PDA

View Full Version : Do You Believe in Human Dignity?


Nahum
07-13-2008, 11:37 PM
Human dignity refers to a state of righteousness, integrity, or virtue in human beings. The term dignity is defined as "the state of being worthy of honour or respect."

Do you believe in the concept of human dignity?

Sister Alvear
07-13-2008, 11:41 PM
some people are worthy of double honor...

RevDWW
07-13-2008, 11:42 PM
Human dignity refers to a state of righteousness, integrity, or virtue in human beings. The term dignity is defined as "the state of being worthy of honour or respect."

Do you believe in the concept of human dignity?

Sure.

Respectfully,
RevDWW

Nahum
07-13-2008, 11:44 PM
Well, the reason I ask is because of some of the posts I have viewed of late that seem to indicate that there are certain individuals and groups who are not worthy of basic human dignity.

RevDWW
07-13-2008, 11:46 PM
Well, the reason I ask is because of some of the posts I have viewed of late that seem to indicate that there are certain individuals and groups who are not worthy of basic human dignity.

Come on, name names, quote post, gives us the evidence of your inhumanity.

Nahum
07-13-2008, 11:48 PM
The homosexual thread.

The ongoing con vs. lib dispute.

Need I go on?

It amazes me that some posters have more love for their keyboard, pets and ideology than they do their fellow man.

Sister Alvear
07-13-2008, 11:49 PM
I try to be respectful...even though I might not agree...

RevDWW
07-13-2008, 11:55 PM
The homosexual thread.

The ongoing con vs. lib dispute.

Need I go on?

It amazes me that some posters have more love for their keyboard, pets and ideology than they do their fellow man.

All to often folks hate sinners instead of hating the sin. And many are "Christians" in name only, cause no one could tell they are Jesus' disciples by the love the show.

rrford
07-13-2008, 11:56 PM
The homosexual thread.

The ongoing con vs. lib dispute.

Need I go on?

It amazes me that some posters have more love for their keyboard, pets and ideology than they do their fellow man.

I bowed out of that thread. :whistle

RandyWayne
07-14-2008, 12:00 AM
some people are worthy of double honor...

Especially the ones who claim they are do it! LOL

Nahum
07-14-2008, 12:04 AM
I'm not trying to be judgemental, though some will see it as such.

I am just amazed at the lengths we will go to in an endeavor to cruelly crush others with our words.

We fail to realize we are all victims of the human condition; All flawed, all failures, all miserable wretches. We are in this together.

I have lived long enough to realize every person on this earth has some sort of sin disease to conquer. What good does it do me to build walls of disrespect, hatred and judgement between me and those whose sins I am revolted by?

Hoovie
07-14-2008, 12:29 AM
I'm not trying to be judgemental, though some will see it as such.

I am just amazed at the lengths we will go to in an endeavor to cruelly crush others with our words.

We fail to realize we are all victims of the human condition; All flawed, all failures, all miserable wretches. We are in this together.

I have lived long enough to realize every person on this earth has some sort of sin disease to conquer. What good does it do me to build walls of disrespect, hatred and judgement between me and those whose sins I am revolted by?

PP, I agree with you.

If my any of my posts don't reflect that I am truely sorry.

I am aware that I carry joking a bit too far at times...

BrotherEastman
07-14-2008, 07:00 AM
I'm not trying to be judgemental, though some will see it as such.

I am just amazed at the lengths we will go to in an endeavor to cruelly crush others with our words.

We fail to realize we are all victims of the human condition; All flawed, all failures, all miserable wretches. We are in this together.

I have lived long enough to realize every person on this earth has some sort of sin disease to conquer. What good does it do me to build walls of disrespect, hatred and judgement between me and those whose sins I am revolted by?
PP, I honour you sir. I almost called you yesturday because of the blasts you seem to be getting from posters. I was gonna let you know I appreciate your posts even if you are a moderate. LOL!:friend

BrotherEastman
07-14-2008, 07:01 AM
I'm not trying to be judgemental, though some will see it as such.

I am just amazed at the lengths we will go to in an endeavor to cruelly crush others with our words.

We fail to realize we are all victims of the human condition; All flawed, all failures, all miserable wretches. We are in this together.

I have lived long enough to realize every person on this earth has some sort of sin disease to conquer. What good does it do me to build walls of disrespect, hatred and judgement between me and those whose sins I am revolted by?
Yer a good man even if you have those flaws. :O)

Nahum
07-16-2008, 01:16 PM
Human dignity refers to a state of righteousness, integrity, or virtue in human beings. The term dignity is defined as "the state of being worthy of honour or respect."

Do you believe in the concept of human dignity?

Well, the reason I ask is because of some of the posts I have viewed of late that seem to indicate that there are certain individuals and groups who are not worthy of basic human dignity.

We have humane societies for animals, and yet we kill unborn babies?

Murder murderers?

Torture terrorists?

Baron1710
07-16-2008, 01:22 PM
We have humane societies for animals, and yet we kill unborn babies?

Murder murderers?

Torture terrorists?

Do you believe all killing is murder?

Ferd
07-16-2008, 01:25 PM
Sorry. I prefer the MLK approach.

you earn it, I will give it.

OnTheFritz
07-16-2008, 01:52 PM
Sorry. I prefer the MLK approach.

you earn it, I will give it.

Hey, that sounds like something out of the 3-steppers playbook :ursofunny

Nahum
07-16-2008, 01:53 PM
Do you believe all killing is murder?

I'm not sure.

I don't believe self-defense is wrong, if that's what your asking.

But I am 100% against abortion - and the death penalty.

Ferd
07-16-2008, 01:58 PM
Hey, that sounds like something out of the 3-steppers playbook :ursofunny

well, I am an unabashed believer in the water spirit doctrine.

Ferd
07-16-2008, 01:59 PM
I'm not sure.

I don't believe self-defense is wrong, if that's what your asking.

But I am 100% against abortion - and the death penalty.

I am 100% for protecting innocent life. sometimes that means executing someone who is both guilty of murder, and a danger to repeat the offense.

babies however are innocent beings.

Nahum
07-16-2008, 02:00 PM
I am 100% for protecting innocent life. sometimes that means executing someone who is both guilty of murder, and a danger to repeat the offense.

babies however are innocent beings.

So many times we convict and execute wrongfully.

In that case, we become murderers ourselves.

Ferd
07-16-2008, 02:01 PM
I am going to admit a personal failure here. And I am being serious.

I dont suffer fools very well. If an individual proves to be a bonehead, I am likely to oblige them by reacting in a manner they understand.

it clearly is a short coming on my part. I have yet to find a way to improve myself.

Ferd
07-16-2008, 02:03 PM
So many times we convict and execute wrongfully.

In that case, we become murderers ourselves.
I am for laws that limit the ability to inact the death penalty to cases where solid and obvious evidence exists.

that does not mean I am for allowing a killer to continue to have oppurtunity to kill again.

Baron1710
07-16-2008, 02:08 PM
I'm not sure.

I don't believe self-defense is wrong, if that's what your asking.

But I am 100% against abortion - and the death penalty.

So many times we convict and execute wrongfully.

In that case, we become murderers ourselves.

I guess my next question is who is we, and how do you define murder?

OnTheFritz
07-16-2008, 02:15 PM
well, I am an unabashed believer in the water spirit doctrine.

Yeah, I know. Just being funny.

I believe our duty to treat people with basic human dignity shouldn't depend on how they treat me. I can't say that I always adhere to that, but it's the ideal.

Nahum
07-16-2008, 02:24 PM
I guess my next question is who is we, and how do you define murder?

Killing the innocent.

Nahum
07-16-2008, 02:24 PM
Yeah, I know. Just being funny.

I believe our duty to treat people with basic human dignity shouldn't depend on how they treat me. I can't say that I always adhere to that, but it's the ideal.

I agree.

Isn't that called the Golden Rule?

Ferd
07-16-2008, 02:25 PM
Yeah, I know. Just being funny.

I believe our duty to treat people with basic human dignity shouldn't depend on how they treat me. I can't say that I always adhere to that, but it's the ideal.

Like I said, I have a weakness.

Baron1710
07-16-2008, 02:28 PM
Killing the innocent.

Didn't God command the killing of innocent people at times? I think to be murder it has to be more than just the killing of the innocent.

Nahum
07-16-2008, 02:29 PM
Didn't God command the killing of innocent people at times? I think to be murder it has to be more than just the killing of the innocent.

No, he didn't.

Entire nations were judged, and executed accordingly.

However, that in no wise fits in with New Testament Christianity.

Baron1710
07-16-2008, 02:38 PM
No, he didn't.

Entire nations were judged, and executed accordingly.

However, that in no wise fits in with New Testament Christianity.

So God gives a hypothetical where a man accidently drops a stone and kills someone else. The man who dropped the stone is innocent yet...

[if] the avenger of blood finds him outside the city, the avenger of blood may kill the accused without being guilty of murder.

Is this not similar to our justice system where it is possible that mistakes can be made? Though not nearly the number that some claim.

Ferd
07-16-2008, 02:40 PM
So God gives a hypothetical where a man accidently drops a stone and kills someone else. The man who dropped the stone is innocent yet...

[if] the avenger of blood finds him outside the city, the avenger of blood may kill the accused without being guilty of murder.

Is this not similar to our justice system where it is possible that mistakes can be made? Though not nearly the number that some claim.

I tend to get uncomfortable when folk start trying to apply OT law without NT principle.

Nahum
07-16-2008, 02:40 PM
So God gives a hypothetical where a man accidently drops a stone and kills someone else. The man who dropped the stone is innocent yet...

[if] the avenger of blood finds him outside the city, the avenger of blood may kill the accused without being guilty of murder.

Is this not similar to our justice system where it is possible that mistakes can be made? Though not nearly the number that some claim.

Are you honestly advocating OT law?

Eye for an eye?

Wow!

Mrs. LPW
07-16-2008, 02:41 PM
Human dignity refers to a state of righteousness, integrity, or virtue in human beings. The term dignity is defined as "the state of being worthy of honour or respect."

Do you believe in the concept of human dignity?

Yes most definitely.

I do have a question though.

Do you think it isn't showing human dignity to wish Rosie O wouldn't have came to SJ (one hours drive from my house) with a whole pile of gay and lesbian couples and some of them were married while they were here?

Because I wish she'd have stayed away.

Nahum
07-16-2008, 02:43 PM
Yes most definitely.

I do have a question though.

Do you think it isn't showing human dignity to wish Rosie O wouldn't have came to SJ (one hours drive from my house) with a whole pile of gay and lesbian couples and some of them were married while they were here?

Because I wish she'd have stayed away.

Treating people with dignity and respect does not mean we must agree with their belief system or lifestyle.

Mrs. LPW
07-16-2008, 02:44 PM
Treating people with dignity and respect does not mean we must agree with their belief system or lifestyle.

I wasn't sure if I was on your mind when you asked your question... so I wanted to make sure! :D
I didn't think I was, since Mrs. LPW is perfect.
We all know that.

Baron1710
07-16-2008, 02:45 PM
I tend to get uncomfortable when folk start trying to apply OT law without NT principle.

Are you honestly advocating OT law?

Eye for an eye?

Wow!

I'm not applying OT law. I am demonstrating that under the law a person could be righteous and yet kill the innocent. And this passage in Numbers is how we define murder in Western Civilization

Nahum
07-16-2008, 02:46 PM
I wasn't sure if I was on your mind when you asked your question... so I wanted to make sure! :D
I didn't think I was, since Mrs. LPW is perfect.
We all know that.

lol

No, an example of a lack of human dignity would be to call them a bunch of lewd names that we Pentecostals seem to think are perfectly okay to say because we are sometimes very self-righteous.

Nahum
07-16-2008, 02:47 PM
I'm not applying OT law. I am demonstrating that under the law a person could be righteous and yet kill the innocent. And this passage in Numbers is how we define murder in Western Civilization

I do not believe OT law, apart from NT interpretation, should be our guide.

Baron1710
07-16-2008, 02:48 PM
Are you honestly advocating OT law?

Eye for an eye?

Wow!

And yes I do advocate an eye for an eye. This has been misrepresented as vengeful when in reality it is a limit on punishment. today we would say, let the punishment fit the crime.

Mrs. LPW
07-16-2008, 02:50 PM
lol

No, an example of a lack of human dignity would be to call them a bunch of lewd names that we Pentecostals seem to think are perfectly okay to say because we are sometimes very self-righteous.

Ah yes... a peeve of mine.

Baron1710
07-16-2008, 02:55 PM
I do not believe OT law, apart from NT interpretation, should be our guide.

Romans 13:4
For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Do you think he carried the sword to spank them with?

Also while I don't think we should use the as applying to Christians today I do think there are many principles that are taught in the law.

You wouldn't think that one is not guilty of murder just because the definition is spelled out in numbers.

Nahum
07-16-2008, 02:58 PM
Romans 13:4
For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.

Do you think he carried the sword to spank them with?

Also while I don't think we should use the as applying to Christians today I do think there are many principles that are taught in the law.

You wouldn't think that one is not guilty of murder just because the definition is spelled out in numbers.

Friend, this is a gross misinterpretation of the meaning of this passage.

Do you really think this passage is speaking of a literal sword?

Baron1710
07-16-2008, 03:01 PM
Friend, this is a gross misinterpretation of the meaning of this passage.

Do you really think this passage is speaking of a literal sword?

Yes I do. Care to 'splain it to me?

Nahum
07-16-2008, 03:03 PM
You win.

I won't argue with a friend over something like this.

It's too time consuming, and a worthless endeavor.

Baron1710
07-16-2008, 03:08 PM
You win.

I won't argue with a friend over something like this.

It's too time consuming, and a worthless endeavor.

Winning is no fun when the other side doesn't try. I am curious how you interpret that verse in Romans though.

revrandy
07-16-2008, 03:12 PM
Matthew 18:21-23 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
[A Public Domain Bible] [KJV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

21Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

I think this explains it all...

Whether the offense is doctrinal, emotional, mental or criminal...Many times folks that can't forgive will never heal... I'm not saying forgiveness is easy it is often times the hardest ordeal one may face....but to grow and continue face it they must....

Vengeance is the Lords.... Whether or not we think it is left up to us..

Baron1710
07-16-2008, 03:14 PM
Matthew 18:21-23 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

Public Domain
[A Public Domain Bible] [KJV at Zondervan] [Zondervan]

21Then came Peter to him, and said, Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?

22Jesus saith unto him, I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven.

I think this explains it all...

Whether the offense is doctrinal, emotional, mental or criminal...Many times folks that can't forgive will never heal... I'm not saying forgiveness is easy it is often times the hardest ordeal one may face....but to grow and continue face it they must....

Vengeance is the Lords.... Whether or not we think it is left up to us..

Not sure what your point is. Do you mean there should be no enforcement of criminal laws?

Jack Shephard
07-16-2008, 03:16 PM
Well, the reason I ask is because of some of the posts I have viewed of late that seem to indicate that there are certain individuals and groups who are not worthy of basic human dignity.

Yes human dignity exists. It is not something that can be commanded it has to be given. Some earn it and some earn to not have it.

revrandy
07-16-2008, 03:19 PM
Not sure what your point is. Do you mean there should be no enforcement of criminal laws?

No...The Government in Place enforces the Law and the criminal faces his judgment....that being said the victim is still left with the stain of the offense... to overcome it they must be able to forgive to carry on... whatever the crime may be...

Baron1710
07-16-2008, 03:20 PM
No...The Government in Place enforces the Law and the criminal faces his judgment....that being said the victim is still left with the stain of the offense... to overcome it they must be able to forgive to carry on... whatever the crime may be...

Gotcha. Maybe that's why under OT law there was much more restitution rather than a debt to society idea.

Timmy
07-16-2008, 03:23 PM
PP, I agree with you.

If my any of my posts don't reflect that I am truely sorry.

I am aware that I carry joking a bit too far at times...

Do not.

Mrs. LPW
07-16-2008, 03:28 PM
PP, I agree with you.

If my any of my posts don't reflect that I am truely sorry.

I am aware that I carry joking a bit too far at times...

I've yet to witness that.