Steve Pixler - Technology and Dominion - Must hear

[pentecostisalive]

As many of you, Bro. Steve Pixler is one of the most brilliant minds in Pentecost. He recently preached in Calgary, Alberta on "Technology and Dominion". I am listening to it now, and it is very interesting. It is almost 2 hours long, although he is such a good teacher that it doesn't seem that long.

http://www.truthchurch.com/page.php?ID=23

There is also other messages that he preached at that camp.

[RandyWayne]

I'm starting to listen now and am intrigued.

I will give my "feedback" after it is done or I feel I have the gist of things. :)

[pentecostisalive]

I'm starting to listen now and am intrigued.

I will give my "feedback" after it is done or I feel I have the gist of things. :)

He starts getting into the gist of it about 40 minutes into it. He lays a big foundation. :) But you have to listen to all of it, to get the whole picture.

[Baron1710]

He starts getting into the gist of it about 40 minutes into it. He lays a big foundation. :) But you have to listen to all of it, to get the whole picture.

Is there a Readers Digest version?

[pentecostisalive]

Wow...... He explains the difference between internet and TV in a very powerful way.

[pentecostisalive]

Folks, I just finished listening to a message that every Apostolic needs to hear. I encourage you to listen to it.

[Baron1710]

Folks, I just finished listening to a message that every Apostolic needs to hear. I encourage you to listen to it.

So tell us something about it.

[Jermyn Davidson]

So tell us something about it.

no way-- and spoil it for the rest of us-- you just gotta hear it for yourself!

:)

[RandyWayne]

I'm nearly done, but there are some serious issues here.

For one he makes many good observations about technology but makes enough errors as to be dangerous.

The whole thing is an ant-TV rant -but made to sound much more deep, at least during the first half.

To sum up the first 30 minutes. Gold is good, but the golden calf that Israel made is bad. That is the gist of it.

TV = the golden calf, and is irredeemable.

Sometime during the middle he makes a very good point that "apostolics" shouldn't copy the world but lead the world in talent, art, inventions, and every other definable skill. So why didn't he then promote higher learning to accomplish this? In one hand, his type of thinking doesn't encourage imagination and creativity yet imagination IS what is required to achieve great things.

[pelathais]

hmmm... I note that so far, those who would tend to agree with Bro. Pixler's view are unable to sum that view up.

[Praxeas]

Folks, I just finished listening to a message that every Apostolic needs to hear. I encourage you to listen to it.
why?
What is so important about knowing the difference between Internet and TV? BTW anyone know the difference between a Computer and a TV set?

[pentecostisalive]

hmmm... I note that so far, those who would tend to agree with Bro. Pixler's view are unable to sum that view up.

HAHAHAHA....... There are too many good things in this message to be able to summarize effectively. You need to listen to the whole thing in context.

[RandyWayne]

hmmm... I note that so far, those who would tend to agree with Bro. Pixler's view are unable to sum that view up.

He made some great points, but also personally holds the opinion that first and foremost, TV is bad. It is almost if God DID send him this message, but then he turned around and fit it into his own preconceived mold. This would account for the parts that truly sounded inspired with those that sounded MUCH more force.

[Praxeas]

Ok, so in other words because there is a difference between TV and Internet that makes Internet good and TV bad? There is a difference between fornication and murder but both are bad

[RandyWayne]

why?
What is so important about knowing the difference between Internet and TV? BTW anyone know the difference between a Computer and a TV set?

According to him, the TV represents the Golden Calf. And goes into great lengths why TV should not be used by any apostolic minister because of its very nature -which is to ingrain images into your head, because of the image itself and because of the effect it has on the attention span (of course he brings up MTV as an example -a network that no one watches).

He ALSO goes into the fact that apostolics should be leading the charge in technology and art. How can we do that if we spend all day in church services and our women spend all day at home?

And finally, if TV is so effective at implanting images and ideas.... then why are we not using it??????

[RandyWayne]

So much of the sermon was based on the fact that technology is NOT inherently bad.

But then he forces this message into his own "manual" idea that TV IS bad (of course this gets the most 'amens' from the crowd).

[pelathais]

why?
What is so important about knowing the difference between Internet and TV? BTW anyone know the difference between a Computer and a TV set?
When I go to the set up screen on my television I see the IP address that is assigned to it; and it's a public IP not anything like APIPA that the cable company uses on their internal network.

I can go to work an PING my television. The TV is an Internet node.

And, most UPC preachers whose computers I have worked on have TV tuner cards already installed. This means that their "computers" are televisions - fully capable of receiving broadcast, cable and/or satellite television signals.

And I further note, that the only refutation to my last post in this thread was, "HAHAHAHA..." Sounded like nervous laughter. Can't you sum up the message in your own words?

[RandyWayne]

When I go to the set up screen on my television I see the IP address that is assigned to it; and it's a public IP not anything like APIPA that the cable company uses on their internal network.

I can go to work an PING my television. The TV is an Internet node.

And, most UPC preachers whose computers I have worked on have TV tuner cards already installed. This means that their "computers" are televisions - fully capable of receiving broadcast, cable and/or satellite television signals.

Based on the shouts of the audience during the sermon, he was strictly preaching to the choir from the manual......

[pelathais]

Based on the shouts of the audience during the sermon, he was strictly preaching to the choir from the manual......
But Pixler's not UPC and I don't believe that church is either, anymore. What manual? Another novelty. Whatever happened to the Old Paths?

[Praxeas]

Im not surprised

[Scott Hutchinson]

I have not listened to the message but I'm sure Elder Pixler has sought The Lord and fasted,and delievered what he felt he should.
I'm need to listen to the message,but I believe the brother is a man of God.

[RandyWayne]

I have not listened to the message but I'm sure Elder Pixler has sought The Lord and fasted,and delievered what he felt he should.
I'm need to listen to the message,but I believe the brother is a man of God.

I believe it WAS an inspired message. The problem was is that he received this revelation and (at least in part) was forced to adapt it to beliefs he already had -in a rather awkward way.
It was just enough to nearly ruin it for me.

[Praxeas]

In other words the "revelation" was we can or should use technology....the addition was "but tv is evil"

[Scott Hutchinson]

In my opinion if one form of media is evil then it all is.
The usage of media is what makes it good or evil.

[RandyWayne]

In my opinion if one form of media is evil then it all is.
The usage of media is what makes it good or evil.

Exactly. He was *almost* there..... but then segway'ed into TV for 20+ minutes and why the medium of television is *NEVER* good.

[Praxeas]

can someone tell me why they say segwayed? I know what one of those are, how did the word get used this way?

[Scott Hutchinson]

I would agree alot of stuff of tv is not good for you,but alot of stuff online ain't good for you either.

[RandyWayne]

can someone tell me why they say segwayed? I know what one of those are, how did the word get used this way?

I don't know the origin and am too lazy to look it up, but it's just a close word for tangent (or moving tangent)-and hear it used a lot myself the past year.

[CC1]

What is it about ultra cons and 2 hour sermons? Do they not think they can get a point across in a reasonable amount of time?

From what I am hearing about the first 40 minutes being great and setting some great principles out only to then have them moulded to preconceived notions and positions must also be an ultra con device because that is exactly what the ultra con pastor from Colorado did at the AMC conference in Nashville I heard. The first 45 minutes could have been preached at Christ Church but then when he got to the application of his sermon he applied it in an extreme way to justify him not allowing anybody in his church to have the internet and nobody under the age of 18 can have a cell phone. Can you say cult?

[pentecostisalive]

What is it about ultra cons and 2 hour sermons? Do they not think they can get a point across in a reasonable amount of time?

From what I am hearing about the first 40 minutes being great and setting some great principles out only to then have them moulded to preconceived notions and positions must also be an ultra con device because that is exactly what the ultra con pastor from Colorado did at the AMC conference in Nashville I heard. The first 45 minutes could have been preached at Christ Church but then when he got to the application of his sermon he applied it in an extreme way to justify him not allowing anybody in his church to have the internet and nobody under the age of 18 can have a cell phone. Can you say cult?

I don't know if you have listened to Bro. Pixler's message or not, but he was very clear that he needed all of that time to get his point across. Sometimes, it does take more than 20 minutes to get all of your message conveyed correctly.

He did hold my attention and I think that he held his audiences attention for most of the 2 hours. He is a very capable teacher.

Paul, the Apostolic (who was also an ultra-con, by this forum's definition) preached long sermons as well. We know of at least one person that fell asleep and fell out of the window during his sermon.

[Maple Leaf]

can someone tell me why they say segwayed? I know what one of those are, how did the word get used this way?

A preacher segwaying from one part of the sermon to another is an amusing word picture, but I expect he really meant that the preacher segued from revelation to opinion.

segue

1. Music. To make a transition directly from one section or theme to another.

2. To move smoothly and unhesitatingly from one state, condition, situation, or element to another: “Daylight segued into dusk” (Susan Dworski).

[pelathais]

A preacher segwaying from one part of the sermon to another is an amusing word picture, but I expect he really meant that the preacher segued from revelation to opinion.

segue

1. Music. To make a transition directly from one section or theme to another.

2. To move smoothly and unhesitatingly from one state, condition, situation, or element to another: “Daylight segued into dusk” (Susan Dworski).
Thank you.

However, to add to the confusion of some readers the phrase "segwayed" is thrown about in a clever off-handed manner. It's a sort of faux naivite in which the two wheeled scooter is substituted for the traditional use of segue as you've defined above.

London's TimesOnline (http://women.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/women/relationships/article2901748.ece) famously (or infamously) confounded the terms and then instead of trying to appear clever they caved and confessed ignorance and corrected the offending verbiage (24th paragragh - be warned, the language is coarse - typically Labour Party British).

[Baron1710]

What is it about ultra cons and 2 hour sermons? Do they not think they can get a point across in a reasonable amount of time?

From what I am hearing about the first 40 minutes being great and setting some great principles out only to then have them moulded to preconceived notions and positions must also be an ultra con device because that is exactly what the ultra con pastor from Colorado did at the AMC conference in Nashville I heard. The first 45 minutes could have been preached at Christ Church but then when he got to the application of his sermon he applied it in an extreme way to justify him not allowing anybody in his church to have the internet and nobody under the age of 18 can have a cell phone. Can you say cult?

I don't know if you have listened to Bro. Pixler's message or not, but he was very clear that he needed all of that time to get his point across. Sometimes, it does take more than 20 minutes to get all of your message conveyed correctly.

He did hold my attention and I think that he held his audiences attention for most of the 2 hours. He is a very capable teacher.

Paul, the Apostolic (who was also an ultra-con, by this forum's definition) preached long sermons as well. We know of at least one person that fell asleep and fell out of the window during his sermon.

I did listen to it, painful as it was to listen to someone go off topic about every other minute. This was poorly put together in terms of time management. One rabbit trail after another, what took him an hour for background could have been effectively delivered in no more than 10-15 min.

As for his main point? TV is unusable because the gold from the golden calf was ground up (making the leap that it was not redeemable)...I fail to see the connection here.

[Baron1710]

If you just take his three main points about technology you will do fine (and could easily fit it in a 15 minute sermon).

1. discernment
2. discipline
3. dominion

The problem is he says these are not possible with TV. The Form of TV is in and of itself sinful, "Form is corrupt, not just the content." Yet he talks about youtube and watching "clips" on the computer.

How out of touch is this message? He thinks MTV is the standard in television and that MTV is all about playing music videos.

[pentecostisalive]

I disagree with many of your posts on this thread. Steve Pixler does not chase many rabbits, but says most things with purpose and intent.

He said alot of things in context of the entire message, but the following was his main point in my view.

He talked about gold and how that God made it, however man made a form out of it that was unacceptable, and therefore God called gold an idol and rejected it on his people. (Not trying to start a wedding band argument, although it applies)

The same is true with TV. God made the capabilities, but man has perverted the very medium, and therefore it cannot be used by God's people. The very medium to be successful needs to editted to appeal to the senses. The very nature of the medium brings the message and messenger into its submission.

He used the scripture where Paul stated that he would brought under the power of no one. It is a powerful application.

That is my understanding from what I remember and everything in his message related to this overall theme.

[Pastor Keith]

I disagree with many of your posts on this thread. Steve Pixler does not chase many rabbits, but says most things with purpose and intent.

He said alot of things in context of the entire message, but the following was his main point in my view.

He talked about gold and how that God made it, however man made a form out of it that was unacceptable, and therefore God called gold an idol and rejected it on his people. (Not trying to start a wedding band argument, although it applies)

The same is true with TV. God made the capabilities, but man has perverted the very medium, and therefore it cannot be used by God's people. The very medium to be successful needs to editted to appeal to the senses. The very nature of the medium brings the message and messenger into its submission.

He used the scripture where Paul stated that he would brought under the power of no one. It is a powerful application.

That is my understanding from what I remember and everything in his message related to this overall theme.

Classic error, instead getting rid of the idol in our hearts, the outward is far easier and pays less dividends.

[pentecostisalive]

Classic error, instead getting rid of the idol in our hearts, the outward is far easier and pays less dividends.

God made a classic error when he told them to get rid of their idols which was physical jewelry.....?

[Baron1710]

God made a classic error when he told them to get rid of their idols which was physical jewelry.....?

Um where exactly is that???

[CC1]

A preacher segwaying from one part of the sermon to another is an amusing word picture, but I expect he really meant that the preacher segued from revelation to opinion.

segue

1. Music. To make a transition directly from one section or theme to another.

2. To move smoothly and unhesitatingly from one state, condition, situation, or element to another: “Daylight segued into dusk” (Susan Dworski).

If a preacher were to segway from one part of his sermon to another he would have to be careful not to fall off and hurt himself!

Someday I am going to segway. I could have rented a segway in Honolulu earlier this year but I think they were around $100 for an hour.

[Pastor Keith]

God made a classic error when he told them to get rid of their idols which was physical jewelry.....?

OT which as a shadow of the reality to come, remember the New Covenant changes man from the inside out. Not the other way.

[Sister Alvear]

I disagree with many of your posts on this thread. Steve Pixler does not chase many rabbits, but says most things with purpose and intent.

He said alot of things in context of the entire message, but the following was his main point in my view.

He talked about gold and how that God made it, however man made a form out of it that was unacceptable, and therefore God called gold an idol and rejected it on his people. (Not trying to start a wedding band argument, although it applies)

The same is true with TV. God made the capabilities, but man has perverted the very medium, and therefore it cannot be used by God's people. The very medium to be successful needs to editted to appeal to the senses. The very nature of the medium brings the message and messenger into its submission.

He used the scripture where Paul stated that he would brought under the power of no one. It is a powerful application.

That is my understanding from what I remember and everything in his message related to this overall theme.


I have NOT listened to the message and what I am about to say is nothing against Brother Pixler in any way but I do feel there are other things to consider. It stands to reason we cannot consider all things in one message or in a month of messages but we can find a principle to live by.
Would a gold color watch be wrong in your opinion if I understood you said rings were wrong because of the gold? A gold ink pen? Anything with gold in it?
What about a gold color necktie? A gold color scarf? What about all those flashy buttons expensive cars, golden decorations?
I am not asking trying to prove wrong or right I am asking where we find a sense of balance. I believe many of us are over nourished on entertainment, fleshly pleasures, keeping up with the church across town however sadly we are undernourished on the bread of life.
Internet is one of the most evil devices of our day yet if we know how to use it; it becomes one of the greatest blessings of our day.
In God´s heaven, his home it is full of gold, crystal, pearls and all kinds of splendor… The real sin is in us foolish humans that are pronged to make idols of about anything.

Talking about gold many people have teeth filling in gold especially strange as it may seem in foreign countries were the people are so poor.
Is God against lavish lifestyles? Would he (God) send someone to hell to burn forever because of a 100 ring and send someone to heaven that blew their money on countless antiques, eloquent expensive clothes, animal skin shoes and far away vacations? People who try to impress others with newest cell phones and all kinds of gadgets?
Do we spend wildly our money while the world races off to hell while we live in our mansions with closed doors?
Our lives one day will be weighed in the light of eternity not by a church manual. (they all read different)
And no I do not have a TV or wear a ring…however God judges different than man. We had better get our act together! The same Bible that says not the wearing of gold also speaks about expensive clothes. Someone said 200 dollar shoes is not expensive to a millionaire or how expensive is expensive...and on and on goes the case...I have always felt either it means ALL the scrpture or none of it.

We must seek permanent treasures, the part that will never be taken away from us—those who “hunger and thirst after righteousness” (Matt. 5:6)

[theoldpaths]

Um where exactly is that???

I believe he was referring to...

Ge 35:2 Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments:
Ge 35:3 And let us arise, and go up to Bethel; and I will make there an altar unto God, who answered me in the day of my distress, and was with me in the way which I went.
Ge 35:4 And they gave unto Jacob all the strange gods which were in their hand, and all their earrings which were in their ears; and Jacob hid them under the oak which was by Shechem.

[theoldpaths]

As many of you, Bro. Steve Pixler is one of the most brilliant minds in Pentecost. He recently preached in Calgary, Alberta on "Technology and Dominion". I am listening to it now, and it is very interesting. It is almost 2 hours long, although he is such a good teacher that it doesn't seem that long.

http://www.truthchurch.com/page.php?ID=23

There is also other messages that he preached at that camp.

I was there in person for the evening services and enjoyed Bro Pixler very much - a very gifted piano player (i want to get some of his cd's) and singer, as well as a very good preacher.

I haven't heard the above message, but sounds very, very interesting.

[reubstr]

I know this is an old post. I know what I post may not be read. But I must reply.

I haven't heard the message listed, but I have heard the same message preached somewhere else.

I know him well. Once you know someone well enough you can assume a few things about them and that is what I am about to do.

Let me first say that those who have posted as though he was a tight fisted ultra conservative do not know him. He holds to some very conservative values, but he lords / controls / tells / polices NO ONE outside the walls of his own home by telling them what to do. That is were ultra conservatives get it wrong and push or force their opinions on others. He doesn't do that.

I am going to assume that he did not chase rabbits during his sermon. I am going to assume that he COULD HAVE summed up the first 45 minutes in 10 minutes better than anyone else I know, but chose deliberately not to do so to allow the spoken word to be like 'apples of gold in pictures of silver.' He is a master at minimizing what needs to be said all the way down to the core. And he believes in driving a point, not chasing rabbits.

I am also going to assume that the assertion that he is anti-continued education is wrong because I know that he is FOR continued education and against the ‘gotta stay in the backwoods’ mentality. I will assume he believes (because I have heard him say it) we should be learning more to excel in the areas listed. Art, music, etc. (cant remember all the ones listed now). ALL that we do, should be done as unto the LORD. I am a network / sys admin. I should master what I do better than anyone else around me. Because it is more than my job I do when I am not at church. It IS PART OF my service to the LORD all the time.

He is very considerate of the time and though there are many times his sermons go 2 hours, but for everyone that does, there are 4 times as many 45-60 minutes ones.

For all the critics on here who get hung up on small points (like the length of the sermon or that he is ultra conservative), let me be a small and insignifigant voice to say, Bro Pixler is the most sincere, the least 'imposing upon others' AND is more careful to not burden 1 person with something that isn't explicitly in black and white than anyone else I know.

[DAII]

I know this is an old post. I know what I post may not be read. But I must reply.

I haven't heard the message listed, but I have heard the same message preached somewhere else.

I know him well. Once you know someone well enough you can assume a few things about them and that is what I am about to do.

Let me first say that those who have posted as though he was a tight fisted ultra conservative do not know him. He holds to some very conservative values, but he lords / controls / tells / polices NO ONE outside the walls of his own home by telling them what to do. That is were ultra conscervatives get it wrong and push or force their opinions on others. He doesn't do that.

I am going to assume that he did not chase rabbits during his sermon. I am going to assume that he COULD HAVE summed up the first 45 minutes in 10 minutes better than anyone else I know, but chose deliberately not to do so to allow the spoken word to be like 'apples of gold in pictures of silver.' He is a master at minimizing what needs to be said all the way down to the core. And he believes in driving a point, not chasing rabbits.

I am also going to assume that the assertion that he is anti-continued education is wrong because I know that he is FOR continued education and against the ‘gotta stay in the backwoods’ mentality. I will assume he believes (because I have heard him say it) we should be learning more to excel in the areas listed. Art, music, etc. (cant remember all the ones listed now). ALL that we do, should be done as unto the LORD. I am a network / sys admin. I should master what I do better than anyone else around me. Because it is more than my job I do when I am not at church. It IS PART OF my service to the LORD all the time.

He is very considerate of the time and though there are many times his sermons go 2 hours, but for everyone that does, there are 4 times as many 45-60 minutes ones.

For all the critics on here who get hung up on small points (like the length of the sermon or that he is ultra conservative), let me be a small and insignifigant voice to say, Bro Pixler is the most sincere, the least 'imposing upon others' AND is more careful to not burden 1 person with something that isn't explicitly in black and white than anyone else I know.

Mabye you're right ... but I didn't read much of what you have here in this post in this thread...

Tell you one thing, if he preaches for 2 hours ... he definitely doesn't respect people's time.

[reubstr]

Tell you one thing if he preaches for 2 hours ... he definitely doesn't respect people's time.

I wasn't there, so I can't answer for this specific situation.

But there is a time and a place to take your time. If you are asked to greet the congregation, 10 minutes is to long. 5 minutes is even pushing it. But if you are speaking somewhere, and people have gotten on planes to come to the meeting, and others have driven hours and states away to be at the meeting. And it is a 1 time a year event. I think there is a time that taking a long time is more than acceptable, but more appropriate than not.

If I am going to take the time to rush home from work, rush through a dinner with my family, rush through the shower to get to church in my own town, I would hope to be there long enough to make it worth my while. Depending on what is going on, that may be 45 minutes. Then again, it may be 2 hours.

I bet the apostle Peter was glad they spent more than 45 minutes praying for him when he was in Jail... (I know, I know... prayer - preaching... but notice the point)

There is a time to go for a while is my point.

[bishoph]

Mabye you're right ... but I didn't read much of what you have here in this post ...

Tell you one thing if he preaches for 2 hours ... he definitely doesn't respect people's time.

I think what most people are missing is that this was not an evening service.....this was a day teaching session where he had a two hour window. IMHO that is much different from a two hour evening/Sunday "preaching" message. However, knowing Bro. Pixler, I can say he is one of the few preachers that I could listen to for two hours.

[DAII]

Reub, you now describe an anomaly but your previous post puts the hour preachings compared to 2 hour Pixler preachings at a 4:1 ratio.

Which one is it?

I agree that mid week service should be worth the while but equating time lapsed with quality content seems faulty.

A pastor needs to consider people's time especially if they are benefitting from their generous giving that comes from their toil.

[RandyWayne]

I had to re-read my own comments in order to remember the sermon, and what I remember is that it WAS a bit long but that wasn't the issue so much as the content.

[DAII]

Also, making the Sunday night exception in no way should give license to not considering those who have work and kids to take to school the next morning on what is often for many their day off.

[DAII]

I think what most people are missing is that this was not an evening service.....this was a day teaching session where he had a two hour window. IMHO that is much different from a two hour evening/Sunday "preaching" message. However, knowing Bro. Pixler, I can say he is one of the few preachers that I could listen to for two hours.


Just trying to reconcile this and Reub's (a member, it seems) .... following statements with this original statement about the alleged high frequency of 2 hour preachings of Pixler.


He is very considerate of the time and though there are many times his sermons go 2 hours, but for everyone that does, there are 4 times as many 45-60 minutes ones.

[DAII]

I'd dare say ... that an hour is stretching it ...

And I've preached that long.

All that can be said and needs to said ... can be said in 30 to 45 minutes ....

[bishoph]

I'd dare say ... that an hour is stretching it ...

And I've preached that long.

All that can be said and needs to said ... can be said in 30 to 45 minutes ....

I agree, however a "teaching" format is altogether different IMHO. (According to post 43 "TheOLDPATHS" was in attendance for this meetings evening services but did not hear this message which indicates it was a day session which is typically a 1-2 hour time slot.) I have taught for around two hours many times and have never had any complaints......... I have never preached two hours.

[DAII]

I agree, however a "teaching" format is altogether different IMHO. (According to post 43 "TheOLDPATHS" was in attendance for this meetings evening services but did not hear this message which indicates it was a day session which is typically a 1-2 hour time slot.) I have taught for around two hours many times and have never had any complaints......... I have never preached two hours.

In my experience, I think saints are respectful, appreciative and even congratulatory when they receive good teaching that lasts longer than usual or is succinct... it still speaks however ... to whether or not ... conscious decisions were made to time management and people's valuable time being made by the preacher.

We shouldn't however discount that we may have not been considerate as to their very busy schedules in a post-modern society filled with traffic, commute times, homework, etc .... which ultimately bring food to a full-time minister's table.

I think it speaks to mutual respect and knowing something about ..... effectiveness .... as we know that many do not retain a lot of what is said ... especially if drawn out and doesn't allow for practicum or processing.

[DAII]

I teach every day of the week, BishopH ... to those those with learning disabilities ... and concede lecture has its benefits.... but can be ineffective if not succinct, tight, concise, and doesn't emphasize the big picture.

I could envision 2 hours if there is a variety of modalities and activities being presented ... even in a church setting.

There needs to be a break if one intends to go beyond 40-60 minutes.

[reubstr]

Reub, you now describe an anomaly but your previous post puts the hour preachings compared to 2 hour Pixler preachings at a 4:1 ratio.

Which one is it?


It was mearly a figure of speech. Maybe I should have said 15 or 20 to one to be more exact.

On the Sunday night deal, kids to school, early to work deal. I completely agree. (though my kids aren't in school yet) Where I attend the Pastor is very considerate about time, and though we are rarely in church past 8:45 or 9 on Sunday night, we don't rush. If that makes sense.

[reubstr]

Also, making the Sunday night exception in no way should give license to not considering those who have work and kids to take to school the next morning on what is often for many their day off.

I think what he meant was opposite what you are saying. That he agrees with you on the Sunday night sermon lasting 2 hours IS taking to much of peoples time.

[DAII]

It was mearly a figure of speech. Maybe I should have said 15 or 20 to one to be more exact.

On the Sunday night deal, kids to school, early to work deal. I completely agree. (though my kids aren't in school yet) Where I attend the Pastor is very considerate about time, and though we are rarely in church past 8:45 or 9 on Sunday night, we don't rush. If that makes sense.

I figured it might be hyperbole ... I tell you what ... once your kids get older you will be watching the clock a little bit more ... with the demands and rigors that schooling brings ...

projects, sleepy children, homework, extra commute time ... etc.

I come from a setting that we were in church 3-4 times a week ... and had the morning and evening service on Sunday for well over 2 decades .... Spanish folks can do church for 5-6 hours.

Thankfully Dad realized this over time ... and made necessary changes.

Personally, I think it took it's toll on many of the kids in church that I grew up with and observed....

Many not even finishing high school ... and I think the 'overchurching' played a role.

In the end ... affecting the assembly in the long run.

We want our kids to go to college and succeed but then as a church community at times hinder it. A sorrowful contradiction, IMO.

[DeuteronomyCh8]

In my experience, I think saints are respectful, appreciative and even congratulatory when they receive good teaching that lasts longer than usual or is succinct... it still speaks however ... to whether or not ... conscious decisions were made to time management and people's valuable time were made by the preacher.

I think it speaks to mutual respect and knowing something about ..... effectiveness as we know that many do not retain a lot of what is said ... especially if drawn out.
:scripture:scripture:scripture

I must say that if one can spend two hours on the internet or watching television or even gossiping on that cell phone, they could handle a two hour message from the ministry. I guess it would depend on ones hunger for the word of GOD.

"...it pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE them that believe."
1 Corinthians 1:21

I've never heard someone with a prayer life complain that the man of GOD took to long.
I've never heard someone who bares fruits of the SPIRIT complain that the service lasted too long.

To be honest.....I've never witnessed the rebellious spirits of so many "so called Apostolics" that are so critical of the MINISTRY. It puzzles me where the reverence and respect for the MINISTRY has gone.

When the MAN of GOD stops becoming the VOICE of GOD in your life.......friend you are in trouble.

If you want rhyme and reason for why television is unhealthy for "PRAYING APOSTOLICS" I can do that. But some of you are trying to debate the Apostolic doctrine with people in this forum that ARE NOT APOSTOLICS.
When a veil is over someone's eyes......ONLY GOD CAN SHOW THEM.

Romans 13:4
"For he is the minister of GOD to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vein: for he is the minister of GOD."

You can argue over opinions, but you can't argue against the scriptures. :scripture

[DeuteronomyCh8]

As for Steve Pixler........He's a fine man, and highly annointed of GOD.

[reubstr]

Perhaps, maybe even not perhaps, alot of what you say is true. But, people will invest (time and money) in what they love.

... with the demands and rigors ...



On another note, it isn't really fair to assume anything about my schedule without knowing it. Or even to imply that it isn't as busy as yours or someone elses. Trust me, my plate stays full.

One last note... the one thing I hate about "Text" conversations is they so often come across as terse or uncordial. I hope all that I have written is taken in a kind fashion as I have written it. :) (kindly)

[reubstr]

As for Steve Pixler........He's a fine man, and highly annointed of GOD.

Very True.

[DeuteronomyCh8]

You are exactly right. People pay no mention to time when its something they enjoy. The... I work and have kids excuse is highly overated. But they argue in the Apostolic Friends Forum for 3 hours over NOTHING!:blah

[DAII]

Perhaps, maybe even not perhaps, alot of what you say is true. But, people will invest (time and money) in what they love.



On another note, it isn't really fair to assume anything about my schedule without knowing it. Or even to imply that it isn't as busy as yours or someone elses. Trust me, my plate stays full.

One last note... the one thing I hate about "Text" conversations is they so often come across as terse or uncordial. I hope all that I have written is taken in a kind fashion as I have written it. :) (kindly)

1. Kudos on defending your pastor and adding perspective to your experience as a church member there ... Personally, I don't know Pixler from a hole in the wall ...

2. I in no way was implying that plate is not already full ... or do not have a very busy schedule ....

simply ... My point was that school aged children add an extra layer to the rigors and demands of the customary work week schedule ....

Having had 2 toddlers myself ... I know they are a handful ...

I potty trained the last one on my own ... yes, it is demanding.

[reubstr]

The... I work and have kids excuse is highly overated.

Probably true, but it sounds like DAII is very sensative to the issue of time. It also sounds to me like it is a reasonable issue for him to be sensative to. Since He teaches special needs people everyday, he has to be more atuned to the time someone can listen and still be learning.

We have now strayed a 3 or 4 subjects away from the thread. :) funny how that happens.

[DAII]

You are exactly right. People pay no mention to time when its something they enjoy. The... I work and have kids excuse is highly overated. But they argue in the Apostolic Friends Forum for 3 hours over NOTHING!:blah

The same can be said about a preacher or teacher that rambles ... for 2-3 hours after his points have been made ....

The Word will bear fruit with or without the long-windedness of your favorite preacher.

I have been on both sides of the discussion, Deut ... having ministered and having sat in the pews ...

As a PK, I've come to value the extraordinary efforts of laymen and laywomen who live in the uniqued demands of a post-modern world ... in blended families ... sometimes in single-parent homes working their tails off ... as I've seen a preacher give his life to the cause ....

This is about balance and mutual respect.

A 6 hour service pales to a two hour movie ... and it can breed contempt and prolong a culture that does not have balance.

[reubstr]

The same can be said about a preacher or teacher that rambles ... for 2-3 hours after his points have been made ....


This was 2 hours ON point with a known 2 hour time slot. This isn't about a Sunday Night service.

You said yourself you don't know him from a whole in a wall. That statement allows me to give you room for these remarks. You havent been in service and heard him preach a 30 minute or a 2 hour message. If you did, you would realize quickly that he doesn't ramble on and on and much of this discussion is pointless. :)

[DeuteronomyCh8]

The same can be said about a preacher or teacher that rambles ... for 2-3 hours after his points have been made ....

The Word will bear fruit with or without the long-windedness of your favorite preacher.

I have been on both sides of the discussion, Deut ... having ministered and having sat in the pews ...

As a PK, I've come to value the extraordinary efforts of laymen and laywomen who live in the uniqued demands of a post-modern world ... in blended families ... sometimes in single-parent homes working their tails off ... as I've seen a preacher give his life to the cause ....

This is about balance and mutual respect.

A 6 hour service pales to a two hour movie ... and it can breed contempt and prolong a culture that does not have balance.



No one mentioned a "6 hour service." But that statement alone tells me that you definitely don't have an evangelistic calling. If you had ever been on the missionary field you would see that your statement is a reproach to the Gospel.

2 Timothy 2:4
"No man that warreth entangleth himself with the affairs of this life; that he may please HIM who hath CHOSEN him to be a soldier."

Balance IS important, but YOU must weigh your own time in "JUST" WEIGHT.
Once we weigh ourselves we find that GOD is "given" very little of our time.
If you spend more time "entertaining" yourselves than "entertaining" GOD. Your not going to make it. Self justification is the start of a reprobate mind.

As for laymen and laywomen in the church. I do RESPECT their efforts. BUT lets NOT forget the SELFLESSNESS of the MINISTRY as well. Friend, when its all said and done the saints go home. But the mission and the burden still remains with the ministry. There is NO off time for the MINISTRY.

The laity must be respected no doubt. But the biggest responsibility os to feed the flock. PLEASE remember:

1 Corinthians 14:32
"And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets"

[DeuteronomyCh8]

"you're" not )sorry for improper spelling.

[DAII]

Thus sayest a forum troll.

Deut,
No balance. No fruit.

In the Church we all minister 24/7 and are most effective outside the walls where we assemble.
Sorry you measure your spirituality and calling on the hours logged in.

Nuff said.

[DeuteronomyCh8]

Tell Paul that "long windedness" is not required.
Tell Jesus that "long windedness" is not required.
Tell John the Baptist, Moses, Daniel and Elijah.

Question...

Have you ever really STUDIED your BIBLE?

2 Timothy 2:15
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

[deltaguitar]

The best preachers in the world don't usually speak for over an hour. Lets be real, how many pastors actually prepare enough so that they have true content for an hour sermon. I have witnessed this before where a preacher can preach long winded and still have value in his sermon but it is usually very rare.

[DeuteronomyCh8]

Thus sayest a forum troll.

Deut,
No balance. No fruit.

In the Church we all minister 24/7 and are most effective is outside the walls of where we assemble.
Sorry you measure your spirituality and calling on the hours logged in.

Nuff said.


Is prayer and worship effective? What about "hearing" the word? MY BIBLE says :

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17


Friend, praytell me scripture for your remarks. (?) These are NOT my words but GOD's words.

Whats this balance you refer to? Your time versus God's time. Have you ignored the scriptures.

If I sat in a service to hear a 30 minute "sermonet" to tickle my fancy and was dimissed to my own time.........well I'd find another service before the night was out.

Reminds me. People spend more time eating dinner after church than it took to get fed the Word of GOD. It's laughable at best. (but not real funny)

And YES I judge my "spirituality and calling" by the hours I'm logged in. Thats an excellent way of putting it.

:shockamoo

[RandyWayne]

The best preachers in the world don't usually speak for over an hour. Lets be real, how many pastors actually prepare enough so that they have true content for an hour sermon. I have witnessed this before where a preacher can preach long winded and still have value in his sermon but it is usually very rare.

Usually the deepest subjects can be brought up and thoroughly discussed in less then an hour IF the person stays on point.

[Jeffrey]

Who cares if there is a special event, seminar or day-time agenda where the speaker goes longer than our normal format. Jesus preached long enough that they needed lunch. Let's not get off-point here.

[DeuteronomyCh8]

The best preachers in the world don't usually speak for over an hour. Lets be real, how many pastors actually prepare enough so that they have true content for an hour sermon. I have witnessed this before where a preacher can preach long winded and still have value in his sermon but it is usually very rare.


Best preachers?????? This statement concerns me. Whats a "BEST" preacher?

Have you ever listened to Verbal Bean? Carl Ballestero? Ike Terry? Larry Booker? Johnathan Alvear? Steve McMullen? Tim Copeland? R.G. "Bud" Davis?
Phil White? Joel Holmes? Caleb Adams? Wade Townley? Joseph Abshire? Danny Perdew? Johnny King? Ray Majors? Keith Hood? Vaughn Morton? O.R. Fauss? L.E. Robertson?

I've got 212 more if needed. (?) And I've heard them ALL preach over an hour. Most of them close to two hours. One was 4 hrs!

AND I LOVED IT!

[DAII]

Best preachers?????? This statement concerns me. Whats a "BEST" preacher?

Have you ever listened to Verbal Bean? Carl Ballestero? Ike Terry? Larry Booker? Johnathan Alvear? Steve McMullen? Tim Copeland? R.G. "Bud" Davis?
Phil White? Joel Holmes? Caleb Adams? Wade Townley? Joseph Abshire? Danny Perdew? Johnny King? Ray Majors? Keith Hood? Vaughn Morton? O.R. Fauss? L.E. Robertson?

I've got 212 more if needed. (?) And I've heard them ALL preach over an hour. Most of them close to two hours. One was 4 hrs!

AND I LOVED IT!


You forgot Westberg.

[DAII]

Is prayer and worship effective? What about "hearing" the word? MY BIBLE says :

"So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:17


Friend, praytell me scripture for your remarks. (?) These are NOT my words but GOD's words.

Whats this balance you refer to? Your time versus God's time. Have you ignored the scriptures.

If I sat in a service to hear a 30 minute "sermonet" to tickle my fancy and was dimissed to my own time.........well I'd find another service before the night was out.

Reminds me. People spend more time eating dinner after church than it took to get fed the Word of GOD. It's laughable at best. (but not real funny)

And YES I judge my "spirituality and calling" by the hours I'm logged in. Thats an excellent way of putting it.

:shockamoo

The hearing of the Word in your Levitical mindset happens only when one is doused with the verbiage of one's revered preacher/shaman ....at a baptism or a carbon copied, hopping preaching session every Sunday to be fully saved.

In the NT Church we find ... the priesthood of all believers .... we find that each member has gifts .... each saint ministers while the five-fold ministry perfects the saints so they can minister ...

In your works based paradigm ... spirituality is measured by the amount of hours logged/punched in at the local assembly doing Pentecost and parading dress code holiness ....

In your paradigm preaching the word is reduced to in-house motivational speaking ... inspiring and soliticiting call and response. Petting a man's ego.

And annointed preaching is mistaken for a sweat drenched shirt, tie, suit and pom-poms.

While the rest of the world doesn't admittedly know you exist - see DKB.

Understanding that the eating together in corporate fellowship was just as much the Apostolic church model of Acts as was the preaching of the word ...
Read the sermon transcripts in Acts .... maybe they are just highlights but they presented the Gospel effectively and concisely ... without the theatrics, spit-saturated mic and the obligatory "ahas"" ... we mistake spirituality for ....

A habitual 2 hour preacher is selfish ... not selfless if that preaching is constantly directed in saving the saved and not directed or targeted to the lost.

This 2 hour teaching in particular we can agree was not evangelistic in nature.

[Stephanas]

Every thread needs at least one completely random post.

Here's one for this thread:

I could use a good two hour dose of Michael Durso's teaching about now.

[Timmy]

Tell Paul that "long windedness" is not required.
Tell Jesus that "long windedness" is not required.
Tell John the Baptist, Moses, Daniel and Elijah.

Question...

Have you ever really STUDIED your BIBLE?

2 Timothy 2:15
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Well, if you're gonna preach till midnight, you better know how to raise the dead like Paul did, just in case. :winkgrin

[DeuteronomyCh8]

Every thread needs at least one completely random post.

Here's one for this thread:

I could use a good two hour dose of Michael Durso's teaching about now.

So what are you implying?

[Stephanas]

So what are you implying?

Uh, maybe that I enjoy Michael Durso's teaching.

Or I could have been making a veiled reference to space ships and golden calves, I'm not really sure.

[deltaguitar]

Best preachers?????? This statement concerns me. Whats a "BEST" preacher?

Have you ever listened to Verbal Bean? Carl Ballestero? Ike Terry? Larry Booker? Johnathan Alvear? Steve McMullen? Tim Copeland? R.G. "Bud" Davis?
Phil White? Joel Holmes? Caleb Adams? Wade Townley? Joseph Abshire? Danny Perdew? Johnny King? Ray Majors? Keith Hood? Vaughn Morton? O.R. Fauss? L.E. Robertson?

I've got 212 more if needed. (?) And I've heard them ALL preach over an hour. Most of them close to two hours. One was 4 hrs!

AND I LOVED IT!

When I say best preacher I mean men who have stood the test of times and are world renown. I am not talking about guys who are renown among 300 churches in the world. I am talking about men who pastor churches bigger than your preachers whole fellowship.

I have never heard of any of those guys preach. I will say this. Many of those ultracon preachers are very entertaining speakers.

I have listened to one of John Piper's seminars that is about 9 hours at least 20 times because the concepts in his sermons can be so difficult to grasp.

Could you imagine if he preached too long he would just be wasting his breath because somethings have to be digested over time.

The best sermons allow you to think on them for days into the future and actually require thought and wrestling with the scriptures.

[missourimary]

You forgot Westberg.

Heard him, too. All that I've heard have preached some long and some short. I have some Bro Westberg CDs that go 30 minutes... others longer.

The thing is that time is not the issue. Its the value of the words and what we do with those words once we leave the service that counts.

[missourimary]

Sometimes I have wished no one felt they had to come or had to stay through the end of the message. There are preachers I'd listen to for hours, and their messages changed my life. Some lib, some uc-others anywhere in between. There are conferences I've been in that there would be an hour or two of teaching, some prayer, and then an hour or two more. It got overwhelming at times, it was all so good and my mind couldn't contain it all. I got what I could and then bought the tapes. Some of those tapes are almost worn out, but I still need to hear them sometimes. Some of those messages, long or short, have encouraged me at my darkest hours.

It is the value of the words, and the value we place on them, the impact we allow them to have on our lives, both at the time they are preached and later on, what we do with the words once we hear them... those are the things that count.




Deut, have you heard Bro J Alvear's message, The Fragments that Remain? That is what this discussion has reminded me of. Jesus fed the multitude. After everyone was done eating, they took up 12 baskets full of food that was left. It wasn't just for then, or even just for them. Someone took some of that food home-we remember the message later and enjoy a little more... I can't do it justice here. That one was preached years ago... Anyone who didn't hear it-just go get the tape! :thumbsup

[DeuteronomyCh8]

The hearing of the Word in your Levitical mindset happens only when one is doused with the verbiage of one's revered preacher/shaman ....at a baptism or a carbon copied, hopping preaching session every Sunday to be fully saved.

In the NT Church we find ... the priesthood of all believers .... we find that each member has gifts .... each saint ministers while the five-fold ministry perfects the saints so they can minister ...

In your... spirituality is measured by the amount of hours logged/punched in at the local assembly doing Pentecost and parading dress code holiness ....

In your paradigm preaching the word is reduced to in-house motivational speaking ... inspiring and soliticiting call and response. Petting a man's ego.

And annointed preaching is mistaken for a sweat drenched shirt, tie, suit and pom-poms.

While the rest of the world doesn't admittedly know you exist - see DKB.

Understanding that the eating together in corporate fellowship was just as much the Apostolic church model of Acts as was the preaching of the word ...
Read the sermon transcripts in Acts .... maybe they are just highlights but they presented the Gospel effectively and concisely ... without the theatrics and the "aha"" ... we mistake spirituality for ....

A habitual 2 hour preacher is selfish ... not selfless if that preaching is constantly directed in saving the saved and not directed or targeted to the lost.

This 2 hour teaching in particular we can agree was not evangelistic in nature.


Lets see if I can handle this wisely with you (a non-apostolic) with obviously "limited" knowledge of the BIBLE. But.... wise in your "own opinions" (still no scripture i see)

Hebrews 10:23-25
23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

24And let us consider one another :to provoke unto love and to good works":

25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Thats for your comment on our church services!


As for my "works based paradigm"........

James 2:18-21

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


Uh oh! Did you read that?


As for holiness. Holiness comes from within. It starts with the tongue.
Proverbs 15:4
"A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit."

As for your attack of our "holiness dress code". Might I add that your true "spirit" manifested itself in that attack. (not very christian :)

But holiness is a spirit from within. Our "dress code" is our IDENTITY. Our IDENTITY is a reflection of our spirit of holiness within. (or it should be anyways).

Maybe thats why we preach long winded sometimes....trying to reach the rebellious!

As for "annointing"........
Well It would be like me trying to tell you how to talk in tongues. The veil the Bible refers to.....is man's thinking. Read your BIBLE friend. I pray GOD gives you some revelation.

Friend, you don't reject me or my word.......You reject GOD and HIS WORD.
I've enjoyed the conversation. I hope you have to.

[DAII]

Lets see if I can handle this wisely with you (a non-apostolic) with obviously "limited" knowledge of the BIBLE. But.... wise in your "own opinions" (still no scripture i see)

Hebrews 10:23-25
23Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised;)

24And let us consider one another :to provoke unto love and to good works":

25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching.

Thats for your comment on our church services!


As for my "works based paradigm"........

James 2:18-21

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

19Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

20But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?


Uh oh! Did you read that?


As for holiness. Holiness comes from within. It starts with the tongue.
Proverbs 15:4
"A wholesome tongue is a tree of life: but perverseness therein is a breach in the spirit."

As for your attack of our "holiness dress code". Might I add that your true "spirit" manifested itself in that attack. (not very christian :)

But holiness is a spirit from within. Our "dress code" is our IDENTITY. Our IDENTITY is a reflection of our spirit of holiness within. (or it should be anyways).

Maybe thats why we preach long winded sometimes....trying to reach the rebellious!

As for "annointing"........
Well It would be like me trying to tell you how to talk in tongues. The veil the Bible refers to.....is man's thinking. Read your BIBLE friend. I pray GOD gives you some revelation.

Friend, you don't reject me or my word.......You reject GOD and HIS WORD.
I've enjoyed the conversation. I hope you have to.

Friend, I know good bible prooftexting when I see it ... and your pet Identity is Wesley's and Amman's...

Trust me ... I can rattle off bible with the best of them ... but bible-quipping trolls get the hand.

Love ya, too.

[DAII]

DEUT, be a chum and entertain ..... start a thread on how to talk in tongues ....

[MrMasterMind]

(still no scripture i see)



ROFLOL not to worry he can cut and paste with the best of them.

[DAII]

ROFLOL not to worry he can cut and paste with the best of them.
I smell more forum trolls.

[DeuteronomyCh8]

Friend, I know good bible prooftexting when I see it ... and your pet Identity is Wesley's and Amman's...

Trust me ... I can rattle off bible with the best of them ... but bible-quipping trolls get the hand.

Love ya, too.

Actually, Blue Letter Bible. It's my quick reference to cut down on my typing time.

But you are cowardly at best. Your spirit has been exposed. You have resorted to childish means of trying to degrade someone. Your use of under handed snide remarks bears witness of you.

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
1 John 4:1

"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"
Matthew 7:16


The fruit of your conversation has made you known. As for the previous insinuation that you are a minister........I pity anyone who has harkened to your voice or followed in your leadership.

Attitude is everything. You have displayed one that is "vile" in nature.

If the WORD offends you............;)

[DAII]

Actually, Blue Letter Bible. It's my quick reference to cut down on my typing time.

But you are cowardly at best. Your spirit has been exposed. You have resorted to childish means of trying to degrade someone. Your use of under handed snide remarks bears witness of you.

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
1 John 4:1

"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"
Matthew 7:16


The fruit of your conversation has made you known. As for the previous insinuation that you are a minister........I pity anyone who has harkened to your voice or followed in your leadership.

Attitude is everything. You have displayed one that is "vile" in nature.

If the WORD offends you............;)

Okay ... you got me. I'm exposed.

You win. I lose.

And this is like your 11th post EVER... you're the new reigning champ, tiger.

[DeuteronomyCh8]

Okay ... you got me. I'm exposed.

You win. I lose.

And this is like your 11th post EVER... you're the new reigning champ, tiger.

Once again....my point is proven. There thats the 12th since your counting.
:2cents

[Jason B]

Paul, the Apostolic (who was also an ultra-con, by this forum's definition) preached long sermons as well. We know of at least one person that fell asleep and fell out of the window during his sermon.

Paul would be a liberal in todays pentecostal culture, have you not read Romans 14?

[Jason B]

i disagree with many of your posts on this thread. Steve pixler does not chase many rabbits, but says most things with purpose and intent.

He said alot of things in context of the entire message, but the following was his main point in my view.

he talked about gold and how that god made it, however man made a form out of it that was unacceptable, and therefore god called gold an idol and rejected it on his people. (not trying to start a wedding band argument, although it applies)

the same is true with tv. God made the capabilities, but man has perverted the very medium, and therefore it cannot be used by god's people. The very medium to be successful needs to editted to appeal to the senses. The very nature of the medium brings the message and messenger into its submission.

he used the scripture where paul stated that he would brought under the power of no one. It is a powerful application.

That is my understanding from what i remember and everything in his message related to this overall theme.

s-t-r-e-t-c-h

[Apocrypha]

Paul would be a liberal in todays pentecostal culture, have you not read Romans 14?

pfft... like anyone would do a expository series on Colossians in a UPC church anyhow. They avoid the epistles outside of trigger verses out of fear of going off the edge of their doctrinal map anyhow (here be dragons!). I have yet to hear a UPC pastor teach a multiweek sermon series on any of the epistles especially Romans. Heck they had a hard enough time doing it in bible college in book specific classes without nearly re-writing the entire intention of the book and sticking only to KJV to slant it to their interpretation.

[RandyWayne]

Who cares if there is a special event, seminar or day-time agenda where the speaker goes longer than our normal format. Jesus preached long enough that they needed lunch. Let's not get off-point here.

The length of time is close to being a non-issue here. I have sat for hours listening to deep teaching (religious or otherwise) and have developed serious cases of restless leg syndrome at other times within 15 minutes when it was mind-numbing dull.
(But I DO think there is a special punishment reserved in the afterlife for those who say "Now I am fixin to end soon.... promise...." -for 30 to 45 minutes, usually for the sole purpose of getting a "preach it!" or three from the audience for personal validation.)

My sole problem with Steve Pixler in this case, is the message itself.

[Jason B]

For all the critics on here who get hung up on small points (like the length of the sermon or that he is ultra conservative), let me be a small and insignifigant voice to say, Bro Pixler is the most sincere, the least 'imposing upon others' AND is more careful to not burden 1 person with something that isn't explicitly in black and white than anyone else I know.

So where exactly is it stated "explicity" that you can't have a TV, but can have the internet, and watch youtube?

[Apocrypha]

Wanna hear a sermon that will blow you away? A 24-carat gold sermon that your gonna download and stick on your iPod?

Reaping the corners of the field by Bishop Samuel Smith of the AWCF.
http://growingchurch.info/?page_id=296

Thats a sermon... in fact I loved it so much I added it to my website because it moved me and is super for either new converts (several got the holy spirit that day) or veteran saints. Its a near perfect sermon. Its off topic but I listened to Pixlers sermon and its drivel overall and I just wanted to throw up some good preaching to take away the aftertaste.

[Praxeas]

I think if someone knows before hand their teaching is going to be long they need to not have a long drawn out song service and have an intermission somewhere in there

[oletime]

can someone tell me why they say segwayed? I know what one of those are, how did the word get used this way?

because they dont know its spelled segue?

[DeuteronomyCh8]

pfft... like anyone would do a expository series on Colossians in a UPC church anyhow. They avoid the epistles outside of trigger verses out of fear of going off the edge of their doctrinal map anyhow (here be dragons!). I have yet to hear a UPC pastor teach a multiweek sermon series on any of the epistles especially Romans. Heck they had a hard enough time doing it in bible college in book specific classes without nearly re-writing the entire intention of the book and sticking only to KJV to slant it to their interpretation.

Not sure what you know about Apostolic doctrine, but we use all of the epistles. You're just rambling.

[DeuteronomyCh8]

@Apochrypha: BTW thats why its called Apostolic (its based on the Apostles writings) including the epistles.

[Jason B]

so where exactly is it stated "explicity" that you can't have a tv, but can have the internet, and watch youtube?

bump :D

[Jason B]

You forgot Westberg.

I heard Bro. Westburg preach " A self Examination" during one point he screams out "We need a Phinehas to put a javelin through the heart of some of these trinitarian lovin' dudes!!!!!":eek:

Maybe its just me, but I kind of thought that was over the top.

[missourimary]

Where is it stated explicitly? Right here:
Thou shalt not have television in thy homes, for it is a wicked thing which you would put before thine eyes. It would become as an idol to you, and on it thou wouldest see every vain and wicked imagination of man's heart (if you left it on all the time, anyway). Internet and YouTube are acceptable as long as they remain designated for work and outreach purposes, because through them thou wilt not be exposed to commercials. (Even if you do waste more time finding things on YouTube than ever before thought possible).
Book of.... *ahem* well...

:haloplug

[Jason B]

Actually, Blue Letter Bible. It's my quick reference to cut down on my typing time.

But you are cowardly at best. Your spirit has been exposed. You have resorted to childish means of trying to degrade someone. Your use of under handed snide remarks bears witness of you.
"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world."
1 John 4:1

"Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?"
Matthew 7:16


The fruit of your conversation has made you known. As for the previous insinuation that you are a minister........I pity anyone who has harkened to your voice or followed in your leadership.

Attitude is everything. You have displayed one that is "vile" in nature.

If the WORD offends you............;)

Pot meet kettle....how do you do?:ursofunny

DA brings alot upon himself, but exactly how does this justify YOUR holiness? What about turn the other cheek?

[DAII]

I heard Bro. Westburg reach " A self Examination" during one point he screams out "We need a Phinehas to put a javelin through the heart of some of these trinitarian lovin' dudes!!!!!":eek:

Maybe its just me, but I kind of thought that was over the top.

Now that is classic! Maybe he meant metaphorically?

[DAII]

Pot meet kettle....how do you do?:ursofunny

DA brings alot upon himself, but exactly how does this justify YOUR holiness? What about turn the other cheek?

He outdid himself in the DKB thread where I am called a liar and assassin.

Yawn.

[missourimary]

Now that is classic! Maybe he meant metaphorically?

He didn't mean physically, but spiritually, by putting an end to those kinds of fellowships, I believe. Not sure. I don't have that specific tape... But I've heard the same statement from him or his associates a few times through the years.

[Sam]

Where is it stated explicitly? Right here:
Thou shalt not have television in thy homes, for it is a wicked thing which you would put before thine eyes. It would become as an idol to you, and on it thou wouldest see every vain and wicked imagination of man's heart (if you left it on all the time, anyway). Internet and YouTube are acceptable as long as they remain designated for work and outreach purposes, because through them thou wilt not be exposed to commercials. (Even if you do waste more time finding things on YouTube than ever before thought possible).
Book of.... *ahem* well...

:haloplug

Quoting the sacred book (Manual) is not the same as quoting the other God-breathed writings known as "the Bible."

[missourimary]

Quoting the sacred book (Manual) is not the same as quoting the other God-breathed writings known as "the Bible."

That one didn't even make it as far as the manual, though it may appear in some churches' bylaws...

[missourimary]

Funny thing (and very sad) to me is some of SP's contemporaries would have fried him for watching YouTube, and others for the internet (still others for both)-they would have called him liberal and stopped fellowshipping him. And some may well have done just that-its been awhile since I've heard his name come up in the conservative circles that I know.

[Jason B]

He didn't mean physically, but spiritually, by putting an end to those kinds of fellowships, I believe. Not sure. I don't have that specific tape... But I've heard the same statement from him or his associates a few times through the years.

I'm sure he meant metaphorically, and yes i do have the tape. I would say alot of it doctrinally doesn't bother me, old fashion ACts 2:38. But so what, don't the words of Paul apply to our preaching also?

Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become [as] sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal. And though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing. And though I bestow all my goods to feed [the poor], and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing. 1 Corinthians 13:1-3

[missourimary]

I would venture to guess that the entire Bible applies to all of us. So yes.

[DeuteronomyCh8]

Pot meet kettle....how do you do?:ursofunny

DA brings alot upon himself, but exactly how does this justify YOUR holiness? What about turn the other cheek?

Turn the other cheek? This applies to what? The man or boy has lied (a reiteration) in this discussion. He once again SPEWS rhetoric and opinions. NO BIBLE. So because I defend the doctrine Im wrong? I've been very cordial.

I said:
1) He LIED
2) He had no scripture for his argument
3) He didnt know his scripture
4) He was childish and immature

He has:
1) Mocked the faith (which is a contempt for the rules according to my understanding)
2) He LIED
3) has attempted to ASSASSINATE peoples character with lies (unchecked I might add)
4) He has posted DEFAMATORY STATEMENTS (published by AFF, Lawyers would have a field day with this one!) (Think about it ADMIN)


I'll stand by what I said. As for holiness....you show me one thing I did wrong....BIBLICALLY. (????) I'm waiting for the scripture.

[simplyme]

:scripture:scripture:scripture

I must say that if one can spend two hours on the internet or watching television or even gossiping on that cell phone, they could handle a two hour message from the ministry. I guess it would depend on ones hunger for the word of GOD.
"...it pleased GOD by the foolishness of preaching to SAVE them that believe."
1 Corinthians 1:21

I've never heard someone with a prayer life complain that the man of GOD took to long. AMEN!I've never heard someone who bares fruits of the SPIRIT complain that the service lasted too long.
Double AMEN! It'd never be me, for sure.
To be honest.....I've never witnessed the rebellious spirits of so many "so called Apostolics" that are so critical of the MINISTRY. It puzzles me where the reverence and respect for the MINISTRY has gone. AMEN, and ditto! It grieves me.When the MAN of GOD stops becoming the VOICE of GOD in your life.......friend you are in trouble.

If you want rhyme and reason for why television is unhealthy for "PRAYING APOSTOLICS" I can do that. But some of you are trying to debate the Apostolic doctrine with people in this forum that ARE NOT APOSTOLICS.
When a veil is over someone's eyes......ONLY GOD CAN SHOW THEM.

Romans 13:4
"For he is the minister of GOD to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vein: for he is the minister of GOD."

You can argue over opinions, but you can't argue against the scriptures. :scripture
AMEN AMEN!!! Although I've sadly seen plenty DO just this (argue against scriptures) all the time.
I was waiting/searching for a time to insert such a comment as this one a part of which I've enlarged the font, right at the beginning
..and waiting paid off, in that someone else said what I was thinkin, praise GOD! I have finally found an edifying thread to enjoy! I plan to devote time to listen to this sermon straight through in some
solitude, soon., I will be blessed I'm sure. ;)

When a veil is over someone's eyes......ONLY GOD CAN SHOW THEM.
HALLELUJAH!!
I feel I have finally encountered a 'kindred' spirit friend here, ;)
GOD is good!
Love this post! :thumbsup

btw is this the STeve Pixler of Ft.Worth, TX? I am not UPC but I had
found this church in an online search when I was lookin for a church for
my son when he first moved up to Dallas area about 4yrs ago., I found
that church's website enjoyed it thoroughly and many of the online sermons
as well, I'd be blessed to hear this brother preach or TEACH., in person, LIVE..anytime!
Truly if pressured for a choice, I'd have to say I enjoy the teachings that last so long..
someone commented that the Spanish(?) people can do church for 5 or 6 hours?
Yes, I've both seen and done this., its no problem whatsoever, in fact its a privilege!
and its not just the Spanish that can do this either. :D
I do believe that there needs to be a variety of 'church' formats [even off regular times] available to fulfill various levels of hungry souls, and/or those just wanting to be faithful in churchgoing. *shrug*
This family of GOD is diverse, and can be quite fascinating. ;)

[Jason B]

Turn the other cheek? This applies to what? The man or boy has lied (a reiteration) in this discussion. He once again SPEWS rhetoric and opinions. NO BIBLE. So because I defend the doctrine Im wrong? I've been very cordial.

I said:
1) He LIED
2) He had no scripture for his argument
3) He didnt know his scripture
4) He was childish and immature

He has:
1) Mocked the faith (which is a contempt for the rules according to my understanding)
2) He LIED
3) has attempted to ASSASSINATE peoples character with lies (unchecked I might add)
4) He has posted DEFAMATORY STATEMENTS (published by AFF, Lawyers would have a field day with this one!) (Think about it ADMIN)


I'll stand by what I said. As for holiness....you show me one thing I did wrong....BIBLICALLY. (????) I'm waiting for the scripture.

To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. Titus 3:2

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
1 Peter 3:15

And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages. Luke 3:14

ETC.

[DeuteronomyCh8]

Amen! Well.... real Apostolics aren't well liked in this forum. You get an attaboy! if you denounce or mock the Bible though. If you defend it....well you could be banned. ( :dogpat )

[RandyWayne]

Amen! Well.... real Apostolics aren't well liked in this forum. You get an attaboy! if you denounce or mock the Bible though. If you defend it....well you could be banned. ( :dogpat )

I don't know... ever try talking (questioning) about tithes on a conservative forum? Or challenging ANY of the traditional standards?

Ban city! Ban city! Where all we do is ban, and thats all!


And I cannot handle a 3 hour football game, at least in one sitting.

I think most movies are too long (without a break).

And I AM on the net for the better part of a day -doing quite a few things at once. AFF is just one of a dozen tabs (the rest are work related) open.

[simplyme]

Amen! Well.... real Apostolics aren't well liked in this forum. You get an attaboy! if you denounce or mock the Bible though. If you defend it....well you could be banned. ( :dogpat )

Kinda seems that way at times, unfortuneately, certainly on other forums
as well, it COULD get depressing, if I didn't realize that this is how it
JUST IS., JESUS Himself went through lots worse, and well..you know

HE OVERCAME THE WORLD! :happydance

[RandyWayne]

Kinda seems that way at times, unfortuneately, certainly on other forums
as well, it COULD get depressing, if I didn't realize that this is how it
JUST IS., JESUS Himself went through lots worse, and well..you know

HE OVERCAME THE WORLD! :happydance

Oh common. Your going to compare being challenged intellectually with Jesus being beaten?

Of course in one thread I read on another forum RR compared herself being challenged intellectually to Christians being persecuted in other countries.....

[missourimary]

Amen! Well.... real Apostolics aren't well liked in this forum. You get an attaboy! if you denounce or mock the Bible though. If you defend it....well you could be banned. ( :dogpat )

No one has talked about banning you, unless you got a pm from admin. Though "speaking the truth in love" (Eph 4:15) and 2 Timothy 4:2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. Longsuffering generally doesn't involve barbs; maybe I misread some of the comments in your latest statements. (such as the statement about "real Apostolics" above. I probably just missed the joke... :overhead)

[Jason B]

Turn the other cheek?

As I said earlier pehaps DA brings some of this on himself, but why does that make it okay for you to dish it out?

This applies to what? The man or boy has lied (a reiteration) in this discussion. He once again SPEWS rhetoric and opinions. NO BIBLE. So because I defend the doctrine Im wrong? I've been very cordial.
Duet, come on. If your going to expect it of someone else, then require it of thyself. How about some scripture for how inherently evil TV is, and how no true saint of God can have one, but how the internet and youtube are acceptable means of seperation from the world.

BIBLE PLEASE

I said:
1) He LIED
post where he lied. I understand he seems to have an agenda towards outward holiness folks, and yes I am one of them, but I'm not sure that DA lies. If he did tell a lie, post it so that he may publically repent.


2) He had no scripture for his argument
What argument? Fill me in.

3) He didnt know his scripture
4) He was childish and immature
So two wrongs make a right?


He has:
1) Mocked the faith (which is a contempt for the rules according to my understanding)
The christian faith?

2) He LIED
see above

3) has attempted to ASSASSINATE peoples character with lies (unchecked I might add)
Then by all means check him. Call him out, post some specifics, becasue I don't know where he did what your accusing him of.

I'll stand by what I said. As for holiness....you show me one thing I did wrong....BIBLICALLY.
I think anyone who reads what you wrote on the other thread would have a hard time seeing what you did right. All that you accuse him of doing, you see to be doing right back to him. Think about it, read what you've written.

I will say this as my own two cents. You are obviously (or really,really seem to be) a one-God, Acts 2:38, standards keeping pentecostal, not unlike myself.

But this is what really rubs me wrong about many of us "outward standards" folks. Many think that as long as they tow the company line their okay, their holy and justified in their hatred toward other human beings. That because they feel the righteousness of God abides with themselves, they can bring down damnation upon those who don't believe like them. There's no room for gentleness or grace in their character because everything is wrapped up around keeping Law. I don't like it, I can't stand it, and I'm sick of it.


*(not of true holiness, nor of standards, but of an attitude which shows no love for our fellowman)

[Mrs. LPW]

Mabye you're right ... but I didn't read much of what you have here in this post in this thread...

Tell you one thing, if he preaches for 2 hours ... he definitely doesn't respect people's time.

Are you serious? Jesus kept the people late and then multiplied the food... Paul was "long preaching" and a young man fell asleep and right out the window. Paul just prayed for him and continued on until daybreak.

Completely off topic of this tv/monitor/computer issue, we are one messed up generation to think our time is so precious we can't spend 2 hours listening to the Word being preached.

Times have sure changed.

[Mrs. LPW]

In my experience, I think saints are respectful, appreciative and even congratulatory when they receive good teaching that lasts longer than usual or is succinct... it still speaks however ... to whether or not ... conscious decisions were made to time management and people's valuable time being made by the preacher.

We shouldn't however discount that we may have not been considerate as to their very busy schedules in a post-modern society filled with traffic, commute times, homework, etc .... which ultimately bring food to a full-time minister's table.

I think it speaks to mutual respect and knowing something about ..... effectiveness .... as we know that many do not retain a lot of what is said ... especially if drawn out and doesn't allow for practicum or processing.


You speak from a teachers point of view. And I see your point.
That said... the hunger for the Word isn't as prevalent as it was, even 50 years ago. And jobs and traffic and all those other things might very well be distractions we have to overcome if we want to see America on fire again.


(again, completely off topic of the tv/internet/monitor discussion. I'm not sure I could listen to 2 hours straight on that subject alone. :D )

[NewWine]

If anyone can sit through a movie then they most certainly can be attentive the man of God for 2 hours. The ideology or perspective that a message must be within a certain time frame is not right.

I just finished listening to Elder Pixler’s message and there were some things that I did not agree with, however, I found it to be edifying. He didn’t condemn technology; which I have heard some do. Yet, he talked about discernment and discipline when utilizing technology. People do need discipline because texting during a service is just not okay.


I enjoyed the message

[Mrs. LPW]

Not to mention sporting events and large rock concert events... political events. People can sit, even stand, for long periods of time for what they believe in... for what they enjoy... for what they want to hear... for what they want to absorb.



If anyone can sit through a movie then they most certainly can be attentive the man of God for 2 hours. The ideology or perspective that a message must be within a certain time frame is not right.

I just finished listening to Elder Pixler’s message and there were some things that I did not agree with, however, I found it to be edifying. He didn’t condemn technology; which I have heard some do. Yet, he talked about discernment and discipline when utilizing technology. People do need discipline because texting during a service is just not okay.


I enjoyed the message

[Apocrypha]

Are you serious? Jesus kept the people late and then multiplied the food... Paul was "long preaching" and a young man fell asleep and right out the window. Paul just prayed for him and continued on until daybreak.

Completely off topic of this tv/monitor/computer issue, we are one messed up generation to think our time is so precious we can't spend 2 hours listening to the Word being preached.

Times have sure changed.

Technology has changed things. I have about 150 hours of teachnig/preaching on my mp3 player and about as much music. Plus people are more literate than the biblical age, they can go and self study versus needing a teacher who was trained in the Old Testament and later NT when it was cannonized.

And if you look and the strong numbers for christian book sales I wouldn't agree that people don't love the Word more or less today versus whatever sample of time you want to pick as a golden age of scriptural understanding.

Its just that if I want to listen to world class preaching I don't need to go to a convention, event or a visiting speaker, i can simply go and load up Chuck Smith, Andy Stanley, or Mark Driscoll on my mp3 player and hear the same high quality sermon they preached to their 4000-15000 member churches.

Plus the fact for the most part we live in a society that has different focuses than even 300 years ago before we mastered the food supply and were able to support the industrial revolution. We have mastered the food supply so being fat is a bigger danger than famine today and we don't need to hunt or work in the fields to survive, we tend to be specialized in our occupation and work alot of hours before we go home and have a family life. People consider time to be more important than money today. Keeping things to the main points actually is just a good understanding of where people are today. We are visual due to computers and TV and its hard to stay still for 2 hours to listen to someone without any visual or tactile illustrations.... our brains are just not wired for it anymore.

[RandyWayne]

If anyone can sit through a movie then they most certainly can be attentive the man of God for 2 hours. The ideology or perspective that a message must be within a certain time frame is not right.

I just finished listening to Elder Pixler’s message and there were some things that I did not agree with, however, I found it to be edifying. He didn’t condemn technology; which I have heard some do. Yet, he talked about discernment and discipline when utilizing technology. People do need discipline because texting during a service is just not okay.


I enjoyed the message


I've already mentioned that I personally have a problem sitting through a two hour movie, at least if I am not given the chance to stand and walk around a few times, but that is besides the point.....

I would really like to see people talk about the CONTENT of the sermon. Arguing from a "length of time" is akin to the old anti-rock and roll sermons where backwards masking was given prominence above what was said FORWARDS in the lyrics. It ended up making those making the arguments look silly. (OK, the only thing time-wise that irked me is the constant promise to end for half an hour for the sole purpose of getting some "preach it!"'s from the audience.)

I think he DID make some really excellent points, which only made it worse when he built up a logical chain and then immediately abandoned it when it came in conflict with the "manual". I DO, as he mentions, believe that apostolics should be leading the way in innovation..... but come on, in what church are apostolics actually encouraged to be all they can be outside of service other then making a pay check that they then are expected to tithe from?
I haven't heard the sermon since the time this thread was started (and don't plan on listening again), so I do not remember all the details.

[Sister Alvear]

I have NOT read this thread except for first post and 3 or 4 other threads, have not listened to the sermon...however I have heard some Bible teachers that I enjoed for 2 hours and others I endured....the man...Steve Pixler is a good man. I cannot say anything about the sermon because I have not listened however he is a very intelligent peson, has a growing church. He has a growing church and several outreach churches with good men under him. He is a beautiful singer and good muscian. He has lot of influence so let us pray for him...Maybe at some point I can listen to the sermon and comment. However the times I have heard him speak he is a walking Bible...

He has a wonderful family.., so let pray that he can be a voice for God in a greater way.
Remember he is young (compared to me) so let us pray that his zeal will help build the kingdom of God around the world.
Among pastors that we visit (mostly UC) I find him balanced and think a lot of him. I might not agree with every opinion but I can say right now he is a good man...(and by the way he does not believe in wmen preachers!) However he treats me with great respect. I think that is the way we all ought to be...we may not agree on this or that but respect is something missing in many areas today...and by the way neither do I march to the pulpit acting like a man...ha...

[Mrs. LPW]

I'll make it plain, I'm not arguing for longer sermons... I'm not arguing at all. But it concerns me that if a man preaches for two hours someone would say he is not respectful of the people's time. If our gathering together for worship, prayer, preaching always has a time limit...

I am so blessed to attend a church where there is no set cut off time, when God is speaking or the prayer or worship is deep, anyone on a time constraint can simply step out and the rest of us can continue on.

We do live in a different time, a different age. There's no question life is different, especially in North America, than even a few years ago.
But if you think that all these "saints" are downloading sermons and buying books and spending all this time at home on the Word, you're fooling yourself. Any poll today will tell you we spend more time in front of our computers and tv's than we do on our knees, in the Word or in a Worship service or Bible study with our fellow believers.

But if we want what the first century church had in power and growth, we need to take the leash off of our time.
What you value, you put time into.

Not arguing for length of sermons... arguing against the idea that a longer sermon is not respectful of the people's time.

And Randy, some of those comments above weren't directed at "you". I quoted your post and then responded to things others had written as well.



I've already mentioned that I personally have a problem sitting through a two hour movie, at least if I am not given the chance to stand and walk around a few times, but that is besides the point.....

I would really like to see people talk about the CONTENT of the sermon. Arguing from a "length of time" is akin to the old anti-rock and roll sermons where backwards masking was given prominence above what was said FORWARDS in the lyrics. It ended up making those making the arguments look silly. (OK, the only thing time-wise that irked me is the constant promise to end for half an hour for the sole purpose of getting some "preach it!"'s from the audience.)

I think he DID make some really excellent points, which only made it worse when he built up a logical chain and then immediately abandoned it when it came in conflict with the "manual". I DO believe that apostolics should be leading the way in innovation..... but come on, in what church are apostolics actually encouraged to be all they can be outside of service other then making a pay check that they then are expected to tithe from?
I haven't heard the sermon since the time this thread was started (and don't plan on listening again), so I do not remember all the details.

[reubstr]

pfft... like anyone would do a expository series on Colossians in a UPC church anyhow. They avoid the epistles outside of trigger verses out of fear of going off the edge of their doctrinal map anyhow (here be dragons!). I have yet to hear a UPC pastor teach a multiweek sermon series on any of the epistles especially Romans. Heck they had a hard enough time doing it in bible college in book specific classes without nearly re-writing the entire intention of the book and sticking only to KJV to slant it to their interpretation.

Steve Pixler did one on Romans for a year and a half. :)

[reubstr]

So where exactly is it stated "explicity" that you can't have a TV, but can have the internet, and watch youtube?

He doesn't teach you can't have a TV and make it to heaven. He says it isn't wise. You can live off of candy bars, but it isnt wise. But his feelings on this are strong. Wisdom teaches alot of principles that are not law.

[reubstr]

btw is this the STeve Pixler of Ft.Worth, TX?

Yes

[reubstr]

I have NOT read this thread except for first post and 3 or 4 other threads, have not listened to the sermon...however I have heard some Bible teachers that I enjoed for 2 hours and others I endured....the man...Steve Pixler is a good man. I cannot say anything about the sermon because I have not listened however he is a very intelligent peson, has a growing church. He has a growing church and several outreach churches with good men under him. He is a beautiful singer and good muscian. He has lot of influence so let us pray for him...Maybe at some point I can listen to the sermon and comment. However the times I have heard him speak he is a walking Bible...

He has a wonderful family.., so let pray that he can be a voice for God in a greater way.
Remember he is young (compared to me) so let us pray that his zeal will help build the kingdom of God around the world.
Among pastors that we visit (mostly UC) I find him balanced and think a lot of him. I might not agree with every opinion but I can say right now he is a good man...(and by the way he does not believe in wmen preachers!) However he treats me with great respect. I think that is the way we all ought to be...we may not agree on this or that but respect is something missing in many areas today...and by the way neither do I march to the pulpit acting like a man...ha...

God love sis alvear! You nailed him right on. He doesn't judge others that disagree with him, if they believe in 1 God, Jesus name baptism, and the infilling of the holy ghost. You are my brother just the same. (or sister for you sis alvear!) And he does respect you highly. When you are present and when you are not.

Bottom line, the HG was given to lead and guide into all truth. Let it lead me, let it lead me, let it lead me!

Let it lead you, and you, and you and you! But because we aren't at the same place gives me no right to judge you.

:) Cheers

[reubstr]

but come on, in what church are apostolics actually encouraged to be all they can be outside of service other then making a pay check that they then are expected to tithe from?
I haven't heard the sermon since the time this thread was started (and don't plan on listening again), so I do not remember all the details.

Steve Pixlers...

[Jeffrey]

He doesn't teach you can't have a TV and make it to heaven. He says it isn't wise. You can live off of candy bars, but it isnt wise. But his feelings on this are strong. Wisdom teaches alot of principles that are not law.

Is that not a catch-22 though? I mean, he says it isn't law, but by him advocating it, and with the idealogy Pentecost has of the "man of God" it has now become law. Would he find it permissible for his assistant, yp and worship leader to have a television?

While he's saying it's not law, it most definitely has the impact of law, and though not explicit, has great implications of being "law." And "where the law is, there is transgression." I respect the way he's approaching the subject, as it seems there's more humility to it than most, but the outcome is still the same: if you have a television, you are carnal and less-spiritual than the rest of us.

BTW, I respectfully disagree about television being "candy bars" anymore than entertainment, book reading, internet surfing or shopping is. Moderation?
I respect men and women who decide not to have a television for whatever reasons to them that are personal, but to make blanket statments about a medium is increasinly becoming difficult to do. The age of internet/tv hybrid is here.

[reubstr]

Is that not a catch-22 though? I mean, he says it isn't law, but by him advocating it, and with the idealogy Pentecost has of the "man of God" it has now become law. Would he find it permissible for his assistant, yp and worship leader to have a television?

While he's saying it's not law, it most definitely has the impact of law, and though not explicit, has great implications of being "law." And "where the law is, there is transgression." I respect the way he's approaching the subject, as it seems there's more humility to it than most, but the outcome is still the same: if you have a television, you are carnal and less-spiritual than the rest of us.

BTW, I respectfully disagree about television being "candy bars" anymore than entertainment, book reading, internet surfing or shopping is. Moderation?
I respect men and women who decide not to have a television for whatever reasons to them that are personal, but to make blanket statments about a medium is increasinly becoming difficult to do. The age of internet/tv hybrid is here.

The candy bar, I made that up to make a point. Not to relate entertainment as candy. The point was going to the liquor store to buy something you could get at a place that isn't predominately used to sell liquor. :)

It could be a catch 22. There are decades of the 'Pastor' sets the 'rules' mentality that needs to be broken. "Jas 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another? " Preachers aren't excempt. The rules are set by God and the Bible. Anyone who burdens someone with rules or laws that GOD didn't put in place is guilty of that scripture. That doesnt mean you can't teach what would be wise or unwise.

A pastor is given to the church for edifying the body so they can be used in the work of ministry. Therefore, by the very nature of going to a church and listening to a man preach, you are inherintly expecting him to take the word of God and give you wisdom out of it.

Would he allow this person or that person in leadership have a television... If you are going to have a computer, iPhone, winmobile phone, you have a TV. If you are going to get a nice monitor to play the WII for example, you have a TV. So in one sense, yes he would allow them to 'have' a tv. Then take this to the next level, or to reiterate what I already said, he doesn't dictate what people do or don't do. Though he may find it unwise what they do.

The bible talks about letting people be proved. If someone truly believes it is unwise, it would be folly to promote them. No matter the circumstance.

Thanks for the very approachable 'approach.' :)
Cheers

[crakjak]

Maybe in the context of the UC, SP has laid down a liberal perspective, very wise in the current culture. Since very few Americans do not have TV in their homes. Very vise known to man is readily available in this culture, how much better to teach knowledge, wisdom and understand, that folks are empowered "...to live Godly in this present world."

Maybe in the UC world SP is a break from the hardline of legalism to a world of freedom and individual discernment and responsibility. We should all take our "believer status" very seriously, and in our freedom be careful that we do not "...cast of all restraint..."

[RandyWayne]

Steve Pixlers...

I hope it is the case but the ultimate test is if someone starts attending and while standing up and testifying announce that their job is:
Professional sports (football, baseball, basketball, Olympic athlete, etc...)
Own or work at a gym
Movie maker
Restaurant owner
Bartender
Author (sci fi or fantasy -basically anything other then bible study or bible self help)
Ballroom dance instructor
Microbrewery/Wine vineyard owner

The list can go on and on and on....

.....and no, I do not count "drug dealer!" or "strip club owner" as legitimate jobs for anyone, Christian or otherwise.

Would anyone be allowed to keep one of the above jobs after joining his church?

(And I do NOT know Steve. As a UC, he seems a bit more grounded in principle then most I have heard or heard of.)

[reubstr]

Crakjak, very aptly put. He is UC, but more biblical than legalistic. If you ask him, what are the dating rules for your church? His response would be something like, Dating rules?!? The dating rules are what ever the parent of a child sets for them. If you ask him his opinion on dating he would answer, I think in our culture the folly is... And here is what I practice in my home.... Not we should not this or should not that becaues .... make sense?

Mobile post. Please excuse typos.

[Jeffrey]

The candy bar, I made that up to make a point. Not to relate entertainment as candy. The point was going to the liquor store to buy something you could get at a place that isn't predominately used to sell liquor. :)

It could be a catch 22. There are decades of the 'Pastor' sets the 'rules' mentality that needs to be broken. "Jas 4:12 There is one lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy: who art thou that judgest another? " Preachers aren't excempt. The rules are set by God and the Bible. Anyone who burdens someone with rules or laws that GOD didn't put in place is guilty of that scripture. That doesnt mean you can't teach what would be wise or unwise.

A pastor is given to the church for edifying the body so they can be used in the work of ministry. Therefore, by the very nature of going to a church and listening to a man preach, you are inherintly expecting him to take the word of God and give you wisdom out of it.

Would he allow this person or that person in leadership have a television... If you are going to have a computer, iPhone, winmobile phone, you have a TV. If you are going to get a nice monitor to play the WII for example, you have a TV. So in one sense, yes he would allow them to 'have' a tv. Then take this to the next level, or to reiterate what I already said, he doesn't dictate what people do or don't do. Though he may find it unwise what they do.

The bible talks about letting people be proved. If someone truly believes it is unwise, it would be folly to promote them. No matter the circumstance.

Thanks for the very approachable 'approach.' :)
Cheers

And thank you as well for your gracious response!

I like a lot of what I hear about SP, as it represents a breath of fresh air from the more hardliner types. You mentioned he taught a series on the Book of Romans: a study like that will definitely cause all of us to tread more lightly regarding what we block the cross with for others.

What I hear is he teaches "wisdom" instead of "law." My question is, how do we contrast and compare the two. If, by wisdom, he speaks concerning prohibition of television, it has gone beyond general wisdom principles, and into specifics. A prohibition tends to be more toward the law side of things. See what I mean?

Wisdom would say: Let's guard ourselves by what we let shape our values. In the name of entertainment, let the Spirit help you be wise. Avoid media that will glorify the very things that Jesus dislikes. If it is a story, let it be a story. If the sin is dressing for the story, let it be so. But if it is the object of the entertainment, the whole allure of the entertainment, let us be watchful. etc..... Just an example.

Now compare that with this --

Law would say: We should not own televisions. Law could say that a number of ways "This church doesn't watch TV and if you don't like that find yourself somewhere else to go" or "we don't think it's wise to have a television"

Either way, the end result is either an implicit or an explicit prohibition, which though spoken in grace and humility, leans more toward the side of law than it does wisdom. That's not to say, some things we shouldn't as a church speak to concerning wisdom that is also a prohibition. Some of those things are explicit in scripture (fornication for example) and some aren't (clubbing). As ministery leaders, we must find a way not to just get around the logistics and technicalities, but a way to disciple people to grow in their walk with God.

Like I said, I like what I hear. It's a move in the right direction. He's not a preacher that gives license to sin, but he is careful to (at least try to) not make law where God has not spoken.

[Jeffrey]

I hope it is the case but the ultimate test is if someone starts attending and while standing up and testifying announce that their job is:
Professional sports (football, baseball, basketball, Olympic athlete, etc...)
Own or work at a gym
Movie maker
Restaurant owner
Bartender
Author (sci fi or fantasy -basically anything other then bible study or bible self help)
Ballroom dance instructor
Microbrewery/Wine vineyard owner

The list can go on and on and on....

.....and no, I do not count "drug dealer!" or "strip club owner" as legitimate jobs for anyone, Christian or otherwise.

Would anyone be allowed to keep one of the above jobs after joining his church?

(And I do NOT know Steve. As a UC, he seems a bit more grounded in principle then most I have heard or heard of.)

Any of those could attend my church, we are open to everyone. I would hope, if I am discipling and doing my job, they'd eventually realize the immaturity of wanting to continue working in atmospheres like bars though (bartender).

[RandyWayne]

Crakjak, very aptly put. He is UC, but more biblical than legalistic. If you ask him, what are the dating rules for your church? His response would be something like, Dating rules?!? The dating rules are what ever the parent of a child sets for them. If you ask him his opinion on dating he would answer, I think in our culture the folly is... And here is what I practice in my home.... Not we should not this or should not that becaues .... make sense?

Mobile post. Please excuse typos.

I like that. I wish more had that attitude.

[Justin]

He doesn't teach you can't have a TV and make it to heaven. He says it isn't wise. You can live off of candy bars, but it isnt wise. But his feelings on this are strong. Wisdom teaches alot of principles that are not law.

My Pastor teaches it perfectly: "That's why T.V's have a power button."

[RandyWayne]

Any of those could attend my church, we are open to everyone. I would hope, if I am discipling and doing my job, they'd eventually realize the immaturity of wanting to continue working in atmospheres like bars though (bartender).

I guess I wasn't explicit enough (my fault). What I was trying to convey in each of those professions is being the best you can be. When I typed "bartender" I didn't have the mental image of someone working at the corner tavern, but someone in a plush Vegas bar flipping and juggling bottles over their head for the purpose of putting on a show for the customers. Someone being the best they can be.

[Jeffrey]

My Pastor teaches it perfectly: "That's why T.V's have a power button."

What does he mean by that?

[Justin]

What does he mean by that?

I take it as meaning: If it's inappropriate, don't watch it.

[reubstr]

What I hear is he teaches "wisdom" instead of "law." My question is, how do we contrast and compare the two. If, by wisdom, he speaks concerning prohibition of television, it has gone beyond general wisdom principles, and into specifics. A prohibition tends to be more toward the law side of things. See what I mean?

This is a fair question. He has discussed it in depth at times. I can't speak for him, but from the listener, let me tell you, he doesn't promote tv, or anything that most HG filled people would consider unholy. But what he does do is on a scale that most UC have never experienced, he places most of the responsability for descerning right from wrong back on the person having a relationship with God. He loves holiness. He loves seperation from the world. He hasn't changed and become 'more liberal' as I have heard some people say. NOT IN THE SLIGHTEST! But, wisdom teaches principles to live by. We take the wisdom and apply it and set up bounderies that are our own law based on our convictions. He teaches wisdom. The child of God must walk with God. Not the preacher and his rulebook.

That said, I still believe (and can assume he does) it is right for Moses to set bounderies. But based on the WORD OF GOD, not whim, will and mostly opinion of man.




Wisdom would say: Let's guard ourselves by what we let shape our values. In the name of entertainment, let the Spirit help you be wise. Avoid media that will glorify the very things that Jesus dislikes. If it is a story, let it be a story. If the sin is dressing for the story, let it be so. But if it is the object of the entertainment, the whole allure of the entertainment, let us be watchful. etc..... Just an example.

Now compare that with this --

Law would say: We should not own televisions. Law could say that a number of ways "This church doesn't watch TV and if you don't like that find yourself somewhere else to go" or "we don't think it's wise to have a television"

Either way, the end result is either an implicit or an explicit prohibition, which though spoken in grace and humility, leans more toward the side of law than it does wisdom. That's not to say, some things we shouldn't as a church speak to concerning wisdom that is also a prohibition. Some of those things are explicit in scripture (fornication for example) and some aren't (clubbing). As ministery leaders, we must find a way not to just get around the logistics and technicalities, but a way to disciple people to grow in their walk with God.

Like I said, I like what I hear. It's a move in the right direction. He's not a preacher that gives license to sin, but he is careful to (at least try to) not make law where God has not spoken.

I wish I had time to type it all out. But what you describe, a prohibition, or law is what he is avoiding. What you describe is well thought through by him and what he teaches is Wisdom. Principles. That is what the listener takes away.

[Jason B]

People do need discipline because texting during a service is just not okay.




AMEN!!!

[Jason B]

The candy bar, I made that up to make a point. Not to relate entertainment as candy. The point was going to the liquor store to buy something you could get at a place that isn't predominately used to sell liquor. :)

Just wondering is this something that was mentioned from the pulpit, with a certain someone in mind? ;)

[Jason B]

To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all men. Titus 3:2

But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
1 Peter 3:15

And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages. Luke 3:14

ETC.

Bump Duet 8

[Jason B]

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showpost.php?p=867141&postcount=124

Bump Duet 8

[oletime]

nw says texting during a service isnt ok ? so i suppose its not as bad if you say something to the person sitting next to you ? and dont tell me you havent done that, everyone has, its the same thing. the only people that are upset with texting are mad because they dont know when your doing it, some including myself can text without looking .some of the kids can do it with their hand in pocketbook or their pocket.

[simplyme]

nw says texting during a service isnt ok ? so i suppose its not as bad if you say something to the person sitting next to you ? and dont tell me you havent done that, everyone has, its the same thing. the only people that are upset with texting are mad because they dont know when your doing it, some including myself can text without looking .some of the kids can do it with their hand in pocketbook or their pocket.

'scuse me but I gotta ask you OR anyone happenin to read this I have an inquiry:
WHAT is so GREAT about texting that thats all we hear about nowadays?
Geesh, you'd think TYPING was just invented, or somethin. *shrug*

Maybe 'cause its typing by CELLphone, is that it? OR could it be
the CELLphone itself
or what? :nah
Call me dingy, but I just don't "get it" (this fascination with 'texting' that
the whole world seems to be so ga-ga over) :D Maybe I'm just too old.

I'm still not yet done with being fascinated with word processors, and right
before that the IBM Selectric typewriters, now THERE was something to jump about!! LOL!

[missourimary]

Instant communication, any minute, any time. Connected with as many people as you want to be, all at once, yet no one needs to know who all else you are talking to at the same time. And the feeling that you're someone, because there is always someone texting you or whom you can text. I don't know if that's the whole fascination, but it is part of it for some people at least. Younger people I don't know about. Older people who get caught up in it... well, what if your boss called you in to talk to you and then, while you sat waiting for him, he sat across the desk and texted and laughed to himself or his secretary about incoming messages, then looked up dazed and said, "oh, uh, yes?" as though he forgot he had called you in? It happens. It'ss very rude, when that happens, to say the least. Unprofessional... well, won't go there. :nah

Why text in church?

(And please don't text and drive.)

[simplyme]

God love sis alvear! You nailed him right on. He doesn't judge others that disagree with him, if they believe in 1 God, Jesus name baptism, and the infilling of the holy ghost. You are my brother just the same. (or sister for you sis alvear!) And he does respect you highly. When you are present and when you are not.

Bottom line, the HG was given to lead and guide into all truth. Let it lead me, let it lead me, let it lead me!

Let it lead you, and you, and you and you! But because we aren't at the same place gives me no right to judge you.
:) Cheers

I vote this statement (I bolded) as MY choice for most
Judgmental ..without Judging! :D

*clap, clap to infinity*

It was also a runnerup for most INTELLIGENT! ;)

That 'thought' gives me incentive to THINK some more, lol
I've often thought similarly but hadn't the prompting to state it so
succintly., it should actually be a "slogan", FOR THE CHURCH! ;)

[Jeffrey]

Texting in service is increasingly acceptable. It lacks some etiquette, but everyone does it lol It's hard to know what people are doing on their phones: taking notes, reading their Bible or sending a FB friend request.

[missourimary]

Very true, and very sad. Not that people are texting in church... but God is our Father, our friend... how would you feel if your fiance grabbed the cell and started texting just as you were going to kiss him/her? I wonder how often God may feel the same way?

But maybe we're all going to get to a point where we'd be ok with that... and maybe God is too...

(but maybe not)

[reubstr]

Just wondering is this something that was mentioned from the pulpit, with a certain someone in mind? ;)

No. I just made it up as an example on the fly for the post.

[reubstr]

I vote this statement (I bolded) as MY choice for most
Judgmental ..without Judging! :D

*clap, clap to infinity*

It was also a runnerup for most INTELLIGENT! ;)

That 'thought' gives me incentive to THINK some more, lol
I've often thought similarly but hadn't the prompting to state it so
succintly., it should actually be a "slogan", FOR THE CHURCH! ;)

I think thank you's are in order...

But I don't get your "bolded" comment. I think you are saying "We can't help but notice people are at different levels. That is judging. But on a whole other level we are equal. Children of God. That eliminates the "If you celebrate Christmas, you aren't my brother." or "If you 'think' it is ok to watch TV, you aren't my brother." REGARDLESS if we agree, if they are baptized, filled with the HG, and walk to please God you are my brother, as long as they are not continuing in sin. Explicit... drunkenness, adultery, lying... the things listed in the bible.

Is that what you mean by "most judgmental, without judging?"

[Sister Alvear]

In the end dear friends each one of us will personally stand before the Maker...keep your hearts clean, pray everyday, search the scriptures, walk among good people...
Just yesterday someone told us someone had said some very untrue things about us...just brush those things off...if people talk evil of you...most of the time they would like to be you!
Pray for our world and go out and tell some soul about Jesus...take my word for it...Brother Pixler is a good man...if you do not agree with him that is fine too...we all have our rights to agree or disagree...

Our Jesus is soon to come...look up....redemption draweth nigh...

[reubstr]

Pray for our world and go out and tell some soul about Jesus...

Our Jesus is soon to come...look up....redemption draweth nigh...

Sis Alvear, that right there is it! Many times, UC and LIBS get so caught up in what they have a right to do, or not to do, that it is like the religous leaders in Jesus time. He walked among them and they didn't know him because he didn't fit their mold.

All the while, Jesus looked at the woman caught in adultery and said, "Neither do I condemn thee, go and sin no more." How much more effective would we be as the church if we lived that way. Let him that is without sin cast the first stone. :)

[Sister Alvear]

If we could only see the world through the eyes of Jesus...our outlook on a lot of things might change...dying moments are reserved for things most precious to us...in His dying hours he uttered for us to look on the fields...

[simplyme]

I think thank you's are in order...

But I don't get your "bolded" comment. I think you are saying "We can't help but notice people are at different levels. That is judging. But on a whole other level we are equal. Children of God. That eliminates the "If you celebrate Christmas, you aren't my brother." or "If you 'think' it is ok to watch TV, you aren't my brother." REGARDLESS if we agree, if they are baptized, filled with the HG, and walk to please God you are my brother, as long as they are not continuing in sin. Explicit... drunkenness, adultery, lying... the things listed in the bible.

Is that what you mean by "most judgmental, without judging?"

YUP! You say it so well!
Thanks. ;) Sometimes anything we say can be taken as a type of judging;
merely commenting on something we LIKE is judging, i.e. foods, clothing
etc., yet we tolerate things that we aren't crazy about as well., things that
we do not like is a type of judging.

I have come to realize and accept that just because someone is NOT
at the same level, of understanding, doesn't mean that they won't get
there SOMETIME, and sooner [I]IF we
can accept them "as they are" so
that they can hang around, and maybe some of US, rather JESUS..will
rub off on them, and they TOO..may continue to grow spiritually., perhaps
not EXACTLY like us..but thats okay, too much US can get boring, lol
I also remind self that JESUS loves them, too., so I have to as well.
Like you said, in your last sentence above before your question to me..
"as long as they are not continuing in [blatant] sin that the Bible labels
as such" I am content to fellowship with those whom truly love GOD. ;)

[RandyWayne]

YUP! You say it so well!
Thanks. ;) Sometimes anything we say can be taken as a type of judging;
merely commenting on something we LIKE is judging, i.e. foods, clothing
etc., yet we tolerate things that we aren't crazy about as well., things that
we do not like is a type of judging.

I have come to realize and accept that just because someone is NOT
at the same level, of understanding, doesn't mean that they won't get
there SOMETIME, and sooner [I]IF we
can accept them "as they are" so
that they can hang around, and maybe some of US, rather JESUS..will
rub off on them, and they TOO..may continue to grow spiritually., perhaps
not EXACTLY like us..but thats okay, too much US can get boring, lol
I also remind self that JESUS loves them, too., so I have to as well.
Like you said, in your last sentence above before your question to me..
"as long as they are not continuing in [blatant] sin that the Bible labels
as such" I am content to fellowship with those whom truly love GOD. ;)

Soooooooooo.... If even if you believe that ALL shirt sleeves should come to wrist (or <fill in the blank with your standard>), you will accept your brother/sister who doesn't because you know in time that they will have the same revelation?

[Praxeas]

Texting in service is increasingly acceptable. It lacks some etiquette, but everyone does it lol It's hard to know what people are doing on their phones: taking notes, reading their Bible or sending a FB friend request.
Im pretty sure if Paul was alive to day he would say "and no texting during service"

[Jeffrey]

Im pretty sure if Paul was alive to day he would say "and no texting during service"

Just think of it as a new way of taking copious notes. Instead of private, these notes are shared. Tweeting quotes from a sermon is a great way to get everyone excited and involved, don't you think? lol

[BeenThinkin]

Just think of it as a new way of taking copious notes. Instead of private, these notes are shared. Tweeting quotes from a sermon is a great way to get everyone excited and involved, don't you think? lol


Sure give you a quicker way to criticize the preaching and the preacher. :ursofunny :foottap

[simplyme]

Soooooooooo.... If even if you believe that ALL shirt sleeves should come to wrist (or <fill in the blank with your standard>), you will accept your brother/sister who doesn't because you know in time that they will have the same revelation?
Hehe you may THINK you've got me on the spot, but I won't be dragged down into the 'standards' muck & mire , but I
will say that I won't shun someone truly hungry & thirsty for GODs TRUTHs, whom doesn't dress as I do for my LORD., the future is something only
GOD knows, its not my territory. :D

[RandyWayne]

Hehe you may THINK you've got me on the spot, but I won't be dragged down into the 'standards' muck & mire , but I
will say that I won't shun someone truly hungry & thirsty for GODs TRUTHs, whom doesn't dress as I do for my LORD., the future is something only
GOD knows, its not my territory. :D

No standards "muck" here. Just responding to the way you worded your post. Just glad your not shunning those who don't dress like you do. :)

[simplyme]

No standards "muck" here. Just responding to the way you worded your post. Just glad your not shunning those who don't dress like you do. :)
I'm glad that you are glad. ;)
Even though I did NOT word my post(s) to relate to 'standards', or
outer attire, period., until you started talkin about "sleeves" lol
which btw, I prefer MINE to be to the elbow length., OR to the wrist
depending on climate. :D