Winkler Trial

[Sherri]

Well, they've started picking jurors for the Mary Winkler trial, as of yesterday. She's the Church of Christ lady in Selmer, TN, who murdered her husband (minister) this past year. She shot him in the back with a shotgun, while he was sleeping and then took the kids and ran to Alabama.

We had to go to a funeral visitation in Selmer last night, and we drove by the jail/courthouse where she is. There were news vans there from Fox, and all the big networks around here. It will be insane the next few weeks! She will definitely come off as the abused spouse, whether she was or not. No one will really know since he's not here to defend himself.

[Esther]

But don't you think something pretty bad was going on to do something that drastic?

[Tina]

But don't you think something pretty bad was going on to do something that drastic?

No. I don't think so.

I think that she snapped from the pressure of the internet scam she fell for catching up with her...

but that's still no excuse for murder.

[Ferd]

But don't you think something pretty bad was going on to do something that drastic?

sure, but where? was he doing bad stuff or was the bad stuff in her head/spirit?


Lots of questions. no answers...

[Esther]

No. I don't think so.

I think that she snapped from the pressure of the internet scam she fell for catching up with her...

but that's still no excuse for murder.

What? Haven't heard anything about an internet scam???

[Esther]

sure, but where? was he doing bad stuff or was the bad stuff in her head/spirit?


Lots of questions. no answers...

This can be true. Very scary IF it was indeed only in her head.

[Ferd]

This can be true. Very scary IF it was indeed only in her head.

that happens every day.

[Tina]

http://crime.about.com/od/current/a/winkler.htm

http://boards.courtv.com/ Search for Mary Winkler. There's more info that you ever wanted to know.....

Well, that one didn't work for me... Try this one:

http://boards.courttv.com/showthread.php?threadid=294019&highlight=Mary+Winkler

[Blubayou]

I heard on the news last night that Court TV will be carring the trial. I may be tempted to watch some of it. We got hooked on watching the Peterson trial a couple of years, ago and said we would never get that involved in watching something like that again.

[rgcraig]

I heard on the news last night that Court TV will be carring the trial. I may be tempted to watch some of it. We got hooked on watching the Peterson trial a couple of years, ago and said we would never get that involved in watching something like that again.
lol...then you better not start watching!

[Pressing-On]

I heard on the news last night that Court TV will be carring the trial. I may be tempted to watch some of it. We got hooked on watching the Peterson trial a couple of years, ago and said we would never get that involved in watching something like that again.

Are you going to give a blow by blow like they do at General Conference?

:toofunny :toofunny

[Falla39]

I heard on the news last night that Court TV will be carring the trial. I may be tempted to watch some of it. We got hooked on watching the Peterson trial a couple of years, ago and said we would never get that involved in watching something like that again.

Unless you plan to do it, you had better never say NEVER!

For some reason it seems that if you say "NEVER", you can

almost be assured that you will do just the opposite!! LOL!!

However, sometimes when you say never, good things happen

as in the case of our oldest son who, got out church for a

while, married a girl who said, "I will NEVER be a Pentecostal.

They just celebrated their 18th anniversay and they have been

Pentecostals (strong) for most of that time!!

Thanks for reminding me of a good "never" true story!!:happydance

Blessings,

Falla39

[Bishop1]

Tennessee

Has a Special Chair,

RESERVED

Just For

Mary Winkler,

In

Nashville -

BUT Her

Attorney

Wants Her To Go

To A Special Residence In

BOLIVAR - - - - -
:grampa




Bishop1
:beatdeadhorse

[Margies3]

I was the alternate on a jury trial for a woman who had been severely abused by her boyfriend for years. She finally had enough and after he had beaten her one day, she took a gun to his place of employment a few hours later and shot and killed him. I expected her to get off because of the abuse. She didn't tho. She was convincted and is serving time in prison right now.

The abuse was well documented. No question about it. So the reason she was convicted? Because she waited to shoot him until he was at work. If she had done it while he was in the process of beating her up, she would have walked. But because she waited, it was considered pre-meditated.

I imagine that's what could happen in this case too.

[Sherri]

I think if he had been abusive, there should have been some sort of signals from his kids, especially the oldest girl. The teachers at her school think she was a sweet, well adjusted normal child. The family seemed like they had it altogether, obviously they didn't. I know some people who attend this church; it was a total shock!

[Sister Truth Seeker]

But don't you think something pretty bad was going on to do something that drastic?
Some people kill because the want too...

[Neck]

But don't you think something pretty bad was going on to do something that drastic?

If he would have killer her would you think that way?

[Sherri]

Jury selection is to be finished by this evening. They are talking about taking this trial right through the weekends, including Sundays if they can get by with it. From what I hear, the defense is going to use some strange angles, like brainwashing from the Church of Christ background/hierarchy. Could get interesting!

[Sister Alvear]

Sad happening...

[rgcraig]

Jury selection is to be finished by this evening. They are talking about taking this trial right through the weekends, including Sundays if they can get by with it. From what I hear, the defense is going to use some strange angles, like brainwashing from the Church of Christ background/hierarchy. Could get interesting!

Hmmmmm....

[Ferd]

On a side note, Church of Christ is big in Texas. Every grown person I know that grew up Church of Christ is bitter and does not attend church...how wierd is that?

[tamor]

Jury selection is to be finished by this evening. They are talking about taking this trial right through the weekends, including Sundays if they can get by with it. From what I hear, the defense is going to use some strange angles, like brainwashing from the Church of Christ background/hierarchy. Could get interesting!


Really? They were saying that it would probably take a week to select the jury. I heard at one time that they were almost through all the jury pool and would have to start talking with other people.

[Margies3]

On a side note, Church of Christ is big in Texas. Every grown person I know that grew up Church of Christ is bitter and does not attend church...how wierd is that?

Ferd, I have some cousins who grew up Church of Christ. They are certainly a 'different bunch'. But I would never say that everyone grows up, leaves and is bitter when they leave. Many choose to stay.

Actually, they kind of remind me of Apostolic people. Don't take this as an offense. It is not meant that way. But how many Apostolics grow up in the church, leave as they get older and then get bitter and don't attend church anywhere? Again, many choose to stay (like in the Church of Christ as well), but sometimes those who leave will turn bitter (like in the Church of Christ as well).

I think this could be said of any denomination. Do you agree?

[Forgiven]

Ferd, I have some cousins who grew up Church of Christ. They are certainly a 'different bunch'. But I would never say that everyone grows up, leaves and is bitter when they leave. Many choose to stay.

Actually, they kind of remind me of Apostolic people. Don't take this as an offense. It is not meant that way. But how many Apostolics grow up in the church, leave as they get older and then get bitter and don't attend church anywhere? Again, many choose to stay (like in the Church of Christ as well), but sometimes those who leave will turn bitter (like in the Church of Christ as well).

I think this could be said of any denomination. Do you agree?

You're right. It could be said of any denominations.

Another similarity between some Church of Christ and Apostolics is that both think they are the only ones that have the truth and that they are the only ones that will be going to heaven but I think that would be enough of a statement to start another thread wouldn't it? :winkgrin

[Margies3]

You're right. It could be said of any denominations.

Another similarity between some Church of Christ and Apostolics is that both think they are the only ones that have the truth and that they are the only ones that will be going to heaven but I think that would be enough of a statement to start another thread wouldn't it? :winkgrin

I actually considered saying that, but decided that I'd probably already stirred up enough. :winkgrin

[Esther]

If he would have killer her would you think that way?

Possible, but I think MOST men seem quite capable of taking care of themselves and I don't think there are that many women abusing men out there.

A few maybe.

[Margies3]

Just last week a man here in our area shot and killed his ex-girlfriend and her current boyfriend - in front of her 4 children (2 of them are his!)

The court records show that this man has been arrested repeatedly for abusing this woman and probably should have been in prison.

People are really hot about this incident because of the man's prior history. And rightfully so!

But I've wondered how people would be reacting today if she had killed him instead of him killing her? I wonder if they would agreed with the self-defense claim if that had happened.

[Esther]

Just last week a man here in our area shot and killed his ex-girlfriend and her current boyfriend - in front of her 4 children (2 of them are his!)

The court records show that this man has been arrested repeatedly for abusing this woman and probably should have been in prison.

People are really hot about this incident because of the man's prior history. And rightfully so!

But I've wondered how people would be reacting today if she had killed him instead of him killing her? I wonder if they would agreed with the self-defense claim if that had happened.

Sometimes you just can't win. :(

Sad to say. It is hard to know who tells the truth anymore.

But a history of reported abuse would in my opinion carry a lot of weight were I to be on their jury.

[Sherri]

Tomorrow they are going to have the oldest daughter on the stand, which I really hate to see, since she can't be over 8 or 9 years old. I guess her tesitmony of that day and what happened will be crucial for the jury. All three kids were in the house when he was shot.

A guy from our church is the main reporter in this little town where the trial is being held and he calls me every day or so to fill me in on the behind-the-scenes happenings. Actually, he says he just needs to hear a friendly voice from time to time during trials like this.

[tamor]

Closing arguments were made yesterday and the jury is in deliberation. I wonder how long this will take.

[rgcraig]

Closing arguments were made yesterday and the jury is in deliberation. I wonder how long this will take.

I think the trial went VERY fast.....

[tamor]

I think the trial went VERY fast.....


It went faster than I expected. I figured it would last the rest of this week with the deliberations beginning after the weekend.

[ILG]

I think if he had been abusive, there should have been some sort of signals from his kids, especially the oldest girl. The teachers at her school think she was a sweet, well adjusted normal child. The family seemed like they had it altogether, obviously they didn't. I know some people who attend this church; it was a total shock!

Children in an abusive family can be very compliant, especially girls.

[Esther]

Children in an abusive family can be very compliant, especially girls.

Very true.

[Sherri]

I guess I can't get past the fact that Mary might be making up this entire thing (other than the computer porn) and no one will ever know because her husband isn't here to defend himself. I think she will walk away and possibly not even serve time - just probation. If that happens, I think there will be a rash of spousal murders in the future.

[Tina]

I guess I can't get past the fact that Mary might be making up this entire thing (other than the computer porn) and no one will ever know because her husband isn't here to defend himself. I think she will walk away and possibly not even serve time - just probation. If that happens, I think there will be a rash of spousal murders in the future.

She had a year to come up with an elaborate story.

I have been watching the videos of some of the testimony today on the Channel 3 website-- and from what I've seen of it-- I'm not buying her story. The reason I don't buy her story is that I've been listening pretty closely-- and she's retracting too many statements. Denying telling the police in Alabama stuff, etc...


Whatever the rest of the story, it is no excuse for murder. I probably won't have time to view the rest of it. Although I'd like to...

[tamor]

The jury just delivered a verdit.

Voluntary Manslaughter -
which carries 3-6 years in prison with possible parole after 30% served.

[Tina]

Mary Winkler guilty of voluntary manslaughter

April 19, 2007 05:51 PM CDT






SELMER, TN -- The jury returned with a verdict in the Mary Winkler trial. She has been found guilty of Voluntary Manslaughter.

After a week and a half of testimony, the jury started deliberations Thursday morning at 9am. Eight hours later, they had come to a decision. Rather than finding the preacher's wife guilty of First or Second Degree murder, they found her guilty of Voluntary Manslaughter.

Under U.S. law, Voluntary Manslaughter carries a maximum sentence of 10 years, but in Tennessee, the law is only three to six years. There is also a chance of parole after serving 30% of the sentence.

Whether Mary Winkler will have to spend the term in prison or if her sentence will be reduced still needs to be decided.

The judge has decided that Mary can be released under her present bond if she can come up with the cash until the date of her sentence on May 18, 2006.
http://www.wreg.com/global/story.asp?s=6398839

[tamor]

I believe her testimony, but it still does NOT condone murder.

[MrsBOOMM]

I go back and forth, I don't know if I believe her or not. Abusive men can sometimes be very smart on how to hide it. And, being a pastor he would have had to hide it pretty good to keep it from the people. If, she was abused the anger level would have grown weekly after that she would have to listen to him tell others how they should live their lives knowing how he was living his own. It is too bad she couldn't have gotten help. But in her situation that would have been tough. There were aspects of her situation that I feel both lawyers completely missed according to what I read. It just didn't seem to have the punch that the media was giving it prior to trial. I mean those shoes and the wig could have been bought since the murder, who knows. I feel so bad for the kids and the parents. Must be heart wrenching.

[Revelationist]

One news report said that she had went to work for the Post Office and had learned how to defend herself...

Jerry Moon

[ILG]

Does anybody have a link to an article about the wig and such? I looked but didn't find one.

[MissBrattified]

Does anybody have a link to an article about the wig and such? I looked but didn't find one.

LINK (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/18/national/main2698785.shtml)

Quote:

"Speaking about their sex life, she spoke quietly and hesitantly, with eyes downcast. She said Matthew Winkler forced her to view pornography, dress "slutty" and have sex she considered unnatural.

The defense showed the jury a pair of white platform-heel shoes and a wig Mary Winkler said her husband wanted her to wear during sex. She described a skirt he wanted her to wear as "very, very short." Pornographic photos she identified as coming from their home computer were entered as evidence. "

[ILG]

LINK (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/04/18/national/main2698785.shtml)

Quote:

"Speaking about their sex life, she spoke quietly and hesitantly, with eyes downcast. She said Matthew Winkler forced her to view pornography, dress "slutty" and have sex she considered unnatural.

The defense showed the jury a pair of white platform-heel shoes and a wig Mary Winkler said her husband wanted her to wear during sex. She described a skirt he wanted her to wear as "very, very short." Pornographic photos she identified as coming from their home computer were entered as evidence. "

Thanks.

I know that women involved in DV cases can be very fearful and fear for their lives. They may feel that even if they leave they will be dogged by their spouse and that no one will believe them. Her husband was obviously a very charismatic man, as most abusive men are. I do believe she was abused.

I still feel that shooting someone in the back is not a Christian response, which would try to live in faith rather than murder.

[tamor]

One news report said that she had went to work for the Post Office and had learned how to defend herself...

Jerry Moon


I haven't heard that one. She was a substitute teacher when they were married and lived in Selmer and she has been working at a dry cleaners in McMinville (sp?), TN since she's been out on bond.

Besides, would she even be able to get a job at the Post Office, since that's a federal job, being in the position that she was in?

[Just a Shepherd]

Thanks.

I still feel that shooting someone in the back is not a Christian response, which would try to live in faith rather than murder.

It's good to see you draw the line, ILG. :toofunny

[tamor]

It's good to see you draw the line, ILG. :toofunny


That's bad!!

:toofunny :toofunny

[Steve Epley]

It's good to see you draw the line, ILG. :toofunny

She is a legalist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:aaa

[ILG]

It's good to see you draw the line, ILG. :toofunny

I know that seems obvious to some, but I work in a Domestic Violence shelter. It is a very liberal environment where some would feel that it was self defense because she was abused. So, in the line of work that I am in, it is indeed drawing a line!

[ILG]

BTW, I am viewed as so conservative there, that some people have no idea how to take me! It is an oftentimes anti-Christian, pro-abortion, pro-homosexual, feminazi place. Every day I speak with people who are all of the above.

[Revelationist]

I haven't heard that one. She was a substitute teacher when they were married and lived in Selmer and she has been working at a dry cleaners in McMinville (sp?), TN since she's been out on bond.

Besides, would she even be able to get a job at the Post Office, since that's a federal job, being in the position that she was in?


I understood that was where she was working before it happened...

Jerry Moon

[HeavenlyOne]

Mary Winkler guilty of voluntary manslaughter

April 19, 2007 05:51 PM CDT






SELMER, TN -- The jury returned with a verdict in the Mary Winkler trial. She has been found guilty of Voluntary Manslaughter.

After a week and a half of testimony, the jury started deliberations Thursday morning at 9am. Eight hours later, they had come to a decision. Rather than finding the preacher's wife guilty of First or Second Degree murder, they found her guilty of Voluntary Manslaughter.

Under U.S. law, Voluntary Manslaughter carries a maximum sentence of 10 years, but in Tennessee, the law is only three to six years. There is also a chance of parole after serving 30% of the sentence.

Whether Mary Winkler will have to spend the term in prison or if her sentence will be reduced still needs to be decided.

The judge has decided that Mary can be released under her present bond if she can come up with the cash until the date of her sentence on May 18, 2006.
http://www.wreg.com/global/story.asp?s=6398839


Leave it to rednecks to sentence her before the crime was even committed!!!

[CC1]

I can't believe this woman has gotten away with murder. She could possibly be out on parole in just one year after shooting her husband to death in cold blood with a shotgun then leaving him to die on the floor.

She should have been behind bars for life at the very least and the death penalty would have been appropriate.

[MrsBOOMM]

I am not sure if she was abused as she said she was, but from the video clip that I saw and the testimony, my gut feeling says that she was. That being said, she did say that he had put his hand over their youngest child's nose and mouth to stop her to stop her from crying. Mary might have been able to stand the abuse that she had gone thru but it looked to me like this might have been the straw that broke the camel's back. To see that he was going to start in on the children. Had I been her attorney I would have zoned in on that. I have never been in an abusive situation but if I ever was and my children were threatened, I might consider using a gun.

[HeavenlyOne]

Until you've been there............

[Pressing-On]

Until you've been there............
Isn't that the truth! :tiphat

[Sherri]

I am not sure if she was abused as she said she was, but from the video clip that I saw and the testimony, my gut feeling says that she was. That being said, she did say that he had put his hand over their youngest child's nose and mouth to stop her to stop her from crying. Mary might have been able to stand the abuse that she had gone thru but it looked to me like this might have been the straw that broke the camel's back. To see that he was going to start in on the children. Had I been her attorney I would have zoned in on that. I have never been in an abusive situation but if I ever was and my children were threatened, I might consider using a gun.
Still, this is just her word against no one. Who says that even happened with her child??? They didn't hear that from the older girl when she testified. This could just be a made up story to justify what she did. Sorry, but I don't believe much of what she said.

[Sherri]

I can't believe this woman has gotten away with murder. She could possibly be out on parole in just one year after shooting her husband to death in cold blood with a shotgun then leaving him to die on the floor.

She should have been behind bars for life at the very least and the death penalty would have been appropriate.
I talked to the reporter who goes to our church and he said it's very likely that she will just be on house arrest and/or probation and might not ever serve at all.

By the way, he was supposed to be on Nancy Grace tonight and I missed it. I hope he was able to hold his own; he's always wanted to be on her show!! He is supposedly going to be on Oprah soon.

[Just a Shepherd]

I can't believe this woman has gotten away with murder. She could possibly be out on parole in just one year after shooting her husband to death in cold blood with a shotgun then leaving him to die on the floor.

She should have been behind bars for life at the very least and the death penalty would have been appropriate.

Just how has she "gotten away with murder?" We have this thing in America called the jury system. Basically, they hear ALL the evidence and decide guilt (what level of) or innocence. Seems to me the system is doing what it is supposed to do. Apparently there are mitigating circumstances.

[MrsBOOMM]

Still, this is just her word against no one. Who says that even happened with her child??? They didn't hear that from the older girl when she testified. This could just be a made up story to justify what she did. Sorry, but I don't believe much of what she said.

I have times that I don't believe her and times that I do. I guess no one will ever know for sure. He could have been a person who was very good at hiding what he did. The older girl could have been at school when the incident happened with the younger one. How many times have we heard of pastor's who have gone off the deep end with seemingly no warning. I personally know of one who did, and he did not give off any clues. Just went off. The video that I saw showed a very distraught woman and she was having a job just to talk. There was definitely a lack of evidence but maybe there wasn't any. Porn Pics from their computer does tell something, though.

[CC1]

Just how has she "gotten away with murder?" We have this thing in America called the jury system. Basically, they hear ALL the evidence and decide guilt (what level of) or innocence. Seems to me the system is doing what it is supposed to do. Apparently there are mitigating circumstances.

What we have in America is a society who no longer believes in personal responsibility for our behaviour and actions.

Everybody has an excuse for everything. Modern psychobabble has brought these kinds of verdicts upon us.

A woman in he situation can leave, go to a woman's shelter, file for divorce, go live with relatives, a million different things. What they cannot do is murder their spouse in cold blood.

Verdicts like this will only encourage other women to do the same.

This woman had been taken in by that goofy Nigerian internet scam. She had lost thousands of dollars through that scam and possibly others. She was kiting checks, had opened out of town checking accounts as part of the kiting scam, etc,etc.

Those are not the actions of an innocent helpless woman. She knew she was in big doo doo with her husband over her losing all of that money and rather than face him she killed him.

Did she "snap"? Of course she did to some degree. However she always knew right from wrong. She is not insane.

[ILG]

What we have in America is a society who no longer believes in personal responsibility for our behaviour and actions.

Everybody has an excuse for everything. Modern psychobabble has brought these kinds of verdicts upon us.

A woman in he situation can leave, go to a woman's shelter, file for divorce, go live with relatives, a million different things. What they cannot do is murder their spouse in cold blood.

Verdicts like this will only encourage other women to do the same.

This woman had been taken in by that goofy Nigerian internet scam. She had lost thousands of dollars through that scam and possibly others. She was kiting checks, had opened out of town checking accounts as part of the kiting scam, etc,etc.

Those are not the actions of an innocent helpless woman. She knew she was in big doo doo with her husband over her losing all of that money and rather than face him she killed him.

Did she "snap"? Of course she did to some degree. However she always knew right from wrong. She is not insane.

She should have waited until he was pointing a gun at her again, then she could have pulled a pistol, shot him, and got off scott free. :D

Seriously though, I don't feel good about her shooting him in the back while he slept. She may have been afraid that he was going to stalk her forever if she left....and maybe he would have. But shooting him in the back just doesn't seem right to me. I know that the DV women I work with, many victims, might feel differently. This issue hits close to home with many. The jury listened to the evidence and made the choice. I am not sure I could have let her off on manslaughter with only maybe a year to serve. That is scary to me because in these cases, we often just don't know what really happened. Did her husband force her to watch porn? How did he do that? Did he hold a gun to her head then? She very well may have watched it out of fear. At the same time, I wonder if there weren't other times that she could have stood up and said no or walked out without shooting him in the back in his sleep. At any rate, she was not proclaimed innocent.

[Esther]

I can't believe this woman has gotten away with murder. She could possibly be out on parole in just one year after shooting her husband to death in cold blood with a shotgun then leaving him to die on the floor.

She should have been behind bars for life at the very least and the death penalty would have been appropriate.

What do you base your comment on? I know you are in TN where you perhaps have more information than the rest of us.

[CC1]

What do you base your comment on? I know you are in TN where you perhaps have more information than the rest of us.

There has been extensive coverage of the trial here and I have either seen the actual footage of or read her supposed defense.

It is the weakest attempt to paint a man as an abuser I have ever seen and is clearly a legal tactic to get her off and it worked.

The oldest daugther testifed that she had never witnessed her father abusing her mother, being mean to her, etc and I think it would have been very hard for him to have hid it from her. She would have at least seen her mother distraught and that did not happen.

This is a case of a mentally weak woman losing a ton of money in internet scams, the bank was closing in on her and it was all about to become public.

She was devious enough to open a second out of town bank account that she used in a kiting scheme to try and keep the first bank and her overdrawn account there under control.

When she realized her house of cards was falling around her and how angry her husband was going to be and what shame that was going to bring on them in the small community she did an irrational thing.

She should have been held accountable for what she did and she ought to be ashamed of herself for smearing her dead husband in an attempt to get off scot free.

That is true evil.

[ILG]

The oldest daugther testifed that she had never witnessed her father abusing her mother, being mean to her, etc and I think it would have been very hard for him to have hid it from her. She would have at least seen her mother distraught and that did not happen.

She may not have seen it or she may not know how to define it. She may not want her mother to suffer any more than she already has.

She should have been held accountable for what she did and she ought to be ashamed of herself for smearing her dead husband in an attempt to get off scot free.

That is true evil.

You seem to have very strong reactions to this type of thing everytime one of these cases comes up. :)

As I see it these cases are very hard, even for juries to root out the real truth and decide just what really is going on. In listening to some sexual abuse accusations and domestic violence accusations the truth is sometimes very hard to dicipher. When you have a sexual abuse case, for example, it is sometimes his word against hers and vice versa. If he is guilty, we all obviously want him to pay. If she is lying, we want her to pay. But having a 3rd party decide is what is hard. In the Mary Winkler case, the bottom line for me is that whether she was abused or not, she shot him in the back while he slept.

[Esther]

There has been extensive coverage of the trial here and I have either seen the actual footage of or read her supposed defense.

It is the weakest attempt to paint a man as an abuser I have ever seen and is clearly a legal tactic to get her off and it worked.

The oldest daugther testifed that she had never witnessed her father abusing her mother, being mean to her, etc and I think it would have been very hard for him to have hid it from her. She would have at least seen her mother distraught and that did not happen.

This is a case of a mentally weak woman losing a ton of money in internet scams, the bank was closing in on her and it was all about to become public.

She was devious enough to open a second out of town bank account that she used in a kiting scheme to try and keep the first bank and her overdrawn account there under control.

When she realized her house of cards was falling around her and how angry her husband was going to be and what shame that was going to bring on them in the small community she did an irrational thing.

She should have been held accountable for what she did and she ought to be ashamed of herself for smearing her dead husband in an attempt to get off scot free.

That is true evil.

How old is the oldest daughter?

[rgcraig]

How old is the oldest daughter?

9 and it should be noted that she is living with the paternal grandparents too.

[ILG]

9 and it should be noted that she is living with the paternal grandparents too.

This is from the link provided by MB:

Her depiction of her marriage contrasts radically with the description by the prosecution, whose witnesses described Matthew Winkler as a good father and husband. The couple's 9-year-old daughter, Patricia, testified she had a good father and she never saw him mistreat her mother.

[Esther]

9 and it should be noted that she is living with the paternal grandparents too.

That is very note worthy to know. She is too young to know what may have really been going on in my opinion and if she was living with his parents they could have influenced her for sure.

[TopDog]

I can't believe this woman has gotten away with murder. She could possibly be out on parole in just one year after shooting her husband to death in cold blood with a shotgun then leaving him to die on the floor.

She should have been behind bars for life at the very least and the death penalty would have been appropriate.

I tend to agree CC1. I think that in general crimes committed by woman are minimized by the justice system - including the jury in this case.

Just flip the table on this and consider if he had shot her - it would likely be a very different outcome. I think this is part of a growing trend of acceptable gender based discrimination (a form of racism?).....

Well - I expect this should generate some pretty "good" reactions.....:thumbsup

[ILG]

I tend to agree CC1. I think that in general crimes committed by woman are minimized by the justice system - including the jury in this case.

Just flip the table on this and consider if he had shot her - it would likely be a very different outcome. I think this is part of a growing trend of acceptable gender based discrimination (a form of racism?).....

Well - I expect this should generate some pretty "good" reactions.....:thumbsup

Well, women don't usually abuse their husbands physically and sexually.....there is one reason for the thought process. And men are usually much bigger than women. Maybe God discriminated against women in that. LOL! :slaphappy Just kidding. But seriously, men by nature are more aggressive and bigger than women which is why there seems to be a discrimination here, but maybe discrimination isn't really the right way to think of it.

I *do* think that the women teachers who are molesting kids are getting off way too easy. But, I don't think this is the case in abusive situations, generally.

[CC1]

A nine year old child who loves both parents like this one does is not being influenced by the paternal grandparents to lie about her dads behaviour.

If this woman was being battered and abused by the husband this daughter is old enough to have picked up on her mother being distraught, upset, injured, etc.

This woman shot her husband in the back while he was sleeping. Are you people nuts? Truly our society has gone haywire when there is any question as to whether she had justification of not.

[rgcraig]

If Mrs. CC1 reads some of the posts you have written about her, you might want to sleep with one eye open yourself - -:toofunny

[CC1]

If Mrs. CC1 reads some of the posts you have written about her, you might want to sleep with one eye open yourself - -:toofunny

Do you think I should stop making her wear the blonde Marilyn Monroe wig and high heels to bed for awhile?:slaphappy

[Ferd]

A nine year old child who loves both parents like this one does is not being influenced by the paternal grandparents to lie about her dads behaviour.

If this woman was being battered and abused by the husband this daughter is old enough to have picked up on her mother being distraught, upset, injured, etc.

This woman shot her husband in the back while he was sleeping. Are you people nuts? Truly our society has gone haywire when there is any question as to whether she had justification of not.

lets not forget she was kiting checks and didnt want her husband to find out about it.


guilty is as guilty does.

[rgcraig]

Do you think I should stop making her wear the blonde Marilyn Monroe wig and high heels to bed for awhile?:slaphappy

No wonder she has neck and back problems!

[Esther]

A nine year old child who loves both parents like this one does is not being influenced by the paternal grandparents to lie about her dads behaviour.

If this woman was being battered and abused by the husband this daughter is old enough to have picked up on her mother being distraught, upset, injured, etc.

This woman shot her husband in the back while he was sleeping. Are you people nuts? Truly our society has gone haywire when there is any question as to whether she had justification of not.

CC1 I'm not judging one way or the other. I don't have enough information and there is probably more to this story than has been told.

[ILG]

A nine year old child who loves both parents like this one does is not being influenced by the paternal grandparents to lie about her dads behaviour.

If this woman was being battered and abused by the husband this daughter is old enough to have picked up on her mother being distraught, upset, injured, etc.

This woman shot her husband in the back while he was sleeping. Are you people nuts? Truly our society has gone haywire when there is any question as to whether she had justification of not.

Has anyone said she was justified? She was sentenced. And I personally said I felt she got off too lightly.

But I can't agree with your assesment of the child. A little kid who had gone through as much as this one has is going to do whatever she can to make her life easier. And in this case, that will be to make her grandparents happy.

[rgcraig]

I do know for a fact that abuse can be hid from everyone.

It doesn't give anyone the right to kill someone else though.

[ILG]

lets not forget she was kiting checks and didnt want her husband to find out about it.


guilty is as guilty does.

Yeah. That bugs me too. If he made her do it, she was at least an accomplice, if a very frightened one.

[Esther]

I do know for a fact that abuse can be hid from everyone.

It doesn't give anyone the right to kill someone else though.

You are right about that!

[CC1]

I do know for a fact that abuse can be hid from everyone.

It doesn't give anyone the right to kill someone else though.

I saw those bruises you left on Terry!!!

[MissBrattified]

Has anyone said she was justified? She was sentenced. And I personally said I felt she got off too lightly.

But I can't agree with your assesment of the child. A little kid who had gone through as much as this one has is going to do whatever she can to make her life easier. And in this case, that will be to make her grandparents happy.

I agree. The child's assessment means little or nothing in my opinion.

Abuse can be very insiduous, and even very private, especially if its sexual in nature.

Again, I don't think anyone is excusing her action, but IF she is telling the truth, I think some understanding can be expressed.

I think there must have been some merit, or they wouldn't have convicted her of voluntary manslaughter, which is a veritable slap on the wrist, were her actions standing alone as cold-blooded, premeditated murder.

[rgcraig]

I agree. The child's assessment means little or nothing in my opinion.

Abuse can be very insidious, and even very private, especially if its sexual in nature.

Again, I don't think anyone is excusing her action, but IF she is telling the truth, I think some understanding can be expressed.

I think there must have been some merit, or they wouldn't have convicted her of voluntary manslaughter, which is a veritable slap on the wrist, were her actions standing alone as cold-blooded, premeditated murder.

Also, someone like this is not as capable of doing it again. There was a reason in her mind that she killed him and I doubt she's a real threat to society.

[CC1]

Also, someone like this is not as capable of doing it again. There was a reason in her mind that she killed him and I doubt she's a real threat to society.

I beg to differ. What if a friend invites her to a costume party and at the costume shop urges her to wear a blonde wig and platform high heels?

BAMMM!!!!!!!

[CC1]

I agree. The child's assessment means little or nothing in my opinion.

Abuse can be very insiduous, and even very private, especially if its sexual in nature.

Again, I don't think anyone is excusing her action, but IF she is telling the truth, I think some understanding can be expressed.

I think there must have been some merit, or they wouldn't have convicted her of voluntary manslaughter, which is a veritable slap on the wrist, were her actions standing alone as cold-blooded, premeditated murder.

Ok, here is my "understanding". Don't put her to death. Let her out of prison after 30 years so she can be free during her retirement years.

There! You have now seen my softer, gentler side.

[ILG]

I beg to differ. What if a friend invites her to a costume party and at the costume shop urges her to wear a blonde wig and platform high heels?

BAMMM!!!!!!!

LOL! You are funny, CC1.:slaphappy

[Sherri]

Well, personally, I think she's guilty as sin!! I'm sorry, but I don't care if he yelled at her and belittled her everyday; you have no excuse to end his life! She said she couldn't leave him and get a divorce, because it would hurt the ministry. Well hello?????? What has this done?

[CC1]

Well, personally, I think she's guilty as sin!! I'm sorry, but I don't care if he yelled at her and belittled her everyday; you have no excuse to end his life! She said she couldn't leave him and get a divorce, because it would hurt the ministry. Well hello?????? What has this done?

Exactly!

I am so sick of evil horror done by people excused away because they were picked on, their feelings got hurt, etc.

She has never stated that she felt her life was in danger at any time with this man. She just got tired of him fussing at her and she did not want to face him with the financial mess she had gotten them into with that Nigerian internet scam.

[ILG]

Exactly!

I am so sick of evil horror done by people excused away because they were picked on, their feelings got hurt, etc.

She has never stated that she felt her life was in danger at any time with this man. She just got tired of him fussing at her and she did not want to face him with the financial mess she had gotten them into with that Nigerian internet scam.

I read that she said he threatened her with a gun many times.

[Thad]

Well, personally, I think she's guilty as sin!! I'm sorry, but I don't care if he yelled at her and belittled her everyday; you have no excuse to end his life! She said she couldn't leave him and get a divorce, because it would hurt the ministry. Well hello?????? What has this done?


I believe there is more to it than that. You can just tell by observing everything.

I think the jury did the right thing

[CC1]

I believe there is more to it than that. You can just tell by observing everything.

I think the jury did the right thing

Of course you do. You are a bleeding heart Califorinia liberal! You would lose your California citizenship to believe in law and order.:happydance

[Thad]

Of course you do. You are a bleeding heart Califorinia liberal! You would lose your California citizenship to believe in law and order.:happydance


dj if someone molested your daughter wouldn't be tempted to kill them too????

and I'm not a liberal ! I resent that

[Sister Alvear]

We believe you, Thad. Blessings to you.

[Sherri]

dj if someone molested your daughter wouldn't be tempted to kill them too????

and I'm not a liberal ! I resent that
No one knows that he molested anyone; it's all just Mary's story. If you were facing life in prison, you could probably make up a convincing story too. Especially when you've had a year of coaching from a professional. Sorry, but we are just too close to this one, and the home folk don't seem to buy her story.

[MrsBOOMM]

If she was abused as she stated she was, she was in a horrible situation because being in her position as a Pastor's wife and with her inlaws also being in the ministry, she would have felt like there was no one she could turn to. She did say that the gun went off accidentally, she may not have intended for it to go off when it did. I am not convinced that she is not guilty of first degree murder, some of the story is hard to believe. But if this was a true picture of him that she painted then what an awful life she was being forced to live. I also know that abuse can be cleverly hidden from everyone for a long time. And no, Mr. BOOMM is not an abuser!

[Thad]

No one knows that he molested anyone; it's all just Mary's story. If you were facing life in prison, you could probably make up a convincing story too. Especially when you've had a year of coaching from a professional. Sorry, but we are just too close to this one, and the home folk don't seem to buy her story.


come on sherri, you're a woman you ought to be able to "read".
she was a beaten down abused women who snapped. why don't you have any mercy ? you can tell that man was a control freak. IM not saying she should have shot him but I believe her account

[Tina]

come on sherri, you're a woman you ought to be able to "read".
she was a beaten down abused women who snapped. why don't you have any mercy ? you can tell that man was a control freak. IM not saying she should have shot him but I believe her account

Hi Thad! Long time, no see.

I'll say that I respectfully disagree with your opinion. :D Don't have time to argue with you this time. :D

[Sherri]

come on sherri, you're a woman you ought to be able to "read".
she was a beaten down abused women who snapped. why don't you have any mercy ? you can tell that man was a control freak. IM not saying she should have shot him but I believe her accountI guess because I know too many people in the town and in that church; I just think at some point there would have been a few clues. I don't think the majority of the people who really knew them believe this story. It's a very small town.

[Thad]

I guess because I know too many people in the town and in that church; I just think at some point there would have been a few clues. I don't think the majority of the people who really knew them believe this story. It's a very small town.

small towns are clanish and in the south , usually take up for the man

The jury had more info then then Town obviously

[Sherri]

small towns are clanish and in the south , usually take up for the man

The jury had more info then then Town obviouslyCould be, but from what came out in the media, I have my doubts. I am usually a mercy person through and through, but this one just threw me. I just think since he was dead, she could say anything she wanted and there was no one to defend him. No one will ever know the entire truth.

[ILG]

I guess because I know too many people in the town and in that church; I just think at some point there would have been a few clues. I don't think the majority of the people who really knew them believe this story. It's a very small town.

There have been people who came into the DV shelter where I work that have shocked my socks off.

[CC1]

Could be, but from what came out in the media, I have my doubts. I am usually a mercy person through and through, but this one just threw me. I just think since he was dead, she could say anything she wanted and there was no one to defend him. No one will ever know the entire truth.

Yup. In almost every instance of spousal abuse SOMEONE else knew about it. Usually the wife had unexplained bruises, broken bones, etc that other people noticed or she confided in a friend or relative who kept her secret.

This woman has zero collaberation to her claims. When she was arrested she did not make the claim of spousal abuse, only that he criticized her for things.

I notice all of the folks who wanted her to get off and think she is some sort of innocent little woman have never addressed the facts I pointed out about her ruining their finances with that goofy Nigerian internet scam then digging a deeper hole by opening an out of town checking account to try and kite checks to cover the huge amount they were overdrawn in their hometown checking account.

No doubt she was stressed from her actions and no doubt he may have criticized her, but she is no innocent little lady and there is no proof he was abusive.

Justice was a joke here.

[Thad]

There have been people who came into the DV shelter where I work that have shocked my socks off.

SHOCKED you in what way /?

[CC1]

There have been people who came into the DV shelter where I work that have shocked my socks off.

You should be wearing panty hose, not socks, anyway!!!

[Sherri]

Yup. In almost every instance of spousal abuse SOMEONE else knew about it. Usually the wife had unexplained bruises, broken bones, etc that other people noticed or she confided in a friend or relative who kept her secret.

This woman has zero collaberation to her claims. When she was arrested she did not make the claim of spousal abuse, only that he criticized her for things.

I notice all of the folks who wanted her to get off and think she is some sort of innocent little woman have never addressed the facts I pointed out about her ruining their finances with that goofy Nigerian internet scam then digging a deeper hole by opening an out of town checking account to try and kite checks to cover the huge amount they were overdrawn in their hometown checking account.

No doubt she was stressed from her actions and no doubt he may have criticized her, but she is no innocent little lady and there is no proof he was abusive.

Justice was a joke here.I think we are the minority on here CC1.

[Tina]

Yup. In almost every instance of spousal abuse SOMEONE else knew about it. Usually the wife had unexplained bruises, broken bones, etc that other people noticed or she confided in a friend or relative who kept her secret.

This woman has zero collaberation to her claims. When she was arrested she did not make the claim of spousal abuse, only that he criticized her for things.

I notice all of the folks who wanted her to get off and think she is some sort of innocent little woman have never addressed the facts I pointed out about her ruining their finances with that goofy Nigerian internet scam then digging a deeper hole by opening an out of town checking account to try and kite checks to cover the huge amount they were overdrawn in their hometown checking account.

No doubt she was stressed from her actions and no doubt he may have criticized her, but she is no innocent little lady and there is no proof he was abusive.

Justice was a joke here.

I agree. Something just wasn't right about this story she told. The reputation of her defense attorney in this area is enough to convince me that most of the story was probably mostly "created" for effect... anything to get her off with less of a sentence-- or for her to walk away scotfree.

[CC1]

I think we are the minority on here CC1.

We will just have to adopt the ultra con position on this. Here goes;

"It may just be us four and no more but we are RIGHT and everybody else is WRONG!!!!!":happydance

[tamor]

We will just have to adopt the ultra con position on this. Here goes;

"It may just be us four and no more but we are RIGHT and everybody else is WRONG!!!!!":happydance


Make it five!! I don't agree with Thad either!!

:grampa

[rgcraig]

...and we'll never know for sure who is right.

[tamor]

...and we'll never know for sure who is right.


There are only two people who know the truth. God and Mary Winkler....

[Thad]

Make it five!! I don't agree with Thad either!!

:grampa



and you have a terrible evening too !!!

[tamor]

and you have a terrible evening too !!!


That was not nice!! :grampa

:ignore :ignore

[ILG]

SHOCKED you in what way /?

Who they were and why they came in.

[TalkLady]

I believe I heard that Mary Winkler was sentenced today to 7 months for killing her pastor husband (Church of Christ) and that she has already served 5 months!

[LaGirl]

Mary Winkler Sentenced to 3 Years for Killing Husband, May End Up Serving Only 60 Days

SELMER, Tenn. — A woman who killed her preacher husband with a shotgun blast to the back as he lay in bed was sentenced Friday to three years in prison, but with time served could be released on probation in a little more than two months.
Mary Winkler must serve at least 210 days of her sentence but gets credit for the 143 days she has already spent in jail, Judge Weber McCraw said.
That leaves 67 days, and McCraw said up to 60 days of the sentence could be served in a facility where she could receive mental health treatment. That means Winkler might spend only another week in jail.

[berkeley]

She is guilty!!! May she burn!!!!!!

[Trouvere]

She must have a Paris Hilton connection.

[tamor]

She is guilty!!! May she burn!!!!!!

I don't want her to burn. Just to do appropriate time!

[berkeley]

I don't want her to burn. Just to do appropriate time!

I said "may she burn." Not that I wanted her to burn. Anyway, burn has so many meanings... :poloroid