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Paul Harvey
06-23-2009, 11:51 AM
Brethren:

As you, of course, know ministers, every two years, must affirm 2 of 23 Articles of Faith. Among them is the Fundamental Doctrine which includes a unity clause that reads:

We shall endeavor to keep the unity of the Spirit until we all come into the unity of the faith, at the same time admonishing all brethren that they shall not contend for their different views to the disunity of the body.”

With this context, and based on the recent reports by a sub-committee appointed by General Superintendent Haney called the Committee of Inquiry on the Emerging Church in which various dangers and recommendations were made by sitting members of the General Board and published by a General Board Member certain pertinent questions have arisen:

1. If ,the Committee has identified some of these items as dangers and linked them with fellow ministers in the fellowship, such as:

a. There does not appear to be much of distinction between those who sit in the pew and those who stand on the platform.

b. Pastors often depart from traditional “church dress” to a casual look of open collar, un-tucked shirt, sport coat and jeans.

c. Pastors prefer sitting in a chair or behind a table. Generally there is no physical pulpit visible.

d. Emerging Church leaders typically believe full salvation occurs at repentance. Those who fully embrace Emerging Church philosophy would readily agree that although the Blood is applied at repentance, water and spirit baptism are good and could and should be experienced if the individual is open and receptive.

While recommending that the Articles of Faith be taught and understood now, not only ministers but their churches too -

Where do the the Articles of Faith speak against these dangers?
If they do not, when will the Articles of Faith address things such as church layout, "authoritative" dress code for platform ministry, and the when and how of the New Birth?

Some of these items seem to fall under the personal interpretations that General Superintendent Nathaniel Urshan said would not be challenged or imposed upon after the institution of the Affirmation Statement.

The resolution does not give any added powers to officials. If a minister believes our message, all he must do is sign the annual statement. If he does, no official can take any action against him, except under the provisions of our Constitution and Judicial Procedure that already exist. There is no provision for contesting a sign statement.

The resolution does not allow officials to impose private interpretations of holiness standards. The only person who interprets the statement is the minister himself. If he honestly embraces the principles described in the two sections of the Articles of Faith, then he can and should sign the statement. No one can challenge his signature on the basis of personal interpretations and applications.

Some people have argued that the resolution will impose controversial views on subjects such as long sleeves, wedding rings, hair arrangement, church softball games, facial hair, skating rings, and so on. Neither the resolution nor the statement, nor the Articles of Faith mention these subjects. The Articles of Faith mention matters such as immodest dress, worldly sports, and unwholesome music, but the specific definition and application of these principles have always been left to the individual pastor and saint. Moreover, the methods by which a pastor seeks to convert and disciple people who attend his church is in his discretion. Nothing in the resolution changes these prerogatives.

However, the same committee has recommended that "District boards may wish to directly address individual pastors who are adrift to carefully reconsider their position."

It may be construed by some in the fellowship that these conclusions are very much contending for one's "different views to the disunity of the body", therefore, a careful and prayerful re-examination of these views and suggested actions may be in order.

God Bless and Good Day.

Scott Hutchinson
06-23-2009, 11:58 AM
So what happens to preachers who get caught doing the things on the list,what correction will they face ? A firing squad perhaps ?

Scott Hutchinson
06-23-2009, 11:59 AM
What suggested actions will be in order for those in violation ?

Cindy
06-23-2009, 12:41 PM
Who is this letter from and why is it being posted here? Are the General Board of the UPCI registered at AFF?

n david
06-23-2009, 12:46 PM
Who is this letter from and why is it being posted here? Are the General Board of the UPCI registered at AFF?
I could be wrong, but I believe this to be a letter from "Paul Harvey" to the UPCI Gen Board.

Cindy
06-23-2009, 12:51 PM
I could be wrong, but I believe this to be a letter from "Paul Harvey" to the UPCI Gen Board.

Wow, I didn't know Paul Harvey was Pentecostal.

Ron
06-23-2009, 12:54 PM
Who is this letter from and why is it being posted here? Are the General Board of the UPCI registered at AFF?

Wow, I didn't know Paul Harvey was Pentecostal.

You are very astute Cindy!:thumbsup

Timmy
06-23-2009, 01:03 PM
Wow, I didn't know Paul Harvey was Pentecostal.

...and still alive!

Kay B
06-23-2009, 01:05 PM
Wow, I didn't know Paul Harvey was Pentecostal.

Plus a letter from the grave even. jk

( No disrespect meant to the late Paul Harvey)

Cindy
06-23-2009, 01:07 PM
...and still alive!

Yeah, that's what had me wondering who was posting in his name.

Cindy
06-23-2009, 01:08 PM
Plus a letter from the grave even. jk

( No disrespect meant to the late Paul Harvey)

I know, right. I guess we will never know: The Rest of the Story.:D

MawMaw
06-23-2009, 01:16 PM
Yeah, that's what had me wondering who was posting in his name.


Isn't that all illegal and stuff? :foottap

Cindy
06-23-2009, 01:19 PM
Isn't that all illegal and stuff? :foottap

I am sure there is more than one Paul Harvey, and maybe the person that posted this has that name.

Timmy
06-23-2009, 01:20 PM
Isn't that all illegal and stuff? :foottap

Ask "Charlie Brown". :lol

HopePreacher
06-23-2009, 01:20 PM
If someone has something to say to the general board of any organization this not the platform to do it from. I've had enough arrows shot at me vicariously through channels that were not legitimate for protest that I am a bit sensitive to this kind of veiled attack.

MawMaw
06-23-2009, 01:44 PM
I am sure there is more than one Paul Harvey, and maybe the person that posted this has that name.

yeah, true

Ask "Charlie Brown". :lol

uh............but, he's a clown!

hehe

jaxfam6
06-23-2009, 06:52 PM
a. There does not appear to be much of distinction between those who sit in the pew and those who stand on the platform.
I would think that you would not want a distinction. Do you want those in leadership to stick out like a sore thumb or something?


b. Pastors often depart from traditional “church dress” to a casual look of open collar, un-tucked shirt, sport coat and jeans.
Why would this be a problem? Is there really a dress code for the type of clothes a minister should wear when he gets up to preach or teach? AND does anyone really care?

c. Pastors prefer sitting in a chair or behind a table. Generally there is no physical pulpit visible.
Does anyone care if a pulpit is visible or not?


If this is the kind of things they have to worry about they should really thank God and be happy. There are bigger and more pressing problems in the world then this.

Jaxon
06-23-2009, 08:07 PM
Unsigned letters aren't worth the paper they're written on.

Jaxon
06-23-2009, 08:08 PM
And posting it here is pointless.

tv1a
06-23-2009, 08:36 PM
I recommend 60 seconds in a dark room with Perez Hilton. That would scare me straight.
So what happens to preachers who get caught doing the things on the list,what correction will they face ? A firing squad perhaps ?

tv1a
06-23-2009, 08:43 PM
Swallowing a gnat and straining a camel. Me thinks people forgot Paul's comments when he reminded the church he didn't come with hot air, dressed to the hilt, but he came with the power and demonstration of the Holy Ghost.

I can't wait for the day when underwear is legislated.

a. There does not appear to be much of distinction between those who sit in the pew and those who stand on the platform.
I would think that you would not want a distinction. Do you want those in leadership to stick out like a sore thumb or something?


b. Pastors often depart from traditional “church dress” to a casual look of open collar, un-tucked shirt, sport coat and jeans.
Why would this be a problem? Is there really a dress code for the type of clothes a minister should wear when he gets up to preach or teach? AND does anyone really care?

c. Pastors prefer sitting in a chair or behind a table. Generally there is no physical pulpit visible.
Does anyone care if a pulpit is visible or not?


If this is the kind of things they have to worry about they should really thank God and be happy. There are bigger and more pressing problems in the world then this.

commonsense
06-23-2009, 08:50 PM
Just what we need, more legislation!

I thought the UPCI was an organization for the ministry. I hope this stays in committee!

Sam
06-23-2009, 08:52 PM
tv1a said:
"I can't wait for the day when underwear is legislated."

-------------------

Well, in some cases it is.

Which youth camp was it where they went through the girls' luggage to check out their underwear and to make sure they weren't wearing anything too sexy or worldly?

And how many preachers have preached about wearing thongs (the underwear, not the flipflop footwear)?

tv1a
06-23-2009, 08:53 PM
You have put God in such a tiny box, it's a wonder He can breathe.
The Bible not only calls this type of thinking witchcraft, but the Bible says fools believe this way. Galatians 3:1



Brethren:

As you, of course, know ministers, every two years, must affirm 2 of 23 Articles of Faith. Among them is the Fundamental Doctrine which includes a unity clause that reads:



With this context, and based on the recent reports by a sub-committee appointed by General Superintendent Haney called the Committee of Inquiry on the Emerging Church in which various dangers and recommendations were made by sitting members of the General Board and published by a General Board Member certain pertinent questions have arisen:

1. If ,the Committee has identified some of these items as dangers and linked them with fellow ministers in the fellowship, such as:

a. There does not appear to be much of distinction between those who sit in the pew and those who stand on the platform.

b. Pastors often depart from traditional “church dress” to a casual look of open collar, un-tucked shirt, sport coat and jeans.

c. Pastors prefer sitting in a chair or behind a table. Generally there is no physical pulpit visible.

d. Emerging Church leaders typically believe full salvation occurs at repentance. Those who fully embrace Emerging Church philosophy would readily agree that although the Blood is applied at repentance, water and spirit baptism are good and could and should be experienced if the individual is open and receptive.

While recommending that the Articles of Faith be taught and understood now, not only ministers but their churches too -

Where do the the Articles of Faith speak against these dangers?
If they do not, when will the Articles of Faith address things such as church layout, "authoritative" dress code for platform ministry, and the when and how of the New Birth?

Some of these items seem to fall under the personal interpretations that General Superintendent Nathaniel Urshan said would not be challenged or imposed upon after the institution of the Affirmation Statement.



However, the same committee has recommended that "District boards may wish to directly address individual pastors who are adrift to carefully reconsider their position."

It may be construed by some in the fellowship that these conclusions are very much contending for one's "different views to the disunity of the body", therefore, a careful and prayerful re-examination of these views and suggested actions may be in order.

God Bless and Good Day.

Sam
06-23-2009, 08:56 PM
quote:
"Pastors prefer sitting in a chair or behind a table. Generally there is no physical pulpit visible."



Isn't that what Jesus did when He spoke at the synagogue in Nazareth?
Read Luke 4:16-21. Jesus read the Scripture from Isaiah 61, then sat down to speak/teach. It was customary for teachers or Rabbis to sit while teaching and for their students or disciples or hearers to sit at their feet.

tv1a
06-23-2009, 08:56 PM
Do you think someone was smoking crack when they came up with that rule?

tv1a said:
"I can't wait for the day when underwear is legislated."

-------------------

Well, in some cases it is.

Which youth camp was it where they went through the girls' luggage to check out their underwear and to make sure they weren't wearing anything too sexy or worldly?

And how many preachers have preached about wearing thongs (the underwear, not the flipflop footwear)?

tv1a
06-23-2009, 09:06 PM
Sound familiar? Sounds like a cherished organization? History repeats itsself.

The name Pharisee in its Hebrew form means separatists, or the separated ones. They were also known as chasidim, which means loyal to God, or loved of God - extremely ironic in view of the fact that by His time, they made themselves the most bitter, and deadly, opponents of Jesus Christ and His message.
The Pharisees perhaps meant to obey God, but eventually they became so devoted and extremist in very limited parts of The Law (plus all that they themselves added to it), that they became blind to The Messiah when He was in their very midst. They saw His miracles, they heard His Words, but instead of receiving it with joy, they did all that they could to stop Him - eventually to the point of getting Him killed because He truthfully claimed to be the Son of God.


Source: http://www.keyway.ca/htm2002/pharisee.htm

jaxfam6
06-23-2009, 10:23 PM
Swallowing a gnat and straining a camel. Me thinks people forgot Paul's comments when he reminded the church he didn't come with hot air, dressed to the hilt, but he came with the power and demonstration of the Holy Ghost.

I can't wait for the day when underwear is legislated.

I am sure it is in some ranks. look at the mormons they wear 'special' undergarments to go into their temple. :ursofunny

TJJJ
06-23-2009, 10:47 PM
I am sure it is in some ranks. look at the mormons they wear 'special' undergarments to go into their temple. :ursofunny

:ursofunny

A little off the subject, Paul Harvey and all the UPCI stuff,

But while I lived in Utah I saw a bumper sticker that said...

"If you think Utah's liquor laws are funny you ought to see their underwear!"

:thumbsup

DAII
09-21-2010, 12:36 PM
Paul, you've nailed it!

ImThankful
09-21-2010, 03:31 PM
Just what we need, more legislation!

I thought the UPCI was an organization for the ministry. I hope this stays in committee!

I attend a UPCI church and have for many yrs. My friend said the other night that those of us that sit in the pews are not UPCI...Its the ministers that are UPCI. We are saints no UPCI about us unless we are licensed and paying our dues. I had never really thought of it like that before.

geekette
09-21-2010, 03:37 PM
I attend a UPCI church and have for many yrs. My friend said the other night that those of us that sit in the pews are not UPCI...Its the ministers that are UPCI. We are saints no UPCI about us unless we are licensed and paying our dues. I had never really thought of it like that before.

Then only the ministers should be counted when it comes time for the UPCI to give a census. You know, all few thousand of them. But that's not the way it's done.

ImThankful
09-21-2010, 04:40 PM
Then only the ministers should be counted when it comes time for the UPCI to give a census. You know, all few thousand of them. But that's not the way it's done.

I would say OK but since Im not paying any dues I cant vote for that LOL:toofunny