View Full Version : Is Pentecost Good to Women in Ministry?
Hoovie
03-31-2007, 04:43 PM
Seems there are many complaints these days about women not being accepted in ministerial capacities in Pentecostal Churches. I rarely hear any thankfulness that most Pentecostal Churches are and have always been more tolerant than most mainstream Protestant Churches when it comes to this topic.
My intent in this thread is not to hash out how much more or less (depending on your views) we should be doing, but rather I am curious if the women in ministry advocates in the Pentecostal Church have overlooked the level of acceptance that already exists.
CupCake
03-31-2007, 05:01 PM
Seems there are many complaints these days about women not being accepted in ministerial capacities in Pentecostal Churches. I rarely hear any thankfulness that most Pentecostal Churches are and have always been more tolerant than most mainstream Protestant Churches when it comes to this topic.
My intent in this thread is not to hash out how much more or less (depending on your views) we should be doing, but rather I am curious if the women in ministry advocates in the Pentecostal Church have overlooked the level of acceptance that already exists.
Hmmmm, if you sit on the pews keep your trap shut...;) J/K
I've been out to long to say, other then when I was UPCI, not alot going on for us gals other then Sunday School, Bake Sales or singing.
Rhoni
03-31-2007, 05:05 PM
Seems there are many complaints these days about women not being accepted in ministerial capacities in Pentecostal Churches. I rarely hear any thankfulness that most Pentecostal Churches are and have always been more tolerant than most mainstream Protestant Churches when it comes to this topic.
I do not think this is the truth. Pentecostal churches are less tolerant of women in leadership than most denominal churches. This is not to say that there are not many Pastors who support and allow their wives to minister while some make sure their wives are in the background and keep them in a background type position in their churches as well as their family. Pentecost has come a long way, but unless you are a woman married to the preacher your talents and ministries are very limited within our ranks.
My intent in this thread is not to hash out how much more or less (depending on your views) we should be doing, but rather I am curious if the women in ministry advocates in the Pentecostal Church have overlooked the level of acceptance that already exists.
I think that tolerance is different than being supportive...yes, they are more tolerant but they still hold the same views that women are lower class, in a subservient role, and are not qualified or equipped to minister.
I really appreciate how tolerant most of you are on this forum of women in ministry or leadership..you make it quite obvious.:aaa
Blessings, Rhoni
Scott Hutchinson
03-31-2007, 05:12 PM
How many women are officials in the OP fellowships?
Hoovie
03-31-2007, 05:16 PM
I really appreciate how tolerant most of you are on this forum of women in ministry or leadership..you make it quite obvious.:aaa
Blessings, Rhoni
The fact is it continues to be a quite controversial subject in Christianity.
My point is Pentecostal Churches are and have always been more tolerant than most mainstream Protestant Churches when it comes to this topic.
Most of Christianity considers the Pentecostal acceptance of women in pulpit ministry to be quite liberal and even unacceptable.
I know... I know.... This PROVES nothing. But then that was not the reason for this thread was it?:nah
BoredOutOfMyMind
03-31-2007, 05:21 PM
How many women are officials in the OP fellowships?
The question was not about officiating.
It was Is Women in Ministry in Pentecost Good, or wait no, it was Are Good Women in Pentecostal to Minister. Wait again, got it. The point was -
Is Pentecost Good To Women In Ministry.
I think. :tiphat
Rhoni
03-31-2007, 05:22 PM
The question was not about officiating.
It was Is Women in Ministry in Pentecost Good, or wait no, it was Are Good Women in Pentecostal to Minister. Wait again, got it. The point was -
Is Pentecost Good To Women In Ministry.
I think. :tiphat
:nah
Scott Hutchinson
03-31-2007, 05:25 PM
Are there any women DSs ?
Hoovie
03-31-2007, 05:27 PM
Are there any women DSs ?
No I don't think so.
But there are numerous female pastors and co-pastors, preachers and evangelists in the UPC.
CupCake
03-31-2007, 05:27 PM
Is Pentecost Good To Women In Ministry.
I think. :tiphat
Is that what being asked? If so back in the early 80's- 90's I'd have to say no and that may have more to do with who the pastor's were. Have no ideal how it is now, moved on.
Scott Hutchinson
03-31-2007, 05:29 PM
No I don't think so.
But there are numerous female pastors and co-pastors, preachers and evangelists in the UPC.
How Sisters are licensed in the ALJC?
Hoovie
03-31-2007, 05:36 PM
Is that what being asked? If so back in the early 80's- 90's I'd have to say no and that may have more to do with who the pastor's were. Have no ideal how it is now, moved on.
OK, I am sure individual experience varies.
In comparison to other Christian segments and denominations the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement is much more tolerable of women in ministry.
There are a few exceptions... I believe the United Methodist Church is very liberal on women in ministry (and most all other issues).
Scott Hutchinson
03-31-2007, 05:38 PM
The Independent Baptist are really keen on Women Bishops?
CupCake
03-31-2007, 05:50 PM
OK, I am sure individual experience varies.
In comparison to other Christian segments and denominations the Charismatic/Pentecostal movement is much more tolerable of women in ministry.
There are a few exceptions... I believe the United Methodist Church is very liberal on women in ministry (and most all other issues).
I’ve been apart of AOG and Four Square and Church Of Christ, Church Of God, even House Of Pray, Potter House and everyone of them treated women as equals when it came to the things of God, even preaching was allowed and encouraged. When I was a member of the UPCI, and later Apostoilc, I felt like a second class, can’t tell you how many times during my husbands own preaching days with UPCI/ Apostolic were I and other pastor wife’sI met felt left out when it came to the things of God.
I was raised Christian Science and they are very big into woman having rolls within their church system.
We are now independent.
Pragmatist
03-31-2007, 06:24 PM
I think in the early days of Pentecost, there were many more women ministers than in other denominations. That being said, I think other denominations have become more accepting and the UPC continues to merely tolerate them.
CupCake
03-31-2007, 06:26 PM
I think in the early days of Pentecost, there were many more women ministers than in other denominations. That being said, I think other denominations have become more accepting and the UPC continues to merely tolerate them.
You have said it best, by far.
Coonskinner
03-31-2007, 06:28 PM
Women who took a ministry role as we would define it are very rare in Scripture.
I believe they are the exception more than the rule.
This is why they are rare today. Not non-existent, but uncommon.
Whether you are a man or a woman, if you have got the goods, your gift is going to make room for you.
That's why you see ladies like our own Sister Alvear who doesn't need anybody defending her ministry--it speaks for itself.
If you are sitting back crying about how powerful you would be if only you got the breaks others got, you probably don't have what it takes. That goes for men and women.
CupCake
03-31-2007, 06:40 PM
Sister Alvear is not here in the States, I think that makes a big difference, Brazil is a world of it own if you ever been there, people have a different outlook on women in roles of of power. Sister Alvear has made mention before, she does not let man stop here, even tho she knows she been looked down on for her directness. Likewise that’s just one of many reasons why we left, we could do more for God outside of the origination, so not everyone sitting around crying, some are doing something about it, leaving the fold if need be.
Felicity
03-31-2007, 07:55 PM
Seems there are many complaints these days about women not being accepted in ministerial capacities in Pentecostal Churches. I rarely hear any thankfulness that most Pentecostal Churches are and have always been more tolerant than most mainstream Protestant Churches when it comes to this topic.
My intent in this thread is not to hash out how much more or less (depending on your views) we should be doing, but rather I am curious if the women in ministry advocates in the Pentecostal Church have overlooked the level of acceptance that already exists.Women have had a very important place and part in ministry over the years in Pentecost in general.
I wish there were stats on how many men in ministry today were influenced by or saved under the leadership of a woman.
Hoovie
03-31-2007, 10:38 PM
Women have had a very important place and part in ministry over the years in Pentecost in general.
I wish there were stats on how many men in ministry today were influenced by or saved under the leadership of a woman.
STATS, thats what we need. Where are you Rhoni? :)
I would like to know if the Pentecostal/Charismatics have more or less licensed/ordained female ministers than other Christians. Certainly I think I know the answer when it comes to a comparison to the SBC (16,000,000 US constituents).
And I would also like to know, how OP compare to AOG and COG.
Coonskinner
03-31-2007, 10:42 PM
Sister Alvear is not here in the States, I think that makes a big difference, Brazil is a world of it own if you ever been there, people have a different outlook on women in roles of of power. Sister Alvear has made mention before, she does not let man stop here, even tho she knows she been looked down on for her directness. Likewise that’s just one of many reasons why we left, we could do more for God outside of the origination, so not everyone sitting around crying, some are doing something about it, leaving the fold if need be.
I have not heard anyone criticize Sister Alvear.
But look at Nona Freeman and Vesta mangun and Bobbye Wendell.
They are in the states, and are well thought of.
Old Paths
03-31-2007, 10:47 PM
How many women are officials in the OP fellowships?
Licensing, ordaining and preaching is one thing, being an OFFICIAL is a total different ballgame.
Unless I am mistaken there was a grass roots movement a few years back to remove the words HE, HIM, BROTHER, etc. from the qualifications for sectional, district and national positions.
Didn't get pass committee.
You and I probably will not live long enough to ever see a WOMAN presbyter or superintendent.
Truly Blessed
03-31-2007, 10:51 PM
Women who took a ministry role as we would define it are very rare in Scripture.
I believe they are the exception more than the rule.
This is why they are rare today. Not non-existent, but uncommon.
Whether you are a man or a woman, if you have got the goods, your gift is going to make room for you.
That's why you see ladies like our own Sister Alvear who doesn't need anybody defending her ministry--it speaks for itself.
If you are sitting back crying about how powerful you would be if only you got the breaks others got, you probably don't have what it takes. That goes for men and women.Good post CS! I agree. A person's gifts make room for themselves regardless of their gender. I have sat under a woman pastor, and I have been blessed by various women preachers.
CupCake
03-31-2007, 11:03 PM
I have not heard anyone criticize Sister Alvear.
But look at Nona Freeman and Vesta mangun and Bobbye Wendell.
They are in the states, and are well thought of.
I'm not sure who criticize Sister Alvear, I read it in one of her post up here. I know Nona Freeman and spent time with Bobbye Wendell back in the 80's both are strong woman, if you talk with them you'll find out they didn't get much help or support, they paid their own way, they had a calling and went for it.
Coonskinner
03-31-2007, 11:04 PM
I'm not sure who criticize Sister Alvear, I read it in one of her post up here. I know Nona Freeman and spent time with Bobbye Wendell back in the 80's both are strong woman, if you talk with them you'll find out they didn't get much help or support, they paid their own way, they had a calling and went for it.
Exactly.
But they had the stuff and made it.
You don't hear them crying about not getting the breaks because they are women.
CupCake
03-31-2007, 11:12 PM
Exactly.
But they had the stuff and made it.
You don't hear them crying about not getting the breaks because they are women.
You won't hear most woman crying, woman will find a way around the walls man has step before them and God will open the doors. I must be honest, there are men within the UPC who won't except woman in any roll other then pew warmer or bake sale, I once sat under a pastor like this for three years while my husband pastor along side this man, I didn’t complain, his church, his way. When the time came God made a way we move on and we did.
Scott Hutchinson
03-31-2007, 11:15 PM
Cupcake does your church have a website, if so could you pm me?
Scott Hutchinson
03-31-2007, 11:16 PM
Licensing, ordaining and preaching is one thing, being an OFFICIAL is a total different ballgame.
Unless I am mistaken there was a grass roots movement a few years back to remove the words HE, HIM, BROTHER, etc. from the qualifications for sectional, district and national positions.
Didn't get pass committee.
You and I probably will not live long enough to ever see a WOMAN presbyter or superintendent.
You might outlive me.
Hoovie
03-31-2007, 11:17 PM
Cupcake, are you currently in a pulpit ministry?
CupCake
03-31-2007, 11:17 PM
Cupcake does your church have a website, if so could you pm me?
We sure don't, sorry.
CupCake
03-31-2007, 11:19 PM
Cupcake, are you currently in a pulpit ministry?
We live next to the Amish so we home church, we live very remote, town like 85 miles one way.
Scott Hutchinson
03-31-2007, 11:19 PM
We sure don't, sorry.
It seemed kinda interesting to me.
Felicity
03-31-2007, 11:19 PM
I have not heard anyone criticize Sister Alvear.
But look at Nona Freeman and Vesta mangun and Bobbye Wendell.
They are in the states, and are well thought of.Yes, and they don't scream, holler, pound pulpits, shake fists or stomp either far as I know. Certainly Sis. Freeman and Bobbye Wendell don't. :)
Hoovie
03-31-2007, 11:22 PM
We live next to the Amish so we home church, we live very remote, town like 85 miles one way.
Wow! OK. I was just wondering, now that you are free of the restrictions you felt were imposed on your ability to minister, how are you more effective?
Old Paths
03-31-2007, 11:34 PM
Yes, and they don't scream, holler, pound pulpits, shake fists or stomp either far as I know. Certainly Sis. Freeman and Bobbye Wendell don't. :)
Then HOW could you tell if they were anointed?
Hee heeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Felicity
03-31-2007, 11:43 PM
Then HOW could you tell if they were anointed?
Hee heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeLOL! I can tell! :)
One of the most impacting soul and heart stirring impacting messages I have ever heard and that will forever stand out in my memory was when Bobbye Wendell spoke at Gen Conference the last time we attended. I thought I was gonna bust and come totally unglued. I'll never forget. You're not impacted in that way that many times over a period of years. I remember one other time when I was affected a similar way and that was at a Deeper Life meeting back in N.B. Bro. Pugh was speaking. I had to get up and go downstairs where I could be alone to be able to release what I was feeling. It was so huge.
Another time was at another deeper life conference in N.B. ..... Bro. Kershaw was preaching. What a powerful meeting that was!
Another ..... World Conference in the Philippines ....... totally awesome service ..... completely unforgettable. Again, such a powerful mighty move of the anointing and Shekinah presence of God.
berkeley
04-01-2007, 02:45 AM
Women who took a ministry role as we would define it are very rare in Scripture.
I believe they are the exception more than the rule.
This is why they are rare today. Not non-existent, but uncommon.
Whether you are a man or a woman, if you have got the goods, your gift is going to make room for you.
That's why you see ladies like our own Sister Alvear who doesn't need anybody defending her ministry--it speaks for itself.
If you are sitting back crying about how powerful you would be if only you got the breaks others got, you probably don't have what it takes. That goes for men and women.
excellent post!!
Women who took a ministry role as we would define it are very rare in Scripture.
I believe they are the exception more than the rule.
This is why they are rare today. Not non-existent, but uncommon.
Whether you are a man or a woman, if you have got the goods, your gift is going to make room for you.
That's why you see ladies like our own Sister Alvear who doesn't need anybody defending her ministry--it speaks for itself.
If you are sitting back crying about how powerful you would be if only you got the breaks others got, you probably don't have what it takes. That goes for men and women.:clap :thumbsup
Sister Alvear
04-01-2007, 06:17 AM
Bobby Wendell what a woman...I just listened to one of her sermons and gave it to my daughter to listen to while I am here in the states...I wept...and wept...and wept...The title was "in a moment of time"...
And precious Sister Freeman... a living legend among us...
Even though Brazil is a different world there are many that are against women...but in our work we seldom have brushed sholders with these guys...BUT our women are trained to respect men and I HAVE never seen one lady mouth off about men...
I personally am no threat to men for those that know me most know I HATE to get up before a crowd and especially in the states...Sometimes duty requires to do certain things...but I tremble to get up before a crowd.
Sister Alvear
04-01-2007, 06:20 AM
I do remember one time Brother Alvear sat a woman down because she was trying to take over...but I have seen him sit men down too on occasion...
We believe in order and I would never think of doing something without first talking to my husband...after all he is my head...and Christ is his head...
Sister Alvear
04-01-2007, 06:23 AM
This is cute....One time in the states I spoke at a church that is very much against women but the pastor called me to speak and after church his little boy ran up to me and said, "Sister Alvear, you are the first woman that ever preached in our church.." He said it so loud everyone turned and looked at him...his daddy gave him that "shut up" look...I just smiled patted him on the head and said, Now isn't that nice....
Sister Alvear
04-01-2007, 06:28 AM
I do not feel bad at people that do not believe in women in ministry...I am sorry that they miss out on such people as Bobby Wendell...so many rich experiences... and yes she is a lady...a blessed lady. Many will rise up in judgment and call her blessed for her sacrifice on a foreign shore...
Sister Alvear
04-01-2007, 06:29 AM
I did look at the UPC lady speaker I do believe she believes what she said...
Not my style but we are all different...I guess I need more "life" when I get before a crowd.
CupCake
04-01-2007, 12:47 PM
Wow! OK. I was just wondering, now that you are free of the restrictions you felt were imposed on your ability to minister, how are you more effective?
The biggest difference would be not having to force traditions on members or by- laws, let God do the work on their hearts. But overall the biggest change of all has been a closer walk with Jesus, and peace. During our UPCI days we traveled a lot, preaching in different churches, this is very trying with small kids, babies. After we left the UPCI we set up our own church in Ogden UT, Apostolic Faith Ministers did that for four years, after that we became involved with a Bro from Canada and spent the next two years travailing all over the place, setting up our own churches in all 48 states and three overseas, Chine, Africa, Brazil, even Canada. These Churches are all still going , we are still very much apart of these. My husband is very private and many know him within the UPCI and outside it, so he has asked me not to give a lot details of some things. Sorry
CupCake
04-01-2007, 12:52 PM
This is cute....One time in the states I spoke at a church that is very much against women but the pastor called me to speak and after church his little boy ran up to me and said, "Sister Alvear, you are the first woman that ever preached in our church.." He said it so loud everyone turned and looked at him...his daddy gave him that "shut up" look...I just smiled patted him on the head and said, Now isn't that nice....
This is the story I recall you telling on here or GNC, not sure what forum..Getting old.:toofunny
Pressing-On
04-01-2007, 01:06 PM
Yes, and they don't scream, holler, pound pulpits, shake fists or stomp either far as I know. Certainly Sis. Freeman and Bobbye Wendell don't. :)
She doesn't? lol! We were in a ladies meeting with her as one of the speakers. She was yelling so loud about getting up and worshipping that I wasn't sure that the women did it so she would stop yelling. lol!
This is the story I recall you telling on here or GNC, not sure what forum..Getting old.:toofunny
Perhaps "old" is in the eye of the beholder...some of us have never heard this story...:tiphat
She doesn't? lol! We were in a ladies meeting with her as one of the speakers. She was yelling so loud about getting up and worshipping that I wasn't sure that the women did it so she would stop yelling. lol!
Perhaps "yelling and screaming" are also in the eye of the beholder...one person's noise is another person's anointing anointing.
Everyone to their opinion and perception...:tiphat
Pressing-On
04-01-2007, 01:30 PM
Perhaps "yelling and screaming" are also in the eye of the beholder...one person's noise is another person's anointing.
Everyone to their opinion and perception...:tiphat
;) :tiphat
;) :tiphat
By the same token, someone's opinion of anointing being present, to someone else it is just noise.
Personally, I don't go in for screaming...I don't think it's necessary.
I will say once again for those who missed my point earlier, that a voice raised in the heat of excitement and anointing is not what I am referring to.
This is just my humble, if not unwelcomed opinion...
Pressing-On
04-01-2007, 02:08 PM
By the same token, someone's opinion of anointing being present, to someone else it is just noise.
Personally, I don't go in for screaming...I don't think it's necessary.
I will say once again for those who missed my point earlier, that a voice raised in the heat of excitement and anointing is not what I am referring to.
This is just my humble, if not unwelcomed opinion...
What I am saying is that anyone can identify "screaming" as you have stated.
I don't like it either.
What I am saying is that anyone can identify "screaming" as you have stated.
I don't like it either.
Yes, I know...I was just adding to what I had already stated...
CupCake
04-01-2007, 06:30 PM
Perhaps "old" is in the eye of the beholder...some of us have never heard this story...:tiphat
LOl very true, but in my case I think it's age....;)
CupCake
04-01-2007, 06:32 PM
What I am saying is that anyone can identify "screaming" as you have stated.
I don't like it either.
I don't care for it either, makes me tune out.
Rhoni
04-01-2007, 08:15 PM
I don't care for it either, makes me tune out.
I don't like men or women screaming...I have been to churches where they turn up the mic's and still scream...what is that about? It gives me a headache!
Felicity
04-01-2007, 08:21 PM
I don't like screeching either.
I don't mind raised voices and demonstrative preaching though. I like passion and conviction and fire in the belly!!
CupCake
04-01-2007, 08:22 PM
I don't like men or women screaming...I have been to churches where they turn up the mic's and still scream...what is that about? It gives me a headache!
To be honest from all my years being around loud music and screaming I think it has caused me to lose some hearing, no kidding.
Rhoni
04-01-2007, 08:24 PM
To be honest from all my years being around loud music and screaming I think it has caused me to lose some hearing, no kidding.
I know...sometimes I wish for Charles Stanley to preach to me:tiphat I can't take all the noise sometimes!
I don't like men or women screaming...I have been to churches where they turn up the mic's and still scream...what is that about? It gives me a headache!
Some preachers and singers...especially in the Black church, 'cup' the mic...put their hand over the top of the microphone.
They do it so they can better hear, but it drives sound techs and former sound techs (me!!) insane...it destorts the sound and defeats the purpose...ridiculous habit!!
I don't like screeching either.
I don't mind raised voices and demonstrative preaching though. I like passion and conviction and fire in the belly!!
Inner beings...:)
CupCake
04-01-2007, 08:26 PM
I know...sometimes I wish for Charles Stanley to preach to me:tiphat I can't take all the noise sometimes!
And I can't see anymore, menopause has done me in.... Might as well take me out back shoot me already~:ignore
Rhoni
04-01-2007, 08:29 PM
And I can't see anymore, menopause has done me in.... Might as well take me out back shoot me already~:ignore
You and I both...I am post menopausal now...can't see, can't hear, can't lose weight, can't think, can't sleep, can't...can't...can't....what has my life been reduced to?:friend
CupCake
04-01-2007, 08:32 PM
You and I both...I am post menopausal now...can't see, can't hear, can't lose weight, can't think, can't sleep, can't...can't...can't....what has my life been reduced to?:friend
I hear you, can't recall what normal is. I guess this is what it feel like to be a man....:slaphappy
Rhoni
04-01-2007, 08:36 PM
I hear you, can't recall what normal is. I guess this is what it feel like to be a man....:slaphappy
:yahoo :yahoo :bolt :bolt
CupCake
04-01-2007, 08:51 PM
:yahoo :yahoo :bolt :bolt
:neener
http://www.everythingmenopause.com/images/meno11.jpg
Rhoni
04-01-2007, 08:57 PM
:neener
http://www.everythingmenopause.com/images/meno11.jpg
AMEN!:friend
CupCake
04-01-2007, 08:59 PM
AMEN!:friend
I think I'll just wear this hat from now on...
This to shall pass~
http://images.cafepress.com/product/32980472v1_240x240_Front_Color-White.jpg
CupCake
04-01-2007, 09:07 PM
Boy have we gals hamburger Stephen Hoover thread...;)
Scott Hutchinson
04-01-2007, 09:43 PM
What do the men go through when the women go through the M thing ?
MISERY?
Rhoni
04-02-2007, 05:34 AM
I think I'll just wear this hat from now on...
This to shall pass~
http://images.cafepress.com/product/32980472v1_240x240_Front_Color-White.jpg
Where can I get one of these? It would let people know exactly where I stand and to leave me alone!:winkgrin
Blessings, Rhoni
Coonskinner
04-02-2007, 06:48 AM
If women have menopause, do men have womenopause?
Just one of the many things I ponder sometimes.
Hoovie
04-03-2007, 01:30 PM
Women who took a ministry role as we would define it are very rare in Scripture.
I believe they are the exception more than the rule.
This is why they are rare today. Not non-existent, but uncommon.
Whether you are a man or a woman, if you have got the goods, your gift is going to make room for you.
That's why you see ladies like our own Sister Alvear who doesn't need anybody defending her ministry--it speaks for itself.
If you are sitting back crying about how powerful you would be if only you got the breaks others got, you probably don't have what it takes. That goes for men and women.
I guess this response makes the most sense to me.
Coonskinner
04-03-2007, 01:34 PM
I guess this response makes the most sense to me.
After careful consideration, I have to agree with you. :)
Hoovie
04-03-2007, 01:39 PM
After careful consideration, I have to agree with you. :)
Smart man. To do otherwise would be intellectual suicide.:highfive
LadyRev
04-03-2007, 01:49 PM
Yes, and they don't scream, holler, pound pulpits, shake fists or stomp either far as I know. Certainly Sis. Freeman and Bobbye Wendell don't. :)
BOBBYE WENDELL??????????????
OH MY GOSH! I have tapes of her you need to hear!
Screamin, hollerin, LOUD rough hardnosed preachin! And the tapes don't do her justice! You would have had to been there to see the actions with the noise!
I haven't heard her in years and would love to hear her again. She will make a person want to just crawl under a pew and pray for hours...she really gets the job done!
Btw, this is now official "LadyRev picks on Felicity" day! :neener :winkgrin
Joelel
04-03-2007, 02:03 PM
Seems there are many complaints these days about women not being accepted in ministerial capacities in Pentecostal Churches. I rarely hear any thankfulness that most Pentecostal Churches are and have always been more tolerant than most mainstream Protestant Churches when it comes to this topic.
My intent in this thread is not to hash out how much more or less (depending on your views) we should be doing, but rather I am curious if the women in ministry advocates in the Pentecostal Church have overlooked the level of acceptance that already exists.
1 Tim.2:[12] But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.[13] For Adam was first formed, then Eve.[14] And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.[15] Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety
Women can teach,preach,prophecy to other women.Titus2:[3] The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;[4] That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children
If a man,not a woman desires the office of bishop,a bishop MUST be able to teach and a woman can't teach a man.1 Tim.3:[1] This is a true saying, If a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.[2] A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;[3] Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
A WOMAN CAN"T RULE THE HOUSE [4] One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;[5] (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)[6] Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.[7] Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
A woman can prophecy(Foretell,).Acts2:[17] And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God,I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:[18] And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy
A woman can prophecy(fortell) in assemblies as long as she stays under the athority of the men).1 Cor.14:[29] Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge.[30] If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.[31] For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted.[32] And the spirits of the prophets are subject to the prophets.[33] For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
A woman must be veiled with a veil when praying or prophesying as a sign she is under athority of the men.A woman has two veils,one her long hair and the other a veil when she prays and prophesieth.1 Cor.11:[3] But I would have you know, that the head (athority)of every man is Christ; and the head (athority)of the woman is the man; and the head (athority)of Christ is God.
[4] Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered(veiled), dishonoureth his head(athority,Christ).[5] But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered(unveiled) dishonoureth her head(athority,man): for that is even all one as if she were shaven.[6] For if the woman be not covered(veiled), let her also be shorn(cut her hair): but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn(cut her hair) or shaven, let her be covered(veiled).
[7] For a man indeed ought not to cover (veil)his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.[8] For the man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man.[9] Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.[10] For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.[11] Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.
[12] For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of god.[13] Judge in yourselves: is it comely that a woman pray unto God uncovered(unveiled)?[14] Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a shame unto him?[15] But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering(veiling).[16] But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.
A woman can't talk and ask questions in the assemblies.1 Cor.14:[35] And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak (Ask questions,talk)in the church(assemblies).[36] What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?[37] If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord
Esther
04-03-2007, 02:20 PM
Seems there are many complaints these days about women not being accepted in ministerial capacities in Pentecostal Churches. I rarely hear any thankfulness that most Pentecostal Churches are and have always been more tolerant than most mainstream Protestant Churches when it comes to this topic.
My intent in this thread is not to hash out how much more or less (depending on your views) we should be doing, but rather I am curious if the women in ministry advocates in the Pentecostal Church have overlooked the level of acceptance that already exists.
I know the Baptist don't allow women ministers at all.
Felicity
04-03-2007, 02:47 PM
I'm only one woman but Pentecost has been mighty good to me.
Felicity
04-03-2007, 02:50 PM
BOBBYE WENDELL??????????????
OH MY GOSH! I have tapes of her you need to hear!
Screamin, hollerin, LOUD rough hardnosed preachin! And the tapes don't do her justice! You would have had to been there to see the actions with the noise!
I haven't heard her in years and would love to hear her again. She will make a person want to just crawl under a pew and pray for hours...she really gets the job done!
Btw, this is now official "LadyRev picks on Felicity" day! :neener :winkgrin LOL! Join the club. I'm good for it!
Bobbye Wendell is one tremendous woman of God. I've never heard her speak in that manner as far as screaming and hollering but if she does I'll give her thumbs up anyhow.
I've heard her speak a couple times ..... once at Gen. Conference. I was so impacted by that message! Got a chance to talk with her later in line for dinner at the restaurant. There was that instant connection that you get when you meet some people, you know?
mfblume
04-03-2007, 04:45 PM
The late Sister Nilah Mean said women preachers were far more accepted in the early days of Pentecost than they are now. She was wanting to write a book entitled Women Preachers: The Dying Breed
.
Newman
04-03-2007, 07:38 PM
Women who took a ministry role as we would define it are very rare in Scripture.
I believe they are the exception more than the rule.
This is why they are rare today. Not non-existent, but uncommon.
Whether you are a man or a woman, if you have got the goods, your gift is going to make room for you.
That's why you see ladies like our own Sister Alvear who doesn't need anybody defending her ministry--it speaks for itself.
If you are sitting back crying about how powerful you would be if only you got the breaks others got, you probably don't have what it takes. That goes for men and women.
1. Rare/ Common denominator being that they aren't noted to have children which is an extreme rarity to begin with. Of course; women now have many more productive years outside of child bearing.
2. I believe that gifts spoken of in Proverbs probably went to physical objects/ bribes etc. We see many in the OT presenting gifts upon meeting others.
3. Spiritual gifts generally need development. Paul told Timothy to stir up the gift that was in him.
4. If development weren't necesary than the concept of mentorship in the church among ministers would be non-existent and we wouldn't have young men preaching until they were FULLY GIFTED.
5. Sister Alvear is married to a minister. She lives in South America where other men don't want to go.
6. Very few start out as spiritual giants that could overcome the obstacles in their path by themselves. I am not so sure that some will have to answer to God for the women within their churches that they did not nurture and allow to develop / the talent that was put in their hand to plant but wasn't.
7. I don't think it a coincidence that the Apostolic Church in America grew fastest when it was less institutionalized and the women had more freedom to minister across a pulpit. IMO :cool:
commonsense
04-03-2007, 07:57 PM
Interesting points on women in ministry. I know as child I heard many women preachers. Since it was accepted at our church,I also accepted it. Until I was older, did not realize not all churches or saints accepted women preachers.
I'll lean toward Bro Norris' teaching...God would prefer to use a man, but if a man will not step up to the job, God will use a willing, able woman.
It's many years since I heard Bobbye W.
My old memory cells do not recall all the names of women I've heard.
I remember two gals that traveled together in the 50's and sang together (guitar) and then the one preached. While it was from the heart....their singing was really pretty bad.
Steve Epley
04-03-2007, 08:24 PM
Yep God miscalculated the men wouldn't go so he sent the women instead?? Looks like God being infinite and all he would have known the men wouldn't go and sent the women first? Funny though who was that woman apostle Jesus chose to be with the eleven???? And why in the upper room with Mary and the other women present an unknown MAN takes Judas' place? Odd isn't it?
Trouvere
04-04-2007, 01:31 AM
Bobby Wendell what a woman...I just listened to one of her sermons and gave it to my daughter to listen to while I am here in the states...I wept...and wept...and wept...The title was "in a moment of time"...
I was at conference in Louisville,Kentucky last year and heard that and stayed there on the carpet for an hour.I know how you feel.It was awesome.
Her words were so precious.And precious Sister Freeman... a living legend among us...
Even though Brazil is a different world there are many that are against women...but in our work we seldom have brushed sholders with these guys...BUT our women are trained to respect men and I HAVE never seen one lady mouth off about men...
I personally am no threat to men for those that know me most know I HATE to get up before a crowd and especially in the states...Sometimes duty requires to do certain things...but I tremble to get up before a crowd.
I agree.
Trouvere
04-04-2007, 01:32 AM
Yep God miscalculated the men wouldn't go so he sent the women instead?? Looks like God being infinite and all he would have known the men wouldn't go and sent the women first? Funny though who was that woman apostle Jesus chose to be with the eleven???? And why in the upper room with Mary and the other women present an unknown MAN takes Judas' place? Odd isn't it?
Aren't you UPC licensed?
Steve Epley
04-04-2007, 06:20 AM
Aren't you UPC licensed?
Nope!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And never was and never had a desire to be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:tiphat
Rhoni
04-04-2007, 06:30 AM
1. Rare/ Common denominator being that they aren't noted to have children which is an extreme rarity to begin with. Of course; women now have many more productive years outside of child bearing.
2. I believe that gifts spoken of in Proverbs probably went to physical objects/ bribes etc. We see many in the OT presenting gifts upon meeting others.
3. Spiritual gifts generally need development. Paul told Timothy to stir up the gift that was in him.
4. If development weren't necesary than the concept of mentorship in the church among ministers would be non-existent and we wouldn't have young men preaching until they were FULLY GIFTED.
5. Sister Alvear is married to a minister. She lives in South America where other men don't want to go.
6. Very few start out as spiritual giants that could overcome the obstacles in their path by themselves. I am not so sure that some will have to answer to God for the women within their churches that they did not nurture and allow to develop / the talent that was put in their hand to plant but wasn't.
7. I don't think it a coincidence that the Apostolic Church in America grew fastest when it was less institutionalized and the women had more freedom to minister across a pulpit. IMO :cool:
Excellent points!
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