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View Full Version : Is Homosexuality demon possesion or learned behavi


live4him
07-12-2008, 10:10 PM
homosexuality is running out of control in our country, why is it, whats happening to out country. i know we are living in the end times, but everywhere ya go you will see these people around, you do not have to be rude to them as christians but we do not have to accept their sin either, it has even crept in our churches, and it is not even preached about anymore, what are we scared to preach the truth or is it gay bashing, :snapout

Sam
07-12-2008, 10:21 PM
I don't have an answer to this. Experts (both looking at it from a human standpoint and from a spiritual standpoint) can't agree among themselves.

In my opinion, homosexuality can be any or several of the following:
--part of our human/sinful nature from birth (not all are affected nor respond the same way)
--demonically inspired
--psychologically induced
--strongly promoted by the media and the secular educational system
--a learned behavior

Also, in my opinion, there is a difference between a person who is a homosexual and a person who is living the homosexual lifestyle.

live4him
07-12-2008, 10:24 PM
is it not demon posession? what does scripture tell us.?

Rhoni
07-12-2008, 10:24 PM
Oh please...get over it. This has been discussed out to whazoo.

Blessings, Rhoni

Cindy
07-12-2008, 10:26 PM
God and sin cannot live in the same heart. They are sinners and need to be saved.

live4him
07-12-2008, 10:28 PM
Oh please...get over it. This has been discussed out to whazoo.

Blessings, Rhoni

than you must have the answer.. explain yourself.

Rico
07-12-2008, 10:44 PM
I believe someone can be a homosexual and not demon possessed. I also believe that some homosexuals are under the control of a demonic spirit.

live4him
07-12-2008, 10:48 PM
so they must be demon possessed if they are under the control of a demon--right?

rrford
07-12-2008, 10:49 PM
I don't have an answer to this. Experts (both looking at it from a human standpoint and from a spiritual standpoint) can't agree among themselves.

In my opinion, homosexuality can be any or several of the following:
--part of our human/sinful nature from birth (not all are affected nor respond the same way)
--demonically inspired
--psychologically induced
--strongly promoted by the media and the secular educational system
--a learned behavior

Also, in my opinion, there is a difference between a person who is a homosexual and a person who is living the homosexual lifestyle.

I would probably strongly disagree with that premise without further clarification. At face value you seem to be saying "some are born that way."

Rico
07-12-2008, 10:51 PM
so they must be demon possessed if they are under the control of a demon--right?

Not necessarily. Some can be influenced by a spirit without actually having that spirit living inside of them. Take the majority of Christians. They're being influenced by the Spirit of God, but that doesn't mean they have the Spirit of God living in them.

Rico
07-12-2008, 10:52 PM
I would probably strongly disagree with that premise without further clarification. At face value you seem to be saying "some are born that way."

I don't doubt for a minute that some homosexuals are born that way.

live4him
07-12-2008, 10:55 PM
Not necessarily. Some can be influenced by a spirit without actually having that spirit living inside of them. Take the majority of Christians. They're being influenced by the Spirit of God, but that doesn't mean they have the Spirit of God living in them.

you do have apoint there, i do not beleive though that you are born that way,, i do beleive it could be a generational curse, or just a demon possessed spirit,:evilglee

rrford
07-12-2008, 10:58 PM
I don't doubt for a minute that some homosexuals are born that way.

Then you must also believe some are born to be adulterers, child molesters and other types of perverts, correct?

StMark
07-12-2008, 11:00 PM
homosexuality is running out of control in our country, why is it, whats happening to out country. i know we are living in the end times, but everywhere ya go you will see these people around, you do not have to be rude to them as christians but we do not have to accept their sin either, it has even crept in our churches, and it is not even preached about anymore, what are we scared to preach the truth or is it gay bashing, :snapout



Where are you at ??? I'm in California & I have to admit
it is RAMPANT out here but when I go other parts of the
country not so much such as the south - maybe more hidden?
I don't know.

I read a report that the milk and dairy products have caused
a big increase in homosexuals

live4him
07-12-2008, 11:04 PM
Where are you at ??? I'm in California & I have to admit
it is RAMPANT out here but when I go other parts of the
country not so much such as the south - maybe more hidden?
I don't know.

I read a report that the milk and dairy products have caused
a big increase in homosexuals

we are in Indiana, bloomington where the kinsey institute is, of course the college out here to, it is like sanfransisco. i think i am going to stop drinking milk or eating ice cream,-- and it sure aint hidden out here, it is in the open as though they are hetrosexuals.

Rico
07-12-2008, 11:04 PM
Then you must also believe some are born to be adulterers, child molesters and other types of perverts, correct?

I don't know about adulterers as a whole, but I have known some men who simply could not be faithful no matter how hard they try. I've heard that scientists have found a difference in the brain of homosexuals and those of heterosexuals. I think eventually they will find whatever it is that causes homosexuality. There may be a difference in the brains of people engaged in other types of deviant sexual behaviour.

StMark
07-12-2008, 11:06 PM
we are in Indiana, bloomington where the kinsey institute is, of course the college out here to, it is like sanfransisco. i think i am going to stop drinking milk or eating ice cream,-- and it sure aint hidden out here, it is in the open as though they are hetrosexuals.


I don't believe it's that bad in Indiana. INd. Is still bible belt
God fearing Republican country.

Rico
07-12-2008, 11:06 PM
we are in Indiana, bloomington where the kinsey institute is, of course the college out here to, it is like sanfransisco. i think i am going to stop drinking milk or eating ice cream,-- and it sure aint hidden out here, it is in the open as though they are hetrosexuals.

Indiana? I live close to Evansville. Prior to that I lived in the Terre Haute area. I was born in Gary. I always like it when I come across a fellow Hoosier. :)

Rico
07-12-2008, 11:07 PM
I don't believe it's that bad in Indiana. INd. Is still bible belt
God fearing Republican country.

With the exception of national elections, Indiana is predominantly democratic.

live4him
07-12-2008, 11:07 PM
I don't know about adulterers as a whole, but I have known some men who simply could not be faithful no matter how hard they try. I've heard that scientists have found a difference in the brain of homosexuals and those of heterosexuals. I think eventually they will find whatever it is that causes homosexuality. There may be a difference in the brains of people engaged in other types of deviant sexual behaviour.

the difference is they could be mental or have a loose marble, i dont know, but it is a bad behavior,just like the child molesters.the problem is, these men or woman need to control themselves or be delivered, it is a spirit, no matter what

revrandy
07-12-2008, 11:09 PM
I think it is both... concerning a learned behavior and a spiritual matter...

Aquila
07-12-2008, 11:09 PM
I believe that the issue is complex. I believe that it may be psychological. Maybe the person never had an appropriate father or mother figure and they're looking for the love they never received. Maybe it's part of our flesh's fallen nature (biological). Maybe it's spiritual. I do believe demons plague gay people: depression, fear, insecurity, etc....all these things leading them down the path seeking more and more gratification and acceptance...in the end it brings death.

Pray for those who struggle with this. Pray pray pray.

rrford
07-12-2008, 11:09 PM
I don't know about adulterers as a whole, but I have known some men who simply could not be faithful no matter how hard they try. I've heard that scientists have found a difference in the brain of homosexuals and those of heterosexuals. I think eventually they will find whatever it is that causes homosexuality. There may be a difference in the brains of people engaged in other types of deviant sexual behaviour.

Rico,

The danger in saying one is born homosexual is to actually say that God created, or pre-destined, some folks to be an abomination without choice. Sorry. That view will never align with scripture.

Aquila
07-12-2008, 11:11 PM
Also...I'm not so sure if it's "running rampant"...it's always been here. It's just more in the open now so it looks like it's breaking out everywhere. It was always there behind closed doors.

One thing about it being in the open...we can speak and minister to the need. If it's hidden, we can't shine light, prayer, love, and compassion upon the struggling sinner.

Aquila
07-12-2008, 11:14 PM
Rico,

The danger in saying one is born homosexual is to actually say that God created, or pre-destined, some folks to be an abomination without choice. Sorry. That view will never align with scripture.

That's only true if you believe God made us the way we are.

Man is a fallen creature. I believe sin has twisted us on every level: spiritual, psychological, and yes...even biological down to our very genetics. It's like any other genetic disorder...did God make people that way? No...God made man whole without sickness or genetic disorders. But man fell, now we are subject to death, sickness, and genetic disorders that cause our flesh to war against our spirits. That's why so many gays kill themselves....they don't want to be gay. Their spirits are at war with something in their flesh that they cannot control. They are captives, bound by sin, enslaved by their sinful flesh (biology).

Yes, I believe it may be biological or genetic...but no, I don't believe God made them that way. It's a symptom of the all pervading effects of sin on our nature, here for some...the biological nature.

I don't believe that all who call themselves "gay" chose it. I think for some it's their "flesh" (biology). And their only hope for total deliverance is a miraculous healing. Demanding they repent is only part of the problem. They need touched by the master, changed, made a new creature...all the way down to the DNA.

Death is biological, God didn't create men to die...but it is part of our physical nature because of sin in our members, it is a biological effect of sin on the whole race. There is no good thing in this flesh.

We demand they change themselves....they need a healer. A deliverer...someone who came to set the captive FREE. They need to repent of sin committed and pay for healing. And we need to surround them praying for that miraculous touch. Then and only then will they be really free.

Rico
07-12-2008, 11:16 PM
Rico,

The danger in saying one is born homosexual is to actually say that God created, or pre-destined, some folks to be an abomination without choice. Sorry. That view will never align with scripture.

Brother, I hear what you're saying. However, I believe science is eventually going to find whatever it is that causes homosexuality. Once that happens, Christians are going to be hard pressed to continue with the current line of thinking that it's just a choice someone makes. I believe for some homosexuals it can indeed be a choice they've made. There are others, however, who don't choose to be attracted to the same sex. There has to be some other reason than it's a choice they make. There are plenty of deviant behaviours people can be born with, other than homosexuality. Some believe that some murderers are pre-disposed to being killers because something in their brains doesn't function in the same way a normal brain functions. None of this changes the fact that murder is sin, or that homosexuality is an abomination in the sight of God. They're simple products of the Fall of man.

Rico
07-12-2008, 11:19 PM
That's only true if you believe God made us the way we are.

Man is a fallen creature. I believe sin has twisted us on every level: spiritual, psychological, and yes...even biological down to our very genetics. It's like any other genetic disorder...did God make people that way? No...God made man whole without sickness or genetic disorders. But man fell, now we are subject to death, sickness, and genetic disorders that cause our flesh to war against our spirits. That's why so many gays kill themselves....they don't want to be gay. Their spirits are at war with something in their flesh that they cannot control.

Yes, I believe it may be biological or genetic...but no, I don't believe God made them that way. It's the all pervading effects of sin on our nature, here for some...the biological nature.

I don't believe that all who call themselves "gay" chose it. I think for some it's their "flesh" (biology). And their only hope for total deliverance is a miraculous healing. Demanding they repent is only part of the problem. They need touched by the master, changed, made a new creature...all the way down to the DNA.

Aquila, I agree with this line of reasoning. It makes perfect sense. It explains why certain diseases are genetic too. Does God create someone to be a diabetic, or have heart problems, or end up with breast cancer? I don't think so, but sin has infected man to his very core, even his DNA.

rrford
07-12-2008, 11:23 PM
I will bow out of this converstaion with this post:

Very few things in scripture are listed as an abomination. While the sinful nature is inherent in us, with all of the resultant behaviours and effects, not one of those rises to the level of an abomination. Surely we understand a difference between what would call the normal results of a sinful nature and the abherrent results of giving oneself over to sin? The one comes without choice; the second is totally predicated upon choice.

Rico
07-12-2008, 11:25 PM
Why bow out? It's just getting started. See how ya are?!?!?! Hmph! :D

live4him
07-12-2008, 11:26 PM
well i do beleive that it is hard to think that it is genetic, it sounds as though it could be a chemical imbalance to. but i think some people are gay because they were either molested or raped and they cannot trust the opposite sex, but i see alot of woman who turn gay because they were molested and they do not trust men at all, they become scared of them, but yet they dress like men, and the men who are molested when they were younger become addicted to that type of lifestyle-----why? i do not know it is strange

stmatthew
07-12-2008, 11:26 PM
I believe that man (and woman) are born with the propensity to sin. Some give themselves to it more fully than others. But I also believe that our lives and the surrounding circumstances within our lives do shape us. Someone that has been sexually abused has a higher risk of abusing someone else. Thus we are often a product of our surroundings.


I also believe that some literally have a demonic spirit that causes them to entertain perversion and homosexuality. I know one particular case where a man who was a homosexual talked so high his voice resembled Micky Mouses voice. It was unnatural. A pastor and myself prayed with him at an alter, but he was unwilling to let the spirit go. You could almost see the spirit coming up in him, and then he would swallow it back down. I have never encountered something quite like this in my life. It was strange.

Aquila
07-12-2008, 11:27 PM
Aquila, I agree with this line of reasoning. It makes perfect sense. It explains why certain diseases are genetic too. Does God create someone to be a diabetic, or have heart problems, or end up with breast cancer? I don't think so, but sin has infected man to his very core, even his DNA.

Some don't see how deeply the principle of "sin" has twisted mankind from God's original design. When a gay person says,

"I was born this way! Ever since I was a child I felt this way. I can't help it."

They are really saying,

"I was born a sinner. Ever since I was a child I was a sinner. I can't help it."

There is no good thing in this twisted, rotten, stinking, evil flesh. Down to it's very DNA it's corrupt. Desperately wicked...that's why it must DIE. It's evil. The spirit inside is captive to it. And only the POWER of God can strengthen and save the spirit. Only the POWER of God can change a man or a woman...all the way down to their DNA.

When a gay person says, "I was born this way."

We need to say, "Amen, all men were born with sin friend. But Jesus can save your soul and set you free...but it's up to you to decide if you want to give Jesus a try. You may have been born this way...but he can heal you. After all, he loved you enough to die for you, even though you were born this way."

Rico
07-12-2008, 11:27 PM
I know what it is. RRFord is feeling that tug. He can feel the AFF suction power drawing him back into posting with us and he must resist it with all his might. The Borg is calling. :D

Aquila
07-12-2008, 11:32 PM
I will bow out of this converstaion with this post:

Very few things in scripture are listed as an abomination. While the sinful nature is inherent in us, with all of the resultant behaviours and effects, not one of those rises to the level of an abomination. Surely we understand a difference between what would call the normal results of a sinful nature and the abherrent results of giving oneself over to sin? The one comes without choice; the second is totally predicated upon choice.

I can agree to some degree. While a gay person may be born a sinner, with homosexual tendencies...they choose to act on those tendencies. We're born with our hormones and pheromones responding to the opposite gender...and we still have a choice to fornicate or not.

When a homosexual says they always had that inclination they're saying that they have never felt the same depth of physical attraction toward the opposite gender. They had always responded hormonally and physically toward the same gender. They say they were born that way. Well...we're all born with sinful inclinations tied up in the very DNA of this rotten, sinful, fallen flesh. They can be healed.

But if they've acted on those inclinations...they need to repent of the act.

Repentance will bring forgiveness for the acts performed...healing will deliver from the uncontrollable inclinations of their flesh. It's going to take a two fold deliverance.

Aquila
07-12-2008, 11:35 PM
well i do beleive that it is hard to think that it is genetic, it sounds as though it could be a chemical imbalance to. but i think some people are gay because they were either molested or raped and they cannot trust the opposite sex, but i see alot of woman who turn gay because they were molested and they do not trust men at all, they become scared of them, but yet they dress like men, and the men who are molested when they were younger become addicted to that type of lifestyle-----why? i do not know it is strange

I know, I've seen it too. Sometimes it's psychological. Many people can trace it to a moment of abuse...others have always struggled with it. That leads me to believe it can be the result of emotional trauma...or biological. Just like other mental illnesses and pesonality disorders. Sometimes people can go through a traumatic experience and their personality fragments into multiple personalities. Others struggle with a chemical imbalance that makes them shift between personalities given their "episode". We're very complex creatures, fearfully and wonderfully made....but sin has put virus in the program.

live4him
07-12-2008, 11:36 PM
I believe that man (and woman) are born with the propensity to sin. Some give themselves to it more fully than others. But I also believe that our lives and the surrounding circumstances within our lives do shape us. Someone that has been sexually abused has a higher risk of abusing someone else. Thus we are often a product of our surroundings.


I also believe that some literally have a demonic spirit that causes them to entertain perversion and homosexuality. I know one particular case where a man who was a homosexual talked so high his voice resembled Micky Mouses voice. It was unnatural. A pastor and myself prayed with him at an alter, but he was unwilling to let the spirit go. You could almost see the spirit coming up in him, and then he would swallow it back down. I have never encountered something quite like this in my life. It was strange.

i beleive that the reason why the spirit did not come out is because he did not want to give up that lifestyle, otherwise he could have been delivered

live4him
07-12-2008, 11:38 PM
I can agree to some degree. While a gay person may be born a sinner, with homosexual tendencies...they choose to act on those tendencies. We're born with our hormones and pheromones responding to the opposite gender...and we still have a choice to fornicate or not.

When a homosexual says they always had that inclination they're saying that they have never felt the same depth of physical attraction toward the opposite gender. They had always responded hormonally and physically toward the same gender. They say they were born that way. Well...we're all born with sinful inclinations tied up in the very DNA of this rotten, sinful, fallen flesh. They can be healed.

But if they've acted on those inclinations...they need to repent of the act.

Repentance will bring forgiveness for the acts performed...healing will deliver from the uncontrollable inclinations of their flesh. It's going to take a two fold deliverance.

very well said, i agree

Aquila
07-12-2008, 11:38 PM
I know what it is. RRFord is feeling that tug. He can feel the AFF suction power drawing him back into posting with us and he must resist it with all his might. The Borg is calling. :D

lol

I think some just listen to the talking points of the far Right. Those on the far right have nearly made it dogma that it's purely a choice. But as science discovers more and more how the homosexual brain chemistry reacts to pheromone and hormonal stimuli they are learning that in blind tests when exposed to same gender hormone, the brain becomes sexually awakened. Even if the gay person doesn't know if they are smelling male or female sweat.

On a scientific level it's fascinating. On a theological level it goes to show just how twisted this flesh is from the creator's original intention.

live4him
07-12-2008, 11:42 PM
I know, I've seen it too. Sometimes it's psychological. Many people can trace it to a moment of abuse...others have always struggled with it. That leads me to believe it can be the result of emotional trauma...or biological. Just like other mental illnesses and pesonality disorders. Sometimes people can go through a traumatic experience and their personality fragments into multiple personalities. Others struggle with a chemical imbalance that makes them shift between personalities given their "episode". We're very complex creatures, fearfully and wonderfully made....but sin has put virus in the program.

i do agree, i beleive it is a choice and to there choices there is always concequences to your actions and actions can lead to death, no matter what sin it is,

live4him
07-12-2008, 11:45 PM
lol

I think some just listen to the talking points of the far Right. Those on the far right have nearly made it dogma that it's purely a choice. But as science discovers more and more how the homosexual brain chemistry reacts to pheromone and hormonal stimuli they are learning that in blind tests when exposed to same gender hormone, the brain becomes sexually awakened. Even if the gay person doesn't know if they are smelling male or female sweat.

On a scientific level it's fascinating. On a theological level it goes to show just how twisted this flesh is from the creator's original intention.

if this is true this is unbelievable, and absouletly weird, the brain becomes sexually awakened, it kinda makes since

rrford
07-12-2008, 11:46 PM
lol

I think some just listen to the talking points of the far Right. Those on the far right have nearly made it dogma that it's purely a choice. But as science discovers more and more how the homosexual brain chemistry reacts to pheromone and hormonal stimuli they are learning that in blind tests when exposed to same gender hormone, the brain becomes sexually awakened. Even if the gay person doesn't know if they are smelling male or female sweat.

On a scientific level it's fascinating. On a theological level it goes to show just how twisted this flesh is from the creator's original intention.

Here is why I bow out of these conversations. You are blatantly ignoring scripture and postulating that science trumps the written Word. When we begin to justify an abomination as being without choice we do serious injury to scripture.

Aquila
07-12-2008, 11:47 PM
if this is true this is unbelievable, and absouletly weird, the brain becomes sexually awakened, it kinda makes since

Here's something interesting....

Department of Clinical Neuroscience, Karolinska University Hospital, 171 76 Stockholm, Sweden. ivanka.savic-berglund@neuro.ki.se

The testosterone derivative 4,16-androstadien-3-one (AND) and the estrogen-like steroid estra-1,3,5(10),16-tetraen-3-ol (EST) are candidate compounds for human pheromones. AND is detected primarily in male sweat, whereas EST has been found in female urine. In a previous positron emission tomography study, we found that smelling AND and EST activated regions covering sexually dimorphic nuclei of the anterior hypothalamus, and that this activation was differentiated with respect to sex and compound. In the present study, the pattern of activation induced by AND and EST was compared among homosexual men, heterosexual men, and heterosexual women. In contrast to heterosexual men, and in congruence with heterosexual women, homosexual men displayed hypothalamic activation in response to AND. Maximal activation was observed in the medial preoptic area/anterior hypothalamus, which, according to animal studies, is highly involved in sexual behavior. As opposed to putative pheromones, common odors were processed similarly in all three groups of subjects and engaged only the olfactory brain (amygdala, piriform, orbitofrontal, and insular cortex). These findings show that our brain reacts differently to the two putative pheromones compared with common odors, and suggest a link between sexual orientation and hypothalamic neuronal processes.

PMID: 15883379 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

PMCID: PMC1129091

live4him
07-12-2008, 11:48 PM
the old saying is "if you hang with the skunks you will smell like them", i do beleive that who you hang around with can be the problem and influence, because no matter the sin , it can jump from them to you, if ya let it

live4him
07-12-2008, 11:53 PM
Here's something interesting....

this is to much- wow. this is interesting, i will have to read it more than once so i can comprehend it-lol, i know smells have alot to do with memories to, it triggers something in the brain, very interesting.

Rico
07-12-2008, 11:55 PM
Here is why I bow out of these conversations. You are blatantly ignoring scripture and postulating that science trumps the written Word. When we begin to justify an abomination as being without choice we do serious injury to scripture.

Huh? What he's saying makes perfect sense scripturally. He isn't making excuses for homosexuality in any way shape or form, Brother.

Aquila
07-12-2008, 11:56 PM
Here is why I bow out of these conversations. You are blatantly ignoring scripture and postulating that science trumps the written Word. When we begin to justify an abomination as being without choice we do serious injury to scripture.

The action is still an abomination. The sinful condition may be rooted in their flesh. That's why sin of all types, including abominations are works of the flesh. It's in this nasty, sweaty, evil, vile, body of death we're walking around with.

I'm separating the act from the condition. In scientific studies my brain would react to female pheromone. Hey, that's cool right, I'm straight, you'd expect that. Guess what...if I choose to act on that attraction when with a woman who I'm not married to...that's a sin.

Same with gays. Their brains react to male hormone and pheromone. They're gay and many have always responded to same gender hormones and pheromones. Guess what...if they choose to act on that attraction when with someone of the same gender...that's an abomination.

It's not a matter of either or here. It's far more complex than that. The sinful inclination originates for some in the flesh, early in puberty when their hormones are kicking in to make massive biological changes. Ok, that's the flesh, desperately wicked and vile. Sin working in their member. In their flesh is no good thing. Now...they struggle with the attraction to the same gender. Do they stay faithful to God and pray for a healing? Hopefully. If they act on it they've committed an abomination. Then they need to repent of the abomination and get back where they can be healed.

And here's a heart breaking thing about this...they have to choose to love the Lord and remain faithful...even if he doesn't heal them. Yes, it would be a terribly lonely life. Yes, they will struggle with desires and thoughts we straight folks don't struggle with. But if they don't act on them, I firmly believe they will be saved though the "inclination" is there.

Straight people the same way. We are expected to remain faithful even if we don't ever marry. We will struggle with desires and thoughts gay people don't struggle with. But if we don't act on them, I firmly believe we will be saved though the inclination to have straight relations is there.

Rico
07-12-2008, 11:57 PM
Here's something interesting....


Not sure I totally understood that, but it seems like they are saying homosexuals react to male scents in the same way a heterosexual woman does.

Aquila
07-13-2008, 12:00 AM
Not sure I totally understood that, but it seems like they are saying homosexuals react to male scents in the same way a heterosexual woman does.

Bingo.

Rico
07-13-2008, 12:02 AM
Bingo.

Do you know where I could buy some of that stuff to spray on, so the wifey will find me even more irresistable than she does now? :D

Aquila
07-13-2008, 12:03 AM
Imagine the damage we've done to these folks with the hatred and vitriol we've delivered to them.

It's like we're doctors with the only cure on earth for what they have...and when we see them...we throw stones at them because they're not well.

We need to help them pray and repent of sins committed...and stand with them for their healing and deliverance. Some will struggle, relapse, fall. Will we be there to catch them...or do we drop them and kick them while they're down?

Do we, the doctors, stone those in a dying world to whom we've been sent to heal?

Aquila
07-13-2008, 12:04 AM
Do you know where I could buy some of that stuff to spray on, so the wifey will find me even more irresistable than she does now? :D

Look it up on the internet bro...I'm sure it's out there. lol

Ummmm....and keep the results to yourselves please. lol

live4him
07-13-2008, 12:04 AM
i think that we all struggle with something in our life, if we say Lord create in me a clean heart and a right spirit, we really have to do that every day, because i know some of my weaknesses i have to watch my thoughts everyday, because the devil knows what i struggle with and he will try and put it in front of me, now if i pick up the sin and do it or not is my choice, but i know sometimes i am tired of repenting over the same sin,thats why we have to pray daily so we do not go that route again

Rico
07-13-2008, 12:05 AM
Look it up on the internet bro...I'm sure it's out there. lol

Ummmm....and keep the results to yourselves please. lol


lol Ok. For now I have sprayed on the Jovan Musk. I hope it works. :lol

RandyWayne
07-13-2008, 12:06 AM
Rico,

The danger in saying one is born homosexual is to actually say that God created, or pre-destined, some folks to be an abomination without choice. Sorry. That view will never align with scripture.

I don't believe someone is born gay in absolute terms but there are certainly people who are more predisposed to it out of the womb. Identical twin studies have born this out repeatedly.

But again, I highly doubt that people are BORN 100% gay.

live4him
07-13-2008, 12:09 AM
Imagine the damage we've done to these folks with the hatred and vitriol we've delivered to them.

It's like we're doctors with the only cure on earth for what they have...and when we see them...we throw stones at them because they're not well.

We need to help them pray and repent of sins committed...and stand with them for their healing and deliverance. Some will struggle, relapse, fall. Will we be there to catch them...or do we drop them and kick them while they're down?

Do we, the doctors, stone those in a dying world to whom we've been sent to heal?

i know you are annointed from God, now do not get a big head, i am saying that you have a great point of view on what your saying, i sure do not want to kick them down at all.if there down we need to learn to pick them up and sometimes we have to carry them for a bit.

Aquila
07-13-2008, 12:11 AM
i think that we all struggle with something in our life, if we say Lord create in me a clean heart and a right spirit, we really have to do that every day, because i know some of my weaknesses i have to watch my thoughts everyday, because the devil knows what i struggle with and he will try and put it in front of me, now if i pick up the sin and do it or not is my choice, but i know sometimes i am tired of repenting over the same sin,thats why we have to pray daily so we do not go that route again

I look at sin differently than some. I see sin as a disease that has infected us all spiritually, emotionally, mentally, and yes...even biologically. Sin is a disease that has infected the entire human person. We come to God because we're sick. We allow him to perform the procedure we need by repenting of our sins, being water baptized in His name and allowing him to fill us with His Spirit. We then show up for church regularly for treatments and checkups. Sometimes it seems our disease is in full remission, just like at the moment of our baptism...and other times it seems to flare up and we begin to get sick again. We're afraid of what the doctor's going to tell us if we go back to the clinic next Sunday, so we feel tempted to stay away. But if we go in sometimes we have to tolerate a painful procedure to get the built up infection out and we go into remission again.

It's like having cancer. You live one day at a time. Some days are good. Some are bad. Sometimes the disease gets the best of us. Sometimes we have stretches of health with the wind in our hair and the sun shine on our shoulders.

We're all sick. We're all taking treatments. We all need each other because when this thing flares up we don't need a judge...we need a friend.

live4him
07-13-2008, 12:12 AM
I don't believe someone is born gay in absolute terms but there are certainly people who are more predisposed to it out of the womb. Identical twin studies have born this out repeatedly.

But again, I highly doubt that people are BORN 100% gay.

im sorry - can you explain it about identical twins, what are you saying, alot of twins are born to have that feeling

Aquila
07-13-2008, 12:13 AM
i know you are annointed from God, now do not get a big head, i am saying that you have a great point of view on what your saying, i sure do not want to kick them down at all.if there down we need to learn to pick them up and sometimes we have to carry them for a bit.

I'm just another brudder hoping that I'm doing something right down here.

Rico
07-13-2008, 12:15 AM
i know you are annointed from God, now do not get a big head, i am saying that you have a great point of view on what your saying, i sure do not want to kick them down at all.if there down we need to learn to pick them up and sometimes we have to carry them for a bit.


Did you hafta go and do that? We're never gonna get him to stop over his socialist health care plan now. Thanks a lot, L ! :D

Aquila
07-13-2008, 12:16 AM
Did you hafta go and do that? We're never gonna get him to stop over his socialist health care plan now. Thanks a lot, L ! :D

lol :D

Guilty as charged Rico...I just love people. I hate to see anyone suffer. You know me, I was a medic in the Army. I'm willing to face the flack to save the dying.

God bless ya bro.

Rico
07-13-2008, 12:18 AM
Guilty as charged Rico...I just love people. I hate to see anyone suffer. You know me, I was a medic in the Army. I'm willing to face the flack to save the dying.

God bless ya bro.

Brother, can you believe that Adino referred to me as Rico the Socialist today? I about fell over laughing!! :killinme I told him he had me confused with you. :D

live4him
07-13-2008, 12:18 AM
I look at sin differently than some. I see sin as a disease that has infected us all spiritually, emotionally, mentally, and yes...even biologically. Sin is a disease that has infected the entire human person. We come to God because we're sick. We allow him to perform the procedure we need by repenting of our sins, being water baptized in His name and allowing him to fill us with His Spirit. We then show up for church regularly for treatments and checkups. Sometimes it seems our disease is in full remission, just like at the moment of our baptism...and other times it seems to flare up and we begin to get sick again. We're afraid of what the doctor's going to tell us if we go back to the clinic next Sunday, so we feel tempted to stay away. But if we go in sometimes we have to tolerate a painful procedure to get the built up infection out and we go into remission again.

It's like having cancer. You live one day at a time. Some days are good. Some are bad. Sometimes the disease gets the best of us. Sometimes we have stretches of health with the wind in our hair and the sun shine on our shoulders.

We're all sick. We're all taking treatments. We all need each other because when this thing flares up we don't need a judge...we need a friend.

i wholeheartly agree- it is like cancer it eats you up all the time, sometimes medicine does not even work, only the spirit of God delivers
i want to write more at a time but i have a nose bleed so i am trying to write what i can, and when i can. but this is a good discussion, i have to say i have learned something tonight

Aquila
07-13-2008, 12:19 AM
Brother, can you believe that Adino referred to me as Rico the Socialist today? I about fell over laughing!! :killinme I told him he had me confused with you. :D

LOL

Hey...we're all just trying to do the best we can. Anyway...in all things, to God be the glory.

RandyWayne
07-13-2008, 12:20 AM
im sorry - can you explain it about identical twins, what are you saying, alot of twins are born to have that feeling

These are studies where you have identical twins who were separated at, or shortly after birth so as not to have any influence over each others lives. When a pair if identified, it becomes a gold mind to scientists doing genetic research.
They examine a ton of different things, but in these studies if ONE brother or sister was gay, there was a high likelyhood that the other one was as well.

Aquila
07-13-2008, 12:22 AM
i wholeheartly agree- it is like cancer it eats you up all the time, sometimes medicine does not even work, only the spirit of God delivers
i want to write more at a time but i have a nose bleed so i am trying to write what i can, and when i can. but this is a good discussion, i have to say i have learned something tonight

Father...touch my sister. I ask that you do the work of healing that needs to be done bringing peace that surpasses all understanding. In Jesus name.

Live4him, God bless and keep you. I'm getting real tired. We've got church tomorrow and I'm going to be a zombie. So I've got to head to bed. I pray everyone has a blessed evening.

God bless.

Rico
07-13-2008, 12:23 AM
These are studies where you have identical twins who were separated at, or shortly after birth so as not to have any influence over each others lives. When a pair if identified, it becomes a gold mind to scientists doing genetic research.
They examine a ton of different things, but in these studies if ONE brother or sister was gay, there was a high likelyhood that the other one was as well.

Uh oh! I wonder what the "it's purely a choice" crowd has to say about this.

live4him
07-13-2008, 12:23 AM
These are studies where you have identical twins who were separated at, or shortly after birth so as not to have any influence over each others lives. When a pair if identified, it becomes a gold mind to scientists doing genetic research.
They examine a ton of different things, but in these studies if ONE brother or sister was gay, there was a high likelyhood that the other one was as well.

i have a friend who has a brother that is gay and anyway she got married when she was young to a nice man, but she divorced him later years and is now gay herself, so are you saying no matter if they are twins at all, it could still happen, it runs in the family,

live4him
07-13-2008, 12:25 AM
Father...touch my sister. I ask that you do the work of healing that needs to be done bringing peace that surpasses all understanding. In Jesus name.

Live4him, God bless and keep you. I'm getting real tired. We've got church tomorrow and I'm going to be a zombie. So I've got to head to bed. I pray everyone has a blessed evening.

God bless.

thank you so much that was nice of you, may the good Lord bless you, have a great time at chuch

RandyWayne
07-13-2008, 12:29 AM
Uh oh! I wonder what the "it's purely a choice" crowd has to say about this.

We're just talking about a strong predisposition.

StMark
07-13-2008, 12:36 AM
DId any of you see the thread I started earlier today
where an apostolic church had an open public debate with
a Gay Pastor? I had never heard of that happening and
didn't really agree with it btw

live4him
07-13-2008, 12:38 AM
DId any of you see the thread I started earlier today
where an apostolic church had an open public debate with
a Gay Pastor? I had never heard of that happening and
didn't really agree with it btw

what did they really talk about

RandyWayne
07-13-2008, 12:39 AM
DId any of you see the thread I started earlier today
where an apostolic church had an open public debate with
a Gay Pastor? I had never heard of that happening and
didn't really agree with it btw

I don't know.... If your secure in your beliefs you should be willing to meet someone "anywhere, anytime" -and even does your own alter with water, just to make it a real contest! :)

StMark
07-13-2008, 12:39 AM
what did they really talk about



I posted the actual youtube clip with the live debate.
you can watch it

I'll bump up the thread hold on

Jermyn Davidson
07-13-2008, 12:46 AM
Rico,

The danger in saying one is born homosexual is to actually say that God created, or pre-destined, some folks to be an abomination without choice. Sorry. That view will never align with scripture.

doesn't the Bible say some vessels are created for honor and some for dishonor?

i did a research paper on this in college-- no gay genes. there can be emotional imbalances in the mother that could trigger homosexual thoughts in the child, in the right situation.

if it was strictly an outside environmental deal, then ALL the boys ever molested by catholic priests repeatedly would be gay.


we are all born predisposed to sin. all sinners are equally lost. all need Jesus.

not all will be saved, unfortunately.

Jermyn Davidson
07-13-2008, 12:58 AM
Here's something interesting....


well if you do anything enough times, you will subconsciously attach scents and stuff to whatever pleasure you are indulging in.

that study establishes the idea that homosexuality is a learned behavior.

learned behavior or not, science does back up the fact that homosexuals can change.

live4him
07-13-2008, 01:01 AM
well if you do anything enough times, you will subconsciously attach scents and stuff to whatever pleasure you are indulging in.

that study establishes the idea that homosexuality is a learned behavior.

learned behavior or not, science does back up the fact that homosexuals can change.

i do agree i think that some homos will not change, and it is a learned behavior and i know God is out deliverer

Jermyn Davidson
07-13-2008, 01:10 AM
i do agree i think that some homos will not change, and it is a learned behavior and i know God is out deliverer

they won't change because they won't want to.

it's the kindness of God that leads us to repentance.

so God just isn't kind enough to some homosexuals? most homosexuals?

live4him
07-13-2008, 01:17 AM
they won't change because they won't want to.

it's the kindness of God that leads us to repentance.

so God just isn't kind enough to some homosexuals? most homosexuals?

alot of them will not change because they like the lifestyles,

Jermyn Davidson
07-13-2008, 01:48 AM
alot of them will not change because they like the lifestyles,

yeah well i liked sin. sin was/is pleasurable, temporarily.

what makes u or i any different? how are we drawn to repentance, but not some or even most homosexuals?

George
07-13-2008, 02:15 AM
Where are you at ??? I'm in California & I have to admit
it is RAMPANT out here but when I go other parts of the
country not so much such as the south - maybe more hidden?
I don't know.

I read a report that the milk and dairy products have caused
a big increase in homosexuals

That right thar's funny!

Got milk? :ursofunny :evilglee

Adino
07-13-2008, 10:58 AM
Brother, can you believe that Adino referred to me as Rico the Socialist today? I about fell over laughing!! :killinme I told him he had me confused with you. :DMy bad. :rolleyes: Guess I figured anyone who defended a presidential candidate determined to govern this nation with failed Socialistic policies wouldn't mind being identified as a Socialist. ;) Who else, but a Socialist, would yearn for a Socialistic America?

Oh, I know! A radical Islamic Fascist like Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad!

Then again, I suppose there were Hitler supporters who hated being referred to as 'Nazis' as well. :hmmm

Whatever our ideological tendencies, I think we can all agree it is a good thing the imputed righteousness of Christ covers even our political shortcomings.

As Aquila said, "in all things, to God be the glory."

Aquila
07-13-2008, 11:43 AM
My bad. :rolleyes: Guess I figured anyone who defended a presidential candidate determined to govern this nation with failed Socialistic policies wouldn't mind being identified as a Socialist. ;) Who else, but a Socialist, would yearn for a Socialistic America?

Oh, I know! A radical Islamic Fascist like Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad!

Then again, I suppose there were Hitler supporters who hated being referred to as 'Nazis' as well. :hmmm

Whatever our ideological tendencies, I think we can all agree it is a good thing the imputed righteousness of Christ covers even our political shortcomings.

As Aquila said, "in all things, to God be the glory."

Look, my wife's family is Jewish and they are life long Democrats. My wife and I both are registered Democrats. To associate Democrats or those who believe they are better for our country at this time than Republicans with Nazis in any way is HIGHLY offensive to me and when I shared this with her she was livid. Ruth, my grandmother-in-law, still had the numbers on her arm. And guess what...she proudly voted Democrat.

It shows you have NO idea of the evil perpetrated by the Nazis. Tell me, have you ever spent an evening with a Jewish family and heard the stories first hand? I have. Frankly, you deserve a good :club if you know what I mean. This was HIGHLY OFFENSIVE. I think if anyone associates any red blooded American (be they Democrat or Republican) with Hitler or the Nazis, they should be instantly BANNED for a week.

The nerve of some people.

Aquila
07-13-2008, 11:46 AM
doesn't the Bible say some vessels are created for honor and some for dishonor?

i did a research paper on this in college-- no gay genes. there can be emotional imbalances in the mother that could trigger homosexual thoughts in the child, in the right situation.

if it was strictly an outside environmental deal, then ALL the boys ever molested by catholic priests repeatedly would be gay.


we are all born predisposed to sin. all sinners are equally lost. all need Jesus.

not all will be saved, unfortunately.

The scientific community is divided on the subject. Personally, I think for some it's an infirmity of the flesh. They need to repent of acts performed and seek GOD for a healing deliverance.

Aquila
07-13-2008, 11:53 AM
well if you do anything enough times, you will subconsciously attach scents and stuff to whatever pleasure you are indulging in.

that study establishes the idea that homosexuality is a learned behavior.

learned behavior or not, science does back up the fact that homosexuals can change.

I disagree. I know of gays who have never had gay sex. They just don't respond physiologically with the opposite gender.

Here's the issue...fear. It's become a dogma (like many other faulty beliefs of the church down through history) that being gay has NO biological component. It seems those who deny the possibility of a biological link fear that it somehow justifies the action. No...it doesn't. No more than being straight justifies fornication. It's just science proving that the Bible is correct...sinful tendencies are rooted in...the flesh.

Nahum
07-13-2008, 12:10 PM
Rico,

The danger in saying one is born homosexual is to actually say that God created, or pre-destined, some folks to be an abomination without choice. Sorry. That view will never align with scripture.

Homosex is a sin, no doubt.

The Bible is full of admonitions against the behavior.

However, I do believe some people are born with dispositions toward certain sins.

In no way am I excusing any sin, I am just pointing out the obvious.

Some are more inclined to alcohol, drug and nicotene addictions. Others would never be tempted by those substances, but may struggle with sexual temptations - including deviant behaviors.

OnTheFritz
07-13-2008, 01:00 PM
Imagine the damage we've done to these folks with the hatred and vitriol we've delivered to them.

It's like we're doctors with the only cure on earth for what they have...and when we see them...we throw stones at them because they're not well.

We need to help them pray and repent of sins committed...and stand with them for their healing and deliverance. Some will struggle, relapse, fall. Will we be there to catch them...or do we drop them and kick them while they're down?

Do we, the doctors, stone those in a dying world to whom we've been sent to heal?

Amen. Amen. Amen.

steve p
07-13-2008, 01:02 PM
Oh please...get over it. This has been discussed out to whazoo.

Blessings, Rhoni

Whazoo????????:aaa

mizpeh
07-13-2008, 01:30 PM
Rico,

The danger in saying one is born homosexual is to actually say that God created, or pre-destined, some folks to be an abomination without choice. Sorry. That view will never align with scripture.

I agree.

If we are created a certain way and we can't help but be an adulterer, or a homosexual because of the way we were created then it is not our choice and condemnation from God for that sin would be unjust. We could say to God, you made me a homosexual, I had no choice but to be a homosexual.

Likewise if the Bible said everyone with brown eyes is going to hell because it is a sin to have brown eyes. How just would that be? You can't help having brown eyes. You were born with brown eyes.

If we can tell when an earthly judge is being just in his decisions, then how much more will the judge of the whole earth be?

mizpeh
07-13-2008, 01:45 PM
Maybe this has been discussed but how do those who see homosexuality as inherent..something certain folks are born with.....in agreement with this passage?

Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient

It does not sound to me as though they were born with these vile affections but God gave them up to these sins which came from the lusts of their minds otherwise God would have had nothing to do with it as it would have been the way they were born and their natural tendency.

Jermyn Davidson
07-13-2008, 02:21 PM
I disagree. I know of gays who have never had gay sex. They just don't respond physiologically with the opposite gender.

Here's the issue...fear. It's become a dogma (like many other faulty beliefs of the church down through history) that being gay has NO biological component. It seems those who deny the possibility of a biological link fear that it somehow justifies the action. No...it doesn't. No more than being straight justifies fornication. It's just science proving that the Bible is correct...sinful tendencies are rooted in...the flesh.


If one has never had gay sex, I wouldn't call them gay. Someone ensnared in the "homosexual lifestyle" is doing more than just thinking about it. The lifestyle requires participation, IMHO.

I don't think the church is gripped with fear when it comes to homosexuals as much as it is gripped with ignorance.

Jermyn Davidson
07-13-2008, 02:21 PM
they won't change because they won't want to.

it's the kindness of God that leads us to repentance.

so God just isn't kind enough to some homosexuals? most homosexuals?

bump?

mizpeh
07-13-2008, 02:33 PM
Originally Posted by 1399
they won't change because they won't want to.

it's the kindness of God that leads us to repentance.

so God just isn't kind enough to some homosexuals? most homosexuals?God is kind.

It's His will that all men should be saved and come to repentance.

Why won't some change? They love darkness rather than light and will not come to the light that their deeds might be reproved. John 3:19-21

Timmy
07-13-2008, 03:11 PM
I disagree. I know of gays who have never had gay sex. They just don't respond physiologically with the opposite gender.

Here's the issue...fear. It's become a dogma (like many other faulty beliefs of the church down through history) that being gay has NO biological component. It seems those who deny the possibility of a biological link fear that it somehow justifies the action. No...it doesn't. No more than being straight justifies fornication. It's just science proving that the Bible is correct...sinful tendencies are rooted in...the flesh.

Do you think gay marriage should be allowed?

Praxeas
07-13-2008, 03:13 PM
Gay Marriage is an oxy-moron

Can it be that a homosexual is demoniacally possessed and that is what makes him "gay"? Yes I think so. Then again one does not need to be demon possessed in order to have a sin nature and do things contrary to the Law of God

live4him
07-13-2008, 03:28 PM
Do you think gay marriage should be allowed?

come on, no it should not be allowed, the bible says it is an abomination unto him, it is a woman and a man -thats it, no more, no men and men
no woman and woman, they cannot reprodce, it cannot be

Adino
07-13-2008, 04:08 PM
Look, my wife's family is Jewish and they are life long Democrats. My wife and I both are registered Democrats. To associate Democrats or those who believe they are better for our country at this time than Republicans with Nazis in any way is HIGHLY offensive to me and when I shared this with her she was livid. Ruth, my grandmother-in-law, still had the numbers on her arm. And guess what...she proudly voted Democrat.

It shows you have NO idea of the evil perpetrated by the Nazis. Tell me, have you ever spent an evening with a Jewish family and heard the stories first hand? I have. Frankly, you deserve a good :club if you know what I mean. This was HIGHLY OFFENSIVE. I think if anyone associates any red blooded American (be they Democrat or Republican) with Hitler or the Nazis, they should be instantly BANNED for a week.

The nerve of some people.Step back and take a deep breath, Bro. In through the nose and out of the mouth. In through the nose and out of the mouth. In through the nose and out of the mouth. There..... better now?

Many Jews of today are atheists as well, Bro. That many are Democrats only displays to me another flaw in judgment. Of course, that's only a humble opinion. :)

Are you denying that Hitler was a socialist? Hitler's National Socialism was racist at its core and I am very sorry to hear that your wife has had to live with the results of this monster's ideological tendencies. I pray God helps her daily. I guess the question would be why do those who have been so greatly affected by such ideology continue to follow leaders who promote the philosophies which helped engender such atrocity?

I have not personally sat down and discussed the holocaust with those who have gone through it, but I do find it interesting that just last month I sat down and YouTubed such interviews while doing a bit of research opposing the theory that the holocaust did not happen. Some nut was trying to make the case that the gas chambers simply did not exist as many have proposed.

Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is one of these knuckleheads who denies the holocaust ever took place. I think he is wrong. He would very much love the ideologies of socialism to be the guide of our foreign affairs so that his agenda will be much more easily brought into fruition. I do not want this to happen. I HIGHLY DOUBT (just had to use the caps) you or your wife want this to happen either.

Socialism has failed all around the world and has led to terrible things. Why bring it to America? Why put those in charge who are geared toward a Socialistic end? I just don't get it.

On a side note:

Do you know one of the reasons Hitler did not invade Switzerland? When the Germans, in discussion with Switzerland's leaders, told them they would come into the land and conquer the Swiss by force they (the Germans) were met with the following response: They were taken out to a large firing range filled with citizens of the country, told that every citizen had been issued a firearm, given free ammunition, and encouraged to practice every month at the government's expense. The Germans stressed that they would be coming with an army twice the size of the population. The Swiss leaders responded, "I suppose, then, we will all have to shoot twice."

Do you think Obama's America would be able to give a like response?

God bless Aquila and his wife, Priscilla (?).

Timmy
07-13-2008, 04:19 PM
come on, no it should not be allowed, the bible says it is an abomination unto him, it is a woman and a man -thats it, no more, no men and men
no woman and woman, they cannot reprodce, it cannot be

Seems unfair, then. Bible-following straights cannot commit fornication, but at least they have some hope of marrying and enjoying sex with God's blessing. Not so, gays. They are forced to remain virgins their entire lives, or capitulate to marriage to the opposite sex, someone to whom they have little or no attraction. Intimacy would be, presumably, as unnatural -- perhaps repugnant -- to them as gay sex would be to you or me. Such a marriage is unlikely to be very healthy.

There should be a special reward in Heaven for gays that remain pure all their lives.

Brad Murphy
07-13-2008, 04:34 PM
Now Timmy, you know it is all because of that choice that they made... you know the day they just decided to be attracted to the same sex? I am so thankful that I was paying attention in class the day we had to choose our orientation... if you accidentally checked B instead of A, you would be gay! Whew!

Timmy
07-13-2008, 04:58 PM
Now Timmy, you know it is all because of that choice that they made... you know the day they just decided to be attracted to the same sex? I am so thankful that I was paying attention in class the day we had to choose our orientation... if you accidentally checked B instead of A, you would be gay! Whew!

:lol

mizpeh
07-13-2008, 05:13 PM
Scientists will never find a gene for homosexuality because it goes against the natural order.

Rico
07-13-2008, 05:21 PM
well if you do anything enough times, you will subconsciously attach scents and stuff to whatever pleasure you are indulging in.

that study establishes the idea that homosexuality is a learned behavior.

learned behavior or not, science does back up the fact that homosexuals can change.

1399, have you got any articles you can point to on this? This is the first I've heard of any scientific proof of a homosexual being able to change his attraction.

Rico
07-13-2008, 05:25 PM
My bad. :rolleyes: Guess I figured anyone who defended a presidential candidate determined to govern this nation with failed Socialistic policies wouldn't mind being identified as a Socialist. ;) Who else, but a Socialist, would yearn for a Socialistic America?

Oh, I know! A radical Islamic Fascist like Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad!

Then again, I suppose there were Hitler supporters who hated being referred to as 'Nazis' as well. :hmmm

Whatever our ideological tendencies, I think we can all agree it is a good thing the imputed righteousness of Christ covers even our political shortcomings.

As Aquila said, "in all things, to God be the glory."

Adino, just so you'll know, I am not voting for anyone this time around. I am definitely against McCain, but not Probama. All the probama stuff got started cause it seemed like it would be fun. Fun is exactly what it's proven to be too. VOTE FOR OBAMA, AND HASTEN THE RETURN OF THE LORD is where it started 'cause of some posts about him elected would be the end of life as we know it, and the sky would fall, yada, yada. :D

Rico
07-13-2008, 05:29 PM
If one has never had gay sex, I wouldn't call them gay. Someone ensnared in the "homosexual lifestyle" is doing more than just thinking about it. The lifestyle requires participation, IMHO.

I don't think the church is gripped with fear when it comes to homosexuals as much as it is gripped with ignorance.

I don't know about that. The Bible says you can be guilty of adultery without actually committing the act. I don't see why it would be different with any other sexually related sins.

Rico
07-13-2008, 05:31 PM
Seems unfair, then. Bible-following straights cannot commit fornication, but at least they have some hope of marrying and enjoying sex with God's blessing. Not so, gays. They are forced to remain virgins their entire lives, or capitulate to marriage to the opposite sex, someone to whom they have little or no attraction. Intimacy would be, presumably, as unnatural -- perhaps repugnant -- to them as gay sex would be to you or me. Such a marriage is unlikely to be very healthy.

There should be a special reward in Heaven for gays that remain pure all their lives.

U mean like a homosexual eunic?

Rico
07-13-2008, 05:34 PM
Scientists will never find a gene for homosexuality because it goes against the natural order.

They haven't found the gene, but there is evidence that the brains of homosexual men are more like the brains of heterosexual women. So, it may turn out to be a brain development issue.

Adino
07-13-2008, 05:43 PM
Adino, just so you'll know, I am not voting for anyone this time around. I am definitely against McCain, but not Probama. All the probama stuff got started cause it seemed like it would be fun. Fun is exactly what it's proven to be too. VOTE FOR OBAMA, AND HASTEN THE RETURN OF THE LORD is where it started 'cause of some posts about him elected would be the end of life as we know it, and the sky would fall, yada, yada. :DUnderstood, Bro. I enjoy pulling chains and pushing buttons as well.

Just curious, would you vote for McCain if he chose a running mate much more palatable to your tastes? I will admit that his choice of running mate could very well influence my vote. You can take this to a private message if you like since this is a bit off topic.

God bless, Bro.

Adino
07-13-2008, 05:46 PM
They haven't found the gene, but there is evidence that the brains of homosexual men are more like the brains of heterosexual women. So, it may turn out to be a brain development issue.My understanding is that you're right on this, Rico. The closest they can come is a genetical 'tendency' which is like saying all who are genetically tall tend to play basketball in high school. It again, comes down to a matter of choice.

Rico
07-13-2008, 05:57 PM
Understood, Bro. I enjoy pulling chains and pushing buttons as well.

Just curious, would you vote for McCain if he chose a running mate much more palatable to your tastes? I will admit that his choice of running mate could very well influence my vote. You can take this to a private message if you like since this is a bit off topic.

God bless, Bro.

Brother, let me put it this way. I voted for Bush both times around. I feel that his true colors have shone through in his second term. I feel as if we were lied to about Iraq, and it's time for our troops to come home. I also have come to believe that President Bush has done more to take away American's freedoms than any other President in our history. The last thing I want is another four, possibly eight, years with another Republican in office. They've done nothing to stem the tide of homosexual rights or any of the other moral issues Christians typically vote for Republicans because of. While I know McCain isn't exactly like Bush, his positions on issues like the war are too much like Bush's for me to support him. I also believe that McCain is simply too old to handle the kind of stress the Presidency puts on a man. His time for having won the office is long past, and I can not believe he's the best the Republicans could come up with this go around.

Carpenter
07-13-2008, 06:41 PM
Homosexuality is a sexual dysfunction plain and simple. There are genetic traits however in folks that you just look at them interact with them and you have to ask, was this a product of being raised by a woman never having known a father in the home, sexual abuse, etc.

You would never say that necropheilia or beastiality or pedophillia were genetically ordered. They are sexual dysfunctions.

I believe pornography on the net is the leading cause for homosexuality to run like wildfire, but then again I am only agreeing with the Charasmatic preacher I heard this from.

RevDWW
07-13-2008, 07:03 PM
Root cause of all sinful lifestyles:

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Everyone has a choice, but not everyone seems to realize that or makes the correct ones.

mizpeh
07-13-2008, 07:05 PM
I worked with a guy years ago who was straight and in his early 20's. He became a homosexual and his voice and mannerisms changed over time. He became more effeminate. It took me back as I watched the change.

If he was born that way why the sudden change?

Rico
07-13-2008, 07:07 PM
I worked with a guy years ago who was straight and in his early 20's. He became a homosexual and his voice and mannerisms changed over time. He became more effeminate. It took me back as I watched the change.

If he was born that way why the sudden change?

My guess is for this fella it was a choice he made. How about those who are naturally effeminate?

Jermyn Davidson
07-13-2008, 07:23 PM
They haven't found the gene, but there is evidence that the brains of homosexual men are more like the brains of heterosexual women. So, it may turn out to be a brain development issue.

yeah but that study was done on dead brains. it is very likely that the differences in a gay brain are there as a result of the actions of that gay man-- but they are still not 100% sure on it.

Also, many gay guys have other vices, like drugs, that also alter the brain. Some of the subjects in the study cited above, it was not clear that they had never done drugs.

Generally, gay guys have more sex, more often, with more people. It is scientifically proven that a persons sexual habits can bring pronounced changes to the brain.

Oh and then there are the HIV drugs that people take and the sum affects of those on any person have not been completely the same, every time....

So many unknowns.

Jermyn Davidson
07-13-2008, 07:33 PM
Seems unfair, then. Bible-following straights cannot commit fornication, but at least they have some hope of marrying and enjoying sex with God's blessing. Not so, gays. They are forced to remain virgins their entire lives, or capitulate to marriage to the opposite sex, someone to whom they have little or no attraction. Intimacy would be, presumably, as unnatural -- perhaps repugnant -- to them as gay sex would be to you or me. Such a marriage is unlikely to be very healthy.

There should be a special reward in Heaven for gays that remain pure all their lives.

Poor gays. satan has taken the MINDS of gay men and women and has poisoned them, in an effort to rob them of a great gift and to ultimately destroy them.

Most gay guys I have spoken with would rather "be straight" but they FEEL like that is an impossibility.

THE DEVIL IS A LIAR!

The Bible says, "Resist the devil and he will flee from you."

Rico
07-13-2008, 07:41 PM
1399, lemme ask you a question. Do you choose to be attracted to the women you are attracted to? I know you choose whether to act on that attraction, but do you choose to be attracted to anyone? My guess is you don't. This is where the "it's a choice" argument falls flat. Gays don't choose to be attracted to men anymore than you choose to be attracted to women. Just like your attraction to women is natural for you, their attraction to the same sex occurs naturally for them.

Jermyn Davidson
07-13-2008, 07:44 PM
Now Timmy, you know it is all because of that choice that they made... you know the day they just decided to be attracted to the same sex? I am so thankful that I was paying attention in class the day we had to choose our orientation... if you accidentally checked B instead of A, you would be gay! Whew!

There is a choice that is made.

Do you act on every thought or impulse that you have?

Aren't there thoughts and impulses that you have has and when you started to follow them, for some reason you backed down, turned away?

Just because one has the thoughts does not mean you have to dwell on those thoughts, rehearse those thoughts or even act on those thoughts.

There is a choice that is not made, by MANY gay Americans, by many sinners around the world: that is the choice to give God a chance to do the miraculous in their life.

Can God deliver the gay man? Can God take a gay man and make him into a straight Pastor? Can God take a gay man's wounded and painful past and give him an incredible inheritance?

Can God make a gay man straight enough to marry one of our female relatives?

YES GOD CAN!

So if they choose to be lost, it's their choice. I do wish more would come to repentance. I really, really do. It's sad to go through hell all one's life on earth and then die and go to hell for an eternity.

Adino
07-13-2008, 07:57 PM
Brother, let me put it this way. I voted for Bush both times around. I feel that his true colors have shone through in his second term. I feel as if we were lied to about Iraq, and it's time for our troops to come home. I also have come to believe that President Bush has done more to take away American's freedoms than any other President in our history. The last thing I want is another four, possibly eight, years with another Republican in office. They've done nothing to stem the tide of homosexual rights or any of the other moral issues Christians typically vote for Republicans because of. While I know McCain isn't exactly like Bush, his positions on issues like the war are too much like Bush's for me to support him. I also believe that McCain is simply too old to handle the kind of stress the Presidency puts on a man. His time for having won the office is long past, and I can not believe he's the best the Republicans could come up with this go around.Do you feel the accomplishments listed on the following issues are bad?

1. Winning the War on Terror (http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/achievement/chap1.html) - ( http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/achievement/chap1.html )

2. Promoting Peace and Democracy - and Acts of Mercy (http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/achievement/chap3.html) - ( http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/achievement/chap3.html )

3. Economic Growth and Job Creation (http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/achievement/chap5.html) - ( http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/achievement/chap5.html )

I'd wager that if these accomplishments would have taken place under a Democrat presidency the president would have been lauded as one of the greatest men to ever have held the position.

I agree with you that Bush should have been more conservative on some of his social issues, but let's not throw out the Bush baby with the bath water. If another eight years of accomplishments like the aforementioned is all we have to look forward to by not voting, as you said, "Probama" then I'd say we'll, generally, be heading in the right direction. (pun absolutely intended ;) )

God bless, Bro.

Timmy
07-13-2008, 07:59 PM
There is a choice that is made.

Do you act on every thought or impulse that you have?

Aren't there thoughts and impulses that you have has and when you started to follow them, for some reason you backed down, turned away?

Just because one has the thoughts does not mean you have to dwell on those thoughts, rehearse those thoughts or even act on those thoughts.

There is a choice that is not made, by MANY gay Americans, by many sinners around the world: that is the choice to give God a chance to do the miraculous in their life.

Can God deliver the gay man? Can God take a gay man and make him into a straight Pastor? Can God take a gay man's wounded and painful past and give him an incredible inheritance?

Can God make a gay man straight enough to marry one of our female relatives?

YES GOD CAN!

So if they choose to be lost, it's their choice. I do wish more would come to repentance. I really, really do. It's sad to go through hell all one's life on earth and then die and go to hell for an eternity.

Say that to a gay man, face to face, who has begged God to deliver him, to take away the desire for men and make him "normal". Say that to the man who never had any attraction to women since birth. The man who has been told that his desires are evil. The man full of despair, who has thought of killing himself every day of his life (at least since he found out how evil he was). He feels abnormal, dirty, vile. Worthless.

Tell him it's his own choice to feel these evil desires.

After he's dead, tell his family he's in hell now, in eternal torment, because God didn't choose him for "deliverance" or "healing".

mizpeh
07-13-2008, 08:14 PM
Say that to a gay man, face to face, who has begged God to deliver him, to take away the desire for men and make him "normal". Say that to the man who never had any attraction to women since birth. The man who has been told that his desires are evil. The man full of despair, who has thought of killing himself every day of his life (at least since he found out how evil he was). He feels abnormal, dirty, vile. Worthless.

Tell him it's his own choice to feel these evil desires.

After he's dead, tell his family he's in hell now, in eternal torment, because God didn't choose him for "deliverance" or "healing".

"never had any attraction to women since birth"? LOL, When do you believe sexual attractions begin?

Timmy
07-13-2008, 08:18 PM
"never had any attraction to women since birth"? LOL, When do you believe sexual attractions begin?

Didn't say it started then. I said attraction to the opposite sex never happened.

Timmy
07-13-2008, 08:33 PM
"never had any attraction to women since birth"? LOL, When do you believe sexual attractions begin?

I have an example for you of heterosexuality beginning very early. :)

I was sitting with our friends' little boy, about 4 years old I think. I was playing a Lynx hand-held game. "California Games", with skateboarding, surfing, etc. Well, he was watching as a girl in a bikini roller skated across the opening screen. The little guy said "Ohhh, baby!" :toofunny

mizpeh
07-13-2008, 08:35 PM
I have an example for you of heterosexuality beginning very early. :)

I was sitting with our friends' little boy, about 4 years old I think. I was playing a Lynx hand-held game. "California Games", with skateboarding, surfing, etc. Well, he was watching as a girl in a bikini roller skated across the opening screen. The little guy said "Ohhh, baby!" :toofunny...learned behavior?

Timmy
07-13-2008, 08:38 PM
...learned behavior?

Dunno, could be. But who teaches gays their "behavior"? There isn't always a gay role model, or a bad relationship with father or mother, or a molesting, or whatever. Sometimes it just happens.

mizpeh
07-13-2008, 08:42 PM
Dunno, could be. But who teaches gays their "behavior"? There isn't always a gay role model, or a bad relationship with father or mother, or a molesting, or whatever. Sometimes it just happens.the devil trying to destroy God's natural order?

Jermyn Davidson
07-13-2008, 08:49 PM
http://www.drthrockmorton.com/article.asp?id=1

when u guys have the time, skim through this.

Timmy
07-13-2008, 08:49 PM
the devil trying to destroy God's natural order?

I doubt it.

mizpeh
07-13-2008, 08:53 PM
I doubt it.

He's called the "tempter" and tries to get folks to sin, ie; eve in the garden.

Timmy
07-13-2008, 08:55 PM
He's called the "tempter" and tries to get folks to sin, ie; eve in the garden.

So I've heard.

live4him
07-13-2008, 09:03 PM
I worked with a guy years ago who was straight and in his early 20's. He became a homosexual and his voice and mannerisms changed over time. He became more effeminate. It took me back as I watched the change.

If he was born that way why the sudden change?

the sudden change is that he came possessed of the spirit of homosexuality, thats the key.

Adino
07-13-2008, 09:07 PM
God bless you all. It's been fun. Thanks for the discussion on this and other threads. Vacation is over. Back to work now.

Continue to promote the wonderful salvation of grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone.

To God be the glory.

live4him
07-13-2008, 09:09 PM
...learned behavior?

it is a learned behavior, i agree

live4him
07-13-2008, 09:13 PM
let me ask a question, what happens when a child is born with both sex organs. does anyone pretend to be God and choose what he or she is,, that has got to be the worst thing to be born with,

RevDWW
07-13-2008, 09:55 PM
Root cause of all sinful lifestyles:


Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.
Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.
Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Everyone has a choice, but not everyone seems to realize that or makes the correct ones.

So what portion of Romans chapter 1 is inaccurate or incorrect in it's portrayal of the sinfulness of the homosexual lifestyle?

Timmy
07-13-2008, 10:38 PM
So what portion of Romans chapter 1 is inaccurate or incorrect in it's portrayal of the sinfulness of the homosexual lifestyle?

The part that says it's sin.

RevDWW
07-13-2008, 11:15 PM
The part that says it's sin.
Can we take this as a "No" vote for divine inspiration of the first chapter, the whole book of Romans, or the Bible in general?

Jermyn Davidson
07-14-2008, 02:09 AM
The part that says it's sin.

That's ludicrous!

Sin is sin. God has too much mercy for someone to die and go to hell-- but people do and will do, because of their choices.

Don't you realize that there is more than enough grace to cover ALL of our sins?

Bro Nomo the ex-homo can come to the Lord, sincerely repent of his sins, fall, and repent-- constantly struggling, attempting to move forward with in his walk with the Lord, fasting, praying and still struggling-- as he lives, he is clothed with the righteousness of God. When he dies, he will spend eternity with his Savior.

He may have to "ride the altar to Glory", but as long as He doesn't let go of Jesus, He won't let go of Him.

The LORD knows the heart of a sin-struggler. So before someone kicks him/her out of the boat after the 6th fall, be careful to do all you can to restore the brother and consider yourself.

How long does the mercy of the Lord lasts? How many times can you or I sin in one day before the Lord says, "Ok you've run out of your allotment of grace today"?


Sinners don't try, don't feel bad about their sin, revel in their debauchery and upon death, will spend eternity suffering.

Sinners take what the Bible says is sin, and call it preference, fun, ok, not sinful and even right! Their blind, deceived, cursed and dying-- all the while there is a Savior with hands stretched out calling them repentance, salvation, and relationship.

Sin is sin. But there is a God who has grace and that grace is GREATER than our sin.

There is hope for homosexual, rapist, necrophiliac, cannibal, the pedophile-- whosoever will, let them come! And when they come to the Lord, He will change them, oh yes there will be a change-- even if it

Praxeas
07-14-2008, 03:19 AM
Seems unfair, then. Bible-following straights cannot commit fornication, but at least they have some hope of marrying and enjoying sex with God's blessing. Not so, gays. They are forced to remain virgins their entire lives, or capitulate to marriage to the opposite sex, someone to whom they have little or no attraction. Intimacy would be, presumably, as unnatural -- perhaps repugnant -- to them as gay sex would be to you or me. Such a marriage is unlikely to be very healthy.

There should be a special reward in Heaven for gays that remain pure all their lives.
As a straight I could NEVER EVER engage in sex with another guy. Yet so called gay men get married all the time to females and have children.

Pastor Keith
07-14-2008, 04:03 AM
I would probably strongly disagree with that premise without further clarification. At face value you seem to be saying "some are born that way."

I did see a good study that showed a tendency, not a set issue, but that some males have a tendency to be more effimenate or lean towards girlie behavior based on estrogen exposure in the womb.

The case example that I saw took two twins, under the age 10, genetics they are the same, same environment etc. One acted like a typical 10 year old male, the other very girly, effeminate, the only thing that they could tell you that seemed to be the difference was the hypothesis that the other boy had higher exposure to estrogen while his brother didn't.

With that in mind I still think behavior is paramount and feelings, tendencies don't make the man.

Aquila
07-16-2008, 04:07 PM
I agree.

If we are created a certain way and we can't help but be an adulterer, or a homosexual because of the way we were created then it is not our choice and condemnation from God for that sin would be unjust. We could say to God, you made me a homosexual, I had no choice but to be a homosexual.

Likewise if the Bible said everyone with brown eyes is going to hell because it is a sin to have brown eyes. How just would that be? You can't help having brown eyes. You were born with brown eyes.

If we can tell when an earthly judge is being just in his decisions, then how much more will the judge of the whole earth be?

We are altogether concieved in sin and shapen in iniquity. This flesh is vile. The reality is that no man is born righteous, all men are born with a disposition toward sin.

Jack Shephard
07-16-2008, 04:17 PM
We are altogether concieved in sin and shapen in iniquity. This flesh is vile. The reality is that no man is born righteous, all men are born with a disposition toward sin.

Good point this is why I contend people can be born that way. Not that people are literally born gay, but all are conceived in sin and born into sin. It is all sin, but somehow it is view as a 'worse' sin to be gay or something. I believe that a person must make a choice to follow or not follow that lifestyle. To some is seems so natural and that is, IMO, cause to use humans sin is natural. Sin is our nature until we change our nature and become spiritually lead.

Aquila
07-16-2008, 05:08 PM
Good point this is why I contend people can be born that way. Not that people are literally born gay, but all are conceived in sin and born into sin. It is all sin, but somehow it is view as a 'worse' sin to be gay or something. I believe that a person must make a choice to follow or not follow that lifestyle. To some is seems so natural and that is, IMO, cause to use humans sin is natural. Sin is our nature until we change our nature and become spiritually lead.

Inclinations toward behavior and the choice to do those things are very different. I'm a straight male...I like women. I have chosen to flee fornication and be faithful to my wife. lol

The inclination of the natural man is there...but I choose not to act on it.

I think it's similar with gays. They have an inclination to act on their attraction to the same gender...but they choose to act or not to act on it.

Aquila
07-16-2008, 05:10 PM
As a straight I could NEVER EVER engage in sex with another guy. Yet so called gay men get married all the time to females and have children.

I've talked to a few gay men who married. Most of the time they weren't thinking about their wives when with their wives.

Aquila
07-16-2008, 05:13 PM
If one has never had gay sex, I wouldn't call them gay. Someone ensnared in the "homosexual lifestyle" is doing more than just thinking about it. The lifestyle requires participation, IMHO.

I don't think the church is gripped with fear when it comes to homosexuals as much as it is gripped with ignorance.

Good points.

Rico
07-16-2008, 05:14 PM
Some gay men have a strong paternal instinct and feel the need to be a father. I wonder how that can fit in with their same sex attraction. It seems almost like a contradiction.

Aquila
07-16-2008, 05:17 PM
Do you think gay marriage should be allowed?

Absolutely not in the Apostolic church. In a free and civil society however, it's bound to happen. I see it as being inevitable.

Praise God that this world is not our home.

Aquila
07-16-2008, 05:28 PM
Step back and take a deep breath, Bro. In through the nose and out of the mouth. In through the nose and out of the mouth. In through the nose and out of the mouth. There..... better now?

Many Jews of today are atheists as well, Bro. That many are Democrats only displays to me another flaw in judgment. Of course, that's only a humble opinion. :)

Are you denying that Hitler was a socialist? Hitler's National Socialism was racist at its core and I am very sorry to hear that your wife has had to live with the results of this monster's ideological tendencies. I pray God helps her daily. I guess the question would be why do those who have been so greatly affected by such ideology continue to follow leaders who promote the philosophies which helped engender such atrocity?

I have not personally sat down and discussed the holocaust with those who have gone through it, but I do find it interesting that just last month I sat down and YouTubed such interviews while doing a bit of research opposing the theory that the holocaust did not happen. Some nut was trying to make the case that the gas chambers simply did not exist as many have proposed.

Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is one of these knuckleheads who denies the holocaust ever took place. I think he is wrong. He would very much love the ideologies of socialism to be the guide of our foreign affairs so that his agenda will be much more easily brought into fruition. I do not want this to happen. I HIGHLY DOUBT (just had to use the caps) you or your wife want this to happen either.

Socialism has failed all around the world and has led to terrible things. Why bring it to America? Why put those in charge who are geared toward a Socialistic end? I just don't get it.

On a side note:

Do you know one of the reasons Hitler did not invade Switzerland? When the Germans, in discussion with Switzerland's leaders, told them they would come into the land and conquer the Swiss by force they (the Germans) were met with the following response: They were taken out to a large firing range filled with citizens of the country, told that every citizen had been issued a firearm, given free ammunition, and encouraged to practice every month at the government's expense. The Germans stressed that they would be coming with an army twice the size of the population. The Swiss leaders responded, "I suppose, then, we will all have to shoot twice."

Do you think Obama's America would be able to give a like response?

God bless Aquila and his wife, Priscilla (?).

You're still equating fellow Americans with Hitler and Nazis. Be it know that Britain is socialist as is Canada and Israel. Fascist socialism is strongly denounced by most true socialists as being a perversion of their political ideals.

Obama's America? This is a fundamental flaw in your reasoning. You are engaged in king worship, as though America is a dictatorship. This isn't Clinton's America, Bush's America, Obama's America, or McCain's America. While Bush has nearly run a dictatorship I highly doubt either Obama or McCain will. Both will have multitudes of advisers and counsel, they will also be briefed by the NSA on highly classified actions that must be taken to ensure our nation's survival. Those with clearance and a knowledge of these things in Congressional committees will hold any President accountable, especially after Bush. We need to get away from this king worship we have under Bush. We have to realize this isn't Obama's America or McCain's America...this is our America. Always has been...and always will be.

And for the record...yes...I believe Obama is perfectly willing and capable of engaging the enemy. Obama has repeatedly said he would hand over authority to the Iraqi provisional government and perform a staged withdraw from Iraq, redeploying troops to the REAL battlefield...Afghanistan. Guess what...within the past two weeks the Iraqi provisional government has taken political action to speed American withdraw and military leaders on the ground in Afghanistan are stating that they need more troops and equipment on the ground. ....Exactly what Obama has been saying should be done for months.

Aquila
07-16-2008, 05:37 PM
Break down and examination of Romans 1....

Paul was writing to the church in Rome. These Roman Christians were well acquainted with the paganistic practices of excess and debauchery. Paul here addresses this....the decent into paganism...

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
Rom 1:18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
Rom 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,
Rom 1:23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

Here Paul explains mankind's decent into paganism and idolatry as a result of rejecting divine truth about the creator.

Rom 1:24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:
Rom 1:25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.


Here Paul delves deeper into pagan perversion and how they began to practice perversion as part of their worship and lifestyle.

Rom 1:26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:
Rom 1:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

Here Paul speaks of how pagan men and women abandoned the natural use of one another to fulfill their lusts.

Rom 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;
Rom 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
Rom 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
Rom 1:31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Here Paul continues describing the decent into sinful, vile, wicked, pagan living.

This describes more than just homosexuals...this describes the decent of all of mankind into vile pagan practices and sinful vices.