The Fence

[noeticknight]

I have heard “the fence” analogy used quite often when ministers or saints advocate that this represents church standards such as relate to appearance, dress, entertainment, and so on. Hasn’t the fence and the gate already been established (John 10)?
In these passages of scripture, the watchman’s duty is to open the gate and let the sheep in and out. From this I conclude that the feeding takes place outside of the fence. So the question that I present is this: Who constructed your sheep pen? Are you being led by the Good Shepherd into the light of day, green pastures, and still waters?

[Jeffrey]

I have heard “the fence” analogy used quite often when ministers or saints advocate that this represents church standards such as relate to appearance, dress, entertainment, and so on. Hasn’t the fence and the gate already been established (John 10)?
In these passages of scripture, the watchman’s duty is to open the gate and let the sheep in and out. From this I conclude that the feeding takes place outside of the fence. So the question that I present is this: Who constructed your sheep pen? Are you being led by the Good Shepherd into the light of day, green pastures, and still waters?

The fences, also called Sayag was what the Pharisees used to protect God's laws. The question points back: was God against the Sayag, over the over-zealous obsession -- or was it hypocrisy? Was he against the sayag to any extent?

Taking the timeless to the present... the demands of faith communities.

[jayb]

i guess my only question then would be why are you feeding outside the fence (in the world)the master has plenty for all w/o having to partake of the world and the things it has to offer .Personally I have become disgusted with the church evolving into the world, I am so ready to see that go the other way and see souls added daily.:thumbsup

[noeticknight]

The fences, also called Sayag was what the Pharisees used to protect God's laws. The question points back: was God against the Sayag, over the over-zealous obsession -- or was it hypocrisy? Was he against the sayag to any extent?

Taking the timeless to the present... the demands of faith communities.

You're right, Jesus was addressing the Jews in John 10. He spoke of bringing in the "other sheep," or gentiles, into the sheepfold. They would know salvation through him, the door to the sheepfold. Of course, Jesus did not abolish the Law, but fulfilled it in the NT, which could be represented by his connection as the door or the gate at the head of the sheepfold (fence).

To me, his leading the sheep in and out of the sheepfold represented his divine authority and sovereignty. By stating that "the sabbath (law) was for man and not man for the sabbath (law)", Jesus was declaring that the religious leaders had lost the original meaning of the Law. The fences that they had built were hindering people from God. If anything, the Pharisees must have seen Jesus as an enemy of their carefully built "fences" around the fold.

Back to my original comments, perhaps that is the lesson here. Before nailing up that additional barbed-wire, maybe it would be wise to consider first the ramifications of our actions. Are we effectively keeping people away, or are we teaching them to be led by the Master?

[Nitehawk013]

Are you arguing that since so many men in power within the church have used "standards" in an abusive and over zealous way that they should now be thorwn out altogether?

Yeah, the pharisees were wrong. They forgot the spirit of the law. Many men today scream about hair and skirt length and condemn everyone to hell. They too have forgotten the spirit of the law. Shame on them.

Would you rather have the oppoaite end of the spectrum that I see growing in the church? The everything goes, no rules, no seperation from the world mentality?

I got saved form the world. I don't want to go back to that trash. You seem to make the mistake of thinking that rules are keeping people away form the church. I say NO! Rules aren't keeping people away.

No matter how rediculously strict your church may be, the rules won't keep people away. The lack of a true encounter with the Almighty will. You can be the strictest preacher on the block, but if you get a sinner to really meet Jesus that sinner will recognize Him as the thing they were missing in their heart their entire life. Then no rules will be so "legalistic" that they will run away.

They will understand liek the disciples that there is no where else to go.

[noeticknight]

Are you arguing that since so many men in power within the church have used "standards" in an abusive and over zealous way that they should now be thorwn out altogether?

Yeah, the pharisees were wrong. They forgot the spirit of the law. Many men today scream about hair and skirt length and condemn everyone to hell. They too have forgotten the spirit of the law. Shame on them.

Would you rather have the oppoaite end of the spectrum that I see growing in the church? The everything goes, no rules, no seperation from the world mentality?

I got saved form the world. I don't want to go back to that trash. You seem to make the mistake of thinking that rules are keeping people away form the church. I say NO! Rules aren't keeping people away.
No matter how rediculously strict your church may be, the rules won't keep people away. The lack of a true encounter with the Almighty will. You can be the strictest preacher on the block, but if you get a sinner to really meet Jesus that sinner will recognize Him as the thing they were missing in their heart their entire life. Then no rules will be so "legalistic" that they will run away.

They will understand liek the disciples that there is no where else to go.

You obviously haven't read my previous posts on standards and such.

http://www.apostolicfriendsforum.com/showthread.php?t=26282&page=2

As far as "rules" keeping people away from church? I'm not sure if you're serious here. I mean, do you really think ministers can concoct and twist any old interpretation of scriptures together to form doctrines and not be held accountable? Are you saying that zeal trumps truth?