Repentance necessary for salvation

[Praxeas]

if works is anything you can do then repentance is a work. Some might argue then that repentance is not necessary.

These verses might say other wise

Is Repentance a work? is someone saved before repenting?

Luk 24:47 and that repentance and remission of sins should be proclaimed in His name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Repentance and remission of sins are tied together

Act 5:31 God exalted him at his right hand as Leader and Savior, to give repentance to Israel and forgiveness of sins.

Act 11:18 When they heard these things they fell silent. And they glorified God, saying, "Then to the Gentiles also God has granted repentance that leads to life."
Repentance that leads to life

2Co 7:10 For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret, whereas worldly grief produces death.
that leads to salvation

2Ti 2:25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,

[Sherri]

Repentance just means a change of mind; a change of direction. Leaving Satan's kingdom and entering Jesus' kingdom through confession of sins and turning your back on your old way of life. So yes, it is necessary for salvation. It's the whole essence of becoming a Christian.

[Praxeas]

And now we have scriptural support..how about that? Isn't that neat? :statbike:

[Sherri]

And now we have scriptural support..how about that? Isn't that neat? :statbike:Do you really think anyone on here would say that repentance is NOT necessary for salvation?

[pelathais]

if works is anything you can do then repentance is a work. Some might argue then that repentance is not necessary.

These verses might say other wise

Is Repentance a work?
When people speak of "work(s)" in the context of salvation they are usually referring to the writings of Paul and/or James. In those writings, "work(s)" always refers to the works of the Law - with the possible exception of including Christian charitable works as well.


is someone saved before repenting?
Yes. Ephesians 1:4-6. If you are to be saved in eternity, then you were saved "before the foundation of the world." Presumably Prax, that was well before you or I were even born.

And your insight in the passages you cite reveals keenness of mind.

[mizpeh]

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

[pelathais]

Luke 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
That only applies to the guys killed by Pilate and those who had the tower of Siloam fall on their heads.

[Praxeas]

When people speak of "work(s)" in the context of salvation they are usually referring to the writings of Paul and/or James. In those writings, "work(s)" always refers to the works of the Law - with the possible exception of including Christian charitable works as well.


Yes. Ephesians 1:4-6. If you are to be saved in eternity, then you were saved "before the foundation of the world." Presumably Prax, that was well before you or I were even born.

And your insight in the passages you cite reveals keenness of mind.
I agree i refers to the works of the law, but when it is cited to them it's just works meaning "anything you can do yourself" to them.

[mizpeh]

That only applies to the guys killed by Pilate and those who had the tower of Siloam fall on their heads.

Did you take Hermeneutics under GT Haywood? ;)

[pelathais]

Did you take Hermeneutics under GT Haywood? :O
No, I left them there - Bro. Haywood was a big guy.

[mizpeh]

No, I left them there - Bro. Haywood was a big guy.Thanks, Laurel!

Acts 17: 30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at; but now commandeth all men every where to repent: :statbike:

[Scott Hutchinson]

Yes repentance is essential a person who has not truly repented is not ready for being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ,nor are they ready to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost.

[edjen01]

repentance is a must....and yes it is a work.

[Book 'em Dano]

repentance is a must....and yes it is a work.
No, it is not a work

[mizpeh]

It's a work of grace.

[LUKE2447]

Anything that has to do with choice is a work!

[LUKE2447]

It's a work of grace.


Yes, it is because one received the message which was a act of Grace. Thus anything that proceeds from that is by the grace of God. Thus repentace is by his grace!

[pelathais]

Anything that has to do with choice is a work!

Yes, it is because one received the message which was a act of Grace. Thus anything that proceeds from that is by the grace of God. Thus repentace is by his grace!
Hi Luke. While I suppose we probably agree on the essentials here, I'm wondering how you and others on AFF see the following passages:

John 6:37-39; John 6:44-45 and John 6:65.

There are some who interpret the word "draw" in John 6:44 as literally "drag." I don't think such an extreme understanding is necessary though that's how the Greek word is usually used. Do you see that the work of "coming to Jesus," in these passages anyhow, is a result of the workings of the Spirit of God (or the Father).

These passages from John are usually associated with the words of Paul in Romans 8:28-30.

[Bro-Larry]

When people speak of "work(s)" in the context of salvation they are usually referring to the writings of Paul and/or James. In those writings, "work(s)" always refers to the works of the Law - with the possible exception of including Christian charitable works as well.


Yes. Ephesians 1:4-6. If you are to be saved in eternity, then you were saved "before the foundation of the world." Presumably Prax, that was well before you or I were even born.

And your insight in the passages you cite reveals keenness of mind.

Repentance toward God is turning toward God. Absolutely necessary for salvation.

BTW: All church doctrines are just another system of law. Little different from the Law of Moses. No flesh has ever been or ever will be justified by the deeds of the law.

[mizpeh]

Hi Luke. While I suppose we probably agree on the essentials here, I'm wondering how you and others on AFF see the following passages:

John 6:37-39; John 6:44-45 and John 6:65.

There are some who interpret the word "draw" in John 6:44 as literally "drag." I don't think such an extreme understanding is necessary though that's how the Greek word is usually used. Do you see that the work of "coming to Jesus," in these passages anyhow, is a result of the workings of the Spirit of God (or the Father).

These passages from John are usually associated with the words of Paul in Romans 8:28-30.

Pel, The drawing, the conviction from hearing the word of His grace, and the goodness that LEADS to repentance are all the work of God....repentance is our response to the move of God in our lives. Repentance is a choice WE make. Does that make it a syngistic?

[ManOfWord]

I understand the "technical" nuances of the question of "works." However, I can do NOTHING to make myself right with God. I can do NOTHING to make myself righteous in His eyes.

Repentance, IMO, is a yielding to God. It is taking the ownership of my life and turning it over to Him. It is not SELF centered, as most "works" are. Rather it is God centered. All my "works" are to proceed FROM repentance, not toward it. Repentance is the beginning. It is the birth of anything spiritual in my life. Only God can grant repentance.

"Works" can exist w/o repentance, but true repentance cannot exist w/o "works."
Repentance is NOT responding to an altar call or praying. Repentance is far deeper than that, and I fear that too many diminish the proper place repentance has in the whole scheme of things. In Judaism, it is Teshuvah. It is one of the most powerful things in Judaism. It means a truly fresh start. It is symbolized by a person walking by a moving body of water as a stream and emptying their pockets and throwing the contents, even if only lint, into the stream. They are carried down stream away and we are symbolically cleansed. This is the Jewish thinking. The Jews believe that the greatest gift to mankind is Teshuvah!

[edjen01]

No, it is not a work

care to explain. if it is not a "work"....then is it a gift...a calling...and special anointing from heaven...?? I believe in many cases the word is used as an action...making it really seem like a work.

What is it?

[LUKE2447]

Hi Luke. While I suppose we probably agree on the essentials here, I'm wondering how you and others on AFF see the following passages:

John 6:37-39; John 6:44-45 and John 6:65.

There are some who interpret the word "draw" in John 6:44 as literally "drag." I don't think such an extreme understanding is necessary though that's how the Greek word is usually used. Do you see that the work of "coming to Jesus," in these passages anyhow, is a result of the workings of the Spirit of God (or the Father).

These passages from John are usually associated with the words of Paul in Romans 8:28-30.

What does it mean to draw? If it is to drag as usual it becomes a issue of choice. I believe it is simple. The gospel message either hits the target of the hearer and he responds or not. The message that hits the target(good ground) will reap benefits. Jesus teaching on seed that is on good ground etc... is essential in understanding this. It also can be lost because it is not held on to.

[LUKE2447]

Pel, The drawing, the conviction from hearing the word of His grace, and the goodness that LEADS to repentance are all the work of God....repentance is our response to the move of God in our lives. Repentance is a choice WE make. Does that make it a syngistic?

Is Arminian Theology Synergistic?

By Ben Henshaw

For some, the debate between Arminianism and Calvinism boils down to whether salvation is monergistic or synergistic. I believe the term “synergism” is not always accurately applied to the Arminian position. The word comes from the Greek synergos, which essentially means “working together”. While monergism (to work alone) may be an acceptable label for what Calvinists believe (God does all the work in salvation), synergism does not always rightly portray what Arminians have historically believed.

The word itself, when taken in a grammatically strict sense, is not a very good description of what Arminians believe regarding salvation. Arminians do not believe that both God and man “work” together in salvation. We believe that we are saved “by faith from first to last” (Rom. 1:17). Since faith is antithetical to works (Rom. 3:20-28; 4:2-5; 9:32; 10:5, 6; Gal. 2:16; 3:2, 5; Eph. 2:8, 9; Phil. 3:9), it is a misnomer to label Arminian soteriology as synergistic in the strictest sense of the word.

Arminian theology, when rightly understood, teaches that salvation is monergistic. God alone does the saving. God alone regenerates the soul that is dead in sin. God alone forgives and justifies on the merits of Christ’s blood. God alone makes us holy and righteous. In all of these ways salvation is entirely monergistic. The difference between Calvinism and Arminianism is whether or not God’s saving work is conditional or unconditional. Arminians believe that God will not save until we meet the God ordained condition of faith. Faith may be understood as synergistic only in the sense that God graciously enables us to believe, but we are the ones who must decide whether or not we will believe.

F. Leroy Forlines put it well when he said,

“I believe that saving faith is a gift of God in the sense that the Holy Spirit gives divine enablement without which faith would be impossible (John 6:44). The difference between the Calvinistic concept of faith and my concept of faith cannot be that theirs is monergistic and mine is synergistic. In both cases it is synergistic. Active participation in faith by the believer means it must be synergistic. Human response cannot be ruled out of faith. Justification and regeneration are monergistic. Each is an act of God, not man. Faith is a human act by divine enablement and therefore cannot be monergistic.” [The Quest For Truth, pg 160, emphasis his]

If faith were monergistic then it would not be the person believing, but God believing for the person. Faith is the genuine human response to God’s call, and the means by which we access His saving grace (Rom. 5:1, 2). It is still God’s grace that saves, but that grace must be received by faith, and the nature of faith is such that it can never be properly called a “work”.

Does this mean that man is the determiner of salvation and not God? Absolutely not. God has determined that those who believe in His Son shall be saved, and that determination is absolute and unchangeable (Jn. 3:16-18, 36). We simply determine whether or not we will meet the God ordained condition of faith.


Though I am not strictly Arminian (def not calvinist)this article is very good concerning synergism and monergism.

[pelathais]

What does it mean to draw? If it is to drag as usual it becomes a issue of choice. I believe it is simple. The gospel message either hits the target of the hearer and he responds or not. The message that hits the target(good ground) will reap benefits. Jesus teaching on seed that is on good ground etc... is essential in understanding this. It also can be lost because it is not held on to.
So would you say that God selected you to have that "good ground" and created you to be so disposed from before the foundation of the world? Ephesians 1:4.

[LUKE2447]

So would you say that God selected you to have that "good ground" and created you to be so disposed from before the foundation of the world? Ephesians 1:4.


Well what does it mean to be selected? Did God know who would be saved? Yes! Did he make me have good ground or was the the end result of all the social experiences to date. I would be more deterministic in this or natural order view in this. God saw the end result should he put his plan into action.

I believe God allows things to go about the natural order until he is called upon or a petition before him is given to supercede the natural order. then God acts in response to faith of whomever. God saw all this beforehand. To be selected is what I view as more of the "this is the way I will go" with my shot.

God's initial cause created the resulting actions etc... "Billiard table" the initial shot causes the full movement of pieces ot the end result. Any change in angle or pressure creates a different response from all those who are involved. In this we get the "this is the way I will go".

[mizpeh]

Though I am not strictly Arminian (def not calvinist)this article is very good concerning synergism and monergism.

I should have said the result of God's leading, drawing us, convicting us through his Spirit and his Word brings about faith and faith...repentance. Would we have faith in Christ and repent if God did not shed his grace on us...I don't believe so.

[LUKE2447]

I should have said the result of God's leading, drawing us, convicting us through his Spirit and his Word brings about faith and faith...repentance. Would we have faith in Christ and repent if God did not shed his grace on us...I don't believe so.

I would agree!

[LUKE2447]

I should have said the result of God's leading, drawing us, convicting us through his Spirit and his Word brings about faith and faith...repentance. Would we have faith in Christ and repent if God did not shed his grace on us...I don't believe so.

The gospel is the manifestation of God's Grace from the lips of those who are given the ministry of reconciliation.