Psychology: Science or Religion? [Archive]

Chan

02-12-2007, 12:21 PM

Worldliness has taken hold of the Church in North America in so many ways - so much so that there is no significant statistical difference between the world and the Church with regard to such things as the percentage of divorces. Worldly philosophies such as evolution and psychology have established strongholds. Consequently, it is not unusual to hear preachers proclaim that the Creation account in Genesis cannot be taken literally and it is not unusual for the Church to hire practitioners of psychology to do what pastors, elders and more mature saints should be doing - and relying on psychological theories to explain human behavior instead of relying on the word of God. Worldliness has taken such a strong hold of the Church today that the vast majority of Christians unquestioningly accept "science" as absolute truth - even though the Bible makes it clear that Jesus is THE truth (and not one truth among many).

So, getting back to psychology, is it science or is it religion? The article linked here contains some interesting information (Psychology - Science or Religion (http://www.rapidnet.com/~jbeard/bdm/Psychology/psych.htm)):

FOUR MYTHS ABOUT PSYCHOLOGY

Among professing Christians, there are four major myths about psychology which have become entrenched in the Church:

The first major myth is common to Christians and non-Christians alike: that psychotherapy (psychological counseling along with its theories and techniques) is a science -- a means of understanding and helping humanity based on empirical evidence gleaned from measurable and consistent data.

The second major myth is that the best kind of counseling utilizes both psychology and the Bible. Psychologists who also claim to be Christians generally claim that they are more qualified to help people understand themselves and change their behavior than are other Christians (including pastors and elders) who are not trained in psychology.

The third major myth is that people who are experiencing mental-emotional behavioral problems are mentally ill. They are supposedly psychologically sick and, therefore, need psychological therapy. The common argument is that the doctor treats the body, the minister treats the spirit, and the psychologist treats the mind and emotions. Ministers, unless they are trained in psychoanalysis and psychotherapy, are then supposedly unqualified to help people who are suffering from serious problems of living.

The fourth major myth is that psychotherapy has a high record of success -- that professional psychological counseling produces greater results than other forms of help, such as self-help or that provided by family, friends, or pastors. Thus, psychological counseling is seen as more effective than Biblical counseling in helping some Christians. This is one of the main reasons why so many professing Christians are training to become psychotherapists.

IS PSYCHOLOGY A SCIENCE?

Men and women of God seek wisdom and knowledge from both the revelation of Scripture and the physical world. Paul contends that everyone is accountable before God because of the evidence that creation gives of His existence (Rom. 1:20).

Scientific study is a valid way of coming to an understanding of God's work, and can be very useful in many walks of life.

True science develops theories based on what is observed. It examines each theory with rigorous tests to see if it describes reality. The scientific method works well in observing and recording physical data and in reaching conclusions which either confirm or nullify a theory.

During the mid-19th century, scholars (philosophers, really) desired to study human nature in the hope of applying the scientific method to observe, record, and treat human behavior. They believed that if people could be studied in a scientific manner, there would be greater accuracy in understanding present behavior, in predicting future behavior, and in altering behavior through scientific intervention.

Psychology, and its active arm of psychotherapy, have indeed adopted the scientific posture. However, from a strictly scientific point of view, they have not been able to meet the requirements of true science.

...

The actual foundations of psychotherapy are not science, but rather various philosophical world views, especially those of determinism, secular humanism, behaviorism, existentialism, and even evolutionism. World-renowned research psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey is very blunt when he says:

"The techniques used by Western psychiatrists are, with few exceptions, on exactly the same scientific plane as the techniques used by witch doctors."

PSYCHOLOGY AS RELIGION

Explanations of why people behave the way they do and how they change have concerned philosophers, theologians, cultists, and occultists throughout the centuries. These explanations form the basis of modern psychology. Yet psychology deals with the very same areas of concern already dealt with in Scripture.

Since God's Word tells us how to live, all ideas about the why's of behavior and the how's of change must be viewed as religious in nature. Whereas the Bible claims divine revelation, psychotherapy claims scientific substantiation. Nevertheless, when it comes to behavior and attitudes, and morals and values, we are dealing with religion -- either the Christian faith or any one of a number of other religions, including secular humanism.

Repudiating the God of the Bible, both Freud and Jung led their followers in the quest for alternative understandings of mankind and alternative solutions to problems of living. They turned inward to their own limited imaginations and viewed their subjects from their own anti-Christian subjectivity.

The faith once delivered to the saints was displaced by a substitute faith disguising itself as medicine or science, but based upon foundations which are in direct contradiction to the Bible.

Psychiatrist Thomas Szasz, in his 1978 book The Myth of Psychotherapy, says, "The basic ingredients of psychotherapy does not always involve repression." He points out that while psychotherapy does not always involve repression, it does always involve religion and rhetoric (conversation). Szasz says very strongly that "the human relations we now call 'psychotherapy,' are, in fact, matters of religion -- and that we mislabel them as 'therapeutic' at great risk to our spiritual well-being." Elsewhere, in referring to psychotherapy as a religion, Szasz says:

"It is not merely a religion that pretends to be a science, it is actually a fake religion that seeks to destroy true religion."

Szasz also says that "psychotherapy is a modern, scientific-sounding name for what used to be called the 'cure of souls.'" One of his primary purposes for writing The Myth of Psychotherapy was:

"... to show how, with the decline of religion and the growth of science in the eighteenth century, the cure of (sinful) souls, which had been an integral part of the Christian religions, was recast as the cure of (sick) minds, and became an integral part of medicine."

The cure of souls, which once was a vital ministry of the Church, has now in this century been displaced by a cure of minds called "psychotherapy." True "Biblical" counseling has waned until presently it is almost nonexistent.

...

PSYCHOLOGY PLUS THE BIBLE

The Church has not escaped the all-pervasive influence of psychotherapy. It has unwittingly and eagerly embraced the pseudoscientisms of psychotherapy and has intimately incorporated this spectre into the very sinew of its life. Not only does the Church include the concepts and teachings of psychotherapists in sermons and seminaries, it steps aside and entrusts the mentally and emotionally halt and lame to the "high altar" of psychotherapy.

Many Church leaders contend that the Church doesn't have the ability to meet the needs of people suffering from depression, anxiety, fear, and other problems of living. They, therefore, trust the paid practitioners of the pseudoscientisms of psychotherapy more than they trust the Word of God and the work of the Holy Spirit.

Because of the confusion between science and pseudoscience, Church leaders have elevated the psychotherapist to a position of authority in the modern Church. Thus, any attack on the amalgamation of psychotherapy and Christianity is considered to be an attack on the Church itself.

Although the Church has almost universally accepted and endorsed the psychological way, there are Christians who have not. Dr. Jay E. Adams says:

"In my opinion, advocating, allowing and practicing psychiatric and psychoanalytical dogmas within the church is every bit as pagan and heretical (and therefore perilous) as propagating the teachings of some of the most bizarre cults. The only vital difference is that the cults are less dangerous because their errors are more identifiable."

Psychotherapy is a most subtle and devious spectre haunting the Church, because it is perceived and received as a scientific salve for the sick soul, rather than for what it truly is: a pseudoscientific substitute system of religious belief.

The early Church faced and ministered to mental-emotional-behavioral problems which were as complex as the ones that exist today. If anything, the conditions of the early Church were more difficult than those we currently face. The early Christians suffered persecution, poverty, and various afflictions which are foreign to most of the twentieth-century Christendom (especially in the West). The catacombs of Rome are a testimony to the extent of the problems faced by the early Church.

FOR FURTHER CONSIDERATION:

http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/psychology_christianity (http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/psychology_christianity)

http://www.psychologydebunked.com/ (http://www.psychologydebunked.com/)

Arphaxad

02-14-2007, 06:39 PM

:wacko :crazy :woot I took psychology and philosophy at the same time in college, boy was my head spinning!

ManOfWord

02-14-2007, 09:23 PM

I have studied the Bible and psychology (to a lesser degree) for over 30 yrs. I have read psychological stuff that, IMO, bordered on New Age philosophies.

I have found that basic psychology has a place in the body of Christ as it relates to understanding personality types, marriage counselling etc. I have not found any descrepencies between biblical principles and basic human psychology. I do not think that Freud and Jung are the definitive people to follow either.

I disagree with myth 2 & 3 and believe that they are true, due to my own personal experiences as a Sr. Pastor for over 20yrs. I do not rely on psychology to help solve people's problem, but it has proved a helpful tool in understanding people's perspectives.

Felicity

02-14-2007, 11:01 PM

Isn't psychology basically the study of human nature? You can come to understand a lot about that simply by observing.

I don't think Solomon studied psychology but he seemed to know an awful lot about what made people tick and why they ticked like they did, and his wisdom came from _______ (fill in the blank). :)

LaGirl

02-15-2007, 12:03 AM

:wacko :crazy :woot I took psychology and philosophy at the same time in college, boy was my head spinning!

I BET!!!

LaGirl

02-15-2007, 12:03 AM

Isn't psychology basically the study of human nature? You can come to understand a lot about that simply by observing.

I don't think Solomon studied psychology but he seemed to know an awful lot about what made people tick and whey they ticked like they did, and his wisdom came from _______ (fill in the blank). :)

you are right. SHO CAN!

Chan

02-15-2007, 09:41 AM

I have studied the Bible and psychology (to a lesser degree) for over 30 yrs. I have read psychological stuff that, IMO, bordered on New Age philosophies.So, why would you defile the temple of God by bringing such falsehoods into the Church?

I have found that basic psychology has a place in the body of Christ as it relates to understanding personality types, marriage counselling etc. I have not found any descrepencies between biblical principles and basic human psychology. I do not think that Freud and Jung are the definitive people to follow either.Worldly philosophies have no place whatsoever in the Church.

I disagree with myth 2 & 3 and believe that they are true, due to my own personal experiences as a Sr. Pastor for over 20yrs. I do not rely on psychology to help solve people's problem, but it has proved a helpful tool in understanding people's perspectives.There is nothing helpful about wicked worldly philosophies. Such philosophies are part of what John referred to as "the world" when he said in his first epistle "love not the world..."

Chan

02-15-2007, 09:44 AM

Isn't psychology basically the study of human nature? You can come to understand a lot about that simply by observing.No, psychology is not just basically the study of human nature. The actual foundations of psychotherapy are not science, but rather various philosophical world views, especially those of determinism, secular humanism, behaviorism, existentialism, and even evolutionism. Thus, psychology is a study of human nature based on ungodly world views. Note what Dr. Jay E. Adams, author of such books as Competent to Counsel, says:

"In my opinion, advocating, allowing and practicing psychiatric and psychoanalytical dogmas within the church is every bit as pagan and heretical (and therefore perilous) as propagating the teachings of some of the most bizarre cults. The only vital difference is that the cults are less dangerous because their errors are more identifiable."

I don't think Solomon studied psychology but he seemed to know an awful lot about what made people tick and why they ticked like they did, and his wisdom came from _______ (fill in the blank). :)But that has nothing whatsoever to do with psychology. Solomon's wisdom came from God. Psychology is a form of worldly so-called "wisdom" and has no place in the Church.

Felicity

02-15-2007, 09:48 AM

The point I was making is that psychology is basically the study of human nature and behavior and why people act like they do.

Solomon had lots of understanding and knowledge in regard to this that didn't come from the study of psychology. His wisdom, knowledge and understanding came basically from a knowledge and understanding of God and from God.

The same understanding is available for us from God if we seek Him and ask Him for His counsel and wisdom and knowledge. :thumbsup

It's fairly simple really. :)

Chan

02-15-2007, 09:52 AM

The point I was making is that psychology is basically the study of human nature and behavior and why people act like they do.I know that was your point but your point is inaccurate because psychology is not mere unbiased study of human behavior, nature, etc., it has its basis in worldly philosophies or world views.

Solomon had lots of understanding and knowledge in regard to this that didn't come from the study of psychology. His wisdom, knowledge and understanding came basically from a knowledge and understanding of God and from God.Yes, and I said that Solomon's wisdom came from God. However, it came from God supernaturally and not as mere innate ability. We agree that it did not come from psychology and, thus, we must make sure to separate what comes from God and what comes from the world.

The same understanding is available for us from God if we seek Him and ask Him for His counsel and wisdom and knowledge. :thumbsup

It's fairly simple really. :)Yes, but not through psychology or other worldly philosophies.

Felicity

02-15-2007, 09:55 AM

I know that was your point but your point is inaccurate because psychology is not mere unbiased study of human behavior, nature, etc., it has its basis in worldly philosophies or world views.I understand that but it's still basically the study of human nature, human behavior ..... why people act like they do.

Yes, and I said that Solomon's wisdom came from God. However, it came from God supernaturally and not as mere innate ability. We agree that it did not come from psychology and, thus, we must make sure to separate what comes from God and what comes from the world.I didn't say it came from mere innate ability. I said it came basically from God!

Yes, but not through psychology or other worldly philosophies. You're just repeating what I said. LOL. :)

:ty

Trouvere

02-15-2007, 10:10 AM

If the gifts are allowed to operate in the church less counseling is needed.
I don't care for personality studies.People come to God and change.They
get healed,they repent etc.More times than any deliverance is needed than
counseling.The problem with people is they want Rome built in a day.They
want instant mashed potatoes rather than the good old fashioned homemade
kind that take time and effort.It takes Jesus to fix a broken heart and save a lost soul.I don't discredit anyones efforts but I would rather skip the psychological approach when dealing with souls.

Felicity

02-15-2007, 10:11 AM

Chan

02-15-2007, 10:19 AM

I understand that but it's still basically the study of human nature, human behavior ..... why people act like they do.But that is the deception of psychology: they want us to believe that it is just "basically the study of human nature, human behavior....why people act like they do" but that really is not the case. Rather, it is the an attempt to put forth worldly philosophies as truth.

I didn't say it came from mere innate ability. I said it came basically from God! No, it didn't come "basically" from God (as if there was some part of it that maybe didn't), it DID come from God. However, there is a difference between God giving someone innate ability (what we might call "talent") and God doing something utterly supernatural as He did in Solomon's case.

You're just repeating what I said. LOL. :)Repeated for emphasis.

Chan

02-15-2007, 10:22 AM

Actually the point I was really trying to make is ........

We don't need to study "psychology" in order to understand human nature and what makes people tick. This knowledge can be learned through experience, observation, the Word of God and the Spirit of God as He shares His wisdom and knowledge with us.

God bless you!Thanks for making that clear. Of course, I would take it even further and say that not only do we not need to study psychology, we should consider that worldly philosophy part of that enemy of God that John called "the world" when he said "love not the world..."

Chan

02-15-2007, 03:22 PM

In another thread, a certain individual was trying to present her worldly philosophy/false religion (psychology) as truth. I provided what I believe are scriptural challenges to what she was saying. Naturally, I was accused of trying to shut the individual's thread down (which I have no desire to do). This post is not about the individual but about the worldly philosophy/false religion of which she is a practitioner. I want to make it clear that I have no animus toward this particular individual - toward her worldly philosophy/false religion, yes but not toward her as a person or, more important, as a sister in Christ. Below is the post in question and my response to it.

Originally Posted by (Name withheld) http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?p=5560#post5560)
Dear Wondering,

Here are some things that may help you to understand the nature of co-dependency:

Co-Dependency Characteristics:
The primary identifying factor of co-dependency is the fact that the person/individual tends to take care of everyone around them in regards to; feelings, actions, words, everything to the neglect of themselves. The person who is co-dependent is a reactive individual who neglects to take action for him/her self.

The co-dependent person is characterized by having a dysfunctional relationship with others as well as themselves. They tend to live through others instead of for him or herself. Many times they are controlling and will blame others instead of taking responsibility for themselves and live in a state of 'Victimization' while trying to fix others. They generally will exhibit intense anxiety when it comes to intimacy issues.

*always having to take care of others at the expense of your own self
*Unable to trust your own feelings
*depression
*isolation
*Workaholism
*perfectionism
*no clear boundaries
*low self-esteem - seeks the approval in others

__________________________________________________ ________

Co-dependency is quite common in those who come from dysfunctional homes, as well as those who's parents were alcoholics and/or addicts.

To be continued...

My response (admittedly, my use of the phrase "wicked worldly philosophy" may be interpreted as harsh; however, all worldly philosophies are wicked simply because they are of the world and not of God):
At some point, though, living for oneself becomes pride and selfishness or, to use the language of that wicked worldly philosophy of psychology, narcissism.

Now, let's look at this list you presented (my responses are in blue):

*always having to take care of others at the expense of your own self - the Bible tells us to do exactly this in the last part of Philippians 2:3, "but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves."

*Unable to trust your own feelings - Jeremiah 17:9 (ASV) tells us, "The heart is deceitful above all things, and it is exceedingly corrupt: who can know it?" When we talk about feelings, we're talking about this thing called "the heart."

*depression - depression is another way for someone to focus on himself and, thus, is the sin of pride.

*isolation - There are two ways of looking at this: 1) the scripture that says "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you" (2 Corinthians 6:17 KJV) and; 2) the scripture that says "Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching" (Hebrews 10:25 KJV).

*Workaholism - A form of bondage and/or idolatry.

*perfectionism - "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect" (Matthew 5:48 KJV).

*no clear boundaries - "That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive" (Ephesians 4:14 KJV). "A double minded man is unstable in all his ways" (James 1:8 KJV).

*low self-esteem - seeks the approval in others - self-esteem is the sin of pride. Psychology tells us "self-esteem" but the Bible tells us "esteem others."

I'm not so sure that this "co-dependency" is really all that different from a person trying to control the people and circumstances around him.

There is no place for worldy philosophies and false religion in the Church. Psychology has deceived people (including Christians) into thinking it is the sole arbiter of things pertaining to the mind and soul of humans - much the way "science" has deceived people into thinking it is the sole arbiter of knowledge and that nothing is true if science cannot prove it. What was once the sin-sick soul "treated" by the Church has become "mental illness" treated with psychotherapy and/or medication.

Psychology is a cult and its practitioners are preaching a false gospel.

ManOfWord

02-15-2007, 04:41 PM

So, why would you defile the temple of God by bringing such falsehoods into the Church?

It is your opinion about "defiling" God's temples. I said that there are things that borderline New Age. I don't adhere to those things. I really don't adhere to psychology, but I have studied enough of it to see its benefits and pit falls.

Worldly philosophies have no place whatsoever in the Church.

I agree. We may disagree as to what those are.

There is nothing helpful about wicked worldly philosophies. Such philosophies are part of what John referred to as "the world" when he said in his first epistle "love not the world..."

I agree, which is why I won't subscribe to the wicked, worldly philosophies. I can take the meat the throw away the bones. Everyone does. So do you. You are well versed in church history and other areas which are not found in the Bible. Yet, they have something to teach us and are not contrary to scripture.

Chan

02-16-2007, 10:54 AM

It is your opinion about "defiling" God's temples. I said that there are things that borderline New Age. I don't adhere to those things. I really don't adhere to psychology, but I have studied enough of it to see its benefits and pit falls.But that's just it, there is nothing in psychology - or any worldly philosophy - that can ever be of benefit to the Church. Wordly philosophies are part of what is meant by the world being one of our enemies.

I agree. We may disagree as to what those are. A worldly philosophy is any philosophy that is derived not from God's word but, instead, from mere human ideas. Think of it as that which Paul referred to as worldly wisdom.

I agree, which is why I won't subscribe to the wicked, worldly philosophies. I can take the meat the throw away the bones. Everyone does. So do you. You are well versed in church history and other areas which are not found in the Bible. Yet, they have something to teach us and are not contrary to scripture.All worldly philosophies are wicked simply because they are of the world. History is not a philosophy, it is a mere regurgitation of past events. There is nothing that any worldly philosophy can ever teach the people of God.

ManOfWord

02-16-2007, 11:48 PM

But that's just it, there is nothing in psychology - or any worldly philosophy - that can ever be of benefit to the Church. Wordly philosophies are part of what is meant by the world being one of our enemies.

That is your opinion and I disagree with it.

A worldly philosophy is any philosophy that is derived not from God's word but, instead, from mere human ideas. Think of it as that which Paul referred to as worldly wisdom.

That is your opinion and I disagree with it.

All worldly philosophies are wicked simply because they are of the world. History is not a philosophy, it is a mere regurgitation of past events. There is nothing that any worldly philosophy can ever teach the people of God.

Once again, that is your opinion and I disagree with it.

You thinking reminds of the Greeks who thought that EVERYTHING that was not of the Spirit was evil.

Allan

02-17-2007, 03:01 AM

ManOfWord

02-17-2007, 03:11 PM

LaGirl

02-17-2007, 09:23 PM

Chan

02-20-2007, 09:23 AM

Psychology in any particular facet is not a horrid thing. Understanding human or animal behavior will cause no harm; however, the use of said understanding, or the applied perception thereof, could very well be. As long one remains within Biblical boundaries concerning any given understanding of psychology, what harm could come of it?There can be no real understanding of behavior when that "understanding" is based on worldly philosophies.

Again, the actual foundations of psychotherapy are not science, but rather various philosophical world views, especially those of determinism, secular humanism, behaviorism, existentialism, and even evolutionism. Thus, psychology is a study of human nature based on ungodly world views. Note what Dr. Jay E. Adams, author of such books as Competent to Counsel, says:

"In my opinion, advocating, allowing and practicing psychiatric and psychoanalytical dogmas within the church is every bit as pagan and heretical (and therefore perilous) as propagating the teachings of some of the most bizarre cults. The only vital difference is that the cults are less dangerous because their errors are more identifiable."

Obviously, I agree with Dr. Adams on this point.

Chan

02-20-2007, 09:29 AM

If you want to get technical. Psychology is the scientific study of mental processes and behaviour. Psychologists observe and record how people and other animals relate to one another and to the environment. They look for patterns that will help them understand and predict behaviour, and they use scientific methods to test their ideas. Through such studies, psychologists have learned much that can help people fulfill their potential as human beings and increase understanding between individuals, groups, nations, and cultures.

Psychology is a broad field that explores a variety of questions about thoughts, feelings, and actions. Psychologists ask such questions as: "How do we see, hear, smell, taste, and feel? What enables us to learn, think, and remember, and why do we forget? What activities distinguish human beings from other animals? What abilities are we born with, and which must we learn? How much does the mind affect the body, and how does the body affect the mind? For example, can we change our heart rate or temperature just by thinking about doing so? What can our dreams tell us about our needs, wishes, and desires? Why do we like the people we like? Why are some people bashful and others not shy at all? What causes violence? What is mental illness, and how can it be cured?"

The research findings of psychologists have greatly increased our understanding of why people behave as they do. For example, psychologists have discovered much about how personality develops and how to promote healthy development. They have some knowledge of how to help people change bad habits and how to help students learn. They understand some of the conditions that can make workers more productive. A great deal remains to be discovered. Nevertheless, insights provided by psychology can help people function better as individuals, friends, family members, and workers.

Sorry I got carried away. I have a psychology degree. So I sorta know this area! lol :heeheehee

So, the only way anyone can know about the evils of worldly philosophies is by getting a degree in that worldly philosophy? I wonder what worldly philosophies Paul had a degree in when he said under the authority of the Holy Spirit, "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness" (1 Cor. 3:19).

FOUR MYTHS ABOUT PSYCHOLOGY

Among professing Christians, there are four major myths about psychology which have become entrenched in the Church:

The first major myth is common to Christians and non-Christians alike: that psychotherapy (psychological counseling along with its theories and techniques) is a science -- a means of understanding and helping humanity based on empirical evidence gleaned from measurable and consistent data.

The second major myth is that the best kind of counseling utilizes both psychology and the Bible. Psychologists who also claim to be Christians generally claim that they are more qualified to help people understand themselves and change their behavior than are other Christians (including pastors and elders) who are not trained in psychology.

The third major myth is that people who are experiencing mental-emotional behavioral problems are mentally ill. They are supposedly psychologically sick and, therefore, need psychological therapy. The common argument is that the doctor treats the body, the minister treats the spirit, and the psychologist treats the mind and emotions. Ministers, unless they are trained in psychoanalysis and psychotherapy, are then supposedly unqualified to help people who are suffering from serious problems of living.

The fourth major myth is that psychotherapy has a high record of success -- that professional psychological counseling produces greater results than other forms of help, such as self-help or that provided by family, friends, or pastors. Thus, psychological counseling is seen as more effective than Biblical counseling in helping some Christians. This is one of the main reasons why so many professing Christians are training to become psychotherapists.

IS PSYCHOLOGY A SCIENCE?

Men and women of God seek wisdom and knowledge from both the revelation of Scripture and the physical world. Paul contends that everyone is accountable before God because of the evidence that creation gives of His existence (Rom. 1:20).

Scientific study is a valid way of coming to an understanding of God's work, and can be very useful in many walks of life.

True science develops theories based on what is observed. It examines each theory with rigorous tests to see if it describes reality. The scientific method works well in observing and recording physical data and in reaching conclusions which either confirm or nullify a theory.

During the mid-19th century, scholars (philosophers, really) desired to study human nature in the hope of applying the scientific method to observe, record, and treat human behavior. They believed that if people could be studied in a scientific manner, there would be greater accuracy in understanding present behavior, in predicting future behavior, and in altering behavior through scientific intervention.

Psychology, and its active arm of psychotherapy, have indeed adopted the scientific posture. However, from a strictly scientific point of view, they have not been able to meet the requirements of true science.

...

The actual foundations of psychotherapy are not science, but rather various philosophical world views, especially those of determinism, secular humanism, behaviorism, existentialism, and even evolutionism. World-renowned research psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey is very blunt when he says:

"The techniques used by Western psychiatrists are, with few exceptions, on exactly the same scientific plane as the techniques used by witch doctors."

Chan

02-20-2007, 09:33 AM

It doesn't matter whether harm comes of it or not. Chan seems to have an aversion to even a remote possibility that it might, maybe, could help someone in some way. At least that is the way it seems to me.My aversion to it is that it is a wordly philosophy and, as such, it has no place in the Church.

Chan

02-20-2007, 09:35 AM

You thinking reminds of the Greeks who thought that EVERYTHING that was not of the Spirit was evil.Any philosophy (a form of "wisdom") that is not of God is of the world and is, therefore, evil.

LaGirl

02-21-2007, 11:24 PM

why do you think psychology is worldy?

LaGirl

02-21-2007, 11:26 PM

So, the only way anyone can know about the evils of worldly philosophies is by getting a degree in that worldly philosophy? I wonder what worldly philosophies Paul had a degree in when he said under the authority of the Holy Spirit, "For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness" (1 Cor. 3:19).

FOUR MYTHS ABOUT PSYCHOLOGY

Among professing Christians, there are four major myths about psychology which have become entrenched in the Church:

The first major myth is common to Christians and non-Christians alike: that psychotherapy (psychological counseling along with its theories and techniques) is a science -- a means of understanding and helping humanity based on empirical evidence gleaned from measurable and consistent data.

The second major myth is that the best kind of counseling utilizes both psychology and the Bible. Psychologists who also claim to be Christians generally claim that they are more qualified to help people understand themselves and change their behavior than are other Christians (including pastors and elders) who are not trained in psychology.
The third major myth is that people who are experiencing mental-emotional behavioral problems are mentally ill. They are supposedly psychologically sick and, therefore, need psychological therapy. The common argument is that the doctor treats the body, the minister treats the spirit, and the psychologist treats the mind and emotions. Ministers, unless they are trained in psychoanalysis and psychotherapy, are then supposedly unqualified to help people who are suffering from serious problems of living.

The fourth major myth is that psychotherapy has a high record of success -- that professional psychological counseling produces greater results than other forms of help, such as self-help or that provided by family, friends, or pastors. Thus, psychological counseling is seen as more effective than Biblical counseling in helping some Christians. This is one of the main reasons why so many professing Christians are training to become psychotherapists.

IS PSYCHOLOGY A SCIENCE?

Men and women of God seek wisdom and knowledge from both the revelation of Scripture and the physical world. Paul contends that everyone is accountable before God because of the evidence that creation gives of His existence (Rom. 1:20).

Scientific study is a valid way of coming to an understanding of God's work, and can be very useful in many walks of life.

True science develops theories based on what is observed. It examines each theory with rigorous tests to see if it describes reality. The scientific method works well in observing and recording physical data and in reaching conclusions which either confirm or nullify a theory.

During the mid-19th century, scholars (philosophers, really) desired to study human nature in the hope of applying the scientific method to observe, record, and treat human behavior. They believed that if people could be studied in a scientific manner, there would be greater accuracy in understanding present behavior, in predicting future behavior, and in altering behavior through scientific intervention.

Psychology, and its active arm of psychotherapy, have indeed adopted the scientific posture. However, from a strictly scientific point of view, they have not been able to meet the requirements of true science.

...

The actual foundations of psychotherapy are not science, but rather various philosophical world views, especially those of determinism, secular humanism, behaviorism, existentialism, and even evolutionism. World-renowned research psychiatrist E. Fuller Torrey is very blunt when he says:

"The techniques used by Western psychiatrists are, with few exceptions, on exactly the same scientific plane as the techniques used by witch doctors."

i dont know who you have been talking to, but i know of NO CHRISTIAN PSYCHOLOGIST that thinks this way!

where did you get these myths from?

LaGirl

02-21-2007, 11:27 PM

My aversion to it is that it is a wordly philosophy and, as such, it has no place in the Church.

does your pastor do any counsiling?

ReformedDave

02-22-2007, 07:54 AM

does your pastor do any counsiling?

Counseling and psychology are 2 vastly different things. They start with 2 completely different axioms.

Chan

02-22-2007, 09:02 AM

why do you think psychology is worldy?
Because it is not based in the truths of God's word.

Chan

02-22-2007, 09:08 AM

i dont know who you have been talking to, but i know of NO CHRISTIAN PSYCHOLOGIST that thinks this way!

where did you get these myths from?Our own Rhoni (among others) has suggested (in another forum) that (to quote what you highlighted from my post) "the best kind of counseling utilizes both psychology and the Bible." and has suggested that she and those in her field (again quoting the section of my post you highlighted) "are more qualified to help people understand themselves and change their behavior than are other Christians (including pastors and elders) who are not trained in psychology."

By the way, just because you don't know of any Christian psychologist that thinks this way does not negate it, particularly since I doubt you know every Christian psychologist or even the majority of Christian psychologists. Then, of course, there are those who are not psychologists but who are psychotherapists.

Chan

02-22-2007, 09:11 AM

does your pastor do any counsiling?Your question is not relevant: there is no such thing as "counsiling." There is, however, such a thing as "counseling." Are you suggesting that all the "counselors" mentioned in the Bible were psychologists or psychiatrists? Do you think that the prophet, in referring to Jesus as the Counselor, meant that Jesus would become a psychiatrist or psychologist?

ReformedDave

02-22-2007, 09:23 AM

Your question is not relevant: there is no such thing as "counsiling." There is, however, such a thing as "counseling." Are you suggesting that all the "counselors" mentioned in the Bible were psychologists or psychiatrists? Do you think that the prophet, in referring to Jesus as the Counselor, meant that Jesus would become a psychiatrist or psychologist?

So many questions are answered DIRECTLY by Scripture and if not directly it is answered by applied principles. Trouble is that we have to do our homework and study for some answers....we don't want to do that.

Trouvere

02-22-2007, 09:25 AM

There is counseling ministry available to all saints not just pastors for ministry if you feel called in this area you can be trained.You can check it out at
www.awpministries.org

BTW Brother Chan they also welcome men to the seminars.Its not just for women.
I think you would approve of the training and sources used.

sherr34

02-22-2007, 10:09 AM

I personally think that the church as a whole needs to have some form of understanding Psychology. God made each one of us different. I just found out not to long ago that I have a Medical Condition that is very hard to detect at times. And my medical condition is Genetic, but it can also come from other things that happen to us. I hope Rhoni sees this Thred.

Chan

02-22-2007, 10:23 AM

So many questions are answered DIRECTLY by Scripture and if not directly it is answered by applied principles. Trouble is that we have to do our homework and study for some answers....we don't want to do that.Heaven forbid that we should actually STUDY the word of God and let God's Spirit actually lead us into all truth!

What you said is exactly the problem: we don't want to look to the word of God ourselves. We want others to do the work for us. We want others to tell us why we do the things we do or feel the things we feel. We want answers that don't require us to take responsibility. We want to be made to feel good about ourselves in all our circumstances. We don't want the light of God's word shining into the deepest recesses of our hearts.

"Men loved darkness rather than light because their deeds were evil."

Chan

02-22-2007, 10:24 AM

sherr34

02-22-2007, 10:39 AM

Chan,
You can have your opinion I will have mine. The Lord made the Mind and we need people that can understand it. I know you would blast my statement that is why I will not mention what I have. I would help the Pastors in the World to help understand people more if they had some kind of course taken in Psychology. What I have is Genetic and is a medical condition but people would blast me if I said what I have. So many people would think that I am weak but I have a very strong faith in God. I used to sing in the church choir teach sunday school and do other things, but since my medical condition I have not been able to do that. Do I look different no I just have a medical condition that has to be treated with Medicine and Therapy. And I need lots of patience from people and kindness and support.

Chan

02-22-2007, 10:53 AM

Chan,
You can have your opinion I will have mine. The Lord made the Mind and we need people that can understand it. Understand it, yes; but understand according to the word of God and not according to the theories of some wicked worldly philosophy like psychology.

ManOfWord

02-22-2007, 11:35 AM

My aversion to it is that it is a wordly philosophy and, as such, it has no place in the Church.

Not even if it helps people to become less worldly and more godly?

RevDWW

02-22-2007, 11:38 AM

Not even if it helps people to become less worldly and more godly?

If'n it does good, it can't be bad, cause every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father of lights.........

Maybe a little mental help would be in order for most of us..........:killinme

PS. MOW where you been? Haven't seen you around for a few days.

ManOfWord

02-22-2007, 11:40 AM

Any philosophy (a form of "wisdom") that is not of God is of the world and is, therefore, evil.

I would revise your statement to say that any philosophy that contradicts the word of God is evil. And where any psychology or psychiatry contradicts God's word, it should be avoided and disregarded.

Lu. 9:50 "But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side."

Chan

02-22-2007, 11:41 AM

Not even if it helps people to become less worldly and more godly?There is nothing that is of the world that can ever help anyone become less worldly - I'm really surprised that you would even suggest such a thing.

Chan

02-22-2007, 11:43 AM

I would revise your statement to say that any philosophy that contradicts the word of God is evil. And where any psychology or psychiatry contradicts God's word, it should be avoided and disregarded.

Lu. 9:50 "But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side."
Just by being of the world they contradict the word of God. Worldly philosophies are part of that which the Bible refers to as "the world" in such passages as "love not the world" and, as such, they are enemies of God.

Chan

02-22-2007, 11:44 AM

RevDWW

02-22-2007, 11:45 AM

There is nothing that is of the world that can ever help anyone become less worldly - I'm really surprised that you would even suggest such a thing.

A cross, nails and a tomb can!

Chan

02-22-2007, 11:49 AM

A cross, nails and a tomb can!No, a cross in itself is meaningless. Nails in themselves are meaningless. Tombs in themselves are meaningless. It is only that Jesus - God's only begotten Son - was nailed to a cross and, after He died upon that cross, was laid in a borrowed tomb until God raised Him from the dead.

ManOfWord

02-22-2007, 11:53 AM

If'n it does good, it can't be bad, cause every good and perfect gift comes down from the Father of lights.........

Maybe a little mental help would be in order for most of us..........:killinme

PS. MOW where you been? Haven't seen you around for a few days.

Been busy with "pastor stuff," meetings and such. You know, working with people. :D

There is nothing that is of the world that can ever help anyone become less worldly - I'm really surprised that you would even suggest such a thing.

What I am suggesting is that something that may not seem to come from God's word but doesn't contradict God's, which may even make it in harmony with God's word, can indeed help people.

Just by being of the world they contradict the word of God. Worldly philosophies are part of that which the Bible refers to as "the world" in such passages as "love not the world" and, as such, they are enemies of God.

If it is not contradicting God's word, can we so easily label it "worldly" and not of God?

For instance, the study of personality types may not be an exact "science" but it is fairly "right on target" and does quite a bit to help people understand why they have difficulties with different people and understand themselves as well. This does not take away from God's word which states how we are to treat each other, regardless of personality types.

A good understanding helps us all deal with the "idiots" who surround us. Oh, BTW, we ALL are an "idiot" in someone else's eyes.

Chan

02-22-2007, 11:59 AM

What I am suggesting is that something that may not seem to come from God's word but doesn't contradict God's, which may even make it in harmony with God's word, can indeed help people.Whether it contradicts God's word or not is irrelevant; it's whether it is from God or from the world - if it is from the world, it is from God's enemy.

If it is not contradicting God's word, can we so easily label it "worldly" and not of God?Everything that is of the world is "worldly." It isn't about whether it contradict's God's word, it's about the origin of it. Where the origin is of the world, it is not of God and is, therefore, an enemy of God.

For instance, the study of personality types may not be an exact "science" but it is fairly "right on target" and does quite a bit to help people understand why they have difficulties with different people and understand themselves as well. This does not take away from God's word which states how we are to treat each other, regardless of personality types.
The very notion of "personality types" is based in worldly wisdom and, thus, is not of God. Such things have no place in the Church.

A good understanding helps us all deal with the "idiots" who surround us. Oh, BTW, we ALL are an "idiot" in someone else's eyes.Any "understanding" (wisdom) that is not based solely in God's word is not of God and, thus, is not real understanding.

What do you have against idiots that you feel the need to insult them by saying we are all idiots in someone's eyes? :)

ManOfWord

02-22-2007, 12:11 PM

Whether it contradicts God's word or not is irrelevant; it's whether it is from God or from the world - if it is from the world, it is from God's enemy.

I guess if you knew the source of someone's opinions whether they were indeed inspired by truth, you would have the ability to make a judgement, but since you aren't God and don't have ability to rely on omiscience, you're just guessing.

Everything that is of the world is "worldly." It isn't about whether it contradict's God's word, it's about the origin of it. Where the origin is of the world, it is not of God and is, therefore, an enemy of God.

Again, if you knew it's source, you might be able to say that.

The very notion of "personality types" is based in worldly wisdom and, thus, is not of God. Such things have no place in the Church.

That is your opinion, and when you lead a group of people or a team, you have every right to refrain from using this type of teaching. As for me, I will use any tool that is not contrary to God's word or principles to accomplish His purposes. For me, I have seen too much godly fruit come from the proper use of it even as it relates to spiritual gifting.

Any "understanding" (wisdom) that is not based solely in God's word is not of God and, thus, is not real understanding.

So if it doesn't cite chapter and verse, it's not real understanding?

What do you have against idiots that you feel the need to insult them by saying we are all idiots in someone's eyes? :)

Idiocy is not of God, is a choice, and therefore has no place in His kingdom!

:D

Chan

02-22-2007, 02:30 PM

I guess if you knew the source of someone's opinions whether they were indeed inspired by truth, you would have the ability to make a judgement, but since you aren't God and don't have ability to rely on omiscience, you're just guessing.Nothing that is of the world is inspired by truth.

Again, if you knew it's source, you might be able to say that.As I said, everything that is of the world is "worldly." It isn't about whether it contradict's God's word, it's about the origin of it. Where the origin is of the world, it is not of God and is, therefore, an enemy of God.

That is your opinion, and when you lead a group of people or a team, you have every right to refrain from using this type of teaching. As for me, I will use any tool that is not contrary to God's word or principles to accomplish His purposes. For me, I have seen too much godly fruit come from the proper use of it even as it relates to spiritual gifting. You make yourself an enemy of God by using worldly wisdom.

So if it doesn't cite chapter and verse, it's not real understanding?
A typically stupid remark! You and I both know that "based solely on God's word" does not mean "cite chapter and verse."

Idiocy is not of God, is a choice, and therefore has no place in His kingdom! Is idiocy a choice? Ask those who are idiots (i.e., people who have mild mental retardation) if they chose to be that way.

LaGirl

02-22-2007, 02:31 PM

Counseling and psychology are 2 vastly different things. They start with 2 completely different axioms.

actually they arent that different at all.

Chan

02-22-2007, 02:32 PM

actually they arent that different at all.Practitioners of that wicked worldly philosophy called "psychology" do engage in counseling or, as it is often called, "psychotherapy" but the counseling itself is not psychology.

LaGirl

02-22-2007, 02:33 PM

Our own Rhoni (among others) has suggested (in another forum) that (to quote what you highlighted from my post) "the best kind of counseling utilizes both psychology and the Bible." and has suggested that she and those in her field (again quoting the section of my post you highlighted) "are more qualified to help people understand themselves and change their behavior than are other Christians (including pastors and elders) who are not trained in psychology."

By the way, just because you don't know of any Christian psychologist that thinks this way does not negate it, particularly since I doubt you know every Christian psychologist or even the majority of Christian psychologists. Then, of course, there are those who are not psychologists but who are psychotherapists.

no i do not know most Christian psychologist. the ones I do know do not feel that way. you have some that are FULL of themselves.

LaGirl

02-22-2007, 02:36 PM

Your question is not relevant: there is no such thing as "counsiling." There is, however, such a thing as "counseling." Are you suggesting that all the "counselors" mentioned in the Bible were psychologists or psychiatrists? Do you think that the prophet, in referring to Jesus as the Counselor, meant that Jesus would become a psychiatrist or psychologist?

EXCUSE THE TYPO!

if you pastor does any type of counseling, i bet he uses psychology. he may not KNOW he is using it, but i bet he does.

LaGirl

02-22-2007, 02:37 PM

No, we don't need to have some understanding of that wicked worldly philosophy called "psychology." We need a thorough understanding of God and His word.

i see this is endless. psychology is wicked and worldy to you. go figure.......

Chan

02-22-2007, 02:39 PM

EXCUSE THE TYPO!

if you pastor does any type of counseling, i bet he uses psychology. he may not KNOW he is using it, but i bet he does.Well, since I'm in between pastors right now (my former pastor resigned and we haven't brought in a new one yet)...

If a pastor is using psychology in his counseling, he is using a wicked worldly philosophy (actually, all worldly philosophies are wicked; so, try not to make anything out of my use of the word "wicked") and, thus, is committing treason against God.

Chan

02-22-2007, 02:40 PM

i see this is endless. psychology is wicked and worldy to you. go figure.......Psychology is a worldly philosophy, yes. It is wicked simply because it is worldly.

The actual foundations of psychotherapy are not science, but rather various philosophical world views, especially those of determinism, secular humanism, behaviorism, existentialism, and even evolutionism. This is what makes psychology "worldly."

I cannot overstate the dangers of Christians relying on worldly wisdom to guide their lives. So-called "Christian psychologists" and other practitioners of psychology who claim to be Christian deceive the saints by trying to make the saints think that we can combine worldly philosophies with the truth of God's word. In so doing, they're essentially trying to join Christ to a harlot.

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness." - 1 Corinthians 3:19 -

"...what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel?" - 2 Corinthians 6:14-15 -

LaGirl

02-22-2007, 02:44 PM

Psychology is a worldly philosophy, yes. It is wicked simply because it is worldly.

to you it is worldly. that is your opinion, simly because it is.

LaGirl

02-22-2007, 02:45 PM

Psychology is a worldly philosophy, yes. It is wicked simply because it is worldly.

The actual foundations of psychotherapy are not science, but rather various philosophical world views, especially those of determinism, secular humanism, behaviorism, existentialism, and even evolutionism. This is what makes psychology "worldly."

ha ha ha ha.......OKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY

LaGirl

02-22-2007, 02:47 PM

Well, since I'm in between pastors right now (my former pastor resigned and we haven't brought in a new one yet)...

If a pastor is using psychology in his counseling, he is using a wicked worldly philosophy (actually, all worldly philosophies are wicked; so, try not to make anything out of my use of the word "wicked") and, thus, is committing treason against God.

if he is doing any form of counseling, i bet he is using psychology. like i said, he may not know he is...but he is. And by the way....it isnt a bad thing if he does use it.

ReformedDave

02-22-2007, 02:53 PM

ha ha ha ha.......OKAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYYYY

You must not understand(or probably care to) the origin of psychology. Chan is correct. The 'scientific' basis for it is in serious question.

ReformedDave

02-22-2007, 02:57 PM

if he is doing any form of counseling, i bet he is using psychology. like i said, he may not know he is...but he is. And by the way....it isnt a bad thing if he does use it.

Biblical counseling is not psychology. Check out the writings of men like Jay Adams. A lady in my church is a former psychiatrist and left the field to practice Biblical counseling.

www.ibcd.org

Chan

02-22-2007, 03:16 PM

if he is doing any form of counseling, i bet he is using psychology. like i said, he may not know he is...but he is. And by the way....it isnt a bad thing if he does use it.But it is a bad thing. It's a bad thing because psychology is a worldly philosophy. There is nothing Christian about psychology and there never will be. There is no place for any worldly philosophy - whether psychology or gnosticism or taoism or the thoughts of various philosophers such as Plato, Nietzche, Ayn Rand, Bertrand Russell, etc. - in the Church.

Psychology is a subtle and widespread leaven in the Church. It has permeated the entire loaf and is stealthily starving the sheep. It promises far more than it can deliver and what it does deliver is not the food that nourishes. Yet multitudes of professing Christians view psychology with respect and awe.

Psychoanalysis was invented by Sigmund Freud (1856-1939). Though he has been dead for many years, the deadly poison of his bizarre theories has infected nearly every system of psychological counseling. Moreover, Freudian concepts and terms have so permeated our society that they are generally treated as facts about human nature.

For instance, numerous people refer to the id, ego, and superego as if these entities truly exist, as if they are well-defined compartments of the personality. They do not realize that Freudian concepts and terms were concocted in Freud’s own mind. But, that’s the way most psychological systems are formed. They are an attempt to define and explain the inner workings of all persons, but the psychological theorist ends up defining and explaining himself according to his own subjectivity.

That such a system for understanding mankind is flawed should be evident from the ever-increasing number of psychological theories that often contradict each other. Moreover, for the Christian, any such system should be seen as flawed because of the deceitfulness of the heart ("The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" Jeremiah 17:9). Because of the noetic effects of the fall, man’s view of himself will be flawed. Thus each person who creates a psychological theory to explain the human condition will have at best a flawed view of himself. But, when people attempt to explain human nature in a universal manner, they fail even more miserably unless they are guided by the Holy Spirit and find their understanding in Scripture.

Freud did not do that. In fact, Freud was adamantly opposed to Christianity. Freud taught that religious doctrines are all illusions and that religion is "the universal obsessional neurosis of humanity."

Psychotherapy, from its very beginning, created doubt about Christianity. Freud effectively eroded confidence in Christianity and established negative ideas concerning Christianity that prevail today. He negatively influenced the faith and affected the attitudes of many people concerning the role of the church in healing troubled souls.

Numerous psychoanalytic myths devised by Freud are imbedded in our culture. Many people believe them as if they are facts. The following statements are Freudian myths:

1. The id, ego, and superego are actual parts of the human psyche.
2. A person’s unconscious drives behavior more than his conscious mind chooses behavior.
3. Dreams are keys to understanding the unconscious and thus the person.
More myths:
4. Present behavior is determined by unresolved conflicts from childhood.
5. Many people are in denial because they have repressed unpleasant memories into the unconscious.
6. Parents are to blame for most people’s problems.
7. People need insight into their past to make significant changes in thoughts, attitudes and actions.
8. Children must successfully pass through their "psychosexual stages" of development or they will suffer from neurosis later on.
9. If I am to experience significant change, I must remember and re-experience painful incidents in my past.
10. The first five years of life determine what a person will be like when he grows up.
11. Everything that has ever happened to me is located in my unconscious mind.
12. People use unconscious defense mechanisms to cope with life.

Many of these Freudian myths permeate the thinking of numerous Christians and "Christian psychologists."

We are tremendously complex beings, but psychological explanations about the inner workings of the soul are merely speculation. The only accurate source of information about the heart, soul, mind, will, and emotions is the Bible. Not only is the Bible accurate; the Lord Himself knows and understands exactly what lies hidden beneath the surface of every person. He knows and He brings cleansing to those inner parts that we may never understand. David prayed:

"Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: and see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting" (Psalm 139:23-24).

Some books you might want to read:

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/ccmpccbk_online.html

http://www.psychologydebunked.com/

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/ctmbk_online.html

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/ECPbk_online.html

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/jdgbk_online.html

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/4tempbk_online.html

http://www.psychoheresy-aware.org/12stepsbk_online.html

ReformedDave

02-22-2007, 03:45 PM

sherr34

02-22-2007, 03:56 PM

Rhoni

02-22-2007, 04:29 PM

I thought I'd peak in...*quietly slipping out*

Trouvere

02-22-2007, 04:40 PM

Trouvere

02-22-2007, 04:42 PM

sherr34

02-22-2007, 05:04 PM

I know about the psychiatrist because I have to see one. I just didnt feel right about saying it.

ManOfWord

02-22-2007, 10:22 PM

[QUOTE=Chan;14557]

A typically stupid remark! You and I both know that "based solely on God's word" does not mean "cite chapter and verse."

Actually, no more stupid than most of your remarks on this subject. You seem to always set yourself up as a final judge and jury regarding these issues.

In my opinion, it is your pride concerning these issues that is an affront to the wisdom of God. But that's just my opinion and could be way off base.

Chan

02-23-2007, 09:47 AM

You know, it's not just us wide-eyed 'scriptualist' that believe in the fallacy of psychology. There are some secular sources as well. Even if you don't believe at least consider the possibility that this is just bad science.

www.szasz.com (http://www.szasz.com) As indicated in the original post, there is some question as to whether it can be considered science at all. It may be a religion.

Chan

02-23-2007, 09:54 AM

Chan,
I have a question for you. What if someone in you family was diagnosed with Bipolar would you look down them because the have to have medication to help make them stable. Bipolar is a Medical condition and a physical condition just like Diabetes, high blood pressure. Would you cut them down because they have to go to a Specialist to get the correct medication and help that they need to live a normal life. I would hope that you would try to understand where they are comming from.
I do know that people with this medical condition need to be talked to a certain way because if they are not,the person with BP will probably get very upset and do things they will regret later.
The reason why I know about BP is because I have it. And what do I do with it. I am apostolic, Holy Ghost filled and baptized in Jesus Name. I pray that God would heal me but if not I use it as a tool to reach others to the Lord.
There is no reason to "look down on" anyone - ever!

Bipolar disorder is not a medical condition. Nor is depression or anxiety or "intermittent explosive disorder" or "oppositional defiant disorder" or many of the other so-called "mental illnesses" psychology has created.

The Situation
http://www.psychologydebunked.com/_themes/boldstri/abstrbu1.gif80% of all Americans have received some form of psychological services at some point in their lives.
http://www.psychologydebunked.com/_themes/boldstri/abstrbu1.gifEach year in the U.S., 15% of adults and 21% of children see mental health professionals.
http://www.psychologydebunked.com/_themes/boldstri/abstrbu1.gifAt least 25 million Americans take Prozac for their depression.
http://www.psychologydebunked.com/_themes/boldstri/abstrbu1.gif10 million children in America take at least one psychiatric drug.
http://www.psychologydebunked.com/_themes/boldstri/abstrbu1.gif40% of Americans (75 million adults) belong to at least one of more than 3 million support groups.

Did You Know...

Mental disorders are NOT medical/physical conditions like cancer or diabetes? Every mental disorder is merely a list of observable behaviors given a label and voted into existence by the APA Board.
No one can objectively prove you have a mental disorder? Even the APA President admits that no lab test exists to prove the existence of depression, ADHD, bipolar, and every other mental disorder--no brain scan, no blood test, nothing.
There is no reason to take a pill for a mental disorder, like you would for true medical/physical conditions? The chemical-imbalance-in-the-brain theory has never been proven to cause mental disorders, despite popular belief and drug company marketing. See the News page. (http://www.psychologydebunked.com/news.htm)
Psychiatric drugs CAUSE chemical imbalances in the brain by disrupting normal brain chemicals? Long-term use can cause permanent brain and organ damage.
The FDA now admits antidepressants and ADHD drugs can CAUSE violent and suicidal behavior in children and adults? It is well-documented that most school shooters and baby killers over the last two decades were on psychiatric drugs. See the News page. (http://www.psychologydebunked.com/news.htm)
Mental health screening, labeling and drugging of children is in almost every state in America? School screening programs like TeenScreen label normal children with mental disorders, leading to dangerous psychiatric drugging.
Over time, more people improve without psychotherapy than with it?
Every major psychological theory is anti-Christian at its core?

SOURCE (http://www.psychologydebunked.com/thesituation.htm)

Chan

02-23-2007, 10:01 AM

Actually, no more stupid than most of your remarks on this subject. You seem to always set yourself up as a final judge and jury regarding these issues.Yes, well, Jesus did say to judge righteous judgement.

In my opinion, it is your pride concerning these issues that is an affront to the wisdom of God. But that's just my opinion and could be way off base.Well, you're certainly capable of inaccurate perceptions but I don't have to accept your perceptions as fact. You accuse me of pride "concerning these issues" but don't bother to state why. Is it pride to warn of the evils of that wicked worldly philosophy called "psychology"? Is it pride to insist that there is no place for worldly philosophies (including psychology) in the Church? Is it pride to reject this wicked world's acceptance of psychology as absolute truth? Or are you accusing me of pride because I won't allow for letting even just a little bit of your wicked worldly philosophies in the Church?

Chan

02-23-2007, 10:04 AM

Brother Chan did you miss my post to you?I suspect I did. I looked at the website. I'm at least somewhat familiar with Sister Doty's book Gay Conversations and with Nello Pozzobon's ex-gay ministry.

Trouvere

02-23-2007, 11:40 AM

I suspect I did. I looked at the website. I'm at least somewhat familiar with Sister Doty's book Gay Conversations and with Nello Pozzobon's ex-gay ministry.

Brother I don't know much about Nello but I have met and fellowshipped with Siter Doty at conferences.She is up front and teaches truth.Also there are other ministers including Rock Church that are involved in Soteric counseling I believe its called.

Chan

02-23-2007, 12:20 PM

Brother I don't know much about Nello but I have met and fellowshipped with Siter Doty at conferences.She is up front and teaches truth.Also there are other ministers including Rock Church that are involved in Soteric counseling I believe its called.Whether "soteric" or "nouthetic," it still tries to bring bits of psychology into the Church.

sherr34

02-23-2007, 12:58 PM

ManOfWord

02-23-2007, 01:19 PM

Yes, well, Jesus did say to judge righteous judgement.

Well, you're certainly capable of inaccurate perceptions but I don't have to accept your perceptions as fact. You accuse me of pride "concerning these issues" but don't bother to state why. Is it pride to warn of the evils of that wicked worldly philosophy called "psychology"? Is it pride to insist that there is no place for worldly philosophies (including psychology) in the Church? Is it pride to reject this wicked world's acceptance of psychology as absolute truth? Or are you accusing me of pride because I won't allow for letting even just a little bit of your wicked worldly philosophies in the Church?

It's very simple. It is pride when you paint with such a broad brush as the term "paychology" is and use the pointed words that you do when placing the broad "sticker" on all those you level them against.

The broader perspective is that anything that contrary to the Word of God or the principles therein is wrong and false.

The truth is that there are many writings that are not quoted from scripture that are not contrary to scripture, and many which are quite in harmony with scripture whether they be in the realm of marriage, finances or relationships or something else. You seem to be saying, in effect, if it's not "king james" it's not biblical.

Once again, the following scripture applies.

Lu. 9:50 "But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side."

Chan

02-23-2007, 02:13 PM

I will quietly leave this tread. I think people need to read the book Why am I still depressed. Bipolar is a MEDICAL CONDITION. It is a chemical imbalance in the brain and it has to be treated with medication.There are no tests that can be done to show that there is a chemical imbalance in your brain and that it is causing you to cycle between emotional extremes.

Stop looking to wicked worldly philosophies for your answers and start looking to God and His word.

Chan

02-23-2007, 02:22 PM

It's very simple. It is pride when you paint with such a broad brush as the term "paychology" is and use the pointed words that you do when placing the broad "sticker" on all those you level them against.I don't think I've ever used the term "paychology." I have, however, used the term "psychology." What are the "pointed words" you think I'm using? Is it "pointed" to call something that is not of God and is of the world "wicked" and/or "worldly"?

The broader perspective is that anything that contrary to the Word of God or the principles therein is wrong and false.Yes, and your point is what?

The truth is that there are many writings that are not quoted from scripture that are not contrary to scripture, and many which are quite in harmony with scripture whether they be in the realm of marriage, finances or relationships or something else. You seem to be saying, in effect, if it's not "king james" it's not biblical. Boy, talk about broad brushstrokes! I've been talking about worldly PHILOSOPHIES and one philosophy in particular: psychology. Where you come up with all this nonsense about marriage, finances, etc. I don't know. Try sticking to the subject instead of doing the very thing you accuse me of doing! If you're going to accuse me of saying things, get it right: if it's based on worldly philosophies or principles, it is not biblical and I really don't care whether it's KJV or some other formal equivalence translation.

Once again, the following scripture applies.

Lu. 9:50 "But Jesus said to him, "Do not forbid him, for he who is not against us is on our side."Your use of this passage in this way is evil! What you're essentially saying is that "Well, it doesn't directly contradict a specific passage of scripture, so that means it must be in harmony with scripture and, thus, it's okay for us to rely on it."

sherr34

02-23-2007, 03:52 PM

Chan,
Whatever!! Chemical imbalances are real. I personally think you need to get your head examined and learn a few things. What would you do if you where diagnosed with Bipolar.

sherr34

02-23-2007, 04:02 PM

ReformedDave

02-23-2007, 05:08 PM

MENTAL ILLNESS AS BRAIN DISEASE:
A BRIEF HISTORY LESSON

by

Thomas S. Szasz, M.D.

A 1999 White House Conference on Mental Health concluded: "Research in the last decade proves that mental illnesses are diagnosable disorders of the brain."

President William Clinton was more specific: "Mental illness can be accurately diagnosed, successfully treated, just as physical illness." Persons who reject the view that mental illnesses are physical diseases are dismissed by today's opinion-makers as intellectual troglodytes, on a par with "flat earthers."

That the claim that "mental illnesses are diagnosable disorders of the brain" is a lie ought to be evident to anyone who thinks for himself. Here I want to show that the claim that "research in the last decade proves [this]" is also a lie, one more in a very long list in the history of psychiatry. The contention that mental illness is brain disease is as old as psychiatry itself: it is an integral part of the grand lie that psychiatry is a branch of medicine and healing, when in fact it is a branch of the law and social control. Hannah Arendt was right when she observed: "There are no limits to the possibilities of nonsense and capricious notions that can be decked out as the last word in science."

The idea that mental illness is a bodily disease dates back to the premodern medical conception of disease as a "humoral imbalance," comically prefiguring the modern, supposedly scientific conception of it as "chemical imbalance." In the United States, the idea of mental illness as humoral imbalance was famously espoused by Benjamin Rush (1746-1813), the founding father American psychiatry. Rush did not discover that certain behaviors are diseases; he decreed that they are: "Lying," he declared, "is a corporeal disease." In a letter to his friend, John Adams, he wrote: "The subjects [mental diseases] have hitherto been enveloped in mystery. I have endeavored to bring them down to the level of all other diseases of the human body, and to show that the mind and the body are moved by the same causes and subject to the same laws."

In the nineteenth century, the scientific concept of disease as lesion replaced the Galenic concept of disease as humoral imbalance. Now, physicians postulated that mental diseases are diseases of the brain. From about 1850 until past World War I, German (more precisely, German-speaking) psychiatry ruled the field. The very term psychiatry (Psychiatrie) was a German invention, coined by Johann Christian Reil (1759-1813) in 1808. Reil, not an alienist (psychiatrist), was one of the outstanding medical scientists and physicians of his age. He was a friend and physician of Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. In addition to coining the term "psychiatry," he also coined the term "noninjurious torture," to describe the methods of frightening mental patients that he considered effective and legitimate "treatments."

It is important to keep in mind that the German asylum system was created, in 1805, by the autocratic Prussian state: specifically, by Karl August von Hardenberg (1759-1822), a Prussian statesman. Hardenberg declared, "The state must concern itself with all institutions for those with damaged minds, both for the betterment of the unfortunates and the advancement of science. In this important and difficult field of medicine only unrelenting efforts will enable us to carve out advances for the good of suffering mankind. Perfection can be achieved only in such institutions."

Writing in 1917, at the height of World War I, Emil Kraepelin (1856-1926) -- creator of the first system of psychiatric classification, today widely considered the father of modern "scientific" psychiatry -- offered these revealing remarks about Hardenberg's achievement: "The great war in which we are now engaged has compelled us to recognize the fact that science could forge for us a host of effective weapons for use against a hostile world. Should it be otherwise if we are fighting an internal enemy seeking to destroy the very fabric of our existence?"

Kraepelin's remarks make clear that he regarded psychiatry as an arm of the state, similar to the military forces, whose duty is to protect the fatherland from "an internal enemy" that, like a hostile army, seeks to destroy it. The evil genius of psychiatry lay, and continues to lie, in its ability to convince itself, the legal system, and the public that, in matters defined as psychiatric, there is no conflict between the legitimate interests of the individual and the legitimate interests of the political class in charge of the state.

Of course, the German psychiatric pioneers had to answer the question, "What is mental illness?" Answer it, they did. Wilhelm Griesinger (1817-1868), considered one of the founders of German psychiatry -- and also of the famed Zurich insane asylum, the Burghölzli -- declared: "Psychological diseases are diseases of the brain. ... Insanity is merely a symptom complex of various anomalous states of the brain."

Theodor Meynert (1833-1892) -- a German-born Viennese neuropsychiatrist and one of Freud's teachers -- began his textbook, Psychiatry (1884), with this statement: "The reader will find no other definition of 'Psychiatry' in this book but the one given on the title page: Clinical Treatise on Diseases of the Forebrain. The historical term for psychiatry, i.e., 'treatment of the soul,' implies more than we can accomplish, and transcends the bounds of accurate scientific investigation."

In a review of Swedish psychiatry in the nineteenth century, historian of science Roger Qvarsell states: "In the 1860s, the debate among psychiatrists about the real nature of mental disease was over ... Almost all medical scientists and medical authorities were at this time convinced that mental diseases were of the same nature as somatic disorders." Plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.

Infringement of Freedom

What inferences did and do doctors draw from their concepts of mental illness as brain disease? First, as Carl Wernicke (1848-1905), a prominent nineteenth-century German neuropsychiatrist observed, "The medical treatment of [mental] patients began with the infringement of their personal freedom." In addition, it began with "benevolent tortures," such as frightening them by throwing them into a pit of snakes, the origin of the term "snake pit" for insane asylum. More specifically, the humoral imbalance theory led Rush to employ "bleeding, purging, low diet, and the tranquilizing chair. "The tranquilizing chair was a chair-like contraption for confining the patient and rotating him until he became dizzy or lost consciousness. This was supposed to rebalance the circulation in the brain. It was but a small step from the nineteenth-century's tranquilizing chair to the twentieth century's tranquilizing drug, supposed to rebalance the chemical imbalance in the patient's brain.

Psychiatric practice today requires that doctors and patients ignore evidence and be ignorant of history. There was no evidence for a humoral imbalance causing illness, but the doctrine prevailed for two thousand years. There is no evidence for a chemical imbalance causing mental illness, but that does not impair the doctrine's scientific standing or popularity. Neither the American Psychiatric Association nor American presidents remind people of the caveat of the great nineteenth-century English neurologist, John Hughlings Jackson (1835-1911): "Our concern as medical men is with the body. If there be such a thing as disease of the mind, we can do nothing for it."

Copyright 2006, by The Foundation for Economic Education

sherr34

02-23-2007, 05:50 PM

Bipolar disorder, also known as manic-depressive illness, is a brain disorder that causes unusual shifts in a person's mood, energy, and ability to function. Different from the normal ups and downs that everyone goes through, the symptoms of bipolar disorder are severe. They can result in damaged relationships, poor job or school performance, and even suicide. But there is good news: bipolar disorder can be treated, and people with this illness can lead full and productive lives.

About 5.7 million American adults or about 2.6 percent of the population age 18 and older in any given year,1 have bipolar disorder. Bipolar disorder typically develops in late adolescence or early adulthood. However, some people have their first symptoms during childhood, and some develop them late in life. It is often not recognized as an illness, and people may suffer for years before it is properly diagnosed and treated. Like diabetes or heart disease, bipolar disorder is a long-term illness that must be carefully managed throughout a person's life.

"Manic-depression distorts moods and thoughts, incites dreadful behaviors, destroys the basis of rational thought, and too often erodes the desire and will to live. It is an illness that is biological in its origins, yet one that feels psychological in the experience of it; an illness that is unique in conferring advantage and pleasure, yet one that brings in its wake almost unendurable suffering and, not infrequently, suicide."

"I am fortunate that I have not died from my illness, fortunate in having received the best medical care available, and fortunate in having the friends, colleagues, and family that I do."

Kay Redfield Jamison, Ph.D., An Unquiet Mind, 1995, p. 6.
(Reprinted with permission from Alfred A. Knopf, a division of Random House, Inc.)

ReformedDave

02-23-2007, 05:57 PM

sherr34

02-23-2007, 06:26 PM

What Are the Symptoms of Bipolar Disorder?
Bipolar disorder causes dramatic mood swings—from overly "high" and/or irritable to sad and hopeless, and then back again, often with periods of normal mood in between. Severe changes in energy and behavior go along with these changes in mood. The periods of highs and lows are called episodes of mania and depression.

Signs and symptoms of mania (or a manic episode) include:
Increased energy, activity, and restlessness
Excessively "high," overly good, euphoric mood
Extreme irritability
Racing thoughts and talking very fast, jumping from one idea to another
Distractibility, can't concentrate well
Little sleep needed
Unrealistic beliefs in one's abilities and powers
Poor judgment
Spending sprees
A lasting period of behavior that is different from usual
Increased sexual drive
Abuse of drugs, particularly cocaine, alcohol, and sleeping medications
Provocative, intrusive, or aggressive behavior
Denial that anything is wrong
A manic episode is diagnosed if elevated mood occurs with three or more of the other symptoms most of the day, nearly every day, for 1 week or longer. If the mood is irritable, four additional symptoms must be present.

Signs and symptoms of depression (or a depressive episode) include:
Lasting sad, anxious, or empty mood
Feelings of hopelessness or pessimism
Feelings of guilt, worthlessness, or helplessness
Loss of interest or pleasure in activities once enjoyed, including sex
Decreased energy, a feeling of fatigue or of being "slowed down"
Difficulty concentrating, remembering, making decisions
Restlessness or irritability
Sleeping too much, or can't sleep
Change in appetite and/or unintended weight loss or gain
Chronic pain or other persistent bodily symptoms that are not caused by physical illness or injury
Thoughts of death or suicide, or suicide attempts
A depressive episode is diagnosed if five or more of these symptoms last most of the day, nearly every day, for a period of 2 weeks or longer.

A mild to moderate level of mania is called hypomania. Hypomania may feel good to the person who experiences it and may even be associated with good functioning and enhanced productivity. Thus even when family and friends learn to recognize the mood swings as possible bipolar disorder, the person may deny that anything is wrong. Without proper treatment, however, hypomania can become severe mania in some people or can switch into depression.

Sometimes, severe episodes of mania or depression include symptoms of psychosis (or psychotic symptoms). Common psychotic symptoms are hallucinations (hearing, seeing, or otherwise sensing the presence of things not actually there) and delusions (false, strongly held beliefs not influenced by logical reasoning or explained by a person's usual cultural concepts). Psychotic symptoms in bipolar disorder tend to reflect the extreme mood state at the time. For example, delusions of grandiosity, such as believing one is the President or has special powers or wealth, may occur during mania; delusions of guilt or worthlessness, such as believing that one is ruined and penniless or has committed some terrible crime, may appear during depression. People with bipolar disorder who have these symptoms are sometimes incorrectly diagnosed as having schizophrenia, another severe mental illness.

It may be helpful to think of the various mood states in bipolar disorder as a spectrum or continuous range. At one end is severe depression, above which is moderate depression and then mild low mood, which many people call "the blues" when it is short-lived but is termed "dysthymia" when it is chronic. Then there is normal or balanced mood, above which comes hypomania (mild to moderate mania), and then severe mania.

sherr34

02-23-2007, 06:29 PM

Scientists are learning about the possible causes of bipolar disorder through several kinds of studies. Most scientists now agree that there is no single cause for bipolar disorder—rather, many factors act together to produce the illness.

Because bipolar disorder tends to run in families, researchers have been searching for specific genes—the microscopic "building blocks" of DNA inside all cells that influence how the body and mind work and grow—passed down through generations that may increase a person's chance of developing the illness. But genes are not the whole story. Studies of identical twins, who share all the same genes, indicate that both genes and other factors play a role in bipolar disorder. If bipolar disorder were caused entirely by genes, then the identical twin of someone with the illness would always develop the illness, and research has shown that this is not the case. But if one twin has bipolar disorder, the other twin is more likely to develop the illness than is another sibling.6

In addition, findings from gene research suggest that bipolar disorder, like other mental illnesses, does not occur because of a single gene.7 It appears likely that many different genes act together, and in combination with other factors of the person or the person's environment, to cause bipolar disorder. Finding these genes, each of which contributes only a small amount toward the vulnerability to bipolar disorder, has been extremely difficult. But scientists expect that the advanced research tools now being used will lead to these discoveries and to new and better treatments for bipolar disorder.

Brain-imaging studies are helping scientists learn what goes wrong in the brain to produce bipolar disorder and other mental illnesses.8,9 New brain-imaging techniques allow researchers to take pictures of the living brain at work, to examine its structure and activity, without the need for surgery or other invasive procedures. These techniques include magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), positron emission tomography (PET), and functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI). There is evidence from imaging studies that the brains of people with bipolar disorder may differ from the brains of healthy individuals. As the differences are more clearly identified and defined through research, scientists will gain a better understanding of the underlying causes of the illness, and eventually may be able to predict which types of treatment will work most effectively.

sherr34

02-23-2007, 06:31 PM

How Is Bipolar Disorder Treated?
Most people with bipolar disorder—even those with the most severe forms—can achieve substantial stabilization of their mood swings and related symptoms with proper treatment.10,11,12 Because bipolar disorder is a recurrent illness, long-term preventive treatment is strongly recommended and almost always indicated. A strategy that combines medication and psychosocial treatment is optimal for managing the disorder over time.

In most cases, bipolar disorder is much better controlled if treatment is continuous than if it is on and off. But even when there are no breaks in treatment, mood changes can occur and should be reported immediately to your doctor. The doctor may be able to prevent a full-blown episode by making adjustments to the treatment plan. Working closely with the doctor and communicating openly about treatment concerns and options can make a difference in treatment effectiveness.

In addition, keeping a chart of daily mood symptoms, treatments, sleep patterns, and life events may help people with bipolar disorder and their families to better understand the illness. This chart also can help the doctor track and treat the illness most effectively.

Medications
Medications for bipolar disorder are prescribed by psychiatrists—medical doctors (M.D.) with expertise in the diagnosis and treatment of mental disorders. While primary care physicians who do not specialize in psychiatry also may prescribe these medications, it is recommended that people with bipolar disorder see a psychiatrist for treatment.

Medications known as "mood stabilizers" usually are prescribed to help control bipolar disorder.10 Several different types of mood stabilizers are available. In general, people with bipolar disorder continue treatment with mood stabilizers for extended periods of time (years). Other medications are added when necessary, typically for shorter periods, to treat episodes of mania or depression that break through despite the mood stabilizer.

Lithium, the first mood-stabilizing medication approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) for treatment of mania, is often very effective in controlling mania and preventing the recurrence of both manic and depressive episodes.
Anticonvulsant medications, such as valproate (Depakote®) or carbamazepine (Tegretol®), also can have mood-stabilizing effects and may be especially useful for difficult-to-treat bipolar episodes. Valproate was FDA-approved in 1995 for treatment of mania.
Newer anticonvulsant medications, including lamotrigine (Lamictal®), gabapentin (Neurontin®), and topiramate (Topamax®), are being studied to determine how well they work in stabilizing mood cycles.
Anticonvulsant medications may be combined with lithium, or with each other, for maximum effect.
Children and adolescents with bipolar disorder generally are treated with lithium, but valproate and carbamazepine also are used. Researchers are evaluating the safety and efficacy of these and other psychotropic medications in children and adolescents. There is some evidence that valproate may lead to adverse hormone changes in teenage girls and polycystic ovary syndrome in women who began taking the medication before age 20.13 Therefore, young female patients taking valproate should be monitored carefully by a physician.
Women with bipolar disorder who wish to conceive, or who become pregnant, face special challenges due to the possible harmful effects of existing mood stabilizing medications on the developing fetus and the nursing infant.14 Therefore, the benefits and risks of all available treatment options should be discussed with a clinician skilled in this area. New treatments with reduced risks during pregnancy and lactation are under study.
Treatment of Bipolar Depression
Research has shown that people with bipolar disorder are at risk of switching into mania or hypomania, or of developing rapid cycling, during treatment with antidepressant medication.15 Therefore, "mood-stabilizing" medications generally are required, alone or in combination with antidepressants, to protect people with bipolar disorder from this switch. Lithium and valproate are the most commonly used mood-stabilizing drugs today. However, research studies continue to evaluate the potential mood-stabilizing effects of newer medications.

Atypical antipsychotic medications, including clozapine (Clozaril®), olanzapine (Zyprexa®), risperidone (Risperdal®), quetiapine (Seroquel®), and ziprasidone (Geodon®), are being studied as possible treatments for bipolar disorder. Evidence suggests clozapine may be helpful as a mood stabilizer for people who do not respond to lithium or anticonvulsants.16 Other research has supported the efficacy of olanzapine for acute mania, an indication that has recently received FDA approval.17 Olanzapine may also help relieve psychotic depression.18
If insomnia is a problem, a high-potency benzodiazepine medication such as clonazepam (Klonopin®) or lorazepam (Ativan®) may be helpful to promote better sleep. However, since these medications may be habit-forming, they are best prescribed on a short-term basis. Other types of sedative medications, such as zolpidem (Ambien®), are sometimes used instead.
Changes to the treatment plan may be needed at various times during the course of bipolar disorder to manage the illness most effectively. A psychiatrist should guide any changes in type or dose of medication.
Be sure to tell the psychiatrist about all other prescription drugs, over-the-counter medications, or natural supplements you may be taking. This is important because certain medications and supplements taken together may cause adverse reactions.
To reduce the chance of relapse or of developing a new episode, it is important to stick to the treatment plan. Talk to your doctor if you have any concerns about the medications.

sherr34

02-23-2007, 06:32 PM

Thyroid Function
People with bipolar disorder often have abnormal thyroid gland function.4 Because too much or too little thyroid hormone alone can lead to mood and energy changes, it is important that thyroid levels are carefully monitored by a physician.

People with rapid cycling tend to have co-occurring thyroid problems and may need to take thyroid pills in addition to their medications for bipolar disorder. Also, lithium treatment may cause low thyroid levels in some people, resulting in the need for thyroid supplementation.

Medication Side Effects
Before starting a new medication for bipolar disorder, always talk with your psychiatrist and/or pharmacist about possible side effects. Depending on the medication, side effects may include weight gain, nausea, tremor, reduced sexual drive or performance, anxiety, hair loss, movement problems, or dry mouth. Be sure to tell the doctor about all side effects you notice during treatment. He or she may be able to change the dose or offer a different medication to relieve them. Your medication should not be changed or stopped without the psychiatrist's guidance.

Psychosocial Treatments
As an addition to medication, psychosocial treatments—including certain forms of psychotherapy (or "talk" therapy)—are helpful in providing support, education, and guidance to people with bipolar disorder and their families. Studies have shown that psychosocial interventions can lead to increased mood stability, fewer hospitalizations, and improved functioning in several areas.12 A licensed psychologist, social worker, or counselor typically provides these therapies and often works together with the psychiatrist to monitor a patient's progress. The number, frequency, and type of sessions should be based on the treatment needs of each person.

Psychosocial interventions commonly used for bipolar disorder are cognitive behavioral therapy, psychoeducation, family therapy, and a newer technique, interpersonal and social rhythm therapy. NIMH researchers are studying how these interventions compare to one another when added to medication treatment for bipolar disorder.

Cognitive behavioral therapy helps people with bipolar disorder learn to change inappropriate or negative thought patterns and behaviors associated with the illness.
Psychoeducation involves teaching people with bipolar disorder about the illness and its treatment, and how to recognize signs of relapse so that early intervention can be sought before a full-blown illness episode occurs. Psychoeducation also may be helpful for family members.
Family therapy uses strategies to reduce the level of distress within the family that may either contribute to or result from the ill person's symptoms.
Interpersonal and social rhythm therapy helps people with bipolar disorder both to improve interpersonal relationships and to regularize their daily routines. Regular daily routines and sleep schedules may help protect against manic episodes.
As with medication, it is important to follow the treatment plan for any psychosocial intervention to achieve the greatest benefit.
Other Treatments
In situations where medication, psychosocial treatment, and the combination of these interventions prove ineffective, or work too slowly to relieve severe symptoms such as psychosis or suicidality, electroconvulsive therapy (ECT) may be considered. ECT may also be considered to treat acute episodes when medical conditions, including pregnancy, make the use of medications too risky. ECT is a highly effective treatment for severe depressive, manic, and/or mixed episodes. The possibility of long-lasting memory problems, although a concern in the past, has been significantly reduced with modern ECT techniques. However, the potential benefits and risks of ECT, and of available alternative interventions, should be carefully reviewed and discussed with individuals considering this treatment and, where appropriate, with family or friends.19
Herbal or natural supplements, such as St. John's wort (Hypericum perforatum), have not been well studied, and little is known about their effects on bipolar disorder. Because the FDA does not regulate their production, different brands of these supplements can contain different amounts of active ingredient. Before trying herbal or natural supplements, it is important to discuss them with your doctor. There is evidence that St. John's wort can reduce the effectiveness of certain medications.20 In addition, like prescription antidepressants, St. John's wort may cause a switch into mania in some individuals with bipolar disorder, especially if no mood stabilizer is being taken.21
Omega-3 fatty acids found in fish oil are being studied to determine their usefulness, alone and when added to conventional medications, for long-term treatment of bipolar disorder.22

sherr34

02-23-2007, 06:33 PM

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19U.S. Department of Health and Human Services. Mental health: a report of the Surgeon General. Rockville, MD: U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, Center for Mental Health Services, National Institutes of Health, National Institute of Mental Health, 1999.

20Henney JE. Risk of drug interactions with St. John's wort. From the Food and Drug Administration. Journal of the American Medical Association, 2000; 283(13): 1679.

21Nierenberg AA, Burt T, Matthews J, Weiss AP. Mania associated with St. John's wort. Biological Psychiatry, 1999; 46(12): 1707-8.

22Stoll AL, Severus WE, Freeman MP, Rueter S, Zboyan HA, Diamond E, Cress KK, Marangell LB. Omega 3 fatty acids in bipolar disorder: a preliminary double-blind, placebo-controlled trial. Archives of General Psychiatry, 1999; 56(5): 407-12.

23Strakowski SM, DelBello MP. The co-occurrence of bipolar and substance use disorders. Clinical Psychology Review, 2000; 20(2): 191-206.

24Mueser KT, Goodman LB, Trumbetta SL, Rosenberg SD, Osher FC, Vidaver R, Auciello P, Foy DW. Trauma and posttraumatic stress disorder in severe mental illness. Journal of Consulting and Clinical Psychology, 1998; 66(3): 493-9.

25Strakowski SM, Sax KW, McElroy SL, Keck PE Jr, Hawkins JM, West SA. Course of psychiatric and substance abuse syndromes co-occurring with bipolar disorder after a first psychiatric hospitalization. Journal of Clinical Psychiatry, 1998; 59(9): 465-71.

ManOfWord

02-23-2007, 06:36 PM

Your use of this passage in this way is evil!

What you're essentially saying is that "Well, it doesn't directly contradict a specific passage of scripture, so that means it must be in harmony with scripture and, thus, it's okay for us to rely on it."

Muahahahaha.......Being the evil person that I am, of course I would use scripture in an evil way! Would you really expect anything less? :D

And regarding your second statement, for clarification, I stated that if something wasn't contrary to not only scripture, but scriptural principles............and YES, it's OK to rely it if it meets that qualification, as far as I'm concerned. Sorry that tweaks your beak!

LaGirl

02-23-2007, 10:16 PM

You must not understand(or probably care to) the origin of psychology. Chan is correct. The 'scientific' basis for it is in serious question.

yes i understand psycholgy VERY WELL!

LaGirl

02-23-2007, 10:17 PM

I thought I'd peak in...*quietly slipping out*

lol.....join the fun.

ManOfWord

02-24-2007, 04:02 PM

You must not understand(or probably care to) the origin of psychology. Chan is correct. The 'scientific' basis for it is in serious question.

I understand where Chan is coming from on both counts. #1 that Psychology is not a "perfect" science. #2 Why he is calling it a worldly/evil philosophy.

My point is twofold:

#1 There are certainly things in psychology that I believe are contrary to scripture and scriptural principles.

#2 There are certainly things in psychology that are NOT contrary to scripture and scriptural principles.

So the mature and wise Christian simply "eats" the meat and throws away the bones! It really is not that difficult.

Two cases in point would be: Maxell Maltz's "Psycho-Cybernetics, and James Allen's "As A Man Thinketh." There are things in both of these books I don't agree with, but if you read them, it is easy to see (at least for me) that both of these men have some biblical background and many of the things they write are right on target biblically and are VERY helpful.

MrRight

02-25-2007, 01:39 PM

If God made our minds, why is it wrong to study and try to undertand it?
Is it wrong to wrtie about what we understand an study?

I guess I don't get the big deal.

Trouvere

02-25-2007, 03:45 PM

people who have abused drugs and alcohol have imbalances due to nerve and brain cell death and damage.Certain functions in our bodies need chemical messangers and that is a fact.God can heal this but it doesn't alway happen right away and never happens for some.Sad but true.In these instances I can understand needing things like lithium.Lithium is a salt but is not without side effects.Jail is full of people who have destroyed themselves and others due to
chemical abuse.

ManOfWord

02-25-2007, 08:03 PM

tv1a

02-25-2007, 08:54 PM

sherr34

02-25-2007, 09:09 PM

tv1a,
Your correct. There are times where I wonder if my head is going to explode of to much information. When I was working I couldn't concentrate at times and that would get frustrating for me and also I would be distracted at times.

Trouvere

02-25-2007, 09:29 PM

Here's my theory, it may be full of hot air, but then again, it may not either:

We are killing ourselves and creating more and more people with chemical imbalances in their brains due the US's food supply being FAR from the natural mineral content etc, and the use of chemicals to enhance growth for profit.

No amount of counselling or scripture will fix a chemical imbalance outside of a miracle, which I fully believe in. In that respect, psychiatry & psychology can help.

I just recieved word tonight that a man committed suicide who was seemed to be an excellent Dad and husband. He even got everything in order in regards to paper work, insurance etc. He had been receiving some counselling, but apparently, too little too late. This is so sad.

If he only could have received some "smarmy" comments about taking two scriptures and everything being OK.
That is such a sad story brother.People are what Jesus died for.We live in such a time that people want the ministry for a career but don't like people.What a shame that he could not have found deliverance from the depression.We can only do what we can and God has to do the rest.

Chan

02-26-2007, 08:22 AM

Chan,
Whatever!! Chemical imbalances are real. I personally think you need to get your head examined and learn a few things. What would you do if you where diagnosed with Bipolar.No, not "Whatever"! There are no objective diagnostic tests (such as PET scans, blood work, etc.) that show these "chemical imbalances" or, more to the point, that it is these chemical imbalances that are specifically causing conditions such as "bipolar disorder." Note the following regarding the term "chemical imbalance":

"It is not used in scientific literature as it does not reflect current knowledge. A criticism of the use of this lay explanation is that explaining mental illness in terms of 'chemical imbalance' implicates a chemical solution. For example, insufficient availability of insulin (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin) in type I diabetes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetes) is treated with insulin. By analogy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analogy), it then appears that the appropriate treatment for insufficient (imbalanced) neurotransmitter levels is a chemical that fixes this balance. However, unlike Type I diabetes, chemical insufficiencies have never been identified in patients diagnosed with mental disorders, and other treatments are available for mental illness, and medication is often most effective when supplemented with other treatments."

SOURCE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_imbalance_theory)

Psychiatrist David Kaiser said, "Patients [have] been diagnosed with 'chemical imbalance' despite the fact that no test exists to support such a claim, and … there is no real conception of what a correct chemical imbalance would look like." The words of the President of the APA should also be noted. Mr. Steven Sharfstein said, "We do not have a clean-cut lab test [to detect chemical imbalances in the brain]." SOURCE (http://www.playattention.com/attention-deficit/articles/adhd-diagnosis-caution-no-test-exists-to-support-chemical-imbalance-claim/)

Here's what the Food and Drug Administration has to say:

"Direct to consumer advertising misleads the public by claiming their normal reactions to life experiences *MAY* be caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. But consumers don't hear the 'may' - they hear the overall message the drug companies want them to hear, and they take a pill for a chemical imbalance that doesn't exist.

Since the 1960s, researchers have been unable to prove that any of the 374 mental disorders listed in psychiatry?s bible, the DSM, are caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. Regarding depression, researchers have not been able to prove their theory that any of the depressive disorders is caused by an imbalance of serotonin...A big tip-off that psychiatry has not proven their chemical imbalance theory lies in the fact that no lab test exists to detect a chemical imbalance in a person?s brain?admitted by American Psychiatric Association President Dr. Steven Sharfstein in the July 11th issue of People magazine. If there were a chemical imbalance, then people would be taking a test to see what chemicals they lack and how much they lack. Instead, people are subjectively interviewed, diagnosed, and prescribed an antidepressant in as little as five minutes, as I have witnessed firsthand as a mental health professional.

With many studies debunking the chemical imbalance theory, and not one study proving it, then we must ask, why would anyone take a drug to correct an imbalance that no one knows is there in the first place? Why would someone diagnosed with depression take an antidepressant, when the antidepressant tries to fix something in the brain that is not broken?

What occurs in the brain when we introduce drugs to try to fix a problem that is not there?when we give a normal brain an abnormal foreign substance? Common sense says the brain will have an adverse reaction, which is exactly what happens. Antidepressants cause chemical imbalances in the brain, and frequently result in outward manifestations of various mental disorders - even suicide and murder, as the FDA has warned with their black box labels.

For these reasons, psychiatric drug direct to consumer advertising is false advertising, pure and simple. These drug companies have made mental conditions physical diseases without a shred of evidence, have convinced the general public that they have a physical disease without an objective test to prove it, and have made billions from their drugs that do nothing more than placebo at best, and have caused the tragic deaths of thousands at worse." SOURCE (http://www.fda.gov/ohrms/DOCKETS/dockets/05n0354/05N-0354-EC403.htm)

Chan

02-26-2007, 08:26 AM

Chan,
Also like I said I have the Holy Ghost and I have been baptized. I was raised apostolic all my like. I have a very strong faith in God. You dont know what it is like having Bipolar is just not emotional it is physical. How would you like it if you could even function from day to day. Or you cant work because you cant function physically. I pray that the Lord will open your eyes.I've known people who have so-called "bipolar disorder." I know that sometimes one's emotional state does exhibit itself in physical symptoms (such as pain). But even the Food and Drug Administration says that there is no proof that "chemical imbalances" in the brain cause mental "illness."

Chan

02-26-2007, 08:30 AM

Chan

02-26-2007, 08:36 AM

Brain-imaging studies are helping scientists learn what goes wrong in the brain to produce bipolar disorder and other mental illnesses.8,9 New brain-imaging techniques allow researchers to take pictures of the living brain at work, to examine its structure and activity, without the need for surgery or other invasive procedures. These techniques include magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), positron emission tomography (PET), and functional magnetic resonance imaging (fMRI). There is evidence from imaging studies that the brains of people with bipolar disorder may differ from the brains of healthy individuals. As the differences are more clearly identified and defined through research, scientists will gain a better understanding of the underlying causes of the illness, and eventually may be able to predict which types of treatment will work most effectively.It is conspicuous that they don't use these brain imaging tests to actually diagnose bipolar disorder. Besides, what's to say that it isn't the emotional state that is causing the changes in the brain? How did they decide someone had bipolar disorder other than by simply asking the person to describe his or her symptoms? There is still no objective testing that can be done to specifically show that a person has bipolar disorder, i.e. that it is specifically something going on in the brain that is causing the cycling between emotional states.

Chan

02-26-2007, 08:40 AM

If God made our minds, why is it wrong to study and try to undertand it?
Is it wrong to wrtie about what we understand an study?

I guess I don't get the big deal.It is the underlying philosophy or world view from which one is studying it that is at issue. Psychology is based on a secular world view and has its basis in various worldly philosophies. The only valid source for the study of the mind is the word of God.

Chan

02-26-2007, 08:45 AM

Chan's philosophy lacks biblical precedence since the Apostle Paul cited pagan poets in messages, and his epistles. Psychology lining up with scripture is no different than quoting pagan poets. If every word in the Bible is divinely inspired by God, than God used a pagan poet on more than one occasion to display a biblical truth. One doesn't have to throw out the baby with the bath water.

BTW, who ever says there is no physical evidence people are bi-polar have'nt looked at pictures of brain activities of bi-polar people. There is a noticable scientific difference.Paul cited a POET, not philosophy. In fact, what did Paul say about worldly wisdom (philosophy)? He said it was foolishness to God.

As for the so-called "physical evidence," you're basing it on the notion of first declaring that a person has "bipolar disorder" and then doing a brain scan (which really doesn't show something in the brain specifically causing the bipolar disorder). The words of the President of the APA should also be noted. Mr. Steven Sharfstein said, "We do not have a clean-cut lab test [to detect chemical imbalances in the brain]."

sherr34

02-26-2007, 09:02 AM

Chan,
If God made the mind then why cant it be studies. I think you are foolish. What would you do if you where Bipolar??

Chan

02-26-2007, 09:26 AM

Chan,
If God made the mind then why cant it be studies. I think you are foolish. What would you do if you where Bipolar??
Did you bother to read my reply to MrRight? If you had, there would be no basis for you to make such remarks as the ones in your post. Here's what I said:

"It is the underlying philosophy or world view from which one is studying it that is at issue. Psychology is based on a secular world view and has its basis in various worldly philosophies. The only valid source for the study of the mind is the word of God." (Underlined for emphasis).

Chan

02-26-2007, 09:56 AM

The pathology of depression—the monoamine hypothesis: Antidepressants are believed to exert their therapeutic effects by acting on brain monoamines, which are believed to be important determinants of mood. However, in a circular chain of logic, the monoamine theory of depression was itself formulated primarily in response to observations that early antidepressants increased brain monoamine levels [3]. (EMPHASIS MINE, in other words, "The drugs work, so the depression must be caused by such-and-such in the brain").

Independent evidence has not confirmed that there is a monoamine abnormality in depression. For example, the findings of brain imaging studies of serotonin (http://www.newstarget.com/serotonin.html) abnormality are contradictory. Some found reduced serotonin 1A receptor binding in drug-free patients who were depressed, consistent with the hypothesis that selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs (http://www.newstarget.com/SSRIs.html)) improve depression by correcting a deficiency of serotonin activity [4,5]. Other studies, however, have found no difference between patients who are drug-free and controls [6,7] or increased binding potential in depressed patients [7,8]. Postmortem findings of receptor changes in the brains of people who committed suicide have also been inconsistent [9–11]. In some studies, with patients who had recovered from depression, a tryptophan depletion challenge led to a transient increase in depressive symptoms. However, these results have not been confirmed in volunteer studies [12], and the effect appears to be dependent on previous SSRI use [13]. Research on catecholamines (noradrenaline and adrenalin) is similarly confusing and inconclusive [14]. (EMPHASIS MINE).

Schildkraut JJ (1965) The catecholamine hypothesis of affective disorders: A review of supporting evidence. Am J Psychiatry 122:509–522. Find this article online (http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-citation-links&doi=0002-953X%281965%29122%5B0509%3ATCHOAD%5D2.0.CO%3B2&id=JOURNAL-PMED-0030240-B3&sitename=PLOSONLINE)
Sargent PA, Kjaer KH, Bench CJ, Rabiner EA, Messa C, et al. (2000) Brain serotonin 1A receptor binding measured by positron emission tomography with [11C]WAY-100635: Effects of depression and antidepressant treatment. Arch Gen Psychiatry 57:174–180. Find this article online (http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-citation-links&doi=0003-990X%282000%29057%5B0174%3ABSARBM%5D2.0.CO%3B2&id=JOURNAL-PMED-0030240-B4&sitename=PLOSONLINE)
Drevets WC, Frank E, Price JC, Kupfer DJ, Holt D, et al. (1999) PET imaging of serotonin 1A receptor binding in depression. Biol Psychiatry 46:1375–1387. Find this article online (http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-citation-links&doi=0006-3223%281999%29046%5B1375%3APIOSAR%5D2.0.CO%3B2&id=JOURNAL-PMED-0030240-B5&sitename=PLOSONLINE)
Meyer JH, Houle S, Sagrati S, Carella A, Hussey DF, et al. (2004) Brain serotonin transporter binding potential measured with carbon 11-labeled DASB positron emission tomography: Effects of major depressive episodes and severity of dysfunctional attitudes. Arch Gen Psychiatry 61:1271–1279. Find this article online (http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-citation-links&doi=0003-990X%282004%29061%5B1271%3ABSTBPM%5D2.0.CO%3B2&id=JOURNAL-PMED-0030240-B6&sitename=PLOSONLINE)
Parsey RV, Oquendo MA, Ogden RT, Olvet DM, Simpson N, et al. (2006) Altered serotonin 1A binding in major depression: A [carbonyl-C-11]WAY100635 positron emission tomography study. Biol Psychiatry 59:106–113. Find this article online (http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-citation-links&doi=0006-3223%282006%29059%5B0106%3AASABIM%5D2.0.CO%3B2&id=JOURNAL-PMED-0030240-B7&sitename=PLOSONLINE)
Reivich M, Amsterdam JD, Brunswick DJ, Shiue CY (2004) PET brain imaging with [11C](+)McN5652 shows increased serotonin transporter availability in major depression. J Affect Disord 82:321–327. Find this article online (http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-citation-links&doi=0165-0327%282004%29082%5B0321%3APBIWCS%5D2.0.CO%3B2&id=JOURNAL-PMED-0030240-B8&sitename=PLOSONLINE)
Stockmeier CA, Dilley GE, Shapiro LA, Overholser JC, Thompson PA, et al. (1997) Serotonin receptors in suicide victims with major depression. Neuropsychopharmacology 16:162–173. Find this article online (http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-citation-links&doi=0893-133X%281997%29016%5B0162%3ASRISVW%5D2.0.CO%3B2&id=JOURNAL-PMED-0030240-B9&sitename=PLOSONLINE)
Lowther S, De Paermentier F, Cheetham SC, Crompton MR, Katona CL, et al. (1997) 5-HT1A receptor binding sites in post-mortem brain samples from depressed suicides and controls. J Affect Disord 42:199–207. Find this article online (http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-citation-links&doi=0165-0327%281997%29042%5B0199%3AHRBSIP%5D2.0.CO%3B2&id=JOURNAL-PMED-0030240-B10&sitename=PLOSONLINE)
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Delgado PL, Miller HL, Salomon RM, Licinio J, Krystal JH, et al. (1999) Tryptophan-depletion challenge in depressed patients treated with desipramine or fluoxetine: Implications for the role of serotonin in the mechanism of antidepressant action. Biol Psychiatry 46:212–220. Find this article online (http://medicine.plosjournals.org/perlserv/?request=get-citation-links&doi=0006-3223%281999%29046%5B0212%3ATCIDPT%5D2.0.CO%3B2&id=JOURNAL-PMED-0030240-B13&sitename=PLOSONLINE)
Healy D (1999) The antidepressant era. New York: Harvard University Press. 336 p.SOURCE (http://www.newstarget.com/019416.html)

Chan

02-26-2007, 10:02 AM

Here's my theory, it may be full of hot air, but then again, it may not either:

We are killing ourselves and creating more and more people with chemical imbalances in their brains due the US's food supply being FAR from the natural mineral content etc, and the use of chemicals to enhance growth for profit.I'd like to see some studies done on this. How much of an impact have all these chemically-enhanced and processed foods we've been eating since at least the 1960s had on people?

No amount of counselling or scripture will fix a chemical imbalance outside of a miracle, which I fully believe in. In that respect, psychiatry & psychology can help.Assuming, of course, such a chemical balance even exists, of which there is no objective evidence. What one does about one's mood state is a spiritual matter, not a physiological one.

I just recieved word tonight that a man committed suicide who was seemed to be an excellent Dad and husband. He even got everything in order in regards to paper work, insurance etc. He had been receiving some counselling, but apparently, too little too late. This is so sad.So, he was actually planning this out. If he had relied on the Savior instead of himself, if he has listened to the Spirit of God instead of his own heart (that the Bible says is "desperately wicked"), he would not have committed suicide.

If he only could have received some "smarmy" comments about taking two scriptures and everything being OK.If only he had put his trust in Christ instead of being controlled by his own emotions!

Chan

02-26-2007, 12:13 PM

Chan,
If God made the mind then why cant it be studies. I think you are foolish. What would you do if you where Bipolar??You are responding based on emotion and not on reason. Again, even the head of the American Psychological Association has admitted there are no lab tests to show that there is a chemical imbalance in the brain. The Food and Drug Administration has likewise denied there is evidence of a chemical imbalance (and, thus, denied that the applicable mental illnesses are medical conditions).

Look to God and His word for your answers, not to worldly philosophies.

sherr34

02-26-2007, 12:38 PM

I will go on with what I believe. I go to a upc church and my pastors knows about the medical condition that I have. He believes in the chemical imbalance in the brain.

Chan

02-26-2007, 01:27 PM

I will go on with what I believe. I go to a upc church and my pastors knows about the medical condition that I have. He believes in the chemical imbalance in the brain.

Ah, yes, the "Don't confuse me with facts, my mind is made up" routine.

Again, here's what the Food and Drug Administration has to say:
.
"Direct to consumer advertising misleads the public by claiming their normal reactions to life experiences *MAY* be caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. But consumers don't hear the 'may' - they hear the overall message the drug companies want them to hear, and they take a pill for a chemical imbalance that doesn't exist.

Since the 1960s, researchers have been unable to prove that any of the 374 mental disorders listed in psychiatry's bible, the DSM, are caused by chemical imbalances in the brain. Regarding depression, researchers have not been able to prove their theory that any of the depressive disorders is caused by an imbalance of serotonin...'A big tip-off that psychiatry has not proven their chemical imbalance theory lies in the fact that no lab test exists to detect a chemical imbalance in a person's brain' admitted by American Psychiatric Association President Dr. Steven Sharfstein in the July 11th issue of People magazine. If there were a chemical imbalance, then people would be taking a test to see what chemicals they lack and how much they lack. Instead, people are subjectively interviewed, diagnosed, and prescribed an antidepressant in as little as five minutes, as I have witnessed firsthand as a mental health professional.

With many studies debunking the chemical imbalance theory, and not one study proving it, then we must ask, why would anyone take a drug to correct an imbalance that no one knows is there in the first place? Why would someone diagnosed with depression take an antidepressant, when the antidepressant tries to fix something in the brain that is not broken? What occurs in the brain when we introduce drugs to try to fix a problem that is not there - when we give a normal brain an abnormal foreign substance? Common sense says the brain will have an adverse reaction, which is exactly what happens. Antidepressants cause chemical imbalances in the brain, and frequently result in outward manifestations of various mental disorders - even suicide and murder, as the FDA has warned with their black box labels.

For these reasons, psychiatric drug direct to consumer advertising is false advertising, pure and simple. These drug companies have made mental conditions physical diseases without a shred of evidence, have convinced the general public that they have a physical disease without an objective test to prove it, and have made billions from their drugs that do nothing more than placebo at best, and have caused the tragic deaths of thousands at worse."

You will never be set free from your bondage to your emotions as long as you continue to put your trust in worldly philosophies (like psychology) and unproven theories (such as the chemical imbalance theory) instead of putting your trust in God and His word. It doesn't matter that you attend a UPC or that you are filled with the Holy Ghost, you are still a slave to your emotions and are being deceived by psychiatry and psychology.

Malvaro

02-28-2007, 03:31 PM

someone needs to rhonify this thread....

Chan

03-02-2007, 02:40 PM

Psychology has its roots in ancient philosophers like Socrates, Aristotle, and Plato. None of these men were worshipers of the true and living God. At best, they believed in a god that was not involved in the affairs of men, and at worst they worshiped multiple pagan gods.

Modern psychology was brought to the forefront by Sigmund Freud in the late nineteenth century. Freud certainly wasn’t a godly man. He was obsessed with sex and linked every problem of man to the sexual drive. This man had serious problems, even his most devoted followers admitted that.

Here is the point: If the root is bad, then the tree has to be bad. Jesus said this very plainly in Matthew 7:17-18, "Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.”

The root of psychology is bad, and therefore, the fruit cannot be good. I’m amazed at the acceptance of psychology in our society and especially in the church. Many churches and ministries have resident psychiatrists on staff. This isn’t the approach Jesus took. He met the needs, all the needs of the people through the power of the Holy Spirit, and I believe He intends His church to do the same. They don’t have to depart and go to the world to get their emotional needs met. They should bring them to Jesus (Matt. 14:16-18).

Christianity and psychology have some things in common: They both state that our actions are the product of inner processes. But in describing what those processes are and how to change them, Christianity and psychology take the opposite approach. For one thing, the very word “psychology” reveals an anti-god approach.

The word “psychology” comes from a derivative of the Greek word "psyche" meaning “soul.” Psychology looks no deeper than the soul of man for answers. It totally ignores the spirit realm: our spirits, God’s Holy Spirit, and demonic spirits. The Word of God is replete with teachings and examples of the influence of God, demons, and our spirits on our actions. Any “answer” that doesn’t take the spirit realm into account isn’t going to the root of the problem. The Greek word "psyche" was also the name of the Greek god of the soul. "eros" and "psyche" were lovers in Greek mythology. Who wants that?

Here are four major tenants of psychology that I believe are incompatible with biblical Christianity:

1) We are products of our environment.
2) Therefore, we are not responsible or accountable for our actions.
3) This leads to placing blame for our actions on anything else but on us, making us victims.
4) Self-esteem is paramount.

SOURCE (http://www.awmi.net/extra/article/psychology_christianity) - For more about this, read the book Harnessing Your Emotions (http://www.awmi.net/store/usa/books/313).

Let's look at these points for a moment.

1) We are products of our environment - The Bible tells us that it's our thoughts that make us what we are (see Proverbs 23:7), not our environment. While our environment may have some influence, how we react to and/or interact with our environment is our choice. In other words, we can choose to be either a victim or a victor.

2) Therefore, we are not responsible or accountable for our actions - Taking responsibility for our actions is the big difference between true Christianity and psychology. Psychology has influenced our society to such a degree that no one is held accountable for their actions. Even murderers are being acquitted because it’s "not their fault"; they were abused as children or whatever. That’s stupid. Some of us have had problems that others haven’t, but God still holds us accountable for our own actions, regardless of what has happened to us. In psychology, children aren't rebellious and dishonoring toward their parents, they have "oppositional-defiant disorder." A man doesn't have occasions where he commits the sin of wrath, he has "intermittent explosive disorder." In other words, sin has been replaced with mental illness. For more about this phenomenon, read psychiatrist Dr. Karl Menninger's Whatever Became of Sin? and former psychotherapist Lisa Bazler's Psychology Debunked.

3) This leads to placing blame for our actions on anything else but on us, making us victims - Oh, yes! Everyone is at fault for my actions except me! Behavior is a choice and I guarantee you that God holds us accountable for our behavior! We'll give account for "every idle word" we've ever spoken (Matthew 12:36); how much more will we give account for every action! You have a choice: you can be a victim or you can (through Christ) be a victor!

4) Self-esteem is paramount - Psychology says "self-esteem" while the Bible says to esteem others "in lowliness of mind" (see Philippians 2:3). Psychology gets us to focus on ourselves and on feeling good about ourselves. This is, to put it mildly, the sin of pride. The Bible tells us to humble ourselves, die to ourselves, and to deny ourselves. Thus, psychology and Christianity are clearly antithetical to each other. Feeling bad because you find yourself with unnatural sexual attractions (such as homosexuality, pedophilia, etc.)? That's okay, psychology will help you feel good about having those unnatural attractions and get you to embrace and celebrate them. Psychology has even gone as far as to declare homosexuality a "normal" variation of human sexuality. Pedophilia may be next if some psychologists get their way. Are you biologically one sex (male or female) but you "feel" you are the opposite sex on the inside? That's okay. Instead of helping you overcome your "gender dysphoria" (a psychological term), psychology encourages you to embrace your internal "gender" and go have a doctor change your body to match what's going on inside your mind. Christianity, on the other hand, urges you with the Apostle Paul to "take every thought captive" to obey Christ (2 Corinthians 10:5).

The words of Paul in 2 Corinthians 6:14-18 can be applied to the attempt to bring worldly philosophies like psychology into the Church:

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."