Name or Person?

[Praxeas]

Did God's PERSON dwell in the Hebrew temple? Did HE dwell there? I ask because I have always noticed that the bible says "name"

Deu 12:5 But you shall seek the place that the LORD your God will choose out of all your tribes to put his name and make his habitation there. There you shall go,

Deu 12:11 then to the place that the LORD your God will choose, to make his name dwell there, there you shall bring all that I command you: your burnt offerings and your sacrifices, your tithes and the contribution that you present, and all your finest vow offerings that you vow to the LORD.

Is "name" synonymous with "person"?

Look at this

How many persons did they know where there in Acts 1?

Act 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples and said, (the number of names together was about a hundred and twenty,)

Now look at a different version

Act 1:15 In those days Peter stood up among the brothers (the company of persons was in all about 120) and said,

Look at Revelation

Rev 3:4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments. And they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.

What do you think?

[nahkoe]

Check out what Thayer's lexicon says about the word used for name. The part I find really interesting is the 2 that's quite aways down. Or rather what follows that. :)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G3686&t=KJV

Did God's PERSON dwell in the Hebrew temple? Did HE dwell there? I ask because I have always noticed that the bible says "name"

Deu 12:5 But you shall seek the place that the LORD your God will choose out of all your tribes to put his name and make his habitation there. There you shall go,

Deu 12:11 then to the place that the LORD your God will choose, to make his name dwell there, there you shall bring all that I command you: your burnt offerings and your sacrifices, your tithes and the contribution that you present, and all your finest vow offerings that you vow to the LORD.

Is "name" synonymous with "person"?

Look at this

How many persons did they know where there in Acts 1?

Act 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples and said, (the number of names together was about a hundred and twenty,)

Now look at a different version

Act 1:15 In those days Peter stood up among the brothers (the company of persons was in all about 120) and said,

Look at Revelation

Rev 3:4 You have a few names even in Sardis who have not defiled their garments. And they will walk with Me in white, for they are worthy.

What do you think?

[pelathais]

I think that while God is omnipresent, there is a particular presence of God that can exist in places. I believe that is what is meant by the passages you cite. Like Nahkoe points out, the "name" wasn't just having God hang his shingle outside a particular building. He was there in a way that was distinct from His presence being simultaneously elsewhere.

[Praxeas]

I think that while God is omnipresent, there is a particular presence of God that can exist in places. I believe that is what is meant by the passages you cite. Like Nahkoe points out, the "name" wasn't just having God hang his shingle outside a particular building. He was there in a way that was distinct from His presence being simultaneously elsewhere.
Im not sure you all are getting the point so let me rephrase. God "being there" in the temple was expressed by saying His name would be there. This must be an idiomatic way of saying something to that effect as evidenced by the other two verses shown.

The point wasn't "Gee, God made his home there" lol...the point was the use of "name" was an idiomatic expressive way of saying "the number of people present" or even "God was personally present"....

Again, see how the word name is used in the other two examples

[pelathais]

I think I see your point. I had never made the association with the usage of "names" in Acts and Revelations as you cited with the usage as in the place where the Lord would "put His name..." That's interesting, what else ya got?

[Praxeas]

I think I see your point. I had never made the association with the usage of "names" in Acts and Revelations as you cited with the usage as in the place where the Lord would "put His name..." That's interesting, what else ya got?
That is it so far. I saw the two in the NT before. I think I made the association before but I was just reading the passage yesterday in Deut and noticed it again.

Certainly twice in the NT might show this was an idomatic way of expressing Person.

When we ask "who are you"...the answer is not "Im a person" but rather "I am so and so" giving the name. Names were characteristic of the person they were attacked to. Such as Abraham, father of many.

[nahkoe]

Im not sure you all are getting the point so let me rephrase. God "being there" in the temple was expressed by saying His name would be there. This must be an idiomatic way of saying something to that effect as evidenced by the other two verses shown.

The point wasn't "Gee, God made his home there" lol...the point was the use of "name" was an idiomatic expressive way of saying "the number of people present" or even "God was personally present"....

Again, see how the word name is used in the other two examples

Because "name" is used for everything that you think of when you think of a person. Did you read what I referred to?

It's not idiomatic, it's just the Hebraic way of thinking.

Here's what I was referring to if it's easier.

By a usage chiefly Hebraistic the name is used for everything which the name covers, everything the thought or feeling of which is roused in the mind by mentioning, hearing, remembering, the name, i.e. for one's rank, authority, interests, pleasure, command, excellences, deeds, etc.

There's more...but you can go read it for yourself. lol

Name isn't just like Henry, George, Anna. It's everything about that person that comes to your mind when you hear their name.

God "being there" in the temple was expressed by saying His name would be there. This must be an idiomatic way of saying something to that effect as evidenced by the other two verses shown.

The point wasn't "Gee, God made his home there" lol...the point was the use of "name" was an idiomatic expressive way of saying "the number of people present" or even "God was personally present"....

Ok, re-reading this...you're saying what I'm saying, I think. Using "name" in Hebrew means everything about that person that comes to mind. So by saying His name would be there, they meant everything about Him would be there. His power, His presence, His authority....etc.

Gesenius' lexicon says this about name.

Name. Specially a celebrated name, fame. Glory. A good name, good reputation. Fame after death, memory. So in the phrases, to destroy, to blot out the name of any person or thing, i.e. to blot out (a people, a city), that even the name and memory may perish from posterity. A monument, by which any one's memory is preserved. The celebrated name of God, the estimation of men concerning God; in the phrase for his name's sake, as his name would lead one to expect. Hence, the glory of God; for my name's sake, lest the glory of the divine name should suffer. To put his name (in any place), i.e. there to fix his abode.

Again, you can read it here if you want to catch the parts I did leave out. I caught the ones I thought were relevant here though.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8034&t=KJV

[Cindy]

Names have meaning, other than to identify us.

The origin of my name is Greek.

The meaning is: from Kynthos.

[SDG]

The Jewish Virtual Library states:

The Significance of Names

In Jewish thought, a name is not merely an arbitrary designation, a random combination of sounds. The name conveys the nature and essence of the thing named. It represents the history and reputation of the being named.
This is not as strange or unfamiliar a concept as it may seem at first glance. In English, we often refer to a person's reputation as his "good name." When a company is sold, one thing that may be sold is the company's "good will," that is, the right to use the company's name. The Hebrew concept of a name is very similar to these ideas.

An example of this usage occurs in Ex. 3:13-22: Moses asks God what His "name" is. Moses is not asking "what should I call you;" rather, he is asking "who are you; what are you like; what have you done." That is clear from God's response. God replies that He is eternal, that He is the God of our ancestors, that He has seen our affliction and will redeem us from bondage.

Another example of this usage is the concepts of chillul Ha-Shem and kiddush Ha-Shem. An act that causes God or Judaism to come into disrespect or a commandment to be disobeyed is often referred to as "chillul Ha-Shem," profanation of The Name. Clearly, we are not talking about a harm done to a word; we are talking about harm to a reputation. Likewise, any deed that increases the respect accorded to God or Judaism is referred to as "kiddush Ha-Shem," sanctification of The Name.

Because a name represents the reputation of the thing named, a name should be treated with the same respect as the thing's reputation. For this reason, God's Names, in all of their forms, are treated with enormous respect and reverence in Judaism.

----------------------------------------

Now if some OPs would get on board with what the Bible says ....

It's not a formula or equation.

[Praxeas]

Because "name" is used for everything that you think of when you think of a person. Did you read what I referred to?

It's not idiomatic, it's just the Hebraic way of thinking.


Wouldn't THAT then make it an idiom? BTW did you read the specific verses I posted where in fact it WAS used as a sort of idiom for "person"?


Here's what I was referring to if it's easier.
By a usage chiefly Hebraistic the name is used for everything which the name covers, everything the thought or feeling of which is roused in the mind by mentioning, hearing, remembering, the name, i.e. for one's rank, authority, interests, pleasure, command, excellences, deeds, etc.
There's more...but you can go read it for yourself. lol

What is your point though? Is this in support of what I posted or against? If against how do you explain those two verses?

Name isn't just like Henry, George, Anna. It's everything about that person that comes to your mind when you hear their name.
Yeeeeesssssss.

Ok, re-reading this...you're saying what I'm saying, I think. Using "name" in Hebrew means everything about that person that comes to mind. So by saying His name would be there, they meant everything about Him would be there. His power, His presence, His authority....etc.
Ding Ding Ding! Ah the light turned on :statbike:



Gesenius' lexicon says this about name.
Name. Specially a celebrated name, fame. Glory. A good name, good reputation. Fame after death, memory. So in the phrases, to destroy, to blot out the name of any person or thing, i.e. to blot out (a people, a city), that even the name and memory may perish from posterity. A monument, by which any one's memory is preserved. The celebrated name of God, the estimation of men concerning God; in the phrase for his name's sake, as his name would lead one to expect. Hence, the glory of God; for my name's sake, lest the glory of the divine name should suffer. To put his name (in any place), i.e. there to fix his abode.
Again, you can read it here if you want to catch the parts I did leave out. I caught the ones I thought were relevant here though.

http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=H8034&t=KJV

In the way it is worded in some of the verses, like what I quoted, it seems to be more than just a memorial. It was used synonymously with His being there present. However he still makes the same point that "there to fix his abode"....

Does not he write his name on us too? Or are we called by His name and yet we know our bodies or His temple...interesting!

[Praxeas]

If name can imple person, then I wonder how that might fit theologically in light of the Trinity and Oneness

[nahkoe]

Wouldn't THAT then make it an idiom? BTW did you read the specific verses I posted where in fact it WAS used as a sort of idiom for "person"?

I did.

I just did some digging, apparently this site considers it to be an idiom, at least sometimes. http://www.ancient-hebrew.org/24_idioms.html

I suppose it is, in a way. But it's just what the word means.

What is your point though? Is this in support of what I posted or against? If against how do you explain those two verses?

For.

In the way it is worded in some of the verses, like what I quoted, it seems to be more than just a memorial. It was used synonymously with His being there present. However he still makes the same point that "there to fix his abode"....

Exactly. If your name is in a place, you are.

Does not he write his name on us too? Or are we called by His name and yet we know our bodies or His temple...interesting!

I have 9 kids in my apartment tonight. lol I'll try to remember I have something I want to think about later. :nutso

[Sister Alvear]

I am finding this quite interesting...

[Arphaxad]

[QUOTE=Daniel Alicea;683736]The Jewish Virtual Library states:

The Significance of Names

In Jewish thought, a name is not merely an arbitrary designation, a random combination of sounds. The name conveys the nature and essence of the thing named. It represents the history and reputation of the being named.


example-"Nabal" in 1 Samuel 25

ARPH:doggyrun

[Praxeas]

nabal? "I will do it when I am ready n abal"?

[Praxeas]

Bump For Daniel

[Praxeas]

BTW Someone was posting on Carm that we were all Arians...never mind what kind of person would make such an asinine assertion. Our History is that we started with Jesus name baptism. That Jesus is the name of Father, Son and Spirit. From there we turned towards modalism.

Hardly arianism. I wonder if some of this had to do with the notion of Name and Person.

[Praxeas]

BUMP!!!!!

[Praxeas]

More

Act 4:12 And there is salvation in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved."

Notice the connection between name and person?

[Praxeas]

Daniel where is that quote????