prophets- in these days?

[brodano]

Would you say we have prophets in our apostolic ranks today, like Mark Morgan--Lee Stoneking- Billy Cole- John arcovio,- and others?

Do you beleive these Prophets are of God? and if not explain yourself,

[BrotherEastman]

I believe we have prophets today.

[RandyWayne]

Would you say we have prophets in our apostolic ranks today, like Mark Morgan--Lee Stoneking- Billy Cole- John arcovio,- and others?

Do you beleive these Prophets are of God? and if not explain yourself,

And even more false ones.

[ReformedDave]

And even more false ones.

I'd duck if I were you..........:whistle

[brodano]

we might have false ones but thats when we need to discern what is good and bad, who is false and who is real- becareful what ya say about the man of GOD.

[Sam]

When I was at ABI back in the 1956/1957 year, Bro. Norris taught us that the offices of apostle and prophet had ceased and that only the offices of evangelist, pastor, and teacher remain in the church. He taught that there were no more than 12 apostles, that Paul was the real 12th one and Matthias was a mistake.

When I found over 20 people called apostles in the NT I realized that he must have been mistaken.

In my opinion, the 5 ministries listed in Ephesians 4:11 are valid today.
They are needed for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry for the building up of the body of Christ.
These offices will be needed, in my opinion, until the rapture.

[Sam]

we might have false ones but thats when we need to discern what is good and bad, who is false and who is real- becareful what ya say about the man of GOD.

If we have false prophets and/or false apostles, doesn't that prove that we have real ones too?

[RandyWayne]

If we have false prophets and/or false apostles, doesn't that prove that we have real ones too?

I have never seen, or even heard of, someone going around prophesying with 100% accuracy -every time.

[ReddMann24]

T.F. Tenney ..........Morton Bustard im sure there are others.

[Sam]

I have never seen, or even heard of, someone going around prophesying with 100% accuracy -every time.


Some day we will be perfected (raptured) but until then, we know in part and prophesy in part.

[deltaguitar]

I have never seen, or even heard of, someone going around prophesying with 100% accuracy -every time.

I have seen men prophesy to someone and I am thinking that is exactly what these people need to hear. And that person being prophecied to turn around and say, "well, he missed it on me."

Lets just face it. If we will lie to ourselves and not listen to preaching, teaching, or the word of God, what makes us think that we will listen to prophecy.

[Timmy]

If we have false prophets and/or false apostles, doesn't that prove that we have real ones too?

No.

[Tyk]

I've had people "prophesy" over me and it was powerful and direct to what I was dealing with. It seemed they some insight into my life, my feelings , or both.

At the same time -

I cry often when I pray/worship, so many people think "Oh joy a sinner full of guilt! I'll go tell him the sin in his life is bad!".. End up making up craziness and spilling it into my ear while I'm trying to pray. Needless to say it becomes very hard to pray :) - Hasn't happened in quite a while though!

[Sam]

Originally Posted by Sam
If we have false prophets and/or false apostles, doesn't that prove that we have real ones too?

Response by Timmy
No.


I was trying to use the analogy that the only reason we have counterfeit money is because there is real money. As far as I know, nobody produces counterfeit three dollar bills because there are no real three dollar bills.

[Timmy]

Originally Posted by Sam
If we have false prophets and/or false apostles, doesn't that prove that we have real ones too?

Response by Timmy
No.


I was trying to use the analogy that the only reason we have counterfeit money is because there is real money. As far as I know, nobody produces counterfeit three dollar bills because there are no real three dollar bills.

The analogy doesn't work. It is entirely possible that all prophets are fake. There is money to be made and admiration to be earned, so there is a huge incentive to perform. The hit ratio for some may be pretty good, but it's pretty good with psychics that perform on stage, too.

So no. The existence of fakes does not prove there is the real thing.

[Pro31:28]

I would never ask anyone to accept a belief based on my experience, however I was given a false prophecy at one point when I was about 17, and later in my life, different minister, given a completely accurate one. In fact that is what confirmed a decision in my heart that I was struggling with

[Timmy]

Occasional "hits" don't prove they are real, either.

I know, some of you are sick of my skepticism. That's understandable. But consider: even if there is the real thing, what about the many fakes? A lot of the fakes are in good standing with their denomination. They have a good reputation with the people and with ministers. Their hit rate may be better than average. But nobody's rate is 100%. I don't care if it's 99.9%, if they have blown it even once, they should just shut up and sit down. Why take the risk of hurting someone? When they miss, it proves that even the prophet can't tell when a "message" is really from God or not.

I'll tell you why they don't stop. It's like I said before, there is incentive to perform. There is money (for some), fame, kudos, honor (though they put on a show of humility, generally). It's especially true of traveling evangelists, who can walk away without having to clean up their own mess. Don't tell me you haven't seen that happen!

There are techniques that can be learned for getting good results, which can improve with practice. Educated "guessing" can amaze the folks who are hungry for hearing a word from God. A message that seems specific and amazingly accurate may actually be just vague enough that it could apply to a lot of people. The misses are quickly forgotten, but the hits will be talked about for a long time. People at a psychic entertainer's show will walk away in awe, saying there's no way he could have know that! Same thing can happen at a revival meeting.

Some will even stoop to cheating, such as using info they heard previously from the pastor or others, or overhearing conversations. Peter Popoff even used a radio receiver in his ear, to get prompts from his wife back stage!

Now, granted, none of this proves that there are no real prophets today. It just explains why I am skeptical. Is the devil really behind all the fakes? Or is it just ego and ambition? And, if there are real prophets, what purpose do they serve, if it's so difficult (I'd say impossible) to tell them apart from the fakes?

[Jack Shephard]

I am not certain as to whether we 'have' prophets or we have people that walk in a prophtic ministry. When I think prophet I think of a person that is prophet only. But many today move in that annointing but not ONLY in that annointing

[Rico]

I believe we have people used in the gift of prophecy, but I think true prophets are few and far between.

[RandyWayne]

I believe we have people used in the gift of prophecy, but I think true prophets are few and far between.

I am very skeptical whenever I hear of someone being a prophet, but having said that I DO believe they are around. I do NOT believe that they "perform" at will during church services and camp meetings though, over a hot mike, to the praise and adulation of the crowds.

[Rico]

I am very skeptical whenever I hear of someone being a prophet, but having said that I DO believe they are around. I do NOT believe that they "perform" at will during church services and camp meetings though, over a hot mike, to the praise and adulation of the crowds.

Using the Bible as our example, prophets were typically despised by the people.

[TRFrance]

Occasional "hits" don't prove they are real, either.

I know, some of you are sick of my skepticism. That's understandable. But consider: even if there is the real thing, what about the many fakes? A lot of the fakes are in good standing with their denomination. They have a good reputation with the people and with ministers. Their hit rate may be better than average. But nobody's rate is 100%. I don't care if it's 99.9%, if they have blown it even once, they should just shut up and sit down. Why take the risk of hurting someone? When they miss, it proves that even the prophet can't tell when a "message" is really from God or not.

I'll tell you why they don't stop. It's like I said before, there is incentive to perform. There is money (for some), fame, kudos, honor (though they put on a show of humility, generally). It's especially true of traveling evangelists, who can walk away without having to clean up their own mess. Don't tell me you haven't seen that happen!

There are techniques that can be learned for getting good results, which can improve with practice. Educated "guessing" can amaze the folks who are hungry for hearing a word from God. A message that seems specific and amazingly accurate may actually be just vague enough that it could apply to a lot of people. The misses are quickly forgotten, but the hits will be talked about for a long time. People at a psychic entertainer's show will walk away in awe, saying there's no way he could have know that! Same thing can happen at a revival meeting.

Some will even stoop to cheating, such as using info they heard previously from the pastor or others, or overhearing conversations. Peter Popoff even used a radio receiver in his ear, to get prompts from his wife back stage!

Now, granted, none of this proves that there are no real prophets today. It just explains why I am skeptical. Is the devil really behind all the fakes? Or is it just ego and ambition? And, if there are real prophets, what purpose do they serve, if it's so difficult (I'd say impossible) to tell them apart from the fakes?
I'm sorry Timmy,but the premise of your question is preposterous.
You seem to be almost implying that God shouldn't bother having real prophets because there are so many fakes out there already. Why should the real not operate because of the presence of fakes?

That's just not the way God works.

[Mrs. LPW]

that Paul was the real 12th one and Matthias was a mistake.
.

It is interesting that they cast lots for the 12th Apostle, instead of praying on it. And God raised up Paul, and Matthias is never mentioned again.

[Sister Alvear]

I believe in prophets...

[Timmy]

I'm sorry Timmy,but the premise of your question is preposterous.
You seem to be almost implying that God shouldn't bother having real prophets because there are so many fakes out there already. Why should the real not operate because of the presence of fakes?

That's just not the way God works.

Can you always tell when a "word" someone gives you is really from God?

Can you always tell when you get a "word" whether it is really from God?

[ReformedDave]

Prophet for profit....:whistle

[Sister Alvear]

Prophet for profit....:whistle


sadly a lot of those kind...

[Sam]

It is interesting that they cast lots for the 12th Apostle, instead of praying on it. And God raised up Paul, and Matthias is never mentioned again.

Matthias is never mentioned again in the Bible, but neither are some of the others who were part of the original 12, like Andrew and Philip for example.

[Sam]

I have the following notes about 26 people called "apostle" or "messenger" or "he that is sent" who are named.
There are also a couple who are not named, plus Jesus is called an apostle in the NT.

The original 12 are listed in Matthew 10:1-4 and Luke 6:12-16.

Here is the list according to my notes (don't know for sure where I got these notes or if the word count is accurate)

Apostles
See Matthew 10:1-4; Luke 6:12-16 for original 12

The word apostle comes from apo(apart) and stello(set fast)
and means one set apart, a delegated messenger

apostolos -a delegate, one sent with full power of attorney to act in the place of another, the sender remaining behind to back up the one sent.

The word occurs 81 times in the NT,
It is translated apostle 78 times,
messenger 2 times,
and he that is sent 1 time.

1 Peter, or Simon, or Kefa
2 Andrew
3 James (brother of John)
4 John (brother of James)
5 Philip
6 Batholomew or Nathaniel, brother of Philip
7 James, son of Alphaeus or James the less Mark 15:40
8 Judas, or Lebbaeus, whose surname was Thaddaeus, son of James,
9 Matthew or Levi of Alphaeus Mark 2:14; Lu 6:15-16
10Thomas or Didymus or Twin
11 Simon the Zealot Acts 1:13
12 Judas Iscariot
13 Matthias Acts 1:26 (Paul refers to him as one of the 12 in I Cor 15:5)
14 Saul or Paul Gal. 1:1; 2:7,8
15 Barnabas Acts 11:22; 13:1-4; 14:1,4,14;I Cor 9:5-6
16 Andronicus Rom 16:7
17 Junia or Junias, or Julia Rom 16:7 (only woman called an apostle)
18 Apollos I Cor 4:6-9
19 James the Lord’s brother Gal 1:19 Acts 1:14, 1 Cor 15:7
20 Timothy I Thess 1:1; 2:6
21 Silas or Silvanus I Thess 1:1; 2:6, Acts 15:23
22 Titus 2 Cor. 8:23 (messenger) Acts 19:22
23 Epaphroditus Phil 2:25 (messenger)
24 Erastus Acts 19:22
25 Judas (Barsabas) Acts 15:23
26 Tychicus 2 Tim 4:12
27 Unnamed brothers 2 Cor 8:23
28 Jesus Christ Heb. 3:1

[Pastor Keith]

Would you say we have prophets in our apostolic ranks today, like Mark Morgan--Lee Stoneking- Billy Cole- John arcovio,- and others?

Do you beleive these Prophets are of God? and if not explain yourself,

Yes I believe in prophets and all the other gifts listed in I Cor. 12, Eph. 4 and Romans 12.

[Steve Epley]

Matthias is never mentioned again in the Bible, but neither are some of the others who were part of the original 12, like Andrew and Philip for example.

Sam I realize what you are saying but you are incorrect
Matthias is mentioned over and over:
Peter standing up with the ELEVEN 2:14
said unto Peter and the REST of the Apostles 2:37
and they continued in the Apostle's doctrine
gave the Apostles witness 4:33
at the Apostle's feet 4:37
by the hands of the Apostles 5:12
then THE TWELVE 6:2
before the Apostles 6:6
I will stop now so I guess you get the drift. He is mentioned over and over.:whistle

[Sister Alvear]

He probably meant the name.

[Sam]

Sam I realize what you are saying but you are incorrect
Matthias is mentioned over and over:
Peter standing up with the ELEVEN 2:14
said unto Peter and the REST of the Apostles 2:37
and they continued in the Apostle's doctrine
gave the Apostles witness 4:33
at the Apostle's feet 4:37
by the hands of the Apostles 5:12
then THE TWELVE 6:2
before the Apostles 6:6
I will stop now so I guess you get the drift. He is mentioned over and over.:whistle

Elder, you are correct. I should have said he is not mentioned by name later than Acts 1.