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Praxeas
02-12-2007, 08:45 PM
I've heard Trinitarians refer to this in Revelation as proof that God is a Trinity because otherwise why would the devil seek to conterfeit a trinity...

To begin with that is circular reasoning. This assumes that the intention was to conterfeit something in Triad form and not rather the Anti-Christ conterfeiting the real Christ

Second...since when is the Trinity ever described as a world wide leader and then a prophet that gave him power? Hmmm?

Third...if that is the case then maybe John was the Holy Ghost?

Fourth....we have two separate people....if we conclude there are three separate individuals...not merely three distinct individuals within the same nature/being, then what the Un-Holy Trininity really is is three gods.

Trinitarianism as defined by them is three persons who share the same one nature/being where as Tritheism is three persons who have their own being/nature...three beings. In Revelation we do not have three persons sharing the same body nor the same divine essence.

Thus this argument is really detrimental to the Trinity if one is going to insist on this unholy Trinity idea...

Chan
02-13-2007, 10:12 AM
I've heard Trinitarians refer to this in Revelation as proof that God is a Trinity because otherwise why would the devil seek to conterfeit a trinity...

To begin with that is circular reasoning. This assumes that the intention was to conterfeit something in Triad form and not rather the Anti-Christ conterfeiting the real Christ

Second...since when is the Trinity ever described as a world wide leader and then a prophet that gave him power? Hmmm?

Third...if that is the case then maybe John was the Holy Ghost?

Fourth....we have two separate people....if we conclude there are three separate individuals...not merely three distinct individuals within the same nature/being, then what the Un-Holy Trininity really is is three gods.

Trinitarianism as defined by them is three persons who share the same one nature/being where as Tritheism is three persons who have their own being/nature...three beings. In Revelation we do not have three persons sharing the same body nor the same divine essence.

Thus this argument is really detrimental to the Trinity if one is going to insist on this unholy Trinity idea...
Having studied Bible prophecy myself, I have to say I'm not convinced there is this so-called "unholy trinity" and I most certainly do not believe Satan is trying to counterfeit what is understood by modern Trinitarians to be "the trinity." In order for Satan to counterfeit the Trinity, there would have to be one "satanic" substance/essence/being (ousia or hypostasis) that is shared by Satan, the Antichrist and the False Prophet. From my reading of Bible prophecy, I don't get the impression that the False Prophet is incarnated by Satan or otherwise has some sort of ontological connection to Satan.

Praxeas
02-13-2007, 01:00 PM
Having studied Bible prophecy myself, I have to say I'm not convinced there is this so-called "unholy trinity" and I most certainly do not believe Satan is trying to counterfeit what is understood by modern Trinitarians to be "the trinity." In order for Satan to counterfeit the Trinity, there would have to be one "satanic" substance/essence/being (ousia or hypostasis) that is shared by Satan, the Antichrist and the False Prophet. From my reading of Bible prophecy, I don't get the impression that the False Prophet is incarnated by Satan or otherwise has some sort of ontological connection to Satan.
Exactly...I wonder if Thomas Trinitarian is gonna show up

Arphaxad
02-14-2007, 06:34 PM
Just one question can settle the godhead issue: Is Jesus in the Godhead, or is the Godhead in Jesus?
answer: For in Him (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily-Colossians 2:9
Does it say anywhere in the Bible that Jesus is just a part of the Godhead?

Chan
02-15-2007, 09:49 AM
Just one question can settle the godhead issue: Is Jesus in the Godhead, or is the Godhead in Jesus?
answer: For in Him (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily-Colossians 2:9
Does it say anywhere in the Bible that Jesus is just a part of the Godhead?
Neither does it say that Jesus IS the Godhead. By the way, the 17th century English word Godhead means nothing more than the modern English word godhood and the Greek words translated "Godhood" in the three KJV New Testament passages mean (depending on the passage) deity, divine nature, divinity, or godhood.

sola gratia
03-14-2007, 08:49 AM
right on

Joelel
03-14-2007, 11:45 AM
Just one question can settle the godhead issue: Is Jesus in the Godhead, or is the Godhead in Jesus?
answer: For in Him (Jesus) dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily-Colossians 2:9
Does it say anywhere in the Bible that Jesus is just a part of the Godhead?

Hi Arp,Then I give you this question ? The God head is IN Jesus by the Spirit of God IN him and the Spirit is in us also,Does that make us God too ? Also when Jesus died,did the Spirit of God IN Jesus die ?

Joelel
03-14-2007, 11:54 AM
Neither does it say that Jesus IS the Godhead. By the way, the 17th century English word Godhead means nothing more than the modern English word godhood and the Greek words translated "Godhood" in the three KJV New Testament passages mean (depending on the passage) deity, divine nature, divinity, or godhood.

Hi Chan,Right,It don't say Jesus is the Godhead neither,It says the Godhead is IN Jesus,BIG differance.My bible teaches me ONLY the word of God was made flesh and the Spirit of God is IN Jesus.When Jesus died ONLY the word of God died,not the Spirit of God.

Chan
03-14-2007, 12:19 PM
Hi Arp,Then I give you this question ? The God head is IN Jesus by the Spirit of God IN him and the Spirit is in us also,Does that make us God too ? Also when Jesus died,did the Spirit of God IN Jesus die ?
Since "Godhead" means nothing more than "godhood" or divinity, i.e. the state of being divine, your question becomes the one addressed in Nestorius' objection to the Church's use of theotokos (God-bearer) in reference to Mary: was it God that died on the cross (thus making him not God since God is incapable of dying) or was it a human being that died on the cross (God's only begotten Son)? Nestorius was accused of heresy for insisting that those things pertaining to Jesus' divinity do not pertain to his humanity and those things pertaining to Jesus' humanity do not pertain to His divinity.

Chan
03-14-2007, 12:22 PM
Hi Chan,Right,It don't say Jesus is the Godhead neither,It says the Godhead is IN Jesus,BIG differance.My bible teaches me ONLY the word of God was made flesh and the Spirit of God is IN Jesus.When Jesus died ONLY the word of God died,not the Spirit of God.
Yes, this is true. Of course, the word "Godhead" is nothing more than a 17th century English word that means "godhood" or the state of being divine.

The Bible is clear that it was the logos (not merely spoken word but the thought and power behind that word - it is what the Jews understood as the memra or revealed essence of God) that became flesh not God in all His fullness (though all the fullness of deity did dwell in the flesh that the logos became).

sola gratia
03-14-2007, 12:47 PM
Nestorius was accused of heresy for insisting that those things pertaining to Jesus' divinity do not pertain to his humanity and those things pertaining to Jesus' humanity do not pertain to His divinity.

What are your thoughts on this?

Chan
03-14-2007, 12:57 PM
What are your thoughts on this?I agree with Nestorius.

Joelel
03-14-2007, 02:32 PM
Yes, this is true. Of course, the word "Godhead" is nothing more than a 17th century English word that means "godhood" or the state of being divine.

The Bible is clear that it was the logos (not merely spoken word but the thought and power behind that word - it is what the Jews understood as the memra or revealed essence of God) that became flesh not God in all His fullness (though all the fullness of deity did dwell in the flesh that the logos became).

Hi Chan,This is why I and we must make a separation between the Spirit of God and his word.The word of God that was made flesh is the Son and is flesh and blood.It's the same with my word,it is mine or me but it is not spirit.So the question is ? Did God the Father die ? Yes the word of the Father God died but not his Spirit.The thing is,I'm part of my natural mother and father.Am I them ? Yes I'm a part of each of them even though i'm separate from them.When i became separate from them is when i became their Son.So Jesus the Son is the word part of his father and when he became separate from the Spirit he became the Son.He is no longer the Father but he is part of the father. The thing is most of the trinity or the oneness don't understand this.The thing the trinity has wrong is their baptism and some other points.There is points the oneness have wrong too.

Chan
03-16-2007, 02:22 PM
Hi Chan,This is why I and we must make a separation between the Spirit of God and his word.The word of God that was made flesh is the Son and is flesh and blood.It's the same with my word,it is mine or me but it is not spirit.So the question is ? Did God the Father die ? Yes the word of the Father God died but not his Spirit.The thing is,I'm part of my natural mother and father.Am I them ? Yes I'm a part of each of them even though i'm separate from them.When i became separate from them is when i became their Son.So Jesus the Son is the word part of his father and when he became separate from the Spirit he became the Son.He is no longer the Father but he is part of the father. The thing is most of the trinity or the oneness don't understand this.The thing the trinity has wrong is their baptism and some other points.There is points the oneness have wrong too.This separation is the kind of separation Nestorius insisted on when he said the things pertaining to Jesus' divinity do not pertain to His humanity and the things pertaining to His humanity do not pertain to His divinity.

Joelel
03-16-2007, 10:01 PM
This separation is the kind of separation Nestorius insisted on when he said the things pertaining to Jesus' divinity do not pertain to His humanity and the things pertaining to His humanity do not pertain to His divinity.

Hi Chan,Who is Nestorius? Never herd of him.I see the divinity in Jesus.1 Cor.5:19: To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.Rom.8:[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you

Chan
03-17-2007, 12:34 PM
Hi Chan,Who is Nestorius? Never herd of him.I see the divinity in Jesus.1 Cor.5:19: To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.Rom.8:[11] But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in youNestorius, in Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language), Νεστόριος (c. 386 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/386)–c. 451 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/451)) was Archbishop of Constantinople (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriarch_of_Constantinople) from 10 April (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_10)428 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/428) to 22 June (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/June_22)431 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/431). He received his clerical training as a pupil of Theodore of Mopsuestia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodore_of_Mopsuestia) in Antioch (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antioch) and gained a reputation for his sermons that led to his enthronement by Theodosius II (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodosius_II) as Archbishop (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbishop) following the death of Sisinnius I (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archbishop_Sisinnius_I_of_Constantinople) in 428.
Nestorius is considered the originator of the Christological (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christology) belief known as Nestorianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nestorianism), which emerged when he began preaching against the title Theotokos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theotokos) (in Greek (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greek_language), Θεοτόκος) or Mother of God, an appellation for Mary, the mother of Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary%2C_the_mother_of_Jesus). He quickly met with antagonism from the bishop, Cyril of Alexandria (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_of_Alexandria). Alongside the Christological debate, other factors were to come into play in the controversy that would ensue, including a political struggle between the supporters of the See of Alexandria and the See of Antioch, the influence of the Emperor over the See of Constantinople, and the patriarchal primacy of the Pope.
The theological debate centered on the use of the title "Mother of God" (Theotokos (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theotokos)/Θεοτόκος) for the Virgin Mary (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Virgin_Mary), which Nestorius did not recognize, preferring in his sermons, "Mother of Christ" (Christotokos/Χριστοτόκος/) on the grounds that the former title compromised Jesus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus)' humanity. Cyril countered that it was Nestorius who was actually denying the reality of the Incarnation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarnation_%28Christianity%29), by making Jesus Christ into two different persons, one human and one divine, in one body.

Nestorianism taught that the human and divine essences of Christ are separate and it was concluded (by Cyril and others) that Nestorius was saying there are two persons: the man Jesus Christ and the divine Logos, which dwelt in the man. Nestorians rejected such terminology as "God suffered" or "God was crucified", because the humanity of Jesus Christ which suffered is separate from his divinity.

His opponents accused him of dividing Christ into two persons: they claimed that proposing that God the Word did not suffer and die on the cross, while Jesus the man did, or that God the Word was omniscient, while Jesus the man had limited knowledge, implied two separate persons with separate experiences. Nestorius responded that he believed that Christ was indeed one person (Greek: ''prosopon'' - more properly "persona").

MrsMcD
03-20-2007, 06:34 AM
Speaking of the trinity, I have a question.

A doctrine statement says "We believe in one God, eternally existing in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

So the third person is suppose to be the Holy Spirit. How do people believe that the Holy Spirit is a person? What do people mean by this?

sola gratia
03-20-2007, 07:38 AM
I agree the term is tough to understand - but only if you fail to comprehend the meaning of the word "person"

In the trinitarian terms - this word has been debated since its use - which was as early as the 200's - The term "persons" is simply to denote distinction, and a sense of individuality. In the manner that we see so much is given to each "manifestation" such as the Father loving the Son and the Son loving the Father for instance - Jesus tells us of the love that exists between Father and Son... meaning Himself and the Father - we then have certain texts that say things such as "it seemed good to us and to the Holy Spirit" noting a form of distinction - giving the Spirit some individuality...

So persons does not mean flesh and blood - like we think of - simply distinction.... Let me supply a reference: From a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary

Trinity (Triunity) of God
by
J. Hampton Keathley III

Person: In speaking of the Triunity, the term “person” is not used in same way it is in ordinary usage in which it means an identity completely distinct from other persons. Actually the word persons tends to detract from the unity of the Trinity. According to the teaching of Scripture, the three Persons are inseparable, interdependent, and eternally united in one Divine Being.

It is evident that the word “person” is not ideal for the purpose. Orthodox writers have struggled over this term. Some have opted for the term subsistence (the mode or quality of existence), hence, “God has three substances.” Most have continued to use persons because we have not been able to find a better term. “The word substance speaks of God’s essential nature or being and subsistence describes His mode or quality of existence.”


Hopefully that helps to better explain the position - its quite valid actually - OP's have demonized to place where we/they - whatever can no longer fathom it - despite biblical implication that are clearly present

Joelel
03-20-2007, 08:07 AM
Speaking of the trinity, I have a question.

A doctrine statement says "We believe in one God, eternally existing in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

So the third person is suppose to be the Holy Spirit. How do people believe that the Holy Spirit is a person? What do people mean by this?

Hi MisMcD,I think over the years because of the way the trinites use the word persons it has picked up a new meaning.The last thing i heard is the word person don't mean a human person in the use of the word.I think it's an improper use of the word.The bible don't say they are persons.The proper word to us would be three manifestations.The thing I don't understand about what the trinity teaches is if the three are one God then you think they would see that these three has one name.

Are Father Son and Holy Ghost names? No,They are titles. Jesus said to baptize in the name. What is the Son's name? It's Jesus, Isn't It?

Jesus didn't come in his own name.Jesus Said In 1 John 5 ;43. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive.( Here we find Jesus came in his Fathers name ,So his Father's name is Jesus ? )

The Father sent the Holy Ghost in his Son's name.John 14:26. But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, .( Here we find The Father Sent the Holy Ghost In Jesus name,So the Holy Ghost name Is Jesus.)

Eph.3:014 For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, 003:015 Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named, ( Here we find the whole family is named after the Father.( So Jesus Is A family name and is the name of the Father Son And Holy Ghost.)

Who did the Son inherit his name from?You don't inherit something from yourself.Heb.1:004 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they. ( We find here Jesus Inherited his name from the Father. What name does a Son Inherit? The family name.)

This is why the disciples baptized in Jesus name,read all though the book of Acts.When the Holy Ghost was first given the Apostle Peter told them this. Acts2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ FOR THE REMISSION of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 2:39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call

Praxeas
03-20-2007, 12:35 PM
Speaking of the trinity, I have a question.

A doctrine statement says "We believe in one God, eternally existing in three persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit."

So the third person is suppose to be the Holy Spirit. How do people believe that the Holy Spirit is a person? What do people mean by this?
There believe there are three individuals....dudes...three of them. The word Holy Spirit does not refer to God's essence but is the name of the third dude, yeah. :happydance

MrsMcD
03-20-2007, 01:05 PM
There believe there are three individuals....dudes...three of them. The word Holy Spirit does not refer to God's essence but is the name of the third dude, yeah. :happydance

Are you serious? Do some people really believe the Holy Spirit is actually a person also?

Praxeas
03-20-2007, 01:27 PM
Are you serious? Do some people really believe the Holy Spirit is actually a person also?
Most Trinitarians believe the Holy Spirit is a third person of the Trinity.

Chan
03-21-2007, 09:51 AM
Are you serious? Do some people really believe the Holy Spirit is actually a person also?
Many modern Trinitarians believe exactly that.

Chan
03-21-2007, 09:52 AM
I agree the term is tough to understand - but only if you fail to comprehend the meaning of the word "person"

In the trinitarian terms - this word has been debated since its use - which was as early as the 200's - The term "persons" is simply to denote distinction, and a sense of individuality. In the manner that we see so much is given to each "manifestation" such as the Father loving the Son and the Son loving the Father for instance - Jesus tells us of the love that exists between Father and Son... meaning Himself and the Father - we then have certain texts that say things such as "it seemed good to us and to the Holy Spirit" noting a form of distinction - giving the Spirit some individuality...

So persons does not mean flesh and blood - like we think of - simply distinction.... Let me supply a reference: From a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary

Trinity (Triunity) of God
by
J. Hampton Keathley III

Person: In speaking of the Triunity, the term “person” is not used in same way it is in ordinary usage in which it means an identity completely distinct from other persons. Actually the word persons tends to detract from the unity of the Trinity. According to the teaching of Scripture, the three Persons are inseparable, interdependent, and eternally united in one Divine Being.

It is evident that the word “person” is not ideal for the purpose. Orthodox writers have struggled over this term. Some have opted for the term subsistence (the mode or quality of existence), hence, “God has three substances.” Most have continued to use persons because we have not been able to find a better term. “The word substance speaks of God’s essential nature or being and subsistence describes His mode or quality of existence.”


Hopefully that helps to better explain the position - its quite valid actually - OP's have demonized to place where we/they - whatever can no longer fathom it - despite biblical implication that are clearly presentActually, there is a better term than "person," the English/Latin word "persona."

MrsMcD
04-25-2007, 09:03 AM
Someone on this forum said that "persons" doesn't mean actual separate people. Would you say these people believe in three different persons?

GOD: We believe there is only One true, eternally existent God. He exists in three co-equal persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The triune God is the Creator and Sustainer of all things, and is worthy of worship and obedience. -Deut. 6:4-5; Genesis 1:31, Luke 3:21-22; Matthew 28:18-20, Rev. 4:11

Scott Hutchinson
04-25-2007, 10:34 AM
The whole thing to me hinges on that eternal sonship doctrine ,which Jesus did not exist as a Son till His birth.GAL.4:4
JOHN 3:16 Teaches me that God became a Son through his virgin birth.
Since Jesus Christ was God manifest in Human flesh ,God became a Son or He sent Himself in the form of a son.

Praxeas
04-25-2007, 12:10 PM
Someone on this forum said that "persons" doesn't mean actual separate people. Would you say these people believe in three different persons?

GOD: We believe there is only One true, eternally existent God. He exists in three co-equal persons - Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The triune God is the Creator and Sustainer of all things, and is worthy of worship and obedience. -Deut. 6:4-5; Genesis 1:31, Luke 3:21-22; Matthew 28:18-20, Rev. 4:11
People refers to human persons. Persons refers to the individual self which could be a human, God, angel etc etc

Chan
05-02-2007, 12:37 PM
The whole thing to me hinges on that eternal sonship doctrine ,which Jesus did not exist as a Son till His birth.GAL.4:4
JOHN 3:16 Teaches me that God became a Son through his virgin birth.
Since Jesus Christ was God manifest in Human flesh ,God became a Son or He sent Himself in the form of a son.But since God exists outside of time, everything is just one eternal now to Him - He is not bound by the constraints of past, present or future. Thus, in the same sense that Jesus was slain from before the foundation of the world, could not Jesus have also been begotten from before the foundation of the world?

Chan
05-02-2007, 12:39 PM
People refers to human persons. Persons refers to the individual self which could be a human, God, angel etc etcWhich, of course, raises the issue of whether the term "persons" is appropriate.

lvslv
02-02-2012, 11:17 PM
I think what this scripture is referring to is the unholy trinity of isis , osirus & horacce,the eye on your dollarbill,isis was worshiped in babylon,shes also standing in new york harbor,the statue of libertas, you can't have freedom outside of the Way the Truth, and the life,Praise Jesus name! This unholy trinity is also called the original three,A symbol of this is three horizontal lines,usuualy red,its very prevalent in the music industry these days.In babylon they had a famous gate called the gate of ishtar,it was also referred to as the freedom gate,got a new york quarter check it out.in baby lo called ishtar,in egypt isis,in rome libertas,in the usa the statue of liberty.May the One True Holy Righteous God & the Lord Jesus have mercy on us all.fyi if you've ever wondered who the (queen of heaven is,bingo, ) the Saints of the Most High must be oiled & watching

Jay
02-02-2012, 11:38 PM
I think what this scripture is referring to is the unholy trinity of isis , osirus & horacce,the eye on your dollarbill,isis was worshiped in babylon,shes also standing in new york harbor,the statue of libertas, you can't have freedom outside of the Way the Truth, and the life,Praise Jesus name! This unholy trinity is also called the original three,A symbol of this is three horizontal lines,usuualy red,its very prevalent in the music industry these days.In babylon they had a famous gate called the gate of ishtar,it was also referred to as the freedom gate,got a new york quarter check it out.in baby lo called ishtar,in egypt isis,in rome libertas,in the usa the statue of liberty.May the One True Holy Righteous God & the Lord Jesus have mercy on us all.fyi if you've ever wondered who the (queen of heaven is,bingo, ) the Saints of the Most High must be oiled & watching



Actually, the Scripture being referenced is about the Anti-christ, the False Prophet, and Satan. Their explanation is that Satan =the Father, the Anti-christ=the Son, and the False Prophet=the Holy Ghost.

However, I have a problem with this comparison. The False Prophet would actually be better compared with John the Baptist who was the forerunner for Christ. This means that the Anti-christ who will be indwelt by the devil is meant to be the reverse of Jesus Christ, being indwelt by Satan.

eyesopened
02-11-2012, 08:49 PM
I don't know about an un-holy trinity cause there would have to be a Holy trinity first and if somebody wants to use satan's desires to try an imitate God it certainly does not require a trinity, because the facts are : satan is the father of lies, the spirit of iniquity and some day the fullness of who he is will indwell the son of perdition who is also known as the anti-christ , and since the word anti means "opposite of" this looks like more proof of oneness instead, that is unless you believe that satan will someday be able to accomplish that which trinitarians say that God did not .

The Matt
02-11-2012, 09:37 PM
Three persons...three in one...tri...trin...*counts on fingers* is the answer twelve?

RandyWayne
02-12-2012, 09:12 AM
To me the unholy trinity is ketchup, yellow mustard, and pickles.

The HOLY trinity is Dijon mustard, bacon, and red onions!

(On your burger!)

seekerman
02-12-2012, 11:19 AM
Finally, a thread discussing the Godhead!! All this is so interesting because it's never been discussed before.

Praxeas
02-12-2012, 02:23 PM
this thread is over 4 years old

bertcarring
02-18-2012, 01:38 AM
I've heard Trinitarians refer to this in Revelation as proof that God is a Trinity because otherwise why would the devil seek to conterfeit a trinity...

To begin with that is circular reasoning. This assumes that the intention was to conterfeit something in Triad form and not rather the Anti-Christ conterfeiting the real Christ

Second...since when is the Trinity ever described as a world wide leader and then a prophet that gave him power? Hmmm?

Third...if that is the case then maybe John was the Holy Ghost?

Fourth....we have two separate people....if we conclude there are three separate individuals...not merely three distinct individuals within the same nature/being, then what the Un-Holy Trininity really is is three gods.

Trinitarianism as defined by them is three persons who share the same one nature/being where as Tritheism is three persons who have their own being/nature...three beings. In Revelation we do not have three persons sharing the same body nor the same divine essence.

Thus this argument is really detrimental to the Trinity if one is going to insist on this unholy Trinity idea...

God is a Spirit.

There are Seven Spirits of God.