Pre-Service Prayer in Apostolic Churches?

[theoldpaths]

I was just wondering how many Apostolics in here, in your churches, do you have pre-service prayer that is manditory for the born again saints in your church?

[Mrs. LPW]

How does one make pre-service prayer mandatory for all born again believers?

Our church does have pre-service prayer.

[RandyWayne]

I pray when driving in the car, walking, and even just sitting around. How is this different than pre-service prayer (prayer room)?
(And I cannot concentrate in a prayer room -never could. Too many people trying to be louder than the next person.)

[ReformedDave]

I pray when driving in the car, walking, and even just sitting around. How is this different than pre-service prayer (prayer room)?
(And I cannot concentrate in a prayer room -never could. Too many people trying to be louder than the next person.)

In the prayer room you are seen.........

[theoldpaths]

How does one make pre-service prayer mandatory for all born again believers?

Our church does have pre-service prayer.

Perhaps by teaching that the bible shows the necessity of it; if a saint then still does not obey after being taught the necessity of it, then perhaps it is time for the Pastor to obey what it teaches him to do, when a saint does not obey.

My church does as well.

[theoldpaths]

I pray when driving in the car, walking, and even just sitting around. How is this different than pre-service prayer (prayer room)?
(And I cannot concentrate in a prayer room -never could. Too many people trying to be louder than the next person.)

Does that mean then that your church does NOT have manditory pre-service prayer?

[Mrs. LPW]

Perhaps by teaching that the bible shows the necessity of it; if a saint then still does not obey after being taught the necessity of it, then perhaps it is time for the Pastor to obey what it teaches him to do, when a saint does not obey.My church does as well.

I don't think I'll ask.

[AmazingGrace]

We do not have a pastor who CONTROLS his church as in forces something... God however has blessed us with a church that is full of prayer... we do have many many many in pre service prayer... The staff is required to pray before service.. actually as you walk in the door you can see them in the conference room all gathered around the pastor in prayer... the choir in another room in prayer... the youth in another room in prayer.. the little kids in another room in prayer... more often than not our youth pre service prayer turns into prayer meetings that last till 9 or 10 at night with youth slain in the spirit all over the place and them leaving so drunk they cant walk.... But mandatory... no but we love to pray!!!!!

[RandyWayne]

Does that mean then that your church does NOT have manditory pre-service prayer?

We're still looking for a church in our area, but responding to the spirit of the question, no, I have never been to a church where it was mandatory. We always had one -but it was not mandatory.

[Jermyn Davidson]

I pray when driving in the car, walking, and even just sitting around. How is this different than pre-service prayer (prayer room)?
(And I cannot concentrate in a prayer room -never could. Too many people trying to be louder than the next person.)

dude, you are so carnal :)

[Mrs. LPW]

We do not have a pastor who CONTROLS his church as in forces something... God however has blessed us with a church that is full of prayer... we do have many many many in pre service prayer... The staff is required to pray before service.. actually as you walk in the door you can see them in the conference room all gathered around the pastor in prayer... the choir in another room in prayer... the youth in another room in prayer.. the little kids in another room in prayer... more often than not our youth pre service prayer turns into prayer meetings that last till 9 or 10 at night with youth slain in the spirit all over the place and them leaving so drunk they cant walk.... But mandatory... no but we love to pray!!!!!

Great Post AG.

I like to watch our choir gather together in the corner and pray together before going on the platform (after the pre-service prayer)

[RandyWayne]

dude, you are so carnal :)

Honestly, I have a problem with the whole concept of a prayer room, unless it is for individuals only.
My experience has shown that they ALWAYS attract guys (or gals, but mainly guys) who are trying to outdo each other and appear to be the most spiritual one in the room.
And the whole thing is just too distracting.

[AmazingGrace]

Thats one thing about our church too... we have to just kneel at our pew or find a classroom thats not in use or something... cuz we dont have room for everyone to sit in church nor a prayer room big enough for everyone.. I do think the new building includes some but for now... pray where you be or find a spot lol... thats what happens when you grow! Gotta have prayer to grow.. we are a growin and prayin.. just need more room for both Praise God!

[AmazingGrace]

Great Post AG.

I like to watch our choir gather together in the corner and pray together before going on the platform (after the pre-service prayer)

Me too... where we moved here from thats how it was done.. now we are literally so tight on room.. they go pray somewhere and then come straight from there to the platform. But you can definitely tell they have prayed!

[Jermyn Davidson]

How does one make pre-service prayer mandatory for all born again believers?

Our church does have pre-service prayer.


Generally, if one was to be on the plattform for praise and worship, choir, or ministering, it was indeed mandatory or very much expected for you to be in the prayer room before that service.

My church in AL was a bit lax with that, but the element of expectation was still there.

I see nothing wrong with making this a rule-- I see everything right with it.

[OnTheFritz]

I don't think I'll ask.

Not the "half-nelson-force-'em-prayer-choke-hold", I hope. :club

[Mrs. LPW]

Honestly, I have a problem with the whole concept of a prayer room, unless it is for individuals only.
My experience has shown that they ALWAYS attract guys (or gals, but mainly guys) who are trying to outdo each other and appear to be the most spiritual one in the room.
And the whole thing is just too distracting.


I have never experienced that, and have been a member of a few different churches now.
Are you certain that is what those people were doing? Trying to act more spiritual that each other?
And if they were, is that a good reason for you to abandon corporate prayer in your church with fellow believers? Where two or three agree, as touching any one thing... They were all in one accord, in one place...

Not meaning this post in any other way than just... don't shortchange yourself. There is power in a group gathering to pray.

[AmazingGrace]

Generally, if one was to be on the plattform for praise and worship, choir, or ministering, it was indeed mandatory or very much expected for you to be in the prayer room before that service.

My church in AL was a bit lax with that, but the element of expectation was still there.

I see nothing wrong with making this a rule-- I see everything right with it.

I totally agree and I hope by my first post no one thought I didnt mean I do not think its necessary for it to be mandatory for music / staff/ so on... but I am just saying I do not know how you can make it mandatory for every one in your church... It should be a given and I seem to see it as such with each individual in our church....

[MawMaw]

We have always had prayer before every service. Those wo are able to get to church early usually go to any area they choose to kneel or stand...and pray. I'm like Randy Wayne in that I pray on my way to church most times, if I know I won't be able to get to church early enough.

But being mandatory? It's not at our church, but then again no one has to be begged to pray before each service. It's just something we gladly do. :)

[Mrs. LPW]

Generally, if one was to be on the plattform for praise and worship, choir, or ministering, it was indeed mandatory or very much expected for you to be in the prayer room before that service.

My church in AL was a bit lax with that, but the element of expectation was still there.

I see nothing wrong with making this a rule-- I see everything right with it.

Makes perfect sense... I agree. We have similar "rules" for those ministering in leading the service as well...

However, currently as a mom to two, under two... I can't get to pre-service prayer each week. My son actually disrupts it quite badly... I wouldn't dream of trying to keep him in there at this age... it's enough teaching him to be quiet during service. He'll learn eventually, (and so will my baby)... and then we will be there.
I just found it strange the way the original post was worded (and subsequent post as well)
Mandatory for all born again believers... and if you don't, you are dealt with?

Anyway, I have no desire for an argument... just don't quite understand that.
I think AG has said it best for me.

[RandyWayne]

I have never experienced that, and have been a member of a few different churches now.
Are you certain that is what those people were doing? Trying to act more spiritual that each other?
And if they were, is that a good reason for you to abandon corporate prayer in your church with fellow believers? Where two or three agree, as touching any one thing... They were all in one accord, in one place...

Not meaning this post in any other way than just... don't shortchange yourself. There is power in a group gathering to pray.

I've always assumed that just being in the same building was good enough.

[theoldpaths]

In the OT, the high priest could only enter the holy of holies once a year, but had to follow certain steps before doing so such as (may get some of these wrong or in the wrong order or may forget some)...

- sacrificing at the brazen altar (type of repentance and/or crucifying the flesh)
- washing at the brazen laver (type of baptism)
- burning incense at the golden candlestick before the veil (type of offering up praise - i.e., worship)

The point was that he HAD to do these things BEFORE he was ready to enter into the presence of God and HEAR from God's word.

Sometimes apostolics ask, why do we do the things in a church service that we do? Is it just tradition or is there a bible example?

Pre-service prayer is like crucifying the flesh and getting the flesh under subjection. My personal experience is that when I go to pre-service prayer, I find it easier in the service. During worship my flesh does not feel so heavy and worship is easier and I also get more out of the preaching of the word of God. Also the word of God teaches us that no flesh shall glory in his presence. The flesh and Spirit war against each other, but by prayer we give the Spirit the upper hand.

Worship is like offering up the incense which was another step that had to be done BEFORE being ready to hear the word of God.

We are priests now in the NT.

[Mrs. LPW]

I've always assumed that just being in the same building was good enough.

:D

[Mrs. LPW]

Pre-service prayer is like crucifying the flesh and getting the flesh under subjection. My personal experience is that when I go to pre-service prayer, I find it easier in the service. During worship my flesh does not feel so heavy and worship is easier and I also get more out of the preaching of the word of God. Also the word of God teaches us that no flesh shall glory in his presence. The flesh and Spirit war against each other, but by prayer we give the Spirit the upper hand.

.


I feel the same. Pre-service prayer can lift the level of a service.

[Carpenter]

In the OT, the high priest could only enter the holy of holies once a year, but had to follow certain steps before doing so such as (may get some of these wrong or in the wrong order or may forget some)...

- sacrificing at the brazen altar (type of repentance and/or crucifying the flesh)
- washing at the brazen laver (type of baptism)
- burning incense at the golden candlestick before the veil (type of offering up praise - i.e., worship)

The point was that he HAD to do these things BEFORE he was ready to enter into the presence of God and HEAR from God's word.

Sometimes apostolics ask, why do we do the things in a church service that we do? Is it just tradition or is there a bible example?

Pre-service prayer is like crucifying the flesh and getting the flesh under subjection. My personal experience is that when I go to pre-service prayer, I find it easier in the service. During worship my flesh does not feel so heavy and worship is easier and I also get more out of the preaching of the word of God. Also the word of God teaches us that no flesh shall glory in his presence. The flesh and Spirit war against each other, but by prayer we give the Spirit the upper hand.

Worship is like offering up the incense which was another step that had to be done BEFORE being ready to hear the word of God.

We are priests now in the NT.

This is all fine and good if it wasn't as someone said earlier, a contest of who can be the loudest, who can rebuke the debbil the strongest, and who can bind and release, and move and shake, etc.

How do I know this? Because I used to be a thoroughbred in that category.

I agree it purges all thoughts and carnality, especially arriving on time to prayer when the Broncos lose.

Another thing, mandatory? No it is another one of those things mentioned from the pulpit that if you do not participate you are cold and dead and on your way to being lost, same with tithing, being there on church work day, and singing in the choir.

[Cindy]

If pre-service prayer is mandatory, what happens if you can't make it? You're not allowed in the service?

[Cindy]

We do have prayer meeting on Wednesday nights, before our regular services.

http://www.mynewlifechurch.net/

[Carpenter]

If pre-service prayer is mandatory, what happens if you can't make it? You're not allowed in the service?

...then you need to run the isles, shout harder and louder in the service to excize all those evil outside and wordly influences.


:D

[pelathais]

I was just wondering how many Apostolics in here, in your churches, do you have pre-service prayer that is manditory for the born again saints in your church?
We do, and it is mandatory. Anyone who doesn't pray in the prayer room waving a hanky before service gets their "born again saint" status revoked and has to pray in the altar after service. Sort of like a detention.

[Moe]

I was just wondering how many Apostolics in here, in your churches, do you have pre-service prayer that is manditory for the born again saints in your church?


TOP......I think something wonderful happens in a church body when members come together in one room, in one accord and pray. The power of God comes down like in no other setting. Show me someone that mocks or resist scheduled prayer and I'll show you someone that is not consistant in their prayer life. yes, we ALL pray going down the street, in a car at home on the job, etc. but IMHO it cannot replace what happens when we come together. If I had the time or the space and could tell you of things that has happened in prayer, in the prayer room, or at the church or at someones home or in our church prayer "Fire Houses", it would cause you to want to experience the Glory of God.

When we pray together and miracles happen....no one person gets the glory. God gets it. It is so easy to say "I" when we recount miracles.

How I wish more pastor's would insist on pre-service prayer. I do not think you can or should call it mandantory as it takes something away from us all when we are forced to do anything. But if any pastor or ministry would make each prayer meeting exciting and a place that entertains the Holy Ghost then you will NEVER have to make it mandantory. they will come. they will bring their neighbor (who would not usually step foot in your church) just to pray. The young people will once again get on fire for God. Miracles will happen. Marriages will be put back together. Alters will be filled. All because people prayed.

Of course I do not have to mention of all the biblical miracles that took place when "people" (plural) prayed. But then I have seen the miraculous with only 1 praying but for the most part "people" need each other to be and stay encouraged.

I started out as a young person praying every morning at the church at 5:00 a.m. before going to school along with my family and the rest of the church. This is what gave me my prayer foundation that kept me when my world crumbled. I thank God every day for meeting with me and for my pastor who encouraged us to pray by his example.

[Moe]

This is all fine and good if it wasn't as someone said earlier, a contest of who can be the loudest, who can rebuke the debbil the strongest, and who can bind and release, and move and shake, etc.

How do I know this? Because I used to be a thoroughbred in that category.

I agree it purges all thoughts and carnality, especially arriving on time to prayer when the Broncos lose.

Another thing, mandatory? No it is another one of those things mentioned from the pulpit that if you do not participate you are cold and dead and on your way to being lost, same with tithing, being there on church work day, and singing in the choir.


Is is just me or has anyone noticed that more and more people war against any kind of rules. is it just a spirit of our day or what? examples, school kids, parents and kids against teacher rules. Church members against any rules, Nation against conservative rule, kids against parents rule, wives against husband rule (of any kind) worker against any corporate rule.

Not trying to stir the pot just seeing a very disturbing trend that is not letting up. Where will that leave my grandchildren. To me it just a strong foothold for the enemy. But then, who am I?

[Praxeas]

Perhaps by teaching that the bible shows the necessity of it; if a saint then still does not obey after being taught the necessity of it, then perhaps it is time for the Pastor to obey what it teaches him to do, when a saint does not obey.

My church does as well.
The necessity of pre-service prayer? Where in the bible does it show that? Teach the necessity of prayer? Sure, but you are talking about legislating something that the bible does not mention being mandatory....that is praying before a service...just before a service AT the church building grounds...not in the car..not at home...not earlier in the day.

[Rhoni]

I was just wondering how many Apostolics in here, in your churches, do you have pre-service prayer that is manditory for the born again saints in your church?

We have intercessory prayer before our Main Sunday service. Not everyone comes but those who do touch the throne of God. I just love pre-service prayer.

Blessings, Rhoni

[OneAccord]

I don't believe in "mandatory" pre-service prayer. We serve God out of a willing heart. When "things" are made to be "madatory", whether it be prayer or giving... it comes a ritual void of power. I do believe we should enter a worship service prayerfully but to "mandate" a time of prayer is a vain attempt to force spirituality. Prayer, like everything else we give to God, should be offered out of willingness and a desire to please God. We serve God because we love Him, not because we are "required" to serve Him.

[Monkeyman]

I believe in "Mandatory Prayer" before service.....for my choir and musicians, yup I sure do!!!! Wanna fight???? *I might need to pray right now:)*

[rgcraig]

Just as affective as prayer before service is to have a "prayful" atmosphere in the auditorium before service.

Dimmly lit lights, soft music and hushed talking. Those that want to pray in there can or just sit and gather your thoughts and focus on the service that is about to start.

One thing that I HATE is walking into a service and the whole place sounds and looks like a convention. Laughing, kids running around, talking about any and everything!

Sometime walk in your service and pretend you know no one and are a visitor and see how YOU would feel.

[mizpeh]

Just as affective as prayer before service is to have a "prayful" atmosphere in the auditorium before service.

Dimmly lit lights, soft music and hushed talking. Those that want to pray in there can or just sit and gather your thoughts and focus on the service that is about to start.

One thing that I HATE is walking into a service and the whole place sounds and looks like a convention. Laughing, kids running around, talking about any and everything!

Sometime walk in your service and pretend you know no one and are a visitor and see how YOU would feel.

So do you think the sanctuary should be just that, a sanctuary, and all the fellowship between the saints (chitchat) should be done outside the sanctuary?

[rgcraig]

So do you think the sanctuary should be just that, a sanctuary, and all the fellowship between the saints (chitchat) should be done outside the sanctuary?

I honestly do.

I've only attended ONE church that was like that and it was so refreshing. You could talk all you wanted to out in the foyer, but once you entered the sanctuary it was respected as that.

[nahkoe]

We don't have pre service prayer. And mandatory? No, it wouldn't be if we did have it.

[Mrs. LPW]

I agree Renda, when you spend time in prayer, or reflecting on the Lord just before a service starts, you are that much more ready to enter in.

I think pre-service prayer is wonderful, and I would encourage all churches to have it.
(along with other prayer meetings)

[MrsMcD]

I was just wondering how many Apostolics in here, in your churches, do you have pre-service prayer that is manditory for the born again saints in your church?

Not mandatory but we have pre-service prayer.

[BHILL]

Perhaps by teaching that the bible shows the necessity of it; if a saint then still does not obey after being taught the necessity of it, then perhaps it is time for the Pastor to obey what it teaches him to do, when a saint does not obey.

My church does as well.

What does your Pastor do if your a saint who can't make it early for prayer? Ground you? I don't remember anything in the NT church about prayer before church.It would be hard to attend a church where the pastor keeps track of which saints come early to pray and which ones don't.

[pelathais]

Is is just me or has anyone noticed that more and more people war against any kind of rules. is it just a spirit of our day or what? examples, school kids, parents and kids against teacher rules. Church members against any rules, Nation against conservative rule, kids against parents rule, wives against husband rule (of any kind) worker against any corporate rule.

Not trying to stir the pot just seeing a very disturbing trend that is not letting up. Where will that leave my grandchildren. To me it just a strong foothold for the enemy. But then, who am I?
Really, who are you? http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

You appear to be in rebellion yourself; rebellion against those with whom you may disagree. This is a disturbing trend and I suggest you get in line before it's too late! http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Frankly, I have trouble with "rules" when it comes to things of the Spirit. I seek God in a fashion that satisfies my Spirit and enables me to be a conduit to encourage others (apart from my theraputic grousing on AFF!http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon7.gif).

Do you have "rules" that state people are supposed to "worship?" Rules for raising of hands and rules for how the hands are to be raised? I've actually run into folks that will rebuke newcomers for not turning their palms in the correct direction.

I attended a church that had a stolen traffic sign directing people which way to run - a "One Way" sign. This may have been a good "rule" because things did get a bit congested in that corner. But some folks there really enjoyed making up other rules as well. And when they got tired of all the rules, then they just threw their hands up in the air and said "Anything goes..."

It gets a bit wearisome riding other people's emotional roller coaster up and and down. How about just encouraging people to pray? How about just making a comfortable and well ventilated room available and setting a good example by being open and inviting?

Most people who tend to come to a church are seeking something in the way of the supernatural and most of them are inclined to seek that through prayer. Why do you need a "rule" to tell people to do what they showed up to do in the first place?

[Monkeyman]

Just as affective as prayer before service is to have a "prayful" atmosphere in the auditorium before service.

Dimmly lit lights, soft music and hushed talking. Those that want to pray in there can or just sit and gather your thoughts and focus on the service that is about to start.

One thing that I HATE is walking into a service and the whole place sounds and looks like a convention. Laughing, kids running around, talking about any and everything!

Sometime walk in your service and pretend you know no one and are a visitor and see how YOU would feel.You just described my church:)

[pelathais]

If pre-service prayer is mandatory, what happens if you can't make it? You're not allowed in the service?
How being forced to "run a lap" during the song service.

I heard of one preacher who used to point people out and tell them to "take a lap" if they weren't worshipping with the appropriate levels of enthusiasm. It sounded like my High School football coach. If you did something wrong you had to "take a lap."

That's one problem with silly rules. You end up with silly punishments for breaking those rules.

[Sister Alvear]

mandatory ????????????
No... however we pray but no one signs books and stuff like that...if signing a book or mandatory prayer is the law then I would say little is from the heart...(just my opinion)

[Sister Alvear]

You cannot force people to pray...you invite them to pray...

[mizpeh]

I honestly do.

I've only attended ONE church that was like that and it was so refreshing. You could talk all you wanted to out in the foyer, but once you entered the sanctuary it was respected as that.

I agree. It creates an atmosphere condusive to worshipping God.

BTW, all of the Catholic churches I have been to and grew up in are like that! :tease

[Sister Alvear]

I love to pray and walk around praying a giving a hug to those that a hurting...but to force someone to pray sounds almost a Hitler type thing to me...
Prayer must come from the heart...I have been in churches that prayer was more a show than a biblical prayer.

[Sister Alvear]

We must learn the flow of the spirit and how to follow the flow...(Does that make sense?)

[pelathais]

I love to pray and walk around praying a giving a hug to those that a hurting...but to force someone to pray sounds almost a Hitler type thing to me...
Prayer must come from the heart...I have been in churches that prayer was more a show than a biblical prayer.
That's a constant problem that I've run into. To be honest, it really makes it hard to pray when you've got someone going around scolding people for not being as "spiritual" as they are.

[Sassy]

Our pastor encourages us to attend pre-service prayer. It really does help create an atmosphere for the service. Alot of us come in with our mind on our jobs and problems in life, and when you pray...it helps get your thoughts on God and leave everything outside. If not...some it takes all of song service and part of preaching to get their thoughts together. As for being mandatory...it is highly appreciated...my pastor says it helps him...that we are pulling together for the service. But if you are part of the service...song leader, praise singer...he ask that you be there for prayer.

[Sister Alvear]

We have been having prayer all night every Friday night for those that can come...I told them IF they can come the church will be open...we have anywhere from 50-80 people praying...They can leave whenever and those that do not live close I fixed a place for them to stay when they get tired. Some pray the full time others pray a while and go rest as they work on Saturday. I usually stay the full time but a couple times returned early as I had such a heavy schedule on Saturday.

One of our sisters has been praying for her natural sister that was into drugs and very steeped in sin...last Sunday her sister came to church and said she wanted to be a christian...
God answers prayers...

[Mrs. LPW]

You just described my church:)

Except for that one sister... ooops.. I better zip it before I get in trouble.
But there is always a few who can't seem to read the writing on the big screens that say 'shut up people are praying'... lol

[Sister Alvear]

We work under very difficult circumstances and our people as a whole are bused in because they do not own cars. However we that live close many of us are praying before the service...

[rgcraig]

You just described my church:)

Which paragraph - one or two?

Never mind - reading Mrs. LPW's post cleared that up for me!

[rgcraig]

I agree. It creates an atmosphere condusive to worshipping God.

BTW, all of the Catholic churches I have been to and grew up in are like that! :tease

LOL - - I believe it's called respect.

[LadyChocolate]

Just as affective as prayer before service is to have a "prayful" atmosphere in the auditorium before service.

Dimmly lit lights, soft music and hushed talking. Those that want to pray in there can or just sit and gather your thoughts and focus on the service that is about to start.

One thing that I HATE is walking into a service and the whole place sounds and looks like a convention. Laughing, kids running around, talking about any and everything!

Sometime walk in your service and pretend you know no one and are a visitor and see how YOU would feel.

I agree with you! I haven't read all the posts so I might repeat someone here... BUT, I believe there should be prayer before every service. Calling on God, praying for the lost, hurting, bound, depressed and so on is detrimental. It's God's anointing that will break the chains that have people bound and the saints of God need to see that need. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (Ja 5 16) Without the saints of God praying for the needs that will be in that service, then people just might not get what they need from God.

Saints also need to sensitive to God by not talking to others and not letting their children run around and play... IMO, you can go outside or in the foyer and talk. Sometimes I think when we've been in church for a while, we forget our desperation, our hunger for God.

And this is another reason I like prayer rooms. As where I think we should be reverent in the sanctuary, visitors may not understand the excitement of prayer and it might make them feel uncomfy...... As where if your church is able to go to prayer rooms, one can pray how they like to pray and the visitor will still feel the incredible, wonderful spirit of God!

[Sister Alvear]

ditto....

[Tina]

You cannot force people to pray...you invite them to pray...

Exactly.

Our church has pre-service prayer.... not mandatory, but expected-- especially of leadership and those who are on the platform during service.

We also have prayer meeting on Tuesday nights... The sad thing is that out of a church that runs about 160-180 on Sundays.. there are rarely more than 25 of us who show up regularly for prayer meetings.

I've heard my pastor say that he often wonders what kind of prayer life people have if they can't show up for prayer meeting....

[berkeley]

Guys... I'm with Renda on this one.

ohhh the difference it makes in a service. But, I guess if you're used to a baptist church and don't expect nothin to happen... well...

[Whole Hearted]

WE always have preservice prayer. Some pry in the sanctuary and some in the fellowship hall or a class room. But prayer is very much encouraged before every service.


If not many come early to pray then when service started prayer request will be read and everyone will be asked to find a place to pray and then we will go on with service.

[StillStanding]

Mandatory pre-service prayer?

I would think that most Apostolic churches have their prayer rooms open and folks are encouraged to pray before service, but mandatory?

The only thing mandatory about it, is if you may be seeking affirmation from the pastor.

[Cindy]

Is is just me or has anyone noticed that more and more people war against any kind of rules. is it just a spirit of our day or what? examples, school kids, parents and kids against teacher rules. Church members against any rules, Nation against conservative rule, kids against parents rule, wives against husband rule (of any kind) worker against any corporate rule.

Not trying to stir the pot just seeing a very disturbing trend that is not letting up. Where will that leave my grandchildren. To me it just a strong foothold for the enemy. But then, who am I?

Yes I agree, that there is a mindset among many that, you can't tell me what to do, you are not my boss. My youngest child tried that against the school bus driver when she was about 5 years old. She told her that, you can't tell me what to do, you're not my mama. Needlesss to say mama set her straight. And I also taught her that she would respect those in authority and the people that looked out for her safety. Be it parents, school bus drivers, teachers, police officers, etc. And when she got older that included her Sunday School teacher and Pastor.

[Tim Rutledge]

I was just wondering how many Apostolics in here, in your churches, do you have pre-service prayer that is manditory for the born again saints in your church?

Yes.. At our Church it suppose to be manditory if your being used.

[rgcraig]

Yes.. At our Church it suppose to be manditory if your being used.

Wouldn't it sound better if it was required instead of manditory?

[berkeley]

Wouldn't it sound better if it was required instead of manditory?

...same thing

[Ferd]

We have prayer before sunday school. it started as strong recomendation for teachers, but has really become much more than that.

the new church we are building is going to have an awesome prayer room. I cant wait to get it done!


***edited****
the words "strong recomendation" replaced "requirement" as this is more accurate.

how do yo "require" people in a church were participation is actually volentary?

[Ron]

One hour before every service is what I was trained.
Almost twenty years now!

[StillStanding]

Yes.. At our Church it suppose to be manditory if your being used.
In other words, you must be seen in the prayer room before church before you are considered to be used in any way as a volunteer. It's all about appearances! Look as I tell you and be where I tell you.

[Sassy]

In other words, you must be seen in the prayer room before church before you are considered to be used in any way as a volunteer. It's all about appearances! Look as I tell you and be where I tell you.

Pastor can only hope they're praying........if they are doing it for appearances sake...that is between them and God.

[Cindy]

Sometimes I would sit quietly reading my bible as well as praying.

[Ferd]

In other words, you must be seen in the prayer room before church before you are considered to be used in any way as a volunteer. It's all about appearances! Look as I tell you and be where I tell you.

We actaully make everyone bring a recorder to pray into. the pastor reviews the recordings later in the week to insure everyone was actually praying.

[berkeley]

We actaully make everyone bring a recorder to pray into. the pastor reviews the recordings later in the week to insure everyone was actually praying.

:ursofunny

[Sassy]

Sometimes I would sit quietly reading my bible as well as praying.

See...everyone has a way of getting their thoughts ready for service....it all works....

The Pastor has to encourage people to pray before service because some only do the minimum. And at times that can be no prayer in their life at all.

[Mrs. LPW]

In other words, you must be seen in the prayer room before church before you are considered to be used in any way as a volunteer. It's all about appearances! Look as I tell you and be where I tell you.

:snapout

:tease

[Ron]

The Young Ladies at our Church were always told by the Pastor that if they were interested in a mate, look who's in the Prayer Room!

[Sassy]

We actaully make everyone bring a recorder to pray into. the pastor reviews the recordings later in the week to insure everyone was actually praying.


:ursofunny :ursofunny That would be a HOOT!!

[Mrs. LPW]

LOL - - I believe it's called respect.

What a crazy idea... respect... :crazy

I prefer to do my socializing after church myself. Well, I used to, until I had the two anklebiters to chase around after service. But it's wonderful to see the prayer beforehand, the moving of God during, and then the fellowship afterward. It's all good!

[StillStanding]

:snapout:ursofunny
Don't get me wrong. I believe in spending time in prayer before each service.

When it become "mandatory", I think sometimes people may go through the motions to get approval. I know there were times that I did years ago! :)

One service I had a couple come to Sunday night service that I invited. I went to where they were sitting to welcome them and make them feel comfortable. Suddenly, I realized that I wasn't in the prayer room where I was expected to be. I had to excuse myself and go to the prayer room in case the pastor noticed that I wasn't there!

[StillStanding]

Another time, I went to the prayer room before service to be seen by the pastor. My wife and I had an argument right before church and I was really mad! I remember putting my head down and not saying a thing (only thinking about how mad I was!) and saying "Thank you , Jesus!" every minute or so, so other people wouldn't think I wasn't praying! :ursofunny

[Mrs. LPW]

:ursofunny
Don't get me wrong. I believe in spending time in prayer before each service.

When it become "mandatory", I think sometimes people may go through the motions to get approval. I know there were times that I did years ago! :)

One service I had a couple come to Sunday night service that I invited. I went to where they were sitting to welcome them and make them feel comfortable. Suddenly, I realized that I wasn't in the prayer room where I was expected to be. I had to excuse myself and go to the prayer room in case the pastor noticed that I wasn't there!

I would think your pastor would understand that. When we have new people, we don't leave them alone to go pray.

I think there will always be people who only show up at prayer because they have to, and kneel and mumble to themselves or sleep the whole time. But that is (as someone said before) between them and the Lord.

The pastors job is to try to keep things spiritually minded for the service ahead... so it makes sense he would want his leadership in prayer beforehand.

I like Ferds idea of a recorder... capture some of those Zzzzzzz's. lol

[Mrs. LPW]

Another time, I went to the prayer room before service to be seen by the pastor. My wife and I had an argument right before church and I was really mad! I remember putting my head down and not saying a thing (only thinking about how mad I was!) and saying "Thank you , Jesus!" every minute or so, so other people wouldn't think I wasn't praying! :ursofunny

I think we've all had carnal moments.

[StillStanding]

I would think your pastor would understand that. When we have new people, we don't leave them alone to go pray.

I think there will always be people who only show up at prayer because they have to, and kneel and mumble to themselves or sleep the whole time. But that is (as someone said before) between them and the Lord.

The pastors job is to try to keep things spiritually minded for the service ahead... so it makes sense he would want his leadership in prayer beforehand.

I like Ferds idea of a recorder... capture some of those Zzzzzzz's. lol
There were many Sundays that I would have been in serious trouble had a recorder been used! :ursofunny

[DividedThigh]

we have pre service prayer , it is encouraged, only mandatory or suggested strongly for the leadership, dt

[Ferd]

We have the young people transcribe the really good prayers.

[berkeley]

We have the young people transcribe the really good prayers.

They write in tongues? :ursofunny

[Ferd]

They write in tongues? :ursofunny
LOL!

[Sassy]

I would think your pastor would understand that. When we have new people, we don't leave them alone to go pray.

I think there will always be people who only show up at prayer because they have to, and kneel and mumble to themselves or sleep the whole time. But that is (as someone said before) between them and the Lord.

The pastors job is to try to keep things spiritually minded for the service ahead... so it makes sense he would want his leadership in prayer beforehand.
I like Ferds idea of a recorder... capture some of those Zzzzzzz's. lol

:nod Yup!

[Moe]

Yes I agree, that there is a mindset among many that, you can't tell me what to do, you are not my boss. My youngest child tried that against the school bus driver when she was about 5 years old. She told her that, you can't tell me what to do, you're not my mama. Needlesss to say mama set her straight. And I also taught her that she would respect those in authority and the people that looked out for her safety. Be it parents, school bus drivers, teachers, police officers, etc. And when she got older that included her Sunday School teacher and Pastor.

Thankyou!!!! kuddo's to you. There are not to many momma's like you left in this world. My mom was the same way.

[Praxeas]

One hour before every service is what I was trained.
Almost twenty years now!
What if someone prayed 2 hours before service for an hour then came to church when it started? Would the church meeting be less "powerful"?

[Rico]

I've seen pre-service prayer meeting turn into a chest beating contest among men entirely too many times. Brother So and So gets a little loud and then Brother Whathisface decides to pray louder. Soon it turns into a shouting match and everyone walks away feeling like they've "touched God". Yeah right! No thanks! I tried the prayer rooms and found that praying at my pew was much better. I don't come to church to compete with anyone on getting in touch with the Lord.

[berkeley]

I've seen pre-service prayer meeting turn into a chest beating contest among men entirely too many times. Brother So and So gets a little loud and then Brother Whathisface decides to pray louder. Soon it turns into a shouting match and everyone walks away feeling like they've "touched God". Yeah right! No thanks! I tried the prayer rooms and found that praying at my pew was much better. I don't come to church to compete with anyone on getting in touch with the Lord.

But you have to show God that you are serious! (TIC)

Hey, I don't like when they stand and clap.. and chant "Jesus.. Jesus"

[Rico]

In the OT, the high priest could only enter the holy of holies once a year, but had to follow certain steps before doing so such as (may get some of these wrong or in the wrong order or may forget some)...

- sacrificing at the brazen altar (type of repentance and/or crucifying the flesh)
- washing at the brazen laver (type of baptism)
- burning incense at the golden candlestick before the veil (type of offering up praise - i.e., worship)

The point was that he HAD to do these things BEFORE he was ready to enter into the presence of God and HEAR from God's word.

Sometimes apostolics ask, why do we do the things in a church service that we do? Is it just tradition or is there a bible example?

Pre-service prayer is like crucifying the flesh and getting the flesh under subjection. My personal experience is that when I go to pre-service prayer, I find it easier in the service. During worship my flesh does not feel so heavy and worship is easier and I also get more out of the preaching of the word of God. Also the word of God teaches us that no flesh shall glory in his presence. The flesh and Spirit war against each other, but by prayer we give the Spirit the upper hand.

Worship is like offering up the incense which was another step that had to be done BEFORE being ready to hear the word of God.

We are priests now in the NT.

If you wait until you get to church to crucify your flesh and get your flesh under subjection, you are completely wasting your time.

[Rhoni]

Just as affective as prayer before service is to have a "prayful" atmosphere in the auditorium before service.

Dimmly lit lights, soft music and hushed talking. Those that want to pray in there can or just sit and gather your thoughts and focus on the service that is about to start.

One thing that I HATE is walking into a service and the whole place sounds and looks like a convention. Laughing, kids running around, talking about any and everything!

Sometime walk in your service and pretend you know no one and are a visitor and see how YOU would feel.

Renda,

I agree with you. I enjoy walking into the sanctuary before church to prayer and setting the mood for the service with worship and praise. I have been in services that began with prayer 30 minutes before church in the sanctuary and it was so good it just kept right on going through the service.

I am a bit Bapticostal in my thinking we should enter into the sanctuary with respect and awe and the less commotion the better.

Blessigns, Rhoni

[Rico]

Just as affective as prayer before service is to have a "prayful" atmosphere in the auditorium before service.

Dimmly lit lights, soft music and hushed talking. Those that want to pray in there can or just sit and gather your thoughts and focus on the service that is about to start.

One thing that I HATE is walking into a service and the whole place sounds and looks like a convention. Laughing, kids running around, talking about any and everything!

Sometime walk in your service and pretend you know no one and are a visitor and see how YOU would feel.

People don't know the meaning of "reverance in the sanctuary" or they wouldn't use pre-service time for gossipping and letting their children run wild.

[Mrs. LPW]

I've seen pre-service prayer meeting turn into a chest beating contest among men entirely too many times. Brother So and So gets a little loud and then Brother Whathisface decides to pray louder. Soon it turns into a shouting match and everyone walks away feeling like they've "touched God". Yeah right! No thanks! I tried the prayer rooms and found that praying at my pew was much better. I don't come to church to compete with anyone on getting in touch with the Lord.

I seriously don't get this at all... I have never seen this in my entire life. I've heard loud people, who have little to say, but I've never in my entire life seen a contest... and like I said, I've been in many churches.

You Americans... :crazy











:tease





That said, you don't throw out the baby, because the bathwater is dirty.

[Rhoni]

If you wait until you get to church to crucify your flesh and get your flesh under subjection, you are completely wasting your time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theoldpaths http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/tulip/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=550484#post550484)
In the OT, the high priest could only enter the holy of holies once a year, but had to follow certain steps before doing so such as (may get some of these wrong or in the wrong order or may forget some)...

- sacrificing at the brazen altar (type of repentance and/or crucifying the flesh)
- washing at the brazen laver (type of baptism)
- burning incense at the golden candlestick before the veil (type of offering up praise - i.e., worship)

The point was that he HAD to do these things BEFORE he was ready to enter into the presence of God and HEAR from God's word.

Sometimes apostolics ask, why do we do the things in a church service that we do? Is it just tradition or is there a bible example?

Pre-service prayer is like crucifying the flesh and getting the flesh under subjection. My personal experience is that when I go to pre-service prayer, I find it easier in the service. During worship my flesh does not feel so heavy and worship is easier and I also get more out of the preaching of the word of God. Also the word of God teaches us that no flesh shall glory in his presence. The flesh and Spirit war against each other, but by prayer we give the Spirit the upper hand.

Worship is like offering up the incense which was another step that had to be done BEFORE being ready to hear the word of God.

We are priests now in the NT.



Rico,

I think I will have to agree with Old Paths on this one: I think we need to come into God's presence with thanks and praise, then repent and cleanse our hearts and minds, wash them through regeneration of the Spirit to allow us to usher in His holy presence and allow Him to have His way in the service.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Rico]

I seriously don't get this at all... I have never seen this in my entire life. I've heard loud people, who have little to say, but I've never in my entire life seen a contest... and like I said, I've been in many churches.

You Americans... :crazy











:tease





That said, you don't throw out the baby, because the bathwater is dirty.


I just assume not get in dirty bathwather, Sister. I prefer praying at my pew. As loud as I can get any other time, I just can't see the benefit getting into a praying contest with a bunch of carnal men.

[Mrs. LPW]

I just assume not get in dirty bathwather, Sister. I prefer praying at my pew. As loud as I can get any other time, I just can't see the benefit getting into a praying contest with a bunch of carnal men.

Is that what goes on in your church?

And I wasn't saying get into the bathwater Bro... I was saying you don't throw out the baby with the bathwater...
You don't get rid of corporate unified prayer, because there are people who are in some kind of contest with each other. (something I can't even imagine)

[pelathais]

What if someone prayed 2 hours before service for an hour then came to church when it started? Would the church meeting be less "powerful"?
Yes, the meeting would be less powerful. In order for the service to be "powerful" everyone must actually see you praying. Prayer has no effect unless other people see and hear you praying.

This is why the hanky was invented; to draw the attention of an observer to the fact that you are praying more fervently than they are.

[Praxeas]

I've seen pre-service prayer meeting turn into a chest beating contest among men entirely too many times. Brother So and So gets a little loud and then Brother Whathisface decides to pray louder. Soon it turns into a shouting match and everyone walks away feeling like they've "touched God". Yeah right! No thanks! I tried the prayer rooms and found that praying at my pew was much better. I don't come to church to compete with anyone on getting in touch with the Lord.
Maybe the other brother is just praying louder because he can't hear himself pray over the other brother that is screaming his prayers out. I love prayer meetings but I don't like it when there is one person so loud it's hard to think

[Praxeas]

Rico,

I think I will have to agree with Old Paths on this one: I think we need to come into God's presence with thanks and praise, then repent and cleanse our hearts and minds, wash them through regeneration of the Spirit to allow us to usher in His holy presence and allow Him to have His way in the service.

Blessings, Rhoni
I think Rico's point is that we should have already done that, why wait until an hour before church starts?

And are we praying FOR the service or are we repenting? Repentance doesn't take an hour long pre-service prayer meeting

[TRFrance]

Its a great idea, but I don't think Pentecostal churches do that now as often as they used to do back in the old days.

[theoldpaths]

TOP......I think something wonderful happens in a church body when members come together in one room, in one accord and pray. The power of God comes down like in no other setting. Show me someone that mocks or resist scheduled prayer and I'll show you someone that is not consistant in their prayer life. yes, we ALL pray going down the street, in a car at home on the job, etc. but IMHO it cannot replace what happens when we come together. If I had the time or the space and could tell you of things that has happened in prayer, in the prayer room, or at the church or at someones home or in our church prayer "Fire Houses", it would cause you to want to experience the Glory of God.

When we pray together and miracles happen....no one person gets the glory. God gets it. It is so easy to say "I" when we recount miracles.

How I wish more pastor's would insist on pre-service prayer. I do not think you can or should call it mandantory as it takes something away from us all when we are forced to do anything. But if any pastor or ministry would make each prayer meeting exciting and a place that entertains the Holy Ghost then you will NEVER have to make it mandantory. they will come. they will bring their neighbor (who would not usually step foot in your church) just to pray. The young people will once again get on fire for God. Miracles will happen. Marriages will be put back together. Alters will be filled. All because people prayed.

Of course I do not have to mention of all the biblical miracles that took place when "people" (plural) prayed. But then I have seen the miraculous with only 1 praying but for the most part "people" need each other to be and stay encouraged.

I started out as a young person praying every morning at the church at 5:00 a.m. before going to school along with my family and the rest of the church. This is what gave me my prayer foundation that kept me when my world crumbled. I thank God every day for meeting with me and for my pastor who encouraged us to pray by his example.

A hearty-amen!

There were "all with one accord and in one place".

Behold how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity.

A born again christian who loves God will have no problem wanting to spend time with God in prayer. When you genuinely and sincerely love someone, then you will want to spend time with them; and you won't have any problem reading their letters to you.

There was a time in my spiritual walk when I seemed to have a hard time reading the word of God, but I did something about it and was able to get back to reading the word of God every day and appreciating being able to do so.

God is so good and his word is like hidden treasure!

[Rico]

A hearty-amen!

There were "all with one accord and in one place".

Behold how good and how pleasant it is for brethren to dwell together in unity.

A born again christian who loves God will have no problem wanting to spend time with God in prayer. When you genuinely and sincerely love someone, then you will want to spend time with them; and you won't have any problem reading their letters to you.

There was a time in my spiritual walk when I seemed to have a hard time reading the word of God, but I did something about it and was able to get back to reading the word of God every day and appreciating being able to do so.

God is so good and his word is like hidden treasure!

You are so right about reading the Word, Brother. I love reading my Bible. I get more out of that than just about anything else I do as part of this walk. I like prayer because I get to be honest with God about my thoughts and feelings. I like worship because I get to show Him how great I think He is. But I like reading His Word best because it shows me how it is God thinks.

[theoldpaths]

Honestly, I have a problem with the whole concept of a prayer room, unless it is for individuals only.
My experience has shown that they ALWAYS attract guys (or gals, but mainly guys) who are trying to outdo each other and appear to be the most spiritual one in the room.
And the whole thing is just too distracting.

Act 12:5 Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him.

Act 12:12 And when he had considered the thing, he came to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose surname was Mark; where many were gathered together praying.

I would like to encourage you that praying together or as someone else posted on here - corporately - is definitely ok with God as we have the example above.

Just because someone else is praying louder or speaking in tongues more or weeping more or interceding more than everyone else doesn't necessarily mean they are trying to outdo everyone else. Perhaps that is how the Spirit is leading them. But if one is being a distraction to you, then perhaps move to another part of the room.

When I pray I try to give my attention to the Lord - its my time to spend with him and not worry about what everyone else is doing. There may be times when I run out of things to say or just want to be quiet in prayer, but I still try to give HIM my attention and not be easily distracted by others. When I'm done praying though and there is still time before the service starts, I may look around and observe others or look to see what visitors have shown up, etc. But I don't want to judge others by how they are praying or what they are doing. To their own master they will stand or fall. As long as I fulfill my responsibility, then I'm good.

Sometimes when I just start praying, I'll ask God to help me to get my mind and my attention upon him.

God bless.

[theoldpaths]

Is is just me or has anyone noticed that more and more people war against any kind of rules. is it just a spirit of our day or what? examples, school kids, parents and kids against teacher rules. Church members against any rules, Nation against conservative rule, kids against parents rule, wives against husband rule (of any kind) worker against any corporate rule.

Not trying to stir the pot just seeing a very disturbing trend that is not letting up. Where will that leave my grandchildren. To me it just a strong foothold for the enemy. But then, who am I?

I've noticed that as well.

The bible does mention about those who despise government (mastery, that is, (concretely and collectively) rulers: - dominion, government) and are not afraid to speak evil of dignities.

[theoldpaths]

The necessity of pre-service prayer? Where in the bible does it show that? Teach the necessity of prayer? Sure, but you are talking about legislating something that the bible does not mention being mandatory....that is praying before a service...just before a service AT the church building grounds...not in the car..not at home...not earlier in the day.

I did teach a little about the OT example on page 3 of this thread.

[theoldpaths]

We have intercessory prayer before our Main Sunday service. Not everyone comes but those who do touch the throne of God. I just love pre-service prayer.

Blessings, Rhoni

Amen - me too.

[theoldpaths]

I don't believe in "mandatory" pre-service prayer. We serve God out of a willing heart. When "things" are made to be "madatory", whether it be prayer or giving... it comes a ritual void of power. I do believe we should enter a worship service prayerfully but to "mandate" a time of prayer is a vain attempt to force spirituality. Prayer, like everything else we give to God, should be offered out of willingness and a desire to please God. We serve God because we love Him, not because we are "required" to serve Him.

As I stated in an earlier post, the LORD in the OT mandated that the high priest do very specific things BEFORE he was ready to hear God's word in the Holy of Holies where he entered once a year; I wonder why that was?

[theoldpaths]

What does your Pastor do if your a saint who can't make it early for prayer? Ground you? I don't remember anything in the NT church about prayer before church.It would be hard to attend a church where the pastor keeps track of which saints come early to pray and which ones don't.

If you can't make it and/or have a good excuse, then you have a good excuse. But if not, then why not?

Is there anything in the NT that teaches how to conduct a church service? What should be done and in what order? Does the OT contain a type/shadow/figure/pattern of what the High Priest had to do before entering into the presence of God and being ready to hear the words of God?

[theoldpaths]

Really, who are you? http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

You appear to be in rebellion yourself; rebellion against those with whom you may disagree. This is a disturbing trend and I suggest you get in line before it's too late! http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

Frankly, I have trouble with "rules" when it comes to things of the Spirit. I seek God in a fashion that satisfies my Spirit and enables me to be a conduit to encourage others (apart from my theraputic grousing on AFF!http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/icons/icon7.gif).

Do you have "rules" that state people are supposed to "worship?" Rules for raising of hands and rules for how the hands are to be raised? I've actually run into folks that will rebuke newcomers for not turning their palms in the correct direction.

I attended a church that had a stolen traffic sign directing people which way to run - a "One Way" sign. This may have been a good "rule" because things did get a bit congested in that corner. But some folks there really enjoyed making up other rules as well. And when they got tired of all the rules, then they just threw their hands up in the air and said "Anything goes..."

It gets a bit wearisome riding other people's emotional roller coaster up and and down. How about just encouraging people to pray? How about just making a comfortable and well ventilated room available and setting a good example by being open and inviting?

Most people who tend to come to a church are seeking something in the way of the supernatural and most of them are inclined to seek that through prayer. Why do you need a "rule" to tell people to do what they showed up to do in the first place?

Is there anything in the NT that teaches how to conduct a church service? What should be done and in what order? Does the OT contain a type/shadow/figure/pattern of what the High Priest had to do before entering into the presence of God and being ready to hear the words of God?

[pelathais]

In the OT, the high priest could only enter the holy of holies once a year, but had to follow certain steps before doing so such as (may get some of these wrong or in the wrong order or may forget some)...

- sacrificing at the brazen altar (type of repentance and/or crucifying the flesh)
- washing at the brazen laver (type of baptism)
- burning incense at the golden candlestick before the veil (type of offering up praise - i.e., worship)

The point was that he HAD to do these things BEFORE he was ready to enter into the presence of God and HEAR from God's word.

The High Priest in the Old Testament was a forerunner of Christ - not of ourselves. Christ entered ONCE into the Holy Place (Hebrews 9:22-28). That the priest had to prepare himself indicates that Christ too lived a life which prepared Him (a sinless life). The pattern and activity of the High Priest is not one that we are intended to follow.

Though we are intended to follow Christ, there is an important difference between Christ Himself and His followers. The angry old ladies who scurry about gossiping and slandering the saints that fail to measure up to their standard of appearances by making a demostration in the prayer room are certainly not the paragons of virtue that they imagine themselves to be.

Sometimes apostolics ask, why do we do the things in a church service that we do? Is it just tradition or is there a bible example?

Pre-service prayer is like crucifying the flesh and getting the flesh under subjection. My personal experience is that when I go to pre-service prayer, I find it easier in the service. During worship my flesh does not feel so heavy and worship is easier and I also get more out of the preaching of the word of God. Also the word of God teaches us that no flesh shall glory in his presence. The flesh and Spirit war against each other, but by prayer we give the Spirit the upper hand.

Worship is like offering up the incense which was another step that had to be done BEFORE being ready to hear the word of God.

We are priests now in the NT.
The "holy sacrifices" that we as "lively stones" and "a spiritual house," and "an holy priesthood..." are seen offered up not only in our regular church services, but throughout the life of a dedicated believer.

To try and say that there is some sort of biblical mandate for "mandatory pre-service prayer" is to add to the Bible itself and would probably make all of one's prayers of no effect due to the sin of presumption (1 Peter 2:10-22).

And yes - if you were to make a list of the things that happen in a typical Pentecostal church service and compared it to the Bible, you will find that most of the things that happen are indeed "traditions" as opposed to Biblical practices in and of themselves. Now, this doesn't make the "traditions" wrong, but we should be clear and not reach to try and stretch the Bible over ourselves like a fat jogger does with his lycra.

[theoldpaths]

We must learn the flow of the spirit and how to follow the flow...(Does that make sense?)

Well as I posted on another page, I believe the OT pattern of what the High Priest did before entering into the presence of God and being ready to hear God's word, shows what we should do in the NT church.

I wonder why God just didn't tell the High Priest to just come into the Holiest of holies whenever he wanted to and just make sure he have sacrificed an animal or 2 for your sins and the sins of the people? Why bother with the washing at the brazen laver and burning incense before the veil? Why all the steps and in a specific order and only once a year?

I mean God changes not - his essential character does not change - so what was the big deal in the OT?

I believe as Moses was shown to doing everything after the pattern in the heavenlies, it was all a shadow of the real thing in heaven and what was to come in the NT.

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.

[pelathais]

Is there anything in the NT that teaches how to conduct a church service? What should be done and in what order? Does the OT contain a type/shadow/figure/pattern of what the High Priest had to do before entering into the presence of God and being ready to hear the words of God?
You made reference to the Day of Atonement service. With the exception of Zacharias in the New Testament, I can think of no case where "the words of God" were heard in that context.

The purpose of Yom Kippur was to present the blood in the Holy Place, not to "hear the words of God."

And you are correct - there is really scant instruction for "how to run a church service" in the Bible. Particularly if we are to include musical instruments and all of the apparatus of the modern age. That's why the "traditions" we have are not all wrong. But we should be clear about what is traditional and what is Biblical.

... gotta step away for a bit - BRB.

[theoldpaths]

We must learn the flow of the spirit and how to follow the flow...(Does that make sense?)

I do agree thou, that when the service starts, we go with God's Spirit.

What I mean by that is that there has been times in my church where in worship the Spirit moves in such a mighty way, that people just end up coming to the altar, and people just worship, and we let God have His own way. If God is doing something in Spirit during worship, then why should we only give Him a certain amount of time, and then interrupt him, and start the preaching of the word?

There have been times also, when after worship, preaching, and the altar call that God has moved in a mighty way and the Pastor will just put up a sign saying that if you want to go you can be dismissed; but when God is moving like that, most don't dismiss themselves.

[theoldpaths]

That's a constant problem that I've run into. To be honest, it really makes it hard to pray when you've got someone going around scolding people for not being as "spiritual" as they are.

So does that mean when the Pastor says its time to pray or worship or whatever that we just kinda sit back and say to ourselves - do I feel like doing that right now?

I wonder why the bible tells us to obey those that have the rule over us?

Are there rulers in God's kingdom? The bible says so...

Rom 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that showeth mercy, with cheerfulness.

God's kingdom needs leaders who lead and obedient, submissive saints who follow. I wonder how a shepherd dealt with sheep who didn't want to obey him? Perhaps that is why a shepherd has a rod and a staff.

[theoldpaths]

I agree with you! I haven't read all the posts so I might repeat someone here... BUT, I believe there should be prayer before every service. Calling on God, praying for the lost, hurting, bound, depressed and so on is detrimental. It's God's anointing that will break the chains that have people bound and the saints of God need to see that need. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. (Ja 5 16) Without the saints of God praying for the needs that will be in that service, then people just might not get what they need from God.

Saints also need to sensitive to God by not talking to others and not letting their children run around and play... IMO, you can go outside or in the foyer and talk. Sometimes I think when we've been in church for a while, we forget our desperation, our hunger for God.

And this is another reason I like prayer rooms. As where I think we should be reverent in the sanctuary, visitors may not understand the excitement of prayer and it might make them feel uncomfy...... As where if your church is able to go to prayer rooms, one can pray how they like to pray and the visitor will still feel the incredible, wonderful spirit of God!

A hearty-amen!

Paul asked that prayer be made for him that he would be given utterance. Usually in church, the Pastor is going to preach.

There are so many needs that could be prayed for in a pre-service prayers such as...

- God would draw lost visitors to the service
- God would help the song leader , worshippers, and muscicians would be annointed and would lead in the worship with clean hearts, spirits, etc
- That the people of God would worship God in Spirit and in Truth
- That God would give the Pastor the message that needs to be preached, and that God would annoint him, for it is the annointing that breaks the yoke, that he would be given utterance, etc
- That God would lead sinners to repentance, etc
- That God would fill someone with the Holy Ghost

The list just goes on and on!

[theoldpaths]

Mandatory pre-service prayer?

I would think that most Apostolic churches have their prayer rooms open and folks are encouraged to pray before service, but mandatory?

The only thing mandatory about it, is if you may be seeking affirmation from the pastor.

Or could there be another purpose that you are not aware of?

[theoldpaths]

In other words, you must be seen in the prayer room before church before you are considered to be used in any way as a volunteer. It's all about appearances! Look as I tell you and be where I tell you.

Do I hear scorning? Proverbs has a lot to say about scorners.

[theoldpaths]

The Young Ladies at our Church were always told by the Pastor that if they were interested in a mate, look who's in the Prayer Room!

I think that is good advice.

[theoldpaths]

:ursofunny
Don't get me wrong. I believe in spending time in prayer before each service.

When it become "mandatory", I think sometimes people may go through the motions to get approval. I know there were times that I did years ago! :)

One service I had a couple come to Sunday night service that I invited. I went to where they were sitting to welcome them and make them feel comfortable. Suddenly, I realized that I wasn't in the prayer room where I was expected to be. I had to excuse myself and go to the prayer room in case the pastor noticed that I wasn't there!

Why would a Pastor ask that all the born again saints in his church come to pre-service prayer? There must be a purpose. There must be a reason. In Acts 2 they were ALL in one accord and in one place. If Jesus could get them ALL to be in one place and in one accord, then the leaders in the NT church can too.

What did Paul have to say about those who were contentious and wanted to resist and rebel and not obey?

1Co 11:16 But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

[theoldpaths]

I've seen pre-service prayer meeting turn into a chest beating contest among men entirely too many times. Brother So and So gets a little loud and then Brother Whathisface decides to pray louder. Soon it turns into a shouting match and everyone walks away feeling like they've "touched God". Yeah right! No thanks! I tried the prayer rooms and found that praying at my pew was much better. I don't come to church to compete with anyone on getting in touch with the Lord.

In Acts they were able to pray together...

Act 12:5 Peter therefore was kept in prison: but prayer was made without ceasing of the church unto God for him.

Act 12:12 And when he had considered the thing, he came to the house of Mary the mother of John, whose surname was Mark; where many were gathered together praying.

If you are giving the Lord your attention and are spending time with Him talking with Him, then who cares what anyone else is doing? Can we not enter into our own prayer closet and close out what is happening around us? How would our wife feel if we initiated a conversation with her and then not give her our attention, but started looking around at what everyone else is doing?

If they could do it in Acts in the early church, then we can do it too in the same church. IF something is out of order, then perhaps it needs to be brought to the attention of the Pastor and He needs to do something about it.

However if God is touching someone and they get emotional and want to respond back to Him in an emotional way, I have no problem with that. I understand that in one prayer meeting some could be just praying, some could be offering up supplications, some could be interceding and groaning, some could be weeping, and some could even be laughing; etc.

Just some thoughts.

God bless.

[theoldpaths]

If you wait until you get to church to crucify your flesh and get your flesh under subjection, you are completely wasting your time.

Are you saying that if one doesn't have their flesh crucified and under subjection, that they should just not pray and do nothing and go into the service with their heavy flesh warring against their spirit and because their flesh is not under subjection, to just let their flesh have its own way?

I don't think that would be good for a born again apostolic saint.

[theoldpaths]

You are so right about reading the Word, Brother. I love reading my Bible. I get more out of that than just about anything else I do as part of this walk. I like prayer because I get to be honest with God about my thoughts and feelings. I like worship because I get to show Him how great I think He is. But I like reading His Word best because it shows me how it is God thinks.

Amen to that Rico.

[theoldpaths]

The High Priest in the Old Testament was a forerunner of Christ - not of ourselves. Christ entered ONCE into the Holy Place (Hebrews 9:22-28). That the priest had to prepare himself indicates that Christ too lived a life which prepared Him (a sinless life). The pattern and activity of the High Priest is not one that we are intended to follow.


Amen - Christ is our high-priest! And we are priests.

Though we are intended to follow Christ, there is an important difference between Christ Himself and His followers. The angry old ladies who scurry about gossiping and slandering the saints that fail to measure up to their standard of appearances by making a demostration in the prayer room are certainly not the paragons of virtue that they imagine themselves to be.

Perhaps those ladies repented at the beginning of their prayer and so perhaps their "demonstration" is them actually touching and getting touched by God.

The "holy sacrifices" that we as "lively stones" and "a spiritual house," and "an holy priesthood..." are seen offered up not only in our regular church services, but throughout the life of a dedicated believer.

To try and say that there is some sort of biblical mandate for "mandatory pre-service prayer" is to add to the Bible itself and would probably make all of one's prayers of no effect due to the sin of presumption (1 Peter 2:10-22).


Agreed. We bring the needs of others and ourselves in our own personal prayer time in our closet. But we can also bring the needs of the church service to God in prayer before service as well. Just like the apostles, we can ALL be in accord and in one place.

Isn't it interesting that there is no example of a church service in the NT - how it should be done, what if any order, etc? I wonder why that is? Perhaps because there are things to be learned from the OT. Paul said in one place that the things that were written aforetime were written for OUR learning now in the NT.

And yes - if you were to make a list of the things that happen in a typical Pentecostal church service and compared it to the Bible, you will find that most of the things that happen are indeed "traditions" as opposed to Biblical practices in and of themselves. Now, this doesn't make the "traditions" wrong, but we should be clear and not reach to try and stretch the Bible over ourselves like a fat jogger does with his lycra.


If you feel that pre-service prayer has absolutely NO benefit, NO effect and NO impact at all on a church service, then you are free to do as you will.

Having experienced both ways, I can definitely tell you that pre-service prayer has made a difference for me and others and for the Pastor as well.

[Praxeas]

I did teach a little about the OT example on page 3 of this thread.
That was not "preservice prayer" that was the the law about the high priest entering into the Holy place. In the NT Jesus entered into there once and for all and as a result we can all have boldness to do the same. My question is where does the bible say we have to have an hour or so prayer just before the service actually starts? If it is to get right with God then something is amiss...when we pray we pray FOR the service, not because we need to get right with God in order to enter His presence. Where in the bible is it taught this is the case? Taking something from the OT and making a type out of it without any teaching from scriptures to support it is spiritualizing text to support a non biblical doctrine particularly in the instance of making it mandatory.

[Praxeas]

As I stated in an earlier post, the LORD in the OT mandated that the high priest do very specific things BEFORE he was ready to hear God's word in the Holy of Holies where he entered once a year; I wonder why that was?
to make him ritually pure. In the NT we don't need to pray an hour to become clean.

[Rico]

Are you saying that if one doesn't have their flesh crucified and under subjection, that they should just not pray and do nothing and go into the service with their heavy flesh warring against their spirit and because their flesh is not under subjection, to just let their flesh have its own way?

I don't think that would be good for a born again apostolic saint.

The point was that we shouldn't wait until just before church to get our flesh under subjection. We're supposed to live with our flesh under subjection. Make sense now? :)

[Praxeas]

Well as I posted on another page, I believe the OT pattern of what the High Priest did before entering into the presence of God and being ready to hear God's word, shows what we should do in the NT church.

I wonder why God just didn't tell the High Priest to just come into the Holiest of holies whenever he wanted to and just make sure he have sacrificed an animal or 2 for your sins and the sins of the people? Why bother with the washing at the brazen laver and burning incense before the veil? Why all the steps and in a specific order and only once a year?

I mean God changes not - his essential character does not change - so what was the big deal in the OT?

I believe as Moses was shown to doing everything after the pattern in the heavenlies, it was all a shadow of the real thing in heaven and what was to come in the NT.

Rom 15:4 For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the Scriptures might have hope.
When you pray aren't you coming before God? Aren't you coming into His presence? Church buildings are NOT the temples of God where his spirit resides nor are they the Holy Place.

[berkeley]

If I was a pastor, would I have mandatory prayer before service? No, but I would be over zealous to encourage prayer.

[Praxeas]

So does that mean when the Pastor says its time to pray or worship or whatever that we just kinda sit back and say to ourselves - do I feel like doing that right now?

I wonder why the bible tells us to obey those that have the rule over us?

Are there rulers in God's kingdom? The bible says so...

Rom 12:8 Or he that exhorteth, on exhortation: he that giveth, let him do it with simplicity; he that ruleth, with diligence; he that showeth mercy, with cheerfulness.

God's kingdom needs leaders who lead and obedient, submissive saints who follow. I wonder how a shepherd dealt with sheep who didn't want to obey him? Perhaps that is why a shepherd has a rod and a staff.
you just changed the issue from the Pastor making something MANDATORY and to questioning what our response should be. Two totally different issues.

Additionally the "rulers" in this context are leaders, not dictators. They lead, they are not generals barking orders to subjugates.

In fact no particular office is mentioned...somehow in the minds of some this means a pastor has absolute dictatorial authority in the local church.

[Praxeas]

A hearty-amen!

Paul asked that prayer be made for him that he would be given utterance. Usually in church, the Pastor is going to preach.

There are so many needs that could be prayed for in a pre-service prayers such as...

- God would draw lost visitors to the service
- God would help the song leader , worshippers, and muscicians would be annointed and would lead in the worship with clean hearts, spirits, etc
- That the people of God would worship God in Spirit and in Truth
- That God would give the Pastor the message that needs to be preached, and that God would annoint him, for it is the annointing that breaks the yoke, that he would be given utterance, etc
- That God would lead sinners to repentance, etc
- That God would fill someone with the Holy Ghost

The list just goes on and on!
Those prayers can be made at any time too. It can be made 2 hours before. It can be made during church service, at the end. It can be made during any individuals personal prayer time.

Im all for prayer meetings and even pre-service prayer, but the arguments being made don't support the assertion that this is to be mandatory for members.

I'd say it's mandatory for all saints to be praying often, but to tell them they have in order to be a member here you have to pray at this time on this day JUST BEFORE the service is wrong

[theoldpaths]

The point was that we shouldn't wait until just before church to get our flesh under subjection. We're supposed to live with our flesh under subjection. Make sense now? :)

Agreed.

[theoldpaths]

That was not "preservice prayer" that was the the law about the high priest entering into the Holy place. In the NT Jesus entered into there once and for all and as a result we can all have boldness to do the same. My question is where does the bible say we have to have an hour or so prayer just before the service actually starts? If it is to get right with God then something is amiss...when we pray we pray FOR the service, not because we need to get right with God in order to enter His presence. Where in the bible is it taught this is the case? Taking something from the OT and making a type out of it without any teaching from scriptures to support it is spiritualizing text to support a non biblical doctrine particularly in the instance of making it mandatory.

While I do agree that we can enter into the presence of God in our own personal prayer time, I also believe that God can meet with the whole church during service in a mighty, special way as well. My experience has been, especially lately, that God moves in a special way in church during corporate worship, than when I am alone with God in prayer.

Why is that? Why is it that God sometimes in a corporate church service moves in a way that is totally different from personal prayer? It reminds me of the time there was 120 at the dedication of Solomon's temple and the glory of the Lord fell so that they were not able to minister. Sometimes the glory of the Lord falls/moves during corporate worship.

God said in the OT that he would meet with them in the holiest of all and would give them commandments - i.e., would give his word.

Exo 25:22 And there I will meet with thee, and I will commune with thee from above the mercy seat, from between the two cherubims which are upon the ark of the testimony, of all things which I will give thee in commandment unto the children of Israel.

Lev 16:2 And the LORD said unto Moses, Speak unto Aaron thy brother, that he come not at all times into the holy place within the veil before the mercy seat, which is upon the ark; that he die not: for I will appear in the cloud upon the mercy seat.

The mercy seat represented where God would meet and commune with the one inside the holiest of all.

But Aaron was told not to come in at anytime and He had to follow certain steps before coming in.

When we come to church, we come to hear God's word. We believe that God has given the preacher the message to preach to whom it is for. I've heard of some preachers coming to church, still not hearing from God what to preach, but got it sometime after that.

Now Paul asked for prayer that utterance may be given him...

Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

Col 4:3 Withal praying also for us, that God would open unto us a door of utterance, to speak the mystery of Christ, for which I am also in bonds:

Perhaps sometimes God wants to see how hungry his saints are for the word. Typically, saints express their hunger for the word by prayer.

Many times our Pastor has asked us to pray that God would speak to us and that we would have ears to hear and that we would open up our hearts to receive his word and to apply it to our lives.

Our church has .5 hour pre-service prayer, but if others have 1 hour prayer, then that is up to them. I usually don't spend the whole .5 hour speaking to God, but I don't let the .5 hours slip away without saying anything to God. Me personally, I don't believe that a certain time limit is required, but the church has to be open at a certain time before church to enable prayer, so a time has to be set.

I also agree that pre-service prayer is to pray for the needs of the service. However, if a saint has sinned and not yet repented, he should do so at the beginning of his prayer, so that he can move on to pray for the needs of the service; and to have his unrepentent sin hinder anything.

One last thought, the bible also mentions the "ministry of the saints"...

1Co 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, ye (know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

Saints have a ministry and if those in leadership or worship ministries are expected to pray before church, then shouldn't the saints pray for their ministry? Can saints minister to others saints in church and/or at the altar?

1Pe 4:10 As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another, as good stewards of the manifold grace of God.

Paul told Timothy to stir up the gift - how was he to do that? Perhaps by prayer.

Matt 25 also shows how important it is to keep oil in our lamps and not to let it run out like the 5 foolish virgins. How do they get renewed or topped up with the oil of the Holy Ghost? I believe by prayer.

I'm willing to admit that I may have mistaken my OT types/shadows/figures/patterns concerning this subject, however I still stand by pre-service prayer. I and many others have experienced the results.

[theoldpaths]

When you pray aren't you coming before God? Aren't you coming into His presence? Church buildings are NOT the temples of God where his spirit resides nor are they the Holy Place.

True, but the glory of the Lord can fall and move in a church service in a way that is different in personal prayer. Reminds me of the time that the 120 couldn't stand to ministers during the dedication of the temple of Solomon. I've been in services where the glory fell and we didn't even get to the preaching of the word.

[Sherri]

We have pre-service prayer, but the only ones REQUIRED to be there are staff members; the rest are voluntary. I've never heard of mandatory prayer! We also have a once a month Saturday morning prayer service, and we have a great crowd, but they come voluntarily.

[theoldpaths]

you just changed the issue from the Pastor making something MANDATORY and to questioning what our response should be. Two totally different issues.

Additionally the "rulers" in this context are leaders, not dictators. They lead, they are not generals barking orders to subjugates.

In fact no particular office is mentioned...somehow in the minds of some this means a pastor has absolute dictatorial authority in the local church.

That's because I was responding to the following post...

Originally Posted by pelathais
That's a constant problem that I've run into. To be honest, it really makes it hard to pray when you've got someone going around scolding people for not being as "spiritual" as they are.

Notice that his post was about a "person" going around scolding people; hence my response about RESPONDING.

Hope that clarifies my response to him for you.

[theoldpaths]

Those prayers can be made at any time too. It can be made 2 hours before. It can be made during church service, at the end. It can be made during any individuals personal prayer time.

Im all for prayer meetings and even pre-service prayer, but the arguments being made don't support the assertion that this is to be mandatory for members.

I'd say it's mandatory for all saints to be praying often, but to tell them they have in order to be a member here you have to pray at this time on this day JUST BEFORE the service is wrong

Do you believe worship is mandatory for all born again saints in a church service?

[PMBrown]

There are very little grounds, if any, from which to base a church service on anything in the OT. Not because it isn't relevant, but simply because it isn't addressed. And neither the Tabernacle nor the Temple prefigure church services. Pelathais is right.

[tv1a]

Sometimes I have difficulty with corporate prayer, especially if music is playing. I usually try to find an obscure corner where I can sit in my Budha pose.

I pray when driving in the car, walking, and even just sitting around. How is this different than pre-service prayer (prayer room)?
(And I cannot concentrate in a prayer room -never could. Too many people trying to be louder than the next person.)

[ChTatum]

One last thought, the bible also mentions the "ministry of the saints"...

1Co 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, ye (know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

A little more study would show that you are taking this one out of context. Do saints have ministry? Of course, but this passage refers to a group of people who are dedicated to meeting the needs of the saints.

[Scott Hutchinson]

We do have a pre-service prayer meeting at the church I attend,the pastors does ask us if we can make it to come 30 minutes before the service and pray.
Also we have that before the mid-week service.

[theoldpaths]

One last thought, the bible also mentions the "ministry of the saints"...

1Co 16:15 I beseech you, brethren, ye (know the house of Stephanas, that it is the firstfruits of Achaia, and that they have addicted themselves to the ministry of the saints,)

A little more study would show that you are taking this one out of context. Do saints have ministry? Of course, but this passage refers to a group of people who are dedicated to meeting the needs of the saints.

You are right. Thank you for pointing that out.

[theoldpaths]

Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called a house of prayer for all people.

Luk 19:45 And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought;
Luk 19:46 Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.
Luk 19:47 And he taught daily in the temple. But the chief priests and the scribes and the chief of the people sought to destroy him,
Luk 19:48 And could not find what they might do: for all the people were very attentive to hear him.

[revrandy]

Just a note...

the Prayer Room is packed out with standing room only before service...

We also have about 5 minutes of worship with everybody as service begins....

Very Powerful!!!

[Rulk]

We have one... but I wouldn't say it's "mandatory", although it is highly encouraged and the rewards have been great when the participation is high.

[theoldpaths]

Just a note...

the Prayer Room is packed out with standing room only before service...

We also have about 5 minutes of worship with everybody as service begins....

Very Powerful!!!

Awesome - great testimony!

[All4one]

Manditory? If it is forced its not a loving relationship! Like telling your wife she has to kiss you every morning at 7:30 before you go to work. If she loves you it wont have to be made manditory!

[King's Child]

Manditory? If it is forced its not a loving relationship! Like telling your wife she has to kiss you every morning at 7:30 before you go to work. If she loves you it wont have to be made manditory!

And if you are truly in love with Jesus you won't have to be forced to come to prayer before church, you will want to come.

[theoldpaths]

And if you are truly in love with Jesus you won't have to be forced to come to prayer before church, you will want to come.

Amen - good point.

I don't find prayer before church to be a drudgery at all. I've touched and been touched in pre-service prayer.

I can understand how the flesh/carnal nature may not want to pray, but who is in control? The flesh warreth against the spirit. Are you walking in the flesh or in the Spirit?

[Brother Price]

I have always felt that if a service is saturated with prayer before the service, then the service itslef is welcoming to the Spirit, and we are more open to His Spirit. The altars should always be filled with believers before service, instead of the believers in the pews gossiping.

[Sister Alvear]

so precious that we can talk with the one who is the REASON for us even being in His house.

[Sept5SavedTeen]

We have pre-service prayer an hour before service starts, and sometimes we're done after 45 minutes and we mingle a bit, but if we're trying to get a hold of something, we just pray thru until the music starts... We usually try not to have the assembly hall to be too loud with talk and whatnot before service, if people really want to talk then they go outside.
They've got a prayer room in Plaster Rock (one for the brothers and one for the sisters) and I really do look forward to getting in the prayer room before service starts- their prayer rooms have to be some of the freest prayer rooms for the spirit to move... I'll be up there this Thursday-Saturday/Sunday, and I can't wait to see what the LORD is going to do- before service.

-Bro. Alex

[Jermyn Davidson]

I think every church should have a prayer room and the members of that church should be encouraged to seek the Lord in prayer BEFORE the service, for the sake of the service, the preacher, the saints and the lost souls who may be in attendance.


Has anyone ever laid their hands on the pews of their sanctuary before a service, in an effort to pray for the Presence of the Lord to be manifested in that particular sanctuary for the next service?

I did so once because the church I was attending at the time was going through a "slump" of not fiery services, where there seemed to be a spirit of heaviness trying to control the services.

After I did this, the next service that afternoon, our church experienced a breakthrough!

I experienced and learned so much at Jacksonville, NC!


I believe that a Christian can change the atmosphere of ANY location with prayer, praise and worship to Jesus Christ.

[jaxfam6]

We have a pre-service prayer. It starts 15 minuts before music time and it is in the sanctuary. We do not have it longer because our pastor feels we should come to church already prayed up and ready to go. We should be praying periodically throughout the day as it is anyway. We get to church, fellowship a bit, start prayer, go immediately into worship service. We have some powerful worship services, preaching, and altar calls.
There should not be a need to get to church an half hour to hour early to pray and get the mood set. We should already be set. We should enter into his gates with thanksgiving and into his courts with praise. We should pray without ceasing.
No I do not believe that it is possible to be on your knees 24/7 praying but I do believe we should be thinking on Him throughout the day so that when we need to pray we are only a step away and all we have to do is walk into His presence in a moments notice.

[Jermyn Davidson]

1) There should not be a need to get to church an half hour to hour early to pray and get the mood set. 2) We should already be set. 3) We should enter into his gates with thanksgiving and into his courts with praise. 4) We should pray without ceasing.


1) There are some days that an hour of prayer before service begins is beneficial for more reasons than just setting the mood.

2) Yes we should already be set, but when I was stationed at Camp Lejeune, it was all I could do to get to the prayer room and detoxify my own mind and heart from my surroundings and the issues of that day.

3) Yes we should, though there is not a mandate as to how deep that expression of praise and thanksgiving should be. The prayer time before church can help to focus your mind and bring you to a place of deep praise and thanksgiving.

4) I don't think this is a scripture to be taken as literal as others-- maybe we should live our lives as a prayer towards the Lord. If this is to be taken literal, it's just one more thing to add to the list of stuff I need Forgiveness and Grace for.

[jaxfam6]

1) There are some days that an hour of prayer before service begins is beneficial for more reasons than just setting the mood.

2) Yes we should already be set, but when I was stationed at Camp Lejeune, it was all I could do to get to the prayer room and detoxify my own mind and heart from my surroundings and the issues of that day.

3) Yes we should, though there is not a mandate as to how deep that expression of praise and thanksgiving should be. The prayer time before church can help to focus your mind and bring you to a place of deep praise and thanksgiving.

4) I don't think this is a scripture to be taken as literal as others-- maybe we should live our lives as a prayer towards the Lord. If this is to be taken literal, it's just one more thing to add to the list of stuff I need Forgiveness and Grace for.

I understand you. The thing I was getting at in all of it was this, we have no 'mandatory prayer time', we should all be doing as best we can throughout the day to keep our mind trained on God. We can pray as we drive in traffic, as we do our work, as we get our showers, etc. I think the point of praying withour ceasing is that our lives should be lived as a prayer to God. There is no way a person can live on the knees 24/7. What is the old saying? You would become "so spiritual minded you are no earthly good" if that is all you had time for.

[Jermyn Davidson]

I understand you. The thing I was getting at in all of it was this, we have no 'mandatory prayer time', we should all be doing as best we can throughout the day to keep our mind trained on God. We can pray as we drive in traffic, as we do our work, as we get our showers, etc. I think the point of praying withour ceasing is that our lives should be lived as a prayer to God. There is no way a person can live on the knees 24/7. What is the old saying? You would become "so spiritual minded you are no earthly good" if that is all you had time for.


yeah I agree. it would be impossible to be salt and light in the world without real interaction with the world.

[ronharvey]

I was just wondering how many Apostolics in here, in your churches, do you have pre-service prayer that is manditory for the born again saints in your church?

Pre-service prayer is mandatory and only the church leadership (all involved in the church ministries etc...) is expected to be there.

I really like prayer rooms and LOUD prayer :hanky

One can really tell the overall tone of the service by the way the pre-service prayer goes.

Saints fold their arms lean back in the pew and wait for the "curtain" to open.

They are more than able to pray and help elevate the climate of the service but would rather allow others to do the work and them rake in the benefits.

Then they want to talk about how the service "could" have been better. They are also the ones who are always sitting on the minister's message and then judging it as "could" have been better, more inspiring.

Jude 1:12 "These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots;"

When they catch me they ask for gossip, I ask them why they don't just ask the person they are wanting to talk about.

Ron