View Full Version : The Ten Commandments
Timmy
05-07-2009, 10:49 AM
Suppose a bill was proposed consisting of the Ten Commandments, taken right from the Bible, word for word. Would you support it? Should Congress pass it?
Timmy
05-07-2009, 10:50 AM
:popcorn2
KWSS1976
05-07-2009, 11:00 AM
Why do you go to jail if you steal timmy doesn't the bible say thought shall not steal...Some of our laws are from the bibles 10 commandments so what would the bill be for?
Timmy
05-07-2009, 11:02 AM
Why do you go to jail if you steal timmy doesn't the bible say thought shall not steal...Some of our laws are from the bibles 10 commandments so what would the bill be for?
For the rest of them! Only about 3 are laws here, today. Stealing and killing, for sure, and to some extent, bearing false witness -- perjury.
nahkoe
05-07-2009, 11:03 AM
Why do you go to jail if you steal timmy doesn't the bible say thought shall not steal...Some of our laws are from the bibles 10 commandments so what would the bill be for?
I suspect his question may have to do with legislating morality. A topic I love to discuss, but have to study! Maybe I'll reward myself for finishing a study guide by getting involved. :D
KWSS1976
05-07-2009, 11:04 AM
well not conventing your nabor I would not do that in a million years with my nabors..LOL
Timmy
05-07-2009, 11:10 AM
And No takes an early lead, 2 to 1!
Come on folks, cheer on your favorite! :lol
I voted no. How would we decide how to keep the sabbath holy?
KWSS1976
05-07-2009, 11:20 AM
I know companies need to make money but I would like to see more stores closed on sundays just to rest
nahkoe
05-07-2009, 11:21 AM
I know companies need to make money but I would like to see more stores closed on sundays just to rest
But Sunday isn't the Sabbath. lol
KWSS1976
05-07-2009, 11:22 AM
Yea your right..LOL
Timmy
05-07-2009, 11:30 AM
I voted no. How would we decide how to keep the sabbath holy?
You mean... *gasp!* ... no, it couldn't be..... the Bible isn't clear on this? :heeheehee
Timmy
05-07-2009, 11:38 AM
Don't count "Yes" out just yet! It's just two lengths behind, and it's still early! "Something else" is asleep at the gate.
Digging4Truth
05-07-2009, 12:01 PM
But Sunday isn't the Sabbath. lol
LOL... You go girl. :)
I voted no also... I think I was the first vote.
The laws of the land are not for the purpose of legislating morality.
Because of the weakness of the flesh law cannot bring about righteousness or morality whether that law be by edict of the court or the pastor.
It is the spirit of God and the Spirit of God alone that writes within our hearts the law, nature and Spirit of our God.
All attempts through law & legislation, whether legal or liturgical, will fail.
Timmy
05-07-2009, 12:10 PM
LOL... You go girl. :)
I voted no also... I think I was the first vote.
The laws of the land are not for the purpose of legislating morality.
Because of the weakness of the flesh law cannot bring about righteousness or morality whether that law be by edict of the court or the pastor.
It is the spirit of God and the Spirit of God alone that writes within our hearts the law, nature and Spirit of our God.
All attempts through law & legislation, whether legal or liturgical, will fail.
Some morality, I guess? Stealing and murder are immoral and illegal, after all.
Digging4Truth
05-07-2009, 12:17 PM
Some morality, I guess? Stealing and murder are immoral and illegal, after all.
These things are immoral... but where the laws of the land deal with them are insomuch as you have infringed upon the rights, life or property of another person.
Timmy
05-07-2009, 12:19 PM
These things are immoral... but where the laws of the land deal with them are insomuch as you have infringed upon the rights, life or property of another person.
OK.
How about you Yesses? Comments please!
These things are immoral... but where the laws of the land deal with them are insomuch as you have infringed upon the rights, life or property of another person.
What are your beliefs about gay marriage?
Digging4Truth
05-07-2009, 12:27 PM
What are your beliefs about gay marriage?
My beliefs on gay marriage exist on several levels.
1. Personal - I believe that gay marriage or any gay relationship is an act that God considers to be an abomination. It is sin. It is wrong.
2. Legal - On a Federal Level - The federal government does not have the Constitutionally granted authority to deal with matters such as this. This is a state issue and completely outside the specific powers granted the federal government. The Constitution says that all powers not specifically granted to the federal government in that document are reserved to the states and the people.
3. Legal - On the state level - If the people of a state duly vote to define marriage as a union of a man and a woman then, by the word and edict of the people, it is so.
4. Marriage - I think that the whole thing would not even be an issue had we not allowed government to begin licensing marriage. Marriage is a religious rite and should have been kept as a church procedure. If that had been done then the church would retain complete control over the definition of marriage. What government grants license for... government then controls. We ought not be too shocked that a secular government, given authority over a religious rite, has taken it in a secular direction.
LUKE2447
05-07-2009, 12:34 PM
LOL... You go girl. :)
I voted no also... I think I was the first vote.
The laws of the land are not for the purpose of legislating morality.
Because of the weakness of the flesh law cannot bring about righteousness or morality whether that law be by edict of the court or the pastor.
It is the spirit of God and the Spirit of God alone that writes within our hearts the law, nature and Spirit of our God.
All attempts through law & legislation, whether legal or liturgical, will fail.
This is absolutely absurd!
Timmy
05-07-2009, 12:35 PM
This is absolutely absurd!
:popcorn2 :popcorn2 :popcorn2
*AQuietPlace*
05-07-2009, 12:38 PM
This is absolutely absurd!
So you think a law of the land can mandate and enforce 'thou shalt have no other gods before me?'
edjen01
05-07-2009, 12:39 PM
:popcorn2 :popcorn2 :popcorn2
do you also go to dog fights?:)
Digging4Truth
05-07-2009, 12:39 PM
This is absolutely absurd!
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Paul would disagree.
Timmy
05-07-2009, 12:39 PM
do you also go to dog fights?:)
LOL! (No, but LOL!)
Digging4Truth
05-07-2009, 12:40 PM
So you think a law of the land can mandate and enforce 'thou shalt have no other gods before me?'
Apparently...
Hoovie
05-07-2009, 12:48 PM
Something could be "against the law" and recognized by authorities breach of contract and still not be heavily punished. The courts currently do this in divorce cases involving adultery.
Baron1710
05-07-2009, 12:57 PM
Something could be "against the law" and recognized by authorities breach of contract and still not be heavily punished. The courts currently do this in divorce cases involving adultery.
The court doesn't want to hear about your adultry. In fact most states no longer have fault based divorced. NC uses it to bar spousal support for the cheating party. MD still has adultry as a crime But I believe the fine is something like $15.
My beliefs on gay marriage exist on several levels.
1. Personal - I believe that gay marriage or any gay relationship is an act that God considers to be an abomination. It is sin. It is wrong.
2. Legal - On a Federal Level - The federal government does not have the Constitutionally granted authority to deal with matters such as this. This is a state issue and completely outside the specific powers granted the federal government. The Constitution says that all powers not specifically granted to the federal government in that document are reserved to the states and the people.
3. Legal - On the state level - If the people of a state duly vote to define marriage as a union of a man and a woman then, by the word and edict of the people, it is so.
4. Marriage - I think that the whole thing would not even be an issue had we not allowed government to begin licensing marriage. Marriage is a religious rite and should have been kept as a church procedure. If that had been done then the church would retain complete control over the definition of marriage. What government grants license for... government then controls. We ought not be too shocked that a secular government, given authority over a religious rite, has taken it in a secular direction.
Good points. You have pretty much the same views that my husband does.
Baron1710
05-07-2009, 01:03 PM
My mistake had to look it up, Adultry is a misdemeanor subject to a $10 fine in MD.
Hoovie
05-07-2009, 01:05 PM
The court doesn't want to hear about your adultry. In fact most states no longer have fault based divorced. NC uses it to bar spousal support for the cheating party. MD still has adultry as a crime But I believe the fine is something like $15.
But does it not have an effect in divorces with child custody disputes?
Multiple affairs especially, is viewed as a negative to the family stability.
Digging4Truth
05-07-2009, 01:57 PM
From the direction some posts are going I think it needs to be said that for one to say that they do not want the Ten Commandments made into secular law is not, in any way, to say that that some, if not most, of the issues dealt with in the 10 commandments won't be dealt with in the law and the court system.
No one is saying that all things mentioned in the 10 commandments should be totally left alone by law.
That wasn't the question posed.
I voted "no."
For one thing, I do not think human government has the right to tell us whom we must worship.
Also, the sabbath is from sunset Friday to Sunset Saturday and if we kept it according to the law of Moses (which it is a part of), we could not even light a fire or cook on that day. No work whatever would be allowed. This would be OK for the strict Jews but for the rest of us it would not be right.
Digging4Truth
05-07-2009, 02:07 PM
I voted "no."
For one thing, I do not think human government has the right to tell us whom we must worship.
Also, the sabbath is from sunset Friday to Sunset Saturday and if we kept it according to the law of Moses (which it is a part of), we could not even light a fire or cook on that day. No work whatever would be allowed. This would be OK for the strict Jews but for the rest of us it would not be right.
Amen...
A government that pushes your beliefs may well become the government that pushes someone elses later.
Would we want the US Government enforcing Muslim law? You can't trust that the government will always push Christian law. You don't want to feed an animal that may one day turn on you and eat you alive.
Amen...
A government that pushes your beliefs may well become the government that pushes someone elses later.
Would we want the US Government enforcing Muslim law? You can't trust that the government will always push Christian law. You don't want to feed an animal that may one day turn on you and eat you alive.
By the way, that's how I believe about prayer in school.
I do not think the government should prescribe what prayers we must pray in school. To me that is establishing a religion.
Teachers, administrators, and students all pray in school when they want/need to. They are free to do that as long as it is done without pushing it off on someone else.
*AQuietPlace*
05-07-2009, 02:34 PM
I voted "no."
For one thing, I do not think human government has the right to tell us whom we must worship.
Also, the sabbath is from sunset Friday to Sunset Saturday and if we kept it according to the law of Moses (which it is a part of), we could not even light a fire or cook on that day. No work whatever would be allowed. This would be OK for the strict Jews but for the rest of us it would not be right.
Sounds good to me! ;)
Digging4Truth
05-07-2009, 02:37 PM
By the way, that's how I believe about prayer in school.
I do not think the government should prescribe what prayers we must pray in school. To me that is establishing a religion.
Teachers, administrators, and students all pray in school when they want/need to. They are free to do that as long as it is done without pushing it off on someone else.
Another big Amen...
Esther
05-07-2009, 02:42 PM
I think if God said to obey His ten commandments that settles it. :)
Digging4Truth
05-07-2009, 02:48 PM
I think if God said to obey His ten commandments that settles it. :)
And if God had instructed secular government to enforce that obedience that would settle it for me too. :)
Hoovie
05-07-2009, 02:59 PM
By the way, that's how I believe about prayer in school.
I do not think the government should prescribe what prayers we must pray in school. To me that is establishing a religion.
Teachers, administrators, and students all pray in school when they want/need to. They are free to do that as long as it is done without pushing it off on someone else.
Well I agree - but not just about prayer. I do not think the government should prescribe education at all.
Public education has gone a long way in promoting functional and moral illiteracy.
Well I agree - but not just about prayer. I do not think the government should prescribe education at all.
Public education has gone a long way in promoting functional and moral illiteracy.
and government mandated curricula controls what teachers can and cannot or must and must not teach children as truth. Public mores and public acceptance of deviant life styles are promulgated by the government mandating what is taught.
LUKE2447
05-07-2009, 03:23 PM
Paul would disagree.
Not what I am talking about. Take him out of the text and the applicable points made are absurd..
You said...
"The laws of the land are not for the purpose of legislating morality."
How many of the laws are based off of the idea to protect society?
Someone said the reason the 10 commandments cannot be posted in a court room is because there are so many lawyers there, and they don't want to be told not to lie or steal.
Sept5SavedTeen
05-08-2009, 07:59 AM
It's good to see apostolic brethren who have not changed the sabbath in their minds from Saturday to Sunday! Although concerning the commandments and the law of the land I remember, when I was SDA, we feared that the 4th commandment would be implemented legally, but that Sunday would be the day of rest/worship, and those refusing to honor Sunday (Sunday being "the mark of the beast") would be persecuted...
Anyways, I'm looking forward to remembering and keeping this Sabbath holy (but obviously not as a Jew would).
These words from Isaiah are good to remember on the Sabbath:
If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honorable and shalt honor HIM, not doing thine own way
Nor seeking thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words, Then thou shalt delight thyself in the LORD, and I will cause thee to ride upon high places of the earth, and I will feed thee with the heritage of Jacob thy father, for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken it.
-Bro. Alex
Digging4Truth
05-08-2009, 08:04 AM
Not what I am talking about. Take him out of the text and the applicable points made are absurd..
You said...
"The laws of the land are not for the purpose of legislating morality."
How many of the laws are based off of the idea to protect society?
Protecting society and legislating morality are 2 different things.
As I have said before... to say that the 10 commandments should not be made the law of the land is not to say that some of the precepts touched upon will not be dealt with by the law of the land. But... when the law deals with those precepts it will be for the purpose of dealing with a person who has infringed upon the the life, rights or property of another. That is... by definition... protecting society.
But another good way to protect society is to make sure that our government doesn't get into the business of legislating morality.
Digging4Truth
05-08-2009, 08:06 AM
Don't count "Yes" out just yet! It's just two lengths behind, and it's still early! "Something else" is asleep at the gate.
I think we can safely count "Yes" out now....
Hoovie
05-08-2009, 08:21 AM
Protecting society and legislating morality are 2 different things.
As I have said before... to say that the 10 commandments should not be made the law of the land is not to say that some of the precepts touched upon will not be dealt with by the law of the land. But... when the law deals with those precepts it will be for the purpose of dealing with a person who has infringed upon the the life, rights or property of another. That is... by definition... protecting society.
But another good way to protect society is to make sure that our government doesn't get into the business of legislating morality.
You would agree that abortion should be illegal? Seems to me the term "legislating morality" is thrown at anyone who is not a liberal PC advocate.
Digging4Truth
05-08-2009, 08:27 AM
You would agree that abortion should be illegal? Seems to me the term "legislating morality" is thrown at anyone who is not a liberal PC advocate.
Absolutely.
There is no greater infringement upon a persons life, rights or property than to take the life of anyone... especially an innocent who is helpless and cannot defend themselves.
Timmy
05-08-2009, 08:58 AM
I think we can safely count "Yes" out now....
Yes 5 :kickcan
No 14 :stretch:
Something else 0 :bedtime
Light
05-08-2009, 09:33 AM
First of all the 10 commandments were written for Israel and Israel only. To place the commandments as the law of our land is foolish. Those that fight for the 10 to be placed at the courthouses of America are unlearned. God did not give them to America. The Law of Moses was ended with the death of Jesus including the 10 commandments.
Rom 10:4] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Twisp
05-08-2009, 09:39 AM
I voted no. I would not want to set a precedence for when a person not of the Christian faith came to office. If we further legislate morality based on our faith, it will swing the other way around in time.
Sept5SavedTeen
05-08-2009, 09:54 AM
First of all the 10 commandments were written for Israel and Israel only. To place the commandments as the law of our land is foolish. Those that fight for the 10 to be placed at the courthouses of America are unlearned. God did not give them to America. The Law of Moses was ended with the death of Jesus including the 10 commandments.
Rom 10:4] For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Would you say that Moses' Law was abolished or replaced?
I would say they were magnified (spiritualized), but I could be wrong, and am willing to be instructed correctly by this matter by someone who can show me otherwise.
-Bro. Alex
Digging4Truth
05-08-2009, 10:09 AM
Would you say that Moses' Law was abolished or replaced?
I would say they were magnified (spiritualized), but I could be wrong, and am willing to be instructed correctly by this matter by someone who can show me otherwise.
-Bro. Alex
In the interim... while awaiting the response to your post... I would interject this.
I would say the law was fulfilled.
Light
05-08-2009, 11:27 AM
Would you say that Moses' Law was abolished or replaced?
I would say they were magnified (spiritualized), but I could be wrong, and am willing to be instructed correctly by this matter by someone who can show me otherwise.
-Bro. Alex
I know this will start a fire storm but here goes. Look at Matt 24 where Jesus said the Temple would be destroyed, not one stone would be left upon another
Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
We know today that there are portions of the temple where there are stones one upon the other.
What then was Jesus talking about?
The Temple was the place where God dwelled. When Jesus died the veil was torn exposing the Holy Place to all. God was no longer dwelling there. The purpose of the temple had been replaced. The way of salvation was torn down to be replaced with a new and better way. God would soon be living in our hearts. The Law of Moses was no longer, it was torn down not one stone was upon another.
LUKE2447
05-08-2009, 11:30 AM
Protecting society and legislating morality are 2 different things.
As I have said before... to say that the 10 commandments should not be made the law of the land is not to say that some of the precepts touched upon will not be dealt with by the law of the land. But... when the law deals with those precepts it will be for the purpose of dealing with a person who has infringed upon the the life, rights or property of another. That is... by definition... protecting society.
But another good way to protect society is to make sure that our government doesn't get into the business of legislating morality.
This is amusing as the basic principle of "the law" was property rights which flowed from love thy neighbor. To say what you say is a contradiction of the facts andthe substance of the issue. It is the goverments job to legislate morality and many Christians would disagree with you on that. Government has always done so in the aspect of what is safe for the citizen and in many cases beyond that.
Anyone that knows me know one thing. I hate socialism and the current system in place as we have lost freedoms. The problem is government does legislate morality much farther than you think right or wrong. As a people we should be governed by law. That is no difference between Israel and now. to be governed is to be controlled in part thus what is right is acceptable and what is wrong is not. Government creates it's own morality with every law.
Digging4Truth
05-08-2009, 11:50 AM
This is amusing as the basic principlee of "the law" was property rights which flowed from love thy neighbor. To say what you say is a contradiction of the facts andthe substance of the issue. It is the goverments job to legislate morality and many Christians would disagree with you on that. Government has always done so in the aspect of what is safe for the citizen and in many cases beyond that.
Anyone that knows me know one thing. I hate socialism and the current system in place as we have lost freedoms. The problem is government does legislate morality much farther than you think right or wrong. As a people we should be governed by law. That is no difference between Israel and now. to be governed is to be controlled in part thus what is right is acceptable and what is wrong is not. Government creates it's own morality with every law.
Well we'll just leave it at that.
To me what is going on here is people bantering back and forth about what they probably agree upon when all is said and done.
One of us is calling it shrubs while the other is calling it a hedge... the same thing... different terms.
Digging4Truth
05-08-2009, 11:51 AM
I know this will start a fire storm but here goes. Look at Matt 24 where Jesus said the Temple would be destroyed, not one stone would be left upon another
Mat 24:1 And Jesus went out, and departed from the temple: and his disciples came to him for to shew him the buildings of the temple.
Mat 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.
We know today that there are portions of the temple where there are stones one upon the other.
What then was Jesus talking about?
The Temple was the place where God dwelled. When Jesus died the veil was torn exposing the Holy Place to all. God was no longer dwelling there. The purpose of the temple had been replaced. The way of salvation was torn down to be replaced with a new and better way. God would soon be living in our hearts. The Law of Moses was no longer, it was torn down not one stone was upon another.
Where are there temple stones standing one upon the other?
There are stones to the eastern wall standing one upon another....
But where are there temple stones standing one upon another?
Timmy
05-09-2009, 08:44 AM
Somebody voted 'Something else'! Somebody gonna explain?
TulsaDavid
05-09-2009, 10:42 PM
http://am.upci.org/forum/data/TulsaDavid/200959232620_fifteen.jpg
Timmy
05-09-2009, 10:50 PM
:toofunny
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