Spiritual Warfare and Territorial Spirits

[sis. jill]

Can any of you share your experiences in Spiritual Warfare or dealing with territorial spirits?

[sis. jill]

Please let's not turn this into a contraversial thread.

[tv1a]

You risk being labelled charismatic when you talk about spiritual warfare and territorial spirits. Remember the meat of the Word is a dress code and God is One.

[sis. jill]

Sister. I am very much oneness and very much conservative holiness and I completely believe in spiritual warfare, territoriall spirits and the gifts and operation of the spirit. I know there are others that do too, I was just wondering if they could share their experiences.

[Sherri]

I never really learned much about any of this while we were in UPC, but started researching it after reading Peretti's books back in the early 80's. It opened my eyes to so much that I had never seen before about spiritual warfare. I was amazed that I had never been taught any of this stuff in my life! I definitely believe there are territorial spirits that reign in certain areas (towns; states; countries). I know what some of the prevailing things in our area are, and we fight them all the time. I believe that God can give us an open heaven though, but it takes much prayer!

[Scott Hutchinson]

I think where I live there is a demon of religious tradition running around ,cause most people here are happy their name is on a church role, they 're not really interesting in reading the Bible for themselves.

[Praxeas]

Please let's not turn this into a contraversial thread.
lol....not turn it into a controversial thread? It seems that it started out that way :happydance

[Praxeas]

I never really learned much about any of this while we were in UPC, but started researching it after reading Peretti's books back in the early 80's. It opened my eyes to so much that I had never seen before about spiritual warfare. I was amazed that I had never been taught any of this stuff in my life! I definitely believe there are territorial spirits that reign in certain areas (towns; states; countries). I know what some of the prevailing things in our area are, and we fight them all the time. I believe that God can give us an open heaven though, but it takes much prayer!
I did...I started with Daniel...Then I heard a story about the church Chester Wright pastors that they had a demon possessed man come in and the demon cried out that he was the prince of Anapolis

[Felicity]

I did...I started with Daniel...Then I heard a story about the church Chester Wright pastors that they had a demon possessed man come in and the demon cried out that he was the prince of AnapolisSomething similar happened to my husband. A demon told him his name and said that he was the prince of that particular area. He (the evil spirit) also told my husband that he was going to kill the pastor of that church. My husband told him he was a liar - that he wasn't going to kill anyone. That Jesus had taken the keys of life and death. :thumbsup

It was quite the experience. There were a number of demons cast out of that man and within a year that church experienced a major revival and growth.

Speaking of praying and fasting which has been the topic of a few threads lately ..... my husband had felt led to fast a number of days before this event took place. After, he understood why he had felt impressed to fast.

"This kind" cometh not out except by prayer and fasting", is what Jesus said in regard to some of these situations.

[Trouvere]

Sometimes there is more than one prince.It depends.Have you read Sister Deborah Randalls books on Spiritual warfare? I learned alot from her when they pastored us.

[Felicity]

Sometimes there is more than one prince.It depends.Have you read Sister Deborah Randalls books on Spiritual warfare? I learned alot from her when they pastored us.No sis, I never heard tell of her. I haven't read any books on the topic to be honest. I just know some things from experience.

[sis. jill]

Sometimes there is more than one prince.It depends.Have you read Sister Deborah Randalls books on Spiritual warfare? I learned alot from her when they pastored us.

No, I have not. I will get the book though. Thanks.

[philjones]

Sherri,

It is unfortunate that we do not teach more on this critical topic. As a result of a lack of teaching there is a lack of awareness and our people become comfortable cohabiting with spiritual wickedness. Of course there is a responsibility that accompanies bringing awareness to your church. The responsibility is the proper equipping of the people to defeat these spirits!

I think some of the fear among is caused by a failure to understand that we have been given dominion over these spirits by the cross. All that was stolen in Eden was returned to us at Calvary and the empty tomb! We simply have to begin to walk according to the power that we have been given and take control in the spiritual realm.

For those who may think I am promoting dominion theology, please take a rest. I am a proponent of spiritual dominion not secular dominion. WE are citizens of another Kingdom not this one. One of the reasons I think folks are weak in the area of spiritual dominion is that as a result of pre-trib teaching we have been waiting for the 2nd coming of Christ to conquer our enemy and put him in chains, thus becoming like the man at the pool of Bethesda, impotent!

[Esther]

I will try and share some stories later.

Today is going to be a very busy day at work.

[Malvaro]

Daniel 10:20-21 (Amplified Bible)

20 Then he said, Do you know why I have come to you? And now I will return to fight with the [hostile] prince of Persia; and when I have gone, behold, the [hostile] prince of Greece will come.

21 But I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth or the Book of Truth. There is no one who holds with me and strengthens himself against these [hostile spirit forces] except Michael, your prince [national guardian angel].

the scriptures show us that regional princes can also occasionally "move" out of their territory for greater purposes.... has anyone noticed this either???

[ILG]

I've done a ton of spiritual warfare with territorial spirits. Nothing I read out of a book. Just real life stuff. It is very, very hard work. You can't just pray one prayer of casting out some spirit and have it over. It will suck the life out of you but for the grace of God. It's not about singing warrior songs in church. It's about being at the feet of Jesus and giving up your whole self to God and sticking it out no matter what it takes. Then, at that point you pretty much find out Who is in charge and it isn't you.

[sis. jill]

I've done a ton of spiritual warfare with territorial spirits. Nothing I read out of a book. Just real life stuff. It is very, very hard work. You can't just pray one prayer of casting out some spirit and have it over. It will suck the life out of you but for the grace of God. It's not about singing warrior songs in church. It's about being at the feet of Jesus and giving up your whole self to God and sticking it out no matter what it takes. Then, at that point you pretty much find out Who is in charge and it isn't you.

Great post and great advice. Can you go into a little more detail on the territorial stuff that you experienced.

[ILG]

Great post and great advice. Can you go into a little more detail on the territorial stuff that you experienced.

That's a very loaded question Jill. LOL!

Well, let's just put it this way:

Once upon a time there was a man. He had once owned something, as far as this ownership would go, but, in time, he sold what it was that he owned. When he sold this item, the new owner wanted what was his and the old owner gave him most of it and said he would get the rest in due time. The new owner waited patiently but the rest of what he bought never came to him. The new owner also realized that he had been duped. What was told him about the item he purchased was only partly true and the old owner had stripped and sold much of the item. When the new owner protested to the right people, the old owner, who was well known and liked by the 'right people' said that the new owner was not telling the truth. He said he gave everything over just as the deal said. He also told this to the townspeople who also knew him. Some believed the new owner and some believe the old. Then, the old owner or at least some people that knew the old owner decided that he actually still owned the item. They tried to get the 'right people' and the townspeople to persecute the new owner as a liar. There was great spiritual warfare that took place as accusations flew and ownership was fought for strongly by both sides.

Great spiritual warfare took place. God knew who the real owner was. He opened doors that could have never been possibly opened by any human being. Unless the Lord builds the house, they labor in vain that build it.

[BoredOutOfMyMind]

I have seen this taken to extremes and folk claiming their cars are demon possessed.

[Pressing-On]

Can any of you share your experiences in Spiritual Warfare or dealing with territorial spirits?
Lots could be said. I will say one thing, "God won't put more on you that you can bear and we do need to take that authority."

As Phil said, "spiritual authority" and not the Dominion teaching.

My pastor had me pray with a woman Sunday night. The Lord impressed me to tell her that she needed to take the authority over that depression herself. She's been living for God long enough to know how to do it.

We do need people to pray for us, but we also need to know that we have the authority in the Holy Ghost to bind spirits that come against us.

[Esther]

Sherri,

It is unfortunate that we do not teach more on this critical topic. As a result of a lack of teaching there is a lack of awareness and our people become comfortable cohabiting with spiritual wickedness. Of course there is a responsibility that accompanies bringing awareness to your church. The responsibility is the proper equipping of the people to defeat these spirits!

I think some of the fear among is caused by a failure to understand that we have been given dominion over these spirits by the cross. All that was stolen in Eden was returned to us at Calvary and the empty tomb! We simply have to begin to walk according to the power that we have been given and take control in the spiritual realm.

For those who may think I am promoting dominion theology, please take a rest. I am a proponent of spiritual dominion not secular dominion. WE are citizens of another Kingdom not this one. One of the reasons I think folks are weak in the area of spiritual dominion is that as a result of pre-trib teaching we have been waiting for the 2nd coming of Christ to conquer our enemy and put him in chains, thus becoming like the man at the pool of Bethesda, impotent!

I have never heard this term. What is that teaching?

[Malvaro]

I have never heard this term. What is that teaching?

:D cool topic, but not much material out there on it....

[Ron]

I've done a ton of spiritual warfare with territorial spirits. Nothing I read out of a book. Just real life stuff. It is very, very hard work. You can't just pray one prayer of casting out some spirit and have it over. It will suck the life out of you but for the grace of God. It's not about singing warrior songs in church. It's about being at the feet of Jesus and giving up your whole self to God and sticking it out no matter what it takes. Then, at that point you pretty much find out Who is in charge and it isn't you.

Amen!
Spoken as one who has been there and bought the T-shirt.:tiphat

[Rhoni]

I never really learned much about any of this while we were in UPC, but started researching it after reading Peretti's books back in the early 80's. It opened my eyes to so much that I had never seen before about spiritual warfare. I was amazed that I had never been taught any of this stuff in my life! I definitely believe there are territorial spirits that reign in certain areas (towns; states; countries). I know what some of the prevailing things in our area are, and we fight them all the time. I believe that God can give us an open heaven though, but it takes much prayer!

Like Sis. Sherri, I have read the Frank Perretti books and think he has some background, would have to, in spiritual warfare. Unlike Sis. Sherri, I had grown up with the knowledge and seen demons cast out of people in the early 70's. I also heard a sermon by Bro. Billie Cole about spirits over cities, countries, and communities.

It is obvious that the spirit of homosexuality is prevalent in San Francisco, and mulitplying itself over many US cities.

The spirit of pornography has roots in New York, and the spirit of child molestation and pedophilia in many Ohio and Indiana cities. These spirits can be identified through prayer and awareness of what to look for.

Communities, churches, and individual families struggle with certain types of demons.

My experience with them: I have seen people with the spirit of homosexuality on them, seen those with the spirit of lust on them, seen others with the spirit of pride and arrogance.

When assisting in a UPCI church in the early 80's a young man came to the church door wanting help. He could not enter the church...he grabbed the door facing and tensed up and appeared to fight an inner battle. He could not say the name of Jesus but wanted help. We prayed, cast the demons out of him and peace came on him, he walked through the church door and was able to praise the name of Jesus.

While attending another UPCI church, a demon continually made this woman flail about on the floor and scream hideously. I spoke to this demon and told it that this house belonged to God and he was not welcome here and to shut up. It did.

I have fought off spirits that tried to attach themselves to me..not possess me but oppress me. When I realized what was happening I was able to command it to leave me alone. I dare say many others have had similar experiences, but people don't like to talk about these spiritual things. It has always amazed me that people fear the devil more than they fear God and God has all the power over life, death, and the devil.

Just thougth I'd like to comment on this thread that has gotten lost.

Blessings, Rhoni

[Trouvere]

There is alot of material out there.You just have to know where to look for it.
Sister Deborah Randall has several books at PPH, Brother Blumes Uncle has a book at PPH called Killers In Hiding,the late T.W.Barnes has a book that he wrote on Spiritual Warfare, Brother Jonathan Suber did a series when he pastored in La on it, Brother Verbal Beans books on prayer and the works of the Holy Ghost are a good read.There are numerous other apostolic writers out there with books and materials and teachings on this.Sometimes we miss them as we by pass them when we by pass the books on prayer.Brother Billy
Cole taught on territorial spirits years ago at La Camp.Read some of the missionary books they are very helpful in understanding warfare.

[Malvaro]

There is alot of material out there.You just have to know where to look for it.
Sister Deborah Randall has several books at PPH, Brother Blumes Uncle has a book at PPH called Killers In Hiding,the late T.W.Barnes has a book that he wrote on Spiritual Warfare, Brother Jonathan Suber did a series when he pastored in La on it, Brother Verbal Beans books on prayer and the works of the Holy Ghost are a good read.There are numerous other apostolic writers out there with books and materials and teachings on this.Sometimes we miss them as we by pass them when we by pass the books on prayer.Brother Billy
Cole taught on territorial spirits years ago at La Camp.Read some of the missionary books they are very helpful in understanding warfare.

anyone happen to have a copy of Bro Cole's LA message about spiritual warfare???

[Iron_Bladder]

Can any of you share your experiences in Spiritual Warfare or dealing with territorial spirits?



Hello,

Frankly, I don't beleive that 'territorial spirits' even exist today, yet alone that we ought to pray against them or engage in some Christanese Harry Potter type of 'Charismatic' spell casting against them! Now whilst it's possible that territorial spirits might have existed prior to the incarnation, it's certain that after the cross Christ completely defeated satan and thereby wrecked his powers (Colossians 2:14-15). This verse is emphatic that Satan was bound by Christ himself at the cross, and so we don't need to re-bind him with Harry Potter like charismatic prayers, though I'm not suggesting that Jill is saying that, this is a general response to her question.

Satan doesn't own this world - God does; Psalm 24:1 'The earth is the Lords and the FULLNESS thereof' and so there is nothing that we have to bind or pray against, for Satan being bopund at the cross by Christ himself doesn't own anything and so have no legal right to any nation, country or territory.

Finally, Christians are to grow and mature by submission and surrender to Christ. There is no command in the Bible where mounted upon our nimbus 2000 we are told to then our on utter magical charismatic incantations in tongues which magically bind Satan as if a scene from the latest Harry Potter film. Christ has bound Satan for us at the cross (Colossians 2:14-15) for us and our command is only to personally be obedient to him, to proclaim his law to the lost so that they might be saved.

[pelathais]

Daniel 10:20-21 (Amplified Bible)

20 Then he said, Do you know why I have come to you? And now I will return to fight with the [hostile] prince of Persia; and when I have gone, behold, the [hostile] prince of Greecewill come.

21 But I will tell you what is inscribed in the writing of truth or the Book of Truth. There is no one who holds with me and strengthens himself against these [hostile spirit forces] except Michael, your prince [national guardian angel].

the scriptures show us that regional princes can also occasionally "move" out of their territory for greater purposes.... has anyone noticed this either???

That's a great observation. I think there's a couple of ways to approach this issue. One way, like ILG mentioned (and perhaps is the most important way) is to first approach The Throne of the One Who rules every "territory." The repentance, rebirth and renewal discovered there conquers all foes.

What I think the original question involves is what Malvaro and others discuss. This approach looks at the enemy "in place" on the battlefield and attempts to knock him down where he has control (Mark 3:27).

To frame the abstract nature of spiritual warfare, Christians have traditionally gone to Daniel 10:20-21. This is the approach Peretti and so many others have taken, and in my view is overly simplistic. There really is no strong scriptual support for the naming of "rulers" over various cities and such.

I have heard the names of alleged spirits called out in various assemblies within the same city- and each "revelation" names a different name. It's like tongues and interpretation, in the way it's presented, but there's nothing solid that you can hold onto or use.

It just doesn't seem like there's a map of the enemy's heirarchy that's only waiting on the right spiritually talented prayer warrior to reveal. The whole exercise is too subjective.

I think Rhoni was on to something better when she describes the different manifestations of wickedness (homosexuality in S.F. and etc) as opposed to the idea of there being a particular "evil ruler" over a particular geographic hotspot.

In the traditional "Territorial" model you have "spirits" or "powers" (Greek=archon, or "rulers") over specific geographic territory. As Malvaro points out, these "powers" can expand their holdings, seemingly at the cost of other "powers." Where a strict application of this model breaks down, however, is in the continuing context of the Scripture.

The "archons" that Daniel, Paul and Peter discuss are clearly identified in the book of Enoch - which Paul, Peter and Jude all quote from. These were the "Bene Elohim" or "Sons of God" (not to be confused with angels- angels are a different kind of being in this model). The "Bene Elohim" were 70 in number and were given territory analogous to the Table of Nations described in Genesis 10. According to "Enoch" (the writer of the book, not necessarily the Enoch of Genesis, though Jude seems to identify the two as being the same, Jude 1:14) it was these 70 "Bene Elohim" that "fell" and took human wives in Genesis 6 and not "the angels in general" that Jesus refers to in Matthew 22:30.

These "Bene Elohim", or the "Divine Council" as some scholars refer to them, are noted for their lusts and depraved nature. The only problem in doing spiritual warfare with these beings is that they have already been conquered and are currently chained in "darkness." Unless of course they have already been, or are going to be released for a time. Or if we understand that the "chains" do not isolate these beings from ourselves.

Now FWIW, I personally have some difficulty accepting the whole Territorial Rulers from a literal standpoint. It all makes for a good metaphor, but not even Rosemary's Baby seems capable of destroying lives the way I've seen some "spirits" in the real world do.

But on the battlefront, consider:

"For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment..." 2 Peter 2:4, along with the almost identical statement in Jude 1:6.

Next:

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places." Ephesians 6:12

Assuming that these apostles are speaking of the same "spirits" (whoever, and whatever else they may be) I find it striking that we are battling an enemy that is already "chained." Being “angels” or “spirits” they are not bound to a specific geographic location- not even “hell” but can be multi-present (something far short of omnipresent).

The "chains" are manifested in our eyes as being the spiritual darkness that plagues our world. And so, like malevolent Jacob Marleys, these beings drag their chains around and ensare those who are unaware of their own peril.

So, taking our cue from Mark 3:27 can we then conclude that the "strong man" has been bound (with the chains of darkness) and that Christ is "plundering" the house of the devil even as we speak? Perhaps this is what "spiritual warfare" is all about - Jesus Christ won the war, now we are to "plunder" the enemy and release his prisoners by shining our light into that darkness.

Of course, we should not neglect to also recognize the toll that the “darkness” can take upon a person’s soul, especially the soul of the warrior. Those "chains" represent Hell and Death, and as the prophet said, "Hell hath enlarged herself..." That is, Hell has open its mouth wide and is engorged with the lives of those we love; but it is encouraging to think that we are at war with a defeated and chained enemy. Even in my own weakness, perhaps I have a chance to prevail.

[mizpeh]

Of course, we should not neglect to also recognize the toll that the “darkness” can take upon a person’s soul, especially the soul of the warrior. Those "chains" represent Hell and Death, and as the prophet said, "Hell hath enlarged herself..." That is, Hell has open its mouth wide and is engorged with the lives of those we love; but it is encouraging to think that we are at war with a defeated and chained enemy. Even in my own weakness, perhaps I have a chance to prevail.

I've always envisioned the chains of darkness to be that the fallen angels can never come to the light again. They can never know purity of heart, the fellowship with One who is holy, or any of the fruit of the Spirit. They are forever destined to eternal damnation without hope and without God. Sort of like our enslavement to sin before Jesus Christ came to redeem us and set us free from our bondage.

We do fight a defeated enemy for Christ came to destroy the works of the devil and spoiled them through His cross. He gave us power over all the power of the enemy.

[Digging4Truth]

It is unfortunate that we do not teach more on this critical topic.

Just a question here....

What scripture would one use to teach on this subject?

There is Daniel... who only continued to pray (as we all should) and did not specific warfare against any of these spirits. He didn't even know that there was a spirit fighting his answer until it arrived.

Beyond that... what scriptures would one use to teach on this subject?

[Malvaro]

Hello,

Frankly, I don't beleive that 'territorial spirits' even exist today, yet alone that we ought to pray against them or engage in some Christanese Harry Potter type of 'Charismatic' spell casting against them! Now whilst it's possible that territorial spirits might have existed prior to the incarnation, it's certain that after the cross Christ completely defeated satan and thereby wrecked his powers (Colossians 2:14-15). This verse is emphatic that Satan was bound by Christ himself at the cross, and so we don't need to re-bind him with Harry Potter like charismatic prayers, though I'm not suggesting that Jill is saying that, this is a general response to her question.

Satan doesn't own this world - God does; Psalm 24:1 'The earth is the Lords and the FULLNESS thereof' and so there is nothing that we have to bind or pray against, for Satan being bopund at the cross by Christ himself doesn't own anything and so have no legal right to any nation, country or territory.

Finally, Christians are to grow and mature by submission and surrender to Christ. There is no command in the Bible where mounted upon our nimbus 2000 we are told to then our on utter magical charismatic incantations in tongues which magically bind Satan as if a scene from the latest Harry Potter film. Christ has bound Satan for us at the cross (Colossians 2:14-15) for us and our command is only to personally be obedient to him, to proclaim his law to the lost so that they might be saved.

IB, this post is so wacked out I laughed when I read it. I haven't read such nonsense on AFF like that in a LONG time.... :D

You're comparing the Christian fight with a Harry Potter movie?!?! whatever....

This verse is emphatic that Satan was bound by Christ himself at the cross, and so we don't need to re-bind him with Harry Potter like charismatic prayers

Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

1 Corinthians 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

2 Corinthians 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

1 Thessalonians 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Satan clearly hasn't been bound yet.... nor his influence....

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

although I do agree that the Spirit of God abiding in us is greater than anything that opposes us....

there is nothing that we have to bind or pray against, for Satan being bopund at the cross by Christ himself doesn't own anything and so have no legal right to any nation, country or territory

2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Ephesians 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

1 Timothy 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

I'm sorry, you were saying something about having nothing spiritual to pray about or fight against???

I'm not sure what planet you're from.... but if you haven't experienced any type of spiritual warfare yet, you obviously aren't any threat to Satan or to his purpose....

[Malvaro]

Just a question here....

What scripture would one use to teach on this subject?

There is Daniel... who only continued to pray (as we all should) and did not specific warfare against any of these spirits. He didn't even know that there was a spirit fighting his answer until it arrived.

Beyond that... what scriptures would one use to teach on this subject?

It seems that the scripture's scope regarding Territorial Spirits aka "Territorial" model that Pelathais previously mentioned is limited.... although the generic topic of Spiritual Warfare is much more visible throughout the scriptures....

I agree with PhilJ, this particular topic could use more attention in the Church....

[Felicity]

**bigger level ..... bigger devil**

[Malvaro]

**bigger level ..... bigger devil**

what do you mean?

[Digging4Truth]

It seems that the scripture's scope regarding Territorial Spirits aka "Territorial" model that Pelathais previously mentioned is limited.... although the generic topic of Spiritual Warfare is much more visible throughout the scriptures....

I agree with PhilJ, this particular topic could use more attention in the Church....

The bulk of what Pelathais has to say is fairly pivotal on the Genesis 6 "Sons of God" being angelic type beings. If I remember correctly you do not believe this to be true.

[Malvaro]

The bulk of what Pelathais has to say if fairly pivotal on the Genesis 6 "Sons of God" being angelic type beings. If I remember correctly you do not believe this to be true.

I seem to recall just saying that I personally found the thought of "sons of God" being angelic beings in that passage disturbing.... I've heard both sides of reasoning and without having been there, it's really speculative.... i think, based off the teaching i've heard in the past, leaned towards "sons of God" being humanity.... could be right, could be wrong....

you have a good memory.... :D

[revrandy]

I could understand spiritual warfare.. But I DO not believe that angels war against one another.. God is too great for this..

Michael when disputing with Satan over Moses body didn't rail against him he simply said, "The Lord rebuke you"... and it was done..

There is too much superstition in this for me to believe that Satan is that powerful...

[Felicity]

**bigger level ..... bigger devil**

what do you mean?Meaning (in part) ....

**the higher level we move into spiritually the greater spiritual opposition we will encounter**

[revrandy]

Meaning (in part) ....

**the higher level we move into spiritually the greater spiritual opposition we will encounter**

Is there scripture to support this?

[Amos]

I could understand spiritual warfare.. But I DO not believe that angels war against one another.. God is too great for this..

Michael when disputing with Satan over Moses body didn't rail against him he simply said, "The Lord rebuke you"... and it was done..

There is too much superstition in this for me to believe that Satan is that powerful...

"And there was war in heaven..."

[Amos]

Is there scripture to support this?


"A great door and effectual is opened unto tme, and there are many adversaries."

"We wrestle not against flesh and blood..."

"...I have fought with beasts at Ephesus..."

[Felicity]

Is there scripture to support this?You haven't experienced this?

[Felicity]

Is there scripture to support this?Check out Ephesians.

[Digging4Truth]

Check out Ephesians.

Thats a whole book.....

Could you bring it down to chapter & verse?

[Felicity]

Is there scripture to support this?Jesus in the wilderness.

[Malvaro]

Meaning (in part) ....

**the higher level we move into spiritually the greater spiritual opposition we will encounter**
a few weeks ago, bees/wasps built a nest on a nail outside of my apartment near my outdoor storage....

when i carefully walked around it.... the wasps didnt bother me....

when i got kinda close to the nest.... a few wasps flew around before landing again....

when i whacked it with a broom.... all the wasps flew around and one or two almost "got me"

when i sprayed it with RAID.... all the wasps flew around for 2 or 3 seconds before dropping to the ground....

i think this simple illustration is what Southern Belle was talking about....

the closer to meddling with Satan's business you get, the more he gets stirred up....

[Digging4Truth]

a few weeks ago, bees/wasps built a nest on a nail outside of my apartment near my outdoor storage....

when i carefully walked around it.... the wasps didnt bother me....

when i got kinda close to the nest.... a few wasps flew around before landing again....

when i whacked it with a broom.... all the wasps flew around and one or two almost "got me"

when i sprayed it with RAID.... all the wasps flew around for 2 or 3 seconds before dropping to the ground....

i think this simple illustration is what Southern Belle was talking about....

the closer to meddling with Satan's business you get, the more he gets stirred up....

The other day I used a rope to pull my car out of the mud....

The rope was one rope but it was made up of 3 strands...

With just one of the strands the rope wouldn't have been strong enough...

But with all 3 strands it was able to pull me out...

I think this simple illustration is what the trinitarians are talking about. :)

Illustrations are useful to illustrate whatever anyone desires to illustrate no matter how much truth is or is not present.

This is why scripture was requested.

(Btw... I didn't really get stuck in the mud and need a rope to get my car out.)

[Malvaro]

Illustrations are useful to illustrate whatever anyone desires to illustrate no matter how much truth is or is not present.

This is why scripture was requested.

(Btw... I didn't really get stuck in the mud and need a rope to get my car out.)

very true.... i see your post now....

[Felicity]

I understand you're asking for scripture. I can't offer you a specific scripture at the moment that is a solid proof of what I said earlier. I just know through experience it's true. And I believe that Scripture bears witness to the fact of demonic/devilish attack and oppression when we're involved in spiritual warfare (which is constant and ongoing) and where oppression or bondage is great.

I also added (in part) when I offered earlier explanation of the *bigger level - bigger devil* comment. I don't have time now to go into it further and I find that whenever you start talking about this topic there is some cynicism. Some of us know of what I speak. :)

[Malvaro]

Acts 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:
Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation.

D4T.... maybe Acts 16:16-17 when a demon-possessed person began to heckle them as they were trying to preach in the city....

2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.

Paul experienced a "messenger of Satan".... for some reason i seem to recall a preacher mentioning this could have been Alexander (2 Timothy 4:14).... can't say I've looked into this enough to even speculate....

or when Shadrach, Mishael, Azariah were pointed out and thrown in the furnace for not bowing down to an idol (Daniel 3)

maybe when Daniel was ratted out to the king for praying daily (Daniel 6)

no rock-solid verse or passage that describes "Satan fighting us harder if we are being more spiritual" jumped to my mind.... maybe others can jump in and post better examples....

[Pressing-On]

It is my opinion that we fight warfare at every level. "More than some and fewer than others." When it is your warfare it is, "More than some."

Anytime you are in a position with more authority you naturally are going to feel some pressure from that. I don't think it means you fight any harder in warfare than anyone else. How can that be to a saint fighting for their spiritual life and learning to have "discernment"?

I just believe that by association you are more involved and it can feel more intense, but I would never, IMO, take away from any one person's warfare. It is all intense!

[revrandy]

"And there was war in heaven..."

Amos.. Do you think this was a literal war with bloody and wounded angels?

[Amos]

I understand you're asking for scripture. I can't offer you a specific scripture at the moment that is a solid proof of what I said earlier. I just know through experience it's true. And I believe that Scripture bears witness to the fact of demonic/devilish attack and oppression when we're involved in spiritual warfare (which is constant and ongoing) and where oppression or bondage is great.

I also added (in part) when I offered earlier explanation of the *bigger level - bigger devil* comment. I don't have time now to go into it further and I find that whenever you start talking about this topic there is some cynicism. Some of us know of what I speak. :)

Sister Felicity,

You are right, and some of us do know what you are talking about.

It is probably a fruitless quest to try and convince the skeptics of that which they are unlikely to experience in their current frame of mind.

[Malvaro]

It is my opinion that we fight warfare at every level. "More than some and fewer than others." When it is your warfare it is, "More than some."

perhaps along the lines of, when I was a younger Christian I struggled with certain spiritual battles that as I grew in the Lord, overcame.... which then led to an entirely new set of spiritual battles as I worked in the Kindgom doing different things.... and around different people who fought different things....

also, are you suggesting that if i'm working with youth, I might fight different spiritual battles than if I were working with the young married.... because of the spirits and forces that may hinder or attempt to oppress them???

interesting perspective.... could you describe your thoughts in more detail with us???

[Malvaro]

Amos.. Do you think this was a literal war with bloody and wounded angels?

ummmmm.... angelic beings do not have mortal-body characteristics and thus cannot die....

but does remind me of a movie i saw awhile back.... Fallen with Denzel Washington.... about a scary demon that could possess people by simple touch.... in one scene I recall them referencing some book/Bible verse that suggested that if a demon had no host for a certain amount of time it would cease to exist, die, or something along those lines.... i'm VERY sceptical....

now i'm curious and may go back and see if I can find that part of the movie to get the verse, I'm pretty sure it wasn't a regular book, they referenced.... :D

[Malvaro]

It is probably a fruitless quest to try and convince the skeptics of that which they are unlikely to experience in their current frame of mind.

that may very well be true.... but there are people who are interested by this particular topic and others like it.... and actually have sincere intent....

[revrandy]

I do not critisize I just don't agree with some of the ideas surrounding it..

[LadyRev]

I find that whenever you start talking about this topic there is some cynicism. Some of us know of what I speak. :)

Isn't this the truth!

[Digging4Truth]

Well if requiring scripture for a doctrine such as this one is cynicism or doubting or even just being hard headed then sign me up.

I'm not against it... I'm not fighting against it...

I'm just asking for a scriptural basis

[Pressing-On]

perhaps along the lines of, when I was a younger Christian I struggled with certain spiritual battles that as I grew in the Lord, overcame.... which then led to an entirely new set of spiritual battles as I worked in the Kindgom doing different things.... and around different people who fought different things....

also, are you suggesting that if i'm working with youth, I might fight different spiritual battles than if I were working with the young married.... because of the spirits and forces that may hinder or attempt to oppress them???

interesting perspective.... could you describe your thoughts in more detail with us???
I believe, first of all, that no weapon formed against us shall prosper and when we submit ourselves to God we are able to resist the devil.

Yes, you will fight whatever it is you are working with. If the youth are experiencing lust, you will possibly fight that feeling until you recognize what it is. That is discernment and you will be able to recognize that in a youth. Some are good at hiding what is in their hearts, but God is able to reveal things to us.

You could fight a feeling of depression and then meet someone in that state and be able to help them through it.

We cannot help people when we are unaware of the fight. God brings that fight to us and makes us a channel of deliverance for others.

When I was a new convert I felt a dark presence walking behind me when I would try to pray. I was kneeling at the window in my apartment and was gripping the windowsill. I said, "God, I see the wind in the trees. I know you are real. Why won't you help me!!"

He was helping through the battle. I just didn't realize it at the time or what is was about. A while later I was in a ladies prayer meeting and the leader, a retired minister, laid hands on me and God spoke to me through her - "I will give you strength to throw off the oppressor."

I understand what that feels like to be hampered down by the enemy and wouldn't have known that until I was delivered. Now, I worship and am not intimidated by spirits or man.

When I feel disorder come into the service, I immediately rise up against that in the spirit. I learned to say, "God, tell me what you want me to think, what you want me to know, what you want me to do in this situation."

God knows how to hone our skills to use us in his kingdom. My Lord, the power of God and his church!!!!!! What can compare?!!!

There is healing in His hands! We need to fight with our loins girt about with truth! That is the beginning of winning warfare!

[Malvaro]

great thoughts people.... even though it's not in the Fellowship Hall, let's keep this thread ALIVE!!!!

[Felicity]

I do not critisize I just don't agree with some of the ideas surrounding it..I agree with you. I don't agree with some of the things I hear or with some people's over preoccupation with devils and spirits, demons and things that go bump in the night.

I'm also very aware that every believer faces ongoing devilish opposition. The Bible teaches this very clearly and that we need to use "spiritual" weapons to battle principalities and spirits that are constantly hindering, oppressing and discouraging.

This is a big topic and can go in many different directions.

Couple of points........


There are different scale battles and some are larger than others.


God's calling and purpose isn't the same for every person and so we don't all fight on the same level.


And it's the truth that many Christians live on a very carnal level. They don't walk in the Spirit and are very imperceptive when it comes to spiritual things.

[mizpeh]

It seems that the scripture's scope regarding Territorial Spirits aka "Territorial" model that Pelathais previously mentioned is limited.... although the generic topic of Spiritual Warfare is much more visible throughout the scriptures....

I agree with PhilJ, this particular topic could use more attention in the Church....

Re 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

Satan has IronBladder deceived.

[mizpeh]

Meaning (in part) ....

**the higher level we move into spiritually the greater spiritual opposition we will encounter**

Is there experience to support this?

I suppose if there are archangels and the angels are considered the army of the Lord (Lord of hosts) then it would be logical for the devil to copy God.

Have you read CS Lewis' The Screwtape letters.

[mizpeh]

I understand you're asking for scripture. I can't offer you a specific scripture at the moment that is a solid proof of what I said earlier. I just know through experience it's true. And I believe that Scripture bears witness to the fact of demonic/devilish attack and oppression when we're involved in spiritual warfare (which is constant and ongoing) and where oppression or bondage is great.

I also added (in part) when I offered earlier explanation of the *bigger level - bigger devil* comment. I don't have time now to go into it further and I find that whenever you start talking about this topic there is some cynicism. Some of us know of what I speak. :)

I've never discussed this online so I don't know about the cynicism, but I do know what it is like to be attacked by the enemy, spiritually and physically as well.

[Felicity]

Is there experience to support this?

I suppose if there are archangels and the angels are considered the army of the Lord (Lord of hosts) then it would be logical for the devil to copy God.

Haven't you read CS Lewis' The Screwtape letters.Oh yes! There is definitely experience to support it, but I'm somewhat reluctant to talk about it publicly like this.

As there is hierarchy in the angelic realm so there is in the satanic realm. I don't think the average person is going to have the Prince of Persia (just an example) or some other one of the bigger power brokers in satan's realm expose themselves or come against them unless they're involved in ministry of a particular type or if they've been called by the Lord to intercede in that realm and on that level.

I can say this and I know I'm leaving myself open to ridicule and *rolled eyes* by some who just don't understand what I'm saying here ....... that I have come face to face so to speak with one of the major movers and shakers in Satan's inner cabinet (just a figure of speech) in one of the key and strategic locations of the world.

I know of what I speak I can guarantee you. And there will be a few others here who will understand as well.

Have you ever heard Billy Cole talk about some of his experiences as he's ministered in some areas of the world that are very very hard and very difficult? I know what he's talking about. :)

I know what it is to have imps in my face giving me a hard time (we all do if we're walking in the Spirit at all), but I also know what it is to do battle with key players .... rulers of darkness and principalities and powers.

Eph. 6:12: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

As I've said ....... God doesn't call us all to the same callings. Some of us have been called to and placed in areas of the world and to soul winning on a level that's more demanding and that not everyone has been called to. This demands a consecration and a calling to prayer and intercession that goes deeper than many know anything about.

[Felicity]

I've never discussed this online so I don't know about the cynicism, but I do know what it is like to be attacked by the enemy, spiritually and physically as well.I believe you sis. We have an enemy to be sure and he makes his presence felt - particularly if you're living a consecrated sold out life. Sometimes I hear people wondering "why" things are so difficult, why they struggle with consistent persistent Bible reading and prayer. Why they feel lethargic and tired and worn out with little desire for spiritual things. Part of the reason is that Satan's strategy is to wear the saints down.

It's important to stay cognizant all the time of the fact that we are being opposed, but also to remember that we are more than conquerors, stand on the promises of God and claim the fact that he is under our feet.

The fact is ....... the victory is already ours. It's been given to us but we still have to fight battles. Jesus did. So why wouldn't we? Paul did. Peter did. So will we.

So on one hand we stand on the promises of God knowing that we're ultimately victorious but on the other hand we have to "fight the good fight". We have to cast down imagination, we have to invade territory that the devil has a stake in. We have to do violence to the kingdom of satan.

It's not all a Sunday School picnic although most live an awful lot of the time as if it is. ;) :)

[Felicity]

Sister Felicity,

You are right, and some of us do know what you are talking about.

It is probably a fruitless quest to try and convince the skeptics of that which they are unlikely to experience in their current frame of mind. Thanks bro! I'm not out to convince anyone really but it's a topic I love to talk about to those who can understand. Not everyone is able of course.

God began to move me into intercession after I received the baptism of the Holy Ghost. That came first - even before the gifts of the Spirit began to operate. I didn't know and wasn't really aware of what it was that was happening to me.

I had an insatiable thirst for the presence of God and my prayer life took off after I received the HG baptism. I spent hours and hours on my knees, generally always the last one up off my knees whether in my pew or at an altar. It was the same way at conventions and campmeeting and later in Bible School as well. Saints took note and preachers encouraged me and recognized that the hand of God was on my life in perhaps a little more unusual way than others.

Well .... God calls, and very often he calls those who seem insignificant to themselves and perhaps to others as well. It doesn't matter really. What matters is being that vessel that is useful in the kingdom of God and ohhhhh!! .... how Satan wants that for himself. How desirous he is to rip those those who he knows can do violence to his own kingdom out of the plan and purpose of God ........ and so the battle gets very very hot at times!

[mizpeh]

I believe you sis. We have an enemy to be sure and he makes his presence felt - particularly if you're living a consecrated sold out life. Sometimes I hear people wondering "why" things are so difficult, why they struggle with consistent persistent Bible reading and prayer. Why they feel lethargic and tired and worn out with little desire for spiritual things. Part of the reason is that Satan's strategy is to wear the saints down.

It's important to stay cognizant all the time of the fact that we are being opposed, but also to remember that we are more than conquerors, stand on the promises of God and claim the fact that he is under our feet.

The fact is ....... the victory is already ours. It's been given to us but we still have to fight battles. Jesus did. So why wouldn't we? Paul did. Peter did. So will we.

So on one hand we stand on the promises of God knowing that we're ultimately victorious but on the other hand we have to "fight the good fight". We have to cast down imagination, we have to invade territory that the devil has a stake in. We have to do violence to the kingdom of satan.

It's not all a Sunday School picnic although most live an awful lot of the time as if it is. ;) :)

I agree with all you've said. I'm sure I haven't been attacked on the scale you have been considering the work you have been involved with for the Lord, but I remember one day waking up in bed to a demonic presence I couldn't see who was threatening to destroy me and my family. I couldn't move or speak. I called on Jesus in my mind and that spirit left.

Within three years my marriage was destroyed.

Felicity, I'd like to hear about your battles.

[Felicity]

I agree with all you've said. I'm sure I haven't been attacked on the scale you have been considering the work you have been involved with for the Lord, but I remember one day waking up in bed to a demonic presence I couldn't see who was threatening to destroy me and my family. I couldn't move or speak. I called on Jesus in my mind and that spirit left.

Within three years my marriage was destroyed.

Felicity, I'd like to hear about your battles.Oftentimes the devil attacks people in their sleep. It's very common.

I'm so sorry about your marriage Mizpeh. Life can be so tough sometimes.

[Malvaro]

Oftentimes the devil attacks people in their sleep. It's very common.

I'm so sorry about your marriage Mizpeh. Life can be so tough sometimes.

The one point of your day when your conscience mind is not in control.... and thus unable to present a capable defense....

[BTGAP MOM]

Sometimes there is more than one prince.It depends.Have you read Sister Deborah Randalls books on Spiritual warfare? I learned alot from her when they pastored us.


Just wanted to share that I have all of Sister Randall's books...Treasure's of Darkness was the frist one, if i am not mistaken...

I really enjoyed them and she has ministered in our ladies conferences several times. Sister Randall has ministered to me personally on several occasions as I have a sister that has gotten mixed up with "witchcraft" and new age deception.

Sis. Randall had to learn spiritual warfare first hand...God has truly blessed and kept her.

Spiritual warfare is real, Since coming into this precious truth I have had to grow up very quickly and learn and grow in the Lord as I have had several instances of dealing with such wicked spirits...I thank God for his Holy Ghost that is greater in me than he that is in this world....

I haven'tread this whole thread, I am new to the forum, but just wanted to share that Sister Randall's books are very truthful, and anointed of the Lord.


Her and Brother Randall pastored a church in Abbeyville and dealt with many voo doo/witchcraft deceived people. They would actually come in and set down on the pews and try to put curses on them...and much more.

I believe she is still in Abbeyville, Pastor Randall recently has gone on to his reward....

God Bless you all
Sister Bridges

[Iron_Bladder]

IB, this post is so wacked out I laughed when I read it. I haven't read such nonsense on AFF like that in a LONG time.... :D

You're comparing the Christian fight with a Harry Potter movie?!?! whatever....



Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me.

1 Corinthians 7:5 Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency.

2 Corinthians 2:11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices.

1 Thessalonians 2:18 Wherefore we would have come unto you, even I Paul, once and again; but Satan hindered us.

Revelation 20:2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

Satan clearly hasn't been bound yet.... nor his influence....

1 John 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

although I do agree that the Spirit of God abiding in us is greater than anything that opposes us....



2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

Ephesians 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:

Ephesians 4:27 Neither give place to the devil.

Ephesians 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Ephesians 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

1 Timothy 3:7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

James 4:7 Submit yourselves therefore to God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:

I'm sorry, you were saying something about having nothing spiritual to pray about or fight against???

I'm not sure what planet you're from.... but if you haven't experienced any type of spiritual warfare yet, you obviously aren't any threat to Satan or to his purpose....



Malvaro,

The point which I was attempting to make was three fold. Firstly that a Christian's prayers are to be directed towards God and not towards demons or satan (nowhere in the NT did Paul or the Apostles ever start any meetings with prayers which they believed bound demons). Prayers are to be directed towards God and to him alone. Secondly, Satan was bound at the cross by Jesus; Colossians 2:14-15 is absolutely emphatic about this. With this being so, we can't add or improve upon Christ's work! There is no need for us to bind demons as Christ has already done that for us and beleive me he'll do a far better job than you or I ever will. Thirdly, even if Daniel's reference to the 'prince of persia' refers to a demon based in a certain territory, that OT verse isn't relevant post resurrection in the light of Colossians 1:13-15.

Sadly, I've visited several extreme Charismatic Churches where services often begin with 'binding sessions' were it's claimed that demons are bound by the songs and spiritual gifts of the saints. My post is a reaction to such utter nonsence, that's not to imply that you do such things yourself, but as a former charismatic, I've been there myself and have left suhc foolishness behind! Nowhere in the NT are Christians (other than the apostles) told to bind demons!

[Esther]

Malvaro,

The point which I was attempting to make was three fold. Firstly that a Christian's prayers are to be directed towards God and not towards demons or satan (nowhere in the NT did Paul or the Apostles ever start any meetings with prayers which they believed bound demons). Prayers are to be directed towards God and to him alone. Secondly, Satan was bound at the cross by Jesus; Colossians 2:14-15 is absolutely emphatic about this. With this being so, we can't add or improve upon Christ's work! There is no need for us to bind demons as Christ has already done that for us and beleive me he'll do a far better job than you or I ever will. Thirdly, even if Daniel's reference to the 'prince of persia' refers to a demon based in a certain territory, that OT verse isn't relevant post resurrection in the light of Colossians 1:13-15.

Sadly, I've visited several extreme Charismatic Churches where services often begin with 'binding sessions' were it's claimed that demons are bound by the songs and spiritual gifts of the saints. My post is a reaction to such utter nonsence, that's not to imply that you do such things yourself, but as a former charismatic, I've been there myself and have left suhc foolishness behind! Nowhere in the NT are Christians (other than the apostles) told to bind demons!

Are you saying apostles are the only ones that can bind demons?

[Iron_Bladder]

I'm sorry, you were saying something about having nothing spiritual to pray about or fight against???

I'm not sure what planet you're from.... but if you haven't experienced any type of spiritual warfare yet, you obviously aren't any threat to Satan or to his purpose....






My Reply: But I never said or even hinted at this, the context of my entire post was that the concept of Territorial Spirits i.e. that it isn’t even relevant after the cross for the arguments which I gave and which I won’t repeat again here. I never said that we have nothing to pray against, that’s an entirely different and separate issue which you’ve now introduced and then wrongly accused me of commenting upon.

Secondly at post 61 you said: ‘Satan has IronBladder deceived.’ Please tell me do you regard all Trinitarians such as myself as deceived or just me, and how has Satan deceived me, why not start a new thread and back up your claim with evidence thus proving that your not just gossiping about me or slandering me behind my back by making up falsehoods about me.

[pelathais]

My Reply: But I never said or even hinted at this, the context of my entire post was that the concept of Territorial Spirits i.e. that it isn’t even relevant after the cross for the arguments which I gave and which I won’t repeat again here. I never said that we have nothing to pray against, that’s an entirely different and separate issue which you’ve now introduced and then wrongly accused me of commenting upon.

Secondly at post 61 you said: ‘Satan has IronBladder deceived.’ Please tell me do you regard all Trinitarians such as myself as deceived or just me, and how has Satan deceived me, why not start a new thread and back up your claim with evidence thus proving that your not just gossiping about me or slandering me behind my back by making up falsehoods about me.
IB - if you're even still following this thread... it wasn't Malvaro who said you were "deceived" by Satan - take another look at post 61.

Though I agree somewhat with some of your earlier points, I find it hard to understand how Malvaro, or anyone else could be accused of "gossiping" about you "behind you back" when they have posted on a thread that you yourself had already been posting on. That's not "behind your back," that's "to your face..." at least in the Internet world.

In any case, as we can see by following your instruction to look at post 61 - and the entire thread for that matter, you are simply mistaken. It must have been "one of those people..." You know "their kind..." and how "they are..." Oneness people, they're all the same.

Of all the people on this forum, I find you, the outspoken Trinitarian "confounding persons..." (Athanasian Creed, c.500 AD).

Perhaps you've generalized some phobias and they are manifesting in your anger against Oneness people. Indeed, I for one find no reason to invoke the Dark Lord as the cause of your anxiety; not when there are still bookshelves full of psychotherapy yet to be exhausted.