them.

[steve p]

If a tree fell in a forest....and no one was there to hear it.....would it make any sound?
Why do we park on driveways and drive on parkways?
These statements seem very fitting for this thread.........and make just about as much sense!
Blessings!

[Rico]

Has it been 7 days already? :D

[Rico]

Here's a better one. Let's say a man is a prisoner of war and is kept in solitary confinement. He remembers how his daddy always warned him of Hell and pleaded with him to just believe and obey the Lord the day he got the Holy Ghost, but he was never baptized. The young soldier begins to come to the realization that he may very well die before being released. And he begins to cry with sobbing tears for God to forgive his stupidity, his unbelief, and his sins. Suddenly the door swings open and five mask wearing Taliban soldiers walk into the room. They begin screaming in Arabic and pull him up by his hair. They drag him down the hall into another room and blindfold him. They begin screaming "Al akbar, al akbar, al akbar!" He hears them surrounding him and the unsheathing of a large blade. He begins to scream, "Save me! Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus, Jesus!" The Taliban soldiers then mercilessly push him to his knees and behead him.

Did he die and stand before God and be cast out because his captives would have never allowed him to be water baptized?

There are no atheists in foxholes.

[Encryptus]

Then your Hypothetical is really irrelevant.

Suppose he hears the gospel for the first time on the plane and does repent.

It explodes, so according to you he spends eternity burning anyway.

(No place to get immersed on the plane)



Really you are too much.

I have enough faith to believe God will keep his plane from exploding, and will allow him to complete the CORRECT process.

He who began a good work in you will perfect it!

I love it, The MAGIC Airplane. That's even better than holy hair.

Have you considered filing a suit with Columbia Law School and Urshan Seminary?

Not sure which is worse the theology or the attempts at logic....
_____________________________________________
Someone who repents CANNOT be killed under any circumstances before they have a chance to be baptized.

Final answer?

[Monkeyman]

Unless he was flying Southwest....He would have repented waaaay before EVER stepping on one of those junk planes!!!!

[Nahum]

"You are now free to move about the country."

[Ron]

Unless he was flying Southwest....He would have repented waaaay before EVER stepping on one of those junk planes!!!!

How about flying on Scare B.C?:ursofunny

[pelathais]

There are no atheists in foxholes.
Actually I met one once. He was very much the atheist and also a very candid and open gentlemen. Candid enough to admit that he emptied his bladder in that foxhole while under a very heavy artillery barrage during Desert Storm.

He was literally lifted up and thrown back down - hard! by the concussions. Fortunately his squad all made it but they were a mess afterward. And this guy was still an atheist. He was scared enough that he "wet" himself - but he was still convinced of his unbelief.

[Nahum]

Actually I met one once. He was very much the atheist and also a very candid and open gentlemen. Candid enough to admit that he emptied his bladder in that foxhole while under a very heavy artillery barrage during Desert Storm.

He was literally lifted up and thrown back down - hard! by the concussions. Fortunately his squad all made it but they were a mess afterward. And this guy was still an atheist.

I don't believe it.
















:whistle

[Ron]

Actually I met one once. He was very much the atheist and also a very candid and open gentlemen. Candid enough to admit that he emptied his bladder in that foxhole while under a very heavy artillery barrage during Desert Storm.

He was literally lifted up and thrown back down - hard! by the concussions. Fortunately his squad all made it but they were a mess afterward. And this guy was still an atheist. He was scared enough that he "wet" himself - but he was still convinced of his unbelief.

I don't believe it.
















:whistle

I am not surprised.
When God is pouring out his judgments in Revelations it says that men will curse God instead of repent!

[pelathais]

I don't believe it.

:whistle
It's hard to argue with a man who is so earnest that he confessed to wetting his pants.

[Nahum]

It's hard to argue with a man who is so earnest that he confessed to wetting his pants.

No it's not.

Try this tactic.

No matter what he says, demand proof and then state "I don't believe it."

[pelathais]

No it's not.

Try this tactic.

No matter what he says, demand proof and then state "I don't believe it."
Well, once a man confesses to a weak bladder - I'd just as soon not "prod." You know what I mean?

[Praxeas]

There is more to repentance than an intent to repent, and it is more than a frame of mind PM. That is like making conditions for salvation. I will if.
Not at all. Repentance is an intent. You can repent in an instant...the fruits of such repentance can be many and long lasting. For example upon first repenting you may feel genuine remorse and cry or you might feel joy...the continued fruit will be walking with the Lord away from your past life

[Praxeas]

I met an atheist once, but we were in a rabbit hole so he did not have any problems.

[pelathais]

I met an atheist once, but we were in a rabbit hole so he did not have any problems.
Did he have a funny hat? I fell into a rabbit hole once and you would believe the people I met.

[Praxeas]

Did he have a funny hat? I fell into a rabbit hole once and you would believe the people I met.
yes as a matter of fact he did. :ursofunny

[Rico]

Actually I met one once. He was very much the atheist and also a very candid and open gentlemen. Candid enough to admit that he emptied his bladder in that foxhole while under a very heavy artillery barrage during Desert Storm.

He was literally lifted up and thrown back down - hard! by the concussions. Fortunately his squad all made it but they were a mess afterward. And this guy was still an atheist. He was scared enough that he "wet" himself - but he was still convinced of his unbelief.

Maybe once he got out of that foxhole.

[Brad Murphy]

I flew for 17 hours yesterday and my plane did not blow up...

[Michael Phelps]

Obviously you've missed my message.

It's quite easy to miss something that isn't there.