Red on Women Drives Men Wild

[El Predicador]

FINALLY proof the elders had it right all along.

REMOVE NOT THE ANCIENT LANDMARKS!!!!!!



Red may be the color of love for a reason: It makes men feel more amorous towards women, a new study reports.

From ancient rituals to those red paper lace hearts on Valentines, red has been tied to carnal passions and romance in many cultures over the course of history.

In five psychological experiments, University of Rochester psychologists tested how different colors affected men's attitudes towards women.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20081028/sc_livescience/redonwomendrivesmenwild

[ILG]

LOL! You better get that red off your screen. You don't know who you might be tempting!!:ursofunny

[Sam]

Amen,

ya lo creo

[RandyWayne]

...she's dancing with me, cheek to cheek!

[tstew]

LOL! You better get that red off your screen. You don't know who you might be tempting!!:ursofunny

:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny

[tstew]

FINALLY proof the elders had it right all along.

REMOVE NOT THE ANCIENT LANDMARKS!!!!!!



Red may be the color of love for a reason: It makes men feel more amorous towards women, a new study reports.

From ancient rituals to those red paper lace hearts on Valentines, red has been tied to carnal passions and romance in many cultures over the course of history.

In five psychological experiments, University of Rochester psychologists tested how different colors affected men's attitudes towards women.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20081028/sc_livescience/redonwomendrivesmenwild

I say that perfume has the same affect. And have you seen those Axe commercials? I say we go French from here on out. :whistle

[RandyWayne]

I say that perfume has the same affect. And have you seen those Axe commercials? I say we go French from here on out. :whistle

I bought the stuff (Axe) -it doesn't work quite like the commercials say it should. In fact, I would go so far as to say the commercials are a bit misleading!

[rgcraig]

All I'm saying is....

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f108/rgcraig/red-1.jpg

[Pressing-On]

My husband is color blind. I have to use other methods. :toofunny

[Pressing-On]

I bought the stuff (Axe) -it doesn't work quite like the commercials say it should. In fact, I would go so far as to say the commercials are a bit misleading!

:toofunny

[rgcraig]

I say that perfume has the same affect. And have you seen those Axe commercials? I say we go French from here on out. :whistle

Actually, they've said the aroma of fresh cinnamon rolls could have the same affect too! :dance

[ILG]

"She is not afraid of the snow for her household: for all her household are clothed with scarlet" Proverbs 31:21

The wise woman of proverbs clothed her whole family in scarlet. Maybe she felt men's lusts were something THEY needed to deal with.

[Pressing-On]

Actually, they've said the aroma of fresh cinnamon rolls could have the same affect too! :dance

Totally true and I'm not kidding. I can talk my husband into anything when he's hungry! :toofunny

[Sam]

Actually, they've said the aroma of fresh cinnamon rolls could have the same affect too! :dance

Doesn't the Bible say that the way to a man's heart is through his stomach?

[Cindy]

Men are just weak. Poor things.

[Digging4Truth]

I say that perfume has the same affect. And have you seen those Axe commercials? I say we go French from here on out. :whistle

You bite your tongue while I hold my nose. :)

[El Predicador]

Funny how those who walk away from the ancient landmarks of our fathers' MOCK

when science proves that the ELDERS were correct after all!!!!


Its only a matter of time until someone proves this "Jesus in my boyfriend music" promotes HOMOSEXUALIY!!!!

[tstew]

I bought the stuff (Axe) -it doesn't work quite like the commercials say it should. In fact, I would go so far as to say the commercials are a bit misleading!

Yeah...apparently you can get in a little trouble for trying that in an elevator. Oh well, you live and learn.

[Digging4Truth]

Funny how those who walk away from the ancient landmarks of our fathers' MOCK

when science proves that the ELDERS were correct after all!!!!


Its only a matter of time until someone proves this "Jesus in my boyfriend music" promotes HOMOSEXUALIY!!!!

You see... the limitation is that I draw my "ancient" landmarks from the Bible.

Which scriptures did the ELDERS draw their prohibition of red from?

[tstew]

Funny how those who walk away from the ancient landmarks of our fathers' MOCK

when science proves that the ELDERS were correct after all!!!!


Its only a matter of time until someone proves this "Jesus in my boyfriend music" promotes HOMOSEXUALIY!!!!

El Predicator, I can appreciate your position and I am not trying to be dismissive, but I do believe that as a Holy Ghost filled man, I have a bit more self control than to go all "el torro vs el matador" at the sight of red.

[Cindy]

Amen,

ya lo creo

uh huh, and btw Sam, love the avatar.

[Pressing-On]

Men are just weak. Poor things.
LOL! That can come in handy on occasion. :toofunny

[ILG]

Funny how those who walk away from the ancient landmarks of our fathers' MOCK

when science proves that the ELDERS were correct after all!!!!


Its only a matter of time until someone proves this "Jesus in my boyfriend music" promotes HOMOSEXUALIY!!!!

So the wise woman is proverbs shouldn't have clothed her family in scarlet??

Are you saying the things the "fathers" said were more right than the scriptures??

Maybe red does tempt men more but SO WHAT???? Men have to control their OWN lusts. Or the woman in proverbs would not be clothing her household in scarlet!!

[Ron]

Depends on which women!

I have seen a crack addict all eaten with sores wear red, it does nothing for me!

Now my wife well......:whistle

[tstew]

On a serious note, I have to say that sometimes when we make these kinds of statements we end up looking a bit foolish. We spend a lot of our time questioning scientists, disputing their claims and findings, and painting their discipline as counter to the Word of God...until they finally say something that we think helps us, then they become emperical evidence.

[Sam]

uh huh, and btw Sam, love the avatar.

which one?

I've had several different ones over the past few days.

[ILG]

On a serious note, I have to say that sometimes when we make these kinds of statements we end up looking a bit foolish. We spend a lot of our time questioning scientists, disputing their claims and findings, and painting their discipline as counter to the Word of God...until they finally say something that we think helps us, then they become imperical evidence.

LOL! Good point!

[TRFrance]

Doesn't the Bible say that the way to a man's heart is through his stomach?
Umm....I've never seen that in the Bible.

Maybe I missed it though.
That must be right after the verse that says "God helps those who help themselves" :tease

[El Predicador]

Men are just weak. Poor things.

LOL! That can come in handy on occasion. :toofunny

Eastern culture has always known this !!!

Read your Bible Joseph and Potiphar's wife, the whore of Babylon, the young man in Proverbs.

I hate to say it but in some ways maybe the Muslim's understand lust better than Americans.

At least the Americans that have totally abandoned holiness!!!!

Why do you think a Jezebel and a hussy paints her lips RED !!!!!!

[ILG]

eastern culture has always known this !!!

read your bible joseph and potiphar's wife, the whore of babylon, the young man in proverbs.

i hate to say it but in some ways maybe the muslim's understand lust better than americans.

at least the americans that have totally abandoned holiness!!!!

why do you think a jezebel and a hussy paints her lips red !!!!!!

Why does the woman in proverbs clothe her household in scarlet???

[ILG]

Unfortunately, you are revering men more than the Bible.

[TRFrance]

You see... the limitation is that I draw my "ancient" landmarks from the Bible.

Which scriptures did the ELDERS draw their prohibition of red from?

Thank you. I think the Bible is a more "ancient landmark" that the word of the 20th-century elders.

-----

P.S.
I'm starting to wonder if "El Predicador" is a real conservative.... or just someone who's trying to be a caricature of what some people think a hardline conservative is like.

[Pressing-On]

Eastern culture has always known this !!!

Read your Bible Joseph and Potiphar's wife, the whore of Babylon, the young man in Proverbs.

I hate to say it but in some ways maybe the Muslim's understand lust better than Americans.

At least the Americans that have totally abandoned holiness!!!!

Why do you think a Jezebel and a hussy paints her lips RED !!!!!!

You're weird.

[Digging4Truth]

Why does the woman in proverbs clothe her household in scarlet???

It appears that not only do folks pick and choose the scientific studies that support their position.

They also pick and choose their scriptures as well.

[El Predicador]

El Predicator, I can appreciate your position and I am not trying to be dismissive, but I do believe that as a Holy Ghost filled man, I have a bit more self control than to go all "el torro vs el matador" at the sight of red.

I am glad YOU yield to the Holy Ghost brother, not all men do!!!

Did people here even read the article?

Or the one accompanying it?

About WHY it happens?

[TRFrance]

Funny how those who walk away from the ancient landmarks of our fathers' MOCK

when science proves that the ELDERS were correct after all!!!!


Its only a matter of time until someone proves this "Jesus in my boyfriend music" promotes HOMOSEXUALIY!!!!

So the wise woman is proverbs shouldn't have clothed her family in scarlet??

Are you saying the things the "fathers" said were more right than the scriptures??


Why does the woman in proverbs clothe her household in scarlet???
Good questions.
How can anyone "mock the elders" using the word of God? Truth is truth, period.
If the word of God "mocks" the word of the elders, then maybe there's something wrong with the word of the elders.

[ILG]

Good questions.
How can anyone "mock the elders" using the word of God? Truth is truth, period.
If the word of God "mocks" the word of the elders, then maybe there's something wrong with the word of the elders.

Amen.

[Cindy]

Eastern culture has always known this !!!

Read your Bible Joseph and Potiphar's wife, the whore of Babylon, the young man in Proverbs.

I hate to say it but in some ways maybe the Muslim's understand lust better than Americans.

At least the Americans that have totally abandoned holiness!!!!

Why do you think a Jezebel and a hussy paints her lips RED !!!!!!

I wasn't arguing with this premise by the way. As Eve blamed the serpent, and Adam blamed Eve. And we all know it started with that fruit that was red of course. I just don't believe that red is more attractive to men than say black lacy things.

[El Predicador]

Why does the woman in proverbs clothe her household in scarlet???

Sister it is an unfortunate translation.

If you will do a word study scarlet was also a specific word used to denote a TYPE of cloth in Medieval England (King James) as opposed to scarlet the color.

Even Wikipedia will verify that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet

[Subdued]

Eastern culture has always known this !!!


Read your Bible Joseph and Potiphar's wife, the whore of Babylon, the young man in Proverbs.

I hate to say it but in some ways maybe the Muslim's understand lust better than Americans.

At least the Americans that have totally abandoned holiness!!!!


Why do you think a Jezebel and a hussy paints her lips RED !!!!!!



Are you for real... or are you joking?

[El Predicador]

I wasn't arguing with this premise by the way. As Eve blamed the serpent, and Adam blamed Eve. And we all know it started with that fruit that was red of course. I just don't believe that red is more attractive to men than say black lacy things.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20081028/sc_livescience/redonwomendrivesmenwild

Once again, please read the article.

As far as black lacy things I assume you are implying a certain state of undress.

And yes, a woman fully covered in a red dress would probably be less seductive than one in black lace and partially clothed.

But that does not mean that red clothes on women do not stir up a man's passions.

Once again read the article.

[ILG]

Sister it is an unfortunate translation.

If you will do a word study scarlet was also a specific word used to denote a TYPE of cloth in Medieval England (King James) as opposed to scarlet the color.

Even Wikipedia will verify that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet

El Predicador,

You are headed down a very dangerous path. I know. I used to be there. Don't explain away the Word of God to back up "elders". You remind me of Emma. But, seriously, you need to take all of the Word and not just bits and pieces that hold up your elders high. They (the elders) are wrong.

[El Predicador]

You're weird.

I prefer to the term peculiar.


1 Peter 2:9

[El Predicador]

All I'm saying is....

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f108/rgcraig/red-1.jpg

Thank you for even more proof sister !!

[ILG]

Thank you for even more proof sister !!

Why are you posting in red? Isn't that a contradiction?

[tstew]

Thank you for even more proof sister !!

Did that do something for you bro? :)

[rgcraig]

Eastern culture has always known this !!!

Read your Bible Joseph and Potiphar's wife, the whore of Babylon, the young man in Proverbs.

I hate to say it but in some ways maybe the Muslim's understand lust better than Americans.

At least the Americans that have totally abandoned holiness!!!!

Why do you think a Jezebel and a hussy paints her lips RED !!!!!!

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f108/rgcraig/mouths_003.gif

[MissBrattified]

Sister it is an unfortunate translation.

If you will do a word study scarlet was also a specific word used to denote a TYPE of cloth in Medieval England (King James) as opposed to scarlet the color.

Even Wikipedia will verify that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet

It is?

"scarlet" (from Strong's)

Of uncertain derivation; crimson, properly the insect or its color, also stuff dyed with it: - crimson, scarlet (thread).

[Pressing-On]

I prefer to the term peculiar.


1 Peter 2:9



No, I didn't mean, peculiar (purchased). I just meant plain and unadulterated - weird (strikingly odd)! :D

[El Predicador]

Its only a matter of time until someone proves this "Jesus in my boyfriend music" promotes HOMOSEXUALIY!!!!

Between the seducing spirits and effeminate spirit in the church is it any wonder we don't have old time revival?

[Sam]

Why are you posting in red? Isn't that a contradiction?


Maybe he's posting in red to inflame the passion of the guys here.

[Cindy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20081028/sc_livescience/redonwomendrivesmenwild

Once again, please read the article.

As far as black lacy things I assume you are implying a certain state of undress.

And yes, a woman fully covered in a red dress would probably be less seductive than one in black lace and partially clothed.

But that does not mean that red clothes on women do not stir up a man's passions.

Once again read the article.

Well I may be wrong, but I see women wearing some tops that look like undergarments. I was just teasing you btw. I just find it hard to believe certain colors affect people that way. I do now that certain smells affect people differently, so the same may be true for colors. Men are more visual than women too.

[Ron]

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f108/rgcraig/mouths_003.gif

You. you hussy!:jaw

[MissBrattified]

I think El Predicament is playing a game full of facetiousness. :coffee2

Bored already, EP? Don't you have better things to do?

[El Predicador]

Did that do something for you bro? :)

No like you I have the Holy Ghost.

But answer why else would a woman wear:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f108/rgcraig/red-1.jpg

[ILG]

Between the seducing spirits and effeminate spirit in the church is it any wonder we don't have old time revival?

EP,

If everyone repented and quit wearing red, there would still be no revival. I know, EP, I tried all these things. I did everything they told me to do and still....no revival. It doesn't work, EP. Please think before you thorw years of your life away believing a lie.

[MissBrattified]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20081028/sc_livescience/redonwomendrivesmenwild

Once again, please read the article.

As far as black lacy things I assume you are implying a certain state of undress.

And yes, a woman fully covered in a red dress would probably be less seductive than one in black lace and partially clothed.

But that does not mean that red clothes on women do not stir up a man's passions.

Once again read the article.

So? A good-looking man looks even more dashing in a well-cut pinstripe suit--should we ban the suits? Or can they only buy the cheap ones that hang badly off the shoulders and sag in the rear?

[El Predicador]

Well I may be wrong, but I see women wearing some tops that look like undergarments. I was just teasing you btw. I just find it hard to believe certain colors affect people that way. I do now that certain smells affect people differently, so the same may be true for colors. Men are more visual than women too.

Unfortunate but true sister.

[Ron]

EP,

If everyone repented and quit wearing red, there would still be no revival. I know, EP, I tried all these things. I did everything they told me to do and still....no revival. It doesn't work, EP. Please think before you thorw years of your life away believing a lie.

ILG, all kidding aside, I believe an effeminate spirit is creeping into the Church!

He is right in that regard.

[Cindy]

I read the article, but I wonder how many men were in the study, their backgrounds, etc.

[El Predicador]

Maybe he's posting in red to inflame the passion of the guys here.

Only if they printed out the posts and made them into dresses.

It is not print on a screen it is clothes on women.

The article was a study and the title of this thread is not MINE it is the researcher's.

[Sam]

All I'm saying is....

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f108/rgcraig/red-1.jpg


WOW!!!!!

That is really sinful!!!!

The color RED is totally sinful.
It causes your brothers to lust.
You could be a stumbling block and cause a brother to go to hell.

And heels like that
high heels cause the hemline to rise a little, exposing more of the ankle and calf.
high heels cause the calf muscle to tighten, emphasizing the curve of the leg.

Also, that shoe looked shiny. Shiny shoes, or patent leather shoes, serve as mirrors so that people can look at them in order to see up your dress.

I guess the only good thing that could be said for shoes like that is that they are not open toed but there is still a lot of nekkid foot displayed.

[MissBrattified]

These are super-cute!!!!

1502

[El Predicador]

These are super-cute!!!!

1502

And the heels are meant to raise a certain part of the female gender's anatomy to make them more sexually attractive.

Please forgive my frank use of language.

[Maple Leaf]

Sister it is an unfortunate translation.

If you will do a word study scarlet was also a specific word used to denote a TYPE of cloth in Medieval England (King James) as opposed to scarlet the color.

Even Wikipedia will verify that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet

A laughable attempt to avoid the obvious meaning of the Scriptures.

Pseudo scholarship at its silly best.

[rgcraig]

No like you I have the Holy Ghost.

But answer why else would a woman wear:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f108/rgcraig/red-1.jpg

Because she's short and they match her outfit!

[MissBrattified]

And the heels are meant to raise a certain part of the female gender's anatomy to make them more sexually attractive.

Please forgive my frank use of language.

No, they're intended to make short people (like me) a lot taller. :coffee2

These are also cute, and I have several pairs of red or red/white flats:

http://imgs.yoox.biz/44/441079641F_2.jpg

Why do men assume that every item of clothing a woman puts on is for their benefit? LOL!!!!

[Cindy]

You may be right, and of course more men design clothes and shoes than women.

[Cindy]

These are super-cute!!!!

1502

I like those more than the other pair that was shown.

[El Predicador]

ILG, all kidding aside, I believe an effeminate spirit is creeping into the Church!

He is right in that regard.

Thank you brother.

And amen.

Jezebel seduction is not about sex, it is use of sex as power.

A Jezebel spirit only pretends to make a male feel manly, but its goal is emasculation.

And with lowering of standards it is creeping into our churches.

Men, a mistress just wants control over you don't stray !!

[Digging4Truth]

Must every thread dwindle down to standards or shoes?

:ursofunny

[El Predicador]

you may be right, and of course more men design clothes and shoes than women.

homosexual men !!!

[MissBrattified]

Thank you brother.

And amen.

Jezebel seduction is not about sex, it is use of sex as power.

A Jezebel spirit only pretends to make a male feel manly, but its goal is emasculation.

And with lowering of standards it is creeping into our churches.

Men, a mistress just wants control over you don't stray !!

Do you have a mistress who is tempting you, EP? Is she someone you've met online? Does she wear a red dress in her avatar? :whistle

[Ron]

homosexual men !!!

Yup!

[ILG]

Thank you brother.

And amen.

Jezebel seduction is not about sex, it is use of sex as power.

A Jezebel spirit only pretends to make a male feel manly, but its goal is emasculation.

And with lowering of standards it is creeping into our churches.

Men, a mistress just wants control over you don't stray !!

Are you sure this isn't just a bunch of twisted scriptures spoken by men who want control over YOU and the church????

[tamor]

No like you I have the Holy Ghost.

But answer why else would a woman wear:

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f108/rgcraig/red-1.jpg

Because she likes them!

[rgcraig]

Because she likes them!

Or because they were on sale!

[Pressing-On]

Men, a mistress just wants control over you don't stray !!
Excuse me, but that is ridiculous. Her only goal is to "control him"? What about the mistress that finds that she actually cares, deeply, for the man she was tempted by?

I'm not supporting the wrong of the "mistress", but you are broadbrushing here.

[Cindy]

I would probably fall over if I tried to wear shoes like that. :)

[Withdrawn]

Must every thread dwindle down to standards or shoes?

Shows a general lack of spiritual maturity. Immature christians need the man-made rules and traditions. Without them, they'd realize how naked they really are.

How can anyone really explain the general demeanor of (many of) those here who are so hardline about standards, or the "old landmarks", or the "tradition of the elders." Their demeanor is VERY JUDGMENTAL of those who hold any standard other than their own, and are typically downright mean about it. There's no love there, no compassion, no longsuffering, no berean attempt to expound the Word of God to us to show us "the truth." I know I'm painting with a broad brush, but it's only for the sake of this point. But many (maybe most) have very little fruit of the Spirit, but insist that they are holy because of their "self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body." Colossians 2.20-23. Holiness would be reflected in their conversation. Unfortunately, often it is not.

[Digging4Truth]

Or because they were on sale!

Well I hope the sale was good enough that she can afford her co-pay when she falls off those things and breaks a limb.

:)

[rgcraig]

Must every thread dwindle down to standards or shoes?

:ursofunny

No, some explode to fusses and fights!

[tamor]

Or because they were on sale!

Or both!

[Digging4Truth]

No, some explode to fusses and fights!

Yes... when threads dwindle to that point I mark them and avoid them.

[Ron]

No, some explode to fusses and fights!

Yes... when threads dwindle to that point I mark them and avoid them.

Amen!

[MarcBee]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20081028/sc_livescience/redonwomendrivesmenwild

Once again, please read the article.





Yes, red clothing does stand out in a crowd. And thank God--how ELSE would I ever find Waldo?

SOS
:neener

[smurfette]

Why is it that it is the women tempting the men in the way they dress? A very well dressed, handsome man can be just as tempting to a woman. It just seems to be such a double standard. Just my 2 cents.

[El Predicador]

Shows a general lack of spiritual maturity. Immature christians need the man-made rules and traditions. Without them, they'd realize how naked they really are.

How can anyone really explain the general demeanor of (many of) those here who are so hardline about standards, or the "old landmarks", or the "tradition of the elders." Their demeanor is VERY JUDGMENTAL of those who hold any standard other than their own, and are typically downright mean about it. There's no love there, no compassion, no longsuffering, no berean attempt to expound the Word of God to us to show us "the truth." I know I'm painting with a broad brush, but it's only for the sake of this point. But many (maybe most) have very little fruit of the Spirit, but insist that they are holy because of their "self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body." Colossians 2.20-23. Holiness would be reflected in their conversation. Unfortunately, often it is not.

I do agree with this post.

And I hope I was not included in your "broad brush".

I never said it was a heaven or hell issue.

I said sometimes the elders got it right and were mocked by the next generation.

Men are more visual.

SOME women use this to entice.

The color red on a woman is sensual to a man.

In their spirit these elders felt something and preached it as a standard.

Science now states what they observed was correct.

[tstew]

I would probably fall over if I tried to wear shoes like that. :)

No, once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy. :whistle:aaa

[Encryptus]

No, once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy. :whistle:aaa

Careful dude that sounds too much like the voice of experience

:evilglee

[TRFrance]

Are you for real... or are you joking?

I'd like to think he's joking...maybe he's just someone who comes on here trying to "stir the pot", as some like to do.

If he's for real that would almost be kinda sad.


-----------

But anyway, El Predicador, 2 questions for you: If God didnt want us to wear red, why didnt he just tell us that in the Bible?

And the smell of perfume is also appealing to a man too. Should we preach against perfume also?

.

[tstew]

Careful dude that sounds too much like the voice of experience

:evilglee

Yeah, that was the TIC intention. I can only be serious in spurts.

[Cindy]

No, once you get the hang of it, it's pretty easy. :whistle:aaa

:ursofunny

[El Predicador]

Why is it that it is the women tempting the men in the way they dress? A very well dressed, handsome man can be just as tempting to a woman. It just seems to be such a double standard. Just my 2 cents.

Smurfette I am glad you are attracted to men, if that were not the case I assume another thread would be in order.

[Esther]

Funny how those who walk away from the ancient landmarks of our fathers' MOCK

when science proves that the ELDERS were correct after all!!!!


Its only a matter of time until someone proves this "Jesus in my boyfriend music" promotes HOMOSEXUALIY!!!!

I don't know what Elders you are referring to as teaching that nonesense. I grew up in the south known as the Bible belt and I never heard it taught that wearing Red was sinful.

IF RED is a sinful color then why did He put it in His Tabernacle?

[Withdrawn]

I do agree with this post.

And I hope I was not included in your "broad brush".

I never said it was a heaven or hell issue.

I said sometimes the elders got it right and were mocked by the next generation.

Men are more visual.

SOME women use this to entice.

The color red on a woman is sensual to a man.

In their spirit these elders felt something and preached it as a standard.

Science now states what they observed was correct.

I appreciate your agreement. And I hope you're not in the broad brush I used.

I wonder, though, why so much time trying to defend and convince people (through science, no less) what the 20th century elders believed. Many of these "elders" also believed in the trinity and the "one-step" doctrine. But on matters of "holiness" they are somehow revered as infallible because some in the movement are starting to see freedom from a codified structure that ignores the work of grace in our lives. This freedom is a threat to "the old standard" because it's something that control freaks cannot control.

TRFrance has valid questions below, that I hope will evoke a response, and not a rebuke.

But anyway, El Predicador, 2 questions for you: If God didnt want us to wear red, why didnt he just tell us that in the Bible?

And the smell of perfume is also appealing to a man too. Should we preach against perfume also?

.

God bless.

[Withdrawn]

I don't know what Elders you are referring to as teaching that nonesense. I grew up in the south known as the Bible belt and I never heard it taught that wearing Red was sinful.

IF RED is a sinful color then why did He put it in His Tabernacle?

Interesting! The sanctuary of the church where I received the Holy Ghost was RED RED RED. Bright red carpet. Bright red pews and chairs. It's surprising, really, if red is so evil that I was able to even repent, much less receive the Holy Ghost baptism.

[smurfette]

Smurfette I am glad you are attracted to men, if that were not the case I assume another thread would be in order.

I don't think you are getting what I am saying. I am saying that women can be just as attracted to men as men are to women. We never tell men to not wear a specific color because the women will go wild with attraction. I believe modesty is always in order, however, If a man is lusting over someone the color is not going to make a difference.

For example... I'm sure that a man will still comit terrible acts to a woman wearing a black burca just the same as a woman wearing red. If it is in his heart, it doesn't matter what she wears.

This is why we need to Holy Ghost to guide and lead us.

[Cindy]

Careful dude that sounds too much like the voice of experience

:evilglee

Yep!

[El Predicador]

I do agree with this post.

And I hope I was not included in your "broad brush".

I never said it was a heaven or hell issue.

I said sometimes the elders got it right and were mocked by the next generation.

Men are more visual.

Some women use this to entice.

The color red on a woman is sensual to a man.

In their spirit these elders felt something and preached it as a standard.

Science now states what they observed was correct.

bump for ester

LINK TO ARTICLE BELOW

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20081028/sc_livescience/redonwomendrivesmenwild

[Pressing-On]

Excuse me, but that is ridiculous. Her only goal is to "control him"? What about the mistress that finds that she actually cares, deeply, for the man she was tempted by?

I'm not supporting the wrong of the "mistress", but you are broadbrushing here.

*bump* for El Predicador!

[Esther]

bump for ester

LINK TO ARTICLE BELOW

http://news.yahoo.com/s/livescience/20081028/sc_livescience/redonwomendrivesmenwild

Personally I don't care what the article says. There is NO Bible to back it up for one thing and my main issue is it is good enough for the House of God it is good enough for me.

[rgcraig]

*bump* for El Predicador!

She's still a sinnin' :ursofunny

[El Predicador]

I don't think you are getting what I am saying. I am saying that women can be just as attracted to men as men are to women. We never tell men to not wear a specific color because the women will go wild with attraction. I believe modesty is always in order, however, If a man is lusting over someone the color is not going to make a difference.

For example... I'm sure that a man will still comit terrible acts to a woman wearing a black burca just the same as a woman wearing red. If it is in his heart, it doesn't matter what she wears.

This is why we need to Holy Ghost to guide and lead us.

I understood Smurfette,

Men are more visual than women

Men react to the color red in a woman's clothes

(Apparently not true for women)

Example is it "possible" for a drunk man or woman NOT to have illicit sex?

(ONCE again Please forgive my use of frank words but I am appalled by the world's use of "making love")

OF COURSE

But that does not change the fact being drunk impedes judgment.

Hence the scripture opposes drunkenness.

[smurfette]

I understood Smurfette,

Men are more visual than women

Men react to the color red in a woman's clothes

(Apparently not true for women)

Example is it "possible" for a drunk man or woman NOT to have illicit sex?

(ONCE again Please forgive my use of frank words but I am appalled by the world's use of "making love")

OF COURSE

But that does not change the fact being drunk impedes judgment.

Hence the scripture opposes drunkenness.

So where is your scripture for not wearing red?

[Rhoni]

I don't know what Elders you are referring to as teaching that nonesense. I grew up in the south known as the Bible belt and I never heard it taught that wearing Red was sinful.

IF RED is a sinful color then why did He put it in His Tabernacle?

When I was 15 years old I went to our Christmas banquet in a red velvet dress and the mother of the boy I went to the banquet with made a snide comment about red being what harlots wore in the Bible. She needn't have worried since I didn't know what sex was and her son had never even been kissed.:tease

Blessings, Rhoni

P.S. LEGALISM FOLKS:snapout

[Rhoni]

So where is your scripture for not wearing red?

There is none...besides some men react more to black:tease

[Pressing-On]

She's still a sinnin' :ursofunny
:toofunny :toofunny

Seriously, Renda. Do you agree with El Predicador that the "mistress" just wants to control the man? I haven't seen that to be the case in the lives of women I have known.

[Pressing-On]

Personally I don't care what the article says. There is NO Bible to back it up for one thing and my main issue is it is good enough for the House of God it is good enough for me.

Preach, Esther!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[El Predicador]

So where is your scripture for not wearing red?

Please read every post on this thread and tell me where I said that.

Where is your scripture for not tattooing your face?

Some things are common sense.

:friend

[Ferd]

I remember when time back in the deep dark ages of my childhood.

Dad and i were out in the field working on a tractor. Dad was underneath the machine working elbow deep in grease and grime, covered in the dirt that marked him as a farmer.

I was at best as dirty if not more so, having spent the better part of the morning playing in the clods of dirt turned by the plow.

All the sudden I heard him say "OH NO!" Thinking dad was hurt, I ran to where he was to find out what had happened. "Whats the matter daddy!?"

His reply was something along the lines of "Son i have really messed up, Ive forgotten your mothers birthday!"

The long standing tradition was that dad bought mom a pair of high heeled red shoes for her birthday.

So the two of us looking like we had just rolled out from under a tractor parked in the middle of a half plowed field (which is exactly what we were) jumped into the truck and made off to Lake Charles some 50 odd miles away to find the perfect pair of red shoes.

Mom surely thought dad had forgotten that evening when we dragged in from a long day in the pasture. Dad had me slip around to the back door of the trailer we lived in and put that box on their bed.

Eventually mom found the box and was beyond pleased with her boys that we had pulled off such a stunt.

I dont know if red makes men crazy, but thanks for the thread. It brought back a great memory from my childhood.

[Pressing-On]

Please read every post on this thread and tell me where I said that.

Where is your scripture for not tattooing your face?

Some things are common sense.

:friend
I'm wearing a red suit to church this Sunday - seriously. I really am!

After I get dressed I'll ask my husband if he would rather stay home from church. I'll let you know what his answer is. :toofunny

[Subdued]

When I was 15 years old I went to our Christmas banquet in a red velvet dress and the mother of the boy I went to the banquet with made a snide comment about red being what harlots wore in the Bible. She needn't have worried since I didn't know what sex was and her son had never even been kissed.:tease

Blessings, Rhoni

P.S. LEGALISM FOLKS:snapout


You didn't know what sex was at age 15???

[DividedThigh]

my wife is hot, regardless of what color, lol

[smurfette]

Please read every post on this thread and tell me where I said that.

Where is your scripture for not tattooing your face?

Some things are common sense.

:friend

Sounds like you are having a problem with the color red on women. Maybe you should just use some Holy Ghost common sense and turn your head when you see a woman dressed in red. (And anyone else struggling with this issue) Sorry for being so blunt but I think this is a bit petty.

[LadyRev]

Funny how those who walk away from the ancient landmarks of our fathers' MOCK

when science proves that the ELDERS were correct after all!!!!


Its only a matter of time until someone proves this "Jesus in my boyfriend music" promotes HOMOSEXUALIY!!!!

Ancient landmarks eh?

How about going back to robes then? Afterall, they are much more modest for both MEN and WOMEN.

Based on modern day advertising tactics (on more than just TV!), pants on men are sexy. Especially jeans. Men in sexy jeans turn alot of women on.

So why don't you preach against jeans, at least, on men, for the same reason you preach against RED on women???

Why don't you go back to preaching robes and solve alot of "modesty" issues for both genders???

You shouldn't be causing women to lust by allowing men to run around in sexy jeans.

Nor should you be allowing men to wear any kind of garment that fits the body snuggly, outlining the male anatomy. A robe would eliminate this problem completely.

:whistle

[Subdued]

I'm wearing a red suit to church this Sunday - seriously. I really am!

After I get dressed I'll ask my husband if he would rather stay home from church. I'll let you know what his answer is. :toofunny


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

:lol

[Rhoni]

You didn't know what sex was at age 15???

I was 18 when the girls at JCM filled me in. They brought me pictures from the hospital records department. I didn't even know what boys looked like underneath their clothes. I was very sheltered. I liked to kiss though:friend

[Pressing-On]

I remember when time back in the deep dark ages of my childhood.

Dad and i were out in the field working on a tractor. Dad was underneath the machine working elbow deep in grease and grime, covered in the dirt that marked him as a farmer.

I was at best as dirty if not more so, having spent the better part of the morning playing in the clods of dirt turned by the plow.

All the sudden I heard him say "OH NO!" Thinking dad was hurt, I ran to where he was to find out what had happened. "Whats the matter daddy!?"

His reply was something along the lines of "Son i have really messed up, Ive forgotten your mothers birthday!"

The long standing tradition was that dad bought mom a pair of high heeled red shoes for her birthday.

So the two of us looking like we had just rolled out from under a tractor parked in the middle of a half plowed field (which is exactly what we were) jumped into the truck and made off to Lake Charles some 50 odd miles away to find the perfect pair of red shoes.

Mom surely thought dad had forgotten that evening when we dragged in from a long day in the pasture. Dad had me slip around to the back door of the trailer we lived in and put that box on their bed.

Eventually mom found the box and was beyond pleased with her boys that we had pulled off such a stunt.

I dont know if red makes men crazy, but thanks for the thread. It brought back a great memory from my childhood.
Awwwww, that is such a sweet and endearing story!!!!!!!!!!!!! :tissue

[Pressing-On]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

:lol
What will he say? I'm so nervous just thinking about it!!!!!! :toofunny

[DividedThigh]

I was 18 when the girls at JCM filled me in. They brought me pictures from the hospital records department. I didn't even know what boys looked like underneath their clothes. I was very sheltered. I liked to kiss though:friend

we heard that, lol, dt

[Subdued]

I was 18 when the girls at JCM filled me in. They brought me pictures from the hospital records department. I didn't even know what boys looked like underneath their clothes. I was very sheltered. I liked to kiss though:friend

WOW!

That's all... just WOW! :o

[Pressing-On]

I was 18 when the girls at JCM filled me in. They brought me pictures from the hospital records department. I didn't even know what boys looked like underneath their clothes. I was very sheltered. I liked to kiss though:friend
Oh, please. Who in the world can "just" kiss? I've never heard of that in my life! :toofunny :doggyrun

[Rhoni]

Awwwww, that is such a sweet and endearing story!!!!!!!!!!!!! :tissue

Reminds me of the Christmas special about the little boy who's mother was dying and he wanted to get her a pair of shoes before she died. Now I am crying again...must be my hormones.

[DividedThigh]

now that is funny press, young pentes kiss for a while anyway, lol

[El Predicador]

Sounds like you are having a problem with the color red on women. Maybe you should just use some Holy Ghost common sense and turn your head when you see a woman dressed in red. (And anyone else struggling with this issue) Sorry for being so blunt but I think this is a bit petty.


And it sounds as though some are attempting to use their passive/aggressive tendancies to make this personal maam.

I merely posted a brand new scientific study and pointed out the old time preachers preached it that way.

By your logic it does not matter what a woman wears?

Once again I am directing comment to your logic, not launching a personal attack like your post appeared to be.

[Rhoni]

Oh, please. Who in the world can "just" kiss? I've never heard of that in my life! :toofunny :doggyrun

At 15, 16, & 17...that is all I did and I rather enjoyed it:friend

[Pressing-On]

Reminds me of the Christmas special about the little boy who's mother was dying and he wanted to get her a pair of shoes before she died. Now I am crying again...must be my hormones.

One of these days you are going to have to stop blaming your actions on your hormones - GIRL! :snapout :toofunny

[Subdued]

This thread is KILLING me!!!!!! :killinme:lol:slaphappy:heeheehee:woot:igotit:D

[Pressing-On]

now that is funny press, young pentes kiss for a while anyway, lol

Ohhhhh, I wasn't raised Pentecostal. :toofunny

[DividedThigh]

me too, lol

[DividedThigh]

Ohhhhh, I wasn't raised Pentecostal. :toofunny

i almost said you should be thankful, i was after 10 years old and i am glad of it, lol

[Rhoni]

One of these days you are going to have to stop blaming your actions on your hormones - GIRL! :snapout :toofunny


When I die:tease

[James Griffin]

WOW This thread is er "interesting."

And yes there were many "innocents" who made up for lost time at JCM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:dance

[Ferd]

Awwwww, that is such a sweet and endearing story!!!!!!!!!!!!! :tissue

just doesnt seem appropreate for this thread does it?

[smurfette]

And it sounds as though some are attempting to use their passive/aggressive tendancies to make this personal maam.

I merely posted a brand new scientific study and pointed out the old time preachers preached it that way.

By your logic it does not matter what a woman wears?

Once again I am directing comment to your logic, not launching a personal attack like your post appeared to be.


Think what you would like to think about my logic. I posted in a previous post that I believed modesty is always in order. I think this "color" thing is a bit petty. For exapmple: what if serial killers were attracted to the color green? Sorry for being rude. I think this is still a silly subject.

[Rhoni]

WOW This thread is er "interesting."

And yes there were many "innocents" who made up for lost time at JCM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:dance

:ursofunny:friend

[Pressing-On]

i almost said you should be thankful, i was after 10 years old and i am glad of it, lol

You know what, DT?! I am really thankful I wasn't raised Pentecostal. This truth is so precious, beautiful, lovely, empowering, etc. - BUT - if you take it for granted - it becomes the ugliest thing you have ever seen or know.

I'm glad I know both sides of what it is like. I'm not trying to lump all Pentecostals together, but a large percentage of them just have NO IDEA how blessed they really are.

[Pressing-On]

just doesnt seem appropreate for this thread does it?
Yes, it was perfect, FERD! The compassion and love of a true man of God!!! Perfect!!!!

[Timmy]

Know what really drives some men wild? Really long hair! :tease

[DividedThigh]

You know what, DT?! I am really thankful I wasn't raised Pentecostal. This truth is so precious, beautiful, lovely, empowering, etc. - BUT - if you take it for granted - it becomes the ugliest thing you have ever seen or know.

I'm glad I know both sides of what it is like. I'm not trying to lump all Pentecostals together, but a large percentage of them just have NO IDEA how blessed they really are.

agreed sis, dt

[El Predicador]

Think what you would like to think about my logic. I posted in a previous post that I believed modesty is always in order. I think this "color" thing is a bit petty. For exapmple: what if serial killers were attracted to the color green? Sorry for being rude. I think this is still a silly subject.


Then I would be wary of any of my friends who gave me a green dress if I were you !!!!


:tease

[Sam]

Careful dude that sounds too much like the voice of experience

:evilglee

guys wear high heels too

[Pressing-On]

When I die:tease

Thought so! :toofunny

[El Predicador]

guys wear high heels too

Another slam against music majors?

:aaa

[Sam]

Please read every post on this thread and tell me where I said that.

Where is your scripture for not tattooing your face?

Some things are common sense.

:friend

are you now trying to say that tattooing of the face is wrong?

[Pressing-On]

Know what really drives some men wild? Really long hair! :tease

:popcorn2

:toofunny

[El Predicador]

are you now trying to say that tattooing of the face is wrong?

In this day and age no doubt some Apostolics would try to claim it is "modest".

It seems the liberals are the true legalists, always looking for loopholes.


JUST WHAT CAN I GET AWAY WITH NOW????

[MissBrattified]

I'm wearing a red suit to church this Sunday - seriously. I really am!

After I get dressed I'll ask my husband if he would rather stay home from church. I'll let you know what his answer is. :toofunny

:ursofunny

[MissBrattified]

At 15, 16, & 17...that is all I did and I rather enjoyed it:friend

Oh...but what happened at 18? :coffee2 :D

[TRFrance]

Please read every post on this thread and tell me where I said that.

Where is your scripture for not tattooing your face?

Some things are common sense.

:friend
So based on your logic then, it's "common sense" for us to know that women should not wear red.

Do you not even realize how preposterous that sounds?

[MissBrattified]

Know what really drives some men wild? Really long hair! :tease

There's a solution for that, too. Pull it back in a tight bun and NEVER, I repeat, NEVER let your hair down. :aaa

Or they could just shave their heads. That would be very unattractive, and of course the goal here is to make women as sexually UNattractive as possible, without which there are a lot of men who will not see the Lord.

[Timmy]

There's a solution for that, too. Pull it back in a tight bun and NEVER, I repeat, NEVER let your hair down. :aaa

Oooooo..... Bun!!! :ursofunny

[Digging4Truth]

guys wear high heels too

Sam...

I am going to start calling you DAD...

Devil's
Advocate
Deluxe


:ursofunny

[Ron]

You know what, DT?! I am really thankful I wasn't raised Pentecostal. This truth is so precious, beautiful, lovely, empowering, etc. - BUT - if you take it for granted - it becomes the ugliest thing you have ever seen or know.

I'm glad I know both sides of what it is like. I'm not trying to lump all Pentecostals together, but a large percentage of them just have NO IDEA how blessed they really are.

Well put, I wasn't raised Pentecostal!
I was a heathen!

I have a pic of what I looked like when I came to the Lord, I will try and find it & post it.

[DividedThigh]

my wife has really long hair, wears it down and gorgeous alot, but i also like the bun too, dt

[Digging4Truth]

Oooooo..... Bun!!! :ursofunny

You're on a roll today Timmy.

:aaa

[Pressing-On]

Oh...but what happened at 18? :coffee2 :D

:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny

[Pressing-On]

Oooooo..... Bun!!! :ursofunny

:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny

Why does that remind me of Lily Tomlin?

[timlan2057]

So this means it's the woman's fault?

This whole "the woman needs to watch what she wears so she doesn't tempt the man" and "it's the woman's fault if the man sins" perpetrated by people like this El Predicator is ridiculous, stupid and downright pitiful.

I'm sure EP's another who, when a woman gets raped says: "Well, she had it coming to her."

It's one of the old dogmas "ole time pentecost" needs to let go of in a hurry if they have any hope at all to be relevant in the 21st century.

If a pentecostal man's salvation is all he claims it is, he should not act on his temptation if he was in a room with the twelve playboy playmate calendar girls for 2008 and they were all stark naked.

[Michael Phelps]

So this means it's the woman's fault?

This whole "the woman needs to watch what she wears so she doesn't tempt the man" and "it's the woman's fault if the man sins" perpetrated by people like this El Predicator is ridiculous, stupid and downright pitiful.

I'm sure EP's another who, when a woman gets raped says: "Well, she had it coming to her."

It's one of the old dogmas "ole time pentecost" needs to let go of in a hurry if they have any hope at all to be relevant in the 21st century.

If a pentecostal man's salvation is all he claims it is, he should not act on his temptation if he was in a room with the twelve playboy playmate calendar girls for 2008 and they were all stark naked.

Ok, now you're pushing it :ursofunny

[mama bear]

So this means it's the woman's fault?

This whole "the woman needs to watch what she wears so she doesn't tempt the man" and "it's the woman's fault if the man sins" perpetrated by people like this El Predicator is ridiculous, stupid and downright pitiful.

I'm sure EP's another who, when a woman gets raped says: "Well, she had it coming to her."

It's one of the old dogmas "ole time pentecost" needs to let go of in a hurry if they have any hope at all to be relevant in the 21st century.

If a pentecostal man's salvation is all he claims it is, he should not act on his temptation if he was in a room with the twelve playboy playmate calendar girls for 2008 and they were all stark naked.



AMEN - you got that right!

[DividedThigh]

Ok, now you're pushing it :ursofunny

rule number one dont go in that room, lol

[El Predicador]

So this means it's the woman's fault?

This whole "the woman needs to watch what she wears so she doesn't tempt the man" and "it's the woman's fault if the man sins" perpetrated by people like this El Predicator is ridiculous, stupid and downright pitiful.

I'm sure EP's another who, when a woman gets raped says: "Well, she had it coming to her."

It's one of the old dogmas "ole time pentecost" needs to let go of in a hurry if they have any hope at all to be relevant in the 21st century.

If a pentecostal man's salvation is all he claims it is, he should not act on his temptation if he was in a room with the twelve playboy playmate calendar girls for 2008 and they were all stark naked.

No one said it's ALL the women's fault.

If a pentecostal man's salvation is all he claims it is, he is not going to be in the room with 12 naked playmates long enough to act on it.

[Ron]

So this means it's the woman's fault?

This whole "the woman needs to watch what she wears so she doesn't tempt the man" and "it's the woman's fault if the man sins" perpetrated by people like this El Predicator is ridiculous, stupid and downright pitiful.

I'm sure EP's another who, when a woman gets raped says: "Well, she had it coming to her."

It's one of the old dogmas "ole time pentecost" needs to let go of in a hurry if they have any hope at all to be relevant in the 21st century.

If a pentecostal man's salvation is all he claims it is, he should not act on his temptation if he was in a room with the twelve playboy playmate calendar girls for 2008 and they were all stark naked.

Tim, with all due respect you are right-in theory.
As a Pastor once said, "flesh is flesh, either sinners or saint's but it is still flesh"

God also warned us his word to not put a stumbling block before others so what we wear does have merit.

[TRFrance]

Sister it is an unfortunate translation.

If you will do a word study scarlet was also a specific word used to denote a TYPE of cloth in Medieval England (King James) as opposed to scarlet the color.

Even Wikipedia will verify that.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scarlet

No sir. What is "unfortunate" is your mangling of the Word of God.

What matters here is not the Medevial English word used, but the original Hebrew word in that verse (Prov 31:21)

The Hebrew word here is shaniy, which refers to the color scarlet or crimson; the word shaniy does not refer to a type of cloth.

These 2 links will quickly verify that:
http://strongsnumbers.com/hebrew/8144.htm
http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8144&t=KJV

I suggest you do some basic word studies on the meaning of words before you speak incorrectly, as you've just done here.

Once again, your argument is shown to have no merit. And your research, such as it is, is shown to be shoddy, to say the least.

[MissBrattified]

So this means it's the woman's fault?

This whole "the woman needs to watch what she wears so she doesn't tempt the man" and "it's the woman's fault if the man sins" perpetrated by people like this El Predicator is ridiculous, stupid and downright pitiful.

I'm sure EP's another who, when a woman gets raped says: "Well, she had it coming to her."

That always makes me want to vomit. It usually comes from men, or mothers of sons who don't want their boys blamed for anything. ("Boys will be boys, so girls better watch their p's and q's" type thinking.)

Kind of like the kids a couple of weeks ago...the 16 (or 17) year old girl who was raped by some football players while other teens tried to get into the room and (presumably) stop what was going on--in the comments under the article on CBSnews, there were more than a few statements like, "What was she doing out at 2:30 a.m., anyway?"

Personally, I'd like to think that if my daughter is out with friends, even at 2 a.m., she's still safe, and anyone who takes advantage of her needs to answer for it.

[El Predicador]

Think what you would like to think about my logic. I posted in a previous post that I believed modesty is always in order. I think this "color" thing is a bit petty. For example: what if serial killers were attracted to the color green? Sorry for being rude. I think this is still a silly subject.

Then I would be wary of any of my friends who gave me a green dress if I were you !!!!


:tease

Come to think of it what size do you wear?



:tease

[Rhoni]

So this means it's the woman's fault?

This whole "the woman needs to watch what she wears so she doesn't tempt the man" and "it's the woman's fault if the man sins" perpetrated by people like this El Predicator is ridiculous, stupid and downright pitiful.

I'm sure EP's another who, when a woman gets raped says: "Well, she had it coming to her."

It's one of the old dogmas "ole time pentecost" needs to let go of in a hurry if they have any hope at all to be relevant in the 21st century.

If a pentecostal man's salvation is all he claims it is, he should not act on his temptation if he was in a room with the twelve playboy playmate calendar girls for 2008 and they were all stark naked.

I heard it preached by a Boot-Camp survivor and I almost got up and walked out of the service. Blamed a 16 year old girl who got raped going to the restroom during church when a man walking by saw the slit in her skirt. The ultimate form of legalism was that preacher had the audacity to blame it on the girl wearing a slit in her floor length skirt.:club

I should have stood up and walked out but I was doing it on the inside.

Blessings, Rhoni

[timlan2057]

No one said it's ALL the women's fault.

If a pentecostal man's salvation is all he claims it is, he is not going to be in the room with 12 naked playmates long enough to act on it.



Quit dodging the issue and trying to pick the example to pieces to save some face.

The example wasn't that the man PURPOSELY put himself in temptation's way any more than he would if, according to you, he began to lust when he just happened to pass a woman in a red dress on a busy downtown street.

Now come on, El Predicator.

I know you're not THAT dense.

But of course you had no other choice to act obtuse because the example was so damning to your little ridiculous mindset that a woman should watch what she wears (even in the realm of what you accept as biblical "holiness") because she might make a man sin.

[tamor]

I'm wearing a red suit to church this Sunday - seriously. I really am!

After I get dressed I'll ask my husband if he would rather stay home from church. I'll let you know what his answer is. :toofunny

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

:lol

What will he say? I'm so nervous just thinking about it!!!!!! :toofunny

:toofunny :toofunny :toofunny

[smurfette]

Come to think of it what size do you wear?



:tease

I find that just plain creepy and weird.

[MissBrattified]

Dear God,

It was the woman who made me sin.

Adam

[DividedThigh]

the bibles says we sin when we are drawn away of our own lust and enticed, if a man or woman sins it is there prob, not someone elses, period,dt

[timlan2057]

Tim, with all due respect you are right-in theory.
As a Pastor once said, "flesh is flesh, either sinners or saint's but it is still flesh"

God also warned us his word to not put a stumbling block before others so what we wear does have merit.

Ron, no one is saying the "stumblingblock" axiom doesn't apply.

But in trying to bring balance and perspective - you are actually following this El Predicator's ridiculous line of reasoning.

We're not talking about a well-built young woman wearing a red micro-mini and flashing her thighs at and giving a seductive smile to a man.

According to this ridiculous mindset - WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF WHAT YOU CONSIDER BIBLICAL HOLINESS (not me, necessarily) - a woman should not wear a red, modestly tailored below-the-knee red dress/suit outfit because it might cause a man to lust.

The ONLY criterion in starting this post and referencing the article was a woman "wearing red."

[El Predicador]

Quit dodging the issue and trying to pick the example to pieces to save some face.

The example wasn't that the man PURPOSELY put himself in temptation's way any more than he would if, according to you, he began to lust when he just happened to pass a woman in a red dress on a busy downtown street.

Now come on, El Predicator.

I know you're not THAT dense.

But of course you had no other choice to act obtuse because the example was so damning to your little ridiculous mindset that a woman should watch what she wears (even in the realm of what you accept as biblical "holiness") because she might make a man sin.

Sir, did you even read the article concerning the scientific study in the first post???

[tstew]

So this means it's the woman's fault?

This whole "the woman needs to watch what she wears so she doesn't tempt the man" and "it's the woman's fault if the man sins" perpetrated by people like this El Predicator is ridiculous, stupid and downright pitiful.

I'm sure EP's another who, when a woman gets raped says: "Well, she had it coming to her."

It's one of the old dogmas "ole time pentecost" needs to let go of in a hurry if they have any hope at all to be relevant in the 21st century.

If a pentecostal man's salvation is all he claims it is, he should not act on his temptation if he was in a room with the twelve playboy playmate calendar girls for 2008 and they were all stark naked.


Ehhh...they're not all that good looking this year.

:ursofunny:aaa

[Sam]

guys wear high heels too

Some guys do.

[tstew]

Sir, did you even read the article concerning the scientific study in the first post???

Well, folks there you have it. Science: the source of all empirical and undisputable evidence. You all need to throw those silly little Bibles away.

[tamor]

Ehhh...they're not all that good looking this year.

:ursofunny:aaa

And just how do YOU know?? :club:club

[DividedThigh]

Ehhh...they're not all that good looking this year.

:ursofunny:aaa

uhhhhh excuse me bro, how would you know that, lol:ursofunny:snapout

[MissBrattified]

Ehhh...they're not all that good looking this year.

:ursofunny:aaa

Shame on thee. :tease

[timlan2057]

Ehhh...they're not all that good looking this year.

:ursofunny:aaa

Not surprising.

The LSU Golden Girls have been down a wee bit on the Hotness Scale the last few years.

[tstew]

And just how do YOU know?? :club:club

I better start adding TIC to my posts. I'm going to get myself in trouble....

[Ron]

Ron, no one is saying the "stumblingblock" axiom doesn't apply.

But in trying to bring balance and perspective - you are actually following this El Predicator's ridiculous line of reasoning.

We're not talking about a well-built young woman wearing a red micro-mini and flashing her thighs at and giving a seductive smile to a man.

According to this ridiculous mindset - WITHIN THE BOUNDS OF WHAT YOU CONSIDER BIBLICAL HOLINESS (not me, necessarily) - a woman should not wear a red, modestly tailored below-the-knee red dress/suit outfit because it might cause a man to lust.

The ONLY criterion in starting this post and referencing the article was a woman "wearing red."

True, the colour red in and of itself isn't a temptation as a sweet 95 year old grandma all decked out in red won't get most men going.

Thanks for the clarification.

[tstew]

Not surprising.

The LSU Golden Girls have been down a wee bit on the Hotness Scale the last few years.

Okay I better get on record: I have not seen the Playboy Calendar. Please do not call my pastor. He is plenty busy on other things right now. :)

[DividedThigh]

Okay I better get on record: I have not seen the Playboy Calendar. Please do not call my pastor. He is plenty busy on other things right now. :)

ok i think you are off the hook, lol:dance

[El Predicador]

Well, folks there you have it. Science: the source of all empirical and undisputable evidence. You all need to throw those silly little Bibles away.

After reading the article, which merely explains what the elders knew all along.

Please point out a single post where I made this a heaven or hell issue.

Seems I am being respectful and attempting dialogue while other are bent on personal attacks.

(The last line is not directed to you Mr Stewart, you have always appeared to be respectful)

[Sam]

I heard it preached by a Boot-Camp survivor and I almost got up and walked out of the service. Blamed a 16 year old girl who got raped going to the restroom during church when a man walking by saw the slit in her skirt. The ultimate form of legalism was that preacher had the audacity to blame it on the girl wearing a slit in her floor length skirt.:club

I should have stood up and walked out but I was doing it on the inside.

Blessings, Rhoni

now when he said that, folks should have booed and hissed and then got up and walked out. but, we don't do that at Pentecostal churches.

The last night I went to an ALJC church, the pastor in his Sunday night sermon said, "The Bible says that a man is supposed to be clean shaven." I said something like, "I'd like to know where that's in the Bible." Either the pastor didn't hear me or he ignored me. My wife grabbed my arm and gave me "that look." Husbands and children know what "that look" is. I didn't say any more. I stayed in my seat. When I walked out after the service I didn't go back again.

[tamor]

I better start adding TIC to my posts. I'm going to get myself in trouble....

Okay I better get on record: I have not seen the Playboy Calendar. Please do not call my pastor. He is plenty busy on other things right now. :)

:toofunny I knew you were joking. You just opened that can of worms too far!! :toofunny

[DividedThigh]

red dresses only go with red shoes silly, dt

[Sam]

True, the colour red in and of itself isn't a temptation as a sweet 95 year old grandma all decked out in red won't get most men going.

Thanks for the clarification.

She might get some of us older guys going.

[Pressing-On]

I better start adding TIC to my posts. I'm going to get myself in trouble....

Didn't you ask me about ordering something from my daughter's boutique?

:toofunny


Oh, right. It was me wondering if you needed some Stillettos and you said you were pretty sure they won't look good on you.

:toofunny

[tstew]

After reading the article, which merely explains what the elders knew all along.

Please point out a single post where I made this a heaven or hell issue.

Seems I am being respectful and attempting dialogue while other are bent on personal attacks.

(The last line is not directed to you Mr Stewart, you have always appeared to be respectful)

Looks can be deceiving :evilglee

J/K: I think it is only reasonable and Christian to be respectful. Personally, I do think that banning red is over the top, and I'm not sure that I could find enough of a Biblical basis to teach this to any of our new or prospective members.

[El Predicador]

True, the colour red in and of itself isn't a temptation as a sweet 95 year old grandma all decked out in red won't get most men going.

Thanks for the clarification.

No but according to the article she will stand a better chance with the 99 year old man than the one in the green dress who is about to be done in by Smurette's serial killer.

:ursofunny

[tstew]

Didn't you ask me about ordering something from my daughter's boutique?

:toofunny


Oh, right. It was me wondering if you needed some Stillettos and you said you were pretty sure they won't look good on you.

:toofunny

EASY...isn't there some rule about not revealing the nature and content of PMs :ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny

[DividedThigh]

this is icky, lol

[Pressing-On]

EASY...isn't there some rule about not revealing the nature and content of PMs :ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny
They would have thought it was on a thread if you hadn't have clarified! :thwak

[Sam]

I don't know about the Playboy calendar but a 2007 Hooters calendar is available at
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_dec2006/2007HootersCalendar.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_dec2006/2007HootersCalendar.htm&h=1804&w=1353&sz=536&hl=en&start=4&um=1&usg=__sdjRyPRp0Cw8JM8KuPt3GwxsiNE=&tbnid=fSxwZJ0OC4iazM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhooters%2Bcalendar%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den %26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

[rgcraig]

:toofunny :toofunny

Seriously, Renda. Do you agree with El Predicador that the "mistress" just wants to control the man? I haven't seen that to be the case in the lives of women I have known.

I would tend to disagree with El P.

However, I do not have many friends that are mistresses, so it's just an opinion - :ursofunny

[Ron]

No but according to the article she will stand a better chance with the 99 year old man than the one in the green dress who is about to be done in by Smurette's serial killer.

:ursofunny

:ursofunny

[tstew]

They would have thought it was on a thread if you hadn't have clarified! :thwak

I was just playing either way. I don't even remember the actual conversation. It sounds like something I could have said in either one. I just have to learn to use the TIC smilie more often :)

[tstew]

I don't know about the Playboy calendar but a 2007 Hooters calendar is available at
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_dec2006/2007HootersCalendar.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_dec2006/2007HootersCalendar.htm&h=1804&w=1353&sz=536&hl=en&start=4&um=1&usg=__sdjRyPRp0Cw8JM8KuPt3GwxsiNE=&tbnid=fSxwZJ0OC4iazM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhooters%2Bcalendar%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den %26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

Sam, I'm too afraid to click that link. I'll have to wait for someone more carnal to verify....(cue Timmy) in 3...2...1... :ursofunny

[Ron]

I was just playing either way. I don't even remember the actual conversation. It sounds like something I could have said in either one. I just have to learn to use the TIC smilie more often :)

tstew, it doesn't matter what you post, PO enjoys that smiley with a big stick:whistle

I should start calling her Bufford Pusser!:club

[tstew]

tstew, it doesn't matter what you post, PO enjoys that smiley with a big stick:whistle

I should start calling her Bufford Pusser!:club

That is true. Can we rename that smilie "Pressing On"?

[Pressing-On]

I was just playing either way. I don't even remember the actual conversation. It sounds like something I could have said in either one. I just have to learn to use the TIC smilie more often :)

Yea, the Smiles help for the paranoid poster/lurker. :D

For the record, Stew was being kind since we are neighbors and wanting to support my daughter's business, in which, I explained that we have nothing for men unless he was interested in Stillettos. He replied, NO, that he was certain they wouldn't look good on him. :thumbsup

[Rhoni]

I would tend to disagree with El P.

However, I do not have many friends that are mistresses, so it's just an opinion - :ursofunny

I have counseled many a mistress and...Mistresses just want to be taken care of without the commitment...don't you know. It isn't about controlling the men but it is about low self-esteem.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Pressing-On]

I would tend to disagree with El P.

However, I do not have many friends that are mistresses, so it's just an opinion - :ursofunny
:toofunny

I am remembering a friend I worked with in Houston that was in love with a married man. She had me drive my car by his house since he wouldn't recognize it. She was so pitiful in love with him. I felt so sorry for her.

[DividedThigh]

well said rhoni, i wont say the rest of what i thought, dt

[James Griffin]

I don't know about the Playboy calendar but a 2007 Hooters calendar is available at
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_dec2006/2007HootersCalendar.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_dec2006/2007HootersCalendar.htm&h=1804&w=1353&sz=536&hl=en&start=4&um=1&usg=__sdjRyPRp0Cw8JM8KuPt3GwxsiNE=&tbnid=fSxwZJ0OC4iazM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhooters%2Bcalendar%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den %26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

WOW Sam that MS Feb has a crazed look I'd stay away from her !!!

[Michael Phelps]

:toofunny

I am remembering a friend I worked with in Houston that was in love with a married man. She had me drive my car by his house since he wouldn't recognize it. She was so pitiful in love with him. I felt so sorry for her.

THAT WAS YOUR CAR??????????:ursofunny:ursofunny

Just kidding...........

[MissBrattified]

I know a man who was told he shouldn't marry the woman he was in love with because she was from a liberal church, so he married a "pastor-approved" pick. But he had an affair with his first love for YEARS, and his wife knew about it. And the "mistress" never married. I felt sorry for all three of them.

It isn't always about control. I guess it could be, but I haven't really wrapped my head around how that definition would fit. I think I agree with Rhoni--it's maybe about self-esteem.

[Pressing-On]

I have counseled many a mistress and...Mistresses just want to be taken care of without the commitment...don't you know. It isn't about controlling the men but it is about low self-esteem.

Blessings, Rhoni

So they fall in love with a married man because they have low self-esteem? I can't think that would be the case in every situation.

The Mistress that is wanting to be taken care of, without commitment, is single? I couldn't see that as being a factor for a married woman.

[rgcraig]

Ehhh...they're not all that good looking this year.

:ursofunny:aaa

Oh dear LORD!!!!! :ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny

[Pressing-On]

THAT WAS YOUR CAR??????????:ursofunny:ursofunny

Just kidding...........

Michael!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thwak Go find something to do!!!! :smack

:toofunny

[Ron]

So they fall in love with a married man because they have low self-esteem? I can't think that would be the case in every situation.

The Mistress that is wanting to be taken care of, without commitment, is single? I couldn't see that as being a factor for a married woman.

Confession time: I had a mistress when my wife and I were just married for a year!:whistle

[Timmy]

Sam, I'm too afraid to click that link. I'll have to wait for someone more carnal to verify....(cue Timmy) in 3...2...1... :ursofunny

Oh man, you know me all too well! :toofunny

[Pressing-On]

Confession time: I had a mistress when my wife and I were just married for a year!:whistle

I am not even going to ask!

[Michael Phelps]

Michael!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :thwak Go find something to do!!!! :smack

:toofunny

Yes maam...........:digging

[Pressing-On]

Yes maam...........:digging

Like you would ever do anything I asked you do to? Whatever!!! :toofunny

[rgcraig]

So they fall in love with a married man because they have low self-esteem? I can't think that would be the case in every situation.

The Mistress that is wanting to be taken care of, without commitment, is single? I couldn't see that as being a factor for a married woman.

I don't agree with that either.

They are a mistress because they are full of lust and wear red all the time! :ursofunny

[Encryptus]

WOW Sam that MS Feb has a crazed look I'd stay away from her !!!

Elder, you really looked at a Hooter's calender???

[Ron]

I am not even going to ask!

Okay if you insist!

My wife only objected when I brought my mistress into the bedroom, then she put her foot down and said, "Out!"



So I reluctantly brought my mistress outside and set up the computer in the living room.

Yes, she calls my computer my mistriss!:tease

True story.

[Sam]

I don't agree with that either.

They are a mistress because they are full of lust and wear red all the time! :ursofunny

including red shoes with high heels

[Pressing-On]

I don't agree with that either.

They are a mistress because they are full of lust and wear red all the time! :ursofunny

:toofunny

Maybe I'm just a simpleton or something. She met a man that she was attracted to, she enjoyed his company, became attached to him and fell in love.

Maybe I've seen too many chick flicks. :toofunny

[rgcraig]

Like you would ever do anything I asked you do to? Whatever!!! :toofunny

Or dig a hole.

[Michael Phelps]

Like you would ever do anything I asked you do to? Whatever!!! :toofunny

I am nothing if not cooperative. I'm the soul of submission!:ursofunny

[Ron]

So they fall in love with a married man because they have low self-esteem? I can't think that would be the case in every situation.

The Mistress that is wanting to be taken care of, without commitment, is single? I couldn't see that as being a factor for a married woman.

One time, I was going out the door at night & my wife said, "honey, where are you going?"

I said, (being mischievous) "I'm going to see my mistress!"

She said, (she being mischievous herself) "make sure she is rich!"

Sheesh, you have to tell wife unit if you are going to get milk!!!!:whistle

[Pressing-On]

Okay if you insist!

My wife only objected when I brought my mistress into the bedroom, then she put her foot down and said, "Out!"



So I reluctantly brought my mistress outside and set up the computer in the living room.

Yes, she calls my computer my mistriss!:tease

True story.
Oh, Lord. I was a little leery to hear you out since you've been a hippy in the past. :toofunny

I stay off the computer, for the most part, when my husband is home. I don't want it landing in the front yard! He isn't above removing the distraction. :toofunny

[Ron]

:toofunny

Maybe I'm just a simpleton or something. She met a man that she was attracted to, she enjoyed his company, became attached to him and fell in love.

Maybe I've seen too many chick flicks. :toofunny

Must resist, must resist, must resist..........


:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny :ursofunny:ursofunny

[Pressing-On]

I am nothing if not cooperative. I'm the soul of submission!:ursofunny
I see lying isn't above your pay grade either! :toofunny

[rgcraig]

:toofunny

Maybe I'm just a simpleton or something. She met a man that she was attracted to, she enjoyed his company, became attached to him and fell in love.

Maybe I've seen too many chick flicks. :toofunny

There are probably many reasons, but low self esteem wouldn't be one that I would think is top of the list.

Finding someone that fulfilled something in your life that was missing from their marriage or relationship is usually a real reason or as you said - an attraction.

[Ron]

Oh, Lord. I was a little leery to hear you out since you've been a hippy in the past. :toofunny

I stay off the computer, for the most part, when my husband is home. I don't want it landing in the front yard! He isn't above removing the distraction. :toofunny

What a word picture!:ursofunny

[Ron]

There are probably many reasons, but low self esteem wouldn't be one that I would think is top of the list.

Finding someone that fulfilled something in your life that was missing from their marriage or relationship is usually a real reason or as you said - an attraction.

Speaking from a man's view it is the "woo, hoo, without the commitment!":whistle

[Michael Phelps]

:toofunny

Maybe I'm just a simpleton or something. She met a man that she was attracted to, she enjoyed his company, became attached to him and fell in love.

Maybe I've seen too many chick flicks. :toofunny

I agree with this, PO.

Not everything is about low self-esteem or dysfunctional thoughts.

[DividedThigh]

i also agree that PO has seen too many chick movies, lol

[Pressing-On]

I agree with this, PO.

Not everything is about low self-esteem or dysfunctional thoughts.
Thank you, Michael. Just pure attractive with no motive than being in a certain place at a certain time - right or wrong - it happens. Nothing really sinister in that.

[Rhoni]

So they fall in love with a married man because they have low self-esteem? I can't think that would be the case in every situation.

The Mistress that is wanting to be taken care of, without commitment, is single? I couldn't see that as being a factor for a married woman.

What's love got to do with it?:tease

[Pressing-On]

There are probably many reasons, but low self esteem wouldn't be one that I would think is top of the list.

Finding someone that fulfilled something in your life that was missing from their marriage or relationship is usually a real reason or as you said - an attraction.
Totally, agree with that, Renda. Seen it happen many times.

[Pressing-On]

What's love got to do with it?:tease

Sometimes, at first, it doesn't! :D

[Rhoni]

I know a man who was told he shouldn't marry the woman he was in love with because she was from a liberal church, so he married a "pastor-approved" pick. But he had an affair with his first love for YEARS, and his wife knew about it. And the "mistress" never married. I felt sorry for all three of them.

It isn't always about control. I guess it could be, but I haven't really wrapped my head around how that definition would fit. I think I agree with Rhoni--it's maybe about self-esteem.

JCM was a lot like that. I knew many couples who broke up to please the controlling VP. He had them matched up with someone else and he used the "God's will" line when in fact it was his will. That is where Pastor's have little to no business going unless their advice is sought out.

Blessings, Rhoni

[rgcraig]

What's love got to do with it?:tease

What's low self-esteem have to do with it? :tease

[Pressing-On]

i also agree that PO has seen too many chick movies, lol

:tissue

:toofunny

I watched, Emma, with Gwyneth Paltrow last night while I was painting. :tissue

Girls, you will love it!!!

[DividedThigh]

whats lust got to do with it, lol

[DividedThigh]

JCM was a lot like that. I knew many couples who broke up to please the controlling VP. He had them matched up with someone else and he used the "God's will" line when in fact it was his will. That is where Pastor's have little to no business going unless their advice is sought out.

Blessings, Rhoni
you mean the fish man

[Pressing-On]

What's love got to do with it?:tease

BTW, have you noticed that we have analyzed many relational situations on this thread and we don't have a degree?!! Just saying.... :tease

[rgcraig]

JCM was a lot like that. I knew many couples who broke up to please the controlling VP. He had them matched up with someone else and he used the "God's will" line when in fact it was his will. That is where Pastor's have little to no business going unless their advice is sought out.

Blessings, Rhoni

Sometimes I think we went to two different JCM's.

[Encryptus]

I don't know about the Playboy calendar but a 2007 Hooters calendar is available at
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_dec2006/2007HootersCalendar.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.joe-ks.com/archives_dec2006/2007HootersCalendar.htm&h=1804&w=1353&sz=536&hl=en&start=4&um=1&usg=__sdjRyPRp0Cw8JM8KuPt3GwxsiNE=&tbnid=fSxwZJ0OC4iazM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=113&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dhooters%2Bcalendar%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den %26client%3Dfirefox-a%26channel%3Ds%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

WOW Sam that MS Feb has a crazed look I'd stay away from her !!!


Elder, you really looked at a Hooter's calender???


Sorry never mind.

Good link Sam.

LOL

[Rhoni]

There are probably many reasons, but low self esteem wouldn't be one that I would think is top of the list.

Finding someone that fulfilled something in your life that was missing from their marriage or relationship is usually a real reason or as you said - an attraction.

Many times single women who feel like they won't ever get married or that no man will have them will settle for the attention of a man even if he appears to be taken. Why are we putting the blame on the woman - I bet many married men take mistresses just to have variety, and because they can, all the while telling the mistress they aren't getting it at home.:whistle

Just my thoughts

[Rhoni]

Sometimes I think we went to two different JCM's.

You weren't one of the steady couples that were affected by it...I can name names and you would know them. We'll talk later.

Blessings, Rhoni