Apostolic History Resource.

[Scott Hutchinson]

This is a resource on Apostolic History online by The Late Elder Marvin Arnold.
http://www.daystart.org/apostolichistory.pdf

[Sister Alvear]

thanks...

[Aquila]

This outline is something that almost shattered my faith when I was younger. Anyone who digs deeply and tries to verify this outline will find it FILLED with calculated distortions. For example he writes,

CATHARI: Catharer, or Cathari, meant pure. This was a general term. Most were Apostolics in many different organizations. Rome's religious institution slandered Donatists as Cathari.

We have documentation on what the Cathari's believed. They were dualists, steeped in occult mysticism, and held elaborate rituals much like the Catholic church complete with their own liturgies. The Cathari aren't Apostolic and never were.

AD 419-501, Toulouse was a GOTHIC state. It was protected as an Apostolic stronghold. SEVEN CHURCHES OF ASIA yet ALIVE! (Rev. 1:11) JESUS said, "The gates of hell shall not prevail..."ONE MAN TOLD ANOTHER" about Acts 2:38. AD 431, NESTORIANISM, an Apostolic variant swept from Petra to China. Until ca. 1700 most Nestorians were monotheists and used Acts 2:38 tenets. Most then knew Spirit glossolalia. Nestorius refused to call Mary, The Mother of God.

Nestorians did deny the traditional doctrine of the Trinity and saw Christ similarly in some respects as we do, but they don't believe like us nor did they ever have the Holy Ghost. Look them up, their churches exist today in Syria, Iraq, Iran, and India.

Problems like this are found throughout the outline. Go to a Library and VERIFY his conclusions... you'll be amazed at the outright distortions here. My old Pastor believed this outline and even preached using it on a couple occasions. When I began to look into it I was ready to leave church because no Holy Ghost led person could believe in lies like this. But I had a wise elder teach me a few things about God and salvation through the ages and he helped me get past this sort of thing.

I find it amazing that so many "conservative" scholars want to connect us to obscure groups that practiced the occult, believed in immorality, and were just as liturgical as the Catholic church... but decry any spiritual shared heritage with men of such caliber as William Tyndale, Martin Luther, and John Wesley.

Here is the truth. Like Israel of old the Church has faced apostasy and "traditionalization". Yet as God's Word declares... the gates of Hell shall not prevail against the church. God sent a series of Reformers and revivals that has shaped the church and moved her closer to being back to her Apostolic glory, often one doctrine at a time. Here are just a few examples:

Lutheran Church - AD 1517: Saw - Justification by faith...

Presbyterian Church - Ad 1536: Saw - Communion as a Memorial...

Congregational Church - AD 1580: Saw - Separation of Church and State...

Baptist Church - AD 1609: Saw - Water Baptism for believers only...

Methodist Church - AD 1739: Saw - Personal Holiness...

Christian Church - AD 1820: Saw - Baptism for Remission of Sins...

Trinitarian Pentecostalism - AD 1900: Saw - Baptism of the Holy Ghost with speaking in tongues.

Apostolic Church - AD 1914: Saw the revelation of God in Christ (ONENESS), and the truth of baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ.

This is a history of revival and restoration... we don't need to try to find our history in the likes of the Cathari and other occult groups.

[Hoovie]

Yes indeed I agree Aquila. A vague reference is made to tongues or Christ's deity then Arnold (and a few others too) say it clearly shows the "Acts 2:38" was "widely accepted" or "Almost Universal" or "became the widely accepted practice". They said the same thing about the Anabaptists.

Marvin Hicks once said, (paraphrase as I remember it) You read the Foxes book of Martyrs - and when you do, know that every one of those dear people who gave their lives were baptized in Jesus name and spoke in tongues just like you!

Man that really excited me when I first got in church...

Problem is, it's simply not true!

[Aquila]

It's like politics.... people lie and think it's okay because it supports "the cause". That's why I gave up on so much of Apostolic teaching. When they don't even have the intellectual integrity to tell the truth about verifiable history... the corruption runs deep.

[Sam]

Yes indeed I agree Aquila. A vague reference is made to tongues or Christ's deity then Arnold (and a few others too) say it clearly shows the "Acts 2:38" was "widely accepted" or "Almost Universal" or "became the widely accepted practice". They said the same thing about the Anabaptists.

Marvin Hicks once said, (paraphrase as I remember it) You read the Foxes book of Martyrs - and when you do, know that every one of those dear people who gave their lives were baptized in Jesus name and spoke in tongues just like you!

Man that really excited me when I first got in church...

Problem is, it's simply not true!

That's probably just wishful thinking.
It's hard for some people to accept the fact that God is real in the lives of many people who do not believe in
1. "oneness" as taught in its various forms among us;
2 water baptism verbally invoking the name Jesus and maybe one or both of the titles "Lord" and/or "Christ";
3. and the idea that speaking with tongues is the birth of the Spirit.

Throughout church history there have been folks who disagreed with the doctrine of the trinity as it was taught at that time. There have been people who rejected the Church/State baptism and registration of their children. There have been manifestations of various gifts of the Holy Spirit throughout the history of the church. But to grab at historical references of those things and claim that those people were doctrinally in line with the UPC of the late 1900's is either naive or dishonest.

[Sam]

When I was a baby Christian I joined the local Baptist Church in our town. Someone (I don't remember if it was the pastor or not) gave me a small booklet called "The Trail of Blood. You can find the text of that booklet at
http://www.biblepreaching.com/trailofblood.html
The author "proves" in that booklet that the Baptist church has always existed throughout church history.

Writers for the Roman Catholic Church can give you a list of all the popes from the Apostle Peter to the present one and "prove" it from history. They can also give you a list of the church councils and the creeds through church history from the New Testament until the present in 2009. This way they can "prove" that the Roman Catholic Church of today is the same church that Jesus mentioned in Matthew chapter 16.

Bro. Arnold's book does basically the same thing and is about as believable as those others.

There was a post here or on one of the earlier forums by someone who helped Bro. Arnold assemble his information for that book. The poster admitted that Bro. Arnold was not always truthful with the way he handled the "facts."

[Praxeas]

BTW, this book was never published by the UPCI

[John Atkinson]

I have read most of Bro Arnold's works and find them to be very revsionist, which is kind of a bummer since so many folks swear by them. I don't believe Bro Arnold was a real "historian" just a guy with a project.

[Justin]

BTW, this book was never published by the UPCI

I wonder why that is...?

You think that if this was "proof we've existed since the upper room", they'd be all over it.

[Justin]

I wonder why that is...?

You think that if this was "proof we've existed since the upper room", they'd be all over it.

bump