Statements of Faith

[Sherri]

Just an observation on my part, as one who left UPC 17 years ago......

Lately I have read several Statements of Faith from various UPC churches, some I would consider liberal/moderate, some actually conservative. Some of their statements of beliefs are more generic than ours! Some don't mention baptism at all, or mention it but don't mention Jesus' name. Some say the Holy Ghost is for all believers, but don't mention tongues. They also don't say that it's essential, which shocked me. Some say that you are a part of the Kingdom of God upon repentance.

Is it just me, or is this a new trend? Are they masking what they really teach and believe to keep their websites from scaring people away before they ever come visit? Or is this honestly the way UPC seems to be heading.

Just curious, as this is a lot of the reason we left in the first place....we couldn't agree with the idea that it's "our way or the highway". 17 years ago, you would NEVER have seen this kind of stuff on UPC websites, if UPC websites had even existed. LOL!

Any thoughts?

[freeatlast]

Lotsa OP's are seeing the light Sherri. The "closet one stepper" are finally beginning to speak out.

I think you'll continue to see an exodus from the mother ship by those who just can't condone the aritcles of faith of the UPC

[Sherri]

Lotsa OP's are seeing the light Sherri. The "closet one stepper" are finally beginning to speak out.

I think you'll continue to see an exodu from the mother ship by those who just can't condone the aritcles of faith of the UPC
I guess the difference now is that they AREN'T leaving, but staying and doing their own thing. That would not have been tolerated at the time that we left. Very interesting.....:whistle

[Hoovie]

Sherri, the reasons may vary, but to me a soft approach is the only way to influence and win others. It just makes good sense whether we are are talking doctrinal specifics or dress standards.

I have thought this way for a long time - in spite of the fact I would be considered conservative in practice.

So I hope and pray that's "the way UPC seems to be heading".

[Sherri]

Sherri, the reasons may vary, but to me a soft approach is the only way to influence and win others. It just makes good sense whether we are are talking doctrinal specifics or dress standards.

I have thought this way for a long time - in spite of the fact I would be considered conservative in practice.

So I hope and pray that's "the way UPC seems to be heading".Well, I hope so too, but it's kind of shocking to those of us who were trashed years ago for these same thoughts. At the time, we had no choice but to go, because what we believed was not tolerated.

I just wondered if this is what the majority of UPC is thinking, or is this just a brave outspoken few?

[Hoovie]

Well, I hope so too, but it's kind of shocking to those of us who were trashed years ago for these same thoughts. At the time, we had no choice but to go, because what we believed was not tolerated.

I just wondered if this is what the majority of UPC is thinking, or is this just a brave outspoken few?

Hmmm.... I would say it's not so much about how some believe differently - they are all still very much Oneness Pentecostal - but rather a new level of maturity, a different approach and a confidence that God truly knows every heart while we humans lack in both knowledge and understanding.

[Pastor Keith]

Just an observation on my part, as one who left UPC 17 years ago......

Lately I have read several Statements of Faith from various UPC churches, some I would consider liberal/moderate, some actually conservative. Some of their statements of beliefs are more generic than ours! Some don't mention baptism at all, or mention it but don't mention Jesus' name. Some say the Holy Ghost is for all believers, but don't mention tongues. They also don't say that it's essential, which shocked me. Some say that you are a part of the Kingdom of God upon repentance.

Is it just me, or is this a new trend? Are they masking what they really teach and believe to keep their websites from scaring people away before they ever come visit? Or is this honestly the way UPC seems to be heading.

Just curious, as this is a lot of the reason we left in the first place....we couldn't agree with the idea that it's "our way or the highway". 17 years ago, you would NEVER have seen this kind of stuff on UPC websites, if UPC websites had even existed. LOL!

Any thoughts?


I think some are doing the conceal thing, I think others doing the Big Tent thing.

[Sherri]

I think some are doing the conceal thing, I think others doing the Big Tent thing.

Meaning??????????

[crakjak]

I hope the concealed thing is genuine, not just a cover to get someone hooked and then skin them. lol

[Sam]

This is an old creed or statement of faith.

I think we could all agree with this:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.

He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead.

He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.

Amen.

note: the word "catholic" with a small "c" means the one universal church or body of Christ and does not mean "Roman Catholic."

[AmericanAngel]

Well, I hope so too, but it's kind of shocking to those of us who were trashed years ago for these same thoughts. At the time, we had no choice but to go, because what we believed was not tolerated.

I just wondered if this is what the majority of UPC is thinking, or is this just a brave outspoken few?

It's been a trend for the past 15/20 years or so. It took a few brave souls to start and stand their ground, in love of course.
I pray for you to have a complete healing, to be whole, from the past remarks and treatments, in Jesus name. Amen.
I understand how you feel, I was/am one of those. :friend

[Jack Shephard]

I think that it makes it user friendly. Meaning that one doesn't have a preconceived notion before coming or they write it off without a chance. I have seen churches be up front with what they believe and they are smaller churches. I have seen churches soften it up and they are typically larger, IMO. Once a person is in a service and feels the spirit move it becomes contagious and they want it, but if they were to read 'tongues' and other things it can scare a person and they not even darken the doors of the church.

[freeatlast]

Whoever came up with the idea that a statement of faith should a complete thesis of everything a church believes or does not believe.

Sheeshhh gimme a break allready !!!

[Sept5SavedTeen]

The UPC assembly I joined, back in 2004, only had the Scripture from JESUS's talk with Peter "upon this Rock I will build my church" and Acts 2:37-39 in the "Beliefs" Section, and then there was a tab for setting up home Bible Studies- it was not very comprehensive and the preaching was not very expository and now the website is even gone. They get a few people here and there, but very few like myself who come looking specifically for an apostolic church and saying, "Ok, can you baptize me in JESUS' name?" In fact, there are people in that UPC assembly that have gone there for a while and STILL not been baptized in JESUS' name, that always bothered me- only once in a while was a message preached to get those kind of people baptized.

-Bro. Alex

[Jack Shephard]

Alex, there are alot of things that people need inorder to make the decision to be baptized. Some people don't even know if they believe in God or they think that they are just fine where they are spiritually. God does His work in His time. Be confident that God will perfect His work.

[freeatlast]

The UPC assembly I joined, back in 2004, only had the Scripture from JESUS's talk with Peter "upon this Rock I will build my church" and Acts 2:37-39 in the "Beliefs" Section, and then there was a tab for setting up home Bible Studies- it was not very comprehensive and the preaching was not very expository and now the website is even gone. They get a few people here and there, but very few like myself who come looking specifically for an apostolic church and saying, "Ok, can you baptize me in JESUS' name?" In fact, there are people in that UPC assembly that have gone there for a while and STILL not been baptized in JESUS' name, that always bothered me- only once in a while was a message preached to get those kind of people baptized.

-Bro. Alex

Alex, I was almost thrown into the tank my first week going to an OP church.

In hindsight I wish they would have taught me more about why I was being baptized.

Seemed it was more for them so they could say, " baptized another one last night"

I broght a friend to that same church. He prayed thru and was told to bring a change of clothes so he could baptized (on his second time at this church)

He did not bring clothing with him. He was rebuked from the pulpit and told he needed to yeild to God and be baptized or he would loose his mind.

My friend did not come back to church with me any more after that....Go Figure.

It's appropriate that new folks be taught a bit before being rushed to the water.

[Jack Shephard]

Alex, I was almost thrown into the tank my first week going to an OP church.

In hindsight I wish they would have taught me more about why I was being baptized.

Seemed it was more for them so they could say, " baptized another one last night"

I broght a friend to that same church. He prayed thru and was told to bring a change of clothes so he could baptized (on his second time at this church)

He did not bring clothing with him. He was rebuked from the pulpit and told he needed to yeild to God and be baptized or he would loose his mind.

My friend did not come back to church with me any more after that....Go Figure.

It's appropriate that new folks be taught a bit before being rushed to the water.

I believe that I would stand up and walk out. :aaa

[Sam]

Alex, I was almost thrown into the tank my first week going to an OP church.

In hindsight I wish they would have taught me more about why I was being baptized.

Seemed it was more for them so they could say, " baptized another one last night"

I broght a friend to that same church. He prayed thru and was told to bring a change of clothes so he could baptized (on his second time at this church)

He did not bring clothing with him. He was rebuked from the pulpit and told he needed to yeild to God and be baptized or he would loose his mind.

My friend did not come back to church with me any more after that....Go Figure.

It's appropriate that new folks be taught a bit before being rushed to the water.

In the Book of Acts, there are instances of baptism immediately following conversion/salvation --like 3000 going through the Temple mikvehs on the day of Pentecost in Acts chapter 2, the jailer and his family (any infants baptized there?) after midnight in Acts chapter 16, the Eunuch in the desert in Acts chapter 8 etc.

I would think it would be good if the church can do it to have water and clothing available for baptism at any time. However, I don't think folks should be "pushed" or "coerced" into baptism too soon. Some times they might need a little time to process in their minds just what has happened. How about something like, letting people know that they have made a great change and God has given them new life, forgiveness of sins, birth into His family, etc, and now the next step is to seal that decision with water baptism? And letting them know that they should do this soon and even tonight if they want to? But not "pushing" them into something they may not feel ready for yet?

[Shawn]

Alex, I was almost thrown into the tank my first week going to an OP church.

In hindsight I wish they would have taught me more about why I was being baptized.


He did not bring clothing with him. He was rebuked from the pulpit and told he needed to yeild to God and be baptized or he would loose his mind.



It's appropriate that new folks be taught a bit before being rushed to the water.



I can easily relate to your story.

I was invited to a rather large bible study back in '95. Trinity folks, lot of holly rollers. I was invited by my employer at the time. After a few months me and some other folks were baptized at a small non-denominational church after a study.

About a month later a speaker was invited to the study. And he spoke specificaly on baptism in Jesus name. At that point I had read the bible, but I hadn't spent any time in church, no denominations or doctrine.

I heard that brother preach baptism in Jesus name and I said to my self, 'I can do that. That's nothing I wouldn't do. It says it right there in the scriptures.' Of course the trinity folks were fuming. I didn't understand the negativity...I do now.

So a few weeks later a small group got together and after a bibly study on baptism in Jesus name went to an Apostolic church. I was baptized with several others and I got the Holy Ghost the same night. I didn't even know about tarrying for the Holy Ghost until shortly after I was baptized. I wasn't raised in the church....this was all new to me.

Needless to say, this was all quite a shock. I was actually a musician in a rock band at the time...



I do wish I could of sat in that church a while before I was baptized.....I actually don't think that's a bad idea necasrily. We actually drove from across town to this church to be baptized, I had't even heard the Pastor preach yet.......I do think they were fine folks thougt.

At that point I new nothing about Oneness, or other Apostolic doctrine of the bible. I do believe Jesus name baptism is correct. And Oneness Of God.


I also know that if I don't fully understand something it doesn't mean it's wrong. Usually if I'm patient and pray for knowledge and understading Jesus will come through one revelation at a time.........I pray for his mercy and his patience for me....

[Jack Shephard]

I can easily relate to your story.

I was invited to a rather large bible study back in '95. Trinity folks, lot of holly rollers. I was invited by my employer at the time. After a few months me and some other folks were baptized at a small non-denominational church after a study.

About a month later a speaker was invited to the study. And he spoke specificaly on baptism in Jesus name. At that point I had read the bible, but I hadn't spent any time in church, no denominations or doctrine.

I heard that brother preach baptism in Jesus name and I said to my self, 'I can do that. That's nothing I wouldn't do. It says it right there in the scriptures.' Of course the trinity folks were fuming. I didn't understand the negativity...I do now.

So a few weeks later a small group got together and after a bibly study on baptism in Jesus name went to an Apotolic church. I was baptized with several others and I got the Holy Ghost the same night. I didn't even know about tarrying for the Holy Ghost until shortly after I was baptized. I wasn't raised in the church....this was all new to me.

Needless to say, this was all quite a shock. I was actually a musician in a rock band at the time...



I do wish I could of sat in that church a while before I was baptized.....I actually don't think that's a bad idea necasrily. We actually drove from across town to this church to be baptized, I had't even heard the Pastor preach yet.......I do think they were fine folks thougt.

At that point I new nothing about Oneness, or other Apostolic doctrine of the bible. I do believe Jesus name baptism is correct. And Oneness Of God.


I also know that if I don't fully understand something it doesn't mean it's wrong. Usually if I'm patient and pray for knowledge and understading Jessus will come through one revelation at a time.........I pray for his mercy and his patience for me....

I feel ya. Seems at times our ministers preach so hard about Acts 2:38 and try to get people to that, but skips over so many things. At times it seems that repentance and making a choice to receive Jesus as Lord in their life. Sometimes they preach a system--Acts 2:38-39--but then drop them off to find their way from there and have not built a foundation first. It is scary and a good reason why people may not stick around for the long haul.

[Sherri]

I think that it makes it user friendly. Meaning that one doesn't have a preconceived notion before coming or they write it off without a chance. I have seen churches be up front with what they believe and they are smaller churches. I have seen churches soften it up and they are typically larger, IMO. Once a person is in a service and feels the spirit move it becomes contagious and they want it, but if they were to read 'tongues' and other things it can scare a person and they not even darken the doors of the church.
I don't know, it's worked for us. It's definitely on our website and in the statement of faith, and we've grown like crazy.

[Jermyn Davidson]

Alex, I was almost thrown into the tank my first week going to an OP church.

In hindsight I wish they would have taught me more about why I was being baptized.

Seemed it was more for them so they could say, " baptized another one last night"

I broght a friend to that same church. He prayed thru and was told to bring a change of clothes so he could baptized (on his second time at this church)

He did not bring clothing with him. He was rebuked from the pulpit and told he needed to yeild to God and be baptized or he would loose his mind.

My friend did not come back to church with me any more after that....Go Figure.

It's appropriate that new folks be taught a bit before being rushed to the water.



Taught what?

Your statement is NOT does not fit the pattern for the New Testament church.

Repentance and baptism go hand in hand.

There are actual instances in the Bible where folks are converted but they do not experience the Holy Ghost by speaking in tongues right away.

However, EVERY CONVERSION EXPERIENCE depicts the immediate baptism of the new believer, using a variation of the wording, "in the Name of Jesus."

Christian churches should not deviate from this and this is why one of the reasons why I am not completely "at home" at the COGIC.

[Shawn]

Taught what?

Your statement is NOT does not fit the pattern for the New Testament church.

Repentance and baptism go hand in hand.

There are actual instances in the Bible where folks are converted but they do not experience the Holy Ghost by speaking in tongues right away.

However, EVERY CONVERSION EXPERIENCE depicts the immediate baptism of the new believer, using a variation of the wording, "in the Name of Jesus."

Christian churches should not deviate from this and this is why one of the reasons why I am not completely "at home" at the COGIC.

I see what your saying. Biblically conversions took placed just like you said in Acts. But also some people set in truth for years before being baptized, some grow up in it, and many it hit from nowhere. Didn't even see it coming.....wow.

Believe me, I'm not complaing.

[DAN' I' EL]

I dan' i' el wrote this. I have read each of the above statements. All of which say a lot but not enough. May i sak. Doesn't scripture state there will be a falling awsy. That tongues, wonders, miracles will stop. The falling away in the last time will take place. Love and compassion is need. I agree. But what type or kind of love? The love that is soft and doesn't make a person feel as though sh/he should have to change anything in their life to be in unity with the father and his words. The people that teach there will be a great revivel. Must not hsve read those scriptures that state there will be a falling away. Those that teach we must show love to a group of people thst are no more than a cobra ready to strike. Love yes. But to be ignorant enough to think a cobra that has been milked isn't ready to kill it's prey. Hasn't much understanding about poison snakes. A religion that makes statements to other religions. To either deny your faith and bcome one of us or die. Is like the snake. Oneness apostolics that teach to only show love. Without teaching the truth aren't loving. As john called the baptist and even the messiah. Taught with harsh words of their time. Calling the unlearned leaders of their time vipers, snakes, hypocrites, whited walls and their moouths were open sepulcher full of dead mens bones. The forum doesn't allow such name calling on here. For it is considered attacking that person. Yet not only did the messiah and john attack but so did the prophets and the appostles. That ssid i have heard mr. Irvin baxter, l. Stoneking and even the head of the upci state they believe in three gods. As mr k. Carpenter head of aljc stating there are three whats or it's in the godhead. Not three persons. I haven't found one verse that even attemts to show three of anything in the godhead.
There is a falling away from the truth. Starting with the name that is used. There are manuscripts and seals dating back to the first temple era. That prove what the name the hebrews called on their god by. I would ask all you; what is ment by loving your brother as i have loved you. And the only way that the gentiles/heathen/sinners. Will know you are my children/disciples is for you to love your brother. When people teach to love the sinners as a brothe it is false teaching from what i have read. You that think loving the lost is taking the serpent into you home/country/state is loving them. You are not understanding the word. It is like believing in and doing the catholic teachings. But spelling it with a small c to say it's ok i speld it with a small c. So i am not realy a catholic. Just like saying if i let the poor here starve to help those in another country i am showing i love god and my brother. The prophets johncalled the baptist the messiah nor paul went to the gentiles if you truly read the words. Paul went into the synagogues daily arguing with the hebrews then to the gentiles. That would listen. The world nor other faiths are your broths. If the so-called oneness would truly love their own broths as they do the heathen. They would be living in the love that is taught in the scriptures.

[CC1]

Daniel,

You do realize you have posted on a thread that is from 2008 right?

As far as your statement that Lee Stoneking and the "head of the UPC" (I assume you mean David Bernard) believe in three Gods that is absurd and you lose all credibility with that statement without going any further into your post.

[Evang.Benincasa]

I dan' i' el wrote this. I have read each of the above statements. All of which say a lot but not enough. May i sak. Doesn't scripture state there will be a falling awsy. That tongues, wonders, miracles will stop. The falling away in the last time will take place. Love and compassion is need. I agree. But what type or kind of love? The love that is soft and doesn't make a person feel as though sh/he should have to change anything in their life to be in unity with the father and his words. The people that teach there will be a great revivel. Must not hsve read those scriptures that state there will be a falling away. Those that teach we must show love to a group of people thst are no more than a cobra ready to strike. Love yes. But to be ignorant enough to think a cobra that has been milked isn't ready to kill it's prey. Hasn't much understanding about poison snakes. A religion that makes statements to other religions. To either deny your faith and bcome one of us or die. Is like the snake. Oneness apostolics that teach to only show love. Without teaching the truth aren't loving. As john called the baptist and even the messiah. Taught with harsh words of their time. Calling the unlearned leaders of their time vipers, snakes, hypocrites, whited walls and their moouths were open sepulcher full of dead mens bones. The forum doesn't allow such name calling on here. For it is considered attacking that person. Yet not only did the messiah and john attack but so did the prophets and the appostles. That ssid i have heard mr. Irvin baxter, l. Stoneking and even the head of the upci state they believe in three gods. As mr k. Carpenter head of aljc stating there are three whats or it's in the godhead. Not three persons. I haven't found one verse that even attemts to show three of anything in the godhead.
There is a falling away from the truth. Starting with the name that is used. There are manuscripts and seals dating back to the first temple era. That prove what the name the hebrews called on their god by. I would ask all you; what is ment by loving your brother as i have loved you. And the only way that the gentiles/heathen/sinners. Will know you are my children/disciples is for you to love your brother. When people teach to love the sinners as a brothe it is false teaching from what i have read. You that think loving the lost is taking the serpent into you home/country/state is loving them. You are not understanding the word. It is like believing in and doing the catholic teachings. But spelling it with a small c to say it's ok i speld it with a small c. So i am not realy a catholic. Just like saying if i let the poor here starve to help those in another country i am showing i love god and my brother. The prophets johncalled the baptist the messiah nor paul went to the gentiles if you truly read the words. Paul went into the synagogues daily arguing with the hebrews then to the gentiles. That would listen. The world nor other faiths are your broths. If the so-called oneness would truly love their own broths as they do the heathen. They would be living in the love that is taught in the scriptures.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/iKtJwo2kRcM/mqdefault.jpg

[n david]

Good grief, reading that was like nails on a chalkboard.

[good samaritan]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/iKtJwo2kRcM/mqdefault.jpg

you are awefull.

[Michael The Disciple]

I like statements of faith. The more detailed the better. When I am searching to contact a Church there are things that make or break it for me. I dont want to drive 50 miles to a Church and find out they oppose what I believe.

[CC1]

I like statements of faith. The more detailed the better. When I am searching to contact a Church there are things that make or break it for me. I dont want to drive 50 miles to a Church and find out they oppose what I believe.

I bet is is not a easy task finding a church that believes what you do! LOL

[Evang.Benincasa]

I bet is is not a easy task finding a church that believes what you do! LOL

https://media2.giphy.com/media/ph6ewybUlGbW8/200.gif

[CC1]

Good grief, reading that was like nails on a chalkboard.

If we had a "like" button for posts I would have hit it for this one! LOL

[Michael The Disciple]

I bet is is not a easy task finding a church that believes what you do! LOL

You got that right.