Keeping the Standards

[Steve Epley]

Just thought there were so many threads praising and rejoicing in having NO standards. I just thought I would start one saying I am very happy living by the Biblical standards preached by the Apostolic church all these years. NOT IN BONDAGE don't feel sorry for me.

[n david]

Just thought there were so many threads praising and rejoicing in having NO standards. I just thought I would start one saying I am very happy living by the Biblical standards preached by the Apostolic church all these years. NOT IN BONDAGE don't feel sorry for me.

:thumbsup

Glad you continue to post here with us, even though we probably don't agree on dress standards.

[GraceAmazing]

I once heard an old black preacher preach regarding the standards...His statement went something like this...

"If I'm in bondage...then I LOVE my chains"!

Can't you just hear him sing/preach that one!

[*AQuietPlace*]

Just thought there were so many threads praising and rejoicing in having NO standards. I just thought I would start one saying I am very happy living by the Biblical standards preached by the Apostolic church all these years. NOT IN BONDAGE don't feel sorry for me.
And there are still many like you around the country. :)

Most of them just don't post on forums.

[Steve Epley]

And there are still many like you around the country. :)

Most of them just don't post on forums.

Yes and some do but on conservative forums.:thumbsup

[Baron1710]

And there are still many like you around the country. :)

Most of them just don't post on forums.

Because their standards are too high to hang out with me.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Yes and some do but on conservative forums.:thumbsup

True.

Because their standards are too high to hang out with me.

And true. ;)

[Timmy]

Just thought there were so many threads praising and rejoicing in having NO standards. I just thought I would start one saying I am very happy living by the Biblical standards preached by the Apostolic church all these years. NOT IN BONDAGE don't feel sorry for me.

Can't recall anyone, not even me, saying they have NO standards.

[Timmy]

Can't recall anyone, not even me, saying they have NO standards.

Ah. Outward standards. I stand (sorta) corrected, as there were some that voted that they have dropped them.

[rgcraig]

Can't recall anyone, not even me, saying they have NO standards.

We all know what he means - -

[Ron]

I once heard an old black preacher preach regarding the standards...His statement went something like this...

"If I'm in bondage...then I LOVE my chains"!

Can't you just hear him sing/preach that one!

The Apostle Paul said that he was a "Bond Servant" of Jesus Christ!:thumbsup

[LUKE2447]

The Apostle Paul said that he was a "Bond Servant" of Jesus Christ!:thumbsup

many people forget that and usually add a little humanism into the judgments of God.

[Scott Hutchinson]

If one desires to please God,discipleship calls for personal holiness so if one walks in holiness they will have standards of conduct,while there can be differences of convictions on some issues,all sincere believers will desire to walk in a lifestyle that glorifies The Lord.

[HopePreacher]

I think we all know what he means, but does he mean what we think he means?

I'masking Brother Eply... no, I'll reply to his post and ask him.

[HopePreacher]

Just thought there were so many threads praising and rejoicing in having NO standards. I just thought I would start one saying I am very happy living by the Biblical standards preached by the Apostolic church all these years. NOT IN BONDAGE don't feel sorry for me.

First let me say that I am blessed to know that you live the standard you do out of conviction because when you do that you are not under bondage you freed by the grace of God to live out your conviction.

In response to the "No Standards" statement: I don't think I've read one post that indicated there we should not have standards, but outside of what the scripture actually says, we should not expect others to live by our convictions.

Here are some examples of my standards:
- I'm sitting here writing with a pair of modest shorts on. The same shorts I had on a couple of hours ago in our church staff meeting. - In your mind does that mean I don't have any dress standards?
-I have a TV, cable and a DVD player - does that mean I don't have a standard?
-My wife wears pants, make-up and jewelry, yet she is adorned with a meek and humble spirit - does that mean she doesn't have standards?

Do you see my point? I do have standards, and I believe we all do, but my question is do you view me as having "No Standards" because mine are different than yours?

[LUKE2447]

First let me say that I am blessed to know that you live the standard you do out of conviction because when you do that you are not under bondage you freed by the grace of God to live out your conviction.

In response to the "No Standards" statement: I don't think I've read one post that indicated there we should not have standards, but outside of what the scripture actually says, we should not expect others to live by our convictions.

Here are some examples of my standards:
- I'm sitting here writing with a pair of modest shorts on. The same shorts I had on a couple of hours ago in our church staff meeting. - In your mind does that mean I don't have any dress standards?
-I have a TV, cable and a DVD player - does that mean I don't have a standard?
-My wife wears pants, make-up and jewelry, yet she is adorned with a meek and humble spirit - does that mean she doesn't have standards?

Do you see my point? I do have standards, and I believe we all do, but my question is do you view me as having "No Standards" because mine are different than yours?

Is being sold out 80%? It's not whether you gave up things it's whether you give up all. Not talking about you personally but the flow of your point.

[Sept5SavedTeen]

What I love to hear most, is preaching about going on to perfection. I wonder if it might not be best for all of us to figure out, and be fully persuaded in our minds about our outward dress standards, and then for our discussions between us on AFF, we spend our time exhorting one another to perfection. After all, none of us can really see what each other is wearing on AFF, unless you live near some of these people... and dress standards, besides basic principles of modesty vary so greatly over culture and time... what we contend for today, might be "normal" tommorrow, as I'm sure what yesteryear preached against as "immodest" is perfectly fine today.

-Bro. Alex

[OnTheFritz]

Is being sold out 80%? It's not whether you gave up things it's whether you give up all. Not talking about you personally but the flow of your point.

Ahh. more abstract truisms. Can you apply some practical application to your "give up all" mantra and please translate into a concrete response ;)

[HopePreacher]

Is being sold out 80%? It's not whether you gave up things it's whether you give up all. Not talking about you personally but the flow of your point.

I hear what you are saying about the 80% thing - that's where I was when I was compromising my convictions by trying to enforce what rules and standards that others were trying to impose. When I finally became willing to pay the price I had to separate from those who saw devils under every bush and had impure thoughts about a myriad of innocent behaviors.

It cost me greatly, but now I live by my understanding of the scripture regarding holiness and consecration. It is difficult because now I don't have someone else dictating the rules. I lost the approval of the brethren I loved because they did not understand the position I took.

I suppose that is what you meant.

[Jermyn Davidson]

What I love to hear most, is preaching about going on to perfection. I wonder if it might not be best for all of us to figure out, and be fully persuaded in our minds about our outward dress standards, and then for our discussions between us on AFF, we spend our time exhorting one another to perfection. After all, none of us can really see what each other is wearing on AFF, unless you live near some of these people... and dress standards, besides basic principles of modesty vary so greatly over culture and time... what we contend for today, might be "normal" tommorrow, as I'm sure what yesteryear preached against as "immodest" is perfectly fine today.

-Bro. Alex



I've heard a preacher on more than one occasion talk about how that what some Christians deem acceptable today would never have been acceptable by the world, 50 years ago.

[*AQuietPlace*]

I've heard a preacher on more than one occasion talk about how that what some Christians deem acceptable today would never have been acceptable by the world, 50 years ago.
That is true, but it doesn't mean that things that are acceptable now are necessarily wrong. Whether people want to admit it or not, most of our standards are based on culture. As has been mentioned over and over, 200 years ago mid-calf length skirts were waaaaay taboo.

That's why God gave us some principles that will work in every culture, every time period.

[SOUNWORTHY]

Yes and some do but on conservative forums.:thumbsup

Steve, where are some of those conservative forums? Maybe that's where I belong.

[missourimary]

I was wondering what the conservative forums were too... one is Good News Cafe probably, but I don't know of any others that might be.

I can't be deemed conservative in some circles because I believe what we do or don't do should be based on what is plainly stated in the bible and on our personal convictions, not on peer pressure. But if any of you met me, you would almost invariably label me as UC because of my dress and where I go to church. And I am happy with my lifestyle. If I weren't, I wouldn't. :)

[ILG]

"We are all just prisoners here...of our own device" Hotel California by the Eagles

[Glenda B]

Just thought there were so many threads praising and rejoicing in having NO standards. I just thought I would start one saying I am very happy living by the Biblical standards preached by the Apostolic church all these years. NOT IN BONDAGE don't feel sorry for me.

Amen. Those in bondage are the ones who can't go outside the house without makeup or their cigarette's and lighter.

[ILG]

Amen. Those in bondage are the ones who can't go outside the house without makeup or their cigarette's and lighter.

It is true that those who CAN'T go out of their house without those things are in bondage. But make-up can be used or not depending on whatever. Cigarettes, now there is an addiction.

[*AQuietPlace*]

Amen. Those in bondage are the ones who can't go outside the house without makeup or their cigarette's and lighter.
I can't go out of the house without my hair curled and fixed. NOT happening, unless it's an emergency.

I guess that's why some preachers preach against curlers. ;)

[GrowingPains]

Ah. Outward standards. I stand (sorta) corrected, as there were some that voted that they have dropped them.

You don't have outward standards of your own? Sheesh... I'd never walk out of the house with my shirt off and in my comic strip pajamas :blush

Seriously though, hopefully you have some standards of your own concerning your appearance.

[OnTheFritz]

Amen. Those in bondage are the ones who can't go outside the house without makeup or their cigarette's and lighter.

Or those who can't go outside without their earrings, long sleeve shirts, heroin and hypodermic needles.

Or possibly some other random combination of unrelated things. :lol

[RandyWayne]

I can't go out of the house without my hair curled and fixed. NOT happening, unless it's an emergency.

I guess that's why some preachers preach against curlers. ;)

I walk to our mailbox wearing sweats or my Green Bay Packers boxers and either a T-shirt or no shirt, all the time.

[*AQuietPlace*]

I walk to our mailbox wearing sweats or my Green Bay Packers boxers and either a T-shirt or no shirt, all the time.
I don't even walk to the mailbox without my hair curled. I have my standards! :)

[ILG]

I walk to our mailbox wearing sweats or my Green Bay Packers boxers and either a T-shirt or no shirt, all the time.

I never walk to the mailbox with no shirt. No sirree!!!! :ursofunny

[Baron1710]

I never walk to the mailbox with no shirt. No sirree!!!! :ursofunny

I never walk to the mailbox...I stop the car and tell one of the kids jump out and get the mail. That's my standard.

[Timmy]

You don't have outward standards of your own? Sheesh... I'd never walk out of the house with my shirt off and in my comic strip pajamas :blush

Seriously though, hopefully you have some standards of your own concerning your appearance.

See the little guy running back and forth, in my sig line? What's he wearing? :toofunny

[*AQuietPlace*]

See the little guy running back and forth, in my sig line? What's he wearing? :toofunny
A yellow bodysuit.

[Timmy]

A yellow bodysuit.

:heeheehee

[LUKE2447]

Ahh. more abstract truisms. Can you apply some practical application to your "give up all" mantra and please translate into a concrete response ;)

see, the problem is, that's God's job. :thumbsup Read his Word and pray about it. We are only his friends if we do what he commands!

[Timmy]

see, the problem is, that's God's job. :thumbsup Read his Word and pray about it. We are only his friends if we do what he commands!

It's God's job to decide what it means to "give up all"?

[LUKE2447]

It's God's job to decide what it means to "give up all"?

Yes! read his point! He wanted definition and application... Yes it is his JOB to lead us. How can I say how for you to give up all! I don't know you and even if I did it's not my job. Giving up all is a clear definition to me. ALL is ALL. He wanted more. How to go about that is to be led by the Spirit and study his Word. Being led by the Spirit is the application IMO! No hindrance to the Spirit is ALL!

[Timmy]

No! read his point! He wanted definition and application... How can I say how for you to give up all! I don't know you and even if I did it's not my job. Giving up all is a clear definition to me. ALL is ALL. He wanted more. How to go about that is to be led by the Spirit and study his Word. Being led by the Spirit is the application IMO! No hinderance to the Spirit is ALL!

I see. (I think. ;))

[Timmy]

I see. (I think. ;))

Hey, you were right! I read this in the Bible, and now I know what I have to do!

Luke 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Thanks, Luke!

[Timmy]

Yes! read his point! He wanted definition and application... Yes it is his JOB to lead us. How can I say how for you to give up all! I don't know you and even if I did it's not my job. Giving up all is a clear definition to me. ALL is ALL. He wanted more. How to go about that is to be led by the Spirit and study his Word. Being led by the Spirit is the application IMO! No hindrance to the Spirit is ALL!

Ah, an edit! OK, a Yes does make more sense than a No. (I think ;))

[LUKE2447]

Ah, an edit! OK, a Yes does make more sense than a No. (I think ;))

Well, I was answering it another way I thought you meant and realized it was not what you meant! Kinda of busy and did a incorrect glance and you of course deserve a correct answer! Thanks! :thumbsup

[Timmy]

Well, I was answering it another way I thought you meant and realized it was not what you meant! Kinda of busy and did a incorrect glance and you of course deserve a correct answer! Thanks! :thumbsup

I see, thanks!

[freeatlast]

Keeping the standards. I like the the thread title.

I keep standards, yes I do.

What most people mean by I keep standards, is I keep the ones that I agree with and expect you to do the same.

The use of internet is forbidden by some, participating in Forums is preached against by others, therefore Elder Epley, you also do not keep standards.

Personally forbidding use of the internet makes much more sence to me than forbidding a man from having any facial hair.

There is only one thing certain about "standards"...they are NO standard.

That our standards have become a test of fellowship or test of salvation is a stench in the nostrils of a holy and rightoues God.

[Cindy]

Jesus should be our only standard.
And being mouthy on an internet forum does not make you right or wrong. It only proves that you can type.

[LUKE2447]

Jesus should be our only standard.
And being mouthy on an internet forum does not make you right or wrong. It only proves that you can type.

Totaly agree as he is the Word revealed perfectly upon the heart. Yet most in today's Christianity deny his Words for convoluted misused and understood teachings of Paul.

[missourimary]

Keeping the standards. I like the the thread title.

I keep standards, yes I do.

What most people mean by I keep standards, is I keep the ones that I agree with and expect you to do the same.

...

Personally forbidding use of the internet makes much more sence to me than forbidding a man from having any facial hair.

...

That our standards have become a test of fellowship or test of salvation is a stench in the nostrils of a holy and rightoues God.

If keeping the standards is simply that we keep those we agree with and expect others to do the same then ALL of us are keeping standards, even Timmy. Ah, Timmy, you do wear more than the little guy running back and forth at the bottom of your sig line outside your house, right? Ok, as long as he does, then this holds true.

Forbidding internet makes more sense to me than forbidding facial hair too, but don't tell my pastor that. Except by forbidding internet we would have to decide whether we'd forbid all internet (limiting jobs) or forbid internet outside of work or only at home (making somewhat a double standard).

That standards have become a test of fellowship is not a new thing amongst some. There is a concern that if someone with a higher standard preached at their church fellowships someone with a lower standard, they will "devolve" to that standard themselves, or at least the next generation will.

[Timmy]

If keeping the standards is simply that we keep those we agree with

Yes


and expect others to do the same

No. Not everyone (con or lib) expects others to keep the same standards as they do themselves.

then ALL of us are keeping standards, even Timmy. Ah, Timmy, you do wear more than the little guy running back and forth at the bottom of your sig line outside your house, right?

Yes. But again, I don't expect everyone to keep my standards. Some are higher, some are lower. Hooray for variety!

Ok, as long as he does, then this holds true.

So, if even Timmy has standards, then everyone does! :lol


Forbidding internet makes more sense to me than forbidding facial hair too, but don't tell my pastor that. Except by forbidding internet we would have to decide whether we'd forbid all internet (limiting jobs) or forbid internet outside of work or only at home (making somewhat a double standard).

That standards have become a test of fellowship is not a new thing amongst some. There is a concern that if someone with a higher standard preached at their church fellowships someone with a lower standard, they will "devolve" to that standard themselves, or at least the next generation will.

"Forbidding" is the key word. As far as "outward standards" go, it's kind of a foreign concept to most outside of OP ranks. (I said most, and yes I do understand that some non-OP churches do this kind of thing, too.) If I were to walk up to my pastor and say "Is it OK if I wear shorts to church?", I guarantee he'd give me a real funny look. He neither allows nor forbids anything like that. (OK, if a nudist walked in, he might have to do some forbidding! :lol)

[*AQuietPlace*]

Most pastors who are 'against the internet' allow its use 'at work', or at the library, just not in the home.

Which says, to me, that they don't trust their church to have enough of God in their hearts to do right.

I've had the internet for 15 years, in my home, and NOT ONCE in 15 years have I used the internet to sin. Why? Because I desire to please God.

[Justin]

Most pastors who are 'against the internet' allow its use 'at work', or at the library, just not in the home.

Which says, to me, they don't trust their church to have enough of God in their hearts to do right.

I've had the internet for 15 years, in my home, and NOT ONCE in 15 years have I used the internet to sin. Why? Because I desire to please God.

Amen!

[Sister Alvear]

If someone has to be monitored every step then they are probably not a Christian to start with...

[missourimary]

Amen, amen, amen, AQP, Justin, and Sis Alvear!!

Timmy, I was being light hearted. I knew you would enjoy the jest. You have a very good sense of humor, and I enjoy your posts.
I didn't mean everyone has standards if you do, and I forgot the part about expecting others to keep them was in the OP. I don't expect everyone to hold the same standards either-I respect others' stances on these issues, or try to. But then again, when I walk outside I do expect others to be dressed-and have done a double take with some in and out of church who are dressed extremely differently than what I am used to, because I'm not used to it.

[HopePreacher]

Most pastors who are 'against the internet' allow its use 'at work', or at the library, just not in the home.

Which says, to me, that they don't trust their church to have enough of God in their hearts to do right.

I've had the internet for 15 years, in my home, and NOT ONCE in 15 years have I used the internet to sin. Why? Because I desire to please God.

Quiet Place you hit the nail on the head; pastors don't trust their church...
And I feel that the reason they don't trust their church is because they don't trust the Holy Spirit working in their church to give them the character to live right when no one is watching.

It boils down to a trust issue. If I don't trust you to do what is right on your own then I am going to set down the rules for you to follow. That won't make you right but it will show all my friends that I have my saints under control.

[RandyWayne]

Most pastors who are 'against the internet' allow its use 'at work', or at the library, just not in the home.

Which says, to me, that they don't trust their church to have enough of God in their hearts to do right.

I've had the internet for 15 years, in my home, and NOT ONCE in 15 years have I used the internet to sin. Why? Because I desire to please God.

Not once?

Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[Carpenter]

Thank you Brother Epley for this thread.

I haven't read all the pages, but I find it so discouraging when our Christian walk is defined by the term "standards".

I think the distinction needs to made clear that folks who do not believe that following what a few fellas have determined what is "holy unto the Lord" equates to having NO standards.

This is the problem, if I open my arms as wide as I can and stand as tall as I can stand, then the box built around me is 6'2" x 6'2". The Apostolic dress code is telling me I have identity, I can work out my own salvation, and He that the son has set free is free indeed...ONLY that all this must occurr within the box. Be all you can be, but stay in the box because we cannot trust you outside of it, no matter how much we preach, how many revivals, crusades, rallys, special services, evangelists, healing and holy ghost seminars, camp meetings, men's retreats, ladies retreats, youth camps, ministers meetings, becauses of the timeses, times of refreshingeses, general conferences, youth congresses...have I left anything out?

I am just tired of the Apostolic institution being worshiped more than the Lord Jesus...very tired in fact.

[*AQuietPlace*]

I am just tired of the Apostolic institution being worshiped more than the Lord Jesus...very tired in fact.

Amen.

[ChTatum]

"We are all just prisoners here...of our own device" Hotel California by the Eagles

"and in the master's chambers, they gather for the feast, they stab it with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the beast"


really dark song.

[ILG]

"and in the master's chambers, they gather for the feast, they stab it with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the beast"


really dark song.

Yep.

[Timmy]

"and in the master's chambers, they gather for the feast, they stab it with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the beast"


really dark song.

Yep.

Hmm. Maybe I shouldn't have sung it to the kids for their bedtime song.

:toofunny

[RandyWayne]

"and in the master's chambers, they gather for the feast, they stab it with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the beast"


really dark song.

I keep waiting for the movie based on the song to come out!

It took take any number of different routes:

Action. Jason Stathum plays a motorist who's car breaks down and he ends up trapped in the Hotel California.
The movie does just well enough that he also returns for Hotel California 2 and 3.

Mystery/Thriller. Liam Neeson plays a motorist who's car breaks down and he ends up trapped in the Hotel California.
While the movie is generally panned Liam is credited with bringing human drama and life to the role.

Comedy. Eddy Murphy plays a motorist who's car breaks down and ne ends up trapped in the Hotel California.
It subsequently wins the "Raspberry of the Year" award at the Oscars.

[Sinatra]

I keep waiting for the movie based on the song to come out!

It took take any number of different routes:

Action. Jason Stathum plays a motorist who's car breaks down and he ends up trapped in the Hotel California.
The movie does just well enough that he also returns for Hotel California 2 and 3.

Mystery/Thriller. Liam Neeson plays a motorist who's car breaks down and he ends up trapped in the Hotel California.
While the movie is generally panned Liam is credited with bringing human drama and life to the role.

Comedy. Eddy Murphy plays a motorist who's car breaks down and ne ends up trapped in the Hotel California.
It subsequently wins the "Raspberry of the Year" award at the Oscars.


:killinme:killinme:killinme

[*AQuietPlace*]

Well, now the song is stuck in my head, and I only know one line of the chorus. :lol

[Jermyn Davidson]

"and in the master's chambers, they gather for the feast, they stab it with their steely knives, but they just can't kill the beast"


really dark song.


A few of my friends and I did an amateur recording of that song during my Jr yr of HS.

I've never considered the song, "dark". "Deep" but not "dark".


Some songs can have different meanings for different people, depending on the situation in which they hear it and even sing it.



For ex., some folks have told me Lynyrd Skynyrd's music had racist overtones, but I can tolerate the LS music I have heard.