Hellfire, Love or a mix?

[JTTNMinistries]

What do you think is more effective in reaching people- hellfire preaching or mercy/love preaching? Jesus preached on hell more than he did on heaven. The book of Acts primarily has preaching about Jesus as the "judge of the earth."

What are your perceptions about hellfire vs. mercy/love preaching? What kind of preaching were you saved under?

[Shawn]

Love and the Cross.

[rava61]

Jesus can talk about 'hell' because He knew what He was talking about; however, I think we have much to learn before we say anything about it.

The Church's mission is to get the message to the lost....not point out what they think is sin or not sin - leave that to the One who knows for sure.

[A.W. Bowman]

Ready for another long-winded message? If not, just skip over the next few posts, you will not be missing very much.

[A.W. Bowman]

Doesn’t what one preach depend a lot on who you are preaching to?

Personally, after almost 40 years of walking with Jesus, I get a little tired of being told that if I do not repent and live a life as defined and required by the pastor, I will go to hell.

On the other hand, I also get tired of hearing of a gushy love-sick god who simply can’t wait to shower me with everything I want, desire, need, and even add more stuff than that upon my growing heap of goodies.

It seems like we have two different Gods that we claim to follow. One is a fire and brimstone breathing judge, just waiting for a person to stumble just so he can smite the offender down and crush him – something like Job’s initial experience. The other god is a supper Wal-Mart owner, where one is given a free, unlimited credit card and told the heavenly store is open 24/7/365/forever, if you don’t see what you want, just ask and we’ll order it for you..

The results are predictable. We have some “coming to Christ” so they won’t get their tails singed – buying heavenly fire insurance. The other result is a growing number of health and wealth, name it and claim it heavenly welfare country club members.

In both of these extremes, we have become a religion of “mental assent” believers. That is, we accept a god that is currently preached from the pulpit this Sunday, but without a heart-felt convection rooted in a personal encounter with the creator of the universe. We are guilty of substituting religious performance for spiritual substance. Ask Christians around the “third-world” what their experience of God is. Most of them share Job’s visitation of Satan, and are denied the use of the heavenly credit card that the western church seems to enjoy.

The question then becomes twofold. What does one preach to “sinners” and what does one preach to “believers”? A third question would be, “What do you preach to a congregation filled with both believers and unbelievers?” Of course, according to 1 Corinthians 14:26-33, a passage not often preached in church, we can get a rather good summation of what is to be taught within an assembly – regardless of who is in attendance. More specific instruction can be gleamed from 1 Corinthians 14:22, concerning speaking in tongues and prophesying. But, we have a problem with teaching and applying that passage as well.

[A.W. Bowman]

When an unbeliever walks down most any big city street (especially in my town), he is met with literally churches on every corner. At least one church in my area owns and occupies an entire former shopping mall), In some places there are literally a number of churches next door to each other. Each of these churches claim to have and to teach “the truth”. So, come join with us and forsake all of those other “false churches”. Confusing? Well, what about those churches with the same organizational name over the door, that denounces the other churches in the same town for not preaching the “truth”? And, we still pray for revival?

I tell you the truth. No one is going to biblically repent of anything, to anyone, until they become aware of, and become crushed under the enormity of their sin before the holy majesty of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It is only then that the ministry and sacrifice of Jesus Christ becomes apparent in its full scope and expression of absolute love. I have heard the question asked, “Are you saved? Saved from what? Hell? Are you saved from lying? Are you saved form stealing, from adultery? Just what you saved from?” Implied is the question, “What are you saved to?” Acts 2:38 is not the gospel of the kingdom of God; it’s the expected response to the gospel. Most of us really do not know what Jesus and His apostils taught concerning the kingdom!

Many people have been preached into the kingdom through fear and intimidation. Many of these folks have become so fearful that they can’t do enough in their own eyes (or in the opinion of others) to justify their God provided forgiveness. When we preach hellfire to these folks, they redouble their effort to get everything just “right”. We call such believers, “legalists”. But, there are two sides of that coin. We also have those who “know” that they have everything just “right”. Both of these types of individuals generally become hypercritical of others, in order to maintain their belief (self-justification) that they are acceptable unto God. “See, God, I am being good and I got it right!” We call these people, “Self-righteous” or, “holier than thou” saints. (Luke 18:10-14).

Then we have those who are preached into the kingdom with the promise of piece, joy, happiness and other such benefits. We withhold from these new converts the truth of the nature of these spiritual promises. Then, when their expectations are not met, these folks leave the church and look elsewhere for their spiritual fulfillment. We call these disillusioned saints, “backsliders”. Should these love-struck saints find a reason to remain in the church, we often call them “liberals”.

[A.W. Bowman]

For the majority of us church goers, we have simply become comfortable and satisfied with our current positions, labels, and level of participation within the church organization/body, and love the experience we enjoy in corporate worship (read, crowd manipulation - cheerleader -¬ into an altered state of conscience). However, after the excitement of the moment wears off, the weekly preaching and teaching fails to touch us in our hearts, so there is little noticeable effect on our lives. Our personal relationship with Jesus remains unaltered – unimproved, as with the other members of the assembly. What changes we do see, is frequently is the result of the preacher’s power of persuasion (charisma) and not from a spiritual convection, as an act (impact) of God’s Spirit on our heart.

There is one saving grace out of all of this mess that we have created for ourselves. God is still faithful to His word (His promises and also His curses!). God still responds to the prayers of the sinners He has drawn to Himself – in spite of some of the collective efforts of the churches to control both God and the believers. God is still in the business of maturing believers through the process of continuing relationships, for those willing to travel that path with Him. God still shows up in a service, responding to the uncompromising faith of individuals. This one fact alone, should give us all hope. Even so, when the unbelief of the majorly rises up, not even Jesus Christ walking in the flesh can work miracles, save, perhaps that He can heal a few!

Conclusion: Teach sinners what sin is and why it is worthy of God’s righteous judgment. Teach sinners what their sin consists of and why they are worthy of judgment. Bring them to the point where they can see their sin and what it is – for them selves! Without this personal realization, there is no reason for repentance, except as another mental assent to the theory (idea) of sin, but not repentance of the actual sin its self. Teach sinners what God’s judgment is and why they deserve it. Then teach sinners the love of God and why He is merciful toward us. Then teach the sinners the cost (responsibilities and obligations) they must pay for the honor of becoming a child of God, what it takes and what it means to enter into a blood convenient with God. It is NOT a one-sided convenient, where He gives and we take!

Now you know what the job of an evangelist is and why it is necessary to support this ministry with offerings. It is a fulltime calling that covers the world. Of course, we are all called to share the reason for our hope to everyone who asks. We are also called upon to minister one to another (throughout the entire body of Christ). The body of our Lord Jesus is not fragmented, except in our own hearts.

What to teach believing saints of God? Teach the saints how to live an overcoming life and how to walk in the Spirit of God. Follow the assembly service outline as noted in Corinthians 14:26-33, and remember:

God is! Jesus is God’s Messiah because the reset of us do not measure up. Everything else is commentary. Now, go and study.

[A.W. Bowman]

End of missive.

[jaxfam6]

I would say to follow Peter's example. What did he preach on the day of Pentecost? How many does it say were saved that day?

Think that is who I would pattern myself after when it comes to preaching

[JTTNMinistries]

I tell you the truth. No one is going to biblically repent of anything, to anyone, until they become aware of, and become crushed under the enormity of their sin before the holy majesty of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. It is only then that the ministry and sacrifice of Jesus Christ becomes apparent in its full scope and expression of absolute love. I have heard the question asked, “Are you saved? Saved from what? Hell? Are you saved from lying? Are you saved form stealing, from adultery? Just what you saved from?” Implied is the question, “What are you saved to?” Acts 2:38 is not the gospel of the kingdom of God; it’s the expected response to the gospel. Most of us really do not know what Jesus and His apostils taught concerning the kingdom!

This is true. I agree with most of what you have posted. The real point is that we cannot box ourselves into preaching only one thing, whether it be love, mercy, hell, destruction, 2nd coming etc. We must be cautious to preach the whole council of God and be sensitive to the Holy Spirit's leading on what we should preach or say to a person at any given time.

One time I was preaching straight hellfire and damnation at a college campus and a small group of students came up to me and said "We can tell that you care about us. We really feel the love of God coming form you." They stayed and talked with me for over an hour. I was shocked that hellfire preaching presented them with a loving feeling.

We should always preach what God would have for us at the time I suppose.

[Timmy]

I believe in full disclosure. Tell them:

1. The list of sins. They are probably sinning without even knowing it.

2. The penalty for sinning. They sure better know that, so they will be motivated to keep listening for #3.

3. The full list of requirements to avoid the penalty. Or they can't make an informed decision whether to pay the price themselves (#2) or go through the effort to avoid it.

[Michael The Disciple]

Hell fire preaching is essential to the full gospel message. The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. Preach it to the sinners that they may know the results of sinful living and rejection of the Messiah.

Preach it to the Saints on occasion. Why? I would venture to say that most have never heard a FULL MESSAGE taught on it! Yes they have been hit with the shotgun type preaching where it is mentioned as part of a sermon about something else.....but to be taught from the scriptures? I would say it is rare.

The Saints need to hear because Yeshua DOES threaten those who dont overcome that they will be blotted out of the book of life. Rev. 3:5. It helps one be motivated to press on when sometimes love alone will not.

Having said that and being persuaded of it a lot more LOVE also needs to be taught. Our spirits need to overflow with Yeshua's life and compassion. In general Pastors and Teachers should have time over the course of a lifetime to preach the whole counsel of God.

[Michael The Disciple]

It seems like we have two different Gods that we claim to follow. One is a fire and brimstone breathing judge, just waiting for a person to stumble just so he can smite the offender down and crush him – something like Job’s initial experience.

You know I have heard people say something like this for many, many years. Yet in my walk with Jesus Christ I would be hard pressed to think of any Preacher I have heard who would fit your description here.

[jaxfam6]

All Peter needed on the day of Pentecost was this: Acts 2 14But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judaea, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words:

15For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.

16But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;

17And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

19And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke:

20The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and notable day of the Lord come:

21And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

22Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know:

23Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:

24Whom God hath raised up, having loosed the pains of death: because it was not possible that he should be holden of it.

25For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, for he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

26Therefore did my heart rejoice, and my tongue was glad; moreover also my flesh shall rest in hope:

27Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

28Thou hast made known to me the ways of life; thou shalt make me full of joy with thy countenance.

29Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.

30Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;

31He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

32This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

33Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

34For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,

35Until I make thy foes thy footstool.

36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?


now how many does it say was saved that day?

41Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.

hmmmmmm

In 1 Corinthians 2 Paul writes
1And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.

2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

Doesn't seem to me that all this hellfire stuff is needed. If you can scare them INTO the kingdom someone else can scare them OUT of it.

Preach Jesus to them and let that touch their hearts. Let them fall in love with Him, don't try to scare them into loving Him.

[nahkoe]

Doesn't seem to me that all this hellfire stuff is needed. If you can scare them INTO the kingdom someone else can scare them OUT of it.

Preach Jesus to them and let that touch their hearts. Let them fall in love with Him, don't try to scare them into loving Him.

Exactly.

Separation from a God they're already separated from isn't all that daunting to most people.

But the Love of God, that touches hearts and speaks to hurts and heals and draws and woos.

Separation from the Love of God becomes an intensely daunting thing after you have experienced it.

[jaxfam6]

Exactly.

Separation from a God they're already separated from isn't all that daunting to most people.

But the Love of God, that touches hearts and speaks to hurts and heals and draws and woos.

Separation from the Love of God becomes an intensely daunting thing after you have experienced it.

Very true. I think that this is why many who have been seperated from Him do not come back. The God they were taught about was not a God of love and forgiveness. They only knew about the angry God that punishes you for everything. They were not taught about how he loves them more than anything.

[nahkoe]

Very true. I think that this is why many who have been seperated from Him do not come back. The God they were taught about was not a God of love and forgiveness. They only knew about the angry God that punishes you for everything. They were not taught about how he loves them more than anything.

This was definitely true for me. It took a long, long time for Him to convince me that He loves me and that nothing I had done changed that in the slightest.

[jaxfam6]

This was definitely true for me. It took a long, long time for Him to convince me that He loves me and that nothing I had done changed that in the slightest.

I think it took being a parent and having a trial hit us. Once I had an issue to deal with that was 'major' I knew then that if I loved my sons that much then how much more does God love us. Took me a long time to understand it too I guess
=)

[Michael The Disciple]

Thats funny, if its all love why is the Bible chock full of warnings of judgment and punishment for evil? Are we reading the same Bible?

[Timmy]

I believe in full disclosure. Tell them:

1. The list of sins. They are probably sinning without even knowing it.

2. The penalty for sinning. They sure better know that, so they will be motivated to keep listening for #3.

3. The full list of requirements to avoid the penalty. Or they can't make an informed decision whether to pay the price themselves (#2) or go through the effort to avoid it.

Every church should publish their views of the above, so everyone can choose which one they like best!

:winkgrin

[jaxfam6]

Thats funny, if its all love why is the Bible chock full of warnings of judgment and punishment for evil? Are we reading the same Bible?

It is not all about love but it certainly is one of the most MAJOR things. I would much rather win someone to Him by showing them his love and compassion than trying to scare hell out of them. I have seen that done and it doesn't seem to work very well. Plus most of those I know that all they do is worry about the angry God are not very happy people.
It didn't take preaching hells fire on the day of Pentecost, why should it take it now?

[Michael The Disciple]

It is not all about love but it certainly is one of the most MAJOR things. I would much rather win someone to Him by showing them his love and compassion than trying to scare hell out of them. I have seen that done and it doesn't seem to work very well. Plus most of those I know that all they do is worry about the angry God are not very happy people.
It didn't take preaching hells fire on the day of Pentecost, why should it take it now?

One sermon may not tell the whole story.

Notice the effect Pauls preaching had on the Governor he witnessed to.

23: And he commanded a centurion to keep Paul, and to let him have liberty, and that he should forbid none of his acquaintance to minister or come unto him.
24: And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ.
25: And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee. Acts 24:23-25

What was Paul preaching? Righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come. Upon hearing Felix trembled. Apparently Paul felt this was to be included in his witness. We are to preach the word. The results are up to God.

[Sister Alvear]

something else that might be important is no man can come to Christ UNLESS the spirit draws him...we must be sensitive to the Spirit´s bidding and follow the Spirit...God know what every group we speak to needs to hear...

[jaxfam6]

One sermon may not tell the whole story.

Notice the effect Pauls preaching had on the Governor he witnessed to.

23: And he commanded a centurion to keep Paul, and to let him have liberty, and that he should forbid none of his acquaintance to minister or come unto him.
24: And after certain days, when Felix came with his wife Drusilla, which was a Jewess, he sent for Paul, and heard him concerning the faith in Christ.
25: And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee. Acts 24:23-25

What was Paul preaching? Righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come. Upon hearing Felix trembled. Apparently Paul felt this was to be included in his witness. We are to preach the word. The results are up to God.

Judgement to come does not have to mean a hells fire and damnation message. Sin is sin and needs preached against but I do not see that as hells fire preaching. When you harp and condemn everyone to hell for every thing they do and when you try to scare them into the kingdom it is how I see it. You can preach against sin and about coming judgement and still preach about Jesus Christ and Christ curcified and win souls.

[Michael The Disciple]

Judgement to come does not have to mean a hells fire and damnation message. Sin is sin and needs preached against but I do not see that as hells fire preaching. When you harp and condemn everyone to hell for every thing they do and when you try to scare them into the kingdom it is how I see it. You can preach against sin and about coming judgement and still preach about Jesus Christ and Christ curcified and win souls.

Sorry friend but there seems to be a definite trend going on to water down the message of eternal judgment. After all it IS one of the foundation doctrines of the Church. I think people are ashamed of the message of hell fire. Whens the last time anyone heard it taught?

Fear is one heck of a motivator. If you dont believe me read the Bible. You will see it preached by practically all of its writers. Why? Because the one who inspired its writing moved them to write such things.

[jaxfam6]

Sorry friend but there seems to be a definite trend going on to water down the message of eternal judgment. After all it IS one of the foundation doctrines of the Church. I think people are ashamed of the message of hell fire. Whens the last time anyone heard it taught?

Fear is one heck of a motivator. If you dont believe me read the Bible. You will see it preached by practically all of its writers. Why? Because the one who inspired its writing moved them to write such things.

Thing is I don't see anywhere in the Bible where they used the fear to win souls. Every where in the Bible when it talks about souls being won to the kingdom they are learn about Jesus and Him being the Messiah. The rest comes through teaching to those that are already saved. And the ones who heard about judgement were usually already pretty bad people and I don't remember many, if any, of them ACTUALLY coming into the kingdom. One was just almost persuaded and needed a more convient time. Doesn't sound like a very effective witness and soul saving tool to me.
Is it important to learn about? Yes I think it is. But there is something to be said for the old adage "you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar"

[ShaunGains2010]

i think a mix of both and the question is how. I am taught that you do not use Acts 2:38 to kill someone, but to save a wretched sinful soul. So hellfire is needed as well.

[Aquila]

I believe the Bible should be our guide regarding how preaching is approached.

One thing Paul said about church gatherings in I Corinthians should be mentioned. Paul taught the Corinthians,

I Corinthians 14:26
26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church.

All preaching and teaching should be for the strengthening of the church. Sadly, a diet of excessive "hellfire" teaching or preaching leaves the saints spiritually malnourished and it reflects in their judgmental or fearful attitude when approaching spiritual things. However, there is a time for spiritual discipline when God reveals sin in the church. Paul told Timothy,

1 Timothy 5:20
Them that sin rebuke before all, that others also may fear.

2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.

I believe that stern and sharp rebukes should be prefaced with an appeal to how much the elder loves the saints and how this message is difficult for him to deliver.