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Praxeas
06-28-2009, 02:19 PM
If you have ever tried to find doctrinal statements of the UPCI on their webpage, you might have noticed the same things I did.
Namely that their doctrinal statement consists of little "tracts" that someone wrote...including a tract that has nothing to do with what we believe but is an anti-Trinity tract.
But most noticeably MISSING are the articles of faith.
The only places I seem to find the articles of faith are anti Oneness Pentecostal sites or Lois's Spiritual abuse website.
That is totally messed up. And one of things I have noticed is that the AOF don't exactly agree with some of the things others have wrote in certain areas.
For example, the AOF states forgiveness of sins is obtained at repentance.
Water baptism has no mention of "washing away" sins or "remission of sins" but is rather an act of obedience for the person who has repented.
I'd love to email David Bernard on this but the last time I tried to contact him with a question regarding his views I was told by an assistant pastor to read his books.....give me a break
RandyWayne
06-28-2009, 02:30 PM
If you look at the AoG website, they post everything they believe in including the 16 Fundamentals of the Faith.
Praxeas
06-28-2009, 03:02 PM
Yes, other church orgs do this too...the UPCI?
Hoovie
06-28-2009, 05:18 PM
I recently noticed this to Prax - last week in fact... I was looking for an official statement and all I could find was the mini articles. Some of the "tracts" contain outdated arguments.
Hoovie
06-28-2009, 05:20 PM
For example, the AOF states forgiveness of sins is obtained at repentance.
Can you get an exact quote? I thought the "Repentance and conversion" language was changed in the 90's.
Praxeas
06-28-2009, 05:23 PM
Lois says this is the 2005 edition
http://www.spiritualabuse.org/aof.html
freeatlast
06-28-2009, 06:08 PM
Yes, other church orgs do this too...the UPCI?
Problem is Prax, the UPCi can not assemble 10 men in a room and agree on what the upci believes.
One man said once that our doctrines are caught not taught.
tbpew
06-28-2009, 06:35 PM
Yes, other church orgs do this too...the UPCI?
maybe other orgs have a denominated hierarchical structure as compared with being a fellowship organization among independent member-minister folk.
Jamming the airways with a single sound is probably easier when you have an organizational CEO in the same manner that each member minister operates over his own group.
Problem is Prax, the UPCi can not assemble 10 men in a room and agree on what the upci believes.
One man said once that our doctrines are caught not taught.
ROFLMBO!!!:thumbsup
Sept5SavedTeen
06-28-2009, 07:34 PM
Their tract called "The Apostle's Doctrine" is sort of their statement of faith...
This can be found by going to the bar on the right, and scrolling down to "Doctrine."
-Bro. Alex
Sept5SavedTeen
06-28-2009, 07:39 PM
I just saw the video on the front of the AG site, with Trask speaking... wow... they're looking more and more like the Baptists/Methodists everyday... I am glad I jumped ship from the AG back in 2004...
-Bro. Alex
freeatlast
06-28-2009, 08:13 PM
I just saw the video on the front of the AG site, with Trask speaking... wow... they're looking more and more like the Baptists/Methodists everyday... I am glad I jumped ship from the AG back in 2004...
-Bro. Alex
They're probably thrilled about it too. :ursofunny
berkeley
06-28-2009, 08:17 PM
They're probably thrilled about it too. :ursofunny
Come on, now. Be nice to Jason M'raz. :)
Sept5SavedTeen
06-28-2009, 08:25 PM
Come on, now. Be nice to Jason M'raz. :)
I'm stimped as to who Jason M'raz is... lol
-Bro. Alex
Hoovie
06-28-2009, 08:37 PM
Lois says this is the 2005 edition
http://www.spiritualabuse.org/aof.html
The heading currently labeled "Repentance" used to be "Repentance and Conversion" and was changed in the 90's.
berkeley
06-28-2009, 09:16 PM
I'm stimped as to who Jason M'raz is... lol
-Bro. Alex
Just some geek in pink. I think he has a dot com.
Praxeas
06-29-2009, 12:07 AM
The heading currently labeled "Repentance" used to be "Repentance and Conversion" and was changed in the 90's.
True but notice genuine forgiveness of sins is obtained by repentance and no mention of forgiveness, remission or "washing away sins" under baptism?
RandyWayne
06-29-2009, 12:28 AM
Problem is Prax, the UPCi can not assemble 10 men in a room and agree on what the upci believes.
One man said once that our doctrines are caught not taught.
I feel sorry for the people who are told that they must understand "oneness" in order to be saved, yet after hearing oneness people debate amongst themselves what it means, haven't got a chance in you know where!
Hoovie
06-29-2009, 07:42 AM
True but notice genuine forgiveness of sins is obtained by repentance and no mention of forgiveness, remission or "washing away sins" under baptism?
Right. This may also reflect a morphing of the meaning of baptism - since today many would directly include scriptures like "for remission" and "water and spirit" to describe forgiveness and conversion.
Another common teaching used to be to separate the "forgiveness" and "remission", with direct correlation to repentance and baptism only.
POWERUP
06-29-2009, 07:44 AM
Amen Randy Wayne!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
True but notice genuine forgiveness of sins is obtained by repentance and no mention of forgiveness, remission or "washing away sins" under baptism?
That part (and many other parts) of the original UPC manual were carried over from the PCI manual. Some have been modified/changed/cleaned up over the years in an effort to get away from PCI influence.
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