Email recvd Muslim vs Christianity

[Krt]

This is true? Wow. I think this man really used wisdom....

Checked out to be true according to Truth or Fiction

This is a true story and the author, Rick Mathes, is a well-known leader in prison ministry. The man who walks with God always gets to his destination. If you have a pulse you have a purpose.

The Muslim religion is the fastest growing religion per capita in the United States, especially in the minority races!

Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers representing the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths, who explained each of their beliefs..

I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam, complete with a video.

After the presentations, time was provided for questions and answers.

When it was my turn, I directed my question to the Imam and asked: 'Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that most Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world and, that by killing an infidel, (which is a command to all Muslims) they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel?'

There was no disagreement with my statements and, without hesitation, he replied, 'Non-believers!'

I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?'

The expression on his face changed from one of authority and command to that of a little boy who had just been caught with his hand in the cookie jar.'

He sheepishly replied, 'Yes.'

I then stated, 'Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine the Pope commanding all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Dr.Charles Stanley ordering all protestants to do the same in order to guarantee them a place in heaven!'

The Imam was speechless!

I continued, 'I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me!

'Let me ask you a question: Would you rather have your Allah, who tells you to kill me in order for you to go to heaven, or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to heaven and He wants you to be there with me?'

You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Needless to say, the organizers and/or promoters of the Diversification training seminar were not happy with my way of dealing with the Islamic Imam, and exposing the truth about the Muslims' beliefs.

In twenty years there will be enough Muslim voters in the U.S. to elect the President!

I think everyone in the U..S. should be required to read this, but with ACLU, there is no way this will be widely publicized, unless each of us send it on! This is your chance to make a difference...

[Walks_in_islam]

Knowing this to be contrary to the principles of Islam AND knowing that a well-groomed, educated, well-heeled christian minister could (probably) not resist making a dig at someone of another faith (especially someone who as it turns out is a locked up inmate who is helpless to answer anyway and was simply practicing his faith) I did some further research on this. Not to my surprise this is what I found:

Third-party accounts of the events in question paint a significantly different picture than the one offered by Mathes. (I am stunned - not) Tim Kniest, spokesman for the Missouri Department of Corrections, told the Lee news service that the training session in question was for prison volunteers and took place in a corrections facility in Fulton, MO. However, according to Kniest, prison officials' recollection of events that day differ from Mathes' in several aspects:

"Religious leaders representing faiths followed by current inmates were invited to present.
The presenter on Islam was not an Imam, but rather a Muslim inmate who was pressed into presenting after no Imam could be arranged.
Prison officials confirm that the Muslim inmate was asked a few questions that he was unable to answer, but none along the lines of those suggested by Mr. Mathes."

That's code for he was singled out, identified to be helpless, and browbeaten by a christian minister for no reason, and then chose to not answer. Kudos for that.

Mathes, however, maintains that his is an accurate account, using the facts he knew at the time, and did go into some more detail making the encounter seem less antagonistic than his original account (this is known as caught and in the South, the "crawfish maneuver".) Happens on this forum a LOT. "Facts he knew at the time"? Get real....

I wonder why independent witnesses, with no love for Islam, would paint this picture in a different way. If the Matthes version does not match the version of independent witnesses, what does that say about this "minister of christianity?"

Sez Matthes while doing spin control:

"I really asked the questions I needed to know the answers to and he did not respond as I thought he would have. I expected him to defend this "jihad" thing as rebel Muslims using religion to cloak their evil deed in."

Stealing a line from SNL "Really?" You "expected" what? He responded how? "Really"?

This email is an example of what again?

Want to browbeat a helpless Muslim? Here's your chance sport.

Wii

[mizpeh]

I don't care whether the account is true or false, my concern is whether this statement is true or false:

"I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?' "

[John Atkinson]

I don't care whether the account is true or false, my concern is whether this statement is true or false:

"I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?' "

The statement is false. I spent 5 years in an Islamic country and I am still kicking, nobody tried to kill me and a lot of them did the opposite, became my friends.

Though I did get a couple of tomatoes thrown at me, but then my country was supplying their enemy with bombs and bullets. I would have thrown vegetables at me too.

[Walks_in_islam]

That statement is without question false. Islam teaches no such thing.


I don't care whether the account is true or false, my concern is whether this statement is true or false:

"I responded, 'So, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can have a place in heaven. Is that correct?' "

[Baron1710]

What is that young ladies name that has run to Florida because she is afraid of honor killing?

So is it commanded to kill those who stray from the muslim faith?

[Walks_in_islam]

Islam does not teach "honor killings" either. No more than christianity teaches sunday school teachers to kill young girls and stuff them in suitcases.

[Baron1710]

Islam does not teach "honor killings" either. No more than christianity teaches sunday school teachers to kill young girls and stuff them in suitcases.

Which happens more often?

And when did anyone ever claim that the Bible does teach such a thing?

Are you saying people who convert from Islam in muslim contries are not in danger?

[Nitehawk013]

Yeah, Islam is just misunderstood.

Right.

[Baron1710]

Seventeen year-old Rifqa’s interview is heartbreaking. She knows that if a Muslim leaves Islam, converts to another religion, is an “apostate,” that they are supposed to be killed by any other Muslim; this includes members of her own family.
http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/2009/08/13/an-honor-killing-averted-muslim-convert-to-christianity-flees-for-her-life/

Wonder how she got so confused? She must not know what the muslim faith teaches.

[Baron1710]

On February 12, 2009, Muzzammil Hassan informed police that he had beheaded his wife. Hassan had emigrated to the United States 30 years ago and, after a successful banking career, had founded Bridges TV, a Muslim-interest network which aims, according to its website, "to foster a greater understanding among many cultures and diverse populations." Erie County District Attorney Frank A. Sedita III told The Buffalo News that "this is the worst form of domestic violence possible," and Khalid Qazi, president of the Muslim Public Affairs Council of Western New York, told the New York Post that Islam forbids such domestic violence. While Muslim advocacy organizations argue that honor killings are a misnomer stigmatizing Muslims for what is simply domestic violence, a problem that has nothing to do with religion, Phyllis Chesler, who just completed a study of more than 50 instances of North American honor killings, says the evidence suggests otherwise.

http://www.meforum.org/2067/are-honor-killings-simply-domestic-violence

[Baron1710]

So-called "honour" killings take the lives of thousands of young women every year, mainly in Western Asia, North Africa and parts of South Asia. At least 1,000 women were murdered in Pakistan in 1999.
http://www.unfpa.org/swp/2000/english/ch03.html

Isolated incidents?

[Baron1710]

Aamir Latif, a correspondent for the Islamist website Islam Online who writes frequently on the issue, reported that in 2007 in the Punjab province of Pakistan alone, there were 1,261 honor murders.

IslamOnline.net, Jan. 11, 2007.

[Nitehawk013]

I got the movie Obsession in the mail. That, along with seeing children barely old enough to speak saying Jews are "dogs" and should be killed, is all I need to know about the "religion of peace" that is Islam.

[Walks_in_islam]

It is a sad case. It is also more about culture and less about religion.

I made a flippant analogy between christians who do wrong things and muslims who do wrong things.

Churches practice freely in some muslim countries and are not allowed to practice at all in others. In some countries it is dangerous to be Muslim and in some countries it is dangerous to be christian.

As to what happens when - Christian ministers are caught with their pants down more often than young girls experience honor killings. The bible teaches that adulterers or witches or blasphemers are to be put to death. In the hands of literal interpretation this can be and has been used as an excuse or pretext for killing. aka "heresy". When either Islam or christianity is applied that way both are wrong. The bible teaches mercy and forgiveness. As does that Quran. The Quran mentions mercy more than it mentions penalty.

Those who have no mercy will show no mercy. Religion is an un-needed reason to become what one really is. Religion has been used as excuse and justification to kill both christians and muslims. Application of the actions to the few to the entire faith is wrong. On both sides.

Which happens more often?

And when did anyone ever claim that the Bible does teach such a thing?

Are you saying people who convert from Islam in muslim contries are not in danger?

[Walks_in_islam]

It is good to know that you wisely base your decisions from the movies. Hitler used propaganda too and it worked just as well.

I got the movie Obsession in the mail. That, along with seeing children barely old enough to speak saying Jews are "dogs" and should be killed, is all I need to know about the "religion of peace" that is Islam.

[Walks_in_islam]

At the same time in the US there were 10,000 murders for various reasons. Where is the outrage?

Aamir Latif, a correspondent for the Islamist website Islam Online who writes frequently on the issue, reported that in 2007 in the Punjab province of Pakistan alone, there were 1,261 honor murders.

IslamOnline.net, Jan. 11, 2007.

[Walks_in_islam]

Nobody denies that there are honor killings. That they happen do not happen to make them right.

On February 12, 2009, Muzzammil Hassan informed police that he had beheaded his wife. Hassan had emigrated to the United States 30 years ago and, after a successful banking career, had founded Bridges TV, a Muslim-interest network which aims, according to its website, "to foster a greater understanding among many cultures and diverse populations." Erie County District Attorney Frank A. Sedita III told The Buffalo News that "this is the worst form of domestic violence possible," and Khalid Qazi, president of the Muslim Public Affairs Council of Western New York, told the New York Post that Islam forbids such domestic violence. While Muslim advocacy organizations argue that honor killings are a misnomer stigmatizing Muslims for what is simply domestic violence, a problem that has nothing to do with religion, Phyllis Chesler, who just completed a study of more than 50 instances of North American honor killings, says the evidence suggests otherwise.

http://www.meforum.org/2067/are-honor-killings-simply-domestic-violence

[Baron1710]

At the same time in the US there were 10,000 murders for various reasons. Where is the outrage?

In ordinary domestic violence involving Westerners, it is rare for brothers to kill sisters or for male cousins to kill female cousins. And while child abuse occurs in which fathers may kill infants and children, it is very rare for Western fathers to kill teenage daughters.
http://www.meforum.org/2067/are-honor-killings-simply-domestic-violence#_ftn17

This is a sick fact, Muslims kill in the name of Allah their own flesh and blood.

Not quit the same as someone who kills for their own selfish gain or anger. Those numbers represent honor killings, not all murders in those countries.

[Baron1710]

Nobody denies that there are honor killings. That they happen do not happen to make them right.

Why is that such a prominate part of the muslim community?

[Walks_in_islam]

Murder is murder no matter what the motive. We are not talking about westerners. We are talking about a different, albeit wrong, issue from another culture. You are really going to sit in front of that pc and sell to me that honor killings are not about uncontrolled anger? Otherwise random murder, as I have noticed, is rare in these countries. You are free to justify or otherwise minimize the issue of violence in your own backyard all you want. The crime statistics are public record. Most murders in your backyard are family on family. For a different reason but equally as wrong. Have you read your own domestic violence statistics? LOL

In ordinary domestic violence involving Westerners, it is rare for brothers to kill sisters or for male cousins to kill female cousins. And while child abuse occurs in which fathers may kill infants and children, it is very rare for Western fathers to kill teenage daughters.
http://www.meforum.org/2067/are-honor-killings-simply-domestic-violence#_ftn17

This is a sick fact, Muslims kill in the name of Allah their own flesh and blood.

Not quit the same as someone who kills for their own selfish gain or anger. Those numbers represent honor killings, not all murders in those countries.

[Walks_in_islam]

I live in the Muslim community. I live in Saudi. I also lived in Indonesia and got married there. I was part of the Muslim community in the US. I have never even (personally) HEARD of (short of the same articles you read) an honor killing either here or there. I shake my head in disgust just like you do when I do read about one. I know that it happens. I also know from experience that it is not prominant as it is made out to be in the media. I do not resent at all the condemnation of it. I do not believe it to be right to apply this to the practice of the Muslim faith.

Why is that such a prominate part of the muslim community?

[Walks_in_islam]

Did you get the impression that this writer supported this practice? The writer is Muslim yes?

Aamir Latif, a correspondent for the Islamist website Islam Online who writes frequently on the issue, reported that in 2007 in the Punjab province of Pakistan alone, there were 1,261 honor murders.

IslamOnline.net, Jan. 11, 2007.

[Walks_in_islam]

Final answer to the silly post that started this thread:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp

[Bowas]

Islam does not teach "honor killings" either. No more than christianity teaches sunday school teachers to kill young girls and stuff them in suitcases.

Improbable comparison. The sunday school teacher did not kill in the name of or an interpretaion of Christianity. Honor killings cannot make that claim.
Are there nuts that claim to be Christians? Sure,. The KKK comes to mind, but Christian are VERY vocal against them and their attempt to "hijack" Chritianity. I do wish the average Muslim was as vocal against the radicals within the Muslim faith, so the rest of us might believe they all not really kind of for this extremism.

[Walks_in_islam]

The fact that "average" muslims are physically fighting extremists now today down on the Yemen/Saudi border appears to escape you. The same Yemeni extremists, by the way, that the major who performed those killings in Texas was in contact with. "Average muslims" die at the hands of and die fighting extremists every day. More "average muslims" die at the hands of extremists than europeans do. That you place less value on the lives of the poor and brown (actually completely discounting their lives and sacrifice and applying to it a value of zero) only reflects back on you and your own twisted faith.

[Aquila]

I think it's important not to confuse the teachings of Islam with the cultural customs of more tribal peoples that have embraced Islam. It's like some forms of Christianity in Central America, they will actually re-enact crucifying Christ, complete with piercing the participant's hands. The custom of doing these re-enactments go back to pagan times, not Christianity.

Honor killings and the like are not specifically Islamic, though the Islamic religion is prevalent among the people in question.

[canam]

Final answer to the silly post that started this thread:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp

Snopes isnt the final answer on anything just a husband and wife leftist couple.

[coadie]

Snopes isnt the final answer on anything just a husband and wife leftist couple.

So they get free google like the rest of us?

[Walks_in_islam]

Just goes to show anyone anywhere can email lies around to make them feel or look good. Even preachers.

So they get free google like the rest of us?