In Jesus Name

[Steve Epley]

I highly recommend "In Jesus Name" The History and Beliefs of Oneness Pentecostals by David A. Reed. It is the most comprehensive history I have read about the American Jesus Name movement. The publishers are deo publishing. The biblography is outstanding.

[Pastor Keith]

I highly recommend "In Jesus Name" The History and Beliefs of Oneness Pentecostals by David A. Reed. It is the most comprehensive history I have read about the American Jesus Name movement. The publishers are deo publishing. The biblography is outstanding.

Is this a newer work?

[MrMasterMind]

Is this a newer work?


2007

Apparently Amazon has a few copies.

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Name-History-Beliefs-Penecostals/dp/1905679017/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243611817&sr=1-1

[Encryptus]

2007

Apparently Amazon has a few copies.

http://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Name-History-Beliefs-Penecostals/dp/1905679017/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1243611817&sr=1-1

Wow sounds a little bit pricey. Elder Epley, how does it compare to Fudge's book? It is as scholarly or more a collection of biographies or what?

[Sister Alvear]

Send one to me! Ha... Well serious maybe i can get one next time am in the states...i love to read history...

[Steve Epley]

Wow sounds a little bit pricey. Elder Epley, how does it compare to Fudge's book? It is as scholarly or more a collection of biographies or what?

Fudge's work was slanted he had a point to prove. While Reed addresses this issue it is not the thesis of the book. The book is a comprehensive history of Oneness Pentecostalism. I am a student of the American Jesus Name movement this is by far the best reference book I have ever looked at. And again Mr. Reed is NOT Pentecostal though he has Pentecostal roots he work is a compliment to both his scholarship as a historian and his fairness to Pentecostals.:thumbsup

[commonsense]

I'd like to read it . I rather doubt the library would have it.
I may have to buy it! :coffee2

[Encryptus]

Fudge's work was slanted he had a point to prove.

?????

How strange. Did you actually read Fudge's book??

I have read it a couple times cover to cover and was impressed with how he went out of his way to be fair and balanced.

Could you PLEASE cite ANY incident where his rendering was slanted ?

[Sam]

?????

How strange. Did you actually read Fudge's book??

I have read it a couple times cover to cover and was impressed with how he went out of his way to be fair and balanced.

Could you PLEASE cite ANY incident where his rendering was slanted ?

I don't know Fudge's heart so I don't know if he was slanted or biased. I think he was trying to show that the UPC has not been, and even is not now, completely agreed when it comes to how a person is justified/saved/born again.

[Encryptus]

I don't know Fudge's heart so I don't know if he was slanted or biased. I think he was trying to show that the UPC has not been, and even is not now, completely agreed when it comes to how a person is justified/saved/born again.

Fudge wrote as a historian, not a theologian. He researched, he documented. And was pretty much as objective as one could be. I find charges that he was "slanted" to be shall we say "interesting." Especially since his detractors are unable to give an example.

Having said that I am sure the book Epley is touting is worth reading. Just troubled by the anti-Fudge backlash from people who have never actually read Christianity without the Cross.

[mizpeh]

Fudge wrote as a historian, not a theologian. He researched, he documented. And was pretty much as objective as one could be. I find charges that he was "slanted" to be shall we say "interesting." Especially since his detractors are unable to give an example.

Having said that I am sure the book Epley is touting is worth reading. Just troubled by the anti-Fudge backlash from people who have never actually read Christianity without the Cross.
I recall Bro Epley writing in a post awhile back that he was reading Christianity without a cross for the second time.

I would say the title of the book is enough proof that the author has a slanted opinion of Oneness Pentecostals.

[Encryptus]

I recall Bro Epley writing in a post awhile back that he was reading Christianity without a cross for the second time.

I would say the title of the book is enough proof that the author has a slanted opinion of Oneness Pentecostals.

Judging a book totally by its cover? From your posts I would not have guessed that of you. I have never seen any evidence of bias in his writing nor evidence of misquotes or misinformation.

[Encryptus]

Also how can you say he was biased against Oneness Pentecostals even if he were "slanted"?

Are you inferring that PCI view is not Oneness?

[mizpeh]

Also how can you say he was biased against Oneness Pentecostals even if he were "slanted"?

Are you inferring that PCI view is not Oneness?

I've never read the book. I'm not inferring anything.

Just saying the title could have been a bit more bland like "The History of Oneness Pentecostalism" and less inflammatory and slanted. Perhaps the author let his feelings be known in choosing a derogatory title.

[Steve Epley]

?????

How strange. Did you actually read Fudge's book??

I have read it a couple times cover to cover and was impressed with how he went out of his way to be fair and balanced.

Could you PLEASE cite ANY incident where his rendering was slanted ?

Did YOU read the book? If so how could you possibly ask this absurd question?
The name of the book itself is "Christianity Without the Cross" which is not only biased but an absolute LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have read the book in it' entirety 3 times and read at it several times. I purchased about 25 of these books and gave them away.

[Encryptus]

I've never read the book. I'm not inferring anything.

Just saying the title could have been a bit more bland like "The History of Oneness Pentecostalism" and less inflammatory and slanted. Perhaps the author let his feelings be known in choosing a derogatory title.

Good another admitted example of judging it without reading it.

[mizpeh]

Good another admitted example of judging it without reading it.I know the title isn't true, nor is it a fair representation of OP beliefs. Who's to say the innards are any different? Or that there isn't some bias that you may have overlooked because you agree with the author's conclusions?

[mizpeh]

Good another admitted example of judging it without reading it.another?

[MrMasterMind]

Did YOU read the book? If so how could you possibly ask this absurd question?
The name of the book itself is "Christianity Without the Cross" which is not only biased but an absolute LIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I have read the book in it' entirety 3 times and read at it several times. I purchased about 25 of these books and gave them away.

Have to join in. It is excellent you actually read it. Glad you are the exception. Now instead of engaging in hyperbole perhaps you would care to give a single example? Fudge did exhaustive research, pointed out the efforts made to keep it balanced. It is an accurate, and so far totally irrefutable historic rendering. Please please pretty please, point out an inaccuracy!

[Steve Epley]

Have to join in. It is excellent you actually read it. Glad you are the exception. Now instead of engaging in hyperbole perhaps you would care to give a single example? Fudge did exhaustive research, pointed out the efforts made to keep it balanced. It is an accurate, and so far totally irrefutable historic rendering. Please please pretty please, point out an inaccuracy!

The LIE is that Pentecost does not preach the cross and the blood. From the time of Haywood until the present sermons-printed material-songs show the opposite. I called the guy and told him just that. I have heard Calvary-the blood-redemption-the cross all my life. It is good historical refernce book concerning the merger and the PCI side of the merger and their beliefs. But to paint Oneness Pentecost as not preaching the cross and the blood is a LIE. And I told Mr. Fudge the same. I think his name fits him he fudges on the truth. It is an agenda driven book. Again I bought about 25 of these books and gave them away. I think it is a necessary history of one element of the Oneness movement that men today need to understand.

[ManOfWord]

Fudge was on target and on point with what he wrote. The title was on target as well. Fudge did not say the blood was not preached by all. He brought out a particular view from particular folks and addressed an issue that needed and still needs to be addressed from time to time. We have addressed it here on this forum as well and when the subject comes up, people storm off and walk away without intelligent dialogue!

Some DO preach Christianity without the cross and some DO put more emphasis on Jesus' name than they do on Jesus' person.

I talked to Fudge as well and was interviewed by him and cited in his book. I have "In Jesus' Name." I just have not waded into it yet. I am anticipating a good read. :D

[Sam]

I highly recommend "In Jesus Name" The History and Beliefs of Oneness Pentecostals by David A. Reed. It is the most comprehensive history I have read about the American Jesus Name movement. The publishers are deo publishing. The biblography is outstanding.

I ordered a copy and got the wrong book.
I've since returned it and re-ordered "In Jesus Name."
I hope I get the right one this time.

Eld. Epley,
I've mentioned before that I consider you a real historian on the Apostolic/Pentecostal movement. I've also stated that I wish you could commit some of your vast knowledge to paper or some media in order to share your knowledge and insight.

[Jermyn Davidson]

I ordered a copy and got the wrong book.
I've since returned it and re-ordered "In Jesus Name."
I hope I get the right one this time.

Eld. Epley,
I've mentioned before that I consider you a real historian on the Apostolic/Pentecostal movement. I've also stated that I wish you could commit some of your vast knowledge to paper or some media in order to share your knowledge and insight.


But if he did so, would his work be scholarly, or a matter-of-fact history document, or a collection of biographies?

Any of which would be interesting to read.


Elder Epley,
If you were to put a book together, what would be your format?

[Steve Epley]

But if he did so, would his work be scholarly, or a matter-of-fact history document, or a collection of biographies?

Any of which would be interesting to read.


Elder Epley,
If you were to put a book together, what would be your format?

I do not believe I am skilled to write a book. I love history about the American Jesus Name movement and read everything I can about it. I have been asked for years to do that but I feel unqualified not in information but in ability. My memory is good and I have come into personal contact with most schisms in the movement so my experience it unique I guess and I would love too but I can't see me doing it. Thanks though.

[Jermyn Davidson]

I do not believe I am skilled to write a book. I love history about the American Jesus Name movement and read everything I can about it. I have been asked for years to do that but I feel unqualified not in information but in ability. My memory is good and I have come into personal contact with most schisms in the movement so my experience it unique I guess and I would love too but I can't see me doing it. Thanks though.

Maybe you should collaborate with someone then.

Maybe even do an oral recording of the history you know.




BTW
You're welcome Sir.

[*AQuietPlace*]

I do not believe I am skilled to write a book. I love history about the American Jesus Name movement and read everything I can about it. I have been asked for years to do that but I feel unqualified not in information but in ability. My memory is good and I have come into personal contact with most schisms in the movement so my experience it unique I guess and I would love too but I can't see me doing it. Thanks though.
Have someone help you!

[Sam]

I do not believe I am skilled to write a book. I love history about the American Jesus Name movement and read everything I can about it. I have been asked for years to do that but I feel unqualified not in information but in ability. My memory is good and I have come into personal contact with most schisms in the movement so my experience it unique I guess and I would love too but I can't see me doing it. Thanks though.

I've suggested that he write more of an informal history, maybe a collection or memories and biographies. I've suggested he write a monthly column in an Apostolic magazine and then those could be collected into what would become a book. We have scholarly books with footnotes like "United We Stand" and "Christianity Without The Cross" and others. Bro. Epley could furnish memories, anecdotes, etc from a long and varied ministry. He has experience with Bro. Jimmy Russell, a real man of God, in western KY. He has experience with the Rambos. He has experience with various doctrines which he has encountered through the years like Branhamism, prosperity gospel, never die, spiritual wife, manifestation of the sons of God, latter rain, and others. He is a man of strong convictions and plain speech, but fellowships (not on his platform or in his church when he pastored) with some who do not agree with him on everything.

[Steve Epley]

I've suggested that he write more of an informal history, maybe a collection or memories and biographies. I've suggested he write a monthly column in an Apostolic magazine and then those could be collected into what would become a book. We have scholarly books with footnotes like "United We Stand" and "Christianity Without The Cross" and others. Bro. Epley could furnish memories, anecdotes, etc from a long and varied ministry. He has experience with Bro. Jimmy Russell, a real man of God, in western KY. He has experience with the Rambos. He has experience with various doctrines which he has encountered through the years like Branhamism, prosperity gospel, never die, spiritual wife, manifestation of the sons of God, latter rain, and others. He is a man of strong convictions and plain speech, but fellowships (not on his platform or in his church when he pastored) with some who do not agree with him on everything.

I have been asked for years to write about the humorous stuff I have witnessed in Pentecost I have volumes of funny stories I witnessed personally. I have thought about doing that one.

[*AQuietPlace*]

I have been asked for years to write about the humorous stuff I have witnessed in Pentecost I have volumes of funny stories I witnessed personally. I have thought about doing that one.
You could just tape it all into a recorder, just talk, and then have someone else put it into book form. Just the audio version would be priceless. :)

[missourimary]

Both the books that Bro Epley mentions writing-one of the history of OP and one of the humourous incidents-would be wonderful to read.

[Steve Epley]

Fudge was on target and on point with what he wrote. The title was on target as well. Fudge did not say the blood was not preached by all. He brought out a particular view from particular folks and addressed an issue that needed and still needs to be addressed from time to time. We have addressed it here on this forum as well and when the subject comes up, people storm off and walk away without intelligent dialogue!

Some DO preach Christianity without the cross and some DO put more emphasis on Jesus' name than they do on Jesus' person.

I talked to Fudge as well and was interviewed by him and cited in his book. I have "In Jesus' Name." I just have not waded into it yet. I am anticipating a good read. :D

I spoke to him too he wasn't very happy.:thumbsup Maybe his crown was too tight. The book contained some very good information I enjoyed it however overall it was a hit piece.

[Hoovie]

Bro Epley, does the Reed book delve into the various soteriology of the Oneness Pentecostals?

[Steve Epley]

Bro Epley, does the Reed book delve into the various soteriology of the Oneness Pentecostals?

Yes very much so and much wider than Fudge honestly I have never saw a book that dealt with as much diversity concerning the Pentecostal movement. Remember he like Fudge is NOT Pentecostal though he has Pentecostal roots yet he is a little kinder to the overall Pentecostal movement and not doing the blame game.

[Disciple4life]

Bump

I just got this book in the mail. I am reading it now. I am trying to get everybody warmed up for when I am done reading it.

Yes there will be much to talk about!!! :blah

[pilgram]

I highly recommend "In Jesus Name" The History and Beliefs of Oneness Pentecostals by David A. Reed. It is the most comprehensive history I have read about the American Jesus Name movement. The publishers are deo publishing. The biblography is outstanding.

Thanks for the tip I'll check it out.

[CC1]

Bump

I just got this book in the mail. I am reading it now. I am trying to get everybody warmed up for when I am done reading it.

Yes there will be much to talk about!!! :blah

Where did you get it from and how much did it cost? I am interested in it but everywhere I have seen it so far it is very expensive.

BTW Congrats on pulling up a five year old thread!

[Disciple4life]

You can call me the bumper!

You know everybody complains when somebody starts a thread before they use the search function.

What do you want?

Tons of threads with the same title or bumped threads? :heeheehee

[Disciple4life]

Pentecostal Publishing House is where I got it. Wow I paid $34.95! What was I thinking!! Plus $5.70 for shipping!!! Your are right this was insane!!!

BUT it really is worth it. This book is 10X better than CWTC by Fudge. Fudge did an excellent job with his book, but I have learned so much from this book and I am only 2/3 the way through it. :happydance

http://pentecostalpublishing.com/product/jesus-name

[CC1]

I was hoping there might be an inexpensive Kindle ebook version of it but no luck.

[Disciple4life]

So I finished the book last night. WOW WOW WOW!!!

One thing that stuck out was that GT Haywood and AD Urshan were the most visible members that popularized the teaching of Acts 2:38 being the "New Birth". These two men also believed and publicly taught the 'Light Doctrine'. They were not preaching Holy Ghost or Hell.
So if you believe the New Birth teaching shouldn't you also believe the Light Doctrine?

Howard Durham had a far greater impact on the Pentecostal Faith than we are led to believe. He believed in the Finished Work of Calvary but preached Acts 2:38. He never came into the truth of Jesus Name baptism but one of his students did (Frank Ewart) and he was pivotal in starting Oneness Pentecostalism. The parts were they talk about Durham just sound like a PCI preacher is preaching his heart out.

Ewart and Parham might have been Universalist. You never hear Pentecostals talk about that.

Well that is all I can remember off the top of my head. Anyone want to discuss??? :bigweightlift:

[Sabby]

I'd be interested in it.
Bro Epley, we have disagreed in the past, but I appreciate your convictions. I know many more United Pentecostal preachers that preach a verse (indicated by the title of Fudge's book) instead of the cross. Those same preachers practically ignored the 4 gospels while exclusively preaching from the book of Acts, using the the epistles only as support texts.
Brother Epley, I believe you. I believe it was as you said where you lived and ministered.
It was really not that way out west. California exported some radicals into Oregon (by radicals I mean those that preach a'la CWTC-a verse versus the person) and Washington. It was the radicalization of the organization that prompted many UPCers in Idaho - Wayne Nigh, Walter Nigh, Bro Bishop, Norman Rutzen (Idaho DS for years) and Steve Yadon (Loren's brother and later DS) to drop their credentials. Fudge may have had an axe to grind, but his research proved his point. The UPC went radical in the late 70s, at least in the NW. I know probably dozens of preachers that walked away from the ministry over the dogmatism. They believed and preached the verse in in the shadow of the cross but these same preachers were considered "weak" on the "message". It's history. It happened.
Did Fudge have a thesis? I think most books are written with one in mind. Did he misquote anyone?
Years ago I read a book written by Dr Francis Shaeffer's son, Franky. It was called "A time for Anger" (The myth of neutrality in the media). He intentionally had what some might consider a controversial book cover. The cover alone piqued my interest to read. Without impugning his motives, this could be Fudge's reasoning for a book cover as controversial as CWTC.

I'm also a Jesus' name history buff and welcome this read.

What if PPH sells this book and CWTC as a package deal? Could it happen? LOL

[Disciple4life]

I said this in another thread but thought I thought I should repost it in this one!

I just read David Reed's book "In Jesus Name". In his book he kind of said something like this.

Oneness Pentecostals were thrown out of Christianity because of our views on the Trinity and Salvation. I don't remember the word he used Cult Heresy or what.
But as time goes by and we explain our believes in a more theological manner and people get to know us, we will be eventually accepted into mainstream. David Reed is much more eloquent in explaining this but you get the point.

Something else that he mentioned is that Pentecostal Assemblies of the World are a little more accepted than the UPCI. He attributes this to the PAW holding on to GT Haywood's teaching of the light doctrine. This explains that the PAW accepts other Christians and that God has a place for them even if they have not come into the full truth of salvation.

It seems David Reed has a lot of opinions for an Ex-Oneness Pentecostal! :foottap