View Full Version : Infilling of Holy Spirit in OT?
StillStanding
04-26-2009, 03:55 PM
Could someone explain these verses in the OT? Was there an infilling of the Holy Spirit before Pentecost?
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, [and] his people, [saying], Where [is] he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where [is] he that put his holy Spirit within him?
Isa 63:12 That led [them] by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?
Praxeas
04-26-2009, 04:17 PM
Could someone explain these verses in the OT? Was there an infilling of the Holy Spirit before Pentecost?
Psa 51:11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me.
Isa 63:11 Then he remembered the days of old, Moses, [and] his people, [saying], Where [is] he that brought them up out of the sea with the shepherd of his flock? where [is] he that put his holy Spirit within him?
Isa 63:12 That led [them] by the right hand of Moses with his glorious arm, dividing the water before them, to make himself an everlasting name?
It was a prophetic anointing prophets, priests and kings had
HeavenlyOne
04-26-2009, 04:27 PM
It was a prophetic anointing prophets, priests and kings had
I'm interested in knowing how you came to that conclusion.
Praxeas
04-26-2009, 04:33 PM
I'm interested in knowing how you came to that conclusion.
Very easy...read the OT and look at the times it is mentioned someone is or has the Spirit of God....it was always prophets, priests and kings and Kings like King David prophesied
mizpeh
04-26-2009, 05:05 PM
There are other verses also. And they all had a common sign then that the Spirit of God came into them just as we do today only they prophesied.
The 70 elders of Israel with Moses.
Numbers 11: And the LORD came down in a cloud, and spake unto him, and took of the spirit that was upon him, and gave it unto the seventy elders: and it came to pass, that, when the spirit rested upon them, they prophesied, and did not cease.
John the Baptist and his mother.
Luke 1:13 But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. 14 And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. 15 For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb.
Luke 1:41 And it came to pass, that, when Elisabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elisabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost:
Nehemiah 9:30Yet many years didst thou forbear them, and testifiedst against them by thy spirit in thy prophets: yet would they not give ear: therefore gavest thou them into the hand of the people of the lands.
1 Peter 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into.
In the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit was active in and upon people but most folks did not have a personal experience and personal realization of God being with/in them. There was a "special" class of people upon whom the Spirit came and released His gifts and anointing. Often the gift was prophecy as in the case of Saul (1 Samuel 10:6-10) or the elders in Exodus 11:16-30) but some times it was wisdom or miracles or special gifting as with Bezaleel in Exodus 35:30-35. The prophet Joel foretold a time when God would pour out His Spirit on "all" flesh and men, women, servants, and handmaidens would all prophesy (Joel 2:23-32). Not just a few people with special offices but the outpouring would be available universally. This began to be fulfilled in Jerusalem in AD 30 on the Day of Pentecost as described in Acts chapter 2. Peter quoted from Joel's prophecy to explain what was going on. What's neat about the New Testament is that the Holy Spirit's baptism, empowering, and releasing of gifts is available for ALL. And just as those who were filled with the Spirit in the Old Testament were used by God in signs, miracles, gifts, etc, now in the New Testament we can all be used that way through the Holy Ghost Baptism.
It is my understanding that a word for prophesy in the Old Tesament is naba (naw-baw') which means to speak by inspiration or to bubble up. Just as in the Old Testament the Spirit coming upon one could cause them to "bubble up" and speak ecstatic words and do special works, in the New Testament the Spirit coming upon us can cause us to bubble up and speak ecstatic words in tongues and/or in prophecy and do special works.
nahkoe
04-26-2009, 07:43 PM
It is my understanding that a word for prophesy in the Old Tesament is naba (naw-baw') which means to speak by inspiration or to bubble up. Just as in the Old Testament the Spirit coming upon one could cause them to "bubble up" and speak ecstatic words and do special works, in the New Testament the Spirit coming upon us can cause us to bubble up and speak ecstatic words in tongues and/or in prophecy and do special works.
Exactly. The meanings are the same.
mizpeh
04-26-2009, 07:56 PM
The Spirit of God was IN the prophets of the OT. Moses wished all of God's people were filled with the Spirit of God. His desire was to come true through Christ who he foreshadowed and typified.
IMO, only a small percentage of God's people in the OT were filled with the Holy Spirit, all who received the Spirit prophesied, and it was not a requirement for salvation.
nahkoe
04-26-2009, 08:01 PM
IMO, only a small percentage of God's people in the OT were filled with the Holy Spirit, all who received the Spirit prophesied, and it was not a requirement for salvation.
Exactly...
KWSS1976
04-27-2009, 07:13 AM
Elizabeth was filled with the Holyghost..Old testestament
Elizabeth was filled with the Holyghost..Old testestament
Her son, John the Baptizer, was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother's womb (Luke 1:15) way before he could even talk. Actually, when Elizabeth was about 6 months pregnant and Mary (the mother of her Lord, Luke 1:43)came to visit her, the baby (fetus) leapt for joy (Luke 1:44) in her womb. Here Jesus is an embryo and Elizabeth refers to him as "my Lord."
Praxeas
04-27-2009, 12:30 PM
Her son, John the Baptizer, was filled with the Holy Ghost from his mother's womb (Luke 1:15) way before he could even talk. Actually, when Elizabeth was about 6 months pregnant and Mary (the mother of her Lord, Luke 1:43)came to visit her, the baby (fetus) leapt for joy (Luke 1:44) in her womb. Here Jesus is an embryo and Elizabeth refers to him as "my Lord."
Sounds like another case of the prophetic anointing
Sounds like another case of the prophetic anointing
yes, but without a verbal prophecy at the time
edjen01
04-27-2009, 12:38 PM
The Spirit of God was IN the prophets of the OT. Moses wished all of God's people were filled with the Spirit of God. His desire was to come true through Christ who he foreshadowed and typified.
IMO, only a small percentage of God's people in the OT were filled with the Holy Spirit, all who received the Spirit prophesied, and it was not a requirement for salvation.
salvation requirements changed in the OT and were generaly very specific. In Noah's day it was getting on the ark. However....under the Abrahamic covenant and Mosaic covenant...I'm not sure salvation is the issue or point of these covenants. One would sacrifice to atone for sins...but there is no mention of salvation like in the NT.
salvation requirements changed in the OT and were generaly very specific. In Noah's day it was getting on the ark. However....under the Abrahamic covenant and Mosaic covenant...I'm not sure salvation is the issue or point of these covenants. One would sacrifice to atone for sins...but there is no mention of salvation like in the NT.
Salvation has always been by faith, believing God, whether in the case of Adam or anyone until today.
edjen01
04-27-2009, 12:41 PM
this sounds like much more than a prophetic annointing.
John 20:21-23
21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you.
22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost:
23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained
KJV
edjen01
04-27-2009, 12:42 PM
Salvation has always been by faith, believing God, whether in the case of Adam or anyone until today.
where in the Abrahamic and Mosaic covenants...is salvation by faith?
where in the Abrahamic and Mosaic covenants...is salvation by faith?
Well, Genesis 15:6 says that Avram believed God and that God counted or imputed it to him for righteousness. Paul uses that verse in his argument in Romans chapter 4 that he was justified before he was circumcised and before the law was given to Moses.
The theme of justification by faith which Paul quotes 3 times in the New Testament (Romans 1:17; Galatians 3:11; Hebrews 10:38) and that is found in Havakuk which is part of our Old Testament.
Hebrews chapter 11 speaks of many throughout the Old Testament who were people of faith. They did not receive faith because of what they did. They did what they did because they had faith.
Digging4Truth
04-27-2009, 12:52 PM
Isn't that what Joel said would happen when the Holy Spirit was poured out?
Your sons & daughters will prophesy.... visions would be seen etc.
The fact that those in the OT who were said to have the Holy Spirit in them prophesied only speaks more to the possibility that it would be the same spirit.
Isn't that what Joel said would happen when the Holy Spirit was poured out?
Your sons & daughters will prophesy.... visions would be seen etc.
The fact that those in the OT who were said to have the Holy Spirit in them prophesied only speaks more to the possibility that it would be the same spirit.
And, one of the meanings of the word prophesy (naw-baw) is to bubble up. One of the things which happens when the Spirit comes upon people, is that they bubble up with ecstatic utterances.
edjen01
04-27-2009, 01:07 PM
Well, Genesis 15:6 says that Avram believed God and that God counted or imputed it to him for righteousness. Paul uses that verse in his argument in Romans chapter 4 that he was justified before he was circumcised and before the law was given to Moses.
The theme of justification by faith which Paul quotes 3 times in the New Testament (Romans 1:17; Galatians 3:11; Hebrews 10:38) and that is found in Havakuk which is part of our Old Testament.
Hebrews chapter 11 speaks of many throughout the Old Testament who were people of faith. They did not receive faith because of what they did. They did what they did because they had faith.
because these men/women had faith...does not mean that the OT covenants promised salvation by faith...like in the NT. These covenants were based on obediance...regardless of faith.
Also...these covenants did not promise salvation like in the NT. The Abrhamic and Mosaic covenants were not about salvation.
Digging4Truth
04-27-2009, 01:15 PM
because these men/women had faith...does not mean that the OT covenants promised salvation by faith...like in the NT. These covenants were based on obediance...regardless of faith.
Also...these covenants did not promise salvation like in the NT. The Abrhamic and Mosaic covenants were not about salvation.
Actually I think that is where the point is missed.
The law was weak because of flesh... possibly stating that the weakness of our flesh was that we couldn't see the intent of the law for the forest of obediences that we keep heaping upon ourselves.
Who caught God's attention? Among others... David... A man who caught on to the fact that God loved praise as a sacrifice. Though, in his lifetime, he was a murderer and an adulterer he was still a man after God's own heart because when it came to righteousness... David "got it"
The laws of God portrayed God's righteousness to us but our flesh keep seeing the laws as the goal rather than the righteousness they portrayed.
StillStanding
04-27-2009, 03:03 PM
Exodus 35:30-35 (King James Version)
30And Moses said unto the children of Israel, See, the LORD hath called by name Bezaleel the son of Uri, the son of Hur, of the tribe of Judah;
31And he hath filled him with the spirit of God, in wisdom, in understanding, and in knowledge, and in all manner of workmanship;
32And to devise curious works, to work in gold, and in silver, and in brass,
33And in the cutting of stones, to set them, and in carving of wood, to make any manner of cunning work.
34And he hath put in his heart that he may teach, both he, and Aholiab, the son of Ahisamach, of the tribe of Dan.
35Them hath he filled with wisdom of heart, to work all manner of work, of the engraver, and of the cunning workman, and of the embroiderer, in blue, and in purple, in scarlet, and in fine linen, and of the weaver, even of them that do any work, and of those that devise cunning work.
Dan Scott preached on this on Sunday. Bezaleel was filled with the spirit and the result was miraculous success in craftsmanship and business!
Christ Church had a revival like this about 15-20 years ago in their youth group. Out of the young men in that youth group, there are many very successful businessmen and millionaires today. Dave Ramsey was part of that group!
HeavenlyOne
04-27-2009, 03:33 PM
Very easy...read the OT and look at the times it is mentioned someone is or has the Spirit of God....it was always prophets, priests and kings and Kings like King David prophesied
But how do you know it was a prophetic anointing they had? And were women excluded from having the spirit also, just because we don't see them mentioned?
KWSS1976
04-27-2009, 03:38 PM
HO Elizabeth had the holyghost so women were not excluded but I have a filling you already knew this...
HeavenlyOne
04-27-2009, 04:42 PM
HO Elizabeth had the holyghost so women were not excluded but I have a filling you already knew this...
Yes, I did. She was neither a prophet nor a king, thus the reason why I'm puzzled why Prax worded it like he did.
But how do you know it was a prophetic anointing they had? And were women excluded from having the spirit also, just because we don't see them mentioned?
Women were not excluded in the OT but they were not as numerous as the men.
Miariam ministered under an anointing as a leader. In Exodus 15:20 she is called a prophetess and in Micah 6:4 she is listed as a leader along with Moses and Aaron
Deborah was a prophetess and judge (like a spiritual leader or shepherd/pastor) Judges 4:4
When the Book of the Law was found in the Temple and King Josiah wanted to inquire of the Lord they went to Huldah the prophetess in 2 Kings 2:14
Noadiah is spoken of as a prophetess in Nehemiah 6:14 and as part of a group of leaders and prophets who were against Nehemiah.
The wife of the prophet Isaiah is called a prophetess in Isaiah 8:3
Anna was a prophetess dwelling in the Temple and she prophesied over the baby Jesus, Luke 2:36-38
All through Israel's history there have been women in ministry like that but there have been no prophetic books written about their prophecies like the ones we call the major or minor prophets. A couple of books have been written about women like Ruth and Esther (and Judith) but they have not been as prominent as men in the annals of Israel's history.
What Joel prophesied was a time when a prophetic/charismatic anointing would come upon "all" (I take this to mean male and female and Jew and Gentile) flesh. The prophetic anointing would not just be a relative few here and there but this anointing (or promise as spoken of in Acts 2:16-21, 32-33, 38-39) would be for whomever the Lord would call unto Himself.
HO Elizabeth had the holyghost so women were not excluded but I have a filling you already knew this...
Both Elizabeth and her husband had a prophetic anointing but I don't think they were called "prophets." The anointing can be for things other than a vocal ministry (although they both prophesied) as in the case of Bezaleel (Exodus 35:30-35) just as the spiritual gifts listed in Ephesians 4, Romans 12, and 1 Corinthians 12 are more than being a prophet.
Yes, I did. She was neither a prophet nor a king, thus the reason why I'm puzzled why Prax worded it like he did.
I don't think Prax was stating a hard and fast rule but a generality.
Praxeas
04-27-2009, 06:30 PM
But how do you know it was a prophetic anointing they had? And were women excluded from having the spirit also, just because we don't see them mentioned?
Because the bible says they have the Spirit and they spoke in a certain way. I a woman is a prophetess she would have the Spirit
Praxeas
04-27-2009, 06:32 PM
Yes, I did. She was neither a prophet nor a king, thus the reason why I'm puzzled why Prax worded it like he did.
She was filled at that moment and she spoke something she would other wise not have known...nor anyone else knew...that Mary was carrying the Lord.
Even Saul, in his backslidem condition prophesied under the power of the Spirit, it did not mean he was always filled and it did not mean he was a prophet. Are you guys getting this yet?
HeavenlyOne
04-27-2009, 06:50 PM
Because the bible says they have the Spirit and they spoke in a certain way. I a woman is a prophetess she would have the Spirit
I don't see how the spirit given to them in the OT is seen by you as a prophetic anointing when that same spirit is given to us today without it being a prophetic anointing. In addition, Elisabeth wasn't a prophetess, neither was her son a prophet at the time of his infilling.
Also, David was not a prophet, so how was his spirit infilling seen as being that of a prophetic anointing? Am I making sense?
I guess I'm just wondering how you come to that conclusion when I don't see scripture considering it to be that way.
HeavenlyOne
04-27-2009, 06:52 PM
She was filled at that moment and she spoke something she would other wise not have known...nor anyone else knew...that Mary was carrying the Lord.
Even Saul, in his backslidem condition prophesied under the power of the Spirit, it did not mean he was always filled and it did not mean he was a prophet. Are you guys getting this yet?
Ok, that's more clear, but if we are filled with the same spirit of God, why is it not a prophetic anointing given to us today?
Ok, that's more clear, but if we are filled with the same spirit of God, why is it not a prophetic anointing given to us today?
Often, not always, in the OT the Holy Spirit was given in a special way to certain individuals and special gifts were given. This was often prophecy. Those upon whom the Spirit was poured out were a special group as far as ministry but they were no more saved than the rank and file Israelite who believed God's Word as revealed at the time.
In the New Testament, there are people who have an experience some times referred to as the Holy Ghost Baptism, the Promise of the Father, the empowering of the Spirit, the release of the Spirit, etc who are no more saved than any other believer but they exhibit and experience spiritual gifts such as prophecy and tongues (prayer language).
This is like in the early Church. There were more than 500 people who saw and believed in Jesus after His resurrection (ref 1 Corinthians 15:6) but only about one fourth of them or 120 received the Holy Ghost Baptism in Jerusalem on the Day of Pentecost as recorded in Acts chapter 2.
Steve Epley
04-27-2009, 08:12 PM
Very easy...read the OT and look at the times it is mentioned someone is or has the Spirit of God....it was always prophets, priests and kings and Kings like King David prophesied
True.
Steve Epley
04-27-2009, 08:14 PM
Dan Scott preached on this on Sunday. Bezaleel was filled with the spirit and the result was miraculous success in craftsmanship and business!
Christ Church had a revival like this about 15-20 years ago in their youth group. Out of the young men in that youth group, there are many very successful businessmen and millionaires today. Dave Ramsey was part of that group!
And yourself.:thumbsup
Praxeas
04-27-2009, 08:38 PM
I don't see how the spirit given to them in the OT is seen by you as a prophetic anointing when that same spirit is given to us today without it being a prophetic anointing. In addition, Elisabeth wasn't a prophetess, neither was her son a prophet at the time of his infilling.
Also, David was not a prophet, so how was his spirit infilling seen as being that of a prophetic anointing? Am I making sense?
I guess I'm just wondering how you come to that conclusion when I don't see scripture considering it to be that way.
Difference is THEN and TODAY. We are discussing the giving of the Spirit BEFORE Pentecost or in the Old Testament. The question is being asked why or how and the answer is it was a special anointing to do special acts on a limited basis. Not everyone had the Spirit. Prophets, Priests...special occasions like King Saul to prophesy and even Sampson.
David was a prophet. He prophesied. I already gave why the conclusion...seems Mizpeh did too and she posted scripture
Praxeas
04-27-2009, 08:38 PM
Ok, that's more clear, but if we are filled with the same spirit of God, why is it not a prophetic anointing given to us today?
Different purpose
mizpeh
04-28-2009, 09:59 AM
http://www.reclaimingthemind.org/papers/ets/2003/Hamilton/Hamilton.html
This paper discusses 5 different answers to this thread's question.
But the Spirit of the Lord clothed Gideon with Himself and took possession of him, and he blew a trumpet, and [the clan of] Abiezer was gathered to him.
Judges 6:34 Amplified Bible
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