Anyone else?

[giftofgrace]

Ok, lately alot of my views have changed on some spiritual issues. Not because it was told to me, not because Ive been backslidden, not because Ive been burned or rebellious. But because I have desired to get closer to God, and have been fervently asking God for wisdom, for understanding of the scriptures and the truth.

For a while a couple of things have just not felt right to me, this became more evident while I was at bible college this past semester. The superficiality I experienced just made me long for more. I found myself thinking sitting through classes like "altar counseling" while the instructor was up there teaching us how to properly "pray a backslider through" and "watching for quivering lips", there has to be more.

First of all, what Ive been taught since Ive been in church but never really contemplated it too much is the common doctrine of "unless they have spoken in tongues they are not a christian". Witnessing, and coming into contact with loads of professing christians who actually truly acted like christians, shining with the love of Christ on their faces, in their actions and words compared to some of the "tongue talkers" who acted less than loveable..time after time, I finally became convicted that this just cannot be true.

Not that I don't want to believe it or am basing just on how I feel. This would break my heart. I would become very confused just thinking, how can I walk around and proclaim every woman who is wearing pants automatically MUST not be saved or have a "real" relationship with God? Forget that she gave me a big smile and said God bless you, after all she did have pants on, makeup, and jewelry. She goes to that church where they seem to have their doctrine pretty bibically based, seem to love and care for their fellow men, actively are involved in programs that help further the Kingdom of God and the reach the community around them, yet they don't jump around and speak in tongues, the women wear pants and jewelry, and the men have moustaches, so they MUST not be true.

I now believe that we are saved through the CROSS, the death of Christ, His grace alone, and when a person believes and TRULY repents. Not just feeling sorry or acknowledging their sin, but truly having the desire to turn away from and live a life consecrated unto God, and acting on it. I also believe salvation is a process, and he who endures to the end shall be saved (meaning REPENTANCE) and I do believe God accepts this. It just seems that it would be against the very nature of God to deny someone once they have a true repentant heart, but may not have spoken in tongues. You may say I'm wrong, maybe I am, but personally as of today I am convinced of this.

MY personal experience with God was an initial peace, which then led to church attendance, baptism ,then few weeks later I was baptised with the Holy Ghost and spoke in other tongues. But I know that not EVERYONE has the same experience. I know that I "forbid not" to speak in tongues, probably every day. I do believe in it and believe all believers should seek after it, but I am not totally kicking those who have never experienced it out of the Body of Christ. If it is rejected or someone professing to be a christian doesnt want it, that's another story. I don't understand why someone wouldn't want it, and it may be an issue of the heart. So all we can do is pray for those people. Not condem them and deem them UNSAVED all the time, I feel this is putting outselves in a severe judgement seat.

Now personally, I still have a conviction against wearing pants, whether its NECESSARY FOR SALVATION or not, which I know it's not. I still feel personally convicted, so I obey. I have a personal conviction on makeup, jewelry, and cutting my hair, out of obedience. Unlike before, I now see these things as simply personal conviction, I obey out of obedience, I don't see anything wrong with obeying them even if unnecessary, if it pleases God I will do it. Yet if someone does not have these convictions does NOT mean they are necessarily wrong. I personally have a conviction against TV & movies, not because of standards or that it's preached in my church, but because I personally do not agree with it. To me personally it's a separation issue. I do believe very strongly in being "separate" not giving the appearance of evil, being separated from the world, which is by the fruit of the Spirit that we show the world.

Yet since I believe these things, I do not judge if someone does not have the exact same convictions as me, as I did before. I believe God will lead a willing open heart into His perfect will. And I pray for that, when I pray for others, instead of condemning, bashing them, or making them feel unworthy or inadequate in my pentecostal circle. I believe once we have a true repentant heart towards God, we are receive into the body of Christ. I also believe the baptism of the Holy Ghost with speaking in other tongues IS a promise to whosoever will seek after it, and I encourage it and believe in it wholeheartedly. I believe once you are a child of God you should naturally be baptised, symbolizing the death and burial, for there should be no reason why you shouldnt want to.

Basically this is the conclusion of my spiritial journey that I have been on the past few weeks, going through sorrow and confusion and questions and just wanting clarity and truth. God has been faithful in answering the deepest questions in my heart. I just want Jesus, I am sick of superficiality and conflict and haughtiness, don't we have enough of it?

Anyone else see where I am coming from?

[Cindy]

It is very difficult to read your post, because all the sentences run together.

[giftofgrace]

Sorry, I wrote it very fast and was rushing.

[Cindy]

Sorry, I wrote it very fast and was rushing.

I understand, I did get the gist of it. And we should all search the scripture for ourselves about our relationship with God. And what we believe.

[*AQuietPlace*]

I'll break it up for you, to make it more readable:




Ok, lately alot of my views have changed on some spiritual issues. Not because it was told to me, not because Ive been backslidden, not because Ive been burned or rebellious. But because I have desired to get closer to God, and have been fervently asking God for wisdom, for understanding of the scriptures and the truth.

For a while a couple of things have just not felt right to me, this became more evident while I was at bible college this past semester. The superficiality I experienced just made me long for more. I found myself thinking sitting through classes like "altar counseling" while the instructor was up there teaching us how to properly "pray a backslider through" and "watching for quivering lips", there has to be more.

First of all, what Ive been taught since Ive been in church but never really contemplated it too much is the common doctrine of "unless they have spoken in tongues they are not a christian". Witnessing, and coming into contact with loads of professing christians who actually truly acted like christians, shining with the love of Christ on their faces, in their actions and words compared to some of the "tongue talkers" who acted less than loveable..time after time, I finally became convicted that this just cannot be true.

Not that I don't want to believe it or am basing just on how I feel. This would break my heart. I would become very confused just thinking, how can I walk around and proclaim every woman who is wearing pants automatically MUST not be saved or have a "real" relationship with God? Forget that she gave me a big smile and said God bless you, after all she did have pants on, makeup, and jewelry. She goes to that church where they seem to have their doctrine pretty bibically based, seem to love and care for their fellow men, actively are involved in programs that help further the Kingdom of God and the reach the community around them, yet they don't jump around and speak in tongues, the women wear pants and jewelry, and the men have moustaches, so they MUST not be true.

I now believe that we are saved through the CROSS, the death of Christ, His grace alone, and when a person believes and TRULY repents. Not just feeling sorry or acknowledging their sin, but truly having the desire to turn away from and live a life consecrated unto God, and acting on it. I also believe salvation is a process, and he who endures to the end shall be saved (meaning REPENTANCE) and I do believe God accepts this. It just seems that it would be against the very nature of God to deny someone once they have a true repentant heart, but may not have spoken in tongues. You may say I'm wrong, maybe I am, but personally as of today I am convinced of this.

MY personal experience with God was an initial peace, which then led to church attendance, baptism ,then few weeks later I was baptised with the Holy Ghost and spoke in other tongues. But I know that not EVERYONE has the same experience. I know that I "forbid not" to speak in tongues, probably every day. I do believe in it and believe all believers should seek after it, but I am not totally kicking those who have never experienced it out of the Body of Christ. If it is rejected or someone professing to be a christian doesnt want it, that's another story. I don't understand why someone wouldn't want it, and it may be an issue of the heart. So all we can do is pray for those people. Not condem them and deem them UNSAVED all the time, I feel this is putting outselves in a severe judgement seat.

Now personally, I still have a conviction against wearing pants, whether its NECESSARY FOR SALVATION or not, which I know it's not. I still feel personally convicted, so I obey. I have a personal conviction on makeup, jewelry, and cutting my hair, out of obedience. Unlike before, I now see these things as simply personal conviction, I obey out of obedience, I don't see anything wrong with obeying them even if unnecessary, if it pleases God I will do it. Yet if someone does not have these convictions does NOT mean they are necessarily wrong. I personally have a conviction against TV & movies, not because of standards or that it's preached in my church, but because I personally do not agree with it. To me personally it's a separation issue. I do believe very strongly in being "separate" not giving the appearance of evil, being separated from the world, which is by the fruit of the Spirit that we show the world.

Yet since I believe these things, I do not judge if someone does not have the exact same convictions as me, as I did before. I believe God will lead a willing open heart into His perfect will. And I pray for that, when I pray for others, instead of condemning, bashing them, or making them feel unworthy or inadequate in my pentecostal circle. I believe once we have a true repentant heart towards God, we are receive into the body of Christ. I also believe the baptism of the Holy Ghost with speaking in other tongues IS a promise to whosoever will seek after it, and I encourage it and believe in it wholeheartedly. I believe once you are a child of God you should naturally be baptised, symbolizing the death and burial, for there should be no reason why you shouldnt want to.

Basically this is the conclusion of my spiritial journey that I have been on the past few weeks, going through sorrow and confusion and questions and just wanting clarity and truth. God has been faithful in answering the deepest questions in my heart. I just want Jesus, I am sick of superficiality and conflict and haughtiness, don't we have enough of it?

Anyone else see where I am coming from?

[deltaguitar]

Ok, lately alot of my views have changed on some spiritual issues. Not because it was told to me, not because Ive been backslidden, not because Ive been burned or rebellious. But because I have desired to get closer to God, and have been fervently asking God for wisdom, for understanding of the scriptures and the truth.

For a while a couple of things have just not felt right to me, this became more evident while I was at bible college this past semester. The superficiality I experienced just made me long for more. I found myself thinking sitting through classes like "altar counseling" while the instructor was up there teaching us how to properly "pray a backslider through" and "watching for quivering lips", there has to be more.

First of all, what Ive been taught since Ive been in church but never really contemplated it too much is the common doctrine of "unless they have spoken in tongues they are not a christian". Witnessing, and coming into contact with loads of professing christians who actually truly acted like christians, shining with the love of Christ on their faces, in their actions and words compared to some of the "tongue talkers" who acted less than loveable..time after time, I finally became convicted that this just cannot be true.

Not that I don't want to believe it or am basing just on how I feel. This would break my heart. I would become very confused just thinking, how can I walk around and proclaim every woman who is wearing pants automatically MUST not be saved or have a "real" relationship with God? Forget that she gave me a big smile and said God bless you, after all she did have pants on, makeup, and jewelry. She goes to that church where they seem to have their doctrine pretty bibically based, seem to love and care for their fellow men, actively are involved in programs that help further the Kingdom of God and the reach the community around them, yet they don't jump around and speak in tongues, the women wear pants and jewelry, and the men have moustaches, so they MUST not be true.

I now believe that we are saved through the CROSS, the death of Christ, His grace alone, and when a person believes and TRULY repents. Not just feeling sorry or acknowledging their sin, but truly having the desire to turn away from and live a life consecrated unto God, and acting on it. I also believe salvation is a process, and he who endures to the end shall be saved (meaning REPENTANCE) and I do believe God accepts this. It just seems that it would be against the very nature of God to deny someone once they have a true repentant heart, but may not have spoken in tongues. You may say I'm wrong, maybe I am, but personally as of today I am convinced of this.

MY personal experience with God was an initial peace, which then led to church attendance, baptism ,then few weeks later I was baptised with the Holy Ghost and spoke in other tongues. But I know that not EVERYONE has the same experience. I know that I "forbid not" to speak in tongues, probably every day. I do believe in it and believe all believers should seek after it, but I am not totally kicking those who have never experienced it out of the Body of Christ. If it is rejected or someone professing to be a christian doesnt want it, that's another story. I don't understand why someone wouldn't want it, and it may be an issue of the heart. So all we can do is pray for those people. Not condem them and deem them UNSAVED all the time, I feel this is putting outselves in a severe judgement seat.

Now personally, I still have a conviction against wearing pants, whether its NECESSARY FOR SALVATION or not, which I know it's not. I still feel personally convicted, so I obey. I have a personal conviction on makeup, jewelry, and cutting my hair, out of obedience. Unlike before, I now see these things as simply personal conviction, I obey out of obedience, I don't see anything wrong with obeying them even if unnecessary, if it pleases God I will do it. Yet if someone does not have these convictions does NOT mean they are necessarily wrong. I personally have a conviction against TV & movies, not because of standards or that it's preached in my church, but because I personally do not agree with it. To me personally it's a separation issue. I do believe very strongly in being "separate" not giving the appearance of evil, being separated from the world, which is by the fruit of the Spirit that we show the world.

Yet since I believe these things, I do not judge if someone does not have the exact same convictions as me, as I did before. I believe God will lead a willing open heart into His perfect will. And I pray for that, when I pray for others, instead of condemning, bashing them, or making them feel unworthy or inadequate in my pentecostal circle. I believe once we have a true repentant heart towards God, we are receive into the body of Christ. I also believe the baptism of the Holy Ghost with speaking in other tongues IS a promise to whosoever will seek after it, and I encourage it and believe in it wholeheartedly. I believe once you are a child of God you should naturally be baptised, symbolizing the death and burial, for there should be no reason why you shouldnt want to.

Basically this is the conclusion of my spiritial journey that I have been on the past few weeks, going through sorrow and confusion and questions and just wanting clarity and truth. God has been faithful in answering the deepest questions in my heart. I just want Jesus, I am sick of superficiality and conflict and haughtiness, don't we have enough of it?

Anyone else see where I am coming from?

I love to see this. It looks like God is working in your life. Continue after him and you will find great peace and rest in his work in your life.

True salvation always results in life change. You are having problems with getting the doctrine to line up with scripture and even basic common sense. That is because much of the foundation of the doctrine you have learned is wrong. Allow Jesus Christ to be your foundation and you will never regret it.

[KWSS1976]

Let me ask you giftofgrace do you believe that baptism saves you if you do I have another question for ya...

[giftofgrace]

Not physically water, no. I believe we should after conversion. On the other hand, if someone refused baptism, that would show that there is something not quite right, I mean after all why would you not want to be baptised. Thats my view on that.

[deltaguitar]

Not physically water, no. I believe we should after conversion. On the other hand, if someone refused baptism, that would show that there is something not quite right, I mean after all why would you not want to be baptised. Thats my view on that.

I don't think there has ever been a real Christian who refused baptism.

[giftofgrace]

Exactly. I have the same view on the baptism in the Holy Ghost and speaking in tongues..

[KWSS1976]

So looks like we have added another one stepper...LOL

[freeatlast]

giftofgrace: it seems almost as though there has been a revival of thirst for truth ofthe word of God over the last several years amongst our churchs.

Many, many people have like you searched the word of God and found our "message" lacking in scriptural support.

Hundreds have come to the same conclusion that you did. That tongues or hell is NOT in the book as we say it is.

Thank God for a bible revival, although some will say it is the great falling away ;-)

[misspresley]

What a journey living for God is!! Hard lessons and easy lessons learned that come with each year you live for Him. His grace and mercy allows us to learn from His Word, His children, and thru our mistakes! Be encouraged - be quick to listen, slow to anger and slow to speak. Will save you a TON of troubles!!

[Scott Hutchinson]

I have been on a spiritual quest for truth,myself on some issues I have changed my views,because after much prayer and study I have a better understanding of the word.
It has been painful to part with some things that I once have held dear,but it's either be comfortable or be biblical.
Now which issues for enquiring minds,I won't delve into,but I still believe firmily in the oneness of God,and what Peter gave as his altar call on the day of Pentecost, and personal Holiness and perfection and sanctification.
Don't worry I'm not going Trini anytime soon,or ever.

[KWSS1976]

Well since ya said all this Scott you did not change very much if at all any...LOL

I still believe firmily in the oneness of God,and what Peter gave as his altar call on the day of Pentecost, and personal Holiness and perfection and sanctification

[Sam]

I don't think there has ever been a real Christian who refused baptism.

I don't agree with you on this.

I know folks that I consider "real" Christians who have not been immersed in water in Jesus' name.
This may be because they were sprinkled as babies and do not think they should be re-baptized as an adult. In their opinion, they have been baptized. Or, these may be folks who have been immersed but in what we call "the titles."

I know folks that I consider "real" Christians who have not spoken with tongues. Some of them believe tongues is one of several gifts and they just do not desire that gift. Some do not believe that tongues is a valid experience or gift for today.

[deltaguitar]

I don't agree with you on this.

I know folks that I consider "real" Christians who have not been immersed in water in Jesus' name.
This may be because they were sprinkled as babies and do not think they should be re-baptized as an adult. In their opinion, they have been baptized. Or, these may be folks who have been immersed but in what we call "the titles."

I know folks that I consider "real" Christians who have not spoken with tongues. Some of them believe tongues is one of several gifts and they just do not desire that gift. Some do not believe that tongues is a valid experience or gift for today.

I was meaning the baptism that they are taught. Most churches teach some form of baptism after conversion or infant baptism and I doubt many will reject that teaching. I know many who have rejected Baptism in Jesus name because they were baptized another way. My meaning of Baptism was very liberal.

[Raven]

Keep seeking and studying, giftofgrace. The Spirit of Truth is leading and will never mislead you! Onward toward the Light!!!
Raven

[Hoovie]

giftofgrace,

First, welcome! I don't know that we have "met" on AFF before.

Second, I think like what you are saying... I need to read it again when I have more time, then will comment.