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U376977
07-03-2009, 07:19 PM
This from: http://emergentobserver.blogspot.com/ Article called "mary mary."
Interesting......

"The word hairdresser found in the quote above is a translation of the original megaddlela (one who elevates the hair); it’s a euphemism implying a prostitute or other woman of ill repute. Although Rabbeinu Tam, a medieval master of Jewish law, informs us that this is not a reference to the follower of Yeshua who would have lived 100 years earlier, commentary on the text nevertheless adds profound insight into our messianic story. It was Rabbeinu Tam’s grandfather Rashi who gave clarification on the word megaddlela establishing our current definition and understanding of the word.

For well over a thousand years there has been a debate regarding the identity of the woman who washed Yeshua’s feet with her tears and dried them with her hair. We’re given the name Miriam, but for generations it has been unclear whether or not this was the Miriam called Magdala. If we understand this name the way Rashi does. If we take the term to denote “one who elevates the hair” then perhaps the two characters are one and the same Miriam…it makes sense; we’re supposed to see the contrast. The story reads more beautifully this way. Miriam, the one who raised her hair above her convictions was transformed by the presence of the tzaddik Yeshua. Her hair, once treasured above all else, became like rags used to dry the feet of her master."

Praxeas
07-03-2009, 08:06 PM
No!

Sister Alvear
07-03-2009, 08:18 PM
up or down...it does not matter...

Esther
07-03-2009, 08:24 PM
up or down...it does not matter...

Agreed!

RandyWayne
07-03-2009, 08:25 PM
I am sure that in some small Southern church, it IS a heaven or hell issue.

"There will be NO married woman with their hair DOWN in heaven! Nay, not one!"

and in another church....

"There will be NO married woman with their hair UP in heaven! Nay, not one!"

It all reminds me of the early scene in Airplane!, "Remember, there will be no parking IN the yellow lines."

a minute later

"Remember, there will be no parking outside the yellow lines!"

Dordrecht
07-03-2009, 09:24 PM
How about side-ways??

Falla39
07-03-2009, 10:14 PM
Should women wear their hair up?

If she wants to!:thumbsup

MawMaw
07-03-2009, 10:16 PM
Women should wear their long hair anyway they choose. Just make sure it's clean! :D

RandyWayne
07-03-2009, 11:10 PM
On the hunt!

"What are they hunting?" you ask? You HAVE to ask?

http://www.ninetyandnine.com/month/uploaded_images/Hair-786951.JPG

whocanitbe
07-04-2009, 12:13 AM
Are you kidding me? We waste our time hashing and rehashing this nonsense when people are lost and dying all around us? I'm sure the Lord sits and shakes his head in utter disgust.

CC1
07-04-2009, 07:51 AM
How about side-ways??

Ah.....you beat me to it!

CC1
07-04-2009, 08:02 AM
My favorite hair story is from around the very early 1980's. Probably 1981 or 1982. My wife and I were in Jackson, MS for the annual big National Music Ministry Conference along with a few thousand other Pentecostals.

When we were in a store at the mall waiting on an elevator we saw heads suddenly snapping around and looks of amazement and shock on fellow shoppers faces. When we turned to see what they were looking at we saw a very classily dressed UPC couple walking toward us.

The were both dressed very nicely with the man having on a well fitting suit and the woman a very classy and pretty dress.

The head turner was the woman's hair. It was truly a "beehive" hairdo. By that I mean it was somehow extremely smoothly (think cotton candy here) fixed so that it began at her scalp and rose, shaped like a cone, a good two feet up, getting smaller as it went up. There were no curls just this smooth mass of hair rising to an incredible height.

For you old timers it looked EXACTLY like the "Coneheads" on Saturday Night Live at the time. The Coneheads were characters in SNL skits. They were aliens from another planet wth heads shaped like cones and this woman's hair made her head appear EXACTLY as those characters looked. I am guessing this must have been what was going through peoples minds as they suppressed laughs and turned their heads away to hide grins.

The sad thing is that this man and woman obvoiusly knew all of the head turning going on and they both walked by with proud, almost smug looks on their faces like they were saying " yes look at our glorious selfs you poor unwahsed and unclean heatherns".

I just can't believe that somebody, somewhere whom this woman trusted would not tell her she looked like a moron and was not reflecting any glory for God in any way, shape or fashion.

U376977
07-04-2009, 09:13 AM
Good grief everyone! It was supposed to be funny! I was in a serious mood when I posted it so I said "interesting," but this morning I am laughing.

I can imagine that everytime I see a woman with "megaddlela" (hair in a beehive) I will remember this and smile. It is not like it is a new foundation doctrine!

Timmy
07-04-2009, 09:22 AM
Some should. ;)

http://wwwc.mentalfloss.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/marge-beehive.jpg

Falla39
07-04-2009, 09:24 AM
Good grief everyone! It was supposed to be funny! I was in a serious mood when I posted it so I said "interesting," but this morning I am laughing.

I can imagine that everytime I see a woman with "megaddlela" (hair in a beehive) I will remember this and smile. It is not like it is a new foundation doctrine!

There will always be the extremes, one way or another. If you want to see
some extremes, look at the music world and look at Hollywood.
Yes, there are extremes in the church world. But I have seen the end of
enough of the extreme in the church world to know that I do not want to
be on either end of the extreme. I have seen the lax and I have seen the
super-(so-called) spiritual. I don't find either place attractive!!!

Blessings,

Falla39

Cindy
07-04-2009, 09:30 AM
There will always be the extremes, one way or another. If you want to see
some extremes, look at the music world and look at Hollywood.
Yes, there are extremes in the church world. But I have seen the end of
enough of the extreme in the church world to know that I do not want to
be on either end of the extreme. I have seen the lax and I have seen the
super-(so-called) spiritual. I don't find either place attractive!!!

Blessings,

Falla39

:thumbsup

Timmy
07-04-2009, 09:40 AM
Good grief everyone! It was supposed to be funny! I was in a serious mood when I posted it so I said "interesting," but this morning I am laughing.

I can imagine that everytime I see a woman with "megaddlela" (hair in a beehive) I will remember this and smile. It is not like it is a new foundation doctrine!

I don't think you could make something up that's outrageous enough that nobody would believe you're serious. Not here on AFF, anyway! :lol

Steve Epley
07-04-2009, 10:43 AM
Yes married ladies should wear their hair up.

giftofgrace
07-04-2009, 10:58 AM
Is there anyone who can give a biblical explanation for either way?

*AQuietPlace*
07-04-2009, 11:03 AM
Is there anyone who can give a biblical explanation for either way?
Lol.

No.

Well, you might find some support for wearing it down. Hard to dry Jesus' feet with your hair when it's pinned up in a bun.

giftofgrace
07-04-2009, 11:08 AM
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g20/native_love/amy-winehouse-beehive-hairstyle_49.jpg

RandyWayne
07-04-2009, 11:15 AM
UNmarried:
http://www.americas-fr.com/musique/shakira/shakira-02.jpg

Married:
http://images.easyart.com/i/prints/rw/lg/1/3/Grant-Wood-American-Gothic--1930-13297.jpg

Sister Alvear
07-04-2009, 11:26 AM
Randy...thanks for the humor!

Falla39
07-04-2009, 12:15 PM
After I married and especially after I began to have my children, I started wearing my
hair up. Not because anyone told me I SHOULD. With small children underfoot, I person-
ally felt it would be a "worry or nuience" to have my hair "in my face, etc." This is not
in anyway, to speak against a woman that feels otherwise. This is MY personal story,
fifty yrs, after the fact.

I will be 70 yrs. (in Sept), which seems unbelivable to me (where have the years gone)!
I have longer hair than when I first married, but it had always been thin and not long. I
received the Holy Ghost between the year (1957) and the year I married (1959). The
summer of 1958 I received the Holy Ghost. I thank God HE found me, just in time. I am
a wife of almost 50 yrs (next Saturday, July 11, 2009), the mother of six wonderful
adult children (three of each), the mother in law of six wonderful "children" God gave me
when they married our sons and daughters. We have 20 gorgeous grandchildren, of which
15 are boys, ages 1-25 1/2. We have 5 beautiful granddaughters ages, 3-13. Just as my
paternal grandmother, Lizzie Blakey, I have taken my position as a MENTOR very
seriously. Too much to lose to do otherwise.

Having your hair hanging down when you are married and have young children, could
appear as if you are foot loose and fancy free. or availabe. You can laugh all you want
too, but I could tell you several stories. I know this does not apply in every situation
and sometimes men want their wives to stay/look/act "young" and all that goes with it.

Hey, Bro. or Sis., we are all going to get older. No exceptions! And you better watch
that spirit. Sometimes it is accompanied by PRIDE. The pride of life.

It's HIGH time to grow up!! It's later than you may think! Divorce has crept into
the church by leaps and bounds. Even in the ministry. Don't ever think it could not
happen to you. I know some ot the "best" it has happened to.

1Peter 5:1
1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Just some sober thoughts and words of wisdom to those who have an ear to hear.

Certainly not for offense to anyone, male or female.

Falla39

mfblume
07-04-2009, 12:17 PM
...this discussion can be found only on an apostolic forum.

Falla39
07-04-2009, 12:24 PM
Lol.

No.

Well, you might find some support for wearing it down. Hard to dry Jesus' feet with your hair when it's pinned up in a bun.

Obviously if she were going to dry His feet with her hair, she wouldn't
have it up. LOL!

giftofgrace
07-04-2009, 12:27 PM
“Tradition becomes our security, and when the mind is secure it is in decay”
Jiddu Krishnamurti

Not meant to offend anyone, just to ponder

Falla39
07-04-2009, 03:15 PM
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g20/native_love/amy-winehouse-beehive-hairstyle_49.jpg

I've never seen an apostolic lady that looked like this!:nah

Justin
07-04-2009, 04:07 PM
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g20/native_love/amy-winehouse-beehive-hairstyle_49.jpg

See? She looks Apostolic. :gotcha

Truthseeker
07-04-2009, 04:18 PM
Yes married ladies should wear their hair up.

Why?

Truthseeker
07-04-2009, 04:22 PM
After I married and especially after I began to have my children, I started wearing my
hair up. Not because anyone told me I SHOULD. With small children underfoot, I person-
ally felt it would be a "worry or nuience" to have my hair "in my face, etc." This is not
in anyway, to speak against a woman that feels otherwise. This is MY personal story,
fifty yrs, after the fact.

I will be 70 yrs. (in Sept), which seems unbelivable to me (where have the years gone)!
I have longer hair than when I first married, but it had always been thin and not long. I
received the Holy Ghost between the year (1957) and the year I married (1959). The
summer of 1958 I received the Holy Ghost. I thank God HE found me, just in time. I am
a wife of almost 50 yrs (next Saturday, July 11, 2009), the mother of six wonderful
adult children (three of each), the mother in law of six wonderful "children" God gave me
when they married our sons and daughters. We have 20 gorgeous grandchildren, of which
15 are boys, ages 1-25 1/2. We have 5 beautiful granddaughters ages, 3-13. Just as my
paternal grandmother, Lizzie Blakey, I have taken my position as a MENTOR very
seriously. Too much to lose to do otherwise.

Having your hair hanging down when you are married and have young children, could
appear as if you are foot loose and fancy free. or availabe. You can laugh all you want
too, but I could tell you several stories. I know this does not apply in every situation
and sometimes men want their wives to stay/look/act "young" and all that goes with it.

Hey, Bro. or Sis., we are all going to get older. No exceptions! And you better watch
that spirit. Sometimes it is accompanied by PRIDE. The pride of life.

It's HIGH time to grow up!! It's later than you may think! Divorce has crept into
the church by leaps and bounds. Even in the ministry. Don't ever think it could not
happen to you. I know some ot the "best" it has happened to.

1Peter 5:1
1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

5 Likewise, ye younger, submit yourselves unto the elder. Yea, all of you be subject one to another, and be clothed with humility: for God resisteth the proud, and giveth grace to the humble.
6 Humble yourselves therefore under the mighty hand of God, that he may exalt you in due time:

13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

Just some sober thoughts and words of wisdom to those who have an ear to hear.

Certainly not for offense to anyone, male or female.

Falla39

What happen to long hair being her glory?

My wife looks dynamite with her hair up. For many women hair up could incite lust in men, not womens issue, but none the less for some they look very desirable when they do so.

MissBrattified
07-04-2009, 04:37 PM
Yes married ladies should wear their hair up.

Why?

OnTheFritz
07-04-2009, 05:04 PM
Yes married ladies should wear their hair up.

Showing their bare neck? You don't think that is more provocative and potentially less modest?

OnTheFritz
07-04-2009, 05:15 PM
Having your hair hanging down when you are married and have young children, couldappear as if you are foot loose and fancy free. or availabe. You can laugh all you want too, but I could tell you several stories. I know this does not apply in every situation and sometimes men want their wives to stay/look/act "young" and all that goes with it.

Seriously? It just seems so arbitrary. It is at this point that we are certainly way beyond anything biblical and into something cultural.... and that would be the culture of the 1940s if not earlier.

A married, decked out, hair-up, skirt-wearing UPC woman in high-heels can convey just as much of an "inviting" spirit if that is her intent. This is an issue of the spirit.

It is these sorts of random laws that cause many people to throw out the baby with the bathwater, IMO.

Wonder if it's worth it....

commonsense
07-04-2009, 05:58 PM
Does it really matter?

Is it hot outside? Then wear your hair up to cool your neck.
Is it cold? Wear your hair down.
Quite profound......... :noidea

*AQuietPlace*
07-04-2009, 07:15 PM
My husband prefers mine down. And I thought that was who I was supposed to please.

Truthseeker
07-04-2009, 07:40 PM
My husband prefers mine down. And I thought that was who I was supposed to please.

And my wife looks awesome with hers up. Great point about pleasing husbands.

RandyWayne
07-04-2009, 07:57 PM
And my wife looks awesome with hers up. Great point about pleasing husbands.

Not ALL "up" styles are bad. :)

http://blog.laparca.es/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/blade-runner-racheal.jpg

U376977
07-04-2009, 09:29 PM
Yes married ladies should wear their hair up.

Why? that is just a weird statement.

UNmarried:
http://www.americas-fr.com/musique/shakira/shakira-02.jpg

Married:
http://images.easyart.com/i/prints/rw/lg/1/3/Grant-Wood-American-Gothic--1930-13297.jpg

So funny! LOL

Having your hair hanging down when you are married and have young children, could
appear as if you are foot loose and fancy free. or availabe. You can laugh all you want Falla39

I am. Is it not odd that someone would make such a statement about "hair hanging down...foot loose and fancy free..." when the man quoted in the thread starter said the Hebrew means just the opposite, that wearing hair up really means a "whore."

Long or short, up or down, I really don't care. I find it odd that so many people do????

U376977
07-04-2009, 09:31 PM
http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g20/native_love/amy-winehouse-beehive-hairstyle_49.jpg

See? She looks Apostolic. :gotcha

She is a Church of God spy trying to look like one of us. A Jezabel witch trying to steal one of our holy Apostolic boys!!! LOL.

RandyWayne
07-04-2009, 09:33 PM
She is a Church of God spy trying to look like one of us. A Jezabel witch trying to steal one of our holy Apostolic boys!!! LOL.

Do I see a "Blazing Saddles" scene in the works?

berkeley
07-04-2009, 09:53 PM
why should married women wear their hair up? hair is a covering.... what is covered if it's in a holy bun?

Falla39
07-04-2009, 10:07 PM
I have said all that I am going to say about the subject. I am many miles/years
further up the road of life than most on this forum. I can't expect most to under-
stand where I am coming from. So I shall save my words for those perhaps who
have a seeing eye and an hearing ear.

Blessings,

Falla39

Hoovie
07-04-2009, 10:13 PM
Personally I don't think it matters. Yet if one has gray hair it seems more appropriate putting it up.

Truthseeker
07-04-2009, 11:43 PM
I have said all that I am going to say about the subject. I am many miles/years
further up the road of life than most on this forum. I can't expect most to under-
stand where I am coming from. So I shall save my words for those perhaps who
have a seeing eye and an hearing ear.

Blessings,

Falla39

So those who don't agree with hair being up in a bun do not have seeing eyes and hearing ears???

Ever notice some hair up dos make a women hair appear short like a man?

soldoutochrist
07-04-2009, 11:48 PM
So those who don't agree with hair being up in a bun do not have seeing eyes and hearing ears???

Ever notice some hair up dos make a women hair appear short like a man?

I've been reading this thread on and off, and I have to say that I just can't believe how arbitrary we get as Christians. I know that this is a forum for discussion, but the fact that we nitpick hairstyles just blows my mind sometimes. There's so much more to life and the Christian walk than whether someone chooses to pin their hair up. Just my two cents, as always. :) And not responding to this post, just responding in general.

RandyWayne
07-05-2009, 12:33 AM
I've been reading this thread on and off, and I have to say that I just can't believe how arbitrary we get as Christians. I know that this is a forum for discussion, but the fact that we nitpick hairstyles just blows my mind sometimes. There's so much more to life and the Christian walk than whether someone chooses to pin their hair up. Just my two cents, as always. :) And not responding to this post, just responding in general.

The nitpicking can get pretty incredible, but as far as having "nothing better to do" I am ALSO playing Mafia Wars on Facebook on another browser tab as well as doing some image editing with Photoshop. And even occasionally helping my wife hold one of the dogs down so she can cut some mats out of his hair.
(I know YOU didn't make that argument, but it is a common one.)

U376977
07-05-2009, 03:25 AM
why should married women wear their hair up? hair is a covering.... what is covered if it's in a holy bun?

I think I just got the revelation of this whole thing! I cant believe no one else got this. Wow. Amazing. Wonderful. Awesome.

It is part of the holy-magic-hair revelation.

All agree, If she is married, it should go up. She should not be using her holy magic hair to seduce the angels to overpower the boys into fornication!

If she is not married then it should be worn down so that even the ugly women will have power with the angels to get the best looking husbands. And why not go get the best in town, even if they are church of God or AG, especially if they play an instrument, let the Holy Hair work to get the guys into the APOSTOLIC CHURCH OF THE HOLY HAIR.

LOL!

Falla39
07-05-2009, 06:45 AM
Quoted by Falla39:
After I married and especially after I began to have my children, I started wearing my
hair up. Not because anyone told me I SHOULD. With small children underfoot, I person-
ally felt it would be a "worry or nuience" to have my hair "in my face, etc." This is not
in anyway, to speak against a woman that feels otherwise. This is MY personal story,
fifty yrs, after the fact.

Falla39
07-05-2009, 08:12 AM
I feel to add this point. Take some of the subjects discussed on this forum,
up with someone after you have three generations of your family.. I say someone be-
cause I possibly won't be around.

When I was a "kid", I thought my grandmother and her son, my late father, was so old
"foggey". Amazing after three generations, how much I understand their words. I thank
God for those who loved me enough to stand in the "gap" until I got in.:mama

Hugs,

Falla39

Apocrypha
07-05-2009, 09:37 AM
I think I just got the revelation of this whole thing! I cant believe no one else got this. Wow. Amazing. Wonderful. Awesome.

It is part of the holy-magic-hair revelation.

All agree, If she is married, it should go up. She should not be using her holy magic hair to seduce the angels to overpower the boys into fornication!

If she is not married then it should be worn down so that even the ugly women will have power with the angels to get the best looking husbands. And why not go get the best in town, even if they are church of God or AG, especially if they play an instrument, let the Holy Hair work to get the guys into the APOSTOLIC CHURCH OF THE HOLY HAIR.

LOL!

You've got the truth Brother! Let your light shine with the Apostolic truth that God came to Earth in the form of a man to shed his blood so we can have magic hair power! Don't be a undercover brother and let your light shine!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tvgxjktiLE&feature=related

berkeley
07-05-2009, 12:02 PM
Where I am from, with all the good and bad (mostly good), I am grateful that we were never taught that married women should wear their hair up.
The women, married and single wear their hair up or down, at their own whim.

RandyWayne
07-05-2009, 12:07 PM
My hair is "up" right now. Otherwise known as bed head, but it will soon be "down".

berkeley
07-05-2009, 12:12 PM
it's kinda late, weekend and all...

freeatlast
07-06-2009, 09:34 AM
Within a short distance from us there are two churches. One teaches hair up, the other hair down. Both upc ministers believe they have heard from God on this.

I think God and the Apostle Paul are having this conversation. Paul asking God, Lord, how did those crazy holiness folks get THAT out what I wrote to the Corinthians???????

MissBrattified
07-06-2009, 09:49 AM
I feel to add this point. Take some of the subjects discussed on this forum,
up with someone after you have three generations of your family.. I say someone be-
cause I possibly won't be around.

When I was a "kid", I thought my grandmother and her son, my late father, was so old
"foggey". Amazing after three generations, how much I understand their words. I thank
God for those who loved me enough to stand in the "gap" until I got in.:mama

Hugs,

Falla39

Sis. Falla,

My mother turned 76 years old yesterday, and she is a beautiful, Christian woman. She's been in the church for more than 35 years. She still compliments me when I wear my hair down, and I have never heard her say anything at all about women looking "foot loose" or "fancy-free" when they wear their hair down.

In fact, a few weeks ago, I was nearly late for church because my husband had asked me to wear my hair down, and it took me forever to arrange it (and it still didn't hold a curl! :foottap). Anyway, I complained about it a little, and my mother told me that if Jeff wanted it down, I should wear it down more often. And she is right, of course!!! :thumbsup

I would say she has just as much validity as input from an elder as you do--as does Sis. Alvear who said it doesn't matter.

Furthermore, we teach our daughters that long hair is beautiful, feminine, and a glory to them. Why would we then contradict that by telling them it's inappropriate (worn down) for some reason? That just doesn't make sense.

I think women look beautiful with long hair, worn down. I see absolutely no valid, logical reason for stating it should be worn up, and definitely no valid scriptural support.

Cindy
07-06-2009, 09:53 AM
I wore my hair down to church yesterday morning. Last night for our family night at church, I wore it in a pony tail. I can't really do much of an updo with my fine, thin, straight hair. So it is usually in a little bun if I wear it up.

berkeley
07-06-2009, 09:58 AM
I'm wearing my hair in a bun today. :)

MarcBee
07-06-2009, 10:17 AM
Wear up hair,
wear down hair,
wear out hair!

:girlnails

ForeverBlessed
07-06-2009, 12:22 PM
...this discussion can be found only on an apostolic forum.

you are so right.. :wacko

freeatlast
07-06-2009, 12:49 PM
Why?

Same reason that men in Steve's church must be clean shaven..it's the traditions of men. PERIOD>>>>> there ain't no bible for it.

freeatlast
07-06-2009, 12:51 PM
Yes married ladies should wear their hair up.

I don't spose you got any scripture for that do ya Steve?

Scott Hutchinson
07-06-2009, 12:52 PM
Shame on women wearing their hair down,it's bedroom hair you know,and that's the law,just because a preacher said so too.

Scott Hutchinson
07-06-2009, 12:53 PM
Why we need bible for things ? Paul wrote his own you know.

freeatlast
07-06-2009, 12:58 PM
Is there anyone who can give a biblical explanation for either way?

If you are gonna swallow the uncut hair doctrine, i would think it would require you to wear it down

If it is in fact your "veil" you just gotta wear it down and let it cover your neck and shoulders and as much of your face as possible. No matter if you are young or old, married or single.

To claim long hair as your veil and to pile it on top of your head and wrap it in pop knot on top yo head and then to claim you have long hair...
..well that is about as consistent as any other of our doctrines.

GrowingPains
07-06-2009, 01:51 PM
Does our culture have a extremely negative symbol about women with their hair down? No? Well, then what is our concern? Elder Epley, why do you believe a woman should wear it down? You also believe a woman's hair is not just her glory (beauty) but a spiritual glory, should she not present that?

Falla39
07-06-2009, 01:55 PM
Some, male and female, never heard what I REALLY said. They heard what they
WANTED to hear. It better served their spirit. The are many spirits gone out into
the world today. Opposing, resisting, deceiving, hindering, vexing, provoking
spirits, etc.

Never was I told or taught, to wear my hair up or down.

I made some comments as to why I wore my hair up, as a young mother and
wife. I also made the following statement:

"This is not in anyway, to speak against a woman that feels otherwise.
This is MY personal story, fifty yrs, after the fact".

I never heard of the "magic hair" term until I heard it on AFF.

If the Bible (Word) had itemized every thing, there would have been no need for
the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Truth to come. The truth was hid from the wise (in
their own eyes) and prudent, and revealed unto babes (open humble spirit willing
to receive).

I feel very sorry for some young mothers and fathers, even ministers, today with
young and teenage children, and grandchildren.

Instead of opposing and resisting the things my elders told me, we didn't back talk
and although we DID NOT understand the reasoning of some of their words, we
listened, respected and waited.... at least until we became adults.

If we don't listen to our godly parents as children, we will answer to GOd
as adults.

Ever notice how many times in Rev.3, it says, He that hath an ear, let him hear what
the Spirit saith to the churches. It is not just to the church but to as many as are led
(a choice) by the Spirit of God. A teachable spirit is not something we see in
abundance today, sad to say.

Falla39

GrowingPains
07-06-2009, 01:59 PM
Some, male and female, never heard what I REALLY said. They heard what they
WANTED to hear. It better served their spirit. The are many spirits gone out into
the world today. Opposing, resisting, deceiving, hindering, vexing, provoking
spirits, etc.

Never was I told or taught, to wear my hair up or down.

I made some comments as to why I wore my hair up, as a young mother and
wife. I also made the following statement:

"This is not in anyway, to speak against a woman that feels otherwise.
This is MY personal story, fifty yrs, after the fact".

I never heard of the "magic hair" term until I heard it on AFF.

If the Bible (Word) had itemized every thing, there would have been no need for
the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Truth to come. The truth was hid from the wise (in
their own eyes) and prudent, and revealed unto babes (open humble spirit willing
to receive).

I feel very sorry for some young mothers and fathers, even ministers, today with
young and teenage children, and grandchildren.

Instead of opposing and resisting the things my elders told me, we didn't back talk
and although we DID NOT understand the reasoning of some of their words, we
listened, respected and waited.... at least until we got older.

If we don't listen to our godly parents as children, we will answer to GOd
as adults.

Ever notice how many times in Rev.3, it says, He that hath an ear, let him hear what
the Spirit saith to the churches. It is not just to the church but to as many as are led
(a choice) by the Spirit of God. A teachable spirit is not something we see in
abundance today, sad to say.

Falla39

Falla, and there you have it. Some get defensive with anyone's conviction, sensitive that you are condemning them. I think it's fine if a lady feels it's more enduring to wear her hair up, or even if God would be more pleased with it. That's what Holiness is... asking God what pleases Him most and doing it in spite of everyone else.

Aquila
07-06-2009, 02:04 PM
Women are not required to wear their hair up or down. Where are we getting all these questions about requirements? The truth is... the uncut hair doctrine is an honest misinterpretation of I Corinthians 11. Paul was addressing a modesty issue in the Corinthian church. The "covering" is exactly that, a "covering". For a Corinthian being unveiled was considered immodest. The statement regarding a woman's hair being given her as a covering is part of Paul's comparison with nature to demonstrate that if nature veils her naturally... her head should be covered in church gatherings. In today's culture a woman isn't considered immodest or shaming her head (meaning her husband) if she doesn't wear a covering. However, this principle can apply to mini-skirts, low cut blouses, and clothing that is too tight or revealing. Modesty is the key, and the shaming of one's husband by appearing immodest was the issue.

But... if one is convicted to never cut their hair and to wear it a certain way because they feel it's necessary... that's one's choice.

GrowingPains
07-06-2009, 02:08 PM
Women are not required to wear their hair up or down. Where are we getting all these questions about requirements? The truth is... the uncut hair doctrine is an honest misinterpretation of I Corinthians 11. Paul was addressing a modesty issue in the Corinthian church. The "covering" is exactly that, a "covering". For a Corinthian being unveiled was considered immodest. The statement regarding a woman's hair being given her as a covering is part of Paul's comparison with nature to demonstrate that if nature veils her naturally... her head should be covered in church gatherings. In today's culture a woman isn't considered immodest or shaming her head (meaning her husband) if she doesn't wear a covering. However, this principle can apply to mini-skirts, low cut blouses, and clothing that is too tight or revealing. Modesty is the key, and the shaming of one's husband by appearing immodest was the issue.

But... if one is convicted to never cut their hair and to wear it a certain way because they feel it's necessary... that's one's choice.

Amen.

MissBrattified
07-06-2009, 02:13 PM
Some, male and female, never heard what I REALLY said. They heard what they
WANTED to hear. It better served their spirit. The are many spirits gone out into
the world today. Opposing, resisting, deceiving, hindering, vexing, provoking
spirits, etc.

Never was I told or taught, to wear my hair up or down.

I made some comments as to why I wore my hair up, as a young mother and
wife. I also made the following statement:

"This is not in anyway, to speak against a woman that feels otherwise.
This is MY personal story, fifty yrs, after the fact".

I never heard of the "magic hair" term until I heard it on AFF.

If the Bible (Word) had itemized every thing, there would have been no need for
the Holy Ghost, the Spirit of Truth to come. The truth was hid from the wise (in
their own eyes) and prudent, and revealed unto babes (open humble spirit willing
to receive).

I feel very sorry for some young mothers and fathers, even ministers, today with
young and teenage children, and grandchildren.

Instead of opposing and resisting the things my elders told me, we didn't back talk
and although we DID NOT understand the reasoning of some of their words, we
listened, respected and waited.... at least until we became adults.

If we don't listen to our godly parents as children, we will answer to GOd
as adults.

Ever notice how many times in Rev.3, it says, He that hath an ear, let him hear what
the Spirit saith to the churches. It is not just to the church but to as many as are led
(a choice) by the Spirit of God. A teachable spirit is not something we see in
abundance today, sad to say.

Falla39

Sis. Falla,

What does this post have to do with the topic? I take instruction from my elders as well. None of them share your feelings about women wearing their hair down.

It isn't disrespectful for people on this forum to disagree with your posts, and ask for clear reasoning behind them.

I do have a teachable spirit, and disagreeing with your post doesn't indicate otherwise. When my mother or one of my older sisters speak to me about issues, I listen, and don't argue, even if I disagree. When my pastor teaches about something, I listen, and try to hear his point of view--even if I don't like it. When someone on this forum speaks, I read, and respond as if we are equals, because no one on this forum is in a position of authority over me.

IMO, you need to stop touting the fact that you are an elder woman as a prop for your views. Instead, support your views with scripture and clear reasoning. No one earns respect simply by aging. If that were the case, then a lot of ungodly older people would demand respect, based on age alone.

Please pardon my plain speaking--I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I like to base conversations around what the Word has to say, and I take the opinions of men--and women--with a grain of salt. God's Word should have the final say on everything, whether by principle or black and white verse.

Theophil
07-06-2009, 02:49 PM
My favorite hair story is from around the very early 1980's. Probably 1981 or 1982. My wife and I were in Jackson, MS for the annual big National Music Ministry Conference along with a few thousand other Pentecostals.

When we were in a store at the mall waiting on an elevator we saw heads suddenly snapping around and looks of amazement and shock on fellow shoppers faces. When we turned to see what they were looking at we saw a very classily dressed UPC couple walking toward us.

The were both dressed very nicely with the man having on a well fitting suit and the woman a very classy and pretty dress.

The head turner was the woman's hair. It was truly a "beehive" hairdo. By that I mean it was somehow extremely smoothly (think cotton candy here) fixed so that it began at her scalp and rose, shaped like a cone, a good two feet up, getting smaller as it went up. There were no curls just this smooth mass of hair rising to an incredible height.

For you old timers it looked EXACTLY like the "Coneheads" on Saturday Night Live at the time. The Coneheads were characters in SNL skits. They were aliens from another planet wth heads shaped like cones and this woman's hair made her head appear EXACTLY as those characters looked. I am guessing this must have been what was going through peoples minds as they suppressed laughs and turned their heads away to hide grins.

The sad thing is that this man and woman obvoiusly knew all of the head turning going on and they both walked by with proud, almost smug looks on their faces like they were saying " yes look at our glorious selfs you poor unwahsed and unclean heatherns".

I just can't believe that somebody, somewhere whom this woman trusted would not tell her she looked like a moron and was not reflecting any glory for God in any way, shape or fashion.

ROFL!!!!! :ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny:ursofunny

U376977
07-06-2009, 03:21 PM
Sis. Falla,

What does this post have to do with the topic? I take instruction from my elders as well. None of them share your feelings about women wearing their hair down.

It isn't disrespectful for people on this forum to disagree with your posts, and ask for clear reasoning behind them.

I do have a teachable spirit, and disagreeing with your post doesn't indicate otherwise. When my mother or one of my older sisters speak to me about issues, I listen, and don't argue, even if I disagree. When my pastor teaches about something, I listen, and try to hear his point of view--even if I don't like it. When someone on this forum speaks, I read, and respond as if we are equals, because no one on this forum is in a position of authority over me.

IMO, you need to stop touting the fact that you are an elder woman as a prop for your views. Instead, support your views with scripture and clear reasoning. No one earns respect simply by aging. If that were the case, then a lot of ungodly older people would demand respect, based on age alone.

Please pardon my plain speaking--I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I like to base conversations around what the Word has to say, and I take the opinions of men--and women--with a grain of salt. God's Word should have the final say on everything, whether by principle or black and white verse.

I've got to agree with you here, miss bratt. It seems like falla39 uses the "im old and wiser than you" on EVERY post. Reminds me of Dr. Vaughn saying, "Im a Dr. so you better listen to me, if you were as educated me..you ignorant...."
And I might be reading more into it than she meant but when she wrote the below it sounds to me IMO like she was saying everyone who did not bow to the wise one had a "bad spirit."
Sorry if I am wrong or way off base because I dnk sis. falla39. Just read a couple of her posts.


Some, male and female, never heard what I REALLY said. They heard what they
WANTED to hear. It better served their spirit. The are many spirits gone out into
the world today. Opposing, resisting, deceiving, hindering, vexing, provoking
spirits, etc.

OnTheFritz
07-06-2009, 04:33 PM
Instead of opposing and resisting the things my elders told me, we didn't back talk and although we DID NOT understand the reasoning of some of their words, we listened, respected and waited.... at least until we became adults.

...which is why we now have so many man-made traditions that have become gospel. I understand and respect what my elders have to say. But if it is correct, it should be able to withstand some scrutiny.

I have to agree with MissB's comments.

RandyWayne
07-06-2009, 05:25 PM
The more I think about it the more I think I am at the prime of my life. My 40th is in a few days and I find that maybe my elders really DO know some things they are talking about through sheer experience, and yet so many are living in a mental rut. Also, I look at younger people who haven't lived nearly as much yet think they know it all and HOPE that I am at an in between point where I have some experience, yet haven't become "stuck in my ways" yet.

Falla39
07-12-2009, 10:15 PM
Quoted byMiss Brattified:

IMO, you need to stop touting the fact that you are an elder woman as a prop for your views. Instead, support your views with scripture and clear reasoning. No one earns respect simply by aging. If that were the case, then a lot of ungodly older people would demand respect, based on age alone.

Please pardon my plain speaking--I'm not trying to be disrespectful. I like to base conversations around what the Word has to say, and I take the opinions of men--and women--with a grain of salt. God's Word should have the final say on everything, whether by principle or black and white verse.
__________________

I doubt your dear mother would have written the words to an elder that
you have written here when she was your age, as well as others that were
agreeing with you. I would be ashamed of any of our three daughters, ages
49, 40 and 35, if they spoke to an elder as you have spoken to me. They
would not do it. To me it is the "spirit of the age".

Now when your daughter gets your age and you get your mother's, or my
age, you may understand what I am saying.

Even at your age, I would never have spoken with the loftiness you have
spoken to me. We were taught to listen and learn. How long? Certainly until
we were mature enough to know how to respect our elders. We respected
our elders in the family and in the church, OR any elder, as long asd they
lived.

Paul told young Timothy in his first epistle to him, not rebuke an elder, but
entreat him as a father. The older women as mothers. the younger men as
brethren and the younger women as sisters, with all purity.1 Tim.5:1-

Miss Brattified, I pray you will receive this post in the spirit in which it is
written. It is not to offend but to help. I am not offended but I do see a
trend that COULD yield some sad reaping.

Hugs,

Falla39

freeatlast
07-13-2009, 05:53 AM
Dearest Sis Falla. None of the posts you refer to were rebukes. just wise council to you.

Do you feel that no minister can ever minister to someone who is older than themselves?

Our pastor is 36. Would not recieve councel from one so young?

Sherri
07-13-2009, 06:07 AM
To me, Elders are more from a spiritual perspective than from a chronological one. I highly respect Sis. Falla, but no more than I respect Miss Brattified. They are both my peers on this forum - I am in between them in age. I think they both have insights from time to time that I can learn from. But I don't think I should listen to one more than the other, just because of her age. JMHO

Aquila
07-13-2009, 06:17 AM
We've become like the Pharisees of Christ's day, teaching for commandments the doctrines (traditions) of men. God help us. And sadly, since men make the rules, women are left shouldering the burden of most of our man made doctrines.

freeatlast
07-13-2009, 06:21 AM
There is a man that is 78, Godly in his life, his elders taught him that those that believe, would take up serpents. In respect to his elders he teaches this doctrine also.

He is 78, much my senior, must I respect this man?

Am I not allowed to question or challenge him because he's older than I?

Falla39
07-13-2009, 06:33 AM
Bro. freeat last,
The scriptures in 1 Tim.5, is instructing younger how to treat. etc. elders,
men or women, younger men or women.

And as far as listening to a younger minister or person, period, I most certainly
feel I could receive counsel. Then again it would depend. All counsel, young or old,
is not necessarily WISE!

There is a lack of respect today for elders, for authority, children to parents,
etc.,etc, (and it didn't just start.)

God knows I have not written this to offend.

Falla39

Falla39
07-13-2009, 07:32 AM
To me, Elders are more from a spiritual perspective than from a chronological one. I highly respect Sis. Falla, but no more than I respect Miss Brattified. They are both my peers on this forum - I am in between them in age. I think they both have insights from time to time that I can learn from. But I don't think I should listen to one more than the other, just because of her age. JMHO

Sis. Sherri,

I agree that Paul was instructing young Timothy as how to treat the older
men and women in the church. And although we should not expect everyone
to always agree, there is never a place where we, as Christians, should be
rude or disrespectful to anyone. We can listen and learn and also be able to
disagree without being disagreeable. There is a time to speak and a time to
be silent. Eccles.3:

There was a reason Paul felt YOUNG Timothy could be useful in the ministry.
He referred to those who Timothy had learned from. Paul had seen the faith
that was in his grandmother Lois and in his mother, Eunice. He was persuaded
that it was in Timothy, because from a child he had been taught the holy script-
ures which were able to make one wise unto salvation, through faith which is
in Christ Jesus.

Gal.6:10 ESV So then, as we have opportunity, let us do good to everyone,
and especially to those who are of the household of faith.

God bless,

Falla39

*AQuietPlace*
07-13-2009, 07:57 AM
Sis. Falla, I don't think that anyone has been rude to you. On the contrary, most have tried very hard to not be. It's just that a discussion board is different. This is a place where thoughts and ideas are foremost, not our persons.

Here, our thoughts and our ideas must stand by themselves. A discussion board is a level playing field. This is why we can even have anonymous posters, and still have a successful board.... it's not who we are, but what we believe that makes a message board run.

There are many pastors here, but they don't insist that we not argue with them because they are pastors. There are other elders here.... Bro. Sam, Bro. Epley, and many others... they expect to be known by their thoughts and beliefs, not by their age or status in life.

I doubt there is anyone on this board who does not respect their elders. But on this board, we just want good, well-thought-out discussion. That stands on its own merit.

My own parents (who are your age) insisted upon respect, and every last one of us deeply respect them and would NEVER speak disrespectfully to them. But they don't use the 'I'm older than you so I know better' line. They don't mind good discussion, questions and yes - disagreement. Disagreement can be done respectfully. I tell my own children - 'I don't mind at all if you disagree with me, as long as you do so respectfully. I know you're not robots, and I don't want you to be'. I want my children to learn to think for themselves. I engage my children in good dialogue. "Because I said so" may very rarely have its place, but for the most part, I want my children to THINK. I don't want them to just accept my word. What if I'm wrong?? I'm human, I'm often wrong. My children have often been the ones to show me I was wrong.

We can all learn from each other. I respect my children and their ideas. Sometimes I'm stunned at how smart and intuitive they are. Younger people can often see things more clearly than those of us who have had our minds set a certain way for a long time.

Mutual respect... young for old, old for young. It works well. :)

Falla39
07-13-2009, 08:05 AM
There is a man that is 78, Godly in his life, his elders taught him that those that believe, would take up serpents. In respect to his elders he teaches this doctrine also.

He is 78, much my senior, must I respect this man?

Am I not allowed to question or challenge him because he's older than I?

Bro. freeatlast,

You may not agree but the spirit in which you "question or challenge" this
godly elder may be more important than you realize now! Remember you are
also going to grow older and what we sow, we WILL reap. Our children and
grandchildren listen to us and they are inheriting a spirit, good or bad, kind
or unkind. Regardless of whether we ever agree, we had better be sure of
some things. We WILL reap what we sow, good seed or bad. Our words are
seed, friend.

I personally have listened to the regrets of the younger after the elder had
passed on. The regrets because of words spoken unwisely because the
things they preceived as ignorance when the elder spoke them, had come
upon their own head, from their now grown children. They had passed that
spirit of arrogance to their own children who had listened as they spoke
unkindly to and of their elder.

Some women my age would never say or speak as I have spoken many times
on this and the forums that proceeded this one. But as a church "mother"
perhaps I can say what they "couldn't or wouldn't" say because of feeling
they were to be silent. In the beginning of setting the church in order, was
it possible that Paul wanted the women to be quite until he could give in-
structions. Jesus first instructed his 12 (men) chosen by him. After Jesus
ascended, He raised up Paul after Stephen had been killed. But after the
day of Pentecost, men and women were empowered by the Holy Ghost so
that both men and women, bond and free, jew or gentile, could come boldly
to the Father.

My late father was my teacher. He begot me by the gospel. Always pointing
to the Lord Jesus Christ. Never himself. It's all about JESUS! Now that Dad
has been gone to be with the LORD, I know how to look fully into the face of
Jesus, with nothing between! I learned back then to keep silent and listen to
the "sincere milk of the Word that I might grow thereby".

With love and respect for all,

Falla39

Aquila
07-13-2009, 08:42 AM
Timothy was stold to let no man dispise his youth. A young man who KNOWS what the Bible teaches, and walks in it, is far more anointed and in the will of the Lord than an older man whose faith is built largely on nothing but the traditions of his elders.

Aquila
07-13-2009, 08:44 AM
The Bible trumps all man made traditions. I may love many of my elders and think that they they're as sweet as sweet can be... but if they are not in the book they are not in the book.

commonsense
07-13-2009, 09:13 AM
On the llghter side, legalism at its finest.
An aquaintance attends a UPC church that commands hair be worn up as soon as you turn 12 yrs old. No exceptions.
They really enforce it and anyone who does not comply is an outcast.

Now those girls 12 to 18 often take this hairdo down as soon as they leave the church building and go outside. Apparently the requirement is for church service?

A young couple from this church get married.He obtains a college degree in a good field and they end up moving several states away.
They now attend a much larger UPC assembly. The are used in the church,ie music etc.

This is a church that has no hairstyle code. I've visited this church and they run over 1000 on Sun AM. You will see all ages of ladies with their long hair down.

A couple years later the young couple visit relatives and go to their old church. At the end of morning service their old pastor states, oh I'm sorry, Bro & Sis --------are visiting today. I didn't recognize her. (this in reference to her hair being worn down!) Normally they would have been invited to testify etc.

Falla39
07-13-2009, 09:44 AM
Timothy was stold to let no man dispise his youth. A young man who KNOWS what the Bible teaches, and walks in it, is far more anointed and in the will of the Lord than an older man whose faith is built largely on nothing but the traditions of his elders.

Yes, because Paul knew who had taught him the holy scriptures from
a child. A godly grandmother and mother. It was not his father. Paul
"fathered" or begot young Timothy by the gospel. He mentored Timothy
and Titus. Someone had to do it.

It was my late grandmother that first obeyed the gospel in our family.
But she taught my late father, her young son. Someone had to do it.
Our late father not only fathered us naturally., but he took his God given
responsibility seriously, getting his instruction from the WORD and from the
leading of the FATHER (Spirit). He built an "Ark" to the saving of his own
family. But many others have found refuge there also. The (ark.tent) has
had to be enlarged as many others have come on board.

Many times it is and has been the woman who first obeys and spiritually
mentors her children. When Dad first began the church we still worship in
today, it was mostly women. But today 50 yrs. later, we have many, many
good men that God has and is raising up to help set things in order. The
church, families and government have all been out of order for a long time.

GOD Will set things in order in HIS time. Good families, in God's order, make
for good homes, and places of refuge, (churches). We are God's building and
HE will place (if we yield as clay in the Potter's Hands) us where we are to
be, in HIS PLAN. THE Word is HIS PLAN and example for mankind. His Spirit
will lead and guide us into HIS Plan being accomplished.

Falla39

Falla39
07-13-2009, 09:52 AM
Quoted by Falla39:
After I married and especially after I began to have my children, I started wearing my
hair up. Not because anyone told me I SHOULD. With small children underfoot, I person-
ally felt it would be a "worry or nuience" to have my hair "in my face, etc." This is not
in anyway, to speak against a woman that feels otherwise. This is MY personal story,
fifty yrs, after the fact.

Never was I told or taught, to wear my hair up or down.

I made some comments as to why I wore my hair up, as a young mother and
wife. I also made the following statement:

"This is not in anyway, to speak against a woman that feels otherwise.
This is MY personal story, fifty yrs, after the fact".

I never heard of the "magic hair" term until I heard it on AFF.

Falla

Rhoni
07-13-2009, 10:03 AM
Hair up or down, cut or uncut is truly a non-issue.

Blessings, Rhoni

Sister Alvear
07-13-2009, 10:05 AM
I would feel terrible with my hair down because i have wore it up so many years....however there is no biblical mandate to wear it up or down in my understanding.
Lots of things we have no biblical mandate but some things we prefere...

Rhoni
07-13-2009, 10:14 AM
The first time I wore mine down in most of my adolesence was on Saturdays at Bible Colege on campus. It was required to wear it up off campus.

At the church I grew up in I was not allowed to wear it down because I taught Sunday school when I was 14-15 years old. I remember wearing it down on a Wednesday night coming from work late [it was that or miss church] and I was called into the Pastor's office and asked..."Are you trying to look sexy?" LOL. I didn't know what sexy was and had not even started my menstral cycle. Ahhh...so glad to be free from all that legalism.

Blessings, Rhoni

Aquila
07-13-2009, 10:29 AM
Yes, because Paul knew who had taught him the holy scriptures from a child. A godly grandmother and mother.

Falla, you make my point so well... you see Timothy was taught the HOLY SCRIPTURES from a child. Not traditions of men. If women were required to wear their hair up... the Scriptures would plainly say so. But the Scriptures do not say so and that is why we have saints groaning under this kind of spiritual oppression.

Not everything our great grandpappy taught us is Scripture. We're living in a different generation now Falla. I had a business management and communication class just last year. In it we discussed cross generational communication with previous generations in comparison with generation x and y communication. Your generation values simple obedience. You were essentially taught never to ask questions and admonished to do what you were told. This was a prized value by your generation. You’ll find that older folks never asked, “Why do black people have to ride in the back of the bus?” It was generally accepted that this is “just the way it is” and asking why or challenging the notion was considered revolutionary. Generation X and Y are interesting. They are the most plugged in generation we’ve had. They have a plethora of information that previous generations never had at their fingertips. They can access international libraries over the internet via cell phone. If they want to verify history… it’s at the push of a button. Generations X and Y have different values when it comes to communication. Generations X and Y value knowing “why” they are doing something. If they don’t know or can’t understand “why” they feel like something amiss. They are looking to find fulfillment in what they do. They are looking to know that they are not being lied to or mislead. This is the result of so many different voices, options, views, and all the history of cults and abuse, etc. They are very astute and perhaps the most intelligent generations we’ve had to date. So when a supervisor or business manager asks someone from your generation to do something, they often do it without asking a question. But if a business manager asks generation X or Y to do something the first thing they will hear is, “Why?” Many uninformed supervisors or business managers misinterpret this as being rebellious, undisciplined etc. And when they reprimand or try to tell the generation X or Y person not to ask so many questions, they offend them and only generate the very rebellious behavior they feel they’re trying to stop. Instead, a good leader will realize that this is generation X or Y. They aren’t being undisciplined or rebellious. They are fiercely loyal and all they need is to KNOW that they KNOW and that requires that they ask “why”.

Let’s translate this to church. So when the elders tell the church that a woman must wear her hair uncut and up, guess what… you’re generation just says, “Praise God, that’s the man of God and that’s what I’ll do. No questions.” Generations X and Y say, “Why? Is that Scripture? What’s the purpose? Are you telling us the truth? Give us solid Scripture because we want to KNOW that we are walking in the ways of the LORD.”

Now… here’s where it gets ugly. If what you said was merely a “tradition” started by great grandpappy, you’re generation will have no problem with it. Don’t rock the boat. Just be obedient. Things will sort themselves out. Don’t sweat the small stuff. Etc. But if the generation X or Y discovers that it’s just a “tradition” and isn’t explicitly found in Scripture… it can rock their faith. Especially if the church claims to only teach Bible. They feel that they’ve discovered dishonesty. They feel betrayed. And now they’ll dig at everything to find out exactly what is or isn’t Scripture. That’s what you’re seeing here. Our generation is boiling away the tradition and dross of previous generations to find the truth. That’s all we want. All we want is the truth. Don’t tell us that a woman has to wear her hair up all the time if that’s not in Scripture. Don’t tell us she’ll go to Hell if she cuts her hair if that’s not in Scripture. Don’t tell us a man will go to Hell for facial hair if that’s not in Scripture. Don’t tell us a woman will go to Hell if a she wears pant if that’s not in Scripture. Don’t tell us a man can’t wear shorts if that’s not in Scripture. Don’t tell us anything accept the WORD. We love and want the WORD.

I was a preacher. I used to preach things that my pastor taught us because it was what I was expected to do. I was teaching people that they’d go to Hell for owning a television or wearing wedding bands, etc. It’s what my elders taught me. But I couldn’t deny my inner values. Was what I was teaching Scripture? I didn’t ask this because I didn’t want to teach it. I asked it because I wanted to know that what I taught the people was true. The deeper I studied things the more I realized that 80% of everything we did was merely traditions and personal interpretations of men. From magic hair on women to no facial hair on men. It was all just a man’s opinion and tradition with no Bible behind it. I said to myself, “Just teach what the elders taught you out of respect for the pulpit.” But that began to keep me up at night. My heart would say, “What about honesty in the pulpit?” By perpetrating error, I’m dishonoring the pulpit and the Word of God. So I began to voice my questions about some traditions we held. I was immediately black listed and an outcast among the ministry team. Eventually my wife and I had to go to another church. Trying to be true and honest cost me dearly. It cost me a ministry, friends, family (some of my own family won’t talk with me accept briefly). Taking a stand for truth in a church where traditions of men rule the day will leave you in exile.

So Falla, try to understand the generation you’re talking to. Try to understand that we are not being disrespectful. We’re only trying to be true. We have to be. We can’t just teach something because it’s what was taught to us. We have to know there’s book for it.

In closing. We are now returning to the subject of this thread. The whole uncut and hair up requirement business is just another tradition of man. It’s not in the Bible. Some have twisted what the Bible says to justify a tradition. But once the language and culture of the text is properly understood… the truth is glaring. Women are not required to have uncut hair, nor are they required to wear their hair up. Let’s teach the Bible… not human traditions. Let’s start obeying the Lord and stop obeying traditions. Let’s truly move into worshipping the Lord instead of worshipping our worship. Let’s cherish who we are in Him instead of who we are because of the traditions we hold.

We claim the name Aposotlic. Let’s be Apostle-like.

commonsense
07-13-2009, 10:32 AM
ABI did not require that the ladies wear hair up for class or church services.

But in a class once, wearing hair down was referred to as bedroom hair.:ursofunny

Timmy
07-13-2009, 11:09 AM
OK, suppose half the people in a room are offended by hair worn up, and the other half are offended by hair worn down. How's a lady going to follow the principle of Romans 14:21 (See also http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=25034)? Half up, half down? Hmmm no, that would offend everyone! :heeheehee

Falla39
07-13-2009, 11:18 AM
In all due respect for each of you that has responded, and please do not take
this in a wrong way.
No one is in anyway obligated to listen/or pay attention to one word I have written.
I didn't have to say anything.
We've raised our children the best we could. In the fear and admonition of the LORD.
In that area, our work's done.

Blessings and Hugs,

Falla39

Rhoni
07-13-2009, 11:35 AM
In all due respect for each of you that has responded, and please do not take
this in a wrong way.
No one is in anyway obligated to listen/or pay attention to one word I have written.
I didn't have to say anything.
We've raised our children the best we could. In the fear and admonition of the LORD.
In that area, our work's done.

Blessings and Hugs,

Falla39

And done well I might add. You have nothing to be ashamed of...your children are wonderful examples of Godly men and women!

Love you much, Rhoni

Scott Hutchinson
07-13-2009, 11:40 AM
All of this fuss over hair,well at least alot of you have some hair to work with,I only have one choice of hairstyle.

RandyWayne
07-13-2009, 11:45 AM
OK, suppose half the people in a room are offended by hair worn up, and the other half are offended by hair worn down. How's a lady going to follow the principle of Romans 14:21 (See also http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=25034)? Half up, half down? Hmmm no, that would offend everyone! :heeheehee

Probably should just rip it out and cast it into the sea so NO one of offended.

Falla39
07-13-2009, 11:54 AM
Probably should just rip it out and cast it into the sea so NO one of offended.

LOL!!! RandyWayne!:ursofunny

The thing is, we each can do as we please. As adults, we have that choice.
If we have sought to please God, everything should be okay!

Falla39

KWSS1976
07-13-2009, 11:56 AM
Don't forget the scripture Randy about the Thief on the cross it probley need to go with the others to...LOL