Relevant... To Who?

[GrowingPains]

Some relevance preachers (allow me the freedom to use generalizations here) seem to appeal more to youth and twenty-somethings/young marrieds.

Being relevant is all about serving our cities, not keeping the Gospel stored up high, but taking it to them, where they are. However, I was thinking: do some of these churches skip out on middle-aged couples and elderly people? Hippy shagged hair and ripped jeans may not match what a 50-year CEO is looking for. Shouldn't there be a happy medium here? Some are going extremely edgy, but edging toward the youth and seem to be forgetting the older people among us. Thoughts?

[Michael The Disciple]

Some relevance preachers (allow me the freedom to use generalizations here) seem to appeal more to youth and twenty-somethings/young marrieds.

Being relevant is all about serving our cities, not keeping the Gospel stored up high, but taking it to them, where they are. However, I was thinking: do some of these churches skip out on middle-aged couples and elderly people? Hippy shagged hair and ripped jeans may not match what a 50-year CEO is looking for. Shouldn't there be a happy medium here? Some are going extremely edgy, but edging toward the youth and seem to be forgetting the older people among us. Thoughts?

Most elderly people have already rejected Christ. Sure once in a blue moon one will be saved but I say go for the youth. You will be wasting a lot of time if you dont.

[GrowingPains]

Most elderly people have already rejected Christ. Sure once in a blue moon one will be saved but I say go for the youth. You will be wasting a lot of time if you dont.

Wow, Michael. That's an awful generalization. Keep in mind, I wasn't referring to just 80-year old grandmas. I'm talking about 40, 50 and 60-year olds, sometimes the anchor of churches. Do you just leave these folks behind and conform and morph into a teenager?

[U376977]

Jesus was always "relevant" He crossed cultures and races. When his love is expressed it will touch hearts, no matter the age. There is room for all at the cross. 18 yr olds will enjoy hearing Amazing Grace, and the older folks should not object to "whisper his name." The key is having his love in manifestion. The method whether it be lights, music, an outreach all becomes secondary to the sincere seekers.

[Michael The Disciple]

Wow, Michael. That's an awful generalization. Keep in mind, I wasn't referring to just 80-year old grandmas. I'm talking about 40, 50 and 60-year olds, sometimes the anchor of churches. Do you just leave these folks behind and conform and morph into a teenager?



I do not leave them. At least in America many and I could say nearly all of them have heard of Christ. Tho a generalization it is true. I will witness to anyone. But I have seen much more interest from the young than the old.

I started street witnessing in 1975. Not many elderly people are seeking God that have not already found him. They will wait till they are on their death bed and (generalization) pray the "sinners prayer".

Sure witness to the old if one is in front of you. But if there is a young sinner and an old one in front of you and you have no specific leading which one to witness to choose the young one. Maybe he has not heard.

[GrowingPains]

I do not leave them. At least in America many and I could say nearly all of them have heard of Christ. Tho a generalization it is true. I will witness to anyone. But I have seen much more interest from the young than the old.

I started street witnessing in 1975. Not many elderly people are seeking God that have not already found him. They will wait till they are on their death bed and (generalization) pray the "sinners prayer".

Sure witness to the old if one is in front of you. But if there is a young sinner and an old one in front of you and you have no specific leading which one to witness to choose the young one. Maybe he has not heard.

Extremely anectdotal, but it's an axiom that older people are more set in their ways. That said, what about those in the church now? Shouldn't the church be a place for all people?

I like what the previous poster said, and it's so true. If the goal is love and the gospel, it will bleed out in the methods. Some change the methods, but never consider the core catalyst of it all, so their methods don't work either. Well said.

[Michael The Disciple]

Extremely anectdotal, but it's an axiom that older people are more set in their ways. That said, what about those in the church now? Shouldn't the church be a place for all people?

I like what the previous poster said, and it's so true. If the goal is love and the gospel, it will bleed out in the methods. Some change the methods, but never consider the core catalyst of it all, so their methods don't work either. Well said.

Im just pointing out to you that the huge majority of people that are saved now got saved before they got old. I read that statistic a long way back. And as I said a great majority of them have heard of Christ and never submitted to him.

Of course the Church is for all people. But if they wont come they wont come. I witness to anyone whos attention I get long enough to do so. The young in my own experience are more interested.

As far as a "relevant" Church goes if we build it according to the doctrine of the Apostles it will be relevant to YHWH. If not he wont regard it.

[GrowingPains]

Im just pointing out to you that the huge majority of people that are saved now got saved before they got old. I read that statistic a long way back. And as I said a great majority of them have heard of Christ and never submitted to him.

Of course the Church is for all people. But if they wont come they wont come. I witness to anyone whos attention I get long enough to do so. The young in my own experience are more interested.

As far as a "relevant" Church goes if we build it according to the doctrine of the Apostles it will be relevant to YHWH. If not he wont regard it.

I think that's where I was going with it. We should be relevant, and the irony is some are radically exluding others in their methods, instead of being a church for all people, and all families. If we want to truly be relevant, we have to be a bridge. Casual style, contemporary choruses, pop-culturized messages, all good stuff. But in all that, remember those that aren't the age of these men who are trying to "relate" with people their age, but people that are older than them, no matter how much statistics show they are less likely to receive the Gospel. I wonder what the Apostles did when there weren't such statistics, polls and business-related marketing studies :thumbsup

The final analysis is what you concluded with, and I agree.

[Aquila]

Why criticize a minister who's called to reach a certain demographic? God may be trying to reach young marrieds and young adults as never before. In addition most churches have childrens ministry and most older saints have visitations... statistics show that the loneliest and most under ministered to group of people are young adults and young marrieds who are between the ages of 25 and 35. Most families that fall away fall away in this period because they are facing the stress of starting families or living on their own for the first time. Most have marital issues and questions that are rarely addressed. Most marriages have a tough time weathering this period too. I think it's wise to zero in on this demographic. I remember telling my wife... kids have Sunday School, the youth have youth group, and the elderly saints have "morning Bible Study" and since they are retired - they meet and pray at the church often. But what about us? We both work and are struggling to stay above water financially. We're trying to raise kids. We're serving the church in Sunday School, choir, outreach, and youth group. We have no time for each other. It's like we don't even know each other any more. And we don't have time to get to know each other any more. It's tough. The Pastor of a church we served recently launched a "Young Marrieds" group that met on every other Wednesday. Subjects were as varied, dealing with wrecked finances, communication, how to deal with anger, how to deal with disappointment, and how to keep romance and passion alive. It was wonderful. More churches need to focus in on college age young adults and young marrieds.

[GrowingPains]

Why criticize a minister who's called to reach a certain demographic? God may be trying to reach young marrieds and young adults as never before. In addition most churches have childrens ministry and most older saints have visitations... statistics show that the loneliest and most under ministered to group of people are young adults and young marrieds who are between the ages of 25 and 35. Most families that fall away fall away in this period because they are facing the stress of starting families or living on their own for the first time. Most have marital issues and questions that are rarely addressed. Most marriages have a tough time weathering this period too. I think it's wise to zero in on this demographic. I remember telling my wife... kids have Sunday School, the youth have youth group, and the elderly saints have "morning Bible Study" and since they are retired - they meet and pray at the church often. But what about us? We both work and are struggling to stay above water financially. We're trying to raise kids. We're serving the church in Sunday School, choir, outreach, and youth group. We have no time for each other. It's like we don't even know each other any more. And we don't have time to get to know each other any more. It's tough. The Pastor of a church we served recently launched a "Young Marrieds" group that met on every other Wednesday. Subjects were as varied, dealing with wrecked finances, communication, how to deal with anger, how to deal with disappointment, and how to keep romance and passion alive. It was wonderful. More churches need to focus in on college age young adults and young marrieds.

My intent wasn't to criticize anyone in particular... and it most certainly wasn't bashing someone who has a passion for young marrieds and single twenty-somethings. If that's what I conveyed, forgive.

My point is if the the church in general is marketed, geared and branded to 20-year olds, but say they are a church for everyone, that doesn't make sense. The format, style of the church should be palatable for all of them. If, however, you are just seeking to reach college students, then that would make sense.

[Michael The Disciple]

My intent wasn't to criticize anyone in particular... and it most certainly wasn't bashing someone who has a passion for young marrieds and single twenty-somethings. If that's what I conveyed, forgive.

My point is if the the church in general is marketed, geared and branded to 20-year olds, but say they are a church for everyone, that doesn't make sense. The format, style of the church should be palatable for all of them. If, however, you are just seeking to reach college students, then that would make sense.

However this works both ways. Young people may not be able to take suits and ties and the old hymns.

[GrowingPains]

However this works both ways. Young people may not be able to take suits and ties and the old hymns.

True. But we acknowledge both. There is a way to worship together.

I am asking myself a lot lately: what would the early church do? To sound copycat, what would Jesus do? Changes a lot of what I'd consider doing.

[Aquila]

I think it's part of a systemic problem. You see, when a church meets today it's geared toward a "what can church do for me" kind of attitude. In NT times the church met in small groups in homes and shared the Word of God with everyone contributing. Every member had a part, they came with something to give. Young people came with questions and a hunger to learn more. Perhaps the younger folks brought song and praise. Older more seasoned saints came with their wisdom, experience, and Scriptural understanding. Everyone aimed to edify the group as a whole. Today we expect one man, a Pastor, to deliver something that will appeal across the board. The price is that preachers have to resort to more vague generalities in spiritual principles in the hopes that each member can "get it" at their level. This sacrifices the deep and personalized teaching found in the churches of the New Testament. Today people expect a single church to find a way to gather resources for various programs or efforts to meet the needs of children, youth, college & career, singles, young marrieds, young ministers, drug addicts, alcoholics, etc. Today all expect the church to provide music, praise, and worship that accommodates all age groups and appeals to all tastes. All of this is far too much for one church or one man to bare. This is why so many pastors are suffering from burnout. This isn't the way church is supposed to be. Instead of going to church to "get" we should be coming to church to "give". And this is best done in smaller groups geared toward New Testament body ministry.


I Corinthians 14:26-33 (NIV)
26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.

[GrowingPains]

I think it's part of a systemic problem. You see, when a church meets today it's geared toward a "what can church do for me" kind of attitude. In NT times the church met in small groups in homes and shared the Word of God with everyone contributing. Every member had a part, they came with something to give. Young people came with questions and a hunger to learn more. Perhaps the younger folks brought song and praise. Older more seasoned saints came with their wisdom, experience, and Scriptural understanding. Everyone aimed to edify the group as a whole. Today we expect one man, a Pastor, to deliver something that will appeal across the board. The price is that preachers have to resort to more vague generalities in spiritual principles in the hopes that each member can "get it" at their level. This sacrifices the deep and personalized teaching found in the churches of the New Testament. Today people expect a single church to find a way to gather resources for various programs or efforts to meet the needs of children, youth, college & career, singles, young marrieds, young ministers, drug addicts, alcoholics, etc. Today all expect the church to provide music, praise, and worship that accommodates all age groups and appeals to all tastes. All of this is far too much for one church or one man to bare. This is why so many pastors are suffering from burnout. This isn't the way church is supposed to be. Instead of going to church to "get" we should be coming to church to "give". And this is best done in smaller groups geared toward New Testament body ministry.


I Corinthians 14:26-33 (NIV)
26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, everyone has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. All of these must be done for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.

29Two or three prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.

For all my questions with how we historicize the NT Pastor, I still stand and applaud this post. What a picture! Idealism or pragmatic Christianity? In the NT we know the Apostles dropped in on many of these house worship gatherings. Aquila, I asked a question concerning house churches in another post just before this one.