Ultra Conservatives 'Go Hollywood'

[Terry G.]

Prominent WPF CEO shares lifestyle is one of rich and famous. From elite prestigous golf course closed community mansion home, backyard pool parties, lamborginis, selling church website 'space' subscriptions, weekend getaways to the beach, Cancun, high dollar hotel stays and weekly speaking engagements across the Nation flying first class--Excuse me and Jesus, WHAT am I 'missing'? Has ULTRACON gone Hollywood? Somebody help me understand. Jesus was with the poor, lepers, and not near a grocery store or a Resort. Jesus never had a vacation. Do you feel and share my heartbeat for God? Anyone else notice odd activity among WPF folks? Your opinions, if you please.

[TJJJ]

Prominent WPF CEO shares lifestyle is one of rich and famous. From elite prestigous golf course closed community mansion home, backyard pool parties, lamborginis, selling church website 'space' subscriptions, weekend getaways to the beach, Cancun, high dollar hotel stays and weekly speaking engagements across the Nation flying first class--Excuse me and Jesus, WHAT am I 'missing'? Has ULTRACON gone Hollywood? Somebody help me understand. Jesus was with the poor, lepers, and not near a grocery store or a Resort. Jesus never had a vacation. Do you feel and share my heartbeat for God? Anyone else notice odd activity among WPF folks? Your opinions, if you please.

Terry, this has been going on among the UPCI uppers for a long time. I've been in or around this stuff all my life and seen it. Most of the WPF's come out of that! The only difference between the two is who's on first!

[Sister Alvear]

lol...have you just now found that out...

However in the mist of two different lifestyles dear one God does have people that take up their cross daily, and are a part of what Paul talked about In 2 Cor. 11:25

Are they servants of Christ?—I speak as if insane—I more so; in far more labors, in far more imprisonments, beaten times without number, often in danger of death. 24 Five times I received from the Jews thirty-nine lashes. 25 Three times I was beaten with rods, once I was stoned, three times I was shipwrecked, a night and a day I have spent in the deep. 26 I have been on frequent journeys, in dangers from rivers, dangers from robbers, dangers from my countrymen, dangers from the Gentiles, dangers in the city, dangers in the wilderness, dangers on the sea, dangers among false brethren; 27 I have been in labor and hardship, through many sleepless nights, in hunger and thirst, often without food, in cold and exposure. 28 Apart from such external things, there is the daily pressure on me of concern for all the churches. 29 Who is weak without my being weak? Who is led into sin without my intense concern?
30 If I have to boast, I will boast of what pertains to my weakness. 31 The God and Father of the Lord Jesus, He who is blessed forever, knows that I am not lying...

[Sam]

Prominent WPF CEO shares lifestyle is one of rich and famous. From elite prestigous golf course closed community mansion home, backyard pool parties, lamborginis, selling church website 'space' subscriptions, weekend getaways to the beach, Cancun, high dollar hotel stays and weekly speaking engagements across the Nation flying first class--Excuse me and Jesus, WHAT am I 'missing'? Has ULTRACON gone Hollywood? Somebody help me understand. Jesus was with the poor, lepers, and not near a grocery store or a Resort. Jesus never had a vacation. Do you feel and share my heartbeat for God? Anyone else notice odd activity among WPF folks? Your opinions, if you please.

Could this by any stretch of the imagination be considered "worldly"?

Isn't worldly another word for materialistic?

[brodano]

your just jealous they are blessed and you would probably do the same .. just envy..thats probably why you don't have what they have because God knows how you'll abuse your blessings.

[ILG]

your just jealous they are blessed and you would probably do the same .. just envy..thats probably why you don't have what they have because God knows how you'll abuse your blessings.


Maybe he just doesn't believe in living that way! Maybe he does have the money.

[brodano]

it is still jealousy. and gossip.

[brodano]

Maybe he just doesn't believe in living that way! Maybe he does have the money.

if he has the money give it all to missions and live a humble life...

[mizpeh]

lol...have you just now found that out...

I had no idea!!!:angelsad

[Sister Alvear]

It is very easy to see how the other party spends their money! Hard to see how we do!

[RandyWayne]

Actually this DOES surprise me. I didn't think that the organization was big enough to allow for such lifestyles (granted, no $$$ numbers were actually revealed). But I suppose when you have a doctrine that "all tithes belong to the pastor", as many UC's do, then a relatively small church could support a single family living quite well.

[Praxeas]

it is still jealousy. and gossip.
How do you know it is jealousy and not rather his opinion of how we Christians ought to be based on scriptures?

[ILG]

if he has the money give it all to missions and live a humble life...

I know a pastor who does just that. And if he did not like the high living in the conservative camp it would have nothing to do with "jealousy"!!

[Sister Alvear]

One day beloved ones, we will ALL be called into judgement and our lifestyle will be weighed on scales that will weigh a world that never heard His name ever mentioned...

It will be a JUST balance....

[Terry G.]

God Bless ILG, Mizpeh,Praxeas, Randy, all the ladies, and Sister Aleve. I am Edified by your courageous posts. Let's Continue to Evangelize in spite of any obstacle! Highest Honour is Hear HIM say WELL DONE, MY Good & Faithful Servants! ENTER THE KINGDOM Salvation is not by corruptible silver and gold. Bless!

[Sam]

Prominent WPF CEO shares lifestyle is one of rich and famous. From elite prestigous golf course closed community mansion home, backyard pool parties, lamborginis, selling church website 'space' subscriptions, weekend getaways to the beach, Cancun, high dollar hotel stays and weekly speaking engagements across the Nation flying first class--Excuse me and Jesus, WHAT am I 'missing'? Has ULTRACON gone Hollywood? Somebody help me understand. Jesus was with the poor, lepers, and not near a grocery store or a Resort. Jesus never had a vacation. Do you feel and share my heartbeat for God? Anyone else notice odd activity among WPF folks? Your opinions, if you please.

Jesus told us to seek first the kingdom (or kingship) of God and that where are treasures are that is where our heart is. He also said that a rich man will hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven but it is possible with God's help. I don't know the person being spoken of here. He may indeed be wealthy but, aren't most of us wealthy to someone? God sees his heart and knows what place material goods may have in that heart. We can't see that. A person in a small house, clothes off the rack, and a mid-size car can actually be more materialistic than a person in a mansion, designer clothes, and a luxury vehicle.

[Sister Alvear]

I remember reading somewhere we should write ASHES ONLY across everything we own...

[Terry G.]

Agree. Man of God I Tim 6:11 says But thou o Man of God flee these things, that I named, and follow after Righteousness, GODLINESS, Faith, Love,...Jesus spoke of plowing and looking back- carnal minded, not worthy of Kingdom but death. Ministers are not to live it up carnally.

[edjen01]

Jesus told us to seek first the kingdom (or kingship) of God and that where are treasures are that is where our heart is. He also said that a rich man will hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven but it is possible with God's help. I don't know the person being spoken of here. He may indeed be wealthy but, aren't most of us wealthy to someone? God sees his heart and knows what place material goods may have in that heart. We can't see that. A person in a small house, clothes off the rack, and a mid-size car can actually be more materialistic than a person in a mansion, designer clothes, and a luxury vehicle.

Good post Sam.

Should a Christ-follower feel guilty if they make good financial choices? If they are good stewards and God blesses them? If God blesses a person and they can live a certain lifestyle...why would I want anything less for them? Why not just rejoice with them over the blessings that God has given them...instead of questioning thier motives, Godliness, where-they-live, what-they-ware, etc...

Isn't that like "judging another man's servant"? They belong to God...let Him worry about what they are doing....be happy for them!!

[RandyWayne]

I have never disparaged the income of others simply because it was more than mine. I've always defended the millionaire and their right to NOT be taxed into oblivion if for no other reason than I planned on being one some day myself.

However, there is something elitist about a group of UC preachers slapping themselves on their collective backs, glorying in their authority, while amen'ing each other being do a "double portion", that reminds me somewhat of the auto execs who were begging for money in front of congress -after flying there on their private jets.

[ILG]

I have never disparaged the income of others simply because it was more than mine. I've always defended the millionaire and their right to NOT be taxed into oblivion if for no other reason than I planned on being one some day myself.

However, there is something elitist about a group of UC preachers slapping themselves on their collective backs, glorying in their authority, while amen'ing each other being do a "double portion", that reminds me somewhat of the auto execs who were begging for money in front of congress -after flying there on their private jets.

Yes, I agree.

[oletime]

i thought you said you were best friends with this pastor, its obvious who your talking about since his address is country club drive .you better hope he doesnt read this but even if he doesnt he has young people that do. as matter of fact one of them posts on the wpf website, i dont understand how you can be supposed friends and bash his lifestyle. this is so two faced its not to be believed unless i read it and i just did. im shocked with you !!!

[Sam]

i thought you said you were best friends with this pastor, its obvious who your talking about since his address is country club drive .you better hope he doesnt read this but even if he doesnt he has young people that do. as matter of fact one of them posts on the wpf website, i dont understand how you can be supposed friends and bash his lifestyle. this is so two faced its not to be believed unless i read it and i just did. im shocked with you !!!

Its not two faced if he has said these same things to that pastor's face.

[Moe]

Prominent WPF CEO shares lifestyle is one of rich and famous. From elite prestigous golf course closed community mansion home, backyard pool parties, lamborginis, selling church website 'space' subscriptions, weekend getaways to the beach, Cancun, high dollar hotel stays and weekly speaking engagements across the Nation flying first class--Excuse me and Jesus, WHAT am I 'missing'? Has ULTRACON gone Hollywood? Somebody help me understand. Jesus was with the poor, lepers, and not near a grocery store or a Resort. Jesus never had a vacation. Do you feel and share my heartbeat for God? Anyone else notice odd activity among WPF folks? Your opinions, if you please.


I don't know who you are or if you are in ministry or not, but for the record I would like to clear up a few things. 1. It is NOT just the UPCI or WPF ministry that lives these kinds of life styles, but rather most Charasmatic ministers do also as well as other organizations. It goes with the territory of larger paychecks. Those that pastor large churches do get more perks. For some odd reason most of you seem to think that any pastor who indulges in a better life style is on the same line as Blasphemy. Most of these men from all denominations pastor larger churches and have to deal with more stress than most lines of work. The ONLY thing most of you see is the face they all put on when they walk to the pulpits and have to perform for you. You don't see the sleepless nights as they work out and pray for your problems. You don't see the endless counselling sessions with people who really don't want to live for God or do right. You don't see the hours and hours of preparation they pour into the services. You see the planning and instruction they give to their leadership groups. any most likely, NONE of you were around when they started the church with NOTHING and poured their own personal money into the work of God and gave tirelessly for unthankful people....just to finally be blessed down the road and then some whipper snapper come along and be critical of how they spend their money. Now grant it, there are some that abuse the system but for the most part their are many more that pour themselves into the work of God. So PLEASE do not LUMP them all together in one group. You can single the ones out that abuse the system but don't use terms like "WPF'ers" or "UPCI'ers".

I am UPCI but have MANY Charasmatic pastor friends and know a few that live large (way more them than oneness groups) however they started from nothing and now pastor very large churces. Like any other business, you do get to reap the fruits of your labor just like any other working man. It just so happens that a minister's work is "His Father's Business" So don't judge to harshly when you see them blessed.

I don't think you are jealous just not seeing the whole picture.

May God bless you,

Moe

[Sister Alvear]

One day all will be weighed in the just balance of God....we will know what He thinks about us all....

[oletime]

true dat sam . but there is no way !, since he said in one of his previous posts he was best friends ,which he wouldnt be if he said it to his face lol. right on moe, also i know of some who now own or have sold very successful businesses or have done well in investments of properties, plus the books they have wriiten . some take very little or no money from their churches because of this. i dont believe this pastors church is large enough to support what he has, if what i have been told is true. so bottom line, he is a huge missions and work of god supporter etc and he can spend HIS money anyway he wants. its not a crime to make a profit! we dont live under marxism ! pastors dont take a vow of poverty, despite what it might appear to some pastors good wives!

[Sister Alvear]

It is so easy to see our neighbor...but looking into the mirrow is another story!

[MissBrattified]

Prominent WPF CEO shares lifestyle is one of rich and famous. From elite prestigous golf course closed community mansion home, backyard pool parties, lamborginis, selling church website 'space' subscriptions, weekend getaways to the beach, Cancun, high dollar hotel stays and weekly speaking engagements across the Nation flying first class--Excuse me and Jesus, WHAT am I 'missing'? Has ULTRACON gone Hollywood? Somebody help me understand. Jesus was with the poor, lepers, and not near a grocery store or a Resort. Jesus never had a vacation. Do you feel and share my heartbeat for God? Anyone else notice odd activity among WPF folks? Your opinions, if you please.

Let's take this point by point, shall we?

"elite prestigious golf course" -

If someone has the extra, and they want the exercise, fresh air and sunshine (as opposed to spending hours vegged out on the couch), then I say more power to them. "Elite" & "prestigious" are subjective terms, anyway. Provide us with the actual name of the golf course and the exact dollar amount of membership, and then we can talk. Even then, I'll be hesitant to judge someone else's spending.

"closed community mansion home" -

Okay, let's say they actually have a mansion--maybe they saved money all their lives for it? Who knows? Who cares? As long as they are hospitable with the home God has blessed them with, then they are just fine in my book. It isn't bad to be blessed--you just have to be a good steward.

My husband makes a good salary, + he has a web business on the side. Just going by national averages, we probably make more than the majority of people on this forum, however we pay cash for everything, and you'd be surprised how quickly that money goes out the window by the time you pay bills, house, feed & clothe 6 people, put money toward homeschooling, buy groceries, maintain our 10 acres, etc. There are quite a few people who would look at our income and say, "What? You make too much!" But we put it to good use, and the truth is, we'll account to God for it--not men.

"backyard pool parties," -

You know backyard pool parties are free don't you? :coffee2 By the way, I'm always happy to see Apostolics engaging in physical activity. Too many couch potatoes. Many people would spend that same amount of time vegged out on the couch watching TV. So someone had their friends over to swim instead. Big deal. Good for them. *yawn*


" lamborginis," -

Okay, this one I'll concede. I've never seen the need to buy over-the-top luxury vehicles. It seems like a needless expense to me. However, I'm not opposed to people having nice things if they can afford it and aren't neglecting the kingdom of God in order to acquire it. Since we can't know any of that for sure without addressing it on a very personal level, I'm again hesitant to pass any judgment regarding someone else's spending--even on a "Lamborghini."

"selling church website 'space' subscriptions, weekend getaways to the beach, Cancun, high dollar hotel stays and weekly speaking engagements across the Nation flying first class"

* Good fundraiser
* Nothing wrong with going to the beach. I went a couple of summers ago with my sisters and my (then) 72 year old mother. We had a blast. We split the cost, too--it wasn't that expensive.

* Cancun? Can't you get package deals? Not much more expensive than going to Branson for several days, I'd imagine. Well, maybe a tad more. ;)

* Flying first class--I've never flown first class, but I'd love to do it just once! And I wouldn't feel guilty about it for a MOMENT!!!

Every great now and then I pay to have a massage--$1 per minute--and worth every penny. ;) I buy my son toys he really doesn't NEED--he just wants them. When I buy shoes, I splurge and buy really good ones, because I care about my feet. I buy fresh flowers for $5-$10 a bunch every other week--I don't need them. I just like to have fresh flowers.

We all spend money on frivolous things, okay MOST of us, and some of us have more money to spend than others. I just don't think it's productive to judge someone else's spending. Most things are subjective anyway, and the rest you really don't know as much as you think you know.

[Moe]

Let's take this point by point, shall we?

"elite prestigious golf course" -

If someone has the extra, and they want the exercise, fresh air and sunshine (as opposed to spending hours vegged out on the couch), then I say more power to them. "Elite" & "prestigious" are subjective terms, anyway. Provide us with the actual name of the golf course and the exact dollar amount of membership, and then we can talk. Even then, I'll be hesitant to judge someone else's spending.

"closed community mansion home" -

Okay, let's say they actually have a mansion--maybe they saved money all their lives for it? Who knows? Who cares? As long as they are hospitable with the home God has blessed them with, then they are just fine in my book. It isn't bad to be blessed--you just have to be a good steward.

My husband makes a good salary, + he has a web business on the side. Just going by national averages, we probably make more than the majority of people on this forum, however we pay cash for everything, and you'd be surprised how quickly that money goes out the window by the time you pay bills, house, feed & clothe 6 people, put money toward homeschooling, buy groceries, maintain our 10 acres, etc. There are quite a few people who would look at our income and say, "What? You make too much!" But we put it to good use, and the truth is, we'll account to God for it--not men.

"backyard pool parties," -

You know backyard pool parties are free don't you? :coffee2 By the way, I'm always happy to see Apostolics engaging in physical activity. Too many couch potatoes. Many people would spend that same amount of time vegged out on the couch watching TV. So someone had their friends over to swim instead. Big deal. Good for them. *yawn*


" lamborginis," -

Okay, this one I'll concede. I've never seen the need to buy over-the-top luxury vehicles. It seems like a needless expense to me. However, I'm not opposed to people having nice things if they can afford it and aren't neglecting the kingdom of God in order to acquire it. Since we can't know any of that for sure without addressing it on a very personal level, I'm again hesitant to pass any judgment regarding someone else's spending--even on a "Lamborghini."

"selling church website 'space' subscriptions, weekend getaways to the beach, Cancun, high dollar hotel stays and weekly speaking engagements across the Nation flying first class"

* Good fundraiser
* Nothing wrong with going to the beach. I went a couple of summers ago with my sisters and my (then) 72 year old mother. We had a blast. We split the cost, too--it wasn't that expensive.

* Cancun? Can't you get package deals? Not much more expensive than going to Branson for several days, I'd imagine. Well, maybe a tad more. ;)

* Flying first class--I've never flown first class, but I'd love to do it just once! And I wouldn't feel guilty about it for a MOMENT!!!

Every great now and then I pay to have a massage--$1 per minute--and worth every penny. ;) I buy my son toys he really doesn't NEED--he just wants them. When I buy shoes, I splurge and buy really good ones, because I care about my feet. I buy fresh flowers for $5-$10 a bunch every other week--I don't need them. I just like to have fresh flowers.

We all spend money on frivolous things, okay MOST of us, and some of us have more money to spend than others. I just don't think it's productive to judge someone else's spending. Most things are subjective anyway, and the rest you really don't know as much as you think you know.


True dat

[oletime]

and since he accused lb of all this i want to see him climb into that lambo that would be fun. he is shall we say a big boy at six foot seven plus a biscuit or two . the last time i saw him he was in an suv with the seat all the way and i mean all the way back.

[mizpeh]

Provide us with the actual name of the golf course and the exact dollar amount of membership, and then we can talk. Even then, I'll be hesitant to judge someone else's spending.
Would you be hesistant to judge this someone's spending if he was your pastor?

[MissBrattified]

Would you be hesitant to judge this someone's spending if he was your pastor?

Yes. My pastor receives a fair salary, and he seems to be a good steward of what he receives. Beyond that I do NOT care what they spend their money on. Personally, I wish we could pay him more.

I just know that when things are lumped together all in one post, they can sound a lot worse than they really are. For all we know, the mansion was a gift from the church, the pool was part of the deal, and golf might be the only luxury the pastor indulges in. We don't know if they go to Cancun all the time, or if it was just a once or twice kind of special occasion, or an anniversary trip.

I'm just saying that luxuries are NOT bad, and our pastor and his family deserves them.

Our pastor and his wife were missionaries to Japan at one time, so for their 15 year anniversary at the church, the church sent them and their son on a trip back to Japan, all expenses paid. I think it was a GREAT gift, and wonderful thanks for their service through the years. Some people would see that as an unnecessary luxury.

[Terry G.]

LB, God KNOWS my heart and intention. Keep the airplane on course, nose up!! Take Flight! Larry, you and I, along with our Elders ARE MAKING IT. EVERYTHING WILL BE ALL RIGHT. HOLD ON DEAR FRIEND. There is much deception in the church today in regards to wealth... They dont have spiritual oversight over you and cannot see the damage satan is coming against you with. Forum, it is not holy to be at the beach with unclothed folks, mixed bathing. Nobody commented on JESUS-Why? I am after LB's soul- that is LOVE. Let it REST. Dont judge my way of reaching one. I am DOING my work as a Minister. Amen.

[MissBrattified]

LB? Whose initials are those? Whoever it is, you need to call them or email them or talk to them directly. That would be more in keeping with scripture, if you are truly concerned about the well being of someone's soul. Otherwise, you're just another gossip.

[Cindy]

LB? Whose initials are those? Whoever it is, you need to call them or email them or talk to them directly. That would be more in keeping with scripture, if you are truly concerned about the well being of someone's soul. Otherwise, you're just another gossip.

Tell it, girl!!!!!

[oletime]

lb would be larry booker, can someone spell I G N O R E or even better BAN . we all can do one of the two ! unbelievable! arrogant and overbearing posts from this guy!

[The Lemon]

I think the biggest issue is that a church becomes a "business" in the first place. The great American Church has created a culture of business to the church that I hardly believe existed in either Jesus' time or the Apostles time. Being blessed is not the issue, it is the likness to the world and the excess that is the issue.

I would say it is nigh to impossible to be humble and live in a million dollar house with a ferrari. Ministers are suppose to be servants to the people of God, not elitist folks in some high position. "Let no man think higher of himself than he ought"

I don't believe Gods children should lack or be poor, but a balance is needed. Large churches = large bills, and the concept of how to fund a church and have gigantic buildings seems to be missing from my Bible...can someone help me find that one?

[Jaxon]

Terry: MissB hit the nail on the head. If you're really concerned talk to him. You're approach is way wrong so anything you would say is wothless IMO.

[Truthseeker]

I think the biggest issue is that a church becomes a "business" in the first place. The great American Church has created a culture of business to the church that I hardly believe existed in either Jesus' time or the Apostles time. Being blessed is not the issue, it is the likness to the world and the excess that is the issue.

I would say it is nigh to impossible to be humble and live in a million dollar house with a ferrari. Ministers are suppose to be servants to the people of God, not elitist folks in some high position. "Let no man think higher of himself than he ought"

I don't believe Gods children should lack or be poor, but a balance is needed. Large churches = large bills, and the concept of how to fund a church and have gigantic buildings seems to be missing from my Bible...can someone help me find that one?


Good points, if it's business then you get to pass it on to your son or son in law. :nah you know family runned bus..... I mean church.

[Terry G.]

Lemon, I almost gave up hope. I am so glad you see that. Exactly what I am so concerned about. How would my critics feel if LB or one of the other WPF leaders were their personal friend? Watching their soul get tangled in the trap of the world's lair? Not many Apostolics know how I weep and agonize and travail for LB. I don't ask anything from God for the privilege, only God abundantly deliver and minister to him an everlasting open door entrance into Heaven. My Flock highly esteem me. I have no rebellious Saints in my Church. I Never Ever have to remind them I am an Elder. My Saints and God know me. I do believe I have been misjudged on this forum. And I fear lest any be tempted from obeying the Truth. May God have Mercy. Lemon is right on time! God Bless!

[jaxfam6]

Lemon, I almost gave up hope. I am so glad you see that. Exactly what I am so concerned about. How would my critics feel if LB or one of the other WPF leaders were their personal friend? Watching their soul get tangled in the trap of the world's lair? Not many Apostolics know how I weep and agonize and travail for LB. I don't ask anything from God for the privilege, only God abundantly deliver and minister to him an everlasting open door entrance into Heaven. My Flock highly esteem me. I have no rebellious Saints in my Church. I Never Ever have to remind them I am an Elder. My Saints and God know me. I do believe I have been misjudged on this forum. And I fear lest any be tempted from obeying the Truth. May God have Mercy. Lemon is right on time! God Bless!

Terry, I do not know you but I have concern whenever I read statements like these. First they are NOT YOUR flock. They are God's children. And then there are reasons to remind people that you are an elder? You are a servent of God and as such a servent to God's children. To feel a need to REMIND someone that you are an elder says you may have an ego problem or a control problem. (and yes I know what you said and I am not saying you have this issue just responding as I see it)
I love my pastor and back him 100%. Not because he is better than me or more spiritual than me but because he teaches truth and is a humble servent of God to those that are entrusted in his care.
Like I said, I do not know you and I am not assuming you really feel the way I perceive your comments, but I do feel concern whenever I hear or see such comments from someone entrusted with souls of others.

I simply find a minister of God 'reminding' others that they are the 'elder' or feeling the need to remind them as egotistical and/or controlling. Neither of those are godly or holy.

again I am not saying you are just responding to your comments.

[Terry G.]

Jax, I just don't want to stumble anyone on their way to Heaven. Not an ego trip. Elders do watch over their flock...we continually wait upon this very thing...must give account to God for ewes in our charge...that we may do it with joy and not grief to be profitable for you. No ego problem. Understand many here haven't a clue who who is. My Saints eat in my home regularly. How many Pastors do that? Hope this soothes your fears. And I respect you. I dont try to control that is witchcraft. I try my best to lead by example. God uses men who are of a very sincere disposition. I am in it for Souls, nothing more, nothing less. My prayer is God raise up more genuine men of God. Good nite.

[connielori]

Terry G.....

You don't get out much....LB is THE LAST MAN that I would EVER accuse of going 'Hollywood', or having a lifestyle of the 'rich and famous'. His house is very nice, but not lavish....NOT a mansion!!!! In your own words..."weekly speaking engagements across the Nation"....FYI Frequent flyers get perks. The other accusations like enjoying his pool and going to the beach...well, we all deserve a day off and vacations!
Look in the mirror and really be honest with your self....Does JEALOUSY have anything to do with this post?

[Sister Alvear]

Maybe we should not judge our brother but judge ourselves...I find LB to be an awesome man of God.

[ILG]

Terry,

Have you ever talked to LB about this personally? If not, why not?

[MomOfADramaQn]

Prominent WPF CEO shares lifestyle is one of rich and famous. From elite prestigous golf course closed community mansion home, backyard pool parties, lamborginis, selling church website 'space' subscriptions, weekend getaways to the beach, Cancun, high dollar hotel stays and weekly speaking engagements across the Nation flying first class--Excuse me and Jesus, WHAT am I 'missing'? Has ULTRACON gone Hollywood? Somebody help me understand. Jesus was with the poor, lepers, and not near a grocery store or a Resort. Jesus never had a vacation. Do you feel and share my heartbeat for God? Anyone else notice odd activity among WPF folks? Your opinions, if you please.



This has been a pet peeve of mine and looooooong time - it is not just WPF people either. Regardless of who it is it annoys me to NO end and it is something that I personally do NOT think God is pleased with. YES - we all need a break/vacation from time to time but to some there is not limit. I know a pator's daughter once whose dad bought her a jaguar and she was mad because she wanted a mercedes - guess what she got a mercedes. AND the amount of money some spend on clothes!!! Did they miss that scripture about costly array??? Once again picking and choosing what they want to believe - happens way too much in pentecost!

[ILG]

This has been a pet peeve of mine and looooooong time - it is not just WPF people either. Regardless of who it is it annoys me to NO end and it is something that I personally do NOT think God is pleased with. YES - we all need a break/vacation from time to time but to some there is not limit. I know a pator's daughter once whose dad bought her a jaguar and she was mad because she wanted a mercedes - guess what she got a mercedes. AND the amount of money some spend on clothes!!! Did they miss that scripture about costly array??? Once again picking and choosing what they want to believe - happens way too much in pentecost!

This was one of my pet peeves the whole time I was in. Not because of jealousy as some suppose. It was hypocritical to me to teach against a dime store necklace and then wear very expensive clothes, have a very expensive house etc.

[MomOfADramaQn]

This was one of my pet peeves the whole time I was in. Not because of jealousy as some suppose. It was hypocritical to me to teach against a dime store necklace and then wear very expensive clothes, have a very expensive house etc.

ABSOLUTELY - this is also one of the reasons why so many pentecostals have the reputation of being snobs -but you know - they will have to answer for that one day - not me - like I have always said and I have been criticized a lot for saying this - PENTECOSTALS ARE GOING TO BE SURPRISED WHO MAKES IT AND WHO DOES NOT MAKE IT TO HEAVEN!

[ILG]

ABSOLUTELY - this is also one of the reasons why so many pentecostals have the reputation of being snobs -but you know - they will have to answer for that one day - not me - like I have always said and I have been criticized a lot for saying this - PENTECOSTALS ARE GOING TO BE SURPRISED WHO MAKES IT AND WHO DOES NOT MAKE IT TO HEAVEN!

Yes, Ma'am. :)

[Truthseeker]

I think TerryG should talk to LB himself. Or maybe someone should email him his post from here???

[Sam]

I think TerryG should talk to LB himself. Or maybe someone should email him his post from here???

I heard of a pastor once, who, whenever someone came to him and started talking of another's faults or failures, would hand the person a piece of paper and request that everything be put in writing with a signature and date. That stopped the tale bearing and accusations to the pastor.

[Theresa]

where does it say that God is opposed to folks being rich?

He just said it's harder for a rich man to make it in the kingdom...and he did minister to the poor and so forth..but never did I see him say it was WRONG to be rich.

In fact, in the OT, there were many times he encouraged the Children of Israel to take the spoils of war for their own....sometimes he told them to leave it...

But there were rich people in the bible, he gave them land..etc.

He didnt say it was WRONG to be rich - how you live you life is what can make it WRONG>

You can be wrong making several million a year vs. 15K a year - if you are not paying your tithes and supporting the work of God and not being a provider for your family, it doesnt matter how much money you have and waste - it's wrong.

But being rich isnt wrong just like being poor isnt some badge of honor for being a child of god.

[MomOfADramaQn]

Look at Christ's life - if we strive to be as Christ then we should NOT live extravagantly. Take that money and use it to feed to the hungry, help the widows, help the orphans. Yes - it happens more than just in the WPF but because of the way WPF left the UPC (by the way I am not UPC or WPF thank GOD!) they set themselves up for scrutiny as this.

[Theresa]

Look at Christ's life - if we strive to be as Christ then we should NOT live extravagantly. Take that money and use it to feed to the hungry, help the widows, help the orphans. Yes - it happens more than just in the WPF but because of the way WPF left the UPC (by the way I am not UPC or WPF thank GOD!) they set themselves up for scrutiny as this.

he suddenly got wealthy after leaving the UPC??

who says he doesnt do those things?

[MissBrattified]

It's always easy to judge how someone else spends their money.

I think we should each make sure that we balance our income with generosity, and if there's some left over--take the kids to Disneyland--and fly first class. :D

Just in regard to this thread, I'm not willing to take the word of a stranger about LB, and even if they were all true, it's not our place to call LB into account. I think that he can answer to God for how he handles his money. I DO believe in living within our means, supporting the church and evangelism, and being generous in other ways. But there's no way to know what LB's personal money habits are with some kind of hear-say account. It's completely unreliable information.

[Theresa]

It's always easy to judge how someone else spends their money.

I think we should each make sure that we balance our income with generosity, and if there's some left over--take the kids to Disneyland--and fly first class. :D

Just in regard to this thread, I'm not willing to take the word of a stranger about LB, and even if they were all true, it's not our place to call LB into account. I think that he can answer to God for how he handles his money. I DO believe in living within our means, supporting the church and evangelism, and being generous in other ways. But there's no way to know what LB's personal money habits are with some kind of hear-say account. It's completely unreliable information.

I think the speculation about LB is just retarded.

but I bet he wouldnt wear lemongrass with sage shoes!!!

[MomOfADramaQn]

he suddenly got wealthy after leaving the UPC??

who says he doesnt do those things?

I don't know anything about LB - I DO NOT follow religious politics. Organized religion is man-made so it definitely has it many flaws. If I did follow the politics of organized religion I would probably be an atheist :) - I am just saying in general I do not think God is pleased with extravagant lifestyles. I don't care if it is UPC, WPF, AA or whatever else there is out there.

[Aquila]

The following verse says something that got me thinking...

II Thessalonians 3:6-10
6Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.
7For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;
8Neither did we eat any man's bread for nought; but wrought with labour and travail night and day, that we might not be chargeable to any of you:
9Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.
10For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat.

Is there a point when it becomes a bad example to live a certain way before the congregation? Is there a point when living off the congregation becomes unethical? I know a pastor who really made his own ours and provided quite a bit of down time throughout the day. I remember going out to lunch with him on one of my days off. I told him I'd pick up the bill and he said that the church would pay for it because it was church business. I inquired as to what he meant, and he stated that he could classify the meeting as "visitation" with me or give a card to the waitress and call it "witnessing". Was he "working" or was he abusing his authority?

Could it be said that many pastors don't deserve to eat?

[RandyWayne]

Is there a point when it becomes a bad example to live a certain way before the congregation? Is there a point when living off the congregation becomes unethical? I know a pastor who really made his own ours and provided quite a bit of down time throughout the day. I remember going out to lunch with him on one of my days off. I told him I'd pick up the bill and he said that the church would pay for it because it was church business. I inquired as to what he meant, and he stated that he could classify the meeting as "visitation" with me or give a card to the waitress and call it "witnessing". Was he "working" or was he abusing his authority?

Could it be said that many pastors don't deserve to eat?

Again, I am not against wealth or the wealthy. I have ALWAYS despised the taxation that many of the rich have to endure -even though I will never be in their tax bracket. I am not against people having nice things and nice cars and nice cloths.....

But ANY organization that exists by receiving it's funds in the form of donations DOES have an extra burden in explaining to to the givers how and where the money is spent. Would United Way donations drop off if the tax forms for the head honcho's in each state were released? Would people stop dropping dollar bills into the Salvation Army buckets if it was revealed that the Captain was making a quarter million a year?

Is this why so many pastors react so violently when the concept of the tithe is challenged? Even by people who may out give tithe payers in the form of offerings, yet still CALL it offerings? (After all 'offerings' are free will and 'tithes' are mandatory which in many minds removes all rights of the tithes payer to know where the money goes.)

[rrford]

Tery G.

Your supposed "concern" is a farce. While "your flock" may esteem you highly I have absolutely no respect for anyone who would do what you have done here. Even if all you say is true, for you to broadcast it in the manner you have and in the place you have should be beneath a Christian, much less a minister.

Sounds more like sour grapes to me.

[Cookin-with-Stoneking]

Again, I am not against wealth or the wealthy. I have ALWAYS despised the taxation that many of the rich have to endure -even though I will never be in their tax bracket. I am not against people having nice things and nice cars and nice cloths.....

But ANY organization that exists by receiving it's funds in the form of donations DOES have an extra burden in explaining to to the givers how and where the money is spent. Would United Way donations drop off if the tax forms for the head honcho's in each state were released? Would people stop dropping dollar bills into the Salvation Army buckets if it was revealed that the Captain was making a quarter million a year?

Is this why so many pastors react so violently when the concept of the tithe is challenged? Even by people who may out give tithe payers in the form of offerings, yet still CALL it offerings? (After all 'offerings' are free will and 'tithes' are mandatory which in many minds removes all rights of the tithes payer to know where the money goes.)

If it wasn't for the legal obligation then there would be no reporting period, yes I understand the sensitivity around giving and the obvious misues of funds by nefarious ministries, but God has designated the tithe to be means and way that ministers get their keep.

A minister sows spiritual things, and he should reap carnal benefits in the form of giving by those that he feeds spiritual things to.

While I think that a church should report in general terms via a budget statement with spending categories it is no business of every member of the church what the Pastor does with his check.

[RandyWayne]

If it wasn't for the legal obligation then there would be no reporting period, yes I understand the sensitivity around giving and the obvious misues of funds by nefarious ministries, but God has designated the tithe to be means and way that ministers get their keep.

A minister sows spiritual things, and he should reap carnal benefits in the form of giving by those that he feeds spiritual things to.

While I think that a church should report in general terms via a budget statement with spending categories it is no business of every member of the church what the Pastor does with his check.

I only think the church members should know WHAT he makes, not what he does with it -they don't even need to know what he gives himself in tithes or offerings just as he doesn't know what I give (I never use an envelope when giving cash -just throw it in).

[Cookin-with-Stoneking]

I only think the church members should know WHAT he makes, not what he does with it -they don't even need to know what he gives himself in tithes or offerings just as he doesn't know what I give (I never use an envelope when giving cash -just throw it in).

I agree!