Kings of Leon On David Letterman Tonight

[CC1]

Just got through watching the news and saw that on the David Letterman Late Show coming on (now on) the musical guests are "The Kings of Leon".

Some have posted about this group on NFCF and I think here. They are the kids from a family that not only used to be UPC but the father was a UPC pastor.

I don't know the story first hand but have heard that the entire family got out of church about the same time and the kids ended up into rock and roll.

I assume this had to be around ten years or more ago since I moved to Nashville in 1999 and the dad was suppposed to have pastored here and I have never heard of him.

I am guessing it must not have been a very big church or it would have been big news.

Does anyone know the family or the story?

[Sherri]

I know most of the story; pretty sad. He pastored closer to this area, in West Tennessee. They ended up splitting up, because he had some major character problems, which I won't go into. His ex-wife actually was the secretary at our insurance office here in Jackson for a while, but she had known Eddie since they were kids at youth camp. She eventually married her boss, I think, and moved to Nashville and they attend Christ Church. Her sister goes to our church here in Jackson.

The sad thing is that the boys were so hurt by all of this that they have never recovered spiritually. They are very talented; I've seen them on TV before. But they need to overcome their bad feelings about the church and God, which are all based on their negative experiences, I guess.

[CC1]

I know most of the story; pretty sad. He pastored closer to this area, in West Tennessee. They ended up splitting up, because he had some major character problems, which I won't go into. His ex-wife actually was the secretary at our insurance office here in Jackson for a while, but she had known Eddie since they were kids at youth camp. She eventually married her boss, I think, and moved to Nashville and they attend Christ Church. Her sister goes to our church here in Jackson.

The sad thing is that the boys were so hurt by all of this that they have never recovered spiritually. They are very talented; I've seen them on TV before. But they need to overcome their bad feelings about the church and God, which are all based on their negative experiences, I guess.

I wonder if the kids ever come visit their mom here in Nashville and if so if they ever visit Christ Church?

[Just a Shepherd]

I wonder if the kids ever come visit their mom here in Nashville and if so if they ever visit Christ Church?

Seeing as how they are demon posessed, I doubt they have any interest in going to church [except to mock maybe].

[Sherri]

I wonder if the kids ever come visit their mom here in Nashville and if so if they ever visit Christ Church?
I don't think the boys ever go to church, but I could be wrong. They do have a relationship with Betty Ann though (the mom).

[Sherri]

Seeing as how they are demon posessed, I doubt they have any interest in going to church [except to mock maybe].
Where in the world did this come from? Do you know them personally????

[berkeley]

Seeing as how they are demon posessed, I doubt they have any interest in going to church [except to mock maybe].
they are demon possessed?

[Scott Hutchinson]

These guys play fiddle and banjo music?

[berkeley]

These guys play fiddle and banjo music?

naw

[Scott Hutchinson]

naw

Oh they play Alternative Country then?

[rrford]

These guys play fiddle and banjo music?

Well, since that is devil music...:slaphappy

[Just a Shepherd]

Where in the world did this come from? Do you know them personally????

It's called discernment. Listen to thier music - read the lyrics and watch how they perform. Demonic spirits are the foundation of the type of music they play. If you want, I can post the link to a 5 minute video and you can watch them grunt, sweat and start screaming while they wreck their instruments before leaving the stage.

What are you saying by your post? That they are "nice little long haired Christian boys" who haven't made Jesus the Lord of their life yet?

They are backslidden reprobates who have rejected Jesus Christ and now promote their Father Satan's lies to anyone who will listen.

[Scott Hutchinson]

Well, since that is devil music...:slaphappy

Devil music no way?

[Sherri]

It's called discernment. Listen to thier music - read the lyrics and watch how they perform. Demonic spirits are the foundation of the type of music they play. If you want, I can post the link to a 5 minute video and you can watch them grunt, sweat and start screaming while they wreck their instruments before leaving the stage.

What are you saying by your post? That they are "nice little long haired Christian boys" who havn't made Jesus the Lord of their life yet?

They are backslidden reprobates who have rejected Jesus Christ and now promote their Father Satan's lies to anyone who will listen.
Hey, I don't like their music, I just said they were talented young men. They are very mixed up, but if you knew the whole story, you would be a little more compassionate and a lot less judgmental. You are, by and large, a product of your upbringing.

[Scott Hutchinson]

It's called discernment. Listen to thier music - read the lyrics and watch how they perform. Demonic spirits are the foundation of the type of music they play. If you want, I can post the link to a 5 minute video and you can watch them grunt, sweat and start screaming while they wreck their instruments before leaving the stage.

What are you saying by your post? That they are "nice little long haired Christian boys" who havn't made Jesus the Lord of their life yet?

They are backslidden reprobates who have rejected Jesus Christ and now promote their Father Satan's lies to anyone who will listen.

You mean they smash guitars like Pete Townsend,they are from the wicked one then,especially if they smash any Les Pauls?

[Just a Shepherd]

Hey, I don't like their music, I just said they were talented young men. They are very mixed up, but if you knew the whole story, you would be a little more compassionate and a lot less judgmental. You are, by and large, a product of your upbringing.

I am judging righteous judgement. I don't have anything personal against them. The truth is the truth and it really doesn't matter what happened to them. Things weren't all that easy for me either. That won't excuse anyone on the day of judgement.

[berkeley]

I am judging righteous judgement. I don't have anything personal against them. The truth is the truth and it really doesn't matter what happened to them. Things weren't all that easy for me either. That won't excuse anyone on the day of judgement.
And you know they are demon possessed??

[Just a Shepherd]

You mean they smash guitars like Pete Townsend,they are from the wicked one then,especially if they smash any Les Pauls?

I know you're joking but I am really going to be saddened if a bunch of Apostolic people come on here and start defending them because they are "hurt by a preacher types."

I suppose Marylin Manson is really a good guy if you take the time to understand why he's such a freak...

[HeavenlyOne]

Just got through watching the news and saw that on the David Letterman Late Show coming on (now on) the musical guests are "The Kings of Leon".

Some have posted about this group on NFCF and I think here. They are the kids from a family that not only used to be UPC but the father was a UPC pastor.

I don't know the story first hand but have heard that the entire family got out of church about the same time and the kids ended up into rock and roll.

I assume this had to be around ten years or more ago since I moved to Nashville in 1999 and the dad was suppposed to have pastored here and I have never heard of him.

I am guessing it must not have been a very big church or it would have been big news.

Does anyone know the family or the story?

LadyRev knows the family as they attended her church. She was the boys' SS teacher.

[Arphaxad]

These guys play fiddle and banjo music?

banjo music- genius music for genius minds

[berkeley]

I know you're joking but I am really going to be saddened if a bunch of Apostolic come on here and start defending them because they are "hurt" because of a preacher types.

I suppose Marylin Manson is really a good guy if you take the time to understand why he's such a freak...

Marylin Manson is very talented.!!

[Just a Shepherd]

And you know they are demon possessed??

Berkeley, it's called Holy Ghost discernment. If I were to just post the lyrics to a few of their songs the Admin would remove them because of offensive content. Those ideas and philosophies come from Satan.

[rrford]

banjo music- genius music for genius minds

Devil music.

[berkeley]

Berkeley, it's called Holy Ghost discernment. If I were to just post the lyrics to a few of their songs the Admin would remove them because of offensive content. Those ideas and philosophies come from Satan.

I've listened to a few of their songs and did not hear anything inappropriate.

[Scott Hutchinson]

I know you're joking but I am really going to be saddened if a bunch of Apostolic come on here and start defending them because they are "hurt" because of a preacher types.

I suppose Marylin Manson is really a good guy if you take the time to understand why he's such a freak...

marilyn mason is a devil like alice cooper or the kiss I used to listen to.

[Just a Shepherd]

I've listened to a few of their songs and did not hear anything inappropriate.

Well, what did you hear?

[berkeley]

marilyn mason is a devil like alice cooper or the kiss I used to listen to.

Alice Cooper.. haha.. get real man!

[Scott Hutchinson]

Alice Cooper.. haha.. get real man!

I used to listen to black sabbath as well.

[Arphaxad]

Devil music.

only when they use electric banjos with super distortion pickups going through a digital delay and a wall of Marshal amps cranked up to 11.


ARPH:doggyrun

[berkeley]

I used to listen to black sabbath as well.
I like Alice Cooper...:friend

[Arphaxad]

I like Alice Cooper...:friend

you know, his father was some kind of preacher.

[berkeley]

you know, his father was some kind of preacher.
Probably.. lol... pk's like to rebel!!

[deadeye]

You mean they smash guitars like Pete Townsend,they are from the wicked one then,especially if they smash any [U]Les Pauls?

I dont know about Les Pauls, but you mess up a Fender Tele and you are headed straight down.

[DaisyP]

Wow. Their website says they named one of their albums, "Because Of the Times" after an annual preachers conference they used to attend.

[Neck]

you know, his father was some kind of preacher.

He was Baptist.

[MissBrattified]

He was Baptist.

Really? I think you're incorrect.... :coffee2

[MissBrattified]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kings_of_Leon

Quote from Wiki:

"The group's name is derived from Nathan, Caleb, and Jared's father and grandfather, both named Leon [1]. Jared and Caleb were born in Tennessee, while Nathan and Matthew were born in Oklahoma. The brothers spent much of their youth travelling around the American South with their father, a traveling United Pentecostal Church preacher and their mother, who taught them when they were not in school."

Also....their new album title is "Because Of The Times", and is a direct reference to BOTT in Alexandria, which they attended with their parents.

[Coonskinner]

I knew the family fairly well.

Their father was a talented preacher wityh a lot of oratory ability but serious character issues and a very shallow devotional life.

This is a sad deal.

[Sherri]

I know you're joking but I am really going to be saddened if a bunch of Apostolic people come on here and start defending them because they are "hurt by a preacher types."

I suppose Marylin Manson is really a good guy if you take the time to understand why he's such a freak...
Come on, nobody's defending these boys or what they're doing. They are definitely on the wrong track. And I don't care what you say, if your father (who was also your pastor) did the things that their father did, you might have lost confidence in church or God too. I think instead of condemning them, you might ought to pray for them. They have a long way back to the God of their youth!

[Coonskinner]

Come on, nobody's defending these boys or what they're doing. They are definitely on the wrong track. And I don't care what you say, if your father (who was also your pastor) did the things that their father did, you might have lost confidence in church or God too. I think instead of condemning them, you might ought to pray for them. They have a long way back to the God of their youth!

Their dad could crawl out of bed, get up, and preach a flashy and catchy sermon almost without effort.

But when he preached revivals for us, you had a hard time catching him praying.

Berkeley's pastor, on the other hand, also preached for us.

That man prayed. I know, because I was young and spent a good bit of time at the church praying, and he was there a lot when I was.

He impressed me; the other fellow didn't, although he was the better natural orator.

[rgcraig]

Really? I think you're incorrect.... :coffee2

I believe he was talking about Alice Cooper's father.

[MissBrattified]

He impressed me; the other fellow didn't, although he was the better natural orator.

Jeff's[my husband] Dad is an AOG preacher...he was the sort who would preach a fine sermon, be smiling and friendly, tousle his kids hair and look like the perfect husband and father, then come home and beat his wife and kids half to death. Jeff's siblings are still twisted up over it, and Jeff has had to have God's help to get over it himself.

For kids, it's another dimension of mind-boggling when your father is a minister, and lives a double life. And children tend to believe that all other families have the same dynamic as their own, making it difficult for them to trust any other minister, or even God, as a result.

I'm not saying kids don't become responsible for their own actions eventually...of course they do...but there are some parents who are going to pay the piper when God holds them accountable for the damage they did to their children.

I imagine the devil is really pleased with himself for taking those boys where he has.... It's very sad. To me it seems impossible that they would ever find their way back, but with God, nothing is impossible!

[MissBrattified]

I believe he was talking about Alice Cooper's father.

Oh, okay...you're probably right. :tiphat

[Scott Hutchinson]

I dont know about Les Pauls, but you mess up a Fender Tele and you are headed straight down.

Thats right and especially one with a parsons-white string bender.

[Pastor Keith]

Just got through watching the news and saw that on the David Letterman Late Show coming on (now on) the musical guests are "The Kings of Leon".

Some have posted about this group on NFCF and I think here. They are the kids from a family that not only used to be UPC but the father was a UPC pastor.

I don't know the story first hand but have heard that the entire family got out of church about the same time and the kids ended up into rock and roll.

I assume this had to be around ten years or more ago since I moved to Nashville in 1999 and the dad was suppposed to have pastored here and I have never heard of him.

I am guessing it must not have been a very big church or it would have been big news.

Does anyone know the family or the story?

They even admit that the title for their new album, Because of the Times is taken from the Mangun Conference.

To bad, the seem very talented, but when Parents live inconsistent lives, and keep an unhealthy heart the children reap it.

In my field and secular job, in almost every case where there is a trouble and screwed up child the blame lays at the feet of parents. 99% of the time!

[Ron]

Their dad could crawl out of bed, get up, and preach a flashy and catchy sermon almost without effort.

But when he preached revivals for us, you had a hard time catching him praying.

Berkeley's pastor, on the other hand, also preached for us.

That man prayed. I know, because I was young and spent a good bit of time at the church praying, and he was there a lot when I was.

He impressed me; the other fellow didn't, although he was the better natural orator.

While I know nothing of either man CS, based on your observations it is quite telling that it isn't just in a persons ability to preach, but in their Character.

[Coonskinner]

While I know nothing of either man CS, based on your observations it is quite telling that it isn't just in a persons ability to preach, but in their Character.


God spent a couple of chapters in Genesis dealing with the creation of the universe.

He allotted many times that many chapters to the story of Joseph, which really is the saga of a man's character being tried and built through adversity.

Character is THE issue. everything else being equal.

[berkeley]

Their dad could crawl out of bed, get up, and preach a flashy and catchy sermon almost without effort.

But when he preached revivals for us, you had a hard time catching him praying.

Berkeley's pastor, on the other hand, also preached for us.

That man prayed. I know, because I was young and spent a good bit of time at the church praying, and he was there a lot when I was.

He impressed me; the other fellow didn't, although he was the better natural orator.
This made me smile. :) Elder Coon, he ALWAYS stresses the importance of PRAYER!! ALWAYS!!!

[CC1]

God spent a couple of chapters in Genesis dealing with the creation of the universe.

He allotted many times that many chapters to the story of Joseph, which really is the saga of a man's character being tried and built through adversity.

Character is THE issue. everything else being equal.

Good post. I agree. However, I like it when a man has character, a prayer life, AND has good oratory!!!!!

I like them there "total packages" as they say here in Tennessee.

I do know of men who could not preach their way out of a paper bag who built great churches on prayer so you are right on the money that between oratory skills and a prayer life the prayer life goes a lot further and more importantly deeper.

[CC1]

While there is no doubt that these young men are not on the best possible path for their life I really wonder if proclamations of "demon possession" are appropriate.

Someone can be living a wrong life, committing sin, etc, etc without neccesarily being "demon possessed". Our fallen human nature alone is enough to insure plenty of sin and wrong choices!!!!

[deadeye]

Thats right and especially one with a parsons-white string bender.

I've seen those b-benders but I've never used one. Tough enuf mastering the geetar without adding things on to complicate it.

[Old Paths]

God spent a couple of chapters in Genesis dealing with the creation of the universe.

He allotted many times that many chapters to the story of Joseph, which really is the saga of a man's character being tried and built through adversity.

Character is THE issue. everything else being equal.

IMHO.

Joseph developed excellent character in spite of horrendous personal abuse from his brothers. Joseph didn't know what his brothers had told his father and could have spent a lifetime feeling abandoned by his father also.

I know personally a lady that was abused by her parents and brothers, but refused the crutch ("I was abused") that so many lean on when asked WHY their life is in shambles.

These guys aren't the only ones to grow up and find their parents weren't what they appeared to be, so have tons of other kids, but the others haven't taken to mocking the Church.

[NLYP]

Seeing as how they are demon posessed, I doubt they have any interest in going to church [except to mock maybe].

Moran!

[Old Paths]

Spellcheck alert!

[CC1]

Moran!

Who is Mr. Moran? (for a minute I thought you were trying to get banned again with a personal attack, calling someone a moron!)

[NLYP]

Who is Mr. Moran? (for a minute I thought you were trying to get banned again with a personal attack, calling someone a moron!)

LOL You know...Ive been gone so long....what little I can, I have to make it count.:tiphat

[MissBrattified]

IMHO.

Joseph developed excellent character in spite of horrendous personal abuse from his brothers. Joseph didn't know what his brothers had told his father and could have spent a lifetime feeling abandoned by his father also.

I know personally a lady that was abused by her parents and brothers, but refused the crutch ("I was abused") that so many lean on when asked WHY their life is in shambles.

These guys aren't the only ones to grow up and find their parents weren't what they appeared to be, so have tons of other kids, but the others haven't taken to mocking the Church.

Good points. I certainly believe that once children become adults they are responsible for their own decisions, and God will hold them just as accountable as anyone else, no matter what their past consists of.

I do think it's interesting to observe, though, the level of "wildness" that emerges when children in a minister's home rebel, as opposed to those from a "regular" home...it seems to be much, much more extreme, especially when things were not okay on the home front.

I think that ministers have a double responsibility for keeping themselves in check at home, as well as outside the home, because they have to remember that they are pastoring their family as well as their church. Many times, that seems to be forgotten or neglected and home is a place to rant and rave and vent and let it all hang out, consequences be, well.....

A person in authority, such as a parent, can cause lasting damage to a soul, especially a small soul, if they aren't careful, and when that authority is magnified into pastor or preacher, so that the authority isn't just parental, but spiritual...well...there's the recipe for disaster. Add to the process that children have no choice but to endure such leadership, and can't, like a regular saint, remove themselves from under an abusive, immoral pastor because he happens to also be their father?

Hmmmm.

Seems to me that the qualifications for a Bishop weren't just light words and suggestions...I could name several ministers right now that certainly don't fall under the "not soon angry" and "not a striker" guidelines, and they've kept their positions for years...decades, actually. Those two things alone can really mess up a child. That's just off the top of my head. I think there's a reason that guidelines were given specifically for ministers...not because saints don't have to follow the same things, really, but because ministers have people--and families--depending on them for spiritual leadership and guidance and nurturing....

*sigh*

[Felicity]

Great post Abigail!

[Sherri]

Their dad could crawl out of bed, get up, and preach a flashy and catchy sermon almost without effort.

But when he preached revivals for us, you had a hard time catching him praying.

Berkeley's pastor, on the other hand, also preached for us.

That man prayed. I know, because I was young and spent a good bit of time at the church praying, and he was there a lot when I was.

He impressed me; the other fellow didn't, although he was the better natural orator.
I know lots of guys like this; they depend on their talent and don't "need" God to preach. I thank God I have a praying man for a husband!! He's there early every morning, and about 5:30 on Sunday, praying for God's favor and anointing.

[MissBrattified]

Great post Abigail!

ty. :cool:

[Scott Hutchinson]

I couldn't teach my way out of a wet paperbag without prayer,cause I have no natural speaking talent.

[CC1]

I do think it's interesting to observe, though, the level of "wildness" that emerges when children in a minister's home rebel, as opposed to those from a "regular" home...it seems to be much, much more extreme, especially when things were not okay on the home front.



I know what you mean. I had this friend P.J. and you should hear the stories about her and her sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

























J/K:winkgrin

[Scott Hutchinson]

I know what you mean. I had this friend P.J. and you should hear the stories about her and her sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*

























J/K:winkgrin

PJ can sing,she can get down on it.

[MissBrattified]

I know what you mean. I had this friend P.J. and you should hear the stories about her and her sister!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*










J/K:winkgrin

Very Funny!!!! :D

Truth be told, though, if there were any wild stories shared, they would be about her and my OTHER two sisters...since I was just a baby when they were teenagers. They're all so much OLDER than me...about your age, right? :slaphappy

Any wildness that I may or may not have experienced would be unknown to them. :haloplug

[MissBrattified]

PJ can sing,she can get down on it.

That she can!!! I wish I had her range... :bow My voice is lowwwwwww.....

[Scott Hutchinson]

That she can!!! I wish I had her range... :bow My voice is lowwwwwww.....

And beside she helped me get an Acts 2:38 the ultimate experience book by Bishop Phillips.

[MissBrattified]

And beside she helped me get an Acts 2:38 the ultimate experience book by Bishop Phillips.

:friend

[Scott Hutchinson]

You know PJ really gets into her singing, she can really move.

[seguidordejesus]

You know PJ really gets into her singing, she can really move.

Aren't you a married man? :grampa

[Scott Hutchinson]

Aren't you a married man? :grampa

Yes I am,I meant no harm.

[NLYP]

Yall I am heartbroken...I just revceived an INFRACTION for saying Moron!

hmmmm something is wrong with this picture....Someone can say they are demon possesed but not a moron??
What is wrong with this picture....just wondering...

[Old Paths]

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a77/OldPath/811.jpg

[Tina]

Yall I am heartbroken...I just revceived an INFRACTION for saying Moron!

hmmmm something is wrong with this picture....Someone can say they are demon possesed but not a moron??
What is wrong with this picture....just wondering...

His reference wasn't made to someone speaking in this thread, yours was.

As far as knowing if he got an infraction, I have no idea... I didn't give one-- not even yours. :D Just thought I'd give you my two cents on why someone gave you one since you seemed to be wondering why it happened.

[rgcraig]

Yall I am heartbroken...I just revceived an INFRACTION for saying Moron!

hmmmm something is wrong with this picture....Someone can say they are demon possesed but not a moron??
What is wrong with this picture....just wondering...Next time at least spell it right (wasn't spelled correctly in the post you received the infraction for)!

[South of I 90]

I haven't heard anyone give a review of their performance on Letterman.

I missed it.

[MissBrattified]

Aren't you a married man? :grampa

I think you misunderstood what he meant by "move"....she does sing church music, after all...LOL!!!!

[Just a Shepherd]

Come on, nobody's defending these boys or what they're doing. They are definitely on the wrong track. And I don't care what you say, if your father (who was also your pastor) did the things that their father did, you might have lost confidence in church or God too. I think instead of condemning them, you might ought to pray for them. They have a long way back to the God of their youth!

Sherri, let us reason together. We are not comparing them to me or my upbringing. We are weighing their actions against the Word. Secondly, I am not condemning them. I have no power to condemn anyone. How am I condemning them? By telling the truth? So because they have "lost confidence in God" they get a free pass? Who else are you willing to just excuse because they had a troubled past?

I am very troubled at what appears to be a kind of moral relativism on your part. Through their music they will promote Satan's lies and ungodliness to the youth of America. many of those youth will be influenced to use drugs and some will die. Others will be destroyed spiritually and will end up in the Lake of Fire because of music like this. What about those kids Sherri? And what about the youth of the UPC who are already on the edge and hear about the KOL so they too leave the church? Do you care about those young people?

And what about the Bible? Do you care what it says?

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret. (Eph 5:11-12)

[CC1]

Very Funny!!!! :D

Truth be told, though, if there were any wild stories shared, they would be about her and my OTHER two sisters...since I was just a baby when they were teenagers. They're all so much OLDER than me...about your age, right? :slaphappy

Any wildness that I may or may not have experienced would be unknown to them. :haloplug

OUCH!!! You know how to hurt a guy who is just a couple of months away from 48. My only conoslation is that Scupples and rcraig are MUCH older than I am!

[aegsm76]

I knew these guys and their families quite well. Used to go to church, camps and play ball with their dad, uncles and other relatives.
Three of these guys lived with my brother in law for over a year.
Demon possessed?
I do not think any of these guys are demon possessed. The devil did not have to go to such lengths. They know exactly what they are doing and where they are going. If you asked them where they thought they would spend eternity, in their present condition, I firmly believe they would not say heaven!
They were always spoiled, coddled, and never called to account for most things that they did, thus this outcome......
I can only pray that somewhere down the road they realize the empty dream they are chasing and remember back to the real spirit they felt in an apostolic service.

[berkeley]

Next time at least spell it right (wasn't spelled correctly in the post you received the infraction for)!
there's an officer at the local P.D. His last name is Moran. He's such a clutz, they call him moron. lol

[Just a Shepherd]

While there is no doubt that these young men are not on the best possible path for their life I really wonder if proclamations of "demon possession" are appropriate.

Someone can be living a wrong life, committing sin, etc, etc without neccesarily being "demon possessed". Our fallen human nature alone is enough to insure plenty of sin and wrong choices!!!!

I am basing what I said partly on these verses:

When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. (Mat 12:43-45)

[seguidordejesus]

I think you misunderstood what he meant by "move"....she does sing church music, after all...LOL!!!!

Yeah yeah ;)

I WAS joking:tiphat

[MissBrattified]

I am basing what I said partly on these verses:

When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. (Mat 12:43-45)

So is it your belief, then, that every backslider is demon-possessed?

[RevDWW]

I am basing what I said partly on these verses:

When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none. Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished. Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation. (Mat 12:43-45)

This passage says an unclean spirit was there in the first place, then left. Do you know this boys were possessed at some time before now?
I DO NOT condone their present actions, but I will not condemn them as devil possessed either.

[South of I 90]

Can anyone give a review of their performance on Letterman last night??!!

[Sherri]

Sherri, let us reason together. We are not comparing them to me or my upbringing. We are weighing their actions against the Word. Secondly, I am not condemning them. I have no power to condemn anyone. How am I condemning them? By telling the truth? So because they have "lost confidence in God" they get a free pass? Who else are you willing to just excuse because they had a troubled past?

I am very troubled at what appears to be a kind of moral relativism on your part. Through their music they will promote Satan's lies and ungodliness to the youth of America. many of those youth will be influenced to use drugs and some will die. Others will be destroyed spiritually and will end up in the Lake of Fire because of music like this. What about those kids Sherri? And what about the youth of the UPC who are already on the edge and hear about the KOL so they too leave the church? Do you care about those young people?

And what about the Bible? Do you care what it says?
I DO NOT BELIEVE IN MORAL RELATIVISM!!! What a ridiculous thing to say! Once again, I am not excusing them or what they do. I think they are probably as lost as can be, but I still think rather than rant and rave about what they're doing, we should be praying for their restoration.

And who said anything about them getting a free pass? I think if they don't repent, they will be harshly judged. But I HOPE THEY REPENT!

[Carpenter]

Their dad could crawl out of bed, get up, and preach a flashy and catchy sermon almost without effort.

But when he preached revivals for us, you had a hard time catching him praying.

Berkeley's pastor, on the other hand, also preached for us.

That man prayed. I know, because I was young and spent a good bit of time at the church praying, and he was there a lot when I was.

He impressed me; the other fellow didn't, although he was the better natural orator.

Berkley's pastor? Isn't that like saying, Saddam Hussen's country? :slaphappy :slaphappy



sorry Berk...couldn't resist! :D

[berkeley]

Berkley's pastor? Isn't that like saying, Saddam Hussen's country? :slaphappy :slaphappy:mad: :( :o :p :rolleyes: :confused: I don't know how to take that comment.:nah

[Carpenter]

:mad: :( :o :p :rolleyes: :confused: I don't know how to take that comment.:nah

Take it TIC... :slaphappy

[Hesetmefree238]

Hey, I don't like their music, I just said they were talented young men. They are very mixed up, but if you knew the whole story, you would be a little more compassionate and a lot less judgmental. You are, by and large, a product of your upbringing.

Regardless of our upbringing or any hurt we have experienced in our lives, these things will not excuse us on judgement day.

[berkeley]

Take it TIC... :slaphappyI reported you to admin. And I'm placing you on ignore.. you threw salt on my wounds..

good day!!

[Sherri]

Regardless of our upbringing or any hurt we have experienced in our lives, these things will not excuse us on judgement day.
I totally agree, but let God judge on Judgement Day, not us in the here and now. This family needs a lot of prayer coverage.

[berkeley]

I reported you to admin. And I'm placing you on ignore.. you threw salt on my wounds..

good day!!

does this qualify as TIC??

[Just a Shepherd]

So is it your belief, then, that every backslider is demon-possessed?

I didn't say that - but many are. Are you saying it is not possible?

[Just a Shepherd]

This passage says an unclean spirit was there in the first place, then left. Do you know this boys were possessed at some time before now?
I DO NOT condone their present actions, but I will not condemn them as devil possessed either.

Just how do you see my saying they are demon possessed as condemning them? what power do I have to condemn anyone? In your mind what does someone have to do to qualify as being demon posessed?

[Just a Shepherd]

I DO NOT BELIEVE IN MORAL RELATIVISM!!! What a ridiculous thing to say! Once again, I am not excusing them or what they do. I think they are probably as lost as can be, but I still think rather than rant and rave about what they're doing, we should be praying for their restoration.

And who said anything about them getting a free pass? I think if they don't repent, they will be harshly judged. But I HOPE THEY REPENT!

For the record, I hope they repent too. Others have walked away from rock music because of an experience with God, I hope they do too. But I'm "ranting and raving" because they are on Letterman for crying out loud! They are PROMOTING sin, self abuse and Satan through their anti-Christ message. Like it or not, I am a preacher of the gospel and one of my duties is to warn people that this is not OK! This is the time for "ranting and raving" as you call it.

[MissBrattified]

I didn't say that - but many are. Are you saying it is not possible?

Of course not. But you seem to be saying that it's the case across the board, in support of your earlier assessment that these boys are demon-possessed, which you supported then with these comments:

Demonic spirits are the foundation of the type of music they play.

you can watch them grunt, sweat and start screaming while they wreck their instruments before leaving the stage.

I'm not saying you're right or wrong...just that your original statement seemed like you were stating it as if it were fact, and your support for your statement followed with statements about "discernment", and now you are making a different case, which seems to be that all backsliders are logically homes for evil spirits according to the scripture reference you provided, and thus "demon-possessed."

So, no, I'm not saying it's impossible...I'm just a bit bemused by your reaction and your statements. I'm not supporting their actions at all. Many ministers' kids have suffered much greater difficulties and obstacles and made it through just fine, and ultimately God doesn't allow excuses, IMO.

I dunno. It just feels "funny" when you state with a measure of authority and definity that the boys ARE demon-possessed. That makes it a factual statement on your part, which is of course going to lead to curiosity from the rest of us as to how you know that. The videos I pulled up on youtube don't seem all that "rough"....??? I didn't watch all the videos available, and the ones I watched I didn't watch in entirety, so I can't really argue with you until I have, I suppose....

Try not to make the huge leap between answering curious questions to thinking I (and others) are supporting rebellion. It's a little silly.

[MissBrattified]

For the record, I hope they repent too. Others have walked away from rock music because of an experience with God, I hope they do too. But I'm "ranting and raving" because they are on Letterman for crying out loud! They are PROMOTING sin, self abuse and Satan through their anti-Christ message. Like it or not, I am a preacher of the gospel and one of my duties is to warn people that this is not OK! This is the time for "ranting and raving" as you call it.

They're sinners. I would expect such from them. My Dad was raised in an Apostolic home, and backslid as a teenager. He stayed that way and drank and caroused and had his own rock band and sinned as much as he possibly could until he was 39 years old, when he finally turned his life around and gave it all back to God. Do I think my father was demon-possessed???? Um...no. Hard-nosed sinner? Yes!!! Unreachable? No.

Johnny Godair once visited my Dad (along with another minister whose name I can't recall) and witnessed to him and my father disrespected him and blew smoke in his face, but the visit affected him a great deal and was probably one of the many catalysts that finally brought him back to where he needed to be.

Anyway, I just don't think I can agree with the idea that all backsliders are demon-possessed.

[RevDWW]

Just how do you see my saying they are demon possessed as condemning them? what power do I have to condemn anyone? In your mind what does someone have to do to qualify as being demon posessed?

Forget about my mind, what does the scripture say are signs someone is demon possessed?

[Just a Shepherd]

Of course not. But you seem to be saying that it's the case across the board, in support of your earlier assessment that these boys are demon-possessed, which you supported then with these comments:





I'm not saying you're right or wrong...just that your original statement seemed like you were stating it as if it were fact, and your support for your statement followed with statements about "discernment", and now you are making a different case, which seems to be that all backsliders are logically homes for evil spirits according to the scripture reference you provided, and thus "demon-possessed."

So, no, I'm not saying it's impossible...I'm just a bit bemused by your reaction and your statements. I'm not supporting their actions at all. Many ministers' kids have suffered much greater difficulties and obstacles and made it through just fine, and ultimately God doesn't allow excuses, IMO.

I dunno. It just feels "funny" when you state with a measure of authority and definity that the boys ARE demon-possessed. That makes it a factual statement on your part, which is of course going to lead to curiosity from the rest of us as to how you know that. The videos I pulled up on youtube don't seem all that "rough"....??? I didn't watch all the videos available, and the ones I watched I didn't watch in entirety, so I can't really argue with you until I have, I suppose....

Try not to make the huge leap between answering curious questions to thinking I (and others) are supporting rebellion. It's a little silly.

That's why I said that I base my assessment PARTLY on the scriptures and the rest on my discernment. I was heavily involved in the rock and roll scene and have seen it. I guess that I am just a little surprised that so many Apostolics are acting as if it would be some wildly unbelievable phenomenon.

[Just a Shepherd]

They're sinners. I would expect such from them. My Dad was raised in an Apostolic home, and backslid as a teenager. He stayed that way and drank and caroused and had his own rock band and sinned as much as he possibly could until he was 39 years old, when he finally turned his life around and gave it all back to God. Do I think my father was demon-possessed???? Um...no. Hard-nosed sinner? Yes!!! Unreachable? No.

Johnny Godair once visited my Dad (along with another minister whose name I can't recall) and witnessed to him and my father disrespected him and blew smoke in his face, but the visit affected him a great deal and was probably one of the many catalysts that finally brought him back to where he needed to be.

Anyway, I just don't think I can agree with the idea that all backsliders are demon-possessed.

Ok Just curious, how do you know your dad wasn't demon posessed at the time he blew smoke in a man of God's face?

[Just a Shepherd]

Forget about my mind, what does the scripture say are signs someone is demon possessed?

No disrespect meant here but you can look them up if you want to argue about whether the KOL are demon posessed. Frankly, it doesn't really matter to me if you think they are or not. The man of Gadera was posessed but he ran to worship Jesus. What he did was really not that much wierder than what rock and roll musicians do all the time. Running around screaming, tearing their clothes off, destroying hotel rooms, instruments, and writhing around on stage.

[MissBrattified]

Ok Just curious, how do you know your dad wasn't demon posessed at the time he blew smoke in a man of God's face?

Well, I don't know if this is a necessary step, but God filled him with the Holy Ghost at a campmeeting that Roland Baker was preaching back in the 70's, without ever having any demons cast out of him...???? Seems like that would be needed wouldn't it? [TIC]

Come on, JAS...you're reaching really hard on this one. Go back to your original points and defend those, or actually answer my question...Do you believe (or not) that all backsliders are demon-possessed according to the scripture you provided?

Either you believe it or you don't. Should be easy enough to answer. I'm just curious.

I just think it's a weird premise, and I'd like an answer, but of course you're not obligated. :coffee2

[MissBrattified]

No disrespect meant here but you can look them up if you want to argue about whether the KOL are demon posessed. Frankly, it doesn't really matter to me if you think they are or not. The man of Gadera was posessed but he ran to worship Jesus. What he did was really not that much wierder than what rock and roll musicians do all the time. Running around screaming, tearing their clothes off, destroying hotel rooms, instruments, and writhing around on stage.

They may be or they may not be. *shrug* I don't know what it matters in the long run. They're in a lost state regardless, and they need God, just like any other sinner out there.

I'm just interested in an answer to my question. :D

[Just a Shepherd]

Well, I don't know if this is a necessary step, but God filled him with the Holy Ghost at a campmeeting that Roland Baker was preaching back in the 70's, without ever having any demons cast out of him...???? Seems like that would be needed wouldn't it? [TIC]

Come on, JAS...you're reaching really hard on this one. Go back to your original points and defend those, or actually answer my question...Do you believe (or not) that all backsliders are demon-possessed according to the scripture you provided?

Either you believe it or you don't. Should be easy enough to answer. I'm just curious.

I just think it's a weird premise, and I'd like an answer, but of course you're not obligated. :coffee2

No I have never stated that and I don't believe that.

[MissBrattified]

No I have never stated that and I don't believe that.

Okay, then...was that so hard?

The truth is, I think my Daddy was just a plain ol' sinner. He rebelled against his parents and what he had been taught. He made sinful choices that led him deeper and deeper into a sinful life, and he had to go through some really tough stuff before he was willing to make any changes.

I'm not discounting satan's influence...but I do get tired of giving him so much credit. In most cases, we choose sin, and thus give satan more power in our lives, but it was our initial choice and giving that led to that--not satan being able to take anything away from us without our consent.

I guess I just don't see "sinner" and "demon-possessed" as the same thing. There were people in the Bible who did horrific things...but were they possessed of the devil? Or were they being disobedient to God and choosing a sinful path?

I don't believe my father was "possessed" simply because all my sisters and grandparents and my mother were in church (before he was) and never attested to that fact or even implied that it was a remote possibility.... Surely someone might have called attention to it? Or rebuked the devil? :)

I also believe that satan can influence a person without actually controlling them. And I believe a possessed person no longer has control, that satan has full control, and that it will be markedly visible and discernible. In the Bible, it didn't take Jesus' being on the scene to know the man was possessed...everyone already knew--it was obvious. It did take Jesus to deliver him, however.

[Just a Shepherd]

Okay, then...was that so hard?

The truth is, I think my Daddy was just a plain ol' sinner. He rebelled against his parents and what he had been taught. He made sinful choices that led him deeper and deeper into a sinful life, and he had to go through some really tough stuff before he was willing to make any changes.

I'm not discounting satan's influence...but I do get tired of giving him so much credit. In most cases, we choose sin, and thus give satan more power in our lives, but it was our initial choice and giving that led to that--not satan being able to take anything away from us without our consent.

I guess I just don't see "sinner" and "demon-possessed" as the same thing. There were people in the Bible who did horrific things...but were they possessed of the devil? Or were they being disobedient to God and choosing a sinful path?

I don't believe my father was "possessed" simply because all my sisters and grandparents and my mother were in church (before he was) and never attested to that fact or even implied that it was a remote possibility.... Surely someone might have called attention to it? Or rebuked the devil? :)

I also believe that satan can influence a person without actually controlling them. And I believe a possessed person no longer has control, that satan has full control, and that it will be markedly visible and discernible. In the Bible, it didn't take Jesus' being on the scene to know the man was possessed...everyone already knew--it was obvious. It did take Jesus to deliver him, however.

Ok then? What do you mean? I wasn't avoiding your question.

[Just a Shepherd]

I also believe that satan can influence a person without actually controlling them. And I believe a possessed person no longer has control, that satan has full control, and that it will be markedly visible and discernible. In the Bible, it didn't take Jesus' being on the scene to know the man was possessed...everyone already knew--it was obvious. It did take Jesus to deliver him, however.

I agree completely.

[MissBrattified]

Ok then? What do you mean? I wasn't avoiding your question.

That first line was all you could respond to? The rest of my post was so much more substantial...*sigh*

[MissBrattified]

I agree completely.

Oh good. Now I think I'll go to bed, or I'm going to hate myself tomorrow morning!!!!! :winkgrin

[Sherri]

My 18 year old son plays in a "rock" alternative band, but they are all Christians. They feel like they can be a positive influence in a very warped world. He is very devout, would never touch alcohol or drugs and is very adamant and outspoken about his stand on premarital sex. He plays shows, but has not played in places where they serve alcohol. They are not blatantly gospel in their lyrics, but the lyrics are clean. He really feels a call from God to reach into the rough places and be a light. Some of you would probably not agree with this, and I was leery at first, but I have seen the fruit of his life and the teens that he has reached through his witness.

Do I like the music? NOT AT ALL - it's definitely not my style. But then my parents hated my music too. I have put him in the hands of God and now I have to trust him to make his own decisions.

[Michlow]

My 18 year old son plays in a "rock" alternative band, but they are all Christians. They feel like they can be a positive influence in a very warped world. He is very devout, would never touch alcohol or drugs and is very adamant and outspoken about his stand on premarital sex. He plays shows, but has not played in places where they serve alcohol. They are not blatantly gospel in their lyrics, but the lyrics are clean. He really feels a call from God to reach into the rough places and be a light. Some of you would probably not agree with this, and I was leery at first, but I have seen the fruit of his life and the teens that he has reached through his witness.

Do I like the music? NOT AT ALL - it's definitely not my style. But then my parents hated my music too. I have put him in the hands of God and now I have to trust him to make his own decisions.

I love rock music!

Why do people think that a song played on a piano is holy but with an electric guitar is satanic? It's all about content!

[RevDWW]

No disrespect meant here but you can look them up if you want to argue about whether the KOL are demon posessed. Frankly, it doesn't really matter to me if you think they are or not. The man of Gadera was posessed but he ran to worship Jesus. What he did was really not that much wierder than what rock and roll musicians do all the time. Running around screaming, tearing their clothes off, destroying hotel rooms, instruments, and writhing around on stage.

None taken. I don't care to argue. I pray they all get delivered and filled with The Spirit!

[StillStanding]

I've been out of pocket for a few days, but I wanted to comment on this thread. Like Sherri, I know the boy's parents very well.

I hadn't seen Betty Ann in years, and one day she showed up in my store wanted a piano for their new home here in Nashville. We spent a long time just catching up on what had been going on in each of our lives. I was taken back when she started talking about her boys (the oldest was around 12 last I had seen them) and told me they were famous! She told me the name of their group, and of course I'd never heard of them. It turns out they are more famous over in Europe than in the US.

We had Betty Ann and her new husband over to our home for dinner. She brought pictures of her boys, and to me they all looked like Charles Manson! haha! She saw a picture of my daughter, and wanted to introduce her to one of her sons. We smiled, but in our minds, me and Mrs. Pianoman were thinking, "NO WAY!"

To be fair, their mom admits that the boys aren't living right and are smoking lots of pot and such. She has a lot of faith in the youngest son (bass player), to make something of himself after the ride is over. He is putting money aside for college, and wants to become a doctor. She says he is very intelligent.

As a mom, she is proud of their success, but understands what kind of success it is!

[MrsMcD]

My 18 year old son plays in a "rock" alternative band, but they are all Christians. They feel like they can be a positive influence in a very warped world. He is very devout, would never touch alcohol or drugs and is very adamant and outspoken about his stand on premarital sex. He plays shows, but has not played in places where they serve alcohol. They are not blatantly gospel in their lyrics, but the lyrics are clean. He really feels a call from God to reach into the rough places and be a light. Some of you would probably not agree with this, and I was leery at first, but I have seen the fruit of his life and the teens that he has reached through his witness.

Do I like the music? NOT AT ALL - it's definitely not my style. But then my parents hated my music too. I have put him in the hands of God and now I have to trust him to make his own decisions.

Your son will be able to reach people that you or other people can't reach.

[Just a Shepherd]

I've been out of pocket for a few days, but I wanted to comment on this thread. Like Sherri, I know the boy's parents very well.

I hadn't seen Betty Ann in years, and one day she showed up in my store wanted a piano for their new home here in Nashville. We spent a long time just catching up on what had been going on in each of our lives. I was taken back when she started talking about her boys (the oldest was around 12 last I had seen them) and told me they were famous! She told me the name of their group, and of course I'd never heard of them. It turns out they are more famous over in Europe than in the US.

We had Betty Ann and her new husband over to our home for dinner. She brought pictures of her boys, and to me they all looked like Charles Manson! haha! She saw a picture of my daughter, and wanted to introduce her to one of her sons. We smiled, but in our minds, me and Mrs. Pianoman were thinking, "NO WAY!"

To be fair, their mom admits that the boys aren't living right and are smoking lots of pot and such. She has a lot of faith in the youngest son (bass player), to make something of himself after the ride is over. He is putting money aside for college, and wants to become a doctor. She says he is very intelligent.

As a mom, she is proud of their success, but understands what kind of success it is!

Pianoman, the problem as we all know is that he may not get out intact - spritually or otherwise. "Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?"

[StillStanding]

Pianoman, the problem as we all know is that he may not get out intact - spritually or otherwise. "Can a man take fire in his bosom, and his clothes not be burned?"

Oh, I agree! Reality says that he will suffer depression, and turn more and more to drugs. God can work miracles, and her vision would take a miracle!

[ube2kewl]

I haven't read the whole thread, but one of the members was rasied at FPC Jackson, his mom still attends, she is a good friend


Just got through watching the news and saw that on the David Letterman Late Show coming on (now on) the musical guests are "The Kings of Leon".

Some have posted about this group on NFCF and I think here. They are the kids from a family that not only used to be UPC but the father was a UPC pastor.

I don't know the story first hand but have heard that the entire family got out of church about the same time and the kids ended up into rock and roll.

I assume this had to be around ten years or more ago since I moved to Nashville in 1999 and the dad was suppposed to have pastored here and I have never heard of him.

I am guessing it must not have been a very big church or it would have been big news.

Does anyone know the family or the story?

[becky123abc]

I haven't read the whole thread, but one of the members was rasied at FPC Jackson, his mom still attends, she is a good friend

:waving Hey Ube!

[seguidordejesus]

I haven't read the whole thread, but one of the members was rasied at FPC Jackson, his mom still attends, she is a good friend

What's the band member's name? I'm from Jackson.

[CC1]

What's the band member's name? I'm from Jackson.

One of them is Susan Dykes son. I don't know her married name now but that was her name when she was a pretty single blonde when I was in Bible College those many years ago!!!

[seguidordejesus]

One of them is Susan Dykes son. I don't know her married name now but that was her name when she was a pretty single blonde when I was in Bible College those many years ago!!!

Is this a young guy? Maybe you're talking about the lady who married Mike Meadows?

[CC1]

Is this a young guy? Maybe you're talking about the lady who married Mike Meadows?

Definitely not.

[seguidordejesus]

Definitely not.

OK. I wasn't around when you old-timers were in Bible College :)

[CC1]

OK. I wasn't around when you old-timers were in Bible College :)


LOL!!!

I received a PM that says Susan is still very pretty. If she has kept her figure and beauty then she is right there with her old boyfriend from that era, Tony Roberts.

At the 2005 JCM reunion he was the one who looked most like he did 25 years earlier. Just a little grey in the hiar but otherwise looked almost exactly the same.

[ube2kewl]

One of them is Susan Dykes son. I don't know her married name now but that was her name when she was a pretty single blonde when I was in Bible College those many years ago!!!

Matthew Fallwell(sp) is his name, He is the son of Cameron Fallwell and Susan Dyes Pinn. They've been divorced for years. Mike Meadows is married to Susan's siter Dawn.

[rgcraig]

Bump