Phillips, Craig and Dean to sing @ POA!

[Jack Shephard]

Just saw this on the PCD website. They are slated to have a concert at the POA on November 19. Does anyone know if it is just hosting the event or having for a special thing? Just curious if anyone knows. I hear that the new PCD CD is going to be a great one. I heard a cut of their version of "Revelation Song" sounds great!

[StillStanding]

Just saw this on the PCD website. They are slated to have a concert at the POA on November 19. Does anyone know if it is just hosting the event or having for a special thing? Just curious if anyone knows. I hear that the new PCD CD is going to be a great one. I heard a cut of their version of "Revelation Song" sounds great!
There's that slippery slope again! ")

[Sam]

There's that slippery slope again! ")

Well, by now, I would think the POA is considered pretty far down that "slippery slope" by many (and almost near the bottom end by some).

[n david]

This isn't new for POA. Back in 1993 or '94 they hosted the Gaither Vocal Band and Michael English - I have the video of that concert. The POA Choir sang background when Michael English did his song, "I Bowed On My Knees and Cried Holy." It was awesome.

[Monkeyman]

This isn't new for POA. Back in 1993 or '94 they hosted the Gaither Vocal Band and Michael English - I have the video of that concert. The POA Choir sang background when Michael English did his song, "I Bowed On My Knees and Cried Holy." It was awesome.I was there, great night.
Why is this a slippery slope? UPC churches have hosted concerts by mainstream artists forever. At CLC they have had MANY come through, at my church we have our local radio station hosts concerts quite a bit. It is a great releationship, we've had Rebecca St. james, Big Daddy Weave, many others and almost had PCD:(
So what? Big deal!!!

[Jack Shephard]

I think that alot of people think that any other music outside the UPC is sinful.....maybe it is something that I am over estimating it

[Sam]

I was there, great night.
Why is this a slippery slope? UPC churches have hosted concerts by mainstream artists forever. At CLC they have had MANY come through, at my church we have our local radio station hosts concerts quite a bit. It is a great releationship, we've had Rebecca St. james, Big Daddy Weave, many others and almost had PCD:(
So what? Big deal!!!

According to the doctrine of many leaders and teachers in the UPC, a person is not saved with a hope of Heaven and is not born again and therefore is not a child of God without the "three steps" of salvation. If the DJ or the Gospel artists have not been immersed in water with the name Jesus invoked over them, they are still a child of the devil --even if they speak with tongues they don't have the REAL Holyghost but some counterfeit experience. Is it right to have SINNERS on your platform? Is it right to have CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL with short sleeves, short hair, makeup and jewelry on a Pentecostal Platform and behind a Pentecostal Pulpit? Isn't this defiling the House of God?

Note. These are not my beliefs but they do represent many in Oneness Pentecost.

[Monkeyman]

According to the doctrine of many leaders and teachers in the UPC, a person is not saved with a hope of Heaven and is not born again and therefore is not a child of God without the "three steps" of salvation. If the DJ or the Gospel artists have not been immersed in water with the name Jesus invoked over them, they are still a child of the devil --even if they speak with tongues they don't have the REAL Holyghost but some counterfeit experience. Is it right to have SINNERS on your platform? Is it right to have CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL with short sleeves, short hair, makeup and jewelry on a Pentecostal Platform and behind a Pentecostal Pulpit? Isn't this defiling the House of God?

Note. These are not my beliefs but they do represent many in Oneness Pentecost.And I am telling you that at Pastor Haney's church, many artists (Katina's, PCD) have come through and held concerts, back in the day when I was young enough to be in their youth choir, we opened for Commissioned on a few occasions.

We're talking 1980's, so this is NOTHING new!

[Monkeyman]

I think that alot of people think that any other music outside the UPC is sinful.....maybe it is something that I am over estimating itNot in any circles I run in, in fact, I worked at the radio station at CLC, if we only played UPC music, Lance Appleton would have been even BIGGER:)

[Monkeyman]

No new story here folks, if people wanna cast stones at AM, they will do so anyways, this is just a side-story.

[deltaguitar]

I really don't get this. If you think someone is not saved how do you have them sing at your church. Unless, . . . they really don't believe the three-step doctrine and hold to it because of tradition.

[Jack Shephard]

Delta, this is kinda what I was thinking

[n david]

I've been waiting for U2 to come to our church for a concert ...

Probably be waiting a while on that ...

:lol

[berkeley]

I've been waiting for U2 to come to our church for a concert ...

Probably be waiting a while on that ...

:lol

Keith and Elizabeth have U2 scheduled for summer of 2010!! :thumbsup

[Jack Shephard]

U2 is coming to Phoenix in October! I am so excited. Trying to get tickets now!

[MissBrattified]

I really don't get this. If you think someone is not saved how do you have them sing at your church. Unless, . . . they really don't believe the three-step doctrine and hold to it because of tradition.

So your church only has singers or speakers who completely agree with your church doctrine?

[deltaguitar]

So your church only has singers or speakers who completely agree with your church doctrine?

Of course not. But to have someone "minister" to a church that isn't even born again seems a little confusing to me unless they really believe that person is born again.

Fundamentally, if a person has not completed the three steps they are not born again according to most UPC churches. Also, how do UPC bands or groups go and sing at other churches knowing that these churches are leading people to hell with their false doctrine. If you really believe that the only way to get to heaven is by the Acts 2:38 formula then it should be preached everywhere.

[Jack Shephard]

Of course not. But to have someone "minister" to a church that isn't even born again seems a little confusing to me unless they really believe that person is born again.

Fundamentally, if a person has not completed the three steps they are not born again according to most UPC churches. Also, how do UPC bands or groups go and sing at other churches knowing that these churches are leading people to hell with their false doctrine. If you really believe that the only way to get to heaven is by the Acts 2:38 formula then it should be preached everywhere.

Byron Cage did this. He did when he joined the music team at Eddie Longs Church in GA. He was raised PAW and thought that when he went there that they 'weren't saved." I saw this on a behind the music thing on the Gospel Music Network.

[Sam]

Delta, this is kinda what I was thinking

Well, that's what I was trying to say also.

[Sam]

U2 is coming to Phoenix in October! I am so excited. Trying to get tickets now!


is U2 coming to a UPC church?

[DividedThigh]

two things, i think it is great they are gonna be there, and two i think pcd is great, and there music awesome, dt

[Jack Shephard]

No-just to PHX

[Sam]

So your church only has singers or speakers who completely agree with your church doctrine?

There can be differences of opinion on minor doctrinal points

but

to turn your platform over to people who aren't even saved?

So much for "platform standards"

Do these folks really believe the "three step" stuff or is it just preached for tradition's sake?

I'm not slamming anyone or judging anyone.
I just think it's strange that if you believe someone who has not completed the "three-steps" is not saved and therefore not going to Heaven but it's alright to turn your platform over to them.

Or is this a missionary outreach?
If they come to our church and sing, maybe they'll get saved?

[MissBrattified]

Of course not. But to have someone "minister" to a church that isn't even born again seems a little confusing to me unless they really believe that person is born again.

Fundamentally, if a person has not completed the three steps they are not born again according to most UPC churches. Also, how do UPC bands or groups go and sing at other churches knowing that these churches are leading people to hell with their false doctrine. If you really believe that the only way to get to heaven is by the Acts 2:38 formula then it should be preached everywhere.

I don't think everyone goes by that "standard" as far as who they have in their church to sing or speak. I remember it was quite a scandal when Carroll McGruder had a Catholic priest speak in one of their services years ago. LOL!!!!! I'm 100% certain that he did NOT believe that priest was saved.

My father has allowed trinitarian friends of his to address the congregation, and I KNOW my father didn't think trinitarians were saved. So I'd have to disagree with your premise that a church (pastor) who allows a trinitarian on the platform must really believe (deep down) that the trinitarian is saved. :coffee2

[deltaguitar]

I don't think everyone goes by that "standard" as far as who they have in their church to sing or speak. I remember it was quite a scandal when Carroll McGruder had a Catholic priest speak in one of their services years ago. LOL!!!!! I'm 100% certain that he did NOT believe that priest was saved.

My father has allowed trinitarian friends of his to address the congregation, and I KNOW my father didn't think trinitarians were saved. So I'd have to disagree with your premise that a church (pastor) who allows a trinitarian on the platform must really believe (deep down) that the trinitarian is saved. :coffee2

I think you know what I am saying. Having a guest minister who is trinitarian bless the food or testify is one thing but having them lead the service is another. I do remember back when I was UPC we had a man who was AOG sing three or four songs but that caused a huge stink in the church. And right before our split our youth band sang at a baptist church before one of our youth team preached and that really upset some people.

The final straw was when we had a baptist youth band and the local AOG youth group over for a youth rally. Three weeks later the church was split and we were gone. But realize that neither our pastor nor us thought in anyway that these folks were not saved. Our purpose for having these other groups was to help open the minds of our youth and to expose older people in the church to other Christians. Maybe this is the ultimate goal of the POA and other churches who have groups who are Christian but not "Oneness". Their longterm goal might be the same as ours was, to expose their people to other groups so that fear of becoming like them will go away.

[LadyRev]

Lord forgive me...

What came to my mind after reading some these posts is as follows, but abbreviated....

The UPC/POA is D_ _ _ ed if they do and D _ _ _ ed if they don't. So why not go for it and do whatever is believed to be acceptable according to the pastor/congregation?

There...now you can gossip about "acceptable terminology" used by a preacher instead of gossiping about POA.

[Jack Shephard]

Who was gossiping about the POA?

[MissBrattified]

I think you know what I am saying. Having a guest minister who is trinitarian bless the food or testify is one thing but having them lead the service is another. I do remember back when I was UPC we had a man who was AOG sing three or four songs but that caused a huge stink in the church. And right before our split our youth band sang at a baptist church before one of our youth team preached and that really upset some people.

The final straw was when we had a baptist youth band and the local AOG youth group over for a youth rally. Three weeks later the church was split and we were gone. But realize that neither our pastor nor us thought in anyway that these folks were not saved. Our purpose for having these other groups was to help open the minds of our youth and to expose older people in the church to other Christians. Maybe this is the ultimate goal of the POA and other churches who have groups who are Christian but not "Oneness". Their longterm goal might be the same as ours was, to expose their people to other groups so that fear of becoming like them will go away.

Okay, let's take this another direction then. LOL!!!! Is PC&D a trinitarian group? As far as I know, they all believe in one God, they've all been baptized in Jesus' name, and they all have the Holy Ghost. :thumbsup

[LadyRev]

Who was gossiping about the POA?

Merriam Webster Online Dictionary:

Main Entry: 1gos·sip
Pronunciation: \ˈgä-səp\
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English gossib, from Old English godsibb, from god god + sibb kinsman, from sibb related — more at sib
Date: before 12th century
1 adialect British : godparent b: companion, crony c: a person who habitually reveals personal or sensational facts about others2 a: rumor or report of an intimate nature b: a chatty talk c: the subject matter of gossip
— gos·sip·ry \-sə-prē\ noun

[deltaguitar]

Okay, let's take this another direction then. LOL!!!! Is PC&D a trinitarian group? As far as I know, they all believe in one God, they've all been baptized in Jesus' name, and they all have the Holy Ghost. :thumbsup

Well then I don't see a problem. :thumbsup

[Jack Shephard]

OK LadyRev, but who are you accusing of doing this? I only mentioned the concert and that that I was shocked that they are going to be there. I think it is TOTALLY awesome that it is happening. I think that the UPC is on the cusp of some greater things than they have accomplished thus far. The good things that will be happening will be outside the norm or what once was. If you had me in mind on the gossip front then think again. I know that the POA are 3 steppers and the PCD aren't. Not a big deal but thought that perhaps it was an interesting talking point.

[Sam]

Maybe the POA and some of the other three-steppers "are looking our way."

[Hoovie]

According to the doctrine of many leaders and teachers in the UPC, a person is not saved with a hope of Heaven and is not born again and therefore is not a child of God without the "three steps" of salvation. If the DJ or the Gospel artists have not been immersed in water with the name Jesus invoked over them, they are still a child of the devil --even if they speak with tongues they don't have the REAL Holyghost but some counterfeit experience. Is it right to have SINNERS on your platform? Is it right to have CHILDREN OF THE DEVIL with short sleeves, short hair, makeup and jewelry on a Pentecostal Platform and behind a Pentecostal Pulpit? Isn't this defiling the House of God?

Note. These are not my beliefs but they do represent many in Oneness Pentecost.

Very few in the UPC, and even fewer that matter in any significant way.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Very few in the UPC, and even fewer that matter in any significant way.
You seriously think so? I know very, very few - if any - Oneness Pentecostals who think any trinitarian will be saved (besides the people on AFF who believe that).

[Hoovie]

You seriously think so? I know very, very few - if any - Oneness Pentecostals who think any trinitarian will be saved (besides the people on AFF who believe that).

Ok - well I know many, even in the UPC, but there was also much more to the post I quoted than that.

As to Oneness Pentecostals in general, I will say the vast majority believe some Trinitarians will be in heaven.

[GraceAmazing]

Ok - well I know many, even in the UPC, but there was also much more to the post I quoted than that.

As to Oneness Pentecostals in general, I will say the vast majority believe some Trinitarians will be in heaven.

Um, not where I come from....it's Oneness all the way, for there is no other way!

[GraceAmazing]

I will say I am not surprised the POA is having PC&D...wasn't Kenneth Phillips just there not too long ago? And the Gaither Vocal Band has sang there as well...I think it's awesome that they open their church as a musical venue to reach out to others!

When you are a leader such as AM, you are slammed if you do and slammed if you don't. Lucky for all of us he doesn't care! He just continues to do what he feels and I think he's doing an excellent job in Alex! And for the record, I am no longer UPC, so I really shouldn't have an opinion :D!!

[Hoovie]

Um, not where I come from....it's Oneness all the way, for there is no other way!

AG, I will concede that many UPC churches have such an approach. However, the UPC has only a few million members worldwide.

Using Bro Talmage French's numbers in "Our God is One", there are between 23 and 30 million "Oneness Pentecostals" in the world... "Oneness Pentecostals" being defined as those who invoke "Jesus" at baptism and teach the infilling of the Spirit is accompanied with the sign of speaking in tongues.

I doubt the majority of those believe the body of Christ is made up of only those who believe like them. There are plenty who fit the criteria and still are more mainstream - like TD Jakes and the Potter's House and Nashville's Christ Church.

[GraceAmazing]

AG, I will concede that many UPC churches have such an approach. However, the UPC has only a few million members worldwide.
Using Bro Talmage French's numbers there are between 23 and 30 million Oneness Pentecostals in the world... Oneness Pentecostals being defined as those who invoke "Jesus" at baptism and teach the infilling of the Spirit is accompanied with the sign of speaking in tongues.

I doubt the majority of those believe the body of Christ is made up of only those who believe like them.


Yes, you are right...the UPC almost always has that approach. And thank you for acknowledging the fact that the UPC is relatively small in comparison to the number of Oneness Pentecostals worldwide!! When I was UPC, I got into the rut of thinking we were the only ones with truth (well, us and the ALJC)! LOL

And I agree with your last statement!:thumbsup

[Praxeas]

Lord forgive me...

What came to my mind after reading some these posts is as follows, but abbreviated....

The UPC/POA is D_ _ _ ed if they do and D _ _ _ ed if they don't. So why not go for it and do whatever is believed to be acceptable according to the pastor/congregation?

There...now you can gossip about "acceptable terminology" used by a preacher instead of gossiping about POA.
Doiked?

[Coffee99]

Just saw this on the PCD website. They are slated to have a concert at the POA on November 19. Does anyone know if it is just hosting the event or having for a special thing? Just curious if anyone knows. I hear that the new PCD CD is going to be a great one. I heard a cut of their version of "Revelation Song" sounds great!

Not really surprising, since Dan Dean is Jonathan Dean's uncle.

[Jack Shephard]

Thought so, but still three steppers having one steppers sing is another thing. I think it a great thing for this to happen...just was interesting to me.